Struggling With Play Time

[calicosrspecial]

I hope so too. Some treats do have limits. Let's hope the Purebites didn't have a limit. I would guess it would have to be sustained to be a problem but it is best to listen to the limits.

She understands them and trusts them. That is normal to growl at times, just to let them know where the line is. They fit well together.

Interesting. I was thinking that maybe the memory was coming back. I had a stray dog that I am sure fathered some dogs and years after he was neutered he did that as do some of the ferals sometimes even years after. But those guys I am sure fathered kittens as well. Oh well, there goes that theory for Ash.

I know. It is very difficult. Just keep observing and trying to learn. I guess I have been around so many cats for so many years I just have a sense of it when I see it. It is hard to explain though. The key is always have intense it is and then how they act after. And play can go over the line at times then they tell the other one and then they reset. It is complicated. But I guess though it isn't perfect and we can improve it we are not in a bad place either. But we do need to keep building confidence, making positive associations, and trying to make every encounter as positive as possible.

Yes, they do get along well. But yes, it is hard to see them almost get into fights. Some cats are just more insecure generally. Ember may just be and therefore needs that extra work and attention. Yes, Ash is a big part of it. And the way he acts will help Ember. So the fact Ash rebounds quickly is very good. And Ember can't be that afraid of him because she would be more skittish etc around him especially when he gets a bit naughty with her.

Oh, I know. I always feel badly about having to be away as well. But all we can do is our best and you are right, it is very good she has your mom to be with. That stability is very helpful since cats are creatures of habit. Well, hopefully we will build her confidence and security so that when the time comes a stranger has to be with her she can handle it. And the fact you come back is very helpful to her understanding it is only temporary.

That is good that she went high. Hahahaha, Frost. We all have a Frost like that.

Yeah. Yes, some cats do like be the only cat BUT they like their family as well. They can go either way. Some HAVE to be with other cats. Yeah, I think it would be tough to add another one with Ember. It is hard in general but Ember would be especially difficult.

I can imagine!! That is terrific. She really was good!!! Just wonderful!!

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah, I don't like these new treats though. I'm paranoid because they say to wash your hands. But the treats are fairly large and I always give Stella small pieces, so the limit isn't too bad.

They definitely get along better now than they used to! That first year was terrible. I thought I was going to have to rehome Stella and I felt awful for her because her life had already been turned upside down. We took her in because we didn't want her to go through another huge change, especially when she was bonded with me. We never intended on having a small dog again.

It is odd. None of them have ever had kittens and Ember never even went through a heat. Now, her mom did. That was a lot of fun. A cat-aggressive cat in heat. I don't know how she had kittens in the first place. Must have been one determined tom.

I'm definitely going to try to dedicate more time to them this week. However, I am going to be extremely busy at the end of the summer, so I'm not sure how I'm going to manage then. I'm hoping I get their confidence levels up and by then it'll be mostly maintaining them as well as trying to manage their weight. But I want to start some serious behavior training with Stella too. It's hard to keep an eye on them though. A lot of times they're just out of sight. I'd probably have to follow them all day and even then they'd probably be fine until I wasn't paying attention.

Yeah, she definitely doesn't seem really scared of him. They get along fine. My mom said they were all on the couch with her earlier and Ash groomed Ember. They do actually have a very good relationship as far as cats go. But Ember just seems to take everything out on him. I'm glad he's so forgiving though. I couldn't imagine if he decided to hold a grudge or became terrified of her.

I hope she'll be okay when we have to have someone else watch her. I mean, we're going to try to get someone we know. They won't be a complete stranger, but not someone she knows well either. I sure hope she knows I'll always come back to her. I wouldn't leave her. She means far too much to me. I'll admit there was a time I thought it would be best to rehome her, but it's too late for that. Even if I could handle it, I don't think she could. She's stuck with me for as long as she lives.

Frost is definitely my troublemaker. He's the one getting on the counters, eating plants, chewing on plastic, eating any leaves that get dragged in, getting on a little shelf on my wall...

Yeah and it kind of sucks. I mean, I hate thinking about the boys being gone, but it's going to happen some day. Then Ember will be the only one left and I've never had just one cat before. But I think she'll be too old to even think of introducing another cat at that point. She's gotten better though. I mean, she comes out when a friend of the family brings his dog over and she's just a puppy. She doesn't know not to bother the cats.

She was. I want to try to get her to do it again. It would be great if I could get her to do agility! Help her lose weight too.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I wonder why it says to wash hands. Yeah, it makes me wonder as well. Maybe send them an email and ask about it?

Yes, the first months etc can be difficult. It is hard, it so depends on the personalities of the animals. And then the introduction process. It is complicated. But you did many things right to be in the situation you are in now. I am so glad it worked especially for Stella. I have had dogs that have had many homes and issues. It is hard. But worth the efforts. Really good job with them!!

Hahahaha. Yes, they can be persistent.

Just do your best. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. And try not to stress about it. Just work with them when you can and try to let them have their moments too. Right now mine are all sleeping and lounging. It happens that the times you can do something they want to relax etc then the time they want to do something you get busy. It happens to me all the time. Don't worry, you have done a great job and you will continue to. I am very confident you will continue to make progress. Just do your best and don't worry.

WOW!!!!! THAT is GREAT!!! He groomed Ember?!?!?!?! WOW!!!! Fantastic!!! I have the biggest smile right now. I LOVE to hear that. Sometimes cats take things out on cats because they know they can get away with it. And I think there is some Mom cat that might be going on. And some "good offense is a good defense" but maybe less than I originally thought. It is complex and tricky what really is going on but the fact they get along and they sit together on the couch and he grooms her tells me all is well. Wow, I am still loving the fact he groomed her.

When you do get to a point where a stranger has to watch them just transition with you there. Have the person use food. Makes sure they know cats. Things like that. The person is a huge part of helping the cat feel comfortable. Cats can sense our "vibe" so the more relaxed we are and calm and confident the more the cat will feel that way. And knowing how to interact with a cat. I deal with unknown cats all the time and how they behave really is a reflection of how I am with them. It is hard to explain but the person will be very important.

Don't worry, Ember will ALWAYS remember you. That bond will always be there. She knows you love her. I have had ferals leave and come back a year later and they remembered me. They know, it is hard to explain but I know they know and they know love.

That is interesting. I think of Frost as being so good and calm. I have a naughty one as well. Going everywhere she shouldn't......................

That is great Ember comes out when a friend and their dog comes over. That is a big positive. You never know, sometimes when they get older it is easier. I guess we'll cross that bridge when it happens hopefully many, many years from now.

That would be great. It sounds like she probably will. Keep up the great work!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

Maybe I will. It's really kind of bothering me. I don't like using them because I don't want to touch anything and I usually give extra attention for doing good at a trick or after a training session. Not to mention now that I'm doing agility, I have to be ability to adjust the height of the bar.

It was definitely difficult and we didn't really do it the way we were supposed to, but I think the way we did it worked in the end. Probably should have shut Stella up and just let the cats be free without her around, but Stella was always right at my heels. I don't think she would have liked be locked away. At least it wasn't too much of a problem keeping her away from the cats. I couldn't imagine doing that process with a puppy or a dog that doesn't know basic commands. And the fact that she was always right next to me meant I didn't even usually need those commands.

Yeah, Ember is pretty much always wanting attention every time I get up. But then, she wants attention when I'm sitting a lot too. She hasn't been too bad lately though, especially for me to have been gone a little while. And there haven't been any fights lately. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it. I am trying to play with her more often though. She doesn't play for very long periods of time. I'm lucky to get a few minutes out of her. But if I try when she was asleep and just got up, she won't play. She is getting two training sessions though. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. She does get a little exercise, but she also gets treats.

It is nice to see(or even at least know it happens). It's not something that never happens, but it doesn't happen often and especially not recently. They seem to be getting along now though. Let's hope it lasts at least a while. Maybe if I keep up on play and training they'll get the exercise and mental stimulation they need while maintaining that relationship.

I will try to remember that. I wish I had the perfect person to come and take care of them. We'd probably be better off with a professional, but at the same time that's only if we actually get a professional. I've heard of pet sitters who aren't all that great. We were thinking of asking my aunt. She's had cats and dogs, so she knows how to take care of them. She was also a groomer so that wouldn't be an issue though she didn't work with cats. But she doesn't play with her animals and I'm afraid she'll think all the work I put into taking care of them in ridiculous and unnecessary. I considered asking my friend as well, but she's often taking care of her sisters and she's also getting a puppy, so she doesn't really need the extra work. I also worry she'll forget to do something or go over at all because she can be a bit scatterbrained. But I do know she'd do what I told her to(and what not to do) and would put the time into playing with them. The problem with both of them is that Ember has never come out for them. I think my aunt is a bit intimidating to animals and my friend has too much energy.

Well I certainly hope so. She's my baby girl even though she isn't the youngest. (Ember was giving me this really wide-eyed stare right around here. It was kind of intimidating. Lol) I do think people underestimate cats and their ability to remember as well as to love.

Hopefully very many years from now. I have to say, sometimes I do worry about the boys. What with Ash getting arthritis so young, I'm afraid he'll just keep getting worse until he can't have a good quality of life anymore. And Frost eating the things he shouldn't... But I try not to linger on those things and just do what I can.

She got a little lazy on going over the bar today. I think I did training sessions too close together. I need to make sure they're separated so she doesn't get bored.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I wouldn't worry too much but it is best to ask and be careful. I can't think of what it could be. Unless they are extra cautious since the standards in animal food plants are not as a high of standard as human. Yes, it is hard when you are using them and are doing other things. You definitely do not want to be touching stuff with it on your hands.

I think it worked really well in the end. It really is more art than science and it just depends on the animals. We try to have basics and general principles but there is always adjustment etc to those. You should be very proud of how you got them together.

Many cats love attention ESPECIALLY from loved ones. For how long can be different but they love their love as I like to say. Ember is like one of mine. Pretty much loves love as much as possible. Even a little play is good. Yes, they don't always like it after sleeping. They are waking up. Two is good. As long as you do what you think is best and she enjoys it is helpful.

I think it is wonderful and a great sign. Happening once is a great sign. Yes, just keep doing what you are doing. Confidence, positive associations, etc. I think their relationship will grow. You may be very surprised how close they will get. If it doesn't that is fine but I am thinking they could get closer. That would be cool. But it will be on their terms, we can facilitate it but they will decide. It is in their paws.

Yes, "professional" are not always professional. I think it is all about attitude and desire. Wanting to do what is best for the people and the animals. It sounds like you have 2 good ideas. Before hand you'll want to do some sessions to get them to come out for them and make a positive association. A cat can sense emotions so if someone means well the cat will pick up on it. The key is not act normal, calm and confident like everything is fine. And then that emotion feeds on itself. Hard to explain but I think you know what I mean.

I am very confident she always will. That love you two have is special. Hahahaha, I know what you mean. It is that look. I think people do too. Cats are excellent at remembering things and the ability to love is off the charts. They don't always show it but at times it is so obvious. And I think they really show it when they are feeling love as well. The way they look, purr, melt into a person, etc. It really is something special. But I think a person has to be open and be in the right mindset to see and feel it. It is very special.

Yes, I hope so too. I know, welcome to parenthood. It is hard not to worry. We always worry about our loved ones. But all we can do is do our best. Life isn't always fair and there are no guarantees so we have to do our best and cherish every moment we have. It is the quality of time spent not only the time spent.

Yep, that can happen. They are cats and laziness happens often. Hahahahaha. I am sure she'll do well next time or the time after.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I was wondering if perhaps it was raw instead of cooked, but I can't find a whole lot of information on them. I haven't emailed them at this point, but I still might get around to it. They're fine treats and the animals love them, but it just makes me a bit nervous.

It always makes me happy when I see the proof that they get along. Ember has definitely come a long way. Ash is still improving, but he's much better than he used to be. He still occasionally headbutts her and then slaps her like she did something, but that's happening less often. Usually when he headbutts her, he kind of acts like he just realized what he did and backs off.

Oh, yes. I don't think Ember would ever turn down attention. Well, at least not unless she's very nervous/scared. Those are the only times she won't accept attention. I'm going to try to make sure she gets a couple of training sessions a day(once just her and Stella since they're doing something different and once with all four since Frost and Ash won't do the agility stuff) as well as several play sessions. I'm thinking I'm going to aim for at least three play sessions a day since she only plays for a few minutes at a time.

Well, I don't mind if they don't get closer. As long as they don't get further apart. I think they have a good relationship outside of those incidents. It would be great if they did get closer of course, but I'm happy as long as we can keep fights to a minimum.

I think my friend would be much more willing to do sessions beforehand than my aunt. I don't believe either of them would do anything to harm my animals, but my aunt can be a bit short-tempered. We considered asking my cousin too, but I honestly don't talk to her much. I know she has animals, but have no clue how well she cares for them. But I still have time. We had been hoping to go on a trip this summer, but that's not going to happen. We're aiming for next summer now.

Yeah, cats tend to be a little more subtle. At least most of them. It can be easy to miss those signs, but I've learned to look for them. Especially in the boys. They don't always seem to care one way or another. And honestly, I still believe they'd be happy with anyone who took care of them and gave them attention. It doesn't mean they don't love me since I'm the one who ended up with them and am the one who cares for them, but they aren't too picky either. And Frost at least does come to me for snuggles more often than he does anyone else. It's more obvious with Ember and I'm really grateful I have that relationship with her.

And I'll do my best to make sure Ash has a good quality of life for as long as he can. I want him to be happy. I just hate to see the day he can't jump up on the cat trees anymore. He loves being on them. I am trying to be careful to keep things picked up with Frost though. Hopefully he'll be able to have a long life.

Ember did good today. She needed a bit of encouragement after the first few times of going over, but there were a couple of times she did really well. I didn't have to guide her over the bar. She's catching on albeit a bit slower than the dog. But Stella seems to have met her match in training too and I'm a bit surprised.

 

[calicosrspecial]

It could be. I can understand why it makes you nervous. There is some reason. I wish they would put it on the package.

Yes, it is wonderful when they show they can get along when there is a question. It sounds like Ember has come a long way. Headbutting is a real positive. I have seen that (a cat paws after headbutting). I wonder if the response to the headbutt ( a way to say I like you) isn't reciprocated enough. Then they get insulted or something. Maybe he wants Ember to rub on him or groom him?

That sounds like a good plan.

So true. We never really know how it will go and cats can drift apart and then back together etc. But as long as they are happy and acting normal and getting a long it is wonderful.

That sounds like you have at least one person you trust. That is good. It is hard. But if you can trust the person and you know they care and will do what you want then it helps ease the worry. The worry will still be there but it makes it a little easier.

So true. Very subtle at times. The more secure the cat the more willing they are or accepting maybe is the better word. And the love is there even when they don't always show it. Like humans, some show by actions, some words, some it is just unwritten but known. It depends on the personality. Ember is definitely more "showing" but I guarantee they all love you a lot.

That is the main thing. They are in good hands and have a great life. I don't think we could ask for anything more. It is wonderful. And as they age there are always steps and ways to help them (especially Ash) go high etc.

That is great!! I bet that is so cute.

 

[Animal Freak]

Wouldn't it be great if they put it on the package? But that would just be too easy.

I do think it has to do with the tension a lot. Sometimes Ember slaps him when he headbutts her. That's usually around dinnertime and I think she gets a bit tense then. And Ash headbutts the dog and then slaps her sometimes. I can always tell the dog is nervous, sometimes even jerking away from him. Ember had the worst reaction to Stella, but Ash took the longest to accept her, so he still makes her a bit nervous.

The boys have proven that. They used to be so close when they were younger. They were more cat-cats than people-cats. Not to say they weren't affectionate towards people though, but they did seem to prefer each other's company. Now they don't interact much at all. Sometimes they play and occasionally they'll curl up together and maybe groom each other, but it doesn't happen nearly as often. It's all right though. A little sad, but also kind of great since they became more affectionate towards me.

Yeah, my friend means well and she's one of the only people who comes even close to me when it comes to loving and respecting animals. I know she'd be great to take care of Stella and she'd take me seriously when it comes to what should and shouldn't be done. I think she's just a little much when it comes to the cats because she can be kind of energetic and she likes to hold them which they don't care for.

I think that subtleness is part of why some people just can't have cats. It really does require a certain kind of person to take care of a cat and takes an even more specific kind of person to really understand them. They definitely aren't like dogs when it comes to showing their emotions. And even when they do show they're love, it can be brushed off as something they benefit from. They come for attention because they like to be petted, they rub on you because they want your attention, and things like that, but, while I do believe that's in part true, I think those behaviors are clear signs of affection as well.

I'm probably going to have to look into those ways of helping Ash get up high at some point. He loves being up there so much I'm not sure he'd be happy if he couldn't. It might seem like a small thing to someone else, but I see how much time he spends up there. Though he has been sleeping in the dog's crate a lot lately.

It is really cute and I'm not even sure why. Ember is just stepping over a bar. It's nothing huge. But I'm still so happy she decided to do it.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hahahahaha, yep. :/

Yes, I think so. If a cat is on edge and then someone gets in their space it can be like "whoa, knock it off". I have seen it many times. But headbutting is a sign of affection (even though it is not always taken that way). It is Ash's way of saying "you are my friend". Yes, history definitely has an impact so it makes sense Stella is a bit cautious.

I have a brother and sister that were very close and drifted apart. When I added another cat she took the place they had with each other. It just happens. I know, it is kind of sad but as long as they are happy.

Well, you just have to explain to her that she needs to give them some space and let them approach her. She sounds like she would respect that. She sounds like a very good option when the time comes. It sounds like you respect and trust her which is really important.

I agree. People think if they don't show love then they don't love the person and some people can then not care for the cat as much. I have seen it too many times. I think a person has to want to give rather than expect to receive. In other words, do what is best for them rather than looking for something for the person. If that makes sense. And of course, when I do that then I find I get much more than I ever give. Rubbing is getting their scent on you to say "I own you". It is a sign of affection. I think a lot of that is less selfish than most people think. Sometimes cats can seem selfish when they come to eat then go off to sleep but that is what they do. Hunt, Capture, Kill, Eat, Groom, Sleep. Love fits in at the ends typically. Once people understand that then they understand more and are open to be loved more in my opinion. They are definitely not like dogs but I will say, I have had and have a cat now that are/is so doglike it is crazy. It is pretty funny actually.

Yes, it works really well and it helps the cat so much. Let's hope it is a while before it is needed. It is funny, one of my cats is sleepy in the dog bed all the time lately. Hmmmmmm, I wonder what it is.

Hahahaha. I can imagine how cute it is. The way they move can be really cute. Especially when it is something like that. I think it is wonderful. It is cute she knows how to go over and wants to. Pretty cool.

 

[Animal Freak]

It's kind of ridiculous watching Ash get too close to Stella and then slap her like she did something though. I understand why because she does get very tense, but it's an odd scene to watch. I don't think it helps her trust him either, but she's slowly getting better.

Yeah, I would say Ember is actually closer to both of the boys than they are to each other, even if there are issues between her and them. The boys don't really interact with each other anymore, but sometimes they play with her. They do play together too, so it's not like they never interact.

Yes, I do think she would. She's one of the only people who might actually be able to understand how I feel about them. There aren't very many people who take my love of animals very seriously. I just hate to ask her to put all that time into taking care of my animals when she has enough. She's getting a really high energy dog too.

Of course, it makes total sense. You have to be willing to give if you ever expect to receive. I think that applies to many things. You give respect to get respect and it's the same with love, of humans and animals. It's not a one-sided relationship, especially not with cats. Well, Ash might have a one-sided relationship with my dad. He loves my dad(who's a dog person) and then turns around and bites him. But my dad respects Ash and, even if Ash doesn't act like it, I believe he respects my dad too. Cats are often selfish creatures, but I think humans are often much worse. Cats aren't as selfish as many people want to believe. They just refuse to change themselves for anyone else and that honestly might be one of my favorite things about them. We could learn a lot from them.

Well, maybe some cats don't really fit in the description. Lol. A dog-like cat would be pretty funny. But it was a generalization. Of course there will always be cats who defy the expectations.

Cats. They want what isn't theirs. Frost and Ash started sleeping in the dog bed, so we got them a cat bed. Well, the dog prefers the cat bed and the cats still prefer the dog bed. They're odd creatures, cats and dogs. And cats love boxes, right? Only until you make it for them. My mom cut a hole in a box and made it for them. They rarely ever use it.

Yeah, Ember can be pretty stubborn though. If she doesn't feel like doing it, she'll sit pretty instead. And she likes to rub against the bar. She scared Stella today because she knocked it down.

 

[calicosrspecial]

They do that though. It is fairly common. I am not sure if they do it to get a reaction, to play, etc. I think it is that rather than fear or to be mean etc. But it happens all the time.

That is interesting. That happens often for some reason. Things do ebb and flow. At least they do play together.

That is really good. Well, you can always ask her when the right time comes and tell her you understand if she thinks she can't do it. Communication is really important so you both know where each other stand rather than assuming. And honesty is best. So if she honestly thinks she can handle it then great or if she honestly thinks she can't then that is good. Knowing the truth is best. I am guessing things will work out with her. It sounds like she is a really good person. Which is great. So as long as she is honest and let's you know either way then that will be helpful.

I think you are exactly right. On every point you make. I think we can learn so much from them.

True. I do have a dog like cat. It is pretty funny. So dog like. I think he sometimes forgets he is a cat. Hahahahaha. Yes, the generalization is pretty much accurate though. But there are rare exceptions as I can attest to. Hahahahaha

Yes!! Always what isn't theirs. And of course, if you make them something for them of course they ignore it!!! That is what cats do!!! Hahahahahaha Actlike you don't want them there and they will use it. Too silly.

Awwwwwwww. Sitting pretty. Mine does that too. Hard not to accept it because it is so cute too. Of course, they have to rub and if they knock it down even better I think they think. Hahahahaha. I wonder how that gene has stayed with them from generation to generation across cat DNA. SO FUNNY!!! You describe one of mine.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I don't think he's trying to be mean, but I don't think it's playful either. I think it's just a reaction to her tension. Like when Ash becomes fearful of Ember and so she attacks him even more. Fortunately his reaction to Stella's fear/nervousness isn't as severe.

Yeah, of course I said the boys don't interact much and yesterday Frost was laying on my lap and Ash came over. He laid over my side and they groomed each other a bit. And Stella was up against my legs. It got very warm very quickly.

Maybe I'll just ask if she can come play with them whenever she can and my aunt can feed them. That way neither one of them will have to do everything for them, but just a little. And it won't seem like as much work. They can be a lot of work and I know they're probably not going to get everything they get from me, but I'll just have to make sure they're in the best situation they can be before leaving.

Lol. I can't say I've ever had an animal that really acted like a different species(other than the rats who really were just like little cats, but I think that's just a rat thing in general), but I bet it's pretty funny. There will always be exceptions to what is considered normal.

Yep. What isn't theirs must be better than what they have. Including the other cats' food which is the exact same thing. And our beds are better than their beds. A random, empty box is better than a box made for them. I think the only thing the cats really like that's theirs would be the cat trees.

Yeah, it's a cute trick though Ember likes to try to be a bit lazy on it sometimes. The less work, the better. And they do love to rub. It's worse when one of the other cats comes along to rub on it though. Then they're in the way and messing the bar up. And they refuse to go over.

Oh, yeah. I wanted to say that all the cats are getting along great. Still a little hissing from Frost which I've never been able to figure out, but absolutely no fighting. Not even almost fighting. I don't know if it's coincidence or if the training sessions helped create positive experiences or if Ember just needed the extra mental stimulation, but they've been doing wonderful.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That makes sense. It is good it is not too bad.

AWESOME!!!! (Other than getting too warm). Isn't that special when you see that???? Terrific.

That is a good idea. It makes it a little easier for them. Of course it is not the same as the parent being there but it helps smooth the transition which is great. Making it less disruptive, less "different". That is helpful.

It really is. And he loves dogs. It is really funny.

Yes, so true!!! Of course some humans are like that as well................ "The grass is always greener.....". They really are something.

A cat wouldn't be a cat without getting lazy at times. And of course having to rub. Hahahahaha, I can actually picture it. I can imagine how cute it is (both ways).

That is great. I think the training definitely helps as does the positive building on positives which then helps reduce any stress which leads to more positives. A "positive positive feedback loop". Positives build on positives making it more positive. Terrific. There are always ups and downs as any relationship has but the key is to rebound quickly understanding that it is only a disagreement and the love and respect is still there.

Keep up the great work!! WELL DONE!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

It was quite wonderful having them all by me, even if it was a bit warm. All four of us crowded in one corner of our rather large couch. Lol. Frost didn't stick around too long though.

Yeah, I'd definitely like to keep as much of their routine intact as possible. I'm not sure how well that'll go over, but I guess they'll manage one way or another. I don't tend on leaving them for long. Maybe a week. I don't know how well Stella will do. She has a bit of separation anxiety and has refused to eat before when we were separated.

That is funny. My dog loves cats, though I wouldn't say she acts like one. She's much pickier on the dogs she hangs out with than she is with cats or people.

Oh, yes. Humans are definitely guilty of that behavior too. I think it stands out more in cats. They don't really care to hide their preference of what isn't theirs.

It's a good thing they are cute, because they're brats too. It can be difficult with these treats though. I'm avoiding touching anything and then the boys get in the way and Ember won't go over unless she knows there's a clear spot for her. It's really hard moving cats without your hands!

Yeah, they've really been doing well. I honestly can't remember when we've gone so long without any incidents... It's been a while. Even if they're small, there's usually some problem. But they've even been doing well during mealtime. Ash always wants to rub on everything/everyone while I'm preparing their dinner and he usually ends up headbutting Ember, but she's usually a bit tense in that time and, even if she doesn't outright attack, she often slaps him. But lately she hasn't done that. She still gets a little tense, but she just kind of looks at him weird.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Those moments really are special. Frost probably got too warm!! Hahahaha, at least he was there for a little bit.

I think maintaining a routine is really important. They may not do everything but at least it helps a little. They do manage and the good news is you come back. So the more you are gone the more trusting they will be that you will return. Separation anxiety is tricky but a week isn't too long. But it is tricky. Having someone they like is very helpful so transitioning is important.

That is funny. Stella. Sometimes dogs are a bit picky with other dogs. Too funny.

So true!!!

I agree. They can be in so much trouble or cause trouble but they are so cute it is hard to get upset. It is always like that, when you can't move them etc is the time they are in the way the most. Never fails. I have no idea how they know................

That is great!!! Wow, Ash wants to own everything even Ember!!! They seem to really be bonding (even though Ember looks at him funny at times). She is probably like "yeah, I know you love me but I am hungry, let's just eat!!". I am so glad to hear that thee are doing well. You have done a great job.

 

[Animal Freak]

They are definitely special. And I couldn't blame Frost since I was a bit warm as well...

Yeah. I don't think anyone would want to do as much as I do. Since I'm trying to maintain their relationships as well as getting Ember to lose weight on top of Stella's training, a fair amount of effort goes into taking care of them. But they should be fine for a week. Ember is neither gaining nor losing weight and there usually aren't any fights if one of us is gone, so I don't see why they'd fight if both of us are.

Yeah, well, she wasn't really socialized properly. She lived in a house with five older dogs only one of whom was significantly bigger than her(still small though) and two cats. The kitten was the only one who'd play with her, so she grew more attached to cats. She came into contact with bigger dogs three, maybe four times. They scare her and I'd like to have a big dog someday.

Oh, yes. They always seem to know when it's the most inconvenient time and that's when they want to be in the way. And they think they should all get food even for doing nothing.

Lol. Ash rubs and headbutts everything and everyone. Ember did not always take to it so well and I'm surprised he continues to do it after being slapped and hissed at so many times for it. But I'm definitely happy they're all getting along.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Very true.

Yes, it is never the same but as long as they are well taken care of when you are gone (food, water, cleaned litter) then they will get through it. It is hard to know how they will react until it happens but I would guess they would be pretty well behaved. It is just so hard to predict but the vast majority of cats do well even when the parents are gone.

Poor thing. But it is cool that she befriended a kitten. At least she is in a good home now getting the attention needed. I think you'll be able to get a big dog at some point and get Stella to accept that dog. I have had a lot of rescues and it is amazing what love and confidence can do to help a dog.

EXACTLY!!!

My boy does as well. It is cute. Yes, some cats don't like it. My dogs (big dogs) didn't mind. The cats don't either (they will do it back to him). It does sound like Ember is accepting it more which is great. She knows he doesn't mean harm. It is awesome they are getting along. Nothing better.

 

[Animal Freak]

I think Ash and Frost will definitely be fine. They might be more comfortable with me, but they like anyone who feeds and pets them. I worry more about Ember and Stella. Ember I think will manage. She at least won't stop eating, even if she does stop playing. So there is a concern of her gaining weight.

I do hope she lets me, but she's really not that confident at all. Actually, she's quite a coward. Stella is scared of the water bowl. She stands as far as she can get while getting a drink and jumps if it makes a noise. And she has a history of attacking dogs in what she considers her territory.

Yeah, I hope they keep getting better. It would be great if she'd stop attacking him when he gets a bath, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'll probably just avoid bathing them.

So my dad recently got a new house and is now getting the old house ready to sell. Well, he found out a cat had her kittens under some planks of wood leaning against the back of the garage. There's two kittens. I went yesterday and was thinking maybe I could convince him to catch the kittens and take them to a shelter and, if I could figure out how to do it for free, possibly TNR mom. That neighborhood is full of ferals. I've seen at least three who were calm enough to be out in plain view, but wouldn't let anyone near them. I'm sure there are more who don't let themselves be seen. But this cat is not one of them. The kittens were out when we got there and unafraid. Mom was under a tree when I first approached and she let me get within a few feet of her. She only left when my dad made some noise and she jumped the fence into the neighbor's yard. The kittens went into hiding shortly after that, but came out a little while she was gone. When we were getting ready to leave, mom came back and the kittens came out. I was, once again, able to get within a few feet or so. She laid there and watched me before getting up, hissing, and walking away, leaving her kittens undefended. I didn't mean to chase her off again, but she hadn't been showing any signs of fear or tension whatsoever. One kitten went into hiding, the other didn't seem to even notice me until I took another step forward and then that one went into hiding.

All three of them are black with white markings. I'm guessing the kittens are 7-8 weeks old, but I'm not positive. They're stable on their feet, playful, and exploring. I went mostly off of their eye color though since it's sort of a muddy color like they aren't done transitioning, but definitely aren't blue anymore. Mom is so small that when I first saw her, I though she was a kitten, albeit an older kitten. I don't know if she's young or just small. I'm trying to find a place that will take them. My dad is willing to help catch and transport them, but has left it up to me to figure everything out. I called a shelter that I know of, but they aren't licensed to take strays. The other places I've looked at want you to go through a whole long process of trying to find the owners, but my dad can't keep these cats for any period of time since my step mom is allergic and he can't afford to pay for anything since they currently have two houses. So I'm trying to find a place to take them right now which is proving harder than I expected.

Overall, I think they'd be pretty easy to catch, especially the kittens. If I wanted to, I could probably sit out there for a while and just grab them when they come out. But I don't have a trap and can't afford a trap. I was thinking about trying to lure them into Stella's kennel(which I don't currently have), but I'm not sure they'd go in with it smelling like dog. And they'll probably be out there for at least another week now because I'm leaving today and I don't think my dad will do anything without me. He's kind of just going along with it because I want to do it.

And he also found a dog today. He brought it into the house to cool off, but I don't know much of how he found it or where it was. I'm hoping it didn't chase them off and, if the dog didn't, then the smell of the dog.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Well, that sounds pretty good. Sounds like you think the cats will do well which is great. Dogs usually do well so let's hope Stella does well like most dogs. I always think cats struggle the most but there are always exceptions.

I hope so too. I think she will get more and more confident. The more safe moments she has the more she will "settle" in. Hopefully other dogs can come around and you can get her adjusted before a new dog moves in. Dogs are usually easier to adjust and they sometimes surprise. I have had a lot of dogs and have taken care of some in the house. And sometimes they show some territorial behavior but they adjust pretty quickly. Let's hope Stella does as well.

I think they will. Yes, baths and vet visits can be a challenge because the scent is gone (or changed or added). But they do adjust. I just had my guy in the vet and no issues. Whew. But mine have ferals outside of the windows etc so they are use to different smells. The more secure and confident Ember gets the easier she will accept.

Oh wow. Yes, at some point TNRing mom is a great idea. How old do you think the kittens are? I am guessing they are 3-4 months but it really depends on what weather you have had etc. On the kittens, you have to make sure it is a true no kill shelter. Kittens are easy to adopt usually BUT there are so many of them. So it is always a worry. It gets tricky because the kittens need mom for protection and food so TNRing mom is a timing thing. The kittens need to be able to not have mom around. I would contact Alley Cat Allies and see if there is someone in your area that does TNR etc. They can assess the situation and help start solving the issues. What I do is start to feed and water and start working with them. And then I get to a point where I trap them all and at the right time spay and neuter, help them recover and then if I can't find a home (which is usually everytime) I release them back to the same place. But I have the time and can do that, most normal people can't. That is why getting someone from the Alley Cat Allies list in your area is very helpful. Just give them a little space, if you can feed and give clean water that would be helpful if you are near. Don't try to touch them at all for now. It is tricky because there is a fine line in my mind. I always worry if I get them too friendly with people it can put them at risk (if I know they will be remaining outside). Ferals do best in my mind when they are not seen so people can't hurt them. We can talk more about this also as time goes by and figure out what is best. But I would see about contacting someone from Alley Cat Allies (they have a list of volunteers in areas of the country) and since they are experts and can be on the scene they can do what is best. I just wish we could find every feral a home. I have 4 ferals in my house and they are wonderful cats. I take care of a colony and if I could take them all in I would in a second. They too would make great house cats.

Oh, I just got to the next paragraph. Hahahaha, you answered a lot of my questions. They sound adorable. I am guessing if there are a lot of ferals she probably is young and had the kittens. It does sound like she is a good mom which is great. That is great that your dad is willing to help, that is very kind. I would contact Alley Cat Allies and see if there is someone in your area that can help. It is very hard to find a shelter etc to help out. Also, see if your Humane Society has a TNR program. The most important thing is to get them (at the right time) spayed and neutered and get them their shots. A lot of rescues and Human Societies will do that for free or reduced cost. Many will work with you since they know that is the best thing to do (other than finding them a home). Then release them in the same area.

Kittens tend to be pretty easy to catch but it does take time. Moms can be harder but an expert can do it. Sometimes an expert has to come out a few nights in a row to trap but usually with stinky food a hungry feral will take the chance if the trap is set up right etc. I really would like you to contact Alley Cat Allies and get an expert because I don't want you to get hurt. The kittens are probably too young to be spayed/neutered so there is a timing issue. That is why someone with time and expertise would be great. If you can't find someone then we have to come up with a plan B.

Wow. Dogs usually are microchiped etc. So finding the dogs owner should be pretty easy. Hopefully someone didn't let the dog go (not wanted the dog). Dogs are usually easy to find rescues and homes since the numbers aren't as great as feral cats.

Let me know any questions you have. Whew, you have had a busy few days.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I worry about Stella because she has a history of not doing well when I/my uncle left. She lost a lot of weight when my uncle left and tore a hole in the couch when she wasn't really a destructive dog in that sense. And we started bringing her over on the weekends to start getting her and the cats used to it, but every time we brought her back to my aunt's she'd whine for an hour or two and not eat for a few days.

I hope so, but I just don't have access to big dogs like I'd need to have. I know of two large dogs, but I don't really communicate with much of my family. But I do hope to work on it at some point in time. I'd like to get a dog behaviorist for Stella, but just don't have the time or money right now.

Oh, and we had our first incident in three weeks. And our second. And our third. And I think our fourth too. In two days. Friday night there was some hissing and spitting and Ash went into hiding. Again later that night though I was starting to think I was going crazy because Ember was totally calm and in a different room by the time I went to see what was going on. She did get a little tense when I called her closer to where Ash was hiding though. And Saturday they got into a slapping fight. I didn't interfere because it was the first time Ash actually stood up for himself. If it wasn't so worrying it would have been amusing though. They were just kind of slapping at each other, hardly making any contact. There was a small chase later that night too. I think it might be because of the lack of play/training. I was gone for a week and my mom has been having problems with her shoulder so she can't do much.

Yesterday we had our family friend and his small dog over again. We like having her over to play with Stella. Ember has been doing really well. She doesn't hide hardly at all and I had her and the two dogs doing some training together. Frost came over and started his weird meow of protest and wouldn't stop even with the other dog a foot or so away. He even lashed out at Ember! I ended up locking him in my mom's room while I had treats out. Ember is more violent since she hisses and slaps, but she only does it when the dog gets too close and gets over it pretty much immediately once the dog is further away.

I really can't say for sure on the age of the kittens. I'm no expert and I can't go by many of the methods I looked up since I'd have to be able to get a hold of them. But it doesn't look like they're eyes have finished changing color. They're a real muddy sort of color that I do believe I remember Ember and Coal going through as they went from blue to green-gold. I really don't think these cats are feral though. The mom let me get within a few feet of her and her kittens. They were all pretty calm. I don't think it would be very hard to socialize them and find them homes. They're a very pretty little family. I would take the mom myself if I could. So I'd really like to find a shelter that would take them in and I think I'm going to look for one before taking any other steps. I don't really want to contact Alley Cat Allies when I'm not sure what we're going to do with the cats. If we're doing TNR then I'll definitely be contacting them though. There's no way we can pay to have these cats spayed/neutered.

I think I could probably manage trapping them. I've read enough threads that I have a good idea of how it's done. Of course, having a professional would be best, but in the case that we don't, I don't think it would be too difficult. I just don't quite know how to get both mom and kittens or how I'm going to do it which such limited time. I won't be going back for a while after this weekend. It's too bad my dad hadn't found these cats earlier on. I live about forty minutes away from his old house, so there's rather little I can do other than when I'm with him. But I'll try Alley Cat Allies once I know if they're going to a shelter or being TNRed.

Well, the cat apparently chased the dog away. My dad said the cat arched her back and hissed and the dog went running. He thinks the dog followed his neighbor. He's much more inclined to help the dog than the cats though so I'm not too worried. If the dog shows up again, he'll probably help her. It's more or less on me to help the cats though. He'll help, but he won't do anything beyond what I say to do.