Struggling With Play Time

[calicosrspecial]

I know exactly what you mean. It is pretty funny. It is never easy is it?

Yes, definitely. Yeah, it can get painful. It isn't fun. It is nice when it is warm but when it is cold it is really bad. Not fun at all.

I get cold at night as well. Or at least colder and the weather tends to get cooler as well. But the cats just like to get warm anytime. Or maybe they use me to cool down? I don't know, they are pretty silly so I can't rule anything out.

That is different. I wonder what changed? Maybe he smelled an animal or another cat? Was he uncomfortable? One of my girls goes through that once in a while, I never figured out why. Sometimes they just do for some reason. They want attention or play etc. It is cute he headbutted you. That is pretty special. Maybe he was hungry? Wow, 3 times and not even trying to hide it. Persistent. Maybe he was just hungry. For whatever reason. Just try to give him some extra attention and see if that helps a bit.

 

[Animal Freak]

My activity might fluctuate for a while. It's a really stressful time and I'm struggling with time management and stress management. It should be over with after next week. It's just that by the time I have time to myself, I don't really feel like doing anything.

Nope, never.

Yeah, it doesn't bother me until it gets painful. I'm used to my fingers being cold so I barely notice for the most part. Once they start hurting though, it's kind of annoying.

I freeze at night no matter what the temperature is. I don't think it's quite as bad in the warm weather, but pretty close. It's annoying going to bed hot, sleeping cold, and then waking up hot. I might be a bit more restless because of that, so it's possible no one wants to deal with me.

I don't know. I didn't notice any other changes. It wasn't as if the behaviors in themselves were weird. They were just extreme. He's let me brush his back legs fine, so his arthritis doesn't seem to be bothering him. He's just been very needy. He doesn't actually come around for attention much. I'll admit I don't typically go out of my way to give them all attention every day, but Ember and Frost have no problems coming to me. Ash, on the other hand, just meows. He'll come around if you respond to his meowing though. I can't say his headbutting was all that cute at 5:30a.m. He headbutts a lot, but not usually at that time. He's calmed down a bit, but he's still being stubborn about Frost's food. Honestly, I started planning on it. I give them less food and Frost more to help balance out the difference, but I do still try to keep them out. At least I can say I tried. I know they'll still do it when I'm not there.

But then, of course, I started giving Frost extra food and he's actually started eating again. He ate all his food last night. It was more than he should eat in one sitting too. I had been giving him a bit much anyway because he was only eating the wet cat food, so I tried to give him a bit more of that (still not enough, but more) as well as dry food. So he ate quite a lot of food.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Don't worry, I understand. I hear you on stress and time management. I have been so busy I haven't had much time to spend on here to help others. At the end of May I am going to be out of commission for a few weeks and can't be on here. But hopefully I can return faster.

I know you can handle the stress and demands. Just take it slow, be methodical dealing with everything and do your best. We always get through things.

Hahahaha, nope. Agreed.

Yes, it is awful. My fingers and hands today are really cold and it is difficult to even type.

Oh yes, having temperature changes will cause restlessness. It is hard to regulate the changes. Even with blankets.

I understand. Sometimes it just happens. My one girl was really vocal yesterday and I was wondering. Today, she is totally normal. Who knows. The change is what one picks up on, agreed. Oh I know, headbutting, walking all over, digging in to a position at all hours of the evening. Hahahahaha, maybe I am just am so use to it that I laugh. They just do what they want. Sometimes even more aloof cats will want attention. My ferals are all attention wanting right now. Like constant rubbing, headbutting, rollie pollie. Then if I walk away they come running to get in front. I think it just goes in phases for some reason. Maybe the weather/season change? That is a good way to deal with his desire to eat Frost's food.

Wow!! Go figure. If you ever figure out cats you will be the first. Hahahahahaha

Hang in there. Just do your best and tackle one situation at a time and keep moving forward. You'll get through it. Stress only holds us back makes us less efficient so if we just take a deep breathe and accept the situation and try to make small progress you'll get through it even faster. I know it is easies said than done but it does work. I just heard the song "Don't Worry, Be Happy". I was singing it because I was feeling stressed. I am feeling better now, just accepting what is happening and going to deal with it the best I can. You can too.

Don't worry, just post when you can. I don't want to add to your stress.

 

[Animal Freak]

You've done a lot to help. I think everyone can understand that you can't be here constantly. I should be able to manage a while. As long as my stress doesn't rub off on them, which, for the most part, I don't think it has. They seem fine.

I'm definitely going to need to get better and handling stress if I want to run a shelter though.

Ouch. It's too warm for me to have that problem though typing does seem to make it worse. My fingers almost always get cold when I'm typing, reading, or drawing. Which is basically all of my hobbies.

Very hard. I'd rather just stay cold.

Ash is an odd one. Well, they all are. I'm glad this isn't a normal thing though. I'm really not the most patient person and I don't always sleep very well, so I'm not sure how I'd handle it if they were constantly waking me up. I guess I'd get used to it eventually. Ember does try. She used to slam the bathroom door open which opens into my mom's bedroom door, so we had to start closing the bathroom door at night. Then she started slamming my door open, but I think she figured out it doesn't work. If I'm not already awake then it won't bother me. She's been bringing me "offerings" a lot though. And then meows until I go pet her. The other night she dragged the wand toy off of the table and into the hallway though she gave up there. Then she went into my room meowing until I followed her out to where the toy was. It was still perfectly wrapped up how I had it too. I don't know why she always has to get the toys that are put up though.

Well, you can rest assured. I don't think I will. Cats. They're just... cats. I think sometimes that's all there is to it. They don't always need deeper meanings. It's just a whim of theirs. But it definitely doesn't make things easy. We finally ordered their new food though. We're going to make everything American Journey at least for now. Once I have a better idea of what we can afford, I'll start mixing and eventually I might get them on something even better.

I'll definitely try. It's getting a little better. I'm starting to get on top of some of these projects. I'll be happy when next week is done though. After that it'll be a lot better. I am trying different things to help with stress though. Lavender oil helps a lot. I keep a small thing of it on me. Making sure I have time to do what I want helps as well.

I don't think you can add to my stress. Talking things out really helps, especially with someone who knows where I'm coming from. People would think I'm crazy (or crazier) if I tried to talk to them about my animals like I do here.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I just have to deal with something that will be a bit challenging and put me out of commission for a few weeks. Hopefully I can recover and get back up to speed fast. Then once I get over this I can get more involved again. It is a bit complicated but things will work out.

I don't worry about you, you have a great handle on things. You can handle anything. And if any problems do come up then when I can be on here again we can work through them. You have done a great job and I know you will continue. But I should get through this in a few weeks. I will be around all this week.

You are not alone, we all need to handle stress better. I am so stressed right now. Not being able to care for my animals is very stressful. Trusting someone else to. It is hard but all we can do is accept the situation and do our best. I always think one step at a time and try not to outrun my thoughts and deal with what is happening now with some planning for the future but not worrying about things I can't control.

I am the same way. My hands have been very cold and swelling making it really hard. Isn't it the way it is? Anything we like there is something that makes it a bit more difficult. Hahahahaha

Well, I would prefer warm but at least when it is cold I can layer up but my hands and feet do get cold. You are lucky you don;t mind the cold too much.

Cats are unique, no question. Each has their own quirks. Wow, that is something about Ember. She is really smart!!! When you mentioned "offerings" I was thinking mice etc. Toys are much better!!! Hahahahahaha

Hahaha, I don't know maybe you will be the first!!! They are something. One thing I do know is they really do love a lot. I think you are right, something things are whims but I think a lot if just such a deep love for the human.

That is great on the food. I hope they like it. Cats can be so finicky. Just make sure you transition them slowly so as not to upset their tummies.

I am so glad the stress is getting better. I knew you could handle it! And use it as a learning experience. Look back and see where you could have handled it better and what you did well. And learn where your energy was well spent and not as well spent. And next time you will be better to handle it. It is all experience, we all go through it and as we go through it more we handle it better.

I am glad to hear that. Talking things out does help I think. It helps maybe put things in perspective and to slow things down and look at things in maybe a different way. Hahahahah, only people that aren't worth it if they would think that. I have learned that it is not only us but others that impact the situation. We have to be objective at looking at each party to the conversation. So never default to yourself being the "issue". Sometimes we are but sometimes we aren't so to assess the situation objectively is always good. If we start yelling about how the M&Ms have green ones in the bag then we have the issue but if there are rotten bananas in the M&M bag then it is not our problem (if that makes sense). Anybody that loves their animals like you do is a wonderful person. That I know.

Hang in there, you are almost through the stress. You can handle it!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

Wow. I didn't mean to be away for as long as I was. Well, I shouldn't have any more problems getting on now.

I'm sure it'll all work out.

We'll probably have problems, but hopefully nothing that I can't handle. I hope.

I understand how hard it is to not be able to care for them. I had to go two weeks without taking care of them and half of it was spent elsewhere. It was hard. As much as I don't like cleaning out litter boxes, I prefer that over not having them around.

Oh, yes. There's an issue for literally everything I like. Oh well, I'll just have to live with it.

I'm so glad she doesn't have access to live mice! She's been very needy today. I'm not sure if it's because I got home early(I was home early yesterday too and she wasn't this bad) or because she was locked up all day(Get to that in a bit), but she only just recently stopped trying to get my attention. She dragged all four of the toys out of my room into the hall and wanted attention each time. She moved two of them three times. I started ignoring her and she brought on into the dining them and then another all the way into the living room. And she's meowed a few times without getting a toy. All in about an hour and a half. And I always pet her when I first get home too.

They are loving creatures. When they want to be, at least. I think it takes a certain kind of person to understand them and their actions. Even then some things remain a mystery, but you have to be open minded with them. Sometimes the most important things are the small ones.

The food finally came yesterday! It was supposed to be here Tuesday and we had thought it would be here Monday since we ordered it Thursday night and it was 1-2 day shipping. But it's here. We get Stella dry food and the cats wet food. I barely gave them any last night so we're definitely taking it slow.

Well, it ended up not being as stressful as I expected. I thought these passed two days would be the worst of it, but it turned out that the time leading up to it was worse. It's over now though. I did get to feeling kind of ill the other day. We're assuming that was caused by stress.

I don't think I'm really a problem. I might be a bit excessive. I'm very defensive when it comes to animals, but only because they're so misunderstood. People don't always respect them. I think they need to learn some sort of understanding, but most people don't agree with my thoughts. At least not to the same extent. I know people who love their animals, yes, but respect is a different matter. For all the people who say they think of their animals as family, it seems like rather few actually act like it. To me, they are family and I think sometimes people believe I'm humanizing them, which isn't the case. I do understand they aren't human and can't be treated like humans, but I don't think that changes anything. I'm closer to them than I am just about any human.

So, changing the topic, I'm not completely through my stress. However, this stress is coming from the cats. We do seem to be having some issues. I'm hoping we'll get through it, but I'm feeling a little stuck. You see, I was gone last weekend and so my mom took care of them. She said she was brushing them and it was Stella's turn. Well, the cats didn't get out of the way and the dog spooked Ash. He hissed at her. Ember attacked him. I wasn't worried when my mom told me this because it happens. I thought Ember was mostly past that, but it's not totally uncommon. But there have been several occasions where she's gone after him. Usually it seems completely random. Of course, I believe they always have their reasons, but this time it's clearly not anything Ash is doing. He can be laying down minding his own business and all of a sudden she's spooked and lashing out. She gets over it fairly quickly, but sometimes she reverts right back to it just as quickly. Nothing's come of it so far and I've mostly stopped fearing injuries since it's never happened, but Ash is stressed. He growled at Frost this morning after two incidents. Once I saw Frost go running into the dining room. Ember was laying on a box, Ash on a chair. She started hissing at him and growling, but didn't move. I calmed her down and she walked away, but it was maybe ten minutes later that they went tearing through the house, Ember chasing Ash. She left almost before I could get there. I went to pet Ash and he flinched away at first, but then let me. But he started growling when she wasn't even there. Then Frost came over and Ash growled at him.

After that I decided it would be for the best to shut Ember in my room for the day. Ash was clearly at his limit and I was afraid they would end up having their first real fight while we were gone and someone would get injured. So I put her in my room with some toys and sprinkled catnip in there and the living room. Everyone was happy. She honestly didn't even try to get out in the several times I opened the door. Especially if I was going in, she'd back right up and let me go in without a problem.

Well, the biggest issue has been that I don't know what's causing it. I don't think it's Ember insecurity this time. I mean, I'm sure it's not helping, but I don't think it's the main cause. She's gotten a lot better. She gets up on the toilet rather frequently, lays on her back much more than she did, walks with her tail help sometimes even when she's spooked, and when she is frightened she recovers quicker. So I think she must be picking something up from somewhere else and lashing out because of it.

Last night I saw Ash get in the litterbox, sit a moment, and then take off running. There was nothing in the litterbox. So now I'm worried he might have a UTI. I'm wondering if he isn't uncomfortable and she's picking up on that. He also hasn't been playing much so I thought maybe he has some pent up energy she's reacting too as well. We want to take him to the vet, but they're closed this weekend. Their next day is Tuesday. I have to get an allergy shot Tuesday. I would be willing to reschedule it, but I missed it last week and I don't know if I can another week without it and it not affect my dosage or anything. For now we're trying to get water in him and do what we can to maybe clear up this UTI.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is ok, I understand. It happens. I actually am going to be out of commission for the next 3 weeks or so (hopefully not longer). But I will check when I am back home best I can.

I hope so.

Oh, I think you can handle anything. You have good cats and you have great knowledge and desire to improve any situation. Those are the keys. If not when I am back on my feet we can address them but I think things will be fine. I am confident you can handle anything.

Exactly. And you know they are taken care of the best way possible. As if this isn't stressful enough then it affects others too. :/

I hear you. I know exactly what you mean.

It sounds like she missed you and had energy and just wanted to be with you. It is pretty cute when thinking about it but i know it is stressful when it is happening right then. I think it is that special bond you two have.

I think you are exactly right. True love even when they don't always show it. But it is there.

That is great!!! Yes, take it slow to transition so their tummies don't get upset.

Well that is good. A lot of times the waiting or anticipation is the hardest part. We worry about the unknown then when it comes it isn't usually so bad. It probably was stress, I haven't felt well either because of worry and stress. It really is bad for a person.

You and I think exactly the same on every point you wrote. I do think respect is part of love so it has to be there for true love. I think most people are just more selfish. I know I am more with humans than animals. Maybe for a variety of reasons. But the animals are most special. I stopped trying a long time go to change the world. Many people just don't respond. So I do what I can to make the world better. My animals really are family. They are loved as much as possible. I try my best.

This happens. Ember probably thought Ash meant some risk to her. These things can linger. Always try to calm the situation and make positive associations and make every encounter as positive as possible going forward. There will be minor dustups from time to time but as long as they don't actually fight then it is very manageable. This happens all the time in intros. And my goal when this happens is to make every encounter as positive as possible getting them to look away, focus on food or something else, etc. Anything so they are close but there is nothing negative going on. Then the trust builds up again. So just be ready to distract them if you sense some tension and make every encounter between them (eating, getting love, hanging out) as positive as possible with them focused on other things and not each other. When they look away it is a HUGE positive as no one would look away from a true threat.

I don't like to close off territory but if it has to happen you did it the exact way, making it "fun" rather than punishment. The fact she didn't mind is a positive and defused the situation. Well done.

It is hard to know. It could be she was feeling your stress (this is a very common factor). It could be she felt threatened as maybe she doesn't fully trust Ash yet. It could also be that Ash is acting a little unconfident and acting like prey. A combo of these. This is actually very normal. We want to do the above I mentioned to build their trust again. You can handle it.

It could be a UTI or other issue and it is always best to address it. And yes, it could be he isn't feeling well and she is picky up on it (I didn't mention that in the last paragraph so good thought). Sometimes they like to do that and play, kind of hide in there and it is part of their hunting. Just keep an eye on him and make sure he is using the litter box like usual. Any change and then it is more urgent to get him in to the vet. Since he is prone to UTIs. Poor guy.

I am not going to be able to check the internet sadly but when I get back on my feet in a few weeks (probably 3 if all goes right). Just trust your instincts and your knowledge and you will get through this. Everything you mention is pretty common and can be handled and I know you can do it.

Just post anytime and when I can I will read them all and get caught up. Keep up the great work and don't worry, you can handle this.

 

[Animal Freak]

That's fine. We'll manage one way or another. You've helped a lot and the knowledge I've gained up until now will get us through. Or, if nothing else, I know I can rely on the people of this site to help out.

I sure hope I can. I do have great cats. Being on this site has helped me realize how lucky I got to have such well behaved cats.

Yeah, I really don't like having to rely on other people, let alone rely on them to take care of my animals. Especially when so much goes into it. People seem to assume that cats are easy to take care of, but it's not true. Some may be, but I would bet the majority of them have something that makes them less than easy. A behavior issue, a medical issue, or whatever it may be.

Well, it's a good thing I love her! I really think it's sweet she wants to give me something, but I think it's gotten to the point that it's less about giving me something and more about getting attention. Not that it isn't still a sweet gesture, but she's definitely figured out she gets attention for it. And once or twice is fine. Three or four times in bearable. But once it gets to five, six, seven times... It's a little frustrating. If it was every now and then, it would be fine. But she does it repeatedly within minutes of the last time she did it so I barely get to sit down before I'm getting up to pet her again. And if I ignore her, I feel bad about it. Of course this isn't the worst problem to have and I'm grateful she's not doing anything bad to get attention.

Well, so far no one has a problem with the new food. They're all eating it just fine. Frost even actually left a little of the Friskies behind though he went back to eat it.

You're exactly right. The fear/worry of something is often worse than that something ends up being. It happens a lot. All the time really, just not usually for such a long period of time. I always stress over the smallest of things.

Yes, I believe love and respect are two separate things, but both are necessary in any sort of relationship with another human or another species. Both are necessary to have an understanding and an understanding in necessary to have balance. You can love someone, human or otherwise, but if there's not respect then it's not really true love. It's... a different kind, a different level. Definitely hard to explain. And it's sad that so many people don't understand that. I'm extremely grateful I'm not oblivious the it, that I know what it is to love and respect animals. I wouldn't change that part of me for anything.

Well, I definitely wasn't worried about the first incident. And I wasn't too worried after the second. But it got to the point that it was happening two or three times a day and that was a bit concerning. Still no real fear of injuries, but I've already been through this. I know that every time they have a negative encounter, it gets that much harder to fix it. If Ember attacks Ash, then he gets stressed and fearful, she picks up on that, and so she attacks him even more. It's not an easy cycle to break once it's been started. I managed before and I plan to do it again, but it's definitely difficult when you don't know the exact problem.

When it happens, I usually get the treats once I think they'll be okay without me for a moment. I normally get myself in between them so they both feel a little safer and I can stop anything before it happens, and I don't like going behind Ember in case she feels trapped, so I don't always get them immediately. But then I'll give them all treats until she's able to be about a foot away or sometimes less without issues. She doesn't usually allow me to touch her in this time though, but I will pet Ash and let her sniff my hand.

Well, I don't like closing off territory either and I can see how it can be damaging, but that being said, I think it's far more harmful to let them continue to have issues and especially when I'm not there to diffuse it. I don't want the tension to be allowed to build. I have yet to see any of them being affected by being closed off, but I can say for certain that them getting into fights--no matter how small or one-sided they may be--is very damaging to their relationship and their own self-esteem. However, she did end up shut in my room much longer than I would have liked. After the second incident that night, I decided to keep her in my room with me and she stayed there until I got up. She didn't seem to have a problem with this other then when it came to be around time to get fed and she meowed a little after being fed as well. But when I got up, she was laying in bed with me.

Ash definitely has a problem. He had sat in the litterbox, as I said, and done nothing. This is odd for a couple of reasons. For one, he didn't do anything and I would have seen it because he didn't even hesitate before bolting out of there, so he definitely didn't cover it. And he doesn't usually use that litterbox. It has a cover on it and he doesn't like that. I can imagine why. It would be a bit claustrophic. I've seen him use it I think two or three times and the first time was when he had a UTI as well. Then, last night, he peed all over my bathroom floor. Which is where one of the litterboxes is. So he's able to pee now, but he still didn't use the litterbox. The only times he's ever gone outside the box is when he gets a UTI, but at least he was able to go and it wasn't a tiny bit. And no blood. I didn't see it because right then Ember went after Ash and I was calming them down, but my mom said it was totally fine and quite a lot.

I do think this has something to do with it at least to an extent. He acts mostly fine, but I'm sure it's not pleasant for him to have this issue. However, I think I've discovered the main issue. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. It's pretty obvious now. I always expected my stress to affect them, but I didn't think of my mom's stress doing so as well. She's been under a lot of pressure lately and has definitely had enough stress. I've realized that every single incident we've had has been with her around. Two days I've come home early and today I was home all day. Nothing. Not a single issue with me being here alone with them. My mom comes home and we have two or three incidents in a matter of hours, if that. Usually, the incidents will all end up happening close to each other. So I think that's probably what's stressing Ember and Ash is probably stressed and confused because of his UTI.

I still don't entirely know what to do about him having a UTI though. I hate for him to suffer any longer than necessary, but the only thing we could do is take him to an emergency vet which costs a fortunate. Considering he peed last night, I'm hoping maybe it didn't get too bad and it's clearing up on it's own. I've started giving him water by the syringe and give him water in his food both times, even with the wet. So for now I'm going to keep an eye on him.

I'll do my best to manage the situation. I do worry about Ash, but he does seem fine. I'm going to try to make sure he gets enough water and might be inquiring about what else can be done to prevent UTIs in the health section. I hope everything goes well for you. I'll will probably keep this somewhat updated, albeit not as often. I'll post maybe ever few days to once a week so that way I won't forget about anything.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I thought our problems might have fixed themselves. We went one day with one minor issue and the next day without a problem at all. Then it started going downhill again. Most of the incidents aren't anything serious, but they occur rather frequently and we did have what might've been the worst fight yet. Still very one sided, but Ember didn't want to stop. Normally she chases him and might try (and fail) to jump up on the cat tree after him, but then she gives up. Not this time. She kept trying and almost got to him and I do admit I raised my voice a bit, but I was starting to get a bit panicky. She's never been so persistent and my mom had gone ahead of me so I couldn't get through. After that she backed off though.

Today they were actually laying on the cat tree together, but we've also had a number of moments where it got tense. I don't even know what to think about those two. They started getting tense while I was trying to play with them and I put catnip down as well as sprayed some calming stuff. They did fine after that.

As far as Ash's UTI goes... I've no idea if he has it still or not. The day after peeing in my bathroom, he peed on a towel and my mom said she saw him getting a drink. However, I don't know if he's peed since going on the towel. With multiple cats and multiple boxes, it's hard to tell. He spends much of his time in the storage room and there's one box out there, not to mention he could go at any point throughout the night. I would think he would have gone on a towel again by now if he was still having problems, but at this point the only thing I can think of to do is lock him up by himself with a clean litter box. However, the only room I could put him in is my room and that would mean taking Ember's safe room.

 

[Animal Freak]

Ash went to vet today. That was fun. He got an antibiotic injection and an anti-inflammatory injection, I think. He wasn't happy. He needed it though and fortunately Ember didn't attack him when he came back. She was very tense for a little while.

Ash had hissed at her today too. It was odd. I've been getting them in my room with a calming spray and catnip. I play with them and there's been some mixed results. Sometimes they're fine, sometimes not so much. She wasn't even looking at him when he hissed though. Of course, then she was tense.

He also mounted her today. It was rather odd. I had gotten up and saw them both on the cat tree together, but he was on top of her. He's never displayed this behavior since before he was neutered. She let him though. Then he just flopped down on top of her and started grooming himself.

I managed to break up four cat fights yesterday before they even happened. When I brought Ash in my room, Ember lunged a little. I put my hand out and she stopped. She did it again shortly after with the same results. Then they were fine and on my bed together when there was a loud noise outside. I couldn't even tell you who moved first and I've no idea how I reacted in time, but I managed to get in Ember's path and stop her. I kept her there until she calmed down and then carried her past Ash to the cat tree. A while later they were all surrounding me while I was eating a snack. No idea why. Stella, Frost, and Ash were all on the couch around me and Ember was on the floor. Ash and Ember got into a staring contest. Ash broke. He took off running and Ember was after him. I called her though and I had just gotten up when she diverted her path and went down the hall. I was very proud of her for that. I didn't think she'd actually listen, but she did. I praised her and gave her treats for that.

We're making some changes to try to help with UTIs. I got them to two wet meals a day, but I have to admit I'm having trouble with the amount. Even three ounces looks like a lot of food for one meal. I'm guessing it's just because the wet is less calorie dense than the dry though. I don't know. But we're giving them filtered water and cutting down on dry food, including treats. I got PureBites chicken treats that should be coming in the mail any day now. I also ordered some gel someone told me they used for their cat.

I also got Composure treats for Ember and Stella. I want to calm Stella down so maybe we can actually get somewhere in our training. It's been slow progress. And I want to get Ember calmed down so she can realize no one is trying to hurt her and she can gain confidence. Maybe they'll help when someone has to go to the vet or get a bath. Definitely hoping they help Ember when I have to bathe Ash.

Overall, it's still really back and forth with Ember and Ash. One moment they're good friends and the next she's chasing him through the house. It seems like just about every other night I lock her in my room with me. I know they can be friends though. Often times they are. I mean, they actually have a good relationship as far as cats go. But I don't know why Ember lashes out at him. Always him and no one else.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am sorry it has taken this long. I had some unexpected issues and am recovering more slowly but I hopefully will be around for a while.

It sounds like the vet visit went well. What did he get the antibiotic for? Did the anti-inflam help him? It is good that she didn't attack him even though she was a little tense which is not to be unexpected.

I wonder why Ash hissed? It sounds like it was a mis-understanding. Hissing is just a way of communicating saying "don't bother me etc.". It isn't the worst thing and it can stop something bad from happening.

Sometimes playing can get them "amped up" and get them a bit playful excited. If they are both hunting the toy etc it can be a real positive. Just distract them if they seem to focus on each other too much in a negative way.

WHAT???????? Did that ever happen before? That is a dominance move. Interesting she let him do that. Hmmmmmmmmm I am surprised and not sure what to make of it.

Wow. Are you sure they were almost fights and not playing? How did they act after? Any cautiousness? Hiding? Avoiding?

It is just Ash with UTIs, correct? No one else still? That is good, it is always best to try to get them as much water as possible.

I don't know those treats but let's see how they work.

The fact they do get along tells me that it is not really an issue. Yes it can be better but it is achievable. Are you sure she is just not wanting to play? It can seem more worrying sometimes than it really is. Mine love to chase etc and sometimes it seems to get out of control but that is just the way they like to play. My ferals can get real rough with each other but they never hurt each other. It is just how they play. The key is always if they aren't hurt and how they act after it. Just keep trying to make every encounter as positive as possible and try to avoid any negative encounters.

I am still very tired but I will be able to check the site now at some point in the day. So please let me know how things are going. Don't worry, I don't get a sense you have anything to really worry about but we will improve things.

 

[Animal Freak]

Don't worry about it. Nothing has gotten out of hand. At least not too out of hand. We've had our fair share of issues, but mostly minor.

The antibiotic... I don't remember how she explained it, but it was supposed to help the UTI. The anti-inflammatory was supposed to help him until the antibiotic completely took effect. He's done fine since then.

I always try to distract them when they get like that, but it can be somewhat difficult because I don't want to startle them and I want to be ready if she does chase. Sometimes I'll just reach out towards her and she run off because she doesn't like to be touched when she gets into that state.

I have no clue what's going on with him. He's mounted her a few times and it's become clear that he does respond to her meowing. She meows wanting attention, he matches her meow (short, rapid meows that's not normal for him), and then tries to mount her. Sometimes she runs, sometimes she doesn't. She never seems afraid of him though. He has, more recently, taken to biting her though. He never gets far enough to get her scruff, but has gotten a hold of her back. She's still unbothered by it though. Once, she flopped down on her side and twisted around to lick him on the head. He lost his grip on her then and gave up. I created a thread about it, so there's more information on the individual attempts there, but it's happened a handful of times. He's also taken to shoving Frost away from his food which is weird. They like to finish each other's food off, but it's uncommon for them to push each other away like that. Testing his hormones was suggested. We called the vet. The vet called back. We missed the call. Of course. She left a voicemail basically saying it was dominance, they don't leave anything behind that would produce hormones, and he's just trying to boss her around. I don't like that she won't even consider it being something other than just behavioral. There has to be something behind it. I mean, why now? After 6+ years of being neutered and 4 years of living with this cat? He has never mounted either of the cats since before his neuter. When we thought Frost was a female and considered breeding them. Even then, I think it only happened once or twice.

Definitely almost fights. It's hard to explain, but I can see it in their body language. They're tense beforehand, during, and after. And they've never played like that. Not hiding, but a lot of staring. And you can almost watch Ash get more and more tense the longer Ember stares at him. I don't really remember much about the incidents now though.

Yeah, he's the only one. Fortunately.

I'm hoping they help a little. I've used them a few times now, but it's hard to tell what's the treats doing and what's coincidence. Stella has been doing a little better in the car, but not great.

I know there are cats that can get rough with play, but my group seems to have a very specific way of playing. Very rarely does it involve chasing. And it's always quiet. They look mean with lashing tails and flattened ears, but no hissing or spitting or anything like that. And when Ember chases Ash, it always ends with him cowering somewhere and her staring him down after they get broken up. When they play, one cat lays on his/her back and the other looks for the best way of attack. There's a lot of rolling around and some lost fur, but I can pretty easily tell the difference. To someone else it might be hard, but it's almost like they put off a different energy. Admittedly, Ember has never hurt Ash, but there's always some leftover tension between them.

Sadly, it seems like most of their issues occur when I'm here. Or perhaps it's both of us? I don't seem to have any issues with them when I'm alone, but there aren't any issues(that we know of) when it's just my mom either. It's kind of odd.

Well, you don't have to push yourself to. I do think I can manage, but there are definitely some things that could be improved upon and your advice is very helpful. The situation could definitely be worse though.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thanks. Yes, it sounds like everything was very minor even though I am sure at times it feels worse.

I am so glad he is doing well after the shots. GREAT!!!

Yes, it can be hard. Just do your best and try to do it in a positive way. I too will stick out my hand to distract them when a toy etc isn't available. Anything that avoids a negative encounter is a positive in my opinion.

It sounds like dominance to me as well. The biting in addition to mounting is definitely mating behavior though. I have had male ferals that were neutered years ago do that. Maybe they remember when they were intact? In rare cases I think things can come back but I think that is pretty rare. I lean towards it being a dominance thing for whatever reason. Now, the good news is Ember doesn't seem to be bothered by it. It could be other animals around causing it. It could just be a phase. I have seen it with ferals before and everything turned out fine with them so...........................

I wonder why Ash is pushing Frost away. Maybe he is worried about his access to food because of the changes (more to wet food)? Change can cause that. We'll have to watch but I am not too worried about that.

Hmmmm, that is not good. Just try to ease their tension in anyway possible. Talk softly and lovingly, distract them, break their focus on each other, use food/treats, etc. It happens and we can definitely get through it.

Ok, that is good.

I wonder if the shots had a bit of steroid in them. Has Ash's behavior changed after the shots?

It is hard to tell. But over time you should get a good idea if they are working. Nothing is foolproof but if it helps a little......................

You have a great understanding of their ways. Just try to ease the tension any way possible. If Ash is cowering then him showing dominance is understandable. It sounds like Ember wants to be boss and Ash struggles the most with it and therefore ends up having Ember try to "teach" him who is boss. VERY common. The good news is she doesn't hurt him (or vice versa). But we do need to work on making the encounters more positive and comfortable.

It could be a bit of attention seeking etc. Mine have the same issue. They act differently when I am here vs when I am not. I think it is an ownership issue. Kind of hard to explain but the main care giver, food source, love source etc can be more "needed" as they understand the importance of that (those) people. This is more common than you think.

Oh yes. Your issues are minor really. Yes it could be better (mine could too) but it could be worse. But we'll work on improving things. It is all about having them together and making positive encounters and positive associations. Trying to reduce/avoid the negative stares, etc. I am not worried about your situation but we can improve it.

 

[Animal Freak]

It can definitely get stressful, especially when things start adding on top of each other.

The shots always seem to do the trick. And he takes them very well for such a crabby cat. Funny that getting him groomed requires five people, but sticking him with a needle(two, actually) barely requires two.

Yeah, I often find myself with Ember staring Ash down, Ash considering running, and no toy within reach. When they get like that, I seem to instinctively put myself in the middle, but then I have to try to get a toy without setting them off. I feel like I should just always be carrying toys and treats with me. Last night we had a bit of a moment. No idea why. Ember brought me a toy so I was petting her and she led me into the living them. Then all of a sudden I ended up with Ash instead. She went around behind me and just started staring him down. I didn't even know until I saw Ash getting tense. He almost ran and she almost chased, but ended up not. I got a string(their favorite toy) and got her playing. All was well after that.

I can't possibly think of why he would be trying to mate with her, but it honestly does seem more like a mating ritual than dominance at times. Today she was meowing and he, of course, came running over. She just sort of laid down, but he got on her and bit her back. He doesn't even seem to be aiming for the scruff. He bites a bit behind her shoulders. Then he just put on foot on her and started kneading her like she was a blanket. She dealt with it for a moment and twisted around to lick his head. Then she took off running all of a sudden. It worried me a bit, but she was totally fine after that. She isn't avoiding him at all.

Well, him trying to get extra food doesn't concern me too much. My biggest concern is that Frost is finally eating and needs to put on some weight. Ash doesn't need to be stealing food from him.

Yeah, I always try to get them to break eye contact. The longer they stare, the more tense they get, and Ash always ends up breaking down and running. She doesn't usually do anything as long as he holds still, but once he runs she's in attack mode. But I always try to break them up and then give treats. And I'll give them treats until they can be within a foot of each other. If she won't calm down though I will put her in my room for a few minutes. Not long, but it helps calm her down. But there have been fewer problems lately. It's not perfect, but it's not happening every day either.

The first time he mounted her was actually a few hours before we took him to the vet to get the shots. And he's had them before. That's what they give him for his UTI instead of us trying to force medicine down him. He's never had a problem with them before.

PureBites treats seem to do the trick with easing tension. That string was rather useful last night too. They're all obsessed with those treats and it's been a long time since I've seen them play so much.

But if they really are trying to work out who's dominant cat, is there anything I can do? I always intervene in their "fights" because Ash losing confidence just leads to even more fights, but that probably doesn't help them figure things out either. Is there anything I can do to help them sort it out? I don't really care who's dominant as long as they can get along. Honestly, despite being so controlling, I've never considered Ember dominant. It was always more like she wants to keep things the same and keep things calm so she doesn't have to be afraid. The best defense is a good offense. Fix the problems before they actually become problems. But I thought it stemmed more from her insecurities than any desire to be dominant. I do need to work on making more positive experiences between them though. I have to work out some sort of schedule. I work by routine or not at all. If it's not a set schedule that I can get into the habit of following, I'll forget or put it off.

That actually makes me feel a bit better. Well, sort of. Less crazy anyway. I don't know how to fix that though. Give them more attention? I don't usually set aside time just for them, but they all know they can come and ask for attention. Ember probably(definitely) gets the most because she's the most demanding. I would say Ash gets the least because he's the least demanding. Sometimes I'll pet him when he's on the cat tree, but not much since I don't like standing there and I'm pretty much stuck if he starts purring and he doesn't come around much either. But when he is around, Ember backs off. She's never really fought to keep her place on the cat tree or with me or for the toy she was playing with. In that way, she lets herself get pushed around a lot.

I would definitely like to improve things. I think it'll get better when we're able to move and get into a bigger house and they can have more space, but who knows when that'll be. They have to wait a while longer. I will start working on some sort of schedule to get into to help them. I need to make sure I do training every day. That helps get them all close to each other without focusing on those around them. And I need to get them playing in my room again. And playing more in general to burn off some energy.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Oh yes, I know. Don't forget that cats can sense our stress and that can contribute to unsettled cats. It is easier said than done to control stress but trying is always best.

That is great that the shots work. It is funny that he doesn't mind the shots, that is very good.

That happens often, no toy in reach. What I do is tell them "it is ok" in a calm, confident, voice. I try to get their attention, break the focus. Try to calm them. Getting them to break that focus is huge. Then when one looks away it can help de-escalate the situation. I often have to do this with the outside ferals and new cats or cats not in the colony coming around. It works surprisingly well.

I am guessing Ember didn't like Ash taking over and she was going to let him know. It happens. but it is great that nothing ended up happening. You did a great job to avoid a potential negative situation.

I am not an expert but mating and dominance can be very similar and closely linked. It is tricky. Since he is neutered I lean to it being more of a dominance thing.

Wow. That is interesting. It is interesting she accepts that (for the most part). And it is interesting he kneaded on her. I had my male ferals do exactly this with one of my females (who all were neutered and spayed 4 years ago). And they get along after it as well (but she did run away at times also). I need to think about this more. Very interesting.

Yes, agreed.

That is exactly the right thing to do. Yes, the minute a cat acts like prey (runs away) the instinct of the other cat kicks in and the chase is on. Getting that positive association (treats) with them together is very good. So they can believe everything is ok.

Sounds like it is not the shots then. I am guessing it is dominance. It could be that he could be smelling an intact female from outside also. My sisters dog does this once in a while and my ferals do this once in a while but I never experienced it with my inside cats.

That is GREAT!!! Treats and play are so important, it sounds like you have found the right things to help in that.

Honestly, I am not sure a person can do much to ease the path to the dominant cat. I think they have to work it out on their own terms. Some cats are more willing to accept their position lower down and others will not accept it so easily. I have 2 dominant cats and 2 comfortable with a lower place. So I have some conflicts. All I do is try to make positive associations (play, food, etc), make sure there is a lot of territory so they can "own" territory (cat trees, bedding, shelving, etc), and try to stay confident and love them all. They will eventually work it out.

I think your analysis of Ember (a good offense is a good defense) is probably spot on. Cats that feel a little insecure or fearful will often attack before being attacked.

Honestly, I don't know. I think just do your best to build confidence, give them love, give them a lot of places to "own" like bedding, cat trees and places to go high (cat trees, shelving, etc), make sure they have good access to food, water, litter boxes, try to stay calm and confident around them, give them attention/love when they are near each other to make that positive association, use food as well together, try to make every encounter as positive as possible. Things like that.

It does sound like Ember might feel a little like an outsider (as she was the last cat in the house) so that does contribute to that "good offense is a good defense" view. It does get complicated and this is common in multi cat households.

You will improve things, I have no doubt. Space is important but things can be improved even in smaller areas. Always think vertically so cat trees, dressers, to increase the space so it isn't just floor space. But all the things mentioned before are very helpful. And like you mention, a routine is very important since cats love the predictable.

Don't worry, we will get there. I always like to get cats to be near each other safely and using positive things like food and play or love to make that positive association so that they cats build that trust between each other. We'll get there.

 

[Animal Freak]

Much easier said than done. I do try though. Doing other things helps.

I definitely appreciate him taking the shots so well. I just wish he took everything that well!

It's not always easy getting Ember to stop staring though. I can put myself right between them and she'll just move to where she can see him. Treats and toys are the only things that really work other than simply moving her out of the room. Toys don't always work, but treats do. They're all obsessed with these PureBites treats.

Yeah, I don't mind her standing up for herself. I like seeing both of them defend themselves. Just as long as the tension doesn't remain.

I'm definitely not at expert. I've never experienced this before! I had a very territorial cat before, but she always got in fights with other cats.

The vet doesn't seem to believe Ash has anything to produce hormones, but I am wondering about Ember. We had her spayed for very cheap along with her mother and brother and someone said it's more common in spays than neuters. And he's definitely responding to her meows. I just don't know why now and not before.

I think it's interesting too. Cats are weird. She goes from attacking(or thinking about attacking) him to letting him mount her. Sometimes even in the same day. I guess they keep me on my toes if nothing else. I'm always questioning something with them.

Well, I haven't seen any signs of ferals, but we know that doesn't mean much. We do throw food out sometimes, but not usually something that would be appealing to cats. Of course, the bird feeder attracts birds and squirrels so I guess that could attract cats.

I do want to work on their confidence more, but going to my dad's makes it difficult. I'm not here all the time. Fortunately, they don't seem to have any problems during that time, but they're not getting all the play and interaction I'd like them to be getting. But I can't do much about territory. They have three cat trees and half the time those two end up on the same one. I'd love to have more space for them, more cat trees, and put up some shelves for them, but that's not possible right now. We have to save money right now and need to continue to save so we can move. Eventually I want to offer all that for them, but it'll be a while. Ember did manage to get on top of my tallest bookshelf the other day though. It's probably close to 7ft. It's not anchored to the wall though so she's lucky the whole thing didn't go down.

Yeah, I've always gotten the sense that, while she was accepted into the household, she wasn't completely accepted into the group. Though Ash and Frost aren't as close as they used to be. They were very close, but they've become more people-cats.

I am trying to get back into the training sessions. I always miss a day and then never do it again. They do well with it though. I finally got Ember to do something other than sit pretty. I got all three of them spinning yesterday. Ash wasn't putting that much effort in today. I barely got high five from him and that's his favorite. Ember doesn't usually do anything that involves picking her butt up off the floor. She will sit if I can catch her before she sits down, but you can't get her back up to do it again. I was quite proud when she spun. I didn't think she would.

 

[calicosrspecial]

So true. At least you are aware and try, that is most important. Yes, doing other things does help, totally agree.

Yes!!!

Yes, I know how hard it can be with some cats. At least treats work. I need to get some of those treats, they sound very interesting.

Yes. It is best for cats to hold their ground for the most part so they don't act like prey. What we would like to get to is where they are so confident and comfortable that they don't even need to think about holding their ground or defending themselves. We'll get there.

Maybe we will become experts. It is interesting.

Yes, it would be pretty rare. I would ask the vet about Ember but again I think it is pretty rare. I didn't know that about spays vs neuters. It could just be the meows and not the hormones. I know if my cats hear another cat meow they definitely investigate and can do things. It is communicating so it could be some form of communication between them. It sounds like Ember doesn't mind so............... Ember never had kittens, correct?

Yes. Hahahaha, it is interesting. The attacking could just be her way of playing which morphs into something more than play. I have seen cats that play in odd ways. It tells me that we can improve things since she does accept him more often than not. So it is actually a good sign in my eyes. It almost seems like a way they are bonding. It is very interesting.

Yeah, ferals can be around (especially females) without us even knowing it.

Yeah, routines are important and change can cause them a little stress etc. BUT we do what we do in the situation we have. Given your situation I don't think that is a problem to be honest. They get along really well. Just do your best about building confidence. And it sounds like they have a lot of territory to own so that isn't really the issue. Your situation is VERY common in multiple cat households where a cat was added a little later.

Just try to make sure there is a lot of weight at the bottom of the bookshelf so it grounds it more. But it is a positive that she went high. A great sign.

Yes, that is very common. I have my latest that is like that. They all get along but she is just not as close to the others. It happens. But we can deal with that.

That is impressive. I am impressed!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

The treats are great! I'm only disappointed I hadn't heard of them earlier. All four of my animals absolutely love them. And it makes it easy for me since I don't need ten different kinds of treats. They're fine for both cats and dogs so one bag can be used by all four. However, most of the pieces are too big for training and they aren't the easiest things to break. Then most of the rest is practically dust. We used all the pieces of treats and I had to pour the crumbs into my hand. So not the most convenient thing, but it's worth it.

Yeah, I still have hopes of getting there. Maybe not soon, but eventually. I know there will always be issues with four animals in the house, if not between cat and cat then between cat and dog. But they all have mostly gotten over the dog's presence and she doesn't take them too seriously when they slap at her anymore.

It's starting to look like I'll have to become an expert.

Well, there's just one problem. I really don't want to take Ember to the vet. She's not used to car rides and so skittish. She doesn't like Ash going to the vet. I doubt she handles going herself much better. So I think I'm going to put that off as much as possible. She did stop Ash from getting on her once. I think she's getting a bit tired of it, but still not holding anything against him. No, definitely no kittens for her. We had her spayed pretty much as early as possible.

Maybe. I don't always see how the incidents start, so I don't know if she's already tense. It's definitely not how play usually starts, but cats are odd. Ash just randomly started mounting Ember, so I can't say nothing ever changes with them. It's possible she wants to play. Maybe she startles him and his fear triggers it? Maybe she starts play differently because a lot of times he's on higher ground? Usually if she wants to play, she'll stalk them and pounce from around a corner, but they're usually on the ground with her for that.

Sometimes I'm actually amazed at how well they get along outside of those incidents. Of course, when it gets bad Ash gets fearful, but for the most part he just seems to know when he's not in danger. There doesn't seem to be any phase between her attacking him and him trusting her again. It's just like the incident is totally forgotten by both of them. And they do get along pretty well.

They seem to be okay with my leaving. I do feel bad about leaving Ember. My mom always notices a change in her behavior when I'm gone. Ember starts relying on her for attention and sleeps in her bed. Pretty much doing what she usually does to me. I definitely want to interact with them more while I am there and try to build more confidence.

I'll keep that in mind. My other bookshelf wouldn't be so scary since it's longer than it is tall, but the one she on is very tall, thin, and a bit narrow. I guess it's not longer a safe place for plants either. Though I've never actually seen her eat plants, but if she can get up there, there's not doubt Frost can.

I'm glad they get along as well as they do and I think Ember knows that she has me if she doesn't have the other cats. She's a people-cat anyway. Like her mother.

I was impressed too. Even more impressive though, I got Stella in agility. Well, sort of. I put a broomstick on top of a couple of short boxes. Anyway, Ember was in the way so I thought I'd try to get her to go over too. Didn't expect it to work at all. Well, it did. My lazy, chubby little cat went over the bar. It wasn't high. She walked over it. But still. I was shocked she did it. And it wasn't just a one time thing. We did three short sessions that day and she went over every time, though she did have a limit.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is very interesting. They sound terrific and very convenient. I have to try them.

Oh yes, you will get there. And it should be pretty good until then. It is good Stella understands that a swat isn't too bad now. That is good. That they understand each other.

Yep. :/

Yes, at this point I agree. No need to stress her out for no real reason. Did Ash father anyone that you know of? I think it will pass, they will work it out but let's monitor.

Try to keep an eye on them and watch (I know it is hard). The "ambushing" way of play is common. But it can be more than that for cats. It is just hard to know without seeing it.

They do get along well AND the fact they rebound quickly tells me that everything is fine. Of course, we always have to watch and make sure it doesn't slip down into something but I think they have trust and love between them and even though they have incidents they are really very minor. When two cats really have problems it is easy to see.

That is normal. Ember sees you as her protector etc. It is common and normal that she acts differently and looks for that in your mom. Don't feel bad, you aren't doing it to hurt her, it is something that is important. She does get through it without ill effect so I wouldn't worry. I have a cat that is similar and when I can't be here I know how hard it is on both of us but then everything is fine when we are reunited with no ill effect.

Yeah, it is best to be careful. Cats will always go where they shouldn't it seems!! So we just have to make it as safe as possible for them.

Oh yes. It is good she is a people cat but I think she is more of a cat cat than you think. Maybe not in a cuddle way but they definitely seem to have a bond.

Wow, that is cool. Isn't it fun to get surprised like that? She is very smart. I bet that was cute. Very cool!!

 

[Animal Freak]

I got a different brand from PetSmart since I'm not home and ran out of treats. They have a limit on how many you can give though and there's also a warning to wash your hands after touching them. I'm not sure that I checked PureBites for a maximum amount and I definitely didn't look for any warnings like that... I'm hoping it didn't have any of that.

Yeah, Stella isn't as scared of them now. Not quite as pushy either, but she will press her luck a little. Sometimes if she gets a pretty fierce swatting she'll turn around and growl and open her mouth like she's going to bite, but I'm pretty confident she won't actually do anything. It surprised me she'd even do that much.

Nope, none of them have ever had kittens. Frost was the only cat Ash was exposed to before getting neutered. Well, after we got them anyway. I don't know how the breeder had things set up since we met her somewhere else. But we got them as kittens so I doubt he had any little ones of his own.

Yes, it can definitely be hard without seeing it, but it's equally hard to predict which makes seeing it difficult. I'm sure she has her reasons, play or whatever else it may be, but those reasons aren't exactly clear. A lot of times everything is calm and quiet when she goes after him. She gets tense when he's running around or playing with Frost too though, even though she plays in the same way.

They do seem to get along for the most part. I'm glad that they do, but it's still always stressful to see them fight. I'd like Ember to be able to relax and realize she doesn't have to protect herself. No one here is going to hurt her. I think it helps that Ash gets over it so easily. If he gets scared then it's very difficult to fix the problem, but as long as he doesn't lose confidence then they both seem to get through it fine.

I'm not sure I can not feel bad about it. I miss her too and I hate leaving them. I shouldn't be leaving for such long periods of time after much longer though. I'm glad she at least has my mom to turn to though. I don't think she'd do well with a stranger if someone had to come over, which is something that's going to have to happen eventually. I don't look forward to that, but we want to move and need to figure out where to.

Ember likes my bookshelves though. That's the first time I've seen her go up top like that, but my other one has a shelf that often mostly empty towards the middle. She gets on the fairly often. Frost is the one usually going where he shouldn't.

You're right. If nothing else, she does tolerate them better than a lot of other cats. Even with their issues, she seems to like them to some extent. It's not just avoiding them either. But at the same time, I do think she'd be fine if she was the only one. Ember grew up with the boys. They're part of her life. They're normal for her. I don't think she'd take well to a newcomer. At least not for a long while.

It was adorable! I was amazed she did it. She wouldn't ever get up to do anything before. I figured she knew she could get treats for a lot less work and wasn't about to put in the extra effort, but she did it anyway.