Struggling With Play Time

[calicosrspecial]

Yes, dogs want to please typically and seek affirmation while cats are independent or "take it or leave it". Always great o have both in the house!!

I think they know they have it great with you. I can't believe the love you have for them doesn't make it the best place for them. I honestly think cats don't have to go out so don't worry if you can't let your out. All my cats are ferals from the streets and they are so happy to be inside and be able to look out at all the wildlife and other ferals. As long as they can look outside I think it is fine and that they get a lot of love which obviously you give them.

I hope you can as well. You seem like a great person. Just be yourself, don't worry about how others might perceive you, just be yourself and the good ones will no doubt like you. No question in my mind you are intelligent, kind, and very likable. One good friend is worth a million "friends". Good for your friend helping animals as well. Saving lives is so admirable. There are so many great hearted people out there. It really is amazing.

That is really cool to hear about the site. I have seen your posts, they are really good. I think people here really have one goal, to improve the lives of cats. When you get selfless people like that it is easy to get along with them. A lot of people in the world are more selfish so its nice to be around people that are selfless. At least that is my take on the site. Pretty cool imo.

Dogs are a bit easier so I am guessing the need isn't as great. I don't know. Maybe you can start one??

Well that is an amazing dream/goal. If you put your mind to it I think you can succeed. There is some saying about inspiration and perspiration. It is difficult to get funding I am sure but what a way to make a difference in the world!! In the meantime, you are making a difference giving your cats a great life!! If everyone did as much as you we would have the problem of ferals solved!!

 

[Animal Freak]

And I do have both. I have to say, I think I lean slightly towards cats though I do l love my dog. I find cats to be more interesting scientifically.

Hopefully, we'll get in a better situation for them. We intend on moving in a couple of years which is going to be stressful, but it'll be for the best for all of us. It might not be in the life time of the cats I have now, but I'd like to have a cat proof yard sometime. They might not need it, but sometimes I do feel bad keeping them trapped inside. I know they'd love going outside. It would be a great chance to take some photos too!

Well, I won't claim to be selfless (I'm not) but I have something that I'm passionate about and I love animals enough to give up a lot for them. I've learned a lot here though. Honestly, I'm only able to post so often because I stalk other threads so much that I memorize things. And the people here aren't quick to judge. There's just an overall open feeling. People don't judge you for what you've done in the past, but instead help you try to make up for those mistakes.

I think dogs are more controversial. No one can agree on if they have dominance or how much. Then you end up with sites full of close minded people who refuse to look at it another way. Cats are simple in that way. More often than not the explanation is "Because they're cats."

I'll do what I have to to get a shelter running. Even though I hate the idea of the business aspect, I'm hoping that once it's up and running it'll get a little easier. I don't want to be stuck in an office doing paperwork. I want to help take care of the animals.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cats are fascinating. I just love them both. I honestly think they make lives better.

Well, I think they are probably happier than you think but it is always nice to move into a nicer house.

Well you are a lot more selfless than most people from what I can see. You spend your time to make your animals happier and better off and you help people here. No one is totally selfless but you are doing the right things in my opinion. I am impressed.

Interesting, I have never been on a dog site. Interesting observation.

It is funny because people do say "because they are cats" often. I actually think cats are really complex!! I have seen so many and I am still amazed.

That is awesome!! I like your drive. Work isn't really work when you do something you love. And when you can make a difference in the world it is really fantastic.

 

[Animal Freak]

I couldn't agree more. Rats too. I had two and I would love to have them again.

I think we could all use a little more space. We're in a two bedroom, one and a half bath house right now and it's fine, but the rooms are small. I need more wall space and it could help give the cats more of their own space to get away from each other. Not to mention I'd like to be able to offer them their own room to put stuff in, get the litter box out of my room, and have space for more cat stands, shelves, etc. And a bigger yard for a dog. I never intended on having a dog while living in this house.

That means a lot. I think I'm less selfless when it comes to humans, but I do what I can for those I care about and the animals. I'm not typically outright cruel though I do tend to be a bit pessimistic.

I've been on several sites. None have been like this one. I just recently found an active one to post on and was pretty much immediately chewed out for being "mean" to my dog.

Cats are very complex. I think that's why we have to say "because they're cats." They have their own individual quirks just as any human does. There's no way to explain every one of them because sometimes there is no reason other than because they want to.

Yeah, I want to do something I can enjoy. I refuse to be one of those people that's absolutely miserable, working for the money alone. Even if it does get stressful, at least I can feel good about it at the end of the day.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Really? Wow!! I don't know rats at all but I have heard of people that love them, find them fascinating.

I hear you. I hope you can at some point. Always think in terms of vertical space as well for cats. Cat shelving can work, look good, and give them a lot of fun. And height builds confidence.

You give to those that deserve the giving. I think that is smart and good.

Interesting. That is too bad. Some people are just different. I think you love your animals and know what is best for them. I always listen to people whether it is praise or criticism and then try to find the best result. I actually would rather have someone question me just in case I didn't think things fully through. But if they do it in a rude way it is very tough. People on here are very polite, I hope they feel free to question me as well.

So true!! I have had a lot of experiences where the behavior is unexplainable or at least we can't find the cause. What triggers it. I have found that focusing on the core things like confidence, trust, etc will tend to make things better. Like your guys, why they don't play as much. I am stumped in many ways. Most cats take to play so fast but a few just don't do it for some reason. I have no idea why.

I think that is great. I so agree. Changing lives is so rewarding, saving lives. Life is about so much more than money.

 

[Animal Freak]

Ironically, rats are a lot like cats. They spend most of their time grooming or sleeping and they, like cats, do not feel the need to please like dogs. However, they can very easily be taught tricks. Perhaps even easier than dogs as long as you keep the sessions short. Eventually they figure out they can just get the treats themselves and not do the work. They're highly intelligent and very stubborn which isn't a good combination for anyone lacking patience, but they are wonderful little creatures.

Yes, I like the idea of having shelves up the walls and even some tunnels along the ceiling. It might take a while, but eventually I hope to do it.

I was fine with the people who said I was doing it wrong and gave me another way, but one of them changed my words and said my dog was probably scared of me because I'm mean to her, but the dog is not scared of me. I have (somewhat) changed what I do, but some things are the same. We're slowly getting there.

Yeah, it's interesting to find their quirks. Ember nurses on herself when she's happy. For years, Frost would "suck his thumb" as we called it though he was just suckling on his pad. My cats are just lazy though. It's my fault. I slacked off on playing for a while. I don't know how. It was part of our daily schedule and then... It wasn't. I feel bad about it and am trying to make it up. They wouldn't play last night, but I was gone for a little while.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Interesting!!

Yes, they tend to love them!

Yeah, it is hard sometimes online because words are not seen with the body language like face to face encounters. I am glad you just moved on from it. GREAT that you are getting there!!

I wouldn't blame yourself. I have seen cats that haven't played for years and then took to play right away. I think it just depends really. Play is only one leg of building confidence in my opinion so it is not the end of the world. I agree with you the exercise is important but cat trees etc can help with that as well.

That is cute about Ember and Frost.

 

[Animal Freak]

I could probably talk about rats and cats all day. They're both fantastic. It's too bad one wants to attack the other.

Yeah, the situation with the dog is improving. She has some anxiety problems and I think she worries about people disappearing as we went through a kind of tough time before she moved in with us, but she's learning that no one is leaving her. She's getting used to the cats too. I feel kind of bad because she loves cats, but became scared of two of them. Ember doesn't mind her at all anymore unless Stella gets in her face. Ash is getting over it as well. We did have a bit of an incident earlier that was partly my fault. I was playing with Stella and Ash decided to sit right where she would run by when I threw the toy. He's been doing really well with her so I decided to test it. It failed. He immediately slapped her and hissed. Ember went after him, but she had been right next to me so I was able to put my hand in front of her to stop her from charging at him. Then she just kind of stalked up to him, stared him down, sniffed him, and everything was fine. I thought about grabbing a toy, but I didn't want to risk startling her and it doesn't normally work anyway. It seems like it's best to just let her sniff him and figure out he's not a threat on her own. I do watch in case it looks like she might attack though.

Honestly, if it was just the boys I might not have worried about play as much. They were (supposed to be) bred for the calm temperaments and they do play with each other. Neither of them have been over weight at any point and there was never the fear of them lacking confidence. They always got along. It's Ember that worries me. I kind of feel like I have to take the role of parent, sibling, and friend with her and we've obviously had issues between her and the other two. And she is overweight.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is cool. I know, I deal with ferals and one thing people like about ferals in their neighborhoods is that they take care of the rats.

I have had dogs with tough pasts as well. It is hard to help them build trust sometimes but with love you can do it.

Yes, unfortunately accidents can happen. The key is to try to make sure future encounters are positive. It is scary for a cat to have a big dogs coming towards them but over time they learn that the dog doesn't mean any harm. And Ember is protecting the dog. Not unusual at all. It sounds like you have a good handle on them. You'll get there.

Why do you feel like you need to be parent/sibling/friend?

Yes, play does help with weight control. And play does build confidence which helps cats get along in my opinion.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, my rats lived with my aunt who, at the time, had six dogs and two cats. One of the cats came after the rats. They all got along except one dog who was crabby and toothless. The cats would play with the rats and I'd pull them off if a rat started squeaking. No one got hurt. My rats actually chased one of the cats.

It seems strange that Ember would protect the dog. I mean, she doesn't mind Stella anymore, but they're far from friends. Stella is, at best, something to hold her up when she slips off my lap. Ember does not like Ash showing any signs of aggression though. I mean, if those are the only times we have issues, then I'm okay with that. It's better than what it was before and she calms down a bit quicker.

I mean, I think it's gotten better over time. The boys will play with her sometimes and whatnot, but it always felt like she was left out. Not hated, but not quite accepted as one of them either. She's more of a people cat anyway and she bonded with me so I'm often the one she comes to though she goes to my mom as well.

Even when Embers mother was still around, the second I walked into the room, Midnight would get out of the carrier and do her own thing while I watched the kittens and that was when they were still newborns too. It always worried me because I thought they'd get hungry or cold and Midnight didn't seem to care. And then the boys took to ignoring Ember so I was the only one she had the play with after her mother and brother were gone. Like I said, it has gotten better. I think she's on more equal terms with the boys now. They all pretty much ignore each other in their older age. Ember and Ash might actually snuggle more than Ash and Frost, but I'm pretty sure that's just Ember taking advantage of his body heat. She's the snuggler of the three. But now it's too late. Ember still relies on me for a lot of attention. She's spoiled rotten. In that case, I might be the grandparent too.

Though I have to say, now that I'm thinking about it, I think the boys are a lot more distant than they used to be. Do you think that's an age thing? It was a subtle change and, with my horrible memory, I didn't even notice, but they don't snuggle, they don't groom each other much. Heck, they're in different rooms probably more often than not.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Wow, they were friends!! Amazing!!

Ember sounds like she is peacekeeper wanting everyone to get along. Mama cat. I am glad it is getting better. You must be doing the right things.

As long as she is not co-dependent that is fine. She doesn't sound like it. Some cats are more people cats rather than cat cats. I have one right now. I am always cognizant that I am not her crutch if that makes sense.

It sounds like Ember has made a lot of progress, good for you!! If she is snuggling with Ash that is great!!

I have seen cats move apart as time goes by. I think it probably is age. Maybe they are more secure feeling and don't need the other cat for protection, comfort, security. etc? I don't know but I have seen it fairly often. In fact my 2 7 year olds are like that now. They were very close and now they do more of their own thing. As long as they are happy and confident (and not fighting) then I think it is fine. If they start walking around low or avoiding areas or acting differently then I would worry. But if they seem happy and confident I think it just happens.

 

[Animal Freak]

I think the cats occasionally irritated one of the rats. She was both more skittish and more aggressive than my other rat and she did bite the cat once or twice as well as Stella, but never drew blood. But they did all live peacefully. The smaller and friendlier rat would get out of the cage and wander the house frequently. I would walk in and she'd run up to my feet. She also tried to go outside with the dogs.

I don't think Ember's codependent, but she does like to know where I am and she doesn't want any doors shut between us. She wants to have access to me. I can't shut the bathroom door without her meowing outside. It's easier just to let her come in, check on me, and leave. She hasn't been coming in as much lately though. Now she just waits outside for me. She wants attention pretty much every time I move, plus some, but I think that's more upbringing than codependency. She learned she could get away with it.

I think it's too hot for snuggling right now, but I have seen them laying next to each other. They would both get in my bed a lot during winter and I'd see them snuggling there.

As long as they're fine with it, then I'm fine with it too though, I have to admit, it is a little sad to see them grow apart. They're all becoming more people cats which is nice, but it was always so sweet seeing them together.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Very interesting. Amazing the personality difference. I never knew.

Ember doesn't sound codependent which is very good so I am glad to hear you don't think so either. And I think she jsut enjoys you and having fun. Which is great!!

Then I wouldn't worry. They sound fine.

I know, I am a little sad as well about seeing my cats drift apart. But they do what they do. I love that yours are becoming more people cats, I think that is great and another indication you are doing the right things!!

 

[Animal Freak]

I think a lot of people look over rats, but they're really quite amazing. I always found it amusing how cat-like they were. They're smaller, easily trained cats. Well, easier trained when it comes to tricks. They are just as hard, if not even more difficult, to keep out of and off of things.

Last night was the first night Ember didn't make me pet her before going to bed. I ended up having trouble sleeping because I was paranoid something was wrong. She didn't make me pet her this morning either, but she was laying in my bed and she doesn't always bother getting attention when she's there. She's back to begging me for attention every time I get up anyway so I'm guessing she just didn't feel like coming around. Ash spent some time in my bed last night too. And came in this morning trying to get me to pet him.

Yeah, Ember is my first lap cat (excluding her mother who we didn't have for long and was even needier than Ember) and Frost took to laying on/next to me shortly after her. At first I thought it had something to do with her, but maybe it's just him getting older. Ash is becoming more affectionate. He used to only tolerate your hand touching him. Now he'll lay against my leg and let's me listen to him purr.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I never thought rats were like cats. That is interesting!! Funny they can do tricks.

Interesting on Ember. It is always tough to tell what is going on. Sometimes it could be they are just warm, or lazy. But if she is back to wanting attention then it was transitory.

GREAT that Ash was in bed too. With Ember?

A lot of times seeing another cat can cause a different cat to warm up. I have seen it many times. It is almost like a validation of the joy of it. And Ash, so great. And him purring next to you. FANTASTIC!! I love to hear this, these are really positive.

You must be really happy where they are and how they have been progressing.

 

[Animal Freak]

Oh, yes. They sleep most of the day and spend the rest of their time grooming or playing. They're independent, smart, and stubborn. They do pee on you though... This is very much like when cats rub on you, however. It's just their way of marking what's theirs.

No, Ash was there in Ember's period of not being there. However, I caught them laying together on the top of their new cat stand! Even better, I'm pretty sure it was Ash who laid next to Ember because she had already been up there earlier and was on the outside edge. Of course, she got down before I could get pictures. Figures.

I am very happy that that they seem to be getting closer to me. Of course I will miss the relationship they had between them, but I guess it's my turn for the affection. It's kind of funny since Ash is the is the last one I would expect to let me get close enough to listen to him purr, but he's actually the only one. As long as I pet him, he'll let me put my head on him for a few minutes.

I'm happy with the rest of their progression too. We've had no incidents other than I think Ember is still slapping at Ash when I'm making their meals. I'm not actually able to catch it though, but Ash seems to be getting over it. He doesn't seem so nervous. I've also been able to get all three of them to play three nights in a row now and am pushing Ember a little more. She normally stops pretty quickly and will play again a few minutes later, but I'm getting her to play a little longer.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Wow, that is interesting. I didn't realize they groom as well. They even "own" the human. Just like a cat.

Well, he must have felt comfortable to go in the bedroom and hanging out together in the cat tree. GREAT!!

I think it is fantastic they are getting closer. Some cats do others don't. You have given them a reason to want to get closer. It is interesting Ash is surprising you on how he is. Wow, there is really a bond.

Ash must be getting better because he wouldn't go into the bedroom "her territory" and to go up next to her. They are working things out, figuring out the social norms. And he must realize she doesn't want to hurt him which is a major step in the right direction.

I am so glad they have played 3 nights in a row. Play is so important. You must be doing something right. I love to hear this.

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah. Rats are quite amazing. They're all unique individuals just like cats and humans.

Ash has always been the distant and more isolated of the three. If there was one that I worried didn't like me, it would be him. However, I'm learning he's just a bit more subtle in expressing his feelings. I suppose we're the same in that manner. He's a great cat and I've long since accepted that he's not a lap cat and he's not the most affectionate cat either, but he seems to be settling in and feeling more comfortable with being affectionate as he gets older. So, while he might not greet me when I walk in like Ember does or even bother coming out like he does for my dad and brother, I've realized that it doesn't mean he doesn't care about me at all. He just likes his solitude which I can't hold against him because I do too. Well, at least solitude away from people.

I think getting Ash in my bedroom is a good thing. It seems to have broken some sort of barrier between him and Ember. He got up in bed with me earlier and Ember jumped up and took a place at the bottom of the bed. At first she didn't even act like she knew he was there. Once he moved around, she started staring him down like she didn't quite like him being in there, but she was quick to get over it. Tried starting a play fight with Frost which ultimately failed and then she ended up crawling up on the bed under the sheet next to me.

Ember and Ash are playing pretty consistently. Frost is back and forth, but he does make sure he gets to play at least a little in the beginning. He's kind of a brat though. He chases the toy for a few seconds and then flops down in the middle of the floor so I can barely move the toy without putting it in his paws. He'll refuse to move unless I physically move him, but the second I do he jumps back into the game and repeats the process until he gets tired of me moving him.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I never knew that before. Pretty cool!!

I think you totally understand Ash. That is great. My 7 yr old boy is the same way. He was never really affectionate, then one day he warmed up and now he is so loving. What changed? Not really sure, same routine etc. Just something clicked that he thought "hey, I want some love". Go figure?

I agree, I think it is great Ash is coming in bed. And Ember accepting. That is a great breakthrough. There will be ups and downs but a huge breakthrough. And that will build their trust and confidence. Wow, that is great to hear!!

That is GREAT!! You did it!! You are getting them to play. AWESOME!! Hahahaha, Frost, I can picture it. I have seen it many times (always males). He is a character. His way of playing!! Too funny!!

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah. Cats. They're such odd creatures, but we love them for it. Keeps me on my toes at least.

Ash, I think, is getting more confident. He seems less affected when Ember does lash out (which has become more and more half-hearted) and has gone back to rubbing on her while I make their dinner. It's always funny watching him go around and rub on everything and everyone! He'll even rub on the dog sometimes and then stop and seems to realize it's the dog.

Yep, we've finally gotten somewhere. Figures it took a broken toy to do it, but we did it. They aren't playing for long periods of time yet, but at least I seem to be able to maintain interest. Except, of course, with Frost. He is such a dork. Sometimes I don't know what to do with him. Love him, I guess. Not much else to do. It's always entertaining to watch him go after the toy when he does though. That rapid army crawl thing he does.