Struggling With Play Time

[Animal Freak]

I wanted to give this it's own post. I don't really know why, but it seemed better than make the other one into a book. Something happened this morning and I don't know where to go now.

So we were woken up to loud screeching. I've never heard them make a noise like that. It sounded like Ember, but it's the loudest I've ever heard from her. And it went on basically until I could get out in the hall, so of course it was over before I actually got there. But they were all three in the hallway and dining room with Ember and Ash growling at each other. Of course, food solved it instantly and there was very little tension left after that, but there were actually drops of urine scattered across the floor. That's a first. I would think between that and the sheer loudness of it all, it was bad and would take time to get over, but no. The second I had the treat bag in my hands, it was as if nothing had happened. They sniffed noises and were totally fine. Now I take that as a good sign that they're in a good place. But my mom doesn't think the same way.

Basically, she seems to think they're fighting all the time when we're gone and that that's the cause of every issue we have, including Ash's knotting/losing fur. Which doesn't make sense to me. I think I know these cats pretty well and I know how they act when they're having a tough time. That's not just going to suddenly change. If they were fighting that much we would have heard something because they've never avoided fighting with us here before and they wouldn't want anything to do with each other. Not to mention when that does result in fur flying, it's large, loose tufts, not these tiny bits of matted fur. And it's not going to cause these matts he's been getting. I literally pull a tuft of fur off of him and an hour later there's another. But no fights.

For some reason, this conversation changed from being about his matts to his UTIs. Which, I admit, her attacking him could cause those. But it could also be the other way around. We don't know. He's been getting these for a long time and he's prone to them. Whether or not he's being attacked isn't going to change that. He'd still probably end up getting them one way or another. But for some reason Ember has made my mom's life miserable even though Ash is the one costing all the money and not just because of UTIs that may or may not be related to be attacked.

Anyway, she said Ember needs a new home. I'm hoping this was out of the frustration of waking up to that this morning and she doesn't actually intend on going through with it, but I can't afford to have another fight break out any time soon. I feel like we're actually making some real progress now rather than just getting stuck in cycles. Ember is getting braver and more confident. There are actual noticeable signs. Instead of just breaking the cycle of attacking, I'm hoping we've broken the cycle of her lack of confidence.

But I don't know what to do. How can I avoid fights and make it so there's no chance they're fighting while we're gone? I already know they aren't since I did sit here all day yesterday and we're home most of the weekends, but I have to convince my mom of that even while she thinks I'm just trying to protect Ember. Lock Ember in my room all day? I hate to do it for something she isn't doing, but it seems better than rehoming her. And I probably am going to make a new thread for it. I need all the options available.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, it's too late to edit, but I thought I should say this. I was kind of panicky in that last post and I didn't want you to worry. It's still a little precarious, but my mom and I did talk and I think I got her to at least sort of understand. She seemed accepting of what I said. So I think we're okay for now. I'm going to have to continue to work with Ember and not slack off so we can at least limit the fights. I'm feeling better though.

Sorry about the length! I think I might have broken a record. I wish I could put something at the top to let you know you don't have to read everything.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cool, I take that as a great compliment!!!

I hope you are like this in "real life" also because this is you and you are likable etc. Don't be different just be yourself like you are on here. You are cool.

Ahhhhh, I understand. That is too bad. Like you said, the way something is said is very important as what is said. Hopefully they can improve the tone. If people give up then the good advice can never be used.

I know exactly what you mean. That look. And yes, the innocent acting but inside there is some wildness. Hahahaha, I see that in all my cats inside and out!!

Yes, a real sweetie!!! She seems really special.

Yep. That is like all mine. I wish I had a little Ember in mine.

Yes, mine would love them as well. My one when she was outside would grab a mouse and play with it, not kill it but play. She would pick it up and put it on the driveway and play. It was crazy. The other ones like the taste of mouse though. :/

It is good that Ash runs through the house that is good exercise. I am lucky, mine love to play. With me and with each other. Then eat, then groom then sleep.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I wanted to give this it's own post. I don't really know why, but it seemed better than make the other one into a book. Something happened this morning and I don't know where to go now.

So we were woken up to loud screeching. I've never heard them make a noise like that. It sounded like Ember, but it's the loudest I've ever heard from her. And it went on basically until I could get out in the hall, so of course it was over before I actually got there. But they were all three in the hallway and dining room with Ember and Ash growling at each other. Of course, food solved it instantly and there was very little tension left after that, but there were actually drops of urine scattered across the floor. That's a first. I would think between that and the sheer loudness of it all, it was bad and would take time to get over, but no. The second I had the treat bag in my hands, it was as if nothing had happened. They sniffed noises and were totally fine. Now I take that as a good sign that they're in a good place. But my mom doesn't think the same way.

Basically, she seems to think they're fighting all the time when we're gone and that that's the cause of every issue we have, including Ash's knotting/losing fur. Which doesn't make sense to me. I think I know these cats pretty well and I know how they act when they're having a tough time. That's not just going to suddenly change. If they were fighting that much we would have heard something because they've never avoided fighting with us here before and they wouldn't want anything to do with each other. Not to mention when that does result in fur flying, it's large, loose tufts, not these tiny bits of matted fur. And it's not going to cause these matts he's been getting. I literally pull a tuft of fur off of him and an hour later there's another. But no fights.

For some reason, this conversation changed from being about his matts to his UTIs. Which, I admit, her attacking him could cause those. But it could also be the other way around. We don't know. He's been getting these for a long time and he's prone to them. Whether or not he's being attacked isn't going to change that. He'd still probably end up getting them one way or another. But for some reason Ember has made my mom's life miserable even though Ash is the one costing all the money and not just because of UTIs that may or may not be related to be attacked.

Anyway, she said Ember needs a new home. I'm hoping this was out of the frustration of waking up to that this morning and she doesn't actually intend on going through with it, but I can't afford to have another fight break out any time soon. I feel like we're actually making some real progress now rather than just getting stuck in cycles. Ember is getting braver and more confident. There are actual noticeable signs. Instead of just breaking the cycle of attacking, I'm hoping we've broken the cycle of her lack of confidence.

But I don't know what to do. How can I avoid fights and make it so there's no chance they're fighting while we're gone? I already know they aren't since I did sit here all day yesterday and we're home most of the weekends, but I have to convince my mom of that even while she thinks I'm just trying to protect Ember. Lock Ember in my room all day? I hate to do it for something she isn't doing, but it seems better than rehoming her. And I probably am going to make a new thread for it. I need all the options available.

Oh my.

I pretty much guarantee that they are not fighting when no one is home. My best guess is they are sleeping the whole time. And if they were they would be fighting when you get home and when you are around. There would be no let up to be honest. It would be happening constantly and there would be clumps of fur, blood, things knocked over, etc. It would be obvious. Oftentimes it is when the humans are home they tend to fight as it is that resource they sometimes want more and when they have pent up energy like when they wake up. So early mornings and early evenings are usual times for fights.

So, is it possible that one of them was using the litter box and the other one disrupted them? This is the first time it ever happened, right? (drops of urine). And no one is going outside of the box lately, correct? So no sign of a UTI?

It could just be that one of them was scared and had a full bladder and some leaked out. It does happen.

I personally think there is no need to rehome Ember. Dustups happen all the time in every home. As long as no one is being hurt, or can't be distracted, or is hiding or slinking around, or just having a bad life then it is not something to worry about.

I can understand your mom's concern. But I get a sense they all have a great life and enjoy themselves. I don't think the UTIs are caused by Ember since he seems prone to them probably because he doesn't drink enough and maybe has some gene issues. But it is hard to prove.

I am guessing your mom has some elevated stress and then being awakened to that can be disconcerting. It is understandable. But this is a one off thing I think.

It is so hard to prevent fights. I wouldn't take territory away (lock Ember away) because that will cause more issues. But if your mom is really thinking of rehoming her then maybe having her in your room with you all night might have to be an option. But I worry about what happens after that.

I am guessing your mom just had a bad day (it happens to all of us) and that she didn't really mean it. But we have to take it seriously and understand that it is her home and we need to limit the fighting. But I think you have really done that so we need to explain why we think it is going ok. Before this there hasn't really been anything serious for a week or more, right?



I need to think more about this. I was not expecting this. I don't see any reason for rehoming anyone and I know you give me the full picture. But it is her decision. So we need to convince her. First off, remember to always be calm with your mom and be respectful and don't get angry etc. Then we will try to show her that they are happy cats and that it is normal to have dustups and that no one is being hurt. (If it was a serious fight there would be blood with the hair).

I just need to think more about this. I am guessing your mom just had a moment like we all do. But we have to take it serious. We have made a lot of progress it would be awful to give up now when it is not necessary. If you felt like your mom then I would be worried but I think you see the picture the way it is and it is really fine.

PLEASE keep me up on how things are going and I will think more about how to progress and try to explain why it isn't necessary to rehome Ember.

I know how emotional I am right now so I can imagine how you are feeling. Just make sure you treat your mom with respect and don't get angry. We need her support and her desire to give us time to show her everything is really ok.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Well, it's too late to edit, but I thought I should say this. I was kind of panicky in that last post and I didn't want you to worry. It's still a little precarious, but my mom and I did talk and I think I got her to at least sort of understand. She seemed accepting of what I said. So I think we're okay for now. I'm going to have to continue to work with Ember and not slack off so we can at least limit the fights. I'm feeling better though.

Sorry about the length! I think I might have broken a record. I wish I could put something at the top to let you know you don't have to read everything.

Oh, I should have read this post!! Whew!! I thought this was the issue and it is understandable that she had that moment. We all do. I am really proud of you how you talked with her. Pointing out all the positives and the progress. No situation is ever perfect but your situation is normal and we can still improve it. The fact they can eat together tells me it is fine. If one of them wanted to kill the other one they already would have. They don't want to hurt the other one.

Make sure you thank your mom for trusting and understanding. She is a good person.

We'll keep working on everything. Keep trying to play and make positive associations and make every encounter as positive as possible. But there are always issues, even mine have issues once in a while and though it sounds bad and looks bad there is never any harm that comes of it and if they can be distracted and can bounce back then it is fine. Sure we would like it to not happen but it does it pretty much every household.

Whew I can breathe again. I was really worried. Ember needs you.

 

[Animal Freak]

Cool, I take that as a great compliment!!!

I hope you are like this in "real life" also because this is you and you are likable etc. Don't be different just be yourself like you are on here. You are cool.

Ahhhhh, I understand. That is too bad. Like you said, the way something is said is very important as what is said. Hopefully they can improve the tone. If people give up then the good advice can never be used.

I know exactly what you mean. That look. And yes, the innocent acting but inside there is some wildness. Hahahaha, I see that in all my cats inside and out!!

Yes, a real sweetie!!! She seems really special.

Yep. That is like all mine. I wish I had a little Ember in mine.

Yes, mine would love them as well. My one when she was outside would grab a mouse and play with it, not kill it but play. She would pick it up and put it on the driveway and play. It was crazy. The other ones like the taste of mouse though. :/

It is good that Ash runs through the house that is good exercise. I am lucky, mine love to play. With me and with each other. Then eat, then groom then sleep.

I am usually pretty good at knowing if I'm going to like someone! I do enjoy our conversations though. Of course, I always like talking about my cats.

Thanks. That means a lot. I can be the same, I can be different. It just sort of depends on my mood and the situation.

Yes, I hope they find a way to change it. I always look forward to coming to this site and honestly probably spend too much time on it, but I dread getting on that dog forum. Fortunately, everyone(and by everyone I mean two people) was kind when responding to my last post.

Oh, yes. Ember is a pro at the sweet, innocent, delicate act. Well, it's probably not an act. It's just how she is. But she's not all that innocent! She is sweet though.

Haha, that's Ash. None of my cats ever injured a mouse. I'm not sure if Frost or Ember ever caught a mouse... Ash would usually catch them all. Then, when they stopped moving out of fear, he'd put them down and lay on them. And freak out when they started moving under him. Speaking of mice, we had our first one in this house. We found it dead in the basement. And it was apparently there for a while because the cats kept looking down the vent and we didn't know why. They've stopped since we found the mouse. That had gone on for a few days.

Yeah, he goes crazy fairly often.

 

[Animal Freak]

Oh my.

I pretty much guarantee that they are not fighting when no one is home. My best guess is they are sleeping the whole time. And if they were they would be fighting when you get home and when you are around. There would be no let up to be honest. It would be happening constantly and there would be clumps of fur, blood, things knocked over, etc. It would be obvious. Oftentimes it is when the humans are home they tend to fight as it is that resource they sometimes want more and when they have pent up energy like when they wake up. So early mornings and early evenings are usual times for fights.

So, is it possible that one of them was using the litter box and the other one disrupted them? This is the first time it ever happened, right? (drops of urine). And no one is going outside of the box lately, correct? So no sign of a UTI?

It could just be that one of them was scared and had a full bladder and some leaked out. It does happen.

I personally think there is no need to rehome Ember. Dustups happen all the time in every home. As long as no one is being hurt, or can't be distracted, or is hiding or slinking around, or just having a bad life then it is not something to worry about.

I can understand your mom's concern. But I get a sense they all have a great life and enjoy themselves. I don't think the UTIs are caused by Ember since he seems prone to them probably because he doesn't drink enough and maybe has some gene issues. But it is hard to prove.

I am guessing your mom has some elevated stress and then being awakened to that can be disconcerting. It is understandable. But this is a one off thing I think.

It is so hard to prevent fights. I wouldn't take territory away (lock Ember away) because that will cause more issues. But if your mom is really thinking of rehoming her then maybe having her in your room with you all night might have to be an option. But I worry about what happens after that.

I am guessing your mom just had a bad day (it happens to all of us) and that she didn't really mean it. But we have to take it seriously and understand that it is her home and we need to limit the fighting. But I think you have really done that so we need to explain why we think it is going ok. Before this there hasn't really been anything serious for a week or more, right?



I need to think more about this. I was not expecting this. I don't see any reason for rehoming anyone and I know you give me the full picture. But it is her decision. So we need to convince her. First off, remember to always be calm with your mom and be respectful and don't get angry etc. Then we will try to show her that they are happy cats and that it is normal to have dustups and that no one is being hurt. (If it was a serious fight there would be blood with the hair).

I just need to think more about this. I am guessing your mom just had a moment like we all do. But we have to take it serious. We have made a lot of progress it would be awful to give up now when it is not necessary. If you felt like your mom then I would be worried but I think you see the picture the way it is and it is really fine.

PLEASE keep me up on how things are going and I will think more about how to progress and try to explain why it isn't necessary to rehome Ember.

I know how emotional I am right now so I can imagine how you are feeling. Just make sure you treat your mom with respect and don't get angry. We need her support and her desire to give us time to show her everything is really ok.

That's basically what I had told her. They wouldn't just stop fighting around us when they had never avoided it before and there would be more than tiny, tightly formed clumps of fur. Those were certainly bits of matts, not the product of claws. And all of their fights (excluding when Ash gets a bath) have occurred when both of us were home, most of the time in early morning and late at night.

Maybe. Ash and Frost(he ends up in the middle of everything) were in the hall and Ember was in the dining room. Maybe he was on his way to the litterbox. There's two in that direction. And Ember probably didn't like being cut off from my room, but I don't know what set her off. It was the first time they've ever dribbled like that. He's peeing fine though and has not peed outside the litterbox since that last Saturday night/Sunday morning after we got home. I saw him in the litterbox just the other day though and I was able to hear him though it didn't look like much. I'm guessing it just all sank into the litter since it sounded like a good amount.

I think it's possible that the stressed of being attacked multiple times could set of a UTI, especially since he is prone to them. However, I think it's equally possible that Ember senses his pain/discomfort and lashes out because of that. It is certainly hard to prove though.

I don't think rehoming anyone is necessary either. Not now. Not after we've come so far. I think my mom just doesn't know them like I do and doesn't have the same experience you do. She's had cats her whole life, but wasn't raised to respect them. I've no idea how I got to be the way I am. I just got lucky, I guess. My mom a good person, but short-tempered and easily stressed. She sees their fights and thinks Ash must be miserable and that they'll never get along, but ignores how quickly they get over it and all the signs of trust between them. She is understanding when she takes the time to listen though.

Even though the danger of Ember being rehomed is at least mostly gone, I do think it's still something to be taken seriously and thought about. I can't risk her deciding to go through with it after all. It really was just one dustup though. They, indeed, haven't had any issues in over a week. In fact, they've been progressing further than ever.

Pfft. You wanna talk about being emotional. I am not usually an emotional person. Anyone who knows me can attest to that. And when I do cry, it's usually because I'm frustrated rather than actually sad. But when she said Ember needed a new home... I cried. I still tear up thinking about it. Could you imagine if I actually had to rehome her?

 

[Animal Freak]

Oh, I should have read this post!! Whew!! I thought this was the issue and it is understandable that she had that moment. We all do. I am really proud of you how you talked with her. Pointing out all the positives and the progress. No situation is ever perfect but your situation is normal and we can still improve it. The fact they can eat together tells me it is fine. If one of them wanted to kill the other one they already would have. They don't want to hurt the other one.

Make sure you thank your mom for trusting and understanding. She is a good person.

We'll keep working on everything. Keep trying to play and make positive associations and make every encounter as positive as possible. But there are always issues, even mine have issues once in a while and though it sounds bad and looks bad there is never any harm that comes of it and if they can be distracted and can bounce back then it is fine. Sure we would like it to not happen but it does it pretty much every household.

Whew I can breathe again. I was really worried. Ember needs you.

Haha. Yeah, sorry about that. Probably my only complaint about this site is that I can't just go back and edit any time. I would have added a comment at the top.

She was definitely more willing to listen later. At the time, no reasoning but her own made sense to her. She is a good person, but she's still learning. I am too.

I will. I'm trying to do better with the training sessions. Also, I think I'm going to harness train them after all. We had some snow the other day and I let them go out to see it. Well, I took them out in the space that we have blocked to keep them out of the basement. The backdoor is out there and I didn't want to watch all three of the at the same time, so I just took one at a time. I was surprised with the outcome. Frost was the only one who didn't even touch the snow. Ash never made it past the top step. Ember, however, not only went past the top step, but she went out into the yard. Another huge sign of her confidence building. We've let them out on the front porch a few times, but she'd rarely go more than a foot away from the door. And now she's obsessed. I've held her while letting the dog out before, but she really wants to go out now. Not quite fast enough to get by me, but she tries. Sometimes I take her with me to look out while I hold her. But I think I'm going to dig the harness out and try training her.

The cats really are doing great though. I've had all four animals on my half of the couch(big couch) with me more times in the past few days than the couple of years since I had four animals. Ash has become a snuggle bug and wants to be on or next to me frequently. Ember is coming around to the idea of him being there. Ash is also getting better with Stella. Stella is gaining trust, but is still a bit nervous. I saw Ember cuddle up to Ash for the first time in a while I think it was yesterday. Ash has groomed her a few times. Everything has been really good other than that one incident and they got over that very well.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am usually pretty good at knowing if I'm going to like someone! I do enjoy our conversations though. Of course, I always like talking about my cats.

Thanks. That means a lot. I can be the same, I can be different. It just sort of depends on my mood and the situation.

Yes, I hope they find a way to change it. I always look forward to coming to this site and honestly probably spend too much time on it, but I dread getting on that dog forum. Fortunately, everyone(and by everyone I mean two people) was kind when responding to my last post.

Oh, yes. Ember is a pro at the sweet, innocent, delicate act. Well, it's probably not an act. It's just how she is. But she's not all that innocent! She is sweet though.

Haha, that's Ash. None of my cats ever injured a mouse. I'm not sure if Frost or Ember ever caught a mouse... Ash would usually catch them all. Then, when they stopped moving out of fear, he'd put them down and lay on them. And freak out when they started moving under him. Speaking of mice, we had our first one in this house. We found it dead in the basement. And it was apparently there for a while because the cats kept looking down the vent and we didn't know why. They've stopped since we found the mouse. That had gone on for a few days.

Yeah, he goes crazy fairly often.

That is cool. I enjoy them too.

As long as you are yourself that is the key. I am sure you have written on here when you were in a good mood and a bad mood at times. But you have always come across well. Being yourself is good since you are a good person and likable.

It is too bad, I hope they change it as well because people need to feel comfortable in order to get good advice. If they get turned off before they get advice then it is a missed opportunity. I hope they change (maybe it will since your last post's responses were good).

Hahahahaha, yep, she is a normal cat. Sounds like mine.

That is so funny (how Ash handles them). I can almost see it happen. Hahahaha. THAT is funny. Good cat. Yep, when they are focused on an area etc then there probably is something there. :/ It is time where they want to come in. I know someone who borrowed a feral to rid their house of mice. They loved the cat so much it became the cat's forever home. Pretty cool though I do feel bad for the mice. :/

Hahahaha, that isn't bad. Mine go crazy often but not as much as when they were younger. :/

 

[calicosrspecial]

That's basically what I had told her. They wouldn't just stop fighting around us when they had never avoided it before and there would be more than tiny, tightly formed clumps of fur. Those were certainly bits of matts, not the product of claws. And all of their fights (excluding when Ash gets a bath) have occurred when both of us were home, most of the time in early morning and late at night.

Maybe. Ash and Frost(he ends up in the middle of everything) were in the hall and Ember was in the dining room. Maybe he was on his way to the litterbox. There's two in that direction. And Ember probably didn't like being cut off from my room, but I don't know what set her off. It was the first time they've ever dribbled like that. He's peeing fine though and has not peed outside the litterbox since that last Saturday night/Sunday morning after we got home. I saw him in the litterbox just the other day though and I was able to hear him though it didn't look like much. I'm guessing it just all sank into the litter since it sounded like a good amount.

I think it's possible that the stressed of being attacked multiple times could set of a UTI, especially since he is prone to them. However, I think it's equally possible that Ember senses his pain/discomfort and lashes out because of that. It is certainly hard to prove though.

I don't think rehoming anyone is necessary either. Not now. Not after we've come so far. I think my mom just doesn't know them like I do and doesn't have the same experience you do. She's had cats her whole life, but wasn't raised to respect them. I've no idea how I got to be the way I am. I just got lucky, I guess. My mom a good person, but short-tempered and easily stressed. She sees their fights and thinks Ash must be miserable and that they'll never get along, but ignores how quickly they get over it and all the signs of trust between them. She is understanding when she takes the time to listen though.

Even though the danger of Ember being rehomed is at least mostly gone, I do think it's still something to be taken seriously and thought about. I can't risk her deciding to go through with it after all. It really was just one dustup though. They, indeed, haven't had any issues in over a week. In fact, they've been progressing further than ever.

Pfft. You wanna talk about being emotional. I am not usually an emotional person. Anyone who knows me can attest to that. And when I do cry, it's usually because I'm frustrated rather than actually sad. But when she said Ember needed a new home... I cried. I still tear up thinking about it. Could you imagine if I actually had to rehome her?

That is good. You have a great understanding of the situation. Early morning and at night are prime times for wildness because of their energy levels. Early morning after they have slept and start looking for food (hunting) and the evening (after sleeping all day) when the humans come home (excitement) and again when they hunt as they get hungry. I don't know how much those Nanny Cams are but maybe that can be an option if you Mom stays worried about during the day. I can pretty much guarantee all is fine during the day. Play is so important to drain that excess energy but your cats are harder to get to play. But even them running up and down trees etc can drain energy. Mine often get wild right when I am getting ready for bed. That nighttime burst of energy is common. Since they eat earlier and play earlier they rest a bit then they have this burst of energy then after that they settle and sleep.

Sometimes clumps of hair can also happen because the cat pulls them out themselves if they mat etc.

It sounds like just bad luck. Dribbling can happen if they get a bit scared and have a full bladder. It is VERY good that no one has gone outside of the litterbox since that incident which again tells me it wasn't that bad and they got over it. And you did feed them and they got along right after as well. That really is the tell as to whether there is a real problem.

Yes, again you have it exactly right. My guess is it is more the latter than the former but both are possibilities. I think if you can get Ash as much hydration as possible that would be best. I know it s hard on getting him to drink but adding water to his food is a great way. I even add water to wet food if I worry about a cat not drinking. I think his water intake is probably the biggest driver of his UTIs BUT I am not an expert on UTI causes.

Your Mom sounds like a very good person. And the fact she does listen is very important. It is VERY hard to understand the situation. I deal with a lot of people I hear exactly what your mom worries about all the time. She worries about their happiness which is good. You have all the knowledge now and you understand so now you have to start teaching why (which I think you are and you must be doing it well). Always be understanding and respectful. I am guessing she was stressed at that moment (and the cats may have picked up on it) and it escalated. It happens. I see it all the time. Just make sure when your mom is stressed to try to help her out whether it is with the dishes, or dinner, or doing wash or cleaning etc. And maybe try to help with a vet bill. Things like that. And thank her for supporting you and the cats, make sure she knows how much you appreciate it. From my perspective I think she has been very supportive. I know it is hard financially but she does support them. She is really good for the cats. I can see that. She does love them even if maybe she doesn't always show it. That is why I was so surprised. She seems so supportive. But we all have days where it just happens where we kind of had it.

I totally agree. We have to keep working on it and making progress. You have made A LOT of progress. Actually, I think because things have been going well that that incident was a bit more shocking. Combine that with the holidays coming and the stress associated with that and it is understandable she had a bad reaction. So yes, we need to keep working on everything. We can never end fights, they happen among cats that love each other. I have them, my outside ferals have them. It happens especially when household stress is high. So we have to keep on working on the cats and try to help your mom anyway you can (by helping clean or doing wash or dishes etc). And always staying calm and respectful towards her. She is actually really good with her support.

I can imagine. I know how I felt so I am sure you were about a million times more. I can't imagine if I ever had to re-home one of mine (when they didn't need to be). My heart actually skipped a beat. So you have 150% of my focus to prevent that from happening. I think it is probably more managing expectations but it is about draining energy and continuing to try to manage "choak" points were they get trapped and making positive associations and making every encounter between them as positive as possible.

If it really was a real serious problem there is no way they would be distracted by food like they were. I deal with ferals and have seen real fights and almost nothing will stop them from trying to kill the other one. It is hard to explain without experiencing it but it is true.

I think you have a very good handle on the situation but let's keep working on improving it.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Haha. Yeah, sorry about that. Probably my only complaint about this site is that I can't just go back and edit any time. I would have added a comment at the top.

She was definitely more willing to listen later. At the time, no reasoning but her own made sense to her. She is a good person, but she's still learning. I am too.

I will. I'm trying to do better with the training sessions. Also, I think I'm going to harness train them after all. We had some snow the other day and I let them go out to see it. Well, I took them out in the space that we have blocked to keep them out of the basement. The backdoor is out there and I didn't want to watch all three of the at the same time, so I just took one at a time. I was surprised with the outcome. Frost was the only one who didn't even touch the snow. Ash never made it past the top step. Ember, however, not only went past the top step, but she went out into the yard. Another huge sign of her confidence building. We've let them out on the front porch a few times, but she'd rarely go more than a foot away from the door. And now she's obsessed. I've held her while letting the dog out before, but she really wants to go out now. Not quite fast enough to get by me, but she tries. Sometimes I take her with me to look out while I hold her. But I think I'm going to dig the harness out and try training her.

The cats really are doing great though. I've had all four animals on my half of the couch(big couch) with me more times in the past few days than the couple of years since I had four animals. Ash has become a snuggle bug and wants to be on or next to me frequently. Ember is coming around to the idea of him being there. Ash is also getting better with Stella. Stella is gaining trust, but is still a bit nervous. I saw Ember cuddle up to Ash for the first time in a while I think it was yesterday. Ash has groomed her a few times. Everything has been really good other than that one incident and they got over that very well.

That is ok, I should have read further.

That is good that she listened later. It is understandable at that moment she didn't. I agree, she sounds like a very good person.

Yes, keep trying. Wow. Ember. I did not expect her to be excited about going out. Just make sure she doesn't sneak out.

WOW, look at that paragraph. That is exactly the right thing. Having them enar each other without incident, enjoying themselves. Ash and Ember snuggling??? GREAT. Ash grooming her. GREAT!! That paragraph is the strongest evidence of things going well and no need to rehome. WOW!!! I LOVE to read this!!!

GREAT job!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

That is cool. I enjoy them too.

As long as you are yourself that is the key. I am sure you have written on here when you were in a good mood and a bad mood at times. But you have always come across well. Being yourself is good since you are a good person and likable.

It is too bad, I hope they change it as well because people need to feel comfortable in order to get good advice. If they get turned off before they get advice then it is a missed opportunity. I hope they change (maybe it will since your last post's responses were good).

Hahahahaha, yep, she is a normal cat. Sounds like mine.

That is so funny (how Ash handles them). I can almost see it happen. Hahahaha. THAT is funny. Good cat. Yep, when they are focused on an area etc then there probably is something there. :/ It is time where they want to come in. I know someone who borrowed a feral to rid their house of mice. They loved the cat so much it became the cat's forever home. Pretty cool though I do feel bad for the mice. :/

Hahahaha, that isn't bad. Mine go crazy often but not as much as when they were younger. :/

Well, I try not to let my mood affect how I treat others. I've been snapped at because of things not related to me and it's not fun. But talking about cats always lifts my mood!

I hope they do too. They have valuable opinions, but no one will want to listen with the way it is. They can, sometimes, be nice, but sometimes just isn't enough. I certainly understand losing your patience and there have been people on this site that I've read their posts and got irritated, but I just don't reply if I can't handle my temper. There are others here who can.

It's really funny watching his face when they move. He loves them, but he doesn't seem to quite understand them. Like just because he laid on them means they can't move anymore. I do always feel bad for the mice though. I don't know how the one in the basement died. It didn't look skinny or anything. I doubt I want to know though. I'd feel worse for it.

Ash goes crazy one to three times a day. Oddly, it often happens right after meals. That is, if he isn't looking for someone else's food. However, Ember has been playing a lot! She plays pretty hard with the laser light and then sometimes plays with the toy I try getting the boys to play with. I don't know what to do about Ash though. I tried three different toys tonight(excluding laser light). I walked through the house, tossed it around on the floor, threw it over his head... I got very little out of him.

 

[Animal Freak]

That is good. You have a great understanding of the situation. Early morning and at night are prime times for wildness because of their energy levels. Early morning after they have slept and start looking for food (hunting) and the evening (after sleeping all day) when the humans come home (excitement) and again when they hunt as they get hungry. I don't know how much those Nanny Cams are but maybe that can be an option if you Mom stays worried about during the day. I can pretty much guarantee all is fine during the day. Play is so important to drain that excess energy but your cats are harder to get to play. But even them running up and down trees etc can drain energy. Mine often get wild right when I am getting ready for bed. That nighttime burst of energy is common. Since they eat earlier and play earlier they rest a bit then they have this burst of energy then after that they settle and sleep.

Sometimes clumps of hair can also happen because the cat pulls them out themselves if they mat etc.

It sounds like just bad luck. Dribbling can happen if they get a bit scared and have a full bladder. It is VERY good that no one has gone outside of the litterbox since that incident which again tells me it wasn't that bad and they got over it. And you did feed them and they got along right after as well. That really is the tell as to whether there is a real problem.

Yes, again you have it exactly right. My guess is it is more the latter than the former but both are possibilities. I think if you can get Ash as much hydration as possible that would be best. I know it s hard on getting him to drink but adding water to his food is a great way. I even add water to wet food if I worry about a cat not drinking. I think his water intake is probably the biggest driver of his UTIs BUT I am not an expert on UTI causes.

Your Mom sounds like a very good person. And the fact she does listen is very important. It is VERY hard to understand the situation. I deal with a lot of people I hear exactly what your mom worries about all the time. She worries about their happiness which is good. You have all the knowledge now and you understand so now you have to start teaching why (which I think you are and you must be doing it well). Always be understanding and respectful. I am guessing she was stressed at that moment (and the cats may have picked up on it) and it escalated. It happens. I see it all the time. Just make sure when your mom is stressed to try to help her out whether it is with the dishes, or dinner, or doing wash or cleaning etc. And maybe try to help with a vet bill. Things like that. And thank her for supporting you and the cats, make sure she knows how much you appreciate it. From my perspective I think she has been very supportive. I know it is hard financially but she does support them. She is really good for the cats. I can see that. She does love them even if maybe she doesn't always show it. That is why I was so surprised. She seems so supportive. But we all have days where it just happens where we kind of had it.

I totally agree. We have to keep working on it and making progress. You have made A LOT of progress. Actually, I think because things have been going well that that incident was a bit more shocking. Combine that with the holidays coming and the stress associated with that and it is understandable she had a bad reaction. So yes, we need to keep working on everything. We can never end fights, they happen among cats that love each other. I have them, my outside ferals have them. It happens especially when household stress is high. So we have to keep on working on the cats and try to help your mom anyway you can (by helping clean or doing wash or dishes etc). And always staying calm and respectful towards her. She is actually really good with her support.

I can imagine. I know how I felt so I am sure you were about a million times more. I can't imagine if I ever had to re-home one of mine (when they didn't need to be). My heart actually skipped a beat. So you have 150% of my focus to prevent that from happening. I think it is probably more managing expectations but it is about draining energy and continuing to try to manage "choak" points were they get trapped and making positive associations and making every encounter between them as positive as possible.

If it really was a real serious problem there is no way they would be distracted by food like they were. I deal with ferals and have seen real fights and almost nothing will stop them from trying to kill the other one. It is hard to explain without experiencing it but it is true.

I think you have a very good handle on the situation but let's keep working on improving it.

That all sounds about right. It's always when there's something to cause energy and/or tension. We've talked about getting a camera to see what the dog does while we're gone, but it's never been important enough to spend the money on. If there's concern about what they do during the day then we might get one, but I think it's alright for now. I'm pretty confident in saying they're fine too and I'm not a confident person, so that's saying something. I am trying to get them to play! Ember plays twice a day and I want to do a training session at least every other day, preferably every day.

Yeah, considering the location it's very possible Ash was on his way to a litterbox. And I think Ember has made it pretty clear how she feels about my room and being cut off from my room. I'm definitely happy there haven't been any more issues with peeing outside the box.

I kind of thought that too though I don't like that that would mean Ash has, occasionally, gone longer with a UTI than I would like him to. Since figuring out h was prone to UTIs, we usually make a vet trip the first time he pees outside a box. Always by the second except for this past time in which the second take occurred about a week after the first. I do add a little water to his food in the morning when he gets a bit of dry though he barely gets any dry at all. Less than a tablespoon probably. And he gets glucosamine which is suppose to help coat the bladder and prevent UTIs.

She does care about them, but she's definitely still learning. I had to learn to and I've brought that influence into the house. She wasn't always as empathic towards them as she is now. She never intended on having three cats though, let alone three cats and a dog. Sometimes she wonders if she made the right decision and I get that. I've wondered the same. But it's easier for me to push past that because I have the support on this site and have read about situations much worse working out. We definitely ended up with more than we expected and we're on the border of what we can handle. I believe hoarding begins when you can no longer take care of your animals, not when you reach a certain number. One more and we'd probably be there.

It was certainly difficult to even consider giving up Ember. It's even harder in moments like these where she's draped over my arm making typing difficult. She's just too precious. I love the boys and I wouldn't ever want to get rid of them either, but Ember is something else. I don't know how she'd handle being moved and having everything familiar ripped away from her. I do agree it's more in our expectations than in anything wrong with the cats. I learned that when I opened myself up to them and their lessons, but it takes time to fully get used to letting go of expectations. I would like to find ways to help get rid of these dead ends and tight spots. Maybe I could find a small, thin platform for the hallway? It'd have to be pretty narrow though. And maybe one at each end.

I don't even want to imagine what a real fight would be like. It's scary enough as it is!

 

[Animal Freak]

That is ok, I should have read further.

That is good that she listened later. It is understandable at that moment she didn't. I agree, she sounds like a very good person.

Yes, keep trying. Wow. Ember. I did not expect her to be excited about going out. Just make sure she doesn't sneak out.

WOW, look at that paragraph. That is exactly the right thing. Having them enar each other without incident, enjoying themselves. Ash and Ember snuggling??? GREAT. Ash grooming her. GREAT!! That paragraph is the strongest evidence of things going well and no need to rehome. WOW!!! I LOVE to read this!!!

GREAT job!!!

I didn't expect Ember to be the one to be excited about it either! I was amazed. She was the one I worried about the most, especially since I was cutting her off from the part of the house she was familiar with. I will be careful though. Fortunately, she'd have to get through two doors to get out and there is a privacy fence. I only worry about when it's dark and I might not see her. She doesn't really seem like she's "sneaking" though. She's not even really running or trying to force her way through. And she doesn't try to go out when I'm going back in. I don't know if it's because she knows she goes with me or because she knows that means the door is shut, but she always backs off when I go into the house. I'm hoping harness training them will give them another mental stimulation and a little more exercise though.

The progress they've made just in the past week is really astounding. They've come so far in such little time. And Ash is getting snugglier and snugglier. I can't sit for more than five minutes without someone getting on my lap. I doubt Ember appreciates the extra competition.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Well, I try not to let my mood affect how I treat others. I've been snapped at because of things not related to me and it's not fun. But talking about cats always lifts my mood!

I hope they do too. They have valuable opinions, but no one will want to listen with the way it is. They can, sometimes, be nice, but sometimes just isn't enough. I certainly understand losing your patience and there have been people on this site that I've read their posts and got irritated, but I just don't reply if I can't handle my temper. There are others here who can.

It's really funny watching his face when they move. He loves them, but he doesn't seem to quite understand them. Like just because he laid on them means they can't move anymore. I do always feel bad for the mice though. I don't know how the one in the basement died. It didn't look skinny or anything. I doubt I want to know though. I'd feel worse for it.

Ash goes crazy one to three times a day. Oddly, it often happens right after meals. That is, if he isn't looking for someone else's food. However, Ember has been playing a lot! She plays pretty hard with the laser light and then sometimes plays with the toy I try getting the boys to play with. I don't know what to do about Ash though. I tried three different toys tonight(excluding laser light). I walked through the house, tossed it around on the floor, threw it over his head... I got very little out of him.

That is a good way to be.

Yes, hopefully. Yes, the style is almost as important as the substance. Hopefully they learn that and improve as people do need help.

Hahahaha, I wish I could see that. I can imagine how funny it must be. He views them as friends rather than food. I feel bad for mice too. My ferals will eat mice and rabbits and squirrels and birds etc. They get sick of their food and it is in their instinct. I just don't like that but I can't stop them. Yes, it is better not to know or to see it. It is awful to see.

It is interesting that he goes wild after eating. Hmmmmmm. Sometimes they get wild before using the litter. It is GREAT that Ember is playing a lot. Are the others watching her play? Try to make the toy act like prey to Ash. So imagine it is a mouse, movement then halt, then around a corner. Really peak his interest. Once they get in that hunting mode they will but sometimes it can be more difficult for some cats to get into that mood. But try to make it act like a mouse. Those movements, halting movements. And make the toy disappear around corners.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That all sounds about right. It's always when there's something to cause energy and/or tension. We've talked about getting a camera to see what the dog does while we're gone, but it's never been important enough to spend the money on. If there's concern about what they do during the day then we might get one, but I think it's alright for now. I'm pretty confident in saying they're fine too and I'm not a confident person, so that's saying something. I am trying to get them to play! Ember plays twice a day and I want to do a training session at least every other day, preferably every day.

Yeah, considering the location it's very possible Ash was on his way to a litterbox. And I think Ember has made it pretty clear how she feels about my room and being cut off from my room. I'm definitely happy there haven't been any more issues with peeing outside the box.

I kind of thought that too though I don't like that that would mean Ash has, occasionally, gone longer with a UTI than I would like him to. Since figuring out h was prone to UTIs, we usually make a vet trip the first time he pees outside a box. Always by the second except for this past time in which the second take occurred about a week after the first. I do add a little water to his food in the morning when he gets a bit of dry though he barely gets any dry at all. Less than a tablespoon probably. And he gets glucosamine which is suppose to help coat the bladder and prevent UTIs.

She does care about them, but she's definitely still learning. I had to learn to and I've brought that influence into the house. She wasn't always as empathic towards them as she is now. She never intended on having three cats though, let alone three cats and a dog. Sometimes she wonders if she made the right decision and I get that. I've wondered the same. But it's easier for me to push past that because I have the support on this site and have read about situations much worse working out. We definitely ended up with more than we expected and we're on the border of what we can handle. I believe hoarding begins when you can no longer take care of your animals, not when you reach a certain number. One more and we'd probably be there.

It was certainly difficult to even consider giving up Ember. It's even harder in moments like these where she's draped over my arm making typing difficult. She's just too precious. I love the boys and I wouldn't ever want to get rid of them either, but Ember is something else. I don't know how she'd handle being moved and having everything familiar ripped away from her. I do agree it's more in our expectations than in anything wrong with the cats. I learned that when I opened myself up to them and their lessons, but it takes time to fully get used to letting go of expectations. I would like to find ways to help get rid of these dead ends and tight spots. Maybe I could find a small, thin platform for the hallway? It'd have to be pretty narrow though. And maybe one at each end.

I don't even want to imagine what a real fight would be like. It's scary enough as it is!

Yeah, I don't think it is necessary (a cam) either. Only if your mom is really close to rehoming then I would to prove everything is fine during the day. If there was a problem it would be all the time and really crazy. I don't think there is an issue at all. Yes, cats pick up on extra energy or stress and can then act out. So that is why we try to be as chill as possible and also burn excess energy through play to drain that excess energy out. Every household has stress but trying to just handle it as best as possible is always helpful.

I think it was just one of those bad coincidences. Those very well could be the cause. If it was really an issue there would be more litter box issues. Thank goodness they are not having litter box issues.

I am not an expert on UTIs but I think you know when he would have one. And I think if he had one he would be going pretty much everytime or at least once a day for a while. I don't think you have let him with a UTI for longer than it should be since we have been talking. It sounds like he is actually doing well avoiding UTIs. That is good on adding water and I didn't know that about glucosamine. Interesting.

Yes, I think she has been amazingly supportive. I know what you mean, you don't intend to have X number but it happens. And then you learn how to deal with all of them. And adding one more is exponentially more complex. I think you both have done an amazing job. You are giving them great lives, a great home. Yes, it is not easy but there is no question in my mind you both have done an amazing job. I think you are past the difficult times and it will be much easier going forward.

Oh, I know. I brought in a cat that took a year to introduce once. I had those same questions and doubts and fears. Loving all the cats but fearing it may never work and wondering what is best. And I have had ferals I wanted to bring in but couldn't and they had shorter lives. Emotionally it is very difficult. Ember needs you that makes it even more difficult. I have a cat that is the same. She needs me. And to think about rehoming a cat like that is really difficult. That is why we have to do everything we can to prevent that. Yes, having realistic expectations is really important. I have a lot of experience with cats so I have seen it all so mine are different than people with less experience or more good experiences.

Yes, trying to eliminate those tight places in anyway possible (giving multiple escape routes high, on the ground, each side etc) is really important. Try to think creatively and think about how they might move. I love cat shelving so a cat can go up and along the wall while another one is on the ground avoiding the confrontation but not everyone can do that. Cats can balance on thin so that is a good idea so long as no human hurts themselves on it.

They are awful. When ferals are fighting it can be extremely serious. I have broken up too many in my life. That is another reason why I TNR.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I didn't expect Ember to be the one to be excited about it either! I was amazed. She was the one I worried about the most, especially since I was cutting her off from the part of the house she was familiar with. I will be careful though. Fortunately, she'd have to get through two doors to get out and there is a privacy fence. I only worry about when it's dark and I might not see her. She doesn't really seem like she's "sneaking" though. She's not even really running or trying to force her way through. And she doesn't try to go out when I'm going back in. I don't know if it's because she knows she goes with me or because she knows that means the door is shut, but she always backs off when I go into the house. I'm hoping harness training them will give them another mental stimulation and a little more exercise though.

The progress they've made just in the past week is really astounding. They've come so far in such little time. And Ash is getting snugglier and snugglier. I can't sit for more than five minutes without someone getting on my lap. I doubt Ember appreciates the extra competition.

It is amazing. I am surprised. Ember. It sounds like she is pretty good but cats can be tricky and if they get out. I haven't harnessed trained but I know people who have and it worked for them. But I just don't know enough about it. Mine back off from the door when I come in the house as well. They will have their front paws up on the door looking out at me and then when I come they run into the house. That is good. But just be careful as they can be tricky.

THAT is fantastic and it tells me that there are really no issues. Any issue is just a moment and nothing existential or systemic. It is cute that Ash is getting snuggly. When they want to be close that is a really good sign. And if they are close and enjoying it together it is especially great as it builds trust. Just make sure you continue to spoil Ember and give her attention. And having her come up with him around and giving love is usually really great to build trust and confidence. Just make sure that they are relaxed and it will be a good experience with no negative stuff. I do that all the time in intros though I don't recommend it for most people.

Keep up the great work!!

 

[Animal Freak]

That is a good way to be.

Yes, hopefully. Yes, the style is almost as important as the substance. Hopefully they learn that and improve as people do need help.

Hahahaha, I wish I could see that. I can imagine how funny it must be. He views them as friends rather than food. I feel bad for mice too. My ferals will eat mice and rabbits and squirrels and birds etc. They get sick of their food and it is in their instinct. I just don't like that but I can't stop them. Yes, it is better not to know or to see it. It is awful to see.

It is interesting that he goes wild after eating. Hmmmmmm. Sometimes they get wild before using the litter. It is GREAT that Ember is playing a lot. Are the others watching her play? Try to make the toy act like prey to Ash. So imagine it is a mouse, movement then halt, then around a corner. Really peak his interest. Once they get in that hunting mode they will but sometimes it can be more difficult for some cats to get into that mood. But try to make it act like a mouse. Those movements, halting movements. And make the toy disappear around corners.

It is amusing watching Ash play with the mice. The poor things get so scared though. If he keeps them long enough, they do eventually die and it seems like a terrible death. But it is somewhat reassuring. I'd like to have rats again someday and, while I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to introduce the rats to the cats, at least I'd know my cats aren't going to kill them if they get out. It's always sad to see an animal kill another animal, but it is part of nature. At least ferals kill to eat. I had an outdoor cat when I was younger that would hunt. She'd leave baby moles by our steps and we had a cardinal wing in our driveway once. But, funnily enough, I caught her with a frog once and she was just barely holding onto it. It actually squirmed out of her mouth before I could even get to it. She hadn't harmed it at all.

He is an interesting cat. Ash has been doing his best to ignore anything that involves a toy. Sometimes I swear he's doing it intentionally. I did try the halting movements tonight. It got his attention and I could tell he was in a playful mood, but it just didn't quite push him into it enough. It was an improvement, but he still didn't play much. I can barely get him to look at the toy to see what it's doing, so that alone was hard enough.

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah, I don't think it is necessary (a cam) either. Only if your mom is really close to rehoming then I would to prove everything is fine during the day. If there was a problem it would be all the time and really crazy. I don't think there is an issue at all. Yes, cats pick up on extra energy or stress and can then act out. So that is why we try to be as chill as possible and also burn excess energy through play to drain that excess energy out. Every household has stress but trying to just handle it as best as possible is always helpful.

I think it was just one of those bad coincidences. Those very well could be the cause. If it was really an issue there would be more litter box issues. Thank goodness they are not having litter box issues.

I am not an expert on UTIs but I think you know when he would have one. And I think if he had one he would be going pretty much everytime or at least once a day for a while. I don't think you have let him with a UTI for longer than it should be since we have been talking. It sounds like he is actually doing well avoiding UTIs. That is good on adding water and I didn't know that about glucosamine. Interesting.

Yes, I think she has been amazingly supportive. I know what you mean, you don't intend to have X number but it happens. And then you learn how to deal with all of them. And adding one more is exponentially more complex. I think you both have done an amazing job. You are giving them great lives, a great home. Yes, it is not easy but there is no question in my mind you both have done an amazing job. I think you are past the difficult times and it will be much easier going forward.

Oh, I know. I brought in a cat that took a year to introduce once. I had those same questions and doubts and fears. Loving all the cats but fearing it may never work and wondering what is best. And I have had ferals I wanted to bring in but couldn't and they had shorter lives. Emotionally it is very difficult. Ember needs you that makes it even more difficult. I have a cat that is the same. She needs me. And to think about rehoming a cat like that is really difficult. That is why we have to do everything we can to prevent that. Yes, having realistic expectations is really important. I have a lot of experience with cats so I have seen it all so mine are different than people with less experience or more good experiences.

Yes, trying to eliminate those tight places in anyway possible (giving multiple escape routes high, on the ground, each side etc) is really important. Try to think creatively and think about how they might move. I love cat shelving so a cat can go up and along the wall while another one is on the ground avoiding the confrontation but not everyone can do that. Cats can balance on thin so that is a good idea so long as no human hurts themselves on it.

They are awful. When ferals are fighting it can be extremely serious. I have broken up too many in my life. That is another reason why I TNR.

We'll certainly have to keep a camera in mind. I think we can manage for now though. We get through our stress and so do the cats. We just need to manage it a bit better.

Ash peed on a towel today. Right when I thought we were done with that too. I don't know what to think though. Stress? Probably not. Beginnings of a UTI? Too close to these past incidents to really be sure. A preference for towels? But he doesn't always do it. Something else entirely? Who knows?

Oh, yeah. If he had had a UTI it would be very bad by now. I don't think we waited anywhere near this long before taking him to the vet even the very first time and he'd barely been urinating at all and it had been bloody by the time we got him to the vet. He'd gotten so desperate he'd pee on anything other than just the floor or furniture. Bags, towels, anything laying on the floor.

It definitely got a lot more complex than either of us expected. Worth it, if you ask me, but definitely more complex. I couldn't regret keeping her. Not if I tried. If I hadn't kept her, I wouldn't have known what having this relationship, this bond, is like. Maybe Coal would have been easier. He certainly had been a sweetie. More like his mother. But it wouldn't have been the same.

I've had a very difficult time thinking of rehoming Ember. If I never had to do it again it would be too soon. I think I needed her. She helped shape my beliefs, helped me open up to the different personalities of animals. If I want to work with animals for the rest of my life then I'll need the lessons she's taught me.

Yeah, it'll definitely have to be something narrow. I don't know if we'll be able to find anything. I'll try though. It seems like that hallway causes all sorts of trouble. It really is a tight spot, especially since you reach the end and there's three rooms, but no other way to get back to where you came from.

 

[Animal Freak]

It is amazing. I am surprised. Ember. It sounds like she is pretty good but cats can be tricky and if they get out. I haven't harnessed trained but I know people who have and it worked for them. But I just don't know enough about it. Mine back off from the door when I come in the house as well. They will have their front paws up on the door looking out at me and then when I come they run into the house. That is good. But just be careful as they can be tricky.

THAT is fantastic and it tells me that there are really no issues. Any issue is just a moment and nothing existential or systemic. It is cute that Ash is getting snuggly. When they want to be close that is a really good sign. And if they are close and enjoying it together it is especially great as it builds trust. Just make sure you continue to spoil Ember and give her attention. And having her come up with him around and giving love is usually really great to build trust and confidence. Just make sure that they are relaxed and it will be a good experience with no negative stuff. I do that all the time in intros though I don't recommend it for most people.

Keep up the great work!!

She definitely surprised me too. I've never harness trained either. I got a harness a while ago thinking I'd do it, but I kept going back and forth. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to go about it exactly. I don't really want to take them out back since that's where the dog goes to the bathroom, but I don't want them trying to dart out the front door. I mean, I guess they'd do it already if they were going to. We've let them go out on the front porch and they will go out if given the time to. There's also dogs, but I haven't actually seen one come down quite this far and we wouldn't be leaving the yard.

I did find the harness though and put it on two of the three cats. I ran out of time to get it on Frost. Ember was first and then Ash. They both did surprisingly well. They did most of the work putting their heads through(using treats) and they kind of slunk around for the first couple of minutes, but adjusted quickly. Ember kept crawling under my legs, so I don't think she liked it, but she did well and I'm sure I drove her crazy because I didn't know how it went on and had to adjust it.

Ash has gotten so snuggly so quickly it actually almost worries me. It's like a switch flipped and he decided he wanted to be a lap cat. I've had him and Frost on my lap which is quite a lot of cat. I had Stella next to me, Ash on me leaning onto Stella(he's never done that), and Frost squished in next to Ash. Ember is still unsure of this new arrangement. She does find time to lay on my lap when he isn't there though and we always snuggle at night. She's on my lap right now sleeping though I don't know how since I'm jostling her with every move.