Struggling With Play Time

[Animal Freak]

I love routines too, but it seems life doesn't want me to have one. I keep having to add things and move things around.

I have found it to be quite difficult. Even watching it play out, things often happen in a matter of seconds.

That seems about right. I wish I knew what started it all though. And now we have the added problem of the storage room door not staying open, so Ash can't get in there in time. He gets stuck against that door.

I got lucky with that though. They aren't usually that open to being petted and being that close to each other. Especially not Ember. I was surprised she got over it so quickly, but it didn't last. No, Ember doesn't seem to care much about growling or hissing. The good part of that is that she used to attack Ash instantly if he growled, even if she wasn't so much as in the same room as him.

I always thought it was odd that she wouldn't react to Frost's hisses and growls, but would go after Ash for doing it even if it wasn't aimed at her. They, too, get along fairly often, but it's definitely worse. His crabbiness has been going on for some time now, but it's kind of come and gone in cycles. Sometimes it would happen once or twice a day, sometimes one or twice a week. However, it's never been as bad as it has been lately.

It's just difficult because I want them to live happy, stress free lives. I stress easily and know what it's like to live with that. I don't want the same for them. I don't want them to have to feel fear or have to watch over their shoulder in their own home.

I think I understood everything just fine.

By the way, I keep forgetting to ask, when do you think I should worry about them being cold? Our house has been everywhere from sixty degrees F to seventy degrees. It doesn't bother me too much, but they're ears and nose and feet get really cold. Ember is laying on and next to me more than usual and she tolerates more from me. Normally, I can barely move a centimeter without her taking off. Now I pretty much have to actually get up before she leaves. She's very persistent and seems to always be looking for a way under the covers. But at least she comes to me for warmth. I worry about Ash whose two favorite rooms are the coldest.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I know exactly what you mean!! I try but at times it is so hard to do.

Yes, so true. It happens so fast and then our mind is on to the next thing that follows it. All we can do is our best and over time we see consistencies which helps in identifying what is happening. My ferals yesterday weer really fighting when I was ready to feed them, I guess I saw what happened before but I was trying to break it up. And I couldn't tell you what really happened before even though I did kind of see it.

Oh my. Is there any way to prop the door open? Putting a door stop in there? So he can get in there? Anytime a cat gets territory (and territory that is confidence building etc) closed off then it can be destabilizing.

I take that as a really positive thing then (petting them near each other). That is a great positive. And again rebounding quickly and not caring about hissing and growling (for the most part) is good. And the fact she doesn't immediately attack him is a positive. There are a lot of positives in their relationship even though there are some incidents.

I have found a lot of times that the new cat will trust the existing cats more and sooner than the existing cats trusting the new cat. This is very common as the existing cats have territory being "invaded" while the new cat is not "defending" territory but expanding their territory.

It could be that she is intimidated by Frost more than Ash. The way he carries himself etc. So it is kind of like "I wont mess with him" while Ash may seem easier to mess with.

I wonder why Frost is more crabby. Any ideas?

Agreed. But it sounds like they have very good lives. Sure there are some issues but they also have a lot of great times. Don't worry, we'll get there.

Great.

That is a great question. Cats love heat but they can tolerate cool temps. Cool temps can cause issues with their joints etc but typically they can handle fairly low temps. I would try to get some warm bedding where they can curl up and of course they can cuddle with you. They do get more cuddly when it is cold but for any adverse effect it would have to be pretty cool (30s, 40s I would guess). But because Ash has some issues with his joints he probably needs more warmth. Warm beading and of course Frost could help. They can also go under blankets which can be warm.

 

[Animal Freak]

It's definitely hard to keep up with what's going on. Even if I see it, my mind doesn't always process it and I have bad memory to begin with. It can certainly be difficult before they're fed too. Tensions run a bit high then.

Yeah, we got it propped open. I didn't realize it at first, but I saw him get stuck there and tried to open it, but it just closed again. My mom found out how to get the doors to stop squeaking, but it seemed to mess them up. Mine opens itself up if it's not pretty much completely closed and I've no idea how it does it.

Oh, for sure. And they get along very well as cats go. Better than I get along with most people. In a way, I think that almost makes it more frustrating though. I know they can and do get along. But I've gotten somewhat used to it (I'm not sure if that's a good thing), so I'm a lot calmer. I don't usually jump up and go running when I hear them anymore. It doesn't seem to matter how fast I move, they're already separated by the time I get there.

That makes sense though I've always considered Ember the untrusting one. There could certainly be some wariness left in Ash, but the boys did really well with letting Ember in, especially with being introduced to two kittens and with their vicious mother in the other room.

That could be it. I've always wondered why just one of them. Of course, her mother was the opposite. She'd run right past Ash to get to Frost. But maybe they're reasons for fighting were different. Midnight was fighting because she didn't trust them and wanted to protect herself and her babies, so she went after the bigger threat. I have a hard time picturing Frost as a threat, but he's definitely the more confident one. Whereas Ember is going for the smaller threat.

I have no clue. Maybe the cold? It seems to have faded a bit. I've only heard one hiss today. I don't know about him though. He's totally fine with Ash, Stella, and every human he comes across. It's just Ember.

Well, we've been keeping it in the mid to upper sixties. There's two dog beds in the living room and the dog kennel in the dining room which has a thick crochet blanket in it. There's a few blankets on the couch. I got a couple out specifically for them when I came home and it was sixty one degrees and Ash and Frost were cuddling in my spot. And we recently got this little pop-up bed that makes a bit of a cave. I've seen all of them in it and will probably get one or two more at some point in time. Ash has been spending more time out of the storage room. And we have a space heater in the living room that we use when we're in there and a small plug-in heater in the bathroom that runs most of the evening. I've worried about Ash's arthritis, but he's been letting me brush his legs, if a bit unwillingly. He doesn't go under blankets though and isn't much of a snuggler.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Totally agree. Yes, before feeding the excitement/energy can get up there and stuff can happen.

That is good. I guess the doors must be so smooth (the hinges) that there is no friction to hold it and if it is sloped a little then gravity takes over.

Yes. They do get along well. That is good that you are calmer and understand that though it may sound bad their intent isn't to actually inflict harm. If they break it up before you get there then they know it isn't good. But sometimes cats just can't resist getting into it. :/

From what I can gather Ember was more untrusting (again common for a new cat) but has really gotten to trust more. Sure she is still probably cautious but she feels secure in "her" territory now though she may still be cautious (a little) with the other cats. It is hard to explain how territorial insecurity can be unsettling on its own without factoring in the new cat. But for Ash he might be still adjusting and then a few negative encounters (that sound misunderstood but are real for Ash) with Ember cause a little more unsettled feelings. I always say the more confident a cat the more likely they are to accept and be accepted and also the more territorially secure they are. It is really two pronged. Not sure if I am explaining it right but I can understand the situation you have (even though I can't exactly put it into words).

I think that is right. Midnight probably got the "vibe" that Frost was the bigger threat. Cats can sense certain things (like maybe how Ash interacted with Frost and how Ash communication (body language, looks, etc) with Midnight. I see it all the time that some cats accept others more readily than others. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. I have ferals and see this all the time. My one feral HATES this one cat but accepts this other one that is at times very aggressive to this other cat. It is astonishing how the dynamics work.

I will say I think Ember probably is more about play with Ash and Ash is misinterpreting it. I see that all the time as well.

It could be but I don't think the cold. It could be the cold causes some discomfort of some kind but he doesn't have the issues Ash does. It very well could be he sees how Ember is with Ash and senses Ash's emotions and then he doesn't like it and then takes it out on Ember. Cats are very complex, more than most people think. It is so hard to know exactly but anytime things are "out of kilter" it can cause crabbiness.

That sounds very good for them. Yes, Ash would be the concern but if he was cold he would go towards heat or go under the blankets etc. I think you would know if he was too cold. It is great he is letting you brush his legs!! Does he cuddle with Frost?

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah, except I banged my leg on the thing we're using to prop the door open. It really hurt. So I need to remember that's there. My door goes the opposite way though, so our house must be peaked in the center. It's weird.

It's definitely easier to stay calm now. It's a bit tiring, but it's not as terrifying. Well, until it happens in the middle of the night and wakes me up. That's pretty scary. I don't wake easily either, but I will to that.

You explain things fine. It's all still a bit weird and confusing, but I think that's just sort of the way it is with cats. You can try to explain it all you want, but sometimes you just have to accept that it is. I learned that lesson a bit late, so I guess I'm still getting used to it. I do understand where Ash's misunderstanding comes from. Of course he doesn't want to trust her after all the times she's attacked him for reasons other than play. The hard part is teaching him to trust her again, especially when the problems keep occurring. I'll continue trying, of course, but it's certainly a vicious cycle to get stuck in.

Midnight seemed to sense something, alright, but she never took the time to observe them. There was no witnessing how they behaved. If she got even the tiniest glance of them, she attacked. I do somewhat wish I had the knowledge I have now back then. I could have tried to work with her more and convince her to be more trusting. But at the same time, I'm so happy I ended up with Ember. None of it turned out how I had actually wanted it to, but it still worked out for the best.

They are definitely complex, that's for sure. Figuring out what's going on in their head is like trying to solve a riddle sometimes. Fortunately, it seems to be calming down a bit.

My mom ordered another little cave/bed/thing and we'll probably got a third sometime. They all seem to enjoy it and their interest has lasted a few days. I think that might actually be a record. Excluding their cat trees, of course. I still worry about them being cold though even though I know they can probably handle more than I can. I just hate the idea of them being at all uncomfortable. Ash and Frost are honestly a lot less cuddly than they used to be. Ember cuddles up to Ash sometimes in the winter and he'll do anything to lay at the top of the cat tree, even if it means laying on her. However, their relationship has been a bit iffy lately. Maybe they'll start cuddling again.

Today seemed to be a pretty good day for them. They got along and had a blast with their little cave thing. It went all over the living room, especially with Frost jumping in and out of it. They were playing in it, with it, and with each other with one in it and one outside of it. That includes Ash playing with Ember and Ember playing with Frost.

However, things started falling apart again. It wasn't our typical situation though. Rather, I was talking to my mom in her room and Ash got in the bed. I was standing at the edge petting him. Frost got up and, for some reason, was sniffing right at the base of his tail. He was really pressing his nose in and I think he might have bitten Ash. Ash jerked around and hissed and started growling at him. Ember came in to see what was going on and Ash growled at her, but she was able to bring herself to walk away and left the room. I got Ash to calm down fairly quickly. Frost stayed where he was, but you could see he was thinking about pushing his luck again. And Ember came back in the room shortly after. Ash started growling at her again, but I got him to stop. However, he was wary of her after that, like she was the one who had done something to him. He kept looking for her even when she wasn't there and once he even started moving like he was going to go after her, but I lifted my hand in front of him and he stopped. Eventually they all settled and I left with Ember going with me(she always stands guard in the doorway when I'm in there), but Ash came out and she got all tense with her head low, her back slightly arched, and her tail starting to poof out. I tried walking up to her slowly, but of course she began moving the same time I did. I did get to say her name and touch her back right before she went after him and he got to slip away into the bathroom. After that I was able to distract her fairly easily with a toy, but she got tense when he came out and would stop every time he moved. They did get over it though.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Sorry to hear that. I hope your knee is getting better. Hmmm, usually it tilts one way but maybe?

That is good. Yeah, we get to know when something is just something and when it is really something. I don't think your cats want to hurt each other so unless it would really escalate it shouldn't be that bad of a problem but it is something we want to lessen.

Good. Yeah, it is but as you get more experience you understand "cat ways" a lot more. But of course sometimes it is just them being cats. Getting them to trust can happen pretty fast. The more they are together without incident and the more confidence they get and the more positive association they have the better it gets. Keep working on it, you will get there.

Yes, I have seen that many times. It really is having the knowledge and desire to get cats to get along. That is why the site is here to transfer experience. Ember is special. That is great that it has worked out.

So true but as you get more experience you'll understand them more (but it is hard to fully understand them). So good to hear it is calming down, you must be doing things right.

That is great that they are getting another bed like that. Cats love those. Yeah, cats are resilient and they will get through it. And it may just bring them closer. Which is good.

WOW!!! THAT is GREAT!!! That tells me all will work out. Sure they may have disagreements or misunderstandings but if they can get along for a minute they will get along. GREAT!!

Well, I didn't expect that next paragraph. Well, that isn't too bad. The timing was unfortunate but it sounds like it ended up ok. I would be surprised if Frost bit him. But it sounds like a misunderstanding and because there is caution or a lack of total trust between Ash and Ember tensions went up. Sounds like Frost totally trusted Ash and Ash did after telling Frost to knock it off. You handled it well and it sounds like the tension was defused. Good job.

 

[Animal Freak]

Yep. You can only panic so many times before you realize it isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. If they haven't hurt each other yet, it's unlikely they'll start.

I've definitely come a long way in understanding them. Admittedly, I wasn't raised to respect them. It was something I had to learn on my own. So it took some time, but I'm figuring it all out.

Well they can get to trusting each other pretty quickly, but there's always something that triggers the attacks all over again. They do seem to be doing okay, but it seems like every time I get my hopes up something happens.

I am happy I found this site. It's helped me learn a lot. I wish I had found it a long time ago. But better late than never, I suppose. Now I have all that information and don't have to make the same mistakes over again.

I'm not sure that I'm really doing much of anything. They do a lot of it on their own.

The other bed isn't as nice and so far I've only seen Ash in it. It's flimsier and the top doesn't completely cover the bottom. So far they still prefer the first.

Oh yes, even with what happened afterwards, seeing them play like that reassured me that things aren't as bad as I thought. They were really seeming more distant than usual with each other, but after getting the new bed they did start getting along better.

No, it wasn't too bad. It was just weird. I wasn't worried about it since it was more of a one time thing rather than our usual issues. I don't think Frost bit him out of aggression. It would be playful if anything. And he does go for the private areas when playing so it wouldn't be that unusual. The only thing out of the norm is that he didn't start a wrestling match before doing so.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Very true.

I think you understand them really well. And you respect them which is the most important. Your animals are in good hands.

That is so common. But there is a fundamental base level of trust between them. When that exists one doesn't have to worry too much. They can get into it but they will not try to really hurt the other one. If you saw my two ferals you would be shocked and scared. It can look really really bad but they know not to hurt the other one. They get angry but there is that fundamental respect, trust and love. I still try to break it up but when they get that way it last a few seconds before I can break it up. Then they rub on each other and eat together. Go figure. My inside cats who love each other, eat together, cuddle, sleep together, groom each other they sometimes get into it. It just happens. The key is to understand what is really going on. Is it just expressing anger or displeasure or if it is an existential threat. If a cat feels like the other one wants to kill them then it can escalate quickly. But usually you know that in the case between cats.

Me too. This site is really fantastic. It saves lives. I wish I had this site also but of course the internet didn't exist at that time!!! It has really matured in the past year or so. I look for people with issues and they are already answered by the time I get there. It is great.

I think you do way more than you realize. It can be not only overt actions but also subtle actions. Just loving and taking care and giving them confidence they are secure and loved is a big deal.

I am sure it is still a nice bed. Ash must like it which is great.

Yes, it is that bond that is there even when they don't always show it. To be focused on something else while together is a great thing as it builds trust and confidence. Anytime they are together in a positive way it is a confidence and trust builder.

Yes, they do stuff like that. And some cats do it a lot and some don't do it at all. Yeah, it sounded like playful. Yes, it is different but cats do stuff like that. My feral outside LOVES to bite (and wrestle). The other one wrestles but never bites. It is just how they are. The key is always how they act after that. Ash and Frost were fine. So that tells us it is more play. Cats play (or tease) in such different ways.

 

[Animal Freak]

Cats really are amazing. I don't think humans could have a healthy relationship where they get into it like that and then just all over a sudden forgive each other and get along. It's terrible in one way that cats do have those disagreements and those disagreements cause fights even if they aren't bad, but at the same time their ability to forgive is amazing. It's a trait most people lack. I know I do.

It really is a wonderful site. I don't think I could say enough good about it and I'm not usually like that with sites. Honestly, I usually go pretty much unnoticed both online and off, but here I found a place with people who are willing to help me without judgment. That's pretty rare. And the response rate is fantastic. If I post anywhere else, I get impatient after waiting a couple of hours, so in that way it might not be such a good thing.

Well, I certainly love them. Maybe a little less when they're walking on the stove and counter and ignoring me calling from them to get down(Ember ), but I still love them.

It's fine, but it's hard for them to actually get inside it.

I would feel a lot better if I saw them snuggling though. Ash used to lay on Ember when he wanted to be at the top of the cat tree and she was already there, and it's getting cold so this is when I would find them curled up together on my bed. That's been the biggest difference. They just don't do that anymore.

Frost is weird. He taught the other two to target those private areas too. Their relationship I don't worry about though. They get along fine even if they aren't as close as they used to be. Not exactly encouraging that Ash took what Frost did out on Ember, but it could have been a lot worse and I know that. I'm happy it wasn't.

 

[calicosrspecial]

They really are. Well, some humans do and it depends on the degree of the disagreement (though how healthy the relationship is can be debated). Sometimes when a human is made at something they take it out on their loved ones because they are there or they know the other will not take it personal because they love each other etc. It really depends on the intent. And of course we sometimes say and do things in the heat of the moment we don't mean. Forgiveness when deserved is a good thing. Though I too am not always good at that. But cats are amazing and I am so glad they can love and trust and realize the true intent of those incidences.

Agreed. Hahahaha, yes, it does spoil us with the fast responses.

Hahahaha, agreed!! Or when they walk all over you in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep. or ........................ But you are so right, the love is strong and really special.

Is it? How come it is hard to get inside?

That you see. Sometimes cats act differently when the parent is around and when they are not. And they go in phases were they drift apart and then get closer. Mine are really close since I got back but before they were more apart. Sometimes when they feel less secure with their parent they get more clingy to each other. It is hard to always know and it is complex but there are sometimes reasons and the more secure they feel I think the less they need each other (or warm).

Yes, cats learn from others. Mine (the brother and sister) have drifted apart and gotten closer multiple times. Lately they have been very close (she was just grooming him) but a year ago they were distant. It happens. Ash redirected his aggression. It happens but often times they take it out on the one they don't fear so it could be a positive....................... I am glad it wasn't worse too!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, the disagreement would have to be pretty severe for it to come done to a fight (I hope) with humans whereas cats can attack a bit quicker, but even with just an argument people oftentimes hold a grudge. People don't usually fight and then go back to being best of friends twenty minutes later, sometimes sooner. Cats really are quite good at forgiving each other.

Yes, then too. Which has been happening more often with Ember. She barely spends more than five minutes off my bed at night until 5:30a.m. anymore and sometimes she walks over my side, kneading and purring. She's also been on the stove more! I've seen her up there three times in two days and that's not something she usually does. If she gets up there, it's because there's food up there. But there wasn't any food up there.

Well, there's not much to get inside of. The top of it droops really far back so half the base is exposed. It's also a bit thick and I'm not sure if they want to move it to get under it. Like Ember loves being under the covers, but she actually prefers to not have them physically on her. Her favorite spot is under my knees when I have my knees drawn up where the blanket isn't laying on her. So she probably wouldn't want to have the heavier top of the bed on her.

I've definitely watched them all evolve over time, but the timing seems a bit much to be a coincidence. It wasn't that long ago Ash was laying on top of Ember. And Ember loves her warmth. She comes to me first, yes, but it was usually when I got home that I'd find them curled up together in my bed. They seem to be in a good place right now though and I'd be happy if it stayed that way. I just worry those subtle signs mean that their peace is dangling by a thread and it won't take much to break it.

I guess that's one way to look at it, but she was pretty scary in the moment. You could tell she was ready to fight if she felt she needed to. So far that's been the only real issue. Today she did suddenly arch her back when Ash was walking in her direction and she slapped at him when he jumped up on a shelf right next to her, but it was minor. It's still kind of weird seeing the transition from calm to tense. It's not like Ash did anything, but something set that trigger off.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cats are really good and I think really good at knowing the intent of the disagreement and like you said forgiving. I see it all the time. I am so glad they are.

Yep, so familiar. The stove is not good. I wonder why she is going up there? You may want to consider getting one of those air deterrent things. They puff some air and scare the cat (and it is harmless) and the cats usually learn to stay away.

Ahhhhhh, I understand. Yeah, mine don't mind heavy blankets etc on them. Actually two of them seem to like the heavier the better. They like that pressure. The other cats oftentimes lay on the other one. It is crazy.

I think it is just normal ups and downs. It happens. The fact Ember let him lay on her is a big tell. I wouldn't worry too much, it sounds like they have that fundamental love and bond. There are always ups and downs.

Yes, it can look scary. And if there is real fear of being hurt it can escalate because it is an existential threat (or perceived to be - rightly or wrongly). Cats have survived this long because they will fight to survive. But as long as the threat is not that severe it shouldn't escalate. Sure it might sound bad and might look bad but rarely does it end in blood and if it does it usually is by accident (which can happen). Because there is that fundamental trust and love.

Now the hunching is communication. Now I have seen cats hunch when they wanted to play and I have seen them hunch to deter. And a swat can be both as well. The tell is usually how the other cat responds (or doesn't). That tells us what the other cat thought of it. And then the response of the cat that did it. It is hard to know the intent without knowing the cats and even knowing them can be difficult but seeing how it progresses tells us a lot. The fact Ash didn't attack her and the fact she didn't attack him tells me it was either a warning (don't mess with me) or play. And if Ash didn't cower or hide etc then Ash took it as no threat. I actually take that as a positive. If there was a real problem any little thing would lead to a big fight and this surely would have IF there was a real problem. It is hard to explain since it is more art than science but hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I'm not too worried about it. She's never gotten up there when it was on and it would be pretty hard for her to turn it on herself. We just have to be careful if it's hot. I don't know why she's doing it. She walks back and forth across the counters. She's been known to get up there when there's food, but that's far from surprising. We had the Sscat thing before until it ran out. Didn't last very long. It was the only thing that even remotely worked, but if you left it off for even a day they'd be back at it. However, I hesitate to do anything to scare her since she's already so sensitive. And it only covers so much space since it can only face one direction.

Ember's favorite place is under my knees when I lay on my back with them drawn up and the covers over them. She likes the warmth, but I've noticed she always finds the place where the blanket is held up the most. It was subtle since those places are often against my stomach or in the crook of my knees which she likes anyway, but I did notice it eventually.

Yeah, it wasn't a very concerning situation. Not great, but not terrible.

They definitely get to looking scary, but they can look scary when playing too. I'm happy it's never ended in blood though and I hope it never does. I think Ash's fur helps. He's lost some clumps before, but his fur is really thick and fluffy. It's hard to find skin on him. He shrinks when wet.

Well, I'd have to say that behavior isn't usually play. The slaps are a bit hard for their typical play which is slow and rather gentle when it comes to slaps. Ash doesn't react the same to being slapped as he does when she outright goes after him though. I've watched it happen and he usually just leans back, tucks his head in, tilts his ears back, and waits for her to finish. He certainly doesn't enjoy it especially since she usually gives him a few solid thumps on the top of the head. However, I can't say anything for certain this time since I was watching from a distance and Ember had her back to me. Ash wasn't scared which is great, but I didn't have a good view of him when he jumped up on the shelf so I don't know how he reacted exactly. He didn't run.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cats just want to go everywhere especially where they shouldn't go. Your cats are smart, they know what causes the air disturbance and think "hey it isn't there I can go there". It is so hard to deter cats, that is the one thing that works best in my opinion. Let's hope she gets out of it. I also tell them "no" which sometimes works. Hopefully she will get bored going up there and stop wanting to get up there.

Yep, they love that. Like a tent. Being covered, warm but having some room. It is interesting she doesn't mind (too much) when Ash is laying on her. Maybe it is just her head she doesn't like being covered.

Agreed.

Yes and yes it is so good they don't draw blood. I think it is more the other cat doesn't intend too but thick fur does help as well. But if a cat really wanted to hurt him they could so I am thinking the intent is never really to hurt him which is very good.

Yes, the body language of Ash you describe is defensive and cautious. Now I have seen it when cats are playing but it is more non play driven typically. Yes, this time the fact Ash wasn't scared is a positive and the fact he didn't run is another good sign.

My one cat looks more "aggressive" when she plays but that is just how she is. I have seen others do that. I am not sure if it was how they were raised or what but it does happen.

 

[Animal Freak]

They are smart. Sometimes I wonder if it's a good thing. It did work the best. We had tried everything short of tape which my mom considered, but I refuse. I wouldn't do anything to hurt them and the boys have long tufts of fur on the bottom of their paws. But Ember scares pretty easily. I can't yell at another cat across the house without her taking off.

That's certainly possible. Sometimes she lays next to me with her head out of the covers. And she'll go under and back out several times before getting comfortable. It's a pain until she settles down, but I always enjoy having her with me.

I don't think she's out for blood, but she might not mind it if she causes a little pain to get the message across. I don't think she's ever actually hurt him though. Just scares him.

Yeah, I don't think it's usually playful. I think Ember usually means it as a warning, but warning him about what I don't know. They're so sensitive I just can't figure out what's the common denominator is though.

My cats tend to look aggressive with narrowed eyes, flattened ears, and a lashing tail, but it's very different. They don't act aggressive at all. Rather, it's more of a standoff as they size each other up and look for the best opening, but don't actually do anything. I have seem them box a couple of times though and that was pretty entertaining.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes, they are very smart. I agree, it can get them into trouble (at least their curiosity). I have heard using aluminum foil (because of the sound) can work as well. I haven't used the tape but I know people have for scratching on furniture but I don't know what it does with the hair between their paws. I think it is a special tape. Yeah, yelling can upset the other cats since it is out of the ordinary.

Yes, that sounds very common.

Yes, a hard hit gets the point across more than a tap. It is very good that she never really hurt him because that was her intent (not to hurt) which is great. If she wanted to hurt him she surely could. But she chooses not to.

Sometimes it can be difficult to tell. But I trust your instincts. Just keep on watching them and how they react after. I guess the warning is just "don't mess with me" which is very common. All cats do that just the amount and the degree differ.

And other cats react to that body language. So it makes sense that they all do that because it is a way to say "don't mess with me, I am serious". You should see two of my ferals. They will be getting along and boom escalation. Wrestling, boxing, etc. It is great your don't do anything/hurt each other. My ferals are the same. They fight but would never hurt each other. They really are something.

 

[Animal Freak]

We've done aluminum foil among other things. It would be moved every time so it wasn't stopping anyone. If anything, it seemed to appeal to them. And by them I mean mostly Frost since he tends to be the worst about getting up there.

And she does hit hard. For her little dainty feet anyway. I've never been hit by her though. Frost's slap feels like being hit with a cloud and Ash's feels like a pillow, but they have fur to pad it a bit more and they aren't usually trying that hard.

Yeah, it's just hard to understand why they want to tell each other off about messing with them when the other cat hasn't done anything. Frost does it to Ember and Ember does it to Ash. They can be five feet away from each other and still cause an issue. Cats are odd creatures.

Sometimes I think they might actually get hurt during play. They get a bit rough with the pouncing and someone ends up banging into the TV stand or a wall. It doesn't sound good but they're totally unfazed. Then again, I've watched Frost run face first into the TV stand and then keep going.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Too funny, they liked it? OH my.

Yes, cats can hit hard. When a person can hear it (like I have) it is like "wow, that was hard".

It can be just a look or the way they walk and of course it depends on their history. With Ember and Ash it very well could be redirected aggression because of Frost intimidating Ember (at times). Oftentimes cats will redirect aggression on the ones they trust most. Cats are unique but a lot of times it does make sense but sometimes it just doesn't.

Oh I know. Sometimes I have to stop their play as they get too wild and I too worry about them getting hurt. But you are right, they can bounce into something and keep on going. They bodies must be pretty supple that they can take those bumps and be ok.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I never saw them on it, but it would always be a mess when I got home. Sometimes it would be on the floor. But it still happened every day.

Oh yeah. I've heard some good thumps. It's pretty impressive.

Cats sure can be difficult. I wish I knew what started Frost's hissing. We always thought Ash was going to be the crabby old man, but they seem to be switching places.

I'm surprised Frost didn't get a concussion when he ran into the TV stand. I mean, he was running. I heard him make contact. He tried to dive under it without slowing down. It didn't work. But they've definitely hit the walls pretty hard a few times when they were playing together.

Oh, Ember got her first turd stuck in her fur. I didn't even know that was possible. It was hard by the time I noticed it, but it looked normal so I don't know what caused it to stick. She was acting weird and I thought it was going to be her anal glands, but nope. Much easier fix.

Also, I'm not entirely sure what just happened. As I was typing this I heard a hiss and a little bit of running. Definitely Ember going after Ash, but not serious. Other than that one hiss, there wasn't any other noise. I saw Ember start coming out of the storage room and then all of a sudden she took of into the kitchen and stood there sideways with her back arched. I realized Ash was on the other side of her, but I'm not sure if he ran at her when she was leaving or if he thought she was gone and decide to go running like a weirdo. There was a standoff, but I wasn't sure if I should intervene or not. I feel like it could be best for them to try to figure it out on their own, but I don't want the situation to escalate. But it never got past that. Ember still seems a little tense, but nothing else. It seems like maybe Ash isn't backing down quite as much?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Interesting. I wonder if they jumped up on the counter and it scared them and knocked it down. Tough to know.

It is amazing how strong they really are.

Yes they can. It is hard to know why cats get grumpy. It could be that he has discomfort. He could just want to be left alone. He could feel a little insecure and doesn't want to be bullied. It could be so many things. You just have to watch him and see if there is any evidence to support anything. It does happen as well.

I know. It is surprising. They can really hit things hard but they must be pretty tough to be able to handle it.

Yep, it does happen sometimes. It doesn't have to be anything wrong it could just happen. It will cause them to act weird, they don't like that. I am glad that Ember didn't have an issue.

Maybe Ember thought it was still Halloween? In all seriousness that is body language that says don't mess with me. Now my one cat does the Halloween cat thing when she is playing. But I think she does it to intimidate. It could be any of those things you mention but it was Ember saying "don't think about it". But the fact it didn't escalate that is really good, they worked it out. Sometimes it is best to just observe and see if they will work it out. If it gets scary then I intervene. It could be Ash not backing down (which would be good). But he could have felt trapped and tried to run elsewhere. It is hard to know without seeing everything. I always say a confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked and a more confident cat stands up for themselves and doesn't run. And that usually leads to less attacks which is really good. This incident sounds like a positive really. A little issue but nothing happens. We don't mind that.