Cat Introduction .... Failure?

[RocketPuppy97]

Did he pee in the laundry basket? Or just where they usually are? I wonder if the scent is really gone from that area. Are you using an enzymatic cleaner to clean that area?

Do you have a black light or can you get one? Using a black light can show you any areas where pee may be. It might be a good idea to do this just to rule out if there is any pee around there.

It is possible to put a litter box where the laundry baskets usually are? I know it is not desirable or the best but it might give us a solution.

Let's see if the new litter box instead of the hooded one helps.

Do you think there was anything that may have happened before the incident? Something is causing him to do this. Maybe it is the hooded litter box but I wonder if it is something else. We just need to try to figure it out.

We got hard plastic ones with a lid so he's not able to pee on our clothes anymore. The old one was thrown away because he peed so much on it. Yeah, I've used one since he started peeing. I cleaned the litter mat and the place where the laundry baskets are. And I'm pretty sure I cleaned everything good. He didn't pee on the laundry baskets for like 1 1/2 or 2 month I think. And he stopped peeing on the mat too like a month ago.

I have a blacklight and use it often to see if he still pees anywhere.


His peeing behaviour stopped when I swapped the hooded one for one without hood, that's why I bought another one for the livingroom.

I don't know, I sense he's more upset about being in the bedroom. He wants to have free roam of the flat. But it looks like we don't have to wait that long anymore.

Today playtime was really good again! We played with them for 10 minutes together. Monty was on the bed with Cosmo from time to time, a little bit unsure about the situation, but he didn't try to grab him and my boyfriend was always able to get his attention back.

 

[Furballsmom]

This is terrific, good for you-all!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

We got hard plastic ones with a lid so he's not able to pee on our clothes anymore. The old one was thrown away because he peed so much on it. Yeah, I've used one since he started peeing. I cleaned the litter mat and the place where the laundry baskets are. And I'm pretty sure I cleaned everything good. He didn't pee on the laundry baskets for like 1 1/2 or 2 month I think. And he stopped peeing on the mat too like a month ago.

I have a blacklight and use it often to see if he still pees anywhere.


His peeing behaviour stopped when I swapped the hooded one for one without hood, that's why I bought another one for the livingroom.

I don't know, I sense he's more upset about being in the bedroom. He wants to have free roam of the flat. But it looks like we don't have to wait that long anymore.

Today playtime was really good again! We played with them for 10 minutes together. Monty was on the bed with Cosmo from time to time, a little bit unsure about the situation, but he didn't try to grab him and my boyfriend was always able to get his attention back.

Ok, great on cleaning and blacklighting everything.

Yes, having more room could be more comfortable for him. Hopefully that helps (the new litter box).

It very well could be that he is territorially insecure thinking (wrongly) that since the other parts of the home are "taken away" (in his eyes again wrongly) that he has to mark this territory (the bedroom). That is a very strong possibility.

Yes, we don't have to wait long to see if that is the issue.

GREAT!!! I LOVE to read that Monty was on the bed with Cosmo and could be distracted and didn't go after Cosmo. FANTASTIC!!! Exactly the progress we want to see. Keep up the great work!!

I am starting to think that maybe it is the territorial insecurity that is causing him to do it. Did he seem like he really really wanted out of the bedroom? I am sure he is like "hey, I am ready, give me the whole place". We just have to make sure Monty is cool with that. Monty is definitely getting closer. This weekend we will want to see how they do together in the living room as long as they continue to have a good week (which I think they will). We'll talk more about that plan in a few days.

Keep us up on how things are going during this week. Keep doing what you are doing and let us know how things are going.

You are doing great, you are almost there. I am surprised at Cosmo but I think it will be solved very soon.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I am starting to think that maybe it is the territorial insecurity that is causing him to do it. Did he seem like he really really wanted out of the bedroom? I am sure he is like "hey, I am ready, give me the whole place". We just have to make sure Monty is cool with that. Monty is definitely getting closer. This weekend we will want to see how they do together in the living room as long as they continue to have a good week (which I think they will). We'll talk more about that plan in a few days.

Yeah, He really wants to get out really really bad. He peed on a t-shirt was laying around the other day. He'll meow and meow and meow. And then when he's fed up he'll search for a place to pee at. I told my bf to not let anything laying around on the floor, because it partly makes it easier to deal with it as he the only pees on none fabric things. The odd thing is, he'll not pee on clothes laying on a table or a nightstand or on the bed.

Wow. That was really a slap in the face. It's 7 am. The cat's have been switched and fed. Cosmo is in the bedroom today. I have work later today so I'm in the bedroom with him. He's walking around meowing nonstop again. Then he goes in the litter box scratches around (sometimes when the litter box has just been cleaned he'll lay in it) he steps outside, scratches the litter mat and pees right on it. Before my eyes. I'm furious really. I do everything for him to make it better and he destroys and pees on everything I own.

Another problem we have is, Monty demands food at 5 am. every morning when he's in the room with us. We get up at 6:30 and no cat is being fed before that. Period. Never done and we'll not start that.
He'll start attaching our feet. I don't move for the most part and he'll stop. I'll pretend I'm still sleeping.
My bf on the other hand, is Monty's favourite person. He'll attack his feet and legs and my bf sits right up in bed and puts him on the ground. I told him to pretend to sleep and not move, but he says that Monty will then just proceed to scratch at his face.


Playtime yesterday was really good again, Monty came to play with my toy two times and didn't make a move on Cosmo. After he was losing a bit focus we called it a day after 15 minutes.

I know I should be happy that we are moving forward, but I'm just so upset that his peeing is suddenly being this bad again. I'm so tired of cleaning up pee.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Is the new litter box without the hood the one he peed outside of?

T-shirts are very much like litter so cats will do that. It is the texture, softness, etc they tend to like.

Is there any chance he has any issues with his paws or legs? Is the litter depth too much or too little? You may want to try to watch him and see if there is any discomfort and also try different levels of litter. Maybe it is something causing him discomfort?

Though it does seem that he might be struggling with territory being "taken away (in his eyes)". So I am leaning to territorial insecurity but I do wonder about discomfort issues.

I know it is frustrating. I am struggling with the reason why he was in the litter box, scratched then decided "no, I would rather go on the mat". It seems like there was something that he felt more comfortable with (for some reason).

Was it a stressful morning BEFORE his peeing on the mat? Was there rushing around, etc? You did mention that they are demanding feeding earlier and causing issues. Did it cause any elevated stress? BTW, my cats do this all the time. I will feel their nose and whiskers on my face not to mention them stepping all over me etc. Cats are just very active typically at dawn (and earlier). Instinct typically. It is one of the hardest things to change sadly other than trying to stick to a routine and as they get older they get a little lazier. :/

GREAT on playtime. We may want to think about seeing how well they might behave this weekend together. Given the peeing I am trying to figure out if we should accelerate the timeline. They are doing GREAT together. I think it is probably a touch early BUT given the peeing it might be worth the risk. I do think we may get some chasing etc early in the morning (it may shift from your bed to other parts to he home between them. I am not worried about them hurting each other BUT I don't think there could be some wildness and some actions that may cause you unease.

I am debating whether you should try to have them open gates etc but monitored with no real play but trying to just hang out with them and see how they do. Then do some play and feed treats (see if they are a little more relaxed) and then just hang out with them and see how they act towards each other. If we do this it is really important to be as calm and confident while doing it as possible.

You are REALLY close but it may be a touch early BUT the peeing is making me think it might be necessary to accelerate the process. What is your thinking? How comfortable are you or do you think it is too early to move this fast?

I know this is so frustrating but you really are close to getting them together. Now, we may be wrong about the territorial issue and it is something with the litter level or discomfort or something else. Always hard to know but trying things is how we figure it out. Cosmo's issue of peeing is not obvious but we will figure it out.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Is the new litter box without the hood the one he peed outside of?

T-shirts are very much like litter so cats will do that. It is the texture, softness, etc they tend to like.

Is there any chance he has any issues with his paws or legs? Is the litter depth too much or too little? You may want to try to watch him and see if there is any discomfort and also try different levels of litter. Maybe it is something causing him discomfort?

Yeah, it's the new litterbox, but his peeing started again before I even got it.
I don't think he has a problem with his paws or lags, he jumps around, runs at full speed and walks lkie the king cat tiger he thinks he is. He always prefers deep litter so he can dig deep so we give it to him, but that didn't change either. We also didn't switch the litter or anything like that.

Was it a stressful morning BEFORE his peeing on the mat? Was there rushing around, etc? You did mention that they are demanding feeding earlier and causing issues. Did it cause any elevated stress? BTW, my cats do this all the time. I will feel their nose and whiskers on my face not to mention them stepping all over me etc. Cats are just very active typically at dawn (and earlier). Instinct typically. It is one of the hardest things to change sadly other than trying to stick to a routine and as they get older they get a little lazier. :/

Nothing out of the ordinary really, my bf was a little frustrated with Monty for waking him up again, but Cosmo was still sleeping in the livingroom so that didn't seem to upset him.
No rushing, just the usual morning routine as always.
They demand their food early everyday, a bit of meowing and climbing the door happens every morning for us.

I am debating whether you should try to have them open gates etc but monitored with no real play but trying to just hang out with them and see how they do. Then do some play and feed treats (see if they are a little more relaxed) and then just hang out with them and see how they act towards each other. If we do this it is really important to be as calm and confident while doing it as possible.

That sounds like a plan. Having them together casual, distracting when needed and just trying to hang out. Sounds a bit scary but it's worth a shot.

You are REALLY close but it may be a touch early BUT the peeing is making me think it might be necessary to accelerate the process. What is your thinking? How comfortable are you or do you think it is too early to move this fast?

I can't really tell. Monty is a little unpredictable in that case. One moment he'll be fine and the otherone he'll turn around and try to mark the boss, like flipping a switch. But I know both of them should be happy and maybe the together playing has made him abit more comfortable. I'm just a bit worried about what he'll do when we are just chilling, because in essence he's got nothing to do so Cosmo could be something to do for him. What should we do if the start chasing each other? Usually you can't stop them unless you catch one of them

 

[calicosrspecial]

Nothing obvious with regard to anything other than territory it seems.

Now, just to be clear, Monty was in the bedroom all night, Cosmo in the rest of the house. Then they switched for the day, Cosmos was secured in the bedroom and before you could leave for work he peed outside of the litter box. Correct?

If yes, this could be because he smelled Monty in there and wanted Monty to know this is his BUT it seems like not having access is probably the reason.

When we decide to get them together and just hang out, monitor etc make sure you stay as calm and confident as possible. Cats can sense our emotions so any time we have unease they can as well which can lead to more defensiveness and issues. I know it is hard but do your best. I think they are going to be fine. They may chase and maybe "get into it" a bit but watch how they respond after it. If they rebound quickly then it is nothing to worry about. Distract as needed.

Yes, that is often the case (a cat gets bored and says "let's play with the other cat"). See if you can distract if possible. Don't panic, just calmly try. If one corners another cat and jumps on them etc just calmly and safely try to separate them. Call their name, get a pillow, etc. My sense is they will get over it quickly. IF there is any lingering issue of acting differently etc then keep them separated.

Try to make sure they have enough places to hang out in different places. So several bedding choices, tree or "up" places, things like that. If they can look out of a window safely that is good. Anything to attract their attention or keep them out of each other's space.

I often have one cat hanging with me giving love BUT if you do that MAKE SURE you can do it safely without being at risk of being hurt in any way. It is not for everyone so it is ok if you can;t do this but it oftentimes keeps them occupied and makes positive associations. But not the end of the world if it can't be done.

You have great cat instincts so just trust your instincts and watch the cats body language and then how they rebound if something does happen. And try to stay as calm and confident around them as possible. I tend to be more cautious but I do think your cats are going to be fine. There may be some scary movements but I don't get a sense Monty will want to hurt Cosmo. It might look scary but I think Monty knows the line. He just wants Cosmo to know he is the boss cat.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions. Things will work out. Let's hope the territorial situation is the reason for the peeing. If not, we will figure it out.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Now, just to be clear, Monty was in the bedroom all night, Cosmo in the rest of the house. Then they switched for the day, Cosmos was secured in the bedroom and before you could leave for work he peed outside of the litter box. Correct?

Exactly like that.

You have great cat instincts so just trust your instincts and watch the cats body language and then how they rebound if something does happen. And try to stay as calm and confident around them as possible. I tend to be more cautious but I do think your cats are going to be fine. There may be some scary movements but I don't get a sense Monty will want to hurt Cosmo. It might look scary but I think Monty knows the line. He just wants Cosmo to know he is the boss cat.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions. Things will work out. Let's hope the territorial situation is the reason for the peeing. If not, we will figure it out.

So if they begin chasing. When do I know it's been enough? What's when they don't stop and chase and chase and chase? When would I seperate them? And would I let them be together again after breaking it off the same day if the don't act differently?

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So small update:

Our playingsession before bed was like 10ish~ minutes long, both cats were temporarily able to play on the bed. Monty was doing really good, at one point Cosmo came a bit close for Monty's liking and he jumped right at him biting his neck again an pushing him down, we were able to distract both of them with toys and Cosmo didn't show any signs of discomfort or that he was now scared. He kept an eye on Monty but played well after that. After around 8 minutes Monty became easier distracted by Cosmo so we called it a day

 

[calicosrspecial]

Exactly like that.




So if they begin chasing. When do I know it's been enough? What's when they don't stop and chase and chase and chase? When would I seperate them? And would I let them be together again after breaking it off the same day if the don't act differently?

Typically I try to stop a chase pretty soon. BUT it usually takes until one runs up a tree and the other doesn't follow or they stop and start facing each other and maybe swatting at each other. Things like that. Then it is typically pretty easy to block sight using a pillow or calling their name or using a toy. Sometimes cats will start rolling around or like Monty might do, bite Cosmo's neck and jump on him then distract as you typically do. I typically try to stop things before they happen BUT it is very hard. Just do your best. Some people think they should work it out but I tend to try to avoid negativity. Both ways work, I just take a more cautious way trying to avoid negativity.

If they don;t act any differently after a negative encounter then I would try to get them together again the same day and continue to try to distract them etc. Again, trying to avoid that negativity (which is not always possible). It can happen time and time again but ultimately they tend to accept the fact that the other cat is going to be in "their" territory and no matter what they do it isn't going to change. But as long as there are no threats (physical) and no reduction in food access, water access or litter box access the cats will accept the new living situation.

So small update:

Our playingsession before bed was like 10ish~ minutes long, both cats were temporarily able to play on the bed. Monty was doing really good, at one point Cosmo came a bit close for Monty's liking and he jumped right at him biting his neck again an pushing him down, we were able to distract both of them with toys and Cosmo didn't show any signs of discomfort or that he was now scared. He kept an eye on Monty but played well after that. After around 8 minutes Monty became easier distracted by Cosmo so we called it a day

Well, that is a good play session. Maybe not perfect but overall positive. Both cats playing on the bed. GREAT. Then with play comes increased energy and Monty took it out on Cosmo. BUT Cosmo trusts him so just goes about his business and played nicely. AND Monty was distracted AND accepted Cosmo playing. GREAT. Then Monty focused more on Cosmo and you called it a day. Make sure you feed some treats after the play and if you can have them close to each other without incident that is great.

But overall, I think it is positive. Monty definitely is focused on Cosmo and that can happen with play as their energy levels (hunting instinct) is up. But I wonder how if you were just hanging out how they would be and how easy it would be to distract Monty.

Monty is still figuring out Cosmo and still trying to tell Cosmo that he is the boss. Cosmo doesn't seem to be challenging Monty but Monty is still trying to get the point across. It is common and normal. This is one of the reasons I would like to take it slower BUT the peeing is making me think about accelerating it. I think Monty's fascination with Cosmo should continue to be reduced (as it has been over the past months). I would like to continue doing it in smaller steps but sometimes a larger step can create a breakthrough.

Try hanging out with them Saturday and let's see how they do and deal with the chasing as I mention earlier in the post. If something doesn't go as expected we'll just take a step back. Given their relationship right now I am not worried about some terrible setback. I think they are well past any worry that they will not get along. Keep an eye on how fast they rebound from anything potentially negative and if anything negative happens try to use treats or food (or play and then treats or food) to turn it into a positive.

Don't worry, you will do great. We always have setbacks but at this point i am not worried it will be a long term negative.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So we started our little experiment with well fed cats, through playing with them. I didn't think it would be a good idea to just let them run at each other. They both played very well and the few incidents where Cosmo came to close to Monty and was jumped at were not that bad, we were able to distract them and nothing dramatic happend. Both acted normally right after and continued playing. They got a few treats here and there and after a while they were tired from playing so much and layed down on opposite ends of our rug in the livingroom, pawing at the toy a little. This continued for like 45 minutes, we were wandering through the flat and everything was fine, until Monty went in the hallway. We have a long tabletop leaning against the wall there and the cats love to use it like a tunnle. Monty came out at the otherside of the tunnle right next to our bedroom and Cosmo unfortunatly decided it was a good idea to go in the tunnle next, Monty all of a sudden turned around and ran into the tunnle at full speed and we just heared cat wrestling on the inside. Next they came out on the other side of the tunnle facing the livingroom, chasing each other at full speed over the windowsills and down under the table on the other side of the room, at this point one of them started hissing (I think Cosmo because he was the one being chased), curling up into a ball of two cats again and all of a sudden growling. I managed to grab Cosmo and my bf grabed Monty. We noticed that each of them lost a little bit of fur and we seperated them immidately. Except some meowing from both cats they were acting more or less normal after that. Cosmo used the litterbox right after and they were laying on their sides by the door like 10 minutes later. We switched them again (because it was Cosmos turn to be out today so we didn't want to keep him in the bedroom) and he was walking out the door, tail up high with that little curl at the end and acting like nothing happend.

I think if we hadn't played with them on and off the whole time, that a chase would have happend much sooner.
I just don't know ho to interpret this incident, was this whol thing ruined because of it? Wasn't it that bad because they act normal right awas? What about the growling and the bit of drawn fur?


Here is a very short clip of us entretaining the cats

 

[Furballsmom]

was this whole thing ruined because of it?

No, I don't think so.

A thought about the lost fur, would you want to try claw caps with them?

 

[RocketPuppy97]

No, I don't think so.

A thought about the lost fur, would you want to try claw caps with them?

I cut their claws yesterday so they weren't really sharp to begin with. But ist was more while they were biting eachother that they lost fur

 

[calicosrspecial]

The fact the cats acted normally (more or less) pretty soon after the "encounter" tells me that it is not that big of deal.

I should have mentioned that trying to keep areas clear with a lot of exits and no "traps" or places they can get cornered with only 1 way out (through the other cat) or only a small 2 way path is best.

It sounds like it was an unfortunate (bad timing) situation.

Now, the fact there was fur is not great BUT the fact that they both chose NOT to seriously hurt the other cat tells me that they didn't want to be aggressive or offensive and rather it was more defensive. So though ideally we would want this to not happen I don't think it is an issue really.

Now to the really positive things. They played at the beginning, were distracted when needed AND then were lying on the opposite sides of the rug pawing at the toy which is GREAT. I would like to get them to just lie down there with maybe someone sitting between them (if you can safely). No toy, just relaxing. And see if you can just have them in that space but not focused on each other.

It is possible that if you hadn't been playing with them Monty would have started to want to interact with Cosmo and a chase probably would have happened sooner. If that happens try your best to try to distract them. The goal is to really gt Cosmo to know that Monty will not always chase (so Cosmo wont have to always run) and for Monty to decide that maybe chasing is not all that interesting. I am guessing it is still a little territorial and dominating with Monty but that will go away in time. It just takes that repetitive positive encounters to try to get Monty to fell more comfortable.

The growling is just communication and the fur is probably a result of defensiveness and getting too close. Again, I go back to how they reacted afterwards. If it was something REALLY serious we would have seen bad body language, hiding, avoiding, etc. I think it was more a "hey, get out of my close space" rather than "I hate you get out of my whole house".

Keep trying to have them together. Use treats in the living room. Anything to have them together in a positive way. And try to use a pillow or something (something that is safe for you both) to block an encounter if you sense it might happen. If you can stop a chase before it happens that is great. But please be careful about your safety. I really want you to be very careful breaking up one of these encounters once they start. Try to use a pillow or your voice or something as it is safer. Sometimes cats don't know what they are doing and accidents can happen.

So overall, it wasn't perfect but it is not unexpected or worrying. They will get through this. Let's see how they do this weekend. IF you sense any negative reactions by the cats after a negative encounter then take a step back. I'll keep checking the posts. Let me know if you have any questions or clarifications.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Now to the really positive things. They played at the beginning, were distracted when needed AND then were lying on the opposite sides of the rug pawing at the toy which is GREAT. I would like to get them to just lie down there with maybe someone sitting between them (if you can safely). No toy, just relaxing. And see if you can just have them in that space but not focused on each other.

I was really proud of them for that! I think with the just laying down thing could be a little difficult because they're both very active cats. But I'll see what I can do.

Keep trying to have them together. Use treats in the living room. Anything to have them together in a positive way. And try to use a pillow or something (something that is safe for you both) to block an encounter if you sense it might happen. If you can stop a chase before it happens that is great. But please be careful about your safety. I really want you to be very careful breaking up one of these encounters once they start. Try to use a pillow or your voice or something as it is safer. Sometimes cats don't know what they are doing and accidents can happen.

So overall, it wasn't perfect but it is not unexpected or worrying. They will get through this. Let's see how they do this weekend. IF you sense any negative reactions by the cats after a negative encounter then take a step back. I'll keep checking the posts. Let me know if you have any questions or clarifications.

I work with aggressive cats fairly often so no worries! I know how to handle claws and teeth flying, especially with my own cats.


We weren't able to have them together again, because my bf became ill with the flu. We'll try that again once he's well again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes, you should be very proud!! You are definitely doing the right things!! GREAT job!!

Yes, I know it can be hard when they are young and active. If they like love and purr sometimes they can chose that over wanting to play with the other cat. Just make sure you are safe if you do that. It is hard, but using words and love and things like that can distract them a touch. Just try to get them focused on anything other than the other cat. And if they have just eaten they may be more inclined to be more calm.

Just be careful. Even with experience sometimes we can get surprised. Especially your bf. I am guilty of doing things I tell others not to do and I know I sometimes forget the real risk I am taking. :/

I hope your bf feels better. Yes, good idea. Especially because any change (like a person being ill) can cause some unease among the cats since it "change" (something different) and not the usual routine. So cats tend to be more on edge when things are different.

I wanted to ask you. How close is it that Cosmo gets to Monty that can cause Monty to start focusing on Cosmo? 3 feet? 6 feet? 2 feet?

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I wanted to ask you. How close is it that Cosmo gets to Monty that can cause Monty to start focusing on Cosmo? 3 feet? 6 feet? 2 feet?

I depends on the situation, but I think 1 meter ( I think that's like 3 feet?) is when Monty starts to question what Cosmo is doing and has an eye on him. But we also had situations where Cosmo less than 1 1/2 feet away from him for brief moments while Monty was playing or something. While eating their bowls are just 1 foot apart and despite glancing over a few times Monty doesn't mind that.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is great. I am not at all worried. They can get very close so that tells me they have a lot of trust. They are going to be fine. We will succeed.

Keep up the great work!! Hope your bf feels better.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

We weren't able to do anything really at the moment, because my boyfriend got really sick and he's still recovering and I quite overwhelmed with taking care of him, the cat's and the whole flat all at once.
I try playing with them daily.

Cosmo's peeing is the worst. I don't know if it ever was this bad. He pees every day. Just before I went to bed I found a huge pool of pee where our laundry baskets are. His usual spot. He pees on clothes if he gets the chance. The littemat.
And on top of that he'll meow for us to let him out everytime someone moves around the flat. Our in the middle of the night if he's sleeping in the bedroom with me.
It's so terrible.
Right now he's outsider the bedroom, still meowing like a maniac. And I know full well that he does not want to be in here. He'll get up at 1 in the morning and demand to be let out.

I can't stand it anymore. On top of all the other stress. This is just so much.
And we can't make any progress without my bf.

I'm just so frustrated.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm sorry things have turned like this!