Cat Introduction .... Failure?

calicosrspecial

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So after a fairly busy week, we had one peeing incident. I don't know when it happend and I also don't know why it happend, it was inside of a cardboard box that was just on the floor in our hallway, right where the gate is, so it might have been something Monty did, I don't know. I'm pretty sure he didn't pee anywhere else.

Other than that we just finished anothe 1 hour 40 minutes long playingsession. It had it ups and down, Monty threw Cosmo down 3 times (one time I caught it on tape, it's not long as we broke it of rigth away) The last throwdown was pretty bad. It happened in the bedroom right as Cosmo was going under the bed, Monty followed him and threw him to the ground, there was hissing and biting and growling. It was not easy getting them out of there and we had one ball of cat when we got them out of there, I grabbed Monty and my bf escorted Cosmo out of the bedroom. Monty was really irritated and was wiggeling around in my arms. No fur was drawn, as far as I can tell and there was no blood, so that's good. To end everything on a high note, they both got catmilk right after that, next to eachother of course, and it was fine again.

The first throwdown happend as we tried to have them just chill together. Monty was having non of that, haha. I also noticed he tries really hard to intimidate Cosmo and seem dangerous for example: He'll jump from the cat tower right next to him and run, then he'll stand still and make himself seem bigger. He'll also ambush him and jump right infront of him, most of the times Cosmo doesn't seem bothered.

I've got a long video for you to watch, so you can see how most of our long play sessions look like.
We also had one or two nosekisses, I wasn't able to film those unfortunatly.


Was Cosmo in the rest of the house the whole time before the peeing incident? Not confined to the bedroom? That does sound like a territorial peeing incident because of the location. I am surprised though. Were there any negative incidents between MOnty and Cosmo in the day or so before it happened?

I am going to take the video first. I saw PERFECTION on the video. There were many times Monty could have really "gotten" Cosmo and I saw no inclination of any negative desires.

So it starts with Monty and Cosmo in the same area. Both relaxing and minding their own business. Perfect. Monty exploring Cosmo in the window. Monty jumps on the counter and I think Cosmo makes some sounds and jumps down to go towards Monty. Monty jumps down and they meet. I expected some "fight" and Monty gently starts playing with Cosmo. Monty gets on him and Cosmo is on his back quickly. Sadly the video ends there but I did not seen aggression I saw a form of play up to that point. It was pretty careful and gentle which tells me a lot about where they are. It was not a hatred type encounter.

Then Monty follows Cosmo into the room and passes Cosmo and jumps on the bed. Then Cosmo goes under the bed which of course makes Monty wonder and get excited about playing with him. And then Monty goes under the bed with Cosmo and I am thinking "something is going to happen" and then Cosmo comes up and nosekisses the camera and Monty is walking away towards the door. WOW!! GREAT!!! They were together in an enclosed space and no fight happened???? AWESOME!!! And then Cosmo follows Monty (not something a cat that is afraid would do). They have a little stare down and they look away from being distracted with a toy. GREAT!! And what does Monty do? He goes into the other room and goes on the cat tree!! No desire from Monty to hurt/fight Cosmo. In fact Monty looks relaxed and happy. And Cosmo enters the room and goes under the bed knowing Monty is on the cat tree. Again, something a cat would not do IF he feared the other cat. Cosmo comes out from under the bed and jumps on it for the toy. And Cosmo comes up from below and behind Monty and he does nothing to Monty (and there is no negative reaction from Monty). So I see a lot of trust between them there. Monty is above in a strategic attack position and all he cares about is the toy with Cosmo walking beneath him. Monty sees Cosmo (there may have been a sound not sure) and goes right back to play. No attack, no fear. Then they both have their paws on the same toy. Again, great body language. And then Cosmo jumps on the bed and that I thought could trigger Monty and it doesn't. Wow, GREAT JOB MONTY!!! And Cosmo has his back turned to Monty and doesn't show any fear. Then a lot of play from Cosmo and Monty seeing it and not getting anxious and playing with his toy.

Then the video switches and Cosmo is on the tree and Monty on the bed. They switched paces but I couldn;t tell the difference between them. Which tells me that they are acting normal. Both of them. Look at Monty playing on his side, exposing his belly for a short time with Cosmo above on the tree? WHAT????? Monty is showing he is not fearful of Cosmo. Again, all I see is trust between them. This is FANTASTIC!!! And Cosmo is pretty wild on the tree and Monty looks at him while vulnerable on his side. WOW!!

Then the video switches angles but it looks like they are continuing what they were doing in the previous video. Monty gets really wild playing on the bed and Cosmo is oblivious. Again, I don't see any fear in either cat.

Then new segment of the video - Cosmo in the window shelf and Monty below. Cosmo being pet. Monty playing and Cosmo seems to want to play as well. Then it cuts off.

Then we see them on the couch facing towards each other with a toy. Cosmo playing totally oblivious to Monty. Again not something a cat that fears another cat would do. And Monty looks a little tense watching and I am thinking I wonder if Monty is going to pounce or chase. And Monty sits up and watches and Cosmo looks at him and thinks "whatever" and goes back to playing. And Monty walks away to find some sun. Monty watches Cosmo get off the couch and playing and Cosmo turns his back on Monty. And Monty seems really relaxed and just watches. Then Monty goes for a close up to the camera. Again, Monty had every chance to attack and chose not to. GREAT.

New segment of video - Cosmo on back of the couch and Monty below. Cosmo has his paw reaching down. Fast movements with the toy which can trigger a reaction from another cat. Monty is watching. I am thinking "oh no, here is a negative encounter coming" and Cosmo comes in for a close up.

I saw perfection in this. The one encounter sure seemed like play to me and the body language and the results were all positive. There were so many positives in here. I am so proud of Monty and Cosmo. Cosmo seems to not only not have fear of Monty but also seems to want some interaction. I saw Monty uneasy at times but he chose not to do anything and I saw Monty extremely relaxed many many times. So seeing that (which I know is not the whole story) tells me they are already fine. They have a great relationship from what I saw.

Ok, now to the write-up part. There were 3 negative encounters. I am guessing the one on the video was one of them. I saw that one as play. Then the bad one under the bed. Hissing, biting, growling. Now I saw on the video Monty and Cosmo under the bed with no encounter. So I wonder what changed. They could have been just "amped up" from play. And it escalated. Which can happen. BUT no fur, no blood. So it may have sounded bad it didn't end in a bad result. They chose not to hurt each other which is great. Can you remember what happened right before they got into that fight? Then they get catmilk right next to each other after that???? GREAT. Fast rebound tells me they didn't think it was serious. How fast they rebound and how they act after (normal etc) and how long it takes to go back to normal tells us a lot about how serious it really was.

Did this fight happen in between any segments in this video?

Could it be that Monty just wants to play rather than chill?

Monty could be intimidating but he also could be trying to instigate play. Some of that pouncing, jumping nearby, running, ambushing, etc is to trigger a reaction to start some fun play chases etc.

Now the "halloween cat" way of getting bigger etc is to let another cat know not to try something. So there may be a little fear still of Cosmo but the fact Cosmo doesn't follow through or show any interest (ignores him, isn't bothered) will teach Monty that Cosmo doesn't mean harm. And though I saw a little unease from Monty in the video I didn't see anything at all concerning.

So overall, I think you are doing a great job and didn't see anything to be worried about and even the fight didn't seem that bad. Sure, we want them not to do that but the fact there was no harm AND they rebounded quickly tells me that they are fine. Cats do get into it sometimes but showing restraint tells us a lot about how they really feel about the other cat. They chose not to hurt each other and they told the other one they didn't like what the other cat did. Sometimes cats like people jsut have to work it out themselves through communication etc.

I will say though that I am surprised by the peeing incident. I know I am not seeing everything on the video but I don;t see any insecurity or any body language/behavioral clues. I am really stumped at why that happened. I guess I understand it before when Cosmo wanted to have the other territory but now (if Cosmo was in the rest of the house). Is it possible it was Monty? I know it is hard to know who may have done it (unless it was more physically impossible for one cat).

I am thinking of blocking off under the bed they fought under. I get a sense Cosmo likes it under there though and I do worry about taking away territory. BUT I also want to avoid "dead ends" or places where they can get cornered. Trying to have multiple exits is really important for cats. And they have been under there before without incident (like I saw in he video). Hmmmmmmmmm. What do you think?

But overall, you have done a GREAT job!!! They are pretty much there. I would like to keep trying to have them out and about and together when you both are around. If you sense the wrestling is more playful and not aggressive just try to call there name to break it up rather than physically separating them. And watch how they react during and after. It it gets too intense then we have to separate them but PLEASE be careful so you are not hurt in any way. I don't get a sense the fights are really bad, I think they are more playful though they may get a little out of control. I see this all the time with cats and there is some nuance in determining if it is worrisome or not. I don't get a sense yours is a problem BUT we should err on the side of caution since I don't see everything. Just use your judgement, I trust your instincts to do what you feel is best and what is best.
 
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RocketPuppy97

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Was Cosmo in the rest of the house the whole time before the peeing incident? Not confined to the bedroom? That does sound like a territorial peeing incident because of the location. I am surprised though. Were there any negative incidents between MOnty and Cosmo in the day or so before it happened?
Yeah, he was in the rest of the flat and I don't know of any negative incidents between them. Maybe Monty ambushed him at the door o something. I don't know.

So it starts with Monty and Cosmo in the same area. Both relaxing and minding their own business. Perfect. Monty exploring Cosmo in the window. Monty jumps on the counter and I think Cosmo makes some sounds and jumps down to go towards Monty. Monty jumps down and they meet. I expected some "fight" and Monty gently starts playing with Cosmo. Monty gets on him and Cosmo is on his back quickly. Sadly the video ends there but I did not seen aggression I saw a form of play up to that point. It was pretty careful and gentle which tells me a lot about where they are. It was not a hatred type encounter.
I know that this are not the type of "I wanna kill you" encounters, the only problem is, and that's also why the clip breaks of, is that Monty simply does not know when it's time to stop. Cosmo was hissing and at some poit growling at him, so we had to seperate them both and start playing with them again.


Ok, now to the write-up part. There were 3 negative encounters. I am guessing the one on the video was one of them. I saw that one as play. Then the bad one under the bed. Hissing, biting, growling. Now I saw on the video Monty and Cosmo under the bed with no encounter. So I wonder what changed. They could have been just "amped up" from play. And it escalated. Which can happen. BUT no fur, no blood. So it may have sounded bad it didn't end in a bad result. They chose not to hurt each other which is great. Can you remember what happened right before they got into that fight? Then they get catmilk right next to each other after that???? GREAT. Fast rebound tells me they didn't think it was serious. How fast they rebound and how they act after (normal etc) and how long it takes to go back to normal tells us a lot about how serious it really was.
If I remember correctly, Cosmo was going under the bed and Monty rushed after him, no hesitation. Monty gets amped up from play really easily. It was not even five minutes between the "fight" and having milk and playing again.


Did this fight happen in between any segments in this video?

Could it be that Monty just wants to play rather than chill?
I think the figth under the bed happend after the segement where they "fought" in the kitchen, I didn't flim that much so I think there were maybe 10, 15 or 20 minutes between that.

Monty just wants to play alllllll the time. Chilling is no option when Cosmo is around. In the new video we tried having them together without toys (for maybe 10 minutes?). It wasn't the best idea, because Monty would start to get on Cosmo's nerves. I continued filming and we didn't interven ritgh away, which resulted in a hissing Cosmo, who would sooner or later hide under the coffeetable to get away from Monty, because he wouldn't stop.


I will say though that I am surprised by the peeing incident. I know I am not seeing everything on the video but I don;t see any insecurity or any body language/behavioral clues. I am really stumped at why that happened. I guess I understand it before when Cosmo wanted to have the other territory but now (if Cosmo was in the rest of the house). Is it possible it was Monty? I know it is hard to know who may have done it (unless it was more physically impossible for one cat).
It was 100% Cosmo as it was impossible for Monty to get out of the bedroom, I don't know the fully story because I was at work that day, so maybe something happend. He didn't pee again so far, so it seems like that whatever triggerd it, didn't happen again.

I am thinking of blocking off under the bed they fought under. I get a sense Cosmo likes it under there though and I do worry about taking away territory. BUT I also want to avoid "dead ends" or places where they can get cornered. Trying to have multiple exits is really important for cats. And they have been under there before without incident (like I saw in he video). Hmmmmmmmmm. What do you think?
We have no real way to block under the bed and we try to not have them be under there at the same time. Cosmo doesn't seem to miss the bedroom one bit tho.


But overall, you have done a GREAT job!!! They are pretty much there. I would like to keep trying to have them out and about and together when you both are around. If you sense the wrestling is more playful and not aggressive just try to call there name to break it up rather than physically separating them. And watch how they react during and after. It it gets too intense then we have to separate them but PLEASE be careful so you are not hurt in any way. I don't get a sense the fights are really bad, I think they are more playful though they may get a little out of control. I see this all the time with cats and there is some nuance in determining if it is worrisome or not. I don't get a sense yours is a problem BUT we should err on the side of caution since I don't see everything. Just use your judgement, I trust your instincts to do what you feel is best and what is best.
They will not listen if we call their names, we tried it today and nothing happend.
It's just super difficult to watch, we know that they don't want to hurt eachother, but Monty doesn't know when to stop. Cosmo doesn't run awas like prey that much anymore. He'll lean back and hiss at Monty, but Monty continues to jump on him. And he's only pleased when Cosmo is under the coffeetable and even then, he'll sometimes paw at him.

I know that they are making great progress, I just want them to chill in the same room for like minutes without having to wave a toy in their faces every 30 seconds.
While playing, they seem so well behaved. They are not bothered by the presence of the otherone. I played with them with only one toy and Cosmo wanted to catch the toy mid air and accidently landed on Monty. No reaction whatsoever. They both run after nerf gun arrows in the hallway (Cosmo hissed at Monty one time because he was protecting one of them) and it's fine. Cosmo tried to lick Monty's butt a few times today, Monty wasn't so keen of that idea, butjust walked away and cleaned his butt himself lol.

If Monty wasn't the little bully he is, everything would have been fine weeks ago.

So now to the video, it's a little longer aswell. Apart from the few incidents while having no toys around, they were mostly well behaved and playing nicely. Just the "no toys" part is a nono from Monty.

 

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What a good-looking pair of cats!! To me there is sass going on, but I'm not getting "mean". Like you said, there's no intent to do bodily harm. It seems to me that there might be an overabundance of energy...I apologise if this has been discussed already, but would you have a way to take each cat outside, either for walks or even in a pet buggy? It would be a terrific mental distraction :)
 

calicosrspecial

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I thought he was in the other part of the house. Hmmmmmmmm. Something must have happened but it sure doesn't seem obvious especially given the positives I see in the videos. The only thing I can think of is he wanted access to Monty (if you remember in the video Cosmo did go towards Monty several times) and got upset he couldn't play or interact with Monty. It could be Monty did something but I think that is unlikely. Then it could be something outside (noise, people around, etc) that caused Cosmo some unease and he decided to mark to relieve the stress and let that outside influence know that that is HIS territory. I am leaning to the first situation given what I see on the video but that is instinct and not based on direct facts.

Yes, Monty is just sooooo excited he has a play friend. And he likes to wrestle. My outside ferals are like that. They will wrestle, get wild, someone will get upset (swat, hiss, growl) then a minute later they are rubbing on each other and eating together. It is more common that we think. Monty just doesn't get that Cosmo doesn't like playing like that. And it isn't obvious enough to cause Monty to worry or fear the response. So growling, hissing don;t work and then under the bed it escalated into a "fight". Monty is just so energetic and doesn't get the hint. Unfortunately, they need to work that part out. We still can try to distract them etc so it doesn't get out of control but Monty may need a "lesson" from Cosmo for him to stop. The good news is, there is a lot of restraint and no indication (at this point) of it going bad. I understand your concerns and frustration about this and we all go through it but they are going to work it out. Though I know it is not happening as fast as we like. :/

Yes, Monty wanted to play with Cosmo and they happened to be in a confined space and the fight broke out under the bed. The fact they rebounded in 5 minutes tells me that it was not serious. They took it more as play then something more serious.

So that fight under the bed happened at some point in between the time the video was filmed and not after the video filming ended? So I saw how they were interacting in that video after the under the bed fight?

Yep. Monty is a young, healthy, energetic cat that sees a friend he wants to play with. Totally normal. We may not like it but it is normal and understandable. Cosmo is going to have to do a little better job in telling Monty to "knock it off". We can intervene etc but ultimately it is going to be Cosmo that solves it. Monty means no harm but it is too much for Cosmo. And I don't blame him. Just keep trying to keep them together without play and monitor. So you may be watching TV or eating dinner etc and let them be around and try to break it off if possible but I do think they need to work it out. I am not sure I am explaining what to do real well. It is hard to explain. What I do is I will just sit around and pet them or hold them, give them love. I make sure that they are somewhat tired and not amped up from play. I get them together after they eat as cats tend to play (hunt), eat, groom, sleep. And if we can get them where they are like "I am too tired to be chasing/playing/wrestling" and they just find a comfy bed or cat tree and chill that shows them that it can be done. But of course, they do that in the video. You are in a little different place (further along) than most people. They show they can hang out safely (as shown in that video). So basically do what you do in the video but with no toys and more sitting down etc. Most people are trying to get your results in the video. You are trying to get that last piece of getting them to just hang out together. You are like 99.9% of the way to getting them together. We just need to get you to feel comfortable that Monty wont harass Cosmo into a major encounter that sets us back (I don;t think that is an issue). I am not sure I am clear but does that make some sense?

Maybe play with them in areas where they wont get into it under the bed? I am not worried about the encounter under the bed. In fact, it tells me that they are more advanced in their relationship (since it did not cause harm and they rebounded quickly).

I know it is very hard to watch. But this is part of the "negotiation" they are having. The fact that Cosmo is not running away like prey is progress. Cosmo is standing up for himself. And Monty is not pursuing Cosmo aggressively under the coffee table. He may paw BUT he is not going further (he is showing restraint which is another positive). Keep trying to call Monty to walk away when he is doing that. And then watch what Cosmo does. At some point Monty will move on from this.

I understand. They will get there. I mean, we did pretty much see them chilling in the video. Sure the toy was kind of there but they weren't focused on it really on several occasions. Maybe during a play session put the toy to the side and just sit down and "hang out" if you can safely without being at risk of being hurt. Just try different things and see how it works. You know cats, you are smart, just trust your instincts. There are always steps forward and steps back but your guys are fine and I am not worried about them getting in a place they can't rebound from. They are well past the point where we fear they will not get along. They are going to have a great relationship. The only question is how soon will it be nearly perfect (there is no such thing as perfect - my girl growled at her brother last night. Nothing happened since he understood but it happens sometimes but they work it out).

Oh, Monty is just being a cat. He might have been a little territorially insecure a while ago and now he just seems so excited that he has a friend and of course he wants to be the top cat as well but that is normal for the first cat in the house. The resident cat almost always has the tougher transition. Monty is normal. I am not at all worried about how he has acted. In fact, I am really proud of him s I think he is doing great.

The video -

Cosmo kind of starts off the play and it escalates a little. But look how gentle it starts and how restrained Monty is. Then there is some mild cautious bites and then a chase AND then you cal their names and they are standing right next to each other under the table and they are fine!! And someone pets Cosmo and Monty walks away. THAT IS SUCCESS!!! That is turning a potential negative into a positive. I can't tell you how I LOVE to see that result. FANTASTIC!!!

Then Monty walks away and jumps up and Cosmo looks back. And then back to play and Cosmo goes under the coffee table and Monty goes above him (not after him under the table but above).

Then the video cuts and Cosmo is where Monty was and Monty is walking around. They have a little stare down, Monty is looking how to jump above him because that is fun, they get distracted by calling their names (VERY NICE), they get into some gentle pawing play (look how gentle it is, very kitten stuff), Cosmo holds his own, Monty keeps going, BF does a nice distraction, and they go out from under the table. Cosmos chooses to "escape" rather then fight. I wish I could have seen what happened after. :/

Then Monty uses the litter box, Cosmo is relaxed and then Monty walks past Cosmo walks past (no negativity a positive encounter). This is prefect, exactly what we are looking for, basically chilling together. Monty looks back, Cosmo laying on his side. EXCELLENT. And segment ends.

Then we have Monty and Cosmo next to each other (sure toys are there but Monty isn't focused on the toy while Cosmo is). Cosmo climbs over the couch, disappears and I am expecting Monty to go after him. Cosmo goes up on the tree (no reaction from Monty). And then Cosmo comes down from the tree and bumps into Monty and Monty has NO REACTION!!!! AMAZING!!! TOTAL TRUST. That incident tells me they are fine and are going to be fine. I can't say how PROUD I am of Monty!!! WELL DONE MONTY!!! Then Monty walks above Cosmo, looking at the toy, no fear from either.

New segment. Cosmo under the coffee table, Monty laying near. Someone trying to use a toy to get them to play. At this point I would try to put the toy away and see how they do. They are just chilling in my mind right now. What we are looking for. So I call this success. They are both laying on their sides, looking at each other. This is GREAT. And of course Monty says I don;t want a toy I want to play with HIM. And he comes over and plays. A good "no" breaks it up, Cosmo runs, Monty chases. Then under the coffee table, a little more aggressive pawing but nothing severe and video ends.

New segment - then a really good mutual play session. Love the action AND they are getting along.

New segment - Then they are laying together belly to belly. And there is a toy and Cosmo reacts. Here again I would see how it works without a toy. They look relaxed, chilling next to each other. No fear from either. Cosmo goes "hunting" and Monty just watches. WOW!! This is fantastic!!! Monty didn't go after Cosmo (which can happen).

So overall, I think this video again was AWESOME!! SO MANY POSITIVES. I am really proud of Monty AND I am really proud of you and your bf. You both did an AMAZING job with them. They are doing so well because of your (you and your bf) efforts.

I would watch how they are and put the toy to the side when they seem less interested in the toy and they seem to be chilling (like the moments I mention) and use the toy as a distraction tool if they get into it a little.

But overall, I think things are going fantastically and just keep doing what you are doing and try to spend more time with them just chilling. Hopefully, the description of the video explains the thinking a little better. I think I would probably try to keep them out a little more during the day (less using toy and just going about your business) and use words, toy as distraction tools. But overall, I am really excited where you are.I think you both have done an amazing job!!

Let me know what questions you have and what clarification you may need. Just trust your instincts, you have done a great job to this point so I know you will get them there. I am not at all worried as to what I am seeing. I know you need a bit more evidence to get more comfortable which I totally understand but you are really, really in a great place. WELL DONE!! :hyper: :yess:
 
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RocketPuppy97

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So that fight under the bed happened at some point in between the time the video was filmed and not after the video filming ended? So I saw how they were interacting in that video after the under the bed fight?
Yes that's right.

Yep. Monty is a young, healthy, energetic cat that sees a friend he wants to play with. Totally normal. We may not like it but it is normal and understandable. Cosmo is going to have to do a little better job in telling Monty to "knock it off". We can intervene etc but ultimately it is going to be Cosmo that solves it. Monty means no harm but it is too much for Cosmo. And I don't blame him. Just keep trying to keep them together without play and monitor. So you may be watching TV or eating dinner etc and let them be around and try to break it off if possible but I do think they need to work it out. I am not sure I am explaining what to do real well. It is hard to explain. What I do is I will just sit around and pet them or hold them, give them love. I make sure that they are somewhat tired and not amped up from play. I get them together after they eat as cats tend to play (hunt), eat, groom, sleep. And if we can get them where they are like "I am too tired to be chasing/playing/wrestling" and they just find a comfy bed or cat tree and chill that shows them that it can be done. But of course, they do that in the video. You are in a little different place (further along) than most people. They show they can hang out safely (as shown in that video). So basically do what you do in the video but with no toys and more sitting down etc. Most people are trying to get your results in the video. You are trying to get that last piece of getting them to just hang out together. You are like 99.9% of the way to getting them together. We just need to get you to feel comfortable that Monty wont harass Cosmo into a major encounter that sets us back (I don;t think that is an issue). I am not sure I am clear but does that make some sense?
I just want to get to that point where I can say, I'll leave this door open and they'll just lay around with us and that's it for the moment. I know thats really much to ask. I'm glad Cosmo doesn't run away immidietly, he stands up for himself with hissing and growling, but I don't want him to be pushed around by Monty to the point where Cosmo just lays under the coffeetable.

We've had a good playtime with them today, so I think we're gonna feed them in a few minutes and we'll see how they'll behave together after that, in theory they would just go to sleep again.
We'll let those encounters happen to a point we are positve that they are not being aggressive towards eachother. It's not gonna be easy but we're gonna try.

Maybe play with them in areas where they wont get into it under the bed? I am not worried about the encounter under the bed. In fact, it tells me that they are more advanced in their relationship (since it did not cause harm and they rebounded quickly).
We give them room in the whole flat, so they can go whereever they like. We usually start in the living room, but one of them will just walk away at some point.

I know it is very hard to watch. But this is part of the "negotiation" they are having. The fact that Cosmo is not running away like prey is progress. Cosmo is standing up for himself. And Monty is not pursuing Cosmo aggressively under the coffee table. He may paw BUT he is not going further (he is showing restraint which is another positive). Keep trying to call Monty to walk away when he is doing that. And then watch what Cosmo does. At some point Monty will move on from this.
We'll try that. I'm just hoping that Monty doesn't get fixated on Cosmo as it's fairly difficult to distract Monty long term wiht just calling him.


Cosmo kind of starts off the play and it escalates a little. But look how gentle it starts and how restrained Monty is. Then there is some mild cautious bites and then a chase AND then you cal their names and they are standing right next to each other under the table and they are fine!! And someone pets Cosmo and Monty walks away. THAT IS SUCCESS!!! That is turning a potential negative into a positive. I can't tell you how I LOVE to see that result. FANTASTIC!!!
I'm always so nervous when those throw downs happen, but I try to not let it show. I always hope that this is the one time where Monty gets it that "Okay I should slow down and not be so hard with him"

Then the video cuts and Cosmo is where Monty was and Monty is walking around. They have a little stare down, Monty is looking how to jump above him because that is fun, they get distracted by calling their names (VERY NICE), they get into some gentle pawing play (look how gentle it is, very kitten stuff), Cosmo holds his own, Monty keeps going, BF does a nice distraction, and they go out from under the table. Cosmos chooses to "escape" rather then fight. I wish I could have seen what happened after. :/
Cosmo was hiding under the coffeetable again and Monty was pleased with himself laying down next to the table making sure that Cosmo stays there.

Then we have Monty and Cosmo next to each other (sure toys are there but Monty isn't focused on the toy while Cosmo is). Cosmo climbs over the couch, disappears and I am expecting Monty to go after him. Cosmo goes up on the tree (no reaction from Monty). And then Cosmo comes down from the tree and bumps into Monty and Monty has NO REACTION!!!! AMAZING!!! TOTAL TRUST. That incident tells me they are fine and are going to be fine. I can't say how PROUD I am of Monty!!! WELL DONE MONTY!!! Then Monty walks above Cosmo, looking at the toy, no fear from either.
While being distracted they are both so well behave most of the time, to the point that I'm sometimes shocked haha.

Let me know what questions you have and what clarification you may need. Just trust your instincts, you have done a great job to this point so I know you will get them there. I am not at all worried as to what I am seeing. I know you need a bit more evidence to get more comfortable which I totally understand but you are really, really in a great place. WELL DONE!!
Yeah, I just wouldn't know how to handle them together if I would have to monitor their actions constantly. I wouldn't be able to relax a bit. Maybe it's a bit much haha.
 
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Soooo we fed them and I just let the door open. Cosmo went into the kitchen after he was done, looking on the counter for more food. Monty came into the room soon after and checked his territory. So far so good. After that he jumped on Cosmo again, pushing him into one of the livingroom corners and playing with their paws? After that a chase, Cosmo laying under the table both of them pawing at eachother. Monty walks away sometimes and everytime Cosmo comes out from under the coffeetable Monty will attack him again. They will roll around biting eachother, it looks pretty rough at times and I don't know if I have to worry about them just not stopping. I doubt it would be fun for Como to lay under the table all the time, because Monty doesn't tolerate him anywhere else.
So we ended up seperating them after we saw a little fur flying around. There was no hissing or growling at this point I filmed parts of it, sorry for the bad lighting and quality, it's late where I live.

Now, they seem normal, walking around with their tail up, just abit to exited and jumping at the door and meowing.

 

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Just to mention in case you didn't see my post above, do you have any way to get each cat outside? Walks, or maybe a buggy ride?
 

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I am going to address the video first because I think it is really interesting.

Again, Monty comes down and Cosmo starts to gently paw and Monty is trying to figure out how to wrestle. Monty does a couple gentle paws (very restrained). Cosmos kind of gets cautious, pulls back. Then Monty goes up on the cat tree (Monty had the chance to really corner him, teach him a lesson and Monty goes on the cat tree and gives Cosmo room). To me that is really telling. He is saying "I don't want to hurt you or put too much stress on you, I just want to get a reaction from you". Monty is looking like "come on, do something". And then monty hears some noise and someone comes in and distracts Monty and Monty comes to the person. FANTASTIC!!! And what is really interesting is Cosmo's reaction. He comes out and look at his body language. Almost like "don;t go away". Cosmo is not acting like a frightened cat there. And of course Monty sees him and goes right back to his (I think) play. Monty responds to his distraction (takes off his attention from Cosmo which tells me he is not fearful of Cosmo). And Monty goes up on the cat tree and looks really playful. And I can't tell but I think Cosmo might be reaching up to Monty. And bf removes Monty. Good place to end it. But Cosmo comes right out and Monty jumps n a chair and Cosmo is beneath him. Monty gets down Cosmo walks away looks at Monty, Monty shows no sign of aggression and that segment ends. Cosmo does not act like he is feeling buullied or afraid and in fact almost looks like he kind of likes this. He comes out and almost looks for Monty (not in a scared way but in a let's play way).

New segment - So Cosmo is under the table and Monty above again. Cosmo is actually on his back, his neck exposed but look how gentle Monty is. Some restrained pawing. And Monty turns away and looks uninterested and Cosmo paws at him as if to get his attention. Now, if Cosmo was really not liking this why would he paw to get Monty's attention back on him? Very interesting. Then Monty walks around a little and Cosmo pokes his head out and bats at Monty getting his attention then more fast batting then Monty licks his leg/paw and Cosmo reaches out to him and Monty gets up and gets focused on him again. Then Monty goes on top of the table and paws down. Then Cosmo starts looking where Monty went and then Cosmo kind of pops out and bats at Monty. (sure looks like play to me as a scared cat wouldn't initiate the pawing/batting). End of segment. I would love to know how that ended.

New segment - Monty laying on his side. Cosmo under the table and both looking at the camera like "what, we're just playin'". Looking as cute and innocent as possible. And the video ends.

It is interesting. I see Cosmo not liking it all but sure seems to like some if it. he initiates some of it, looks for Monty. Body language is positive (not aggressive). I don't see fear. They act like kittens. A little rough, they watch how rough, they are gentle, they know and respect the limit.

I think the write up in your 2nd post above the video was about what happened before and during the video. So a couple things about the write up you have. Cosmo seems to kind of not just come out from under but actually paws at Monty as if to continue the play. And earlier in the video Monty was taken away and Cosmo came right out and Monty didn't really bother with him. I actually think Cosmo kind of likes this. Monty has tolerated him in this video and many times in the other videos. Just when Monty and Cosmo get into this play mode with each other. I honestly don;t think it is a "tolerate" issue I think it really is play (though I know it looks rough but I don't hear noise that tells me it is dangerous nor do I see behavior that suggests fear). I see two cats really just playing and enjoying their company. I don't sense a real concern. I think they have a little game between them. I do want to understand how long this would go on. At some point (and I saw it with Monty at times) they will get bored with it.

I'll respond to the previous post in a separate post.
 

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Yes that's right.

GREAT. The fact they acted so well during that video AFTER the "fight" tells me that interpreted in a positive way.


I just want to get to that point where I can say, I'll leave this door open and they'll just lay around with us and that's it for the moment. I know thats really much to ask. I'm glad Cosmo doesn't run away immidietly, he stands up for himself with hissing and growling, but I don't want him to be pushed around by Monty to the point where Cosmo just lays under the coffeetable.

That is not too much to ask. They will get there. Cosmo does not strike me as lacking confidence. And he seems to kind of like this way of playing. He does come out quickly after Monty leaves and he seems to look for Monty. I think this is just there "thing".

We've had a good playtime with them today, so I think we're gonna feed them in a few minutes and we'll see how they'll behave together after that, in theory they would just go to sleep again.
We'll let those encounters happen to a point we are positve that they are not being aggressive towards each other. It's not gonna be easy but we're gonna try.

Yes, that is a good plan. I don;t see aggression but it is good to give Cosmo a break at times. I think they will get bored with it and do more chasing etc at some point. But Cosmo likes to go under and paw at Monty and vice versa.

We give them room in the whole flat, so they can go whereever they like. We usually start in the living room, but one of them will just walk away at some point.

Excellent and I LOVE that one of them walks away. Exactly what we want. Well done.

We'll try that. I'm just hoping that Monty doesn't get fixated on Cosmo as it's fairly difficult to distract Monty long term wiht just calling him.

Well Cosmo is giving him a reaction and at times instigates it. They have a lot of energy but they do get bored at times that I can see on the videos.


I'm always so nervous when those throw downs happen, but I try to not let it show. I always hope that this is the one time where Monty gets it that "Okay I should slow down and not be so hard with him"

Yes, that is normal to get nervous. But I don;t see anything to really worry abut. I can see where it gets annoying but I don;t see where Monty is going to hurt him (or vice versa).

Cosmo was hiding under the coffeetable again and Monty was pleased with himself laying down next to the table making sure that Cosmo stays there.

I do think Cosmo likes it under there. I think if Cosmo didn;t like it he would leave though maybe with some caution.

While being distracted they are both so well behave most of the time, to the point that I'm sometimes shocked haha.

Hahahahaha. Even when not distracted they are well behaved really.


Yeah, I just wouldn't know how to handle them together if I would have to monitor their actions constantly. I wouldn't be able to relax a bit. Maybe it's a bit much haha.

I don;t think you need to monitor them that much. If you hear growling or hissing then intervene but if they are doing theer thing under the table and there is no noise then I would go about my business. Let them tell you there is an issue.

I know how you are feeling but I think they are in a much better place then you think. I wouldn't leave them together when at work yet but I would leave them together when you are at home and respond if you hear noises. They are going to work it out. I think Cosmo is in the much better place than you think. They are just young cats enjoying each other. Keep trying to get Monty away from the table and watch how Cosmo reacts when he does comes over, leaves, etc.

Don;t worry, you are doing great, you are almost there.
 
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Just to mention in case you didn't see my post above, do you have any way to get each cat outside? Walks, or maybe a buggy ride?
Oh, sorry I didn't mean to overlook your post, sorry.
We live near a very busy street, so I don't think that would be the best idea. And I would feel kinda bad when I give them the freedom to go out on a leash the one day, exploring and everything and the next day they have to be in the flat again. My bf and I are both working much and I don't think we would be able to go on regular walks with them.

Again, Monty comes down and Cosmo starts to gently paw and Monty is trying to figure out how to wrestle. Monty does a couple gentle paws (very restrained). Cosmos kind of gets cautious, pulls back. Then Monty goes up on the cat tree (Monty had the chance to really corner him, teach him a lesson and Monty goes on the cat tree and gives Cosmo room). To me that is really telling. He is saying "I don't want to hurt you or put too much stress on you, I just want to get a reaction from you". Monty is looking like "come on, do something". And then monty hears some noise and someone comes in and distracts Monty and Monty comes to the person. FANTASTIC!!! And what is really interesting is Cosmo's reaction. He comes out and look at his body language. Almost like "don;t go away". Cosmo is not acting like a frightened cat there. And of course Monty sees him and goes right back to his (I think) play. Monty responds to his distraction (takes off his attention from Cosmo which tells me he is not fearful of Cosmo). And Monty goes up on the cat tree and looks really playful. And I can't tell but I think Cosmo might be reaching up to Monty. And bf removes Monty. Good place to end it. But Cosmo comes right out and Monty jumps n a chair and Cosmo is beneath him. Monty gets down Cosmo walks away looks at Monty, Monty shows no sign of aggression and that segment ends. Cosmo does not act like he is feeling buullied or afraid and in fact almost looks like he kind of likes this. He comes out and almost looks for Monty (not in a scared way but in a let's play way)
I had the slight suspension that cosmo somewhat likes that kinda play, I was just afraid that they would hurt each other at some point when they curl up in a ball like that. So... All of that was in reality positive?

New segment - So Cosmo is under the table and Monty above again. Cosmo is actually on his back, his neck exposed but look how gentle Monty is. Some restrained pawing. And Monty turns away and looks uninterested and Cosmo paws at him as if to get his attention. Now, if Cosmo was really not liking this why would he paw to get Monty's attention back on him? Very interesting. Then Monty walks around a little and Cosmo pokes his head out and bats at Monty getting his attention then more fast batting then Monty licks his leg/paw and Cosmo reaches out to him and Monty gets up and gets focused on him again. Then Monty goes on top of the table and paws down. Then Cosmo starts looking where Monty went and then Cosmo kind of pops out and bats at Monty. (sure looks like play to me as a scared cat wouldn't initiate the pawing/batting). End of segment. I would love to know how that ended.
Oh it ended up with cosmo under the coffee table again. In fact it was right before the segment where Monty was laying on his side.


It is interesting. I see Cosmo not liking it all but sure seems to like some if it. he initiates some of it, looks for Monty. Body language is positive (not aggressive). I don't see fear. They act like kittens. A little rough, they watch how rough, they are gentle, they know and respect the limit
So we got two happy cats playing.... When do they stop? And when do we need to stop them?
 

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And I would feel kinda bad when I give them the freedom to go out on a leash the one day, exploring and everything and the next day they have to be in the flat again.
But that's the idea, to give them the healthy mental exercise. That doesn't have to happen every day, and they'd seriously be the better for it. Maybe really early in the AM.

Anyway, think about it, your babies would love it and coming back inside isn't a hardship, it's normal :)
 

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Oh, sorry I didn't mean to overlook your post, sorry.
We live near a very busy street, so I don't think that would be the best idea. And I would feel kinda bad when I give them the freedom to go out on a leash the one day, exploring and everything and the next day they have to be in the flat again. My bf and I are both working much and I don't think we would be able to go on regular walks with them.



I had the slight suspension that cosmo somewhat likes that kinda play, I was just afraid that they would hurt each other at some point when they curl up in a ball like that. So... All of that was in reality positive?



Oh it ended up with cosmo under the coffee table again. In fact it was right before the segment where Monty was laying on his side.




So we got two happy cats playing.... When do they stop? And when do we need to stop them?
I am not sure my second response came through properly. I tried to answer the questions like you do but not sure it worked on the second response. It looks all together when I just looked at it.

I am going to respond to this post now.

Very interesting you are seeing the same thing I am (Cosmo seems to like this play). Maybe we are on to something? I know, we always worry about if they will hurt each other but that is why we watch their body language, listen for sounds, watch how they behave after. We watch how they respond to see what they think of the encounter, In the videos I see 2 cats that seem like they are fine with what is happening. So is it positive? I think for the most part it is. They seem to be playing and getting along. I would like to see Monty walk away and Cosmo to come out on his own to confirm it is totally positive. We did see it in the video when Monty was moved and Cosmo came right out but I would like to see it more rather than seeing Cosmo trying to get Monty's attention again and going back to pawing. I think Cosmo likes being under the table.

Yep, Cosmo seems to like to be under there and play with Monty. But then after that Monty is laying on his side (exposing his vulnerable belly) which is not what a cat would do if it was aggressive encounter. Monty would be much more "defensive" if it was a bad situation.

I think that is what we have, 2 cats playing, enjoying each others company. They remind me of young kittens. When do they stop? When they get tired or bored (bored would happen first since they have boundless energy). When do you need to stop them? When it seems like it is getting out of control. So if you her growling or shrieking. An abnormal sound. Or is one cat looks more defensive (scared with ears back, hair up on the back, bushy tail). I don't think there is anything wrong calling them or distracting before they get to that. Just use your instinct. Keep your eye on their body language and how they react after. If Monty walks away and Cosmo is looking for him then we know things are fine. If Cosmo is hiding etc then we have to break it up sooner.

Feel free to keep sending videos and I'll give an interpretation. I think sometimes seeing it and getting a view of what is happening can be helpful. From what I have seen from the videos they are fine. I see some rougher play but a lot of restraint and positives which tells me there is no hatred or aggressiveness from either. And how they act after this rougher play tells me they think that as well. So just keep watching how they act.

You are doing great, don't worry. They are pretty much introduced. There may be some dust-ups but I don't see anything that is going to upset the end result. They are going to be fine.
 
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But that's the idea, to give them the healthy mental exercise. That doesn't have to happen every day, and they'd seriously be the better for it. Maybe really early in the AM.

Anyway, think about it, your babies would love it and coming back inside isn't a hardship, it's normal :)

I know what you mean, but it's not possible for us at the moment to walk them. Time wise and location wise. I would love to do it one day for sure


Today was a good day. I was brave enough to play with both of them together, without my boyfriend being there and it was fine. The first session wasn't that long because I had to go to work, but they behaved really well.
The second session after dinner was quite interesting. They both took turns at playing with the toy and were laying down from time to time. Cosmo was at one point walking away because he got bored. At one point cosmo was so into the play that he completely forgot about Monty and he jump on him accidentally, Monty wasn't amused and for one moment I thought he would pay for it, but nothing. He took a step back and didn't seem to happy but he didn't do anything else.
At the end Monty was chasing Cosmo under the bed, bad timing as I just was about to end the playsession. I didn't hear any hissing or growling so I think they were fine, but I got them out of there and ended it and they were fine again.
 

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I know what you mean, but it's not possible for us at the moment to walk them. Time wise and location wise. I would love to do it one day for sure


Today was a good day. I was brave enough to play with both of them together, without my boyfriend being there and it was fine. The first session wasn't that long because I had to go to work, but they behaved really well.
The second session after dinner was quite interesting. They both took turns at playing with the toy and were laying down from time to time. Cosmo was at one point walking away because he got bored. At one point cosmo was so into the play that he completely forgot about Monty and he jump on him accidentally, Monty wasn't amused and for one moment I thought he would pay for it, but nothing. He took a step back and didn't seem to happy but he didn't do anything else.
At the end Monty was chasing Cosmo under the bed, bad timing as I just was about to end the playsession. I didn't hear any hissing or growling so I think they were fine, but I got them out of there and ended it and they were fine again.
AWESOME!! Well done!! Monty knew Cosmo didn't mean harm AND they can be together without incident while the other plays. And you did a great job on handling the chase (of course it happens when we don;t have time). No growling, no hissing and it ended and they were fine. FANTASTIC!!! Exactly what we want to see. There were a lot of chances for things to happen and they chose not to and stayed positive. AWESOME!!

I am so happy an proud to read this on so many fronts. Well done!!
 
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So I decided to play with both of them together again today. They got bored with the toy after a while, so I allowed them to play with each other. No hissing or growling, I filmed most of it and in the second half of the video (the one on the couch) they are getting a little to rough for my liking so after the video ends I picked Monty up and hold him in my arm for a moment while petting him, to calm him down a bit. Cosmo was laying down in the meantime and when I put Monty down he went to a nearby cardboard box rubbed against it, then looked around and started charing at Cosmo again, they were rolling around and that's when I seperated them completely, because Monty was getting a little to rough and Cosmo started to make a strange muffled sound so I think it was the right choice. They both don't seem like it was negative so I'm fine with it.

Is it normal that cats lose alot of fur while playing? I don't know if it's because the cats get static charged on the couch all the time or if it was a little more of a negative exchange. I'll edit this post and add a photo of what my couch looked like after the played.
IMG_20191120_163052.jpg



 

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I don't know if it's because the cats get static charged on the couch all the time or if it was a little more of a negative exchange.
I'm thinking a bit of both. Have you had a chance to groom them? They could be in shedding mode due to weather.
 

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The video -
That is play. And at about 1:12 you see Monty actually trying to "hold" Cosmo's hand. That was really cute. Yes, the play is a bit rough but Cosmo is exposing his belly (something a cat would not do to a threat as they are very vulnerable with an exposed belly) AND Monty is really restrained. There is that little biting which cats do BUT I don't hear warnings or do I see body language fear.

At about 1:52 I would probably break it up (if possible). It is getting a little too rough for me. Not that I am worried but it could escalate.

Well, at 2:06 THEY pause. WOW!! GREAT JOB guys!!! Then Cosmo goes under the table and Monty playfully paws. They are seriously funny). Monty's body language is fantastic. Looks normal, not at all worrisome. Cosmo looks out, everyone relaxed. Segment ends.

New segment - wrestling on the bed. At 3;00 Monty's tail is swishing pretty good. Play was a little aggressive. I am thinking "oh no". Stare down. I think I would distract at this point. I am taking the video one step at a time and responding so right now I have no idea how this ends. Let's see. Cosmo's ears are flatter. This is getting tense. Something distracted Monty and he looked back. Great. I personally would distract him right now given the tail swishing and the Cosmo flat ears. Monty goes after him, they roll around. @4:34 the biting is a lot and Cosmo is doing a lot of it. They are then each on their side (again vulnerable, not something you would do if there really is fear). But it is getting a little too rough and you distract and bring a toy out which does slow it down. Since the toy didn't really work I would just use a pillow to block their sight of each other since it is a bit too much and I don;t like their body language. BUT they seem to KNOW the boundary and are not hurting each other. So there intent is not to hurt which is great. Big staredown at 5:39ish and again this is a good time to get them to separate, focus on something else. Cosmo gets Monty on his back then And then a pause. And Monty does not look afraid and Cosmo doesn't look aggressive. It is too rough for me but I don't see a major issue. Interesting how now Cosmo is acting like Monty and Monty like Cosmo. They are in reverse rolls vs where they were at the beginning. So now Monty on the ground and Cosmo on top. VERY interesting. But it gets a little too rough for me again at 6:22 or so. And then the crash down and the video ends.

Good job on giving Monty some love after this. The key is to just let them calm down after that since they got a little bit too amped up. I think I would end the rough play earlier. It is not that it was negative it just got too rough and could turn more negative. It escalated through the video. I did see some interesting things. Cosmo definitely got more "active" and seemed like Monty later in the video. I saw some negative body language BUT I didn't hear concerns and the cats were VERY restrained and showed no real sign of wanting to hurt the other cat. BUT hair did come out (I do think that is because of the biting and the claws) and therefore that is too rough.

It is good to hear that they acted normal after which tells me that they may have morphed from play to something a little rougher BUT they did not have a lingering negativity.

So overall, I would suggest ending the wildness a bit earlier. Try to get them to calm down and make a positive association with love after. Watch the body language during this play, if it seems to escalate end it. So I saw some things I didn't like BUT I saw some real restraint AND I saw Cosmo not shrink away which will deter Monty. We need to watch how they act after something like this.

Boys will be boys. They like rough play and it can escalate. I try to stop it (and often have to with 2 of my outside ferals) but as long as no one is hurt and they act normal after it is basically boys being boys.

So I think you concern is understandable and I felt the same way but this doesn't change my mind regarding where I think their relationship is (which I think they are doing great).

Does that make sense? Let me know what questions as I know this may not be totally clear. It is a little complex and nuanced.
 
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That is play. And at about 1:12 you see Monty actually trying to "hold" Cosmo's hand. That was really cute. Yes, the play is a bit rough but Cosmo is exposing his belly (something a cat would not do to a threat as they are very vulnerable with an exposed belly) AND Monty is really restrained. There is that little biting which cats do BUT I don't hear warnings or do I see body language fear.

At about 1:52 I would probably break it up (if possible). It is getting a little too rough for me. Not that I am worried but it could escalate.

Well, at 2:06 THEY pause. WOW!! GREAT JOB guys!!! Then Cosmo goes under the table and Monty playfully paws. They are seriously funny). Monty's body language is fantastic. Looks normal, not at all worrisome. Cosmo looks out, everyone relaxed. Segment ends.
I rewatched it just to see what you mean with Monty was trying to hold Cosmo's hand, I didn't notie that while filming, it's really cute.

I was surprised aswell that they just stopped for a moment, that was something new and another step towards just chilling together.


ew segment - wrestling on the bed. At 3;00 Monty's tail is swishing pretty good. Play was a little aggressive. I am thinking "oh no". Stare down. I think I would distract at this point. I am taking the video one step at a time and responding so right now I have no idea how this ends. Let's see. Cosmo's ears are flatter. This is getting tense. Something distracted Monty and he looked back. Great. I personally would distract him right now given the tail swishing and the Cosmo flat ears. Monty goes after him, they roll around. @4:34 the biting is a lot and Cosmo is doing a lot of it. They are then each on their side (again vulnerable, not something you would do if there really is fear). But it is getting a little too rough and you distract and bring a toy out which does slow it down. Since the toy didn't really work I would just use a pillow to block their sight of each other since it is a bit too much and I don;t like their body language. BUT they seem to KNOW the boundary and are not hurting each other. So there intent is not to hurt which is great. Big staredown at 5:39ish and again this is a good time to get them to separate, focus on something else. Cosmo gets Monty on his back then And then a pause. And Monty does not look afraid and Cosmo doesn't look aggressive. It is too rough for me but I don't see a major issue. Interesting how now Cosmo is acting like Monty and Monty like Cosmo. They are in reverse rolls vs where they were at the beginning. So now Monty on the ground and Cosmo on top. VERY interesting. But it gets a little too rough for me again at 6:22 or so. And then the crash down and the video ends.
Yeah, I thought it was abit too rough, but I was just curious how far it would go, would Monty be too much for Cosmo again or not?
I know, I should have probably seperated them sooner.
Normally that would have been a situation where Cosmo would run away or hiss at Monty, so since nothing of that nature happend, I was abit confused.
And I was very surprised that Cosmo acted like Monty, I didn't tought that was something he would do, like ever, but that's great because he'll not act like prey anymore.

So now I know when to seperate them even if I hear nothing.
But this encounter shows me that Cosmo is getting more and more confident.
Now it's just a bit more bringing them together and seperating them and brining them together, until they'll finally chill together.
Maybe.... just maybe we'll have a christmas with to cats in one room. That would honestly be the best christmas gift ever.


I'm thinking a bit of both. Have you had a chance to groom them? They could be in shedding mode due to weather.
Hmmm, didn't think about that, maybe it's time for a little grooming again. Thanks!
 

calicosrspecial

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It was REALLY cute.

I thought it was great that they paused. That tells me a lot as well. That this isn't a fight for survival (driven by fear) but that it is something much less.

I think what you did was fine. It showed us a lot about where they are. In the future I would probably cut it off not because I fear they are going to hurt each other but just so there is no misunderstanding happens or any negativity takes hold.

Yes, I thought Cosmo's actions were VERY interesting. And in fact, he became Monty for a moment. It was like they switched roles. It tells me either Cosmo really doesn't fear Monty (which I think is true) and/or Cosmo is learning that standing up and not acting like prey will help them come to an understanding.

EXACTLY. I was really surprised Cosmo acted like Monty as well. AND Monty took it well. They are becoming more equal in their relationship. I LOVE that he didn't act like prey. Cats are less likely to "attack" if they feel like the other cat might offer resistance. I think Monty's intent is 1.) to play and then 2.) to tell Cosmo who is "top cat". They are working things out.

Yeah, your instinct is good. If you sense it is a bit too rough try to distract at first. If with distraction you can get them to separate that is great. If that doesn't work then use a pillow or something you can be safe. Then try to calm them down and make some positive associations. If they just are too amped up then you can totally separate them so they chill.

Yes, Cosmo is getting more confident AND he is not really afraid of being hurt by Monty. they actually have a lot of trust between them and it shows by the restraint they show.

Exactly. Getting them together, making positive associations, positive encounters, letting them play, distracting if it gets too rough, etc. Try to have them out and about more when you are just out and around in the house. And just when you are gone keep them separated and let's see how they do. They still have a lot of energy and they love playing with each other so they are going to be a bit wild together. That is how young cats are. But they have shown moments of chilling and not focusing on each other. We'll see longer times in the future.It would not surprise me that by Christmas they will be roaming around together all day. Yes, it will be a great gift!!

You have done an amazing job!!
 
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