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Cat Introduction .... Failure?

calicosrspecial

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I hope you feel better soon. Just rest, play can happen when you are feeling better.

FANTASTIC!!! No peeing. Let's hope the solution has been found.

Yes, this is very common for a cat to want to have more territory.

How do you think Monty would react if Cosmo was in the rest of the flat (relaxing somewhere) and Monty would walk into the same area? Would Cosmo go to greet Monty? Do you think you could distract them?

Great that you are still feeding them next to each other. No negativity?

When you play make sure they are focused on the toy and not on each other. Their energy will be elevated so they could want to play with each other but we want to keep them focused on the toy.

Hope you feel better and let us know how they do. We may have to move a little faster if Cosmo is wanting to. It sounds like Cosmo isn't afraid of Monty (for the most part) but I do want to understand where Monty is towards Cosmo.
 
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RocketPuppy97

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How do you think Monty would react if Cosmo was in the rest of the flat (relaxing somewhere) and Monty would walk into the same area? Would Cosmo go to greet Monty? Do you think you could distract them?
That's a little bit tricky. Monty would run right out of the bedroom if I left the door open and I think he would be excited 1) because he's finally out of there again 2) because he did something he isn't normally allowed to do.
Cosmo would for sure try to greet him. I don't know if Monty would be distractible in that kind of situation.

Great that you are still feeding them next to each other. No negativity?
No, nothing. Just the usual look "meh, just that other cat" and then eating and not caring much about it.

Hope you feel better and let us know how they do. We may have to move a little faster if Cosmo is wanting to. It sounds like Cosmo isn't afraid of Monty (for the most part) but I do want to understand where Monty is towards Cosmo.
Cosmo for sure wants to get out of the bedroom ASAP. When he sleeps with us at night he'll get up and make any loud noise that will lead us to throwing him out of the room and switching both cats so Monty sleeps with us. Just tonight I realised that, that's exactly his goal. To be out of the bedroom. We tried the whole " Just ignore him" thing, but it is really unbearable. I also read the thread on here how to get your cat to let you sleep at night..
We agreed to just keep him out of the bedroom for the night, it's funny because we originally started having Cosmo sleep with us in order to escape Monty who's up and ready for food at 5 in the morning, 1 1/2 hours earlier than their actual mealtime. Now I would rather have a purring Monty trampling all over us at 5 a.m. than every 1 or 2 hours having Cosmo throw things across the floor, open my drawers, climbing the door and meowing like a Maniac.

Oh goodness, hang in there and get better fast!
Sending good vibes for the playing session!
Thank you! I appreciate that!
 
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RocketPuppy97

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Today was truly amazing!
We finally got around to playing with them in the same room, and let me tell you. I was shocked to see how well behaved my cats were, I nearly cried.
We got two new feather toys for them, because they just can't resist playing with them. My bf was in the bedroom playing with Monty and I was in the hallway playing with Cosmo, after having them both engaged in the play for a while I opend the gate and just continued playinf with Cosmo. Monty looked over a few times but just continued playing as if Cosmo wasn't even there. He came dashing over for my toy two or three times, but no one seemed botherd by it. No negative bodylanguage whatsoever, except one time where Monty seemed a bit nervous after he came to me for the toy and saw Cosmo laying ther, he gave him a short stare but then dashed away for the other toy, playing like normal.
We played like that for 10 minutes or so.
After that they both got a small cup of cat milk to reward them for the excellent playtime.

I'm really happy, because it's the first time ever that they were together without the gate and without treats.
I hope from now one all our playsessions can be like that.
 

calicosrspecial

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I am SO SORRY. I never saw your posts.

The most recent post first (about playing).

AWESOME!!! REALLY well done!! That is exactly what we want. They showed us that they care more about a toy than each other. So that tells me they are more confident than we thought and trust each other more than we thought.

Monty even wanted to join the play with your toy and it was all positive. FANTASTIC!!

Keep up the great work. You are almost there.

Monty is really close and every time they are together and there is no negativity it is a confidence and trust builder.

The fact Cosmo is not acting like prey (running away) helps a lot.

GREAT job!! Keep up the great work!!

Now, my very late response to your post from the other day:

Monty's reaction would be normal. Cosmo would be Cosmo and want to say hi. How they would react is key. If you get more play time together without incidents then that increases the probability of a good reaction when they are together. Then when we do do this we'll want to try to keep them as "normal" as possible, trying to get Cosmo to either not act like prey (run) OR not let Monty see him do that. And then if Cosmo goes towards Monty to try to distract as much as possible. Knowing that play has done a good job at distracting could be a great way to keep them from gtting into a potential bad encounter.

GREAT about the reaction when eating "meh, the other cat". EXACTLY what we have been trying to achieve. GREAT!!

Yep, Cosmo has some energy. Very normal and common. I too deal with the Monty way of early morning life with my cats (especially my oldest girl). It is really hard to eliminate. My guess is down the road Monty and Cosmo will be playing together during the night and early morning.....................

Just do your best and figure out the best way to get the most sleep possible. I think the cats will be fine.

You have done a GREAT job!!! You are almost there. Keep doing the positive associations (food, play) and keep making every encounter as positive as possible and let's see when we can open things up and get these guys together. I think you are really close. Just keep building that trust between them.

I love to read this amazing post. I know exactly that feeling you are feeling. It really is great!! You and your bf have done a GREAT job!!
 
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RocketPuppy97

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So, today was the second playtime with both of them in the same room. Cosmo was in the bedroom and Monty in the hallway. I was a bit nervous at first, because normally when the bedroom door opens, and it's open long enough, Cosmo will dash right out. So I was a bit worried he was gonna dash out and Monty would chase him.
But that's not what happend, he was very invested in the play to the point where he didn't even care that Monty was on the bed with him for a short period of time.
My bf was playing with Monty and he said he wasn't really interessted in Cosmo and that his bodylanguage was good.
We have a short plastic wand with a plush thing at the end of it and Monty loves this thing so much, he'll rip it out of my boyfriends hands and run away, usually he runs to the gate, but as the door was open today he ran under the bed. He came out dashing over the bed and Cosmo didn't mind it that much. A little later into the playtime, Monty was coming into the bedroom more often, without the toy, jumping on the bed and dashing right out again as my bf was distracting him again.

Everything went great except one tiny incident:
Cosmo was laying on his belly playing with me on the bed. Monty came back and jumped on the bed and my boyfriend wasn't really able to distract him in that moment. I noticed him looking at Cosmo and going for his butt. That's when my bf got his attention again and he ran out.
It looked to me like he was going to this biting and pushing down thing. I'm not 100% sure but that's what it looked like.
Cosmo was confused for a moment, because he didn't even really noticed what was going on. After that Monty was coming into the bedroom more and more frequent and we soon called it a day to prevent anything from escalating.
I think this session lasted for 5 minutes.

I'm very pleased, because we were able to distract Monty mid action and get him playing again.
 

calicosrspecial

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That is a fantastic play session. Focusing on the toy and not on the other cat.

It almost sounds like Monty wasn't sure he should be in Cosmo's room or maybe he was trying to get Cosmo to play. But the fact he didn;t attack Cosmo AND could be distracted with a toy is GREAT. AND Cosmo showed Monty that Cosmo does not pose a threat to Monty. Overall, that sounds like a GREAT play session. Exactly what we want to achieve.

The tiny incident actually seems really positive to me. Cosmo was on his belly (which is incredibly vulnerable and a sign of trust). He was showing Monty he is fine with him. AND Monty didn't do anything to him (hurt him, etc). SUre he may have done a bite thing BUT he didn't make contact and it sounds like Cosmo wasn't intimidated. AND Monty came in more frequently after that. So Monty felt more comfortable that Cosmo wasn't a threat. So no real negativity, only positive encounters, and you ended it on a really positive note.

So overall, I say that is exactly what we are looking for. Getting them together with nothing negative happening so they can build that trust. AND when we need to distract they are easily distracted which tells me that they don't fear each other.

I am not exactly sure I can picture the biting at Cosmo's butt and the pushing down thing. Was Monty on top of Cosmo? What was Monty pushing down on? Monty didn't make contact, right? Cosmo was confused but did he act any differently? Especially towards Monty? Sounds like Monty acted more confident after this?

I think you both are doing an amazing job. We'll do this a little longer then we'll want to get them together without play. Probably have Cosmo in the living room hanging out and have Monty come in and have a toy ready to distract. Just get them in the same area relaxing, hanging out, etc. Maybe next weekend we'll try that. And see how they react.

Overall, this is incredibly positive. We may have some moments of negativity (as there are always ups and downs) but they are going to get along.

You two have done incredible work. GREAT JOB!! Our goal was to build that confidence and trust between them and it is obviously showing, We just need to reinforce it a bit more but you are well on the way to success.

I am SO PROUD of you, your bf, Cosmo and Monty!!! :yess::hyper:
 
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RocketPuppy97

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I am not exactly sure I can picture the biting at Cosmo's butt and the pushing down thing. Was Monty on top of Cosmo? What was Monty pushing down on? Monty didn't make contact, right? Cosmo was confused but did he act any differently? Especially towards Monty? Sounds like Monty acted more confident after this?
Cosmo was laying on the bed with his legs strechted out behind him. And Monty was sitting right next to his butt and it seemed like he was starting to jump on Cosmo's butt and made that same face he does right before he tries to grab him.
I don't think he really made contact, maybe for a brief moment with his paws.
No, Cosmo looked around seemingly confsed about what touched him there, but then continued playing normally.
He acted the same towards Monty too.
Monty was a bit hyperactive after that, ran up and down the hallway a few times and then slept on the couch.
 

calicosrspecial

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Do you think it was a "love bite" type thing? Oftentimes a cat will do that quick nip or bite to another cat. I would have to see it but that is what I am thinking it may be.

But overall, I am really not at all worried about it. Nothing bad happened, Cosmo was not bothered, Monty was a little wild after but calmed down. They behaved.

If Monty wanted to hurt him he had every opportunity to and Monty decided not to. That Cosmo is not a threat to his survival etc. So I am really encouraged by what I am reading. Encouraged is an understatement, I am really excited at the progress I am reading.

GREAT JOB!!!
 
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RocketPuppy97

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As a first time catmom I'm not really sure how to interpret every behaviour, so I'm not really sure what it is.

But I'm really excited because we are stedily moving forward, and I can't imagine how it's gonna be when the are finally able to live together, it seems so surreal.
 

calicosrspecial

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I don't think anyone can interpret every behavior so not an issue. I always look at how the cats react after something and that always tells me a lot about how the cats interpreted the behavior. IN your situation, it sounds like it was a non-event which is great.

:) I know exactly how you feel. It really is fantastic when we know success is in reach. And even better when they are living in peace together. You will be experiencing that feeling soon.

For a first time cat mom you have done and amazing job!! And your bf has done an amazing job. It can be challenging and difficult but with effort, desire and knowledge almost anything is achievable.

GREAT work. We'll get you through this last part but all is great and we will have success. We may have a setback but there is no doubt all will be well.

Keep up the great work and thank you so much for saving their lives and giving them a great home!! :thanks::rock:
 
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RocketPuppy97

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Unfortunately we had another peeing incident today. And I don't know why. It must have happened when I was at work.
He peed in one of his usual spots: Where our laundry basket are. 2 Month ago we bought hard plastic ones so he can't per inside of them anymore. After that he just peed on the litter mat all the time and now it has been a few weeks without peeing.
I just came home with a bigger litter box to swap the one in the living room, because I know he doesn't like the hood
 

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Oh gosh, I'm sorry this is happening! I just spent about a week working on getting the smell and stain out of a nearly impossible to clean area. His behavior made no sense (was just in to the vet) except that he seems to have decided that now, once he's used a box he's done with it and the next time wants a clean box. This particular incident occurred when all three boxes had been used once. (There may have been one or two additional misappropriate uses of the area making it so hard to get clean even with an enzymatic cleaner).

Plus, there's a feral who is marking fence gates et al around the yard lately, which doesn't help things at all. Poppy seems to REALLY want his supervised yard time so he can not only patrol, but also do his pee/poop business, and I'm thinking this is coming into play with the litter box misses since the weather is changing and keeping him inside more.

Anyway, the used box thing wasn't ever an issue, or if it was he just put up with it previously and would use a box more than once. I now have another box out (sigh). I typically clean 'em once daily but his kidneys are a little compromised so he's a multi-box cat :).

Hang in there!! My main point with sharing my little saga is that sometimes they make it very challenging!
 
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calicosrspecial

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Unfortunately we had another peeing incident today. And I don't know why. It must have happened when I was at work.
He peed in one of his usual spots: Where our laundry basket are. 2 Month ago we bought hard plastic ones so he can't per inside of them anymore. After that he just peed on the litter mat all the time and now it has been a few weeks without peeing.
I just came home with a bigger litter box to swap the one in the living room, because I know he doesn't like the hood
:( Did he pee in the laundry basket? Or just where they usually are? I wonder if the scent is really gone from that area. Are you using an enzymatic cleaner to clean that area?

Do you have a black light or can you get one? Using a black light can show you any areas where pee may be. It might be a good idea to do this just to rule out if there is any pee around there.

It is possible to put a litter box where the laundry baskets usually are? I know it is not desirable or the best but it might give us a solution.

Let's see if the new litter box instead of the hooded one helps.

Do you think there was anything that may have happened before the incident? Something is causing him to do this. Maybe it is the hooded litter box but I wonder if it is something else. We just need to try to figure it out.

We'll get him to stop since a cat's instinct is to use the litter box. Usually they only go outside because of medical issues or territorial, etc (behavioral) issues.

Furballsmom,

Sounds like the feral is causing territorial insecurity and your cat is telling the feral "this is mine, stay away by getting the scent noticeable. Step up play and feed after play. Give a lot of love (if you can without being hurt in any way) and attention. Give treats. Just anything to build confidence.

A confident cat is going to be more territorially secure. Hang in there, you can solve it.
 

calicosrspecial

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I wondered about that, -- great advice, thank you!
It could also be a negative association thing. Especially pain driven. Try to watch how he goes. If you can sense any discomfort or anything different when he uses the litter box. Cats have a high tolerance for pain so we may not easily see it but can usually tell something is going on with behavior change.

Is he going less than usual? More often? Any changes at all on how he is using or going. Sometimes it can be leg or hip issues, internal pain, etc. But observing could show signs of an issue.

Also, seeing how they walk, move around, jump, hang out, eat, etc. Look for any changes. It could be as simple as stress driven.

Anytime there is an abrupt change there is a reason for it. A feral is usually a good reason (territorial insecurity). But the fact your guy is going in a different one each time might suggest a search for something "better". A situation with less discomfort, or something else.

Sometimes cats just love a clean litter box. But most cats will still use a litter box with use. So I always try to see if I can find any evidence of something else. Could be the litter changed slightly, or the size of the box is too cramped especially as a cat ages. Things like that.

Feel free to send me a message if you need any help, clarification, etc. It is kind of complex and tricky but really important for the cat and the humans.
 
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