Struggling With Play Time

[calicosrspecial]

To Calicosrspecial: Love your user name because calicos are special!

Thanks. TOTALLY AGREE!!

 

[Animal Freak]

I'm going to try to keep this short. I didn't mean to disappear for a bit there, but had my sister's birthday party bowling Saturday and volunteered Sunday. So I wanted to respond today, but I'm exhausted. I wrestled a very muscular pit bull today (fortunately not aggressive, but still very strong) and I don't intend on being up late.

They're all getting really bad about being up on the counters and in the sink. Even Ember. I've seen all three up there today.

The behavior was just so weird for Ash. I've never seen him do that before and I worry since we already know he has arthritis. It didn't help that was being so tolerant. Usually they take off running if you move them half an inch, but he let me shift him without even budging. I sure hope it was just him being comfortable, but am thinking about trying something else for his arthritis. It doesn't bother me too much if it's him not wanting to be moved, especially since it's happened and I know what to expect. But I'd feel awful if he was in pain and I brushed it off as nothing. And he is still a bit sensitive about the other cats going up behind him. Not bad, but he doesn't like it.

Don't think it was play. I've never heard any of them hiss during play. I believe it was a warning and caused by Ember's being behind him. Ember's response is something I'm actually quite proud of. She's been handling all his grumpiness rather well. She does get tense when they play though and there was a minor issue today. I think Frost was trying to play with Ash and Ash made a noise that set Ember off. And then Ash growled at her after she backed off.

I have actually wondered if the cats are, indeed, neutered. I'm no expert, but they seem to get along well. No signs of being territorial or anything, but then again I don't know anything about them or really much about how ferals work. It is winter and has been rather cold. They're also quite tame, but I still sort of feel that they're feral. Mostly because of the orange tabby that I've seen a couple of times. He still seems mostly feral. I've been trying not to look like some creep lingering outside the outside and I don't want to cause any issues, but at the same time am trying to keep track of all the cats. I believe there's two or three black cats, two brown tabbies, and an orange tabby.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Please don't worry, volunteering and family are more important. Wow, it sounds like an interesting dog. Pitties are strong and luckily tend to be sweet but I can imagine how tired you are.

Oh no. They just seem to know where they shouldn't go.................

Yeah, it is different. It is hard to know without being there so I think you should trust your instinct. If it was pain then it would have shown itself the whole time. I am guessing that he was comfortable, I know I get that sometimes. Cats when comfortable don't like to be bothered and some respond differently. Usually if they resist moving at the beginning then their response would be more like what Ash did. My one girl is like that. My boy isn't. The other 2 girls usually don't but 1 will show me that they don't want to get moved.

I am guessing someone ambushed him from behind so he is still leary of someone behind him. That is normal.

That makes sense. Ember was really great. Actually, it is a huge positive. Communication, understanding, moving on. That is what we dream of. That tells me that a lot of progress has been made. Really great.

It is hard to know. Usually if you look you can tell. If you can't see then it would be surprising if two intact males would be getting along. And if you see them mark is a sign (though neutered cats mark too). I have an intact male that has started coming around and he doesn't act like it but he is. I am trying to trap him but he is wily. But if I didn't see he was intact (and that he marks) I would have thought he was neutered.

Can you tell how many males and females there are? You can tell by their head size and their necks.

If you saw my ferals with me you would think they weren't ferals. And they watch people as they walk by. Actually the neighbor's cat acts more feral than my ferals. My point is that it is really hard to know. Feral in my eyes just means a cat that is born outside without a home. True ferals don't want to be seen (and are rarely seen) so cats hanging out really have some interaction with humans. But not every cat that has interaction is neutered or spayed. This intact male feral that just came by was really tame (so maybe he is in a feral colony but he is intact still so........). Now neutered ferals can be territorial, mine are. So territorial can be misleading as well. But intact males will fight and of course seeing any evidence is also telling.

Yes, just be careful because you never know how other people will take it. If they are taking care of the ferals then they could be worried and protective. If the cats are hanging around there I am guessing they are probably wanted. But it is hard to know exactly what is going on if they are neutered etc.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, not sure I'd call him "sweet," but definitely friendly. A little too friendly. He went straight for Stella wanting to sniff and play with her and she's, of course, afraid of bigger dogs. So I had to try to keep him off of her. I'm very sore today and might have pulled something.

Well, Ash laid on my lap a couple of times today and didn't growl when I moved him. He did hiss at Frost who tried to play with him and growled a bit after that, but no issues when me moving him.

Ember really has been doing well all things considered. It would be great if she'd let them play without getting worked up and sometimes attacking Ash, but it's good that she doesn't immediately go after him when he growls or hisses.

Well, I mostly see them huddled up on the porch or from a distance. Can't see if they might be intact males or not. I'll keep an eye out for when they're up and moving and I'll try to pay more attention to head/neck size. I'm not really good with subtle differences like that, but if I see them next to each other again I might be able to see any differences. As it is, I don't catch many details because I try not to stand outside the house too much. I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell though. The two tabbies are long hair and the black cat is a bit chubby.

I will be careful. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with someone who cares for cats.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I know what you mean. They can be VERY friendly and not realize how big and strong they really are. I hope you didn't pull something, that is not good.

That is good you could move him and he was ok. Now, did Frost try to play with him when Ash was on your lap still? If Ash was still on your lap that is understandable, he didn't want to be bothered when he was comfortable and happy.

Yes but play can get cats worked up so it is understandable. Some cats don't know how to play with others because of how they were raised. The really important and great thing is she doesn't attack when growled at etc. That tells me she trusts them which is really important and that she is understands when there is just communication and not a threat. That is what we want to achieve with intros etc.

It is hard. Just do your best. I am guessing that the person in that house is taking care of them at least somewhat. Hopefully they are neutered/spayed but I am guessing they more likely are based on what you are telling me. But that is the sense I get but I don't know for sure without seeing the situation.

That is good and so very true.

I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

[Animal Freak]

I don't think it's of any fault of the dog, honestly. They don't know what they aren't taught and many people just don't want to take the time to teach their dog. But you can't not train a dog and then let it be in a situation where it's definitely going to fail. It's not fair for the dog. I'm feeling better today though. It was actually worse when I got up to feed the animals, but it's progressively gotten better.

Well, at the point I had Ash next to me and, yes, I do believe Frost tried playing with him. At first I wasn't sure if Ash was going to play with him or if he wanted him gone since the behaviors are similar, but the hiss pretty much cleared that up.

She's been with the boys her whole life and plays with them in the same manner, so I don't think it's a lack of knowing how, but she definitely doesn't like it when they play. It would be nice if they could play though.

We did have some issues last night. Nothing too major, but I'm not sure how to go about preventing it from happening again. I went into my room to get Ember's bowl to feed them. Ember was the furthest in my room and Ash wasn't far behind him. I was right behind Ash. Frost came running into my room and right past Ash. Ash flipped out and hissed at Frost, freaking Ember out. I tried nudging Ash out since 1)Ember was stuck in my room with no escape and 2)Ember always reacts worse when she's blocked away from my room or Ash is in there when these issues happen. Well, that was a mistake. He made a noise at me and Ember went flying at him, managing to fling herself around so she was in front of him and swatted at him. I'm thinking she does, in fact, use claws, but barely touches him. She tears clumps of fur off of his chest like it's nothing, but her paw barely reached the edge of his fur. But her getting in front of him blocked off the exit, so Ash couldn't get out. I manage to move Ember, but she went into the dining room which still kept her in the way. I picked her up and Ash came out. However, he stayed right by the hall and the second I made a move towards my room, he tried going that way, so I had to get my mom to get him away so I could take Ember to my room and shut her in there. It wouldn't have been such a big deal if it wasn't for their positioning though. Ember hates not having access to my room when she gets in that mood even if she doesn't actually want to be in there.

I hope the cats are neutered. I'll keep an eye out and try to get pictures if I can. I haven't been out in a couple of days though. It's so cold outside and my mom is nervous about that dog being loose again. And I'm not sure I was ready to take the dog on again, honestly. I'm going to have to take precautions. I'd like to get out tomorrow.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Was the dog at the place you volunteered or was it a loose dog in the neighborhood? I have a feeling it was a loose dog. Oh my. I agree. At least you are better now.

That makes sense. I think Ash didn't want to be bothered, he was comfortable and told Frost "not now".

They play together more with a toy though, right? Or do they play with just themselves without human interaction?

This stuff happens fairly often for the reasons you point out. Startled. Blocked. Escalates. BUT nothing really happened. A little fur but it doesn't sound like anyone was injured. How did they act after it? That was just bad luck bad timing. No one meant to cause trouble or hurt anyone but they got scared and it escalated. But it ended without real incident. Sadly, it just happens sometimes and it is very hard to prevent. Just trying to stay calm and just try to get them distracted is all we can really do. I know your mom is more sensitive to things like that, how did she take it?

I hope so too. I am guessing they are but it is hard to know without seeing them. Just be careful.

 

[Animal Freak]

It was a loose dog just down the street from me. I've never seen the dog loose before so I'm hoping it was just an accident and the dog escaped the backyard or something. I definitely can't have that keep happening though. It's not good for me physically or Stella mentally.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. I'm just worrying over everything because I'm afraid his arthritis will end up getting worse and he'll be in pain without me knowing it. I don't want him to be in pain any longer than he has to be, so I'm looking for signs and probably looking into things a little too much.

They do play with toys on their own sometimes. Mostly Frost, sometimes Ember. Ash usually just goes crazy and runs around the house like there's a ghost. And they take turns playing with me. But sometimes they "wrestle" with each other. I use the word "wrestle" lightly since most of it consists of staring each other down and lashing their tails. Ember participates in this. She plays with Frost (who seems to turn her down more and more lately) and sometimes Ash. But if Ash and Frost attempt the same thing, she gets tense and watches them until someone moves and then she'll go after Ash.

Well, I didn't give them much of a chance since it didn't seem likely they'd be chilling out until they had food and I couldn't supervise them and feed them at the same time. So I just shut Ember in my room while I made their food and left the door open after giving it to her. Once food was involved, there wasn't an issue. My mom seemed mostly annoyed that I asked her to help me get Ash out of the way. The worst of the fight happened in my room, so she didn't have to deal with much.

There was a bit of an incident last night too though I guess it was really my fault. I had to get laundry out of the way and took it with me to my room when I went to get Ember's bowl. I couldn't see where I was going and Ash, of course, had to run in front of me and then stop. I hit him with my toe a bit. Not hard, but it was enough to get a hiss from him. Fortunately, didn't escalate, but caused a bit of tension nonetheless.

I will. I didn't go out today after all, but once I get back out I'll take precautions and maybe bring my camera with me so I can get pictures of the cats.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Now I understand. Yes, that is not good for anyone. Hopefully it is a one off thing.

It is understandable and good to keep an eye on him. It does seem pretty innocent and not pain related which is good. I would just keep monitoring him and learning the nuances between the difference behaviors.

I have a girl that is exactly like Ash. She did it outside when she was a feral and does it inside. Just loves to run back and forth, up and down, etc. My outside ferals really wrestle. Your wrestle is a little different. That all sounds normal. All very common.

That sounds like you did well. It is hard and it is too bad it was bad luck and happened. But it sounds like it really wasn't an issue and even better it doesn't sound like your mom was upset by it which is really important.

Oh I know. Cats LOVE to get in front of people. My outside ferals do that ALL THE TIME. And then I accidentally kick them or something and they act like it is the end of the world then they get their food and all is forgotten. Getting a hiss is normal, I wouldn't worry about it. I am sure he was unsure what or who it was and then he realized it was you and all was fine. I wouldn't worry.

You are smart, I know you will do fine.

 

[Animal Freak]

I will most definitely be keeping an eye on him and plan on trying different medicines in case it is his arthritis and he needs a little extra something. No strong medicines, but something with more than just glucosamine.

Ash goes crazy pretty much at least once a day. Fortunately, he seems to have calmed down at night. He can go a little crazy shortly after eating. Their wrestle is like slow motion other than their lashing tails. They stare each other down and make slow, hesitant movements as they test each other. It's actually rather boring to watch them except for the occasions they really get into it. Then someone usually hits a wall or some other equally hard object.

It wasn't an easy situation. It all just happened at a bad time in a bad place. I consider myself lucky that Ember trusts me and lets me pick her up without a problem in those situations, but I don't like pushing my luck by carrying her too close to Ash and he just didn't want to get out of the way.

I'm not particularly worried about him hissing at me. What concerned me was that it very easily could have turned into another situation like the day before. There's not much I can do to prevent those situations, though, other than moving into a more open house or tearing this house down and rebuilding it. Neither of which is something that can easily be done.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am glad that the glucosamine seems to be working well so far.

Mine is a little younger than Ash but she is slowing down also. It is good he isn't getting too wild at night. A lot of times they love to get wild either right before bed or once I am in bed.

That does sound pretty slow (thank goodness). My ferals really wrestle. It gets a little too much.

Yes. It happens. The good news is it was over and they moved on. Yes, Ember is very good.

Yes. Ember would defend you. Thankfully it didn't result in anything which is a good positive. It happens in big houses, small houses, outside, etc. They just like to get under our feet sadly.

 

[Animal Freak]

Ash's crazy times are fairly unpredictable. They happen frequently shortly after a meal even though I would think he'd calm down then. But they don't always happened then. And it can happen anywhere from once to three times a day, but he has slowed down. It normally happens once or twice and no longer occurs late in the night like it used to. It's entertaining to watch, but no fun to listen to when you're trying to sleep.

Haha. It is extremely slow. Sometimes they only ever touch each other a couple of times before the game is over. It used to be completely silent too, but Frost has gotten vocal, especially playing with Ember. It scared me the first few times it happened because I didn't know what was going on. Never hissing though. If there's a hiss I know it's beyond play.

Ember really is a fantastic little cat. She's so good about her claws. I haven't tested it with Ash so far. He's the only one I'd worry about lashing out at me, but I don't think he would. Of, if he'd did, I think he'd be aware enough to know not to push it too much.

Well, I probably should have known better than to carry an armload of clothes to my room at feeding time. It's a given that they're going to be under my during that time.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes, they can be. I have found they can also happen before or after using the litter box as well. It is actually great he has so much energy. That energy could be causing some of the issues you have seen. But a cat having a lot of energy is good, it tells me he is healthy and happy. At night is the worst especially when they wake us up.................. Glad Ash isn't doing that anymore.

Interesting. That is funny. Cats...........................

She is. She just loves you. And she behaves. Cats are very aware of their claws. It is rare when they make a mistake (though they can and do). I sense Ash would never intend to hurt you. They would have to be really in fear to do that I think.

Hahahahaha, been there and done it. I know but sometimes we still do. :/

 

[Animal Freak]

I'm pretty sure his running around in the dark has been the cause of some issues. Ember sometimes seems to react without paying attention to who it is. Even after the fact, she'll sometimes sniff Ash and then walk past him and look around like she's looking for an intruder. I am glad he feels good enough to run around and it's funny to watch him.

Oh, I don't think Ash would intentionally hurt me. At least not cause any significant damage. But he isn't afraid to use claws and teeth to get his point across as it is. He's very aware of how far to push, but if he's being attacked then I could see him just reacting due to that mindset. It would be my own fault, of course.

So I just got home earlier today, around 11a.m. I've been gone since Friday night. Earlier when Ember rolled over to get attention, I noticed that the fur on the bottom part of her belly down her back legs looked much shorter than the rest. When I looked, I could see it was definitely shorter. It looks like someone shaved her fur off. I mean, it's no more than half the length of the rest. And it's very clean looking. Not patchy and almost perfectly straight lines. My mom was as surprised as I was. We can't figure out what's going on, why her fur is like that. You can see it watching her walk when you stand behind her because the inside of her legs are just about bald. I'm going to be posting in the health section to get opinions.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I agree. And it is understandable for the other cats to react. It can be really funny to see them go so wild. Especially when they are older.

Once again I agree with you.

That is a good idea to post. I wonder if it just is from grooming or from rubbing on things (the ground) etc. Do you think it is different or that you never really noticed before? I am interested to see what others think. It doesn't seem too worrying though. But let's see what others say.

 

[Animal Freak]

It's funny seeing a big, somewhat intimidating adult cat looking and acting like a kitten. I'm always entertained watching him run with his tail sticking straight up and slightly fluffed up.

It's definitely different. I'm not sure when it started, if I missed the beginning of it, but I know it wasn't always like that. I see her belly pretty much every day, oftentimes multiple times a day and it stands out because it's so much lighter than the rest of her. I didn't even know she had that much white on her! And I can see how bald the inside of her legs are when she's walking away from me. So far the theory is stress, but I'm not entirely sure why.

 

[calicosrspecial]

It really is, I know exactly what you mean. I love to hear that he is running around with his tail straight up. Confidence!! Awesome.

She doesn't seem stressed from what you have written here. But it could be that. When she walks do her legs rub together? Do you see her grooming there at all? Does she seem sensitive there at all? Or does her skin look rough or a different color? Just be careful touching there so you don't get hurt.

 

[Animal Freak]

Haha. Yeah, the tail is always up as straight as a stick when any of them get in that mood. And his tail fluffs out a bit though there's definitely no fear.

She sure doesn't seem stressed, but she hasn't been following her nightly routine. There's been one night she didn't come to bed at all, once she came at midnight, and the other two nights she was late, but not quite as late. I sometimes go looking for her because it drives me crazy and I worry about her getting locked up somewhere.

I have not seen her legs run together. I've seen her from in the area some, but not much and it's a pretty large area, so it seems she's bound to groom there. I've felt her belly and she doesn't seem sensitive and the skin looks fine (though I haven't seen much of their skin before). She seems totally fine other than the fur being gone. Which is another thing. We can't figure out where the fur went. There's clumps all over the place, but it all looks like Ash's. She does eat fur, but that's a lot!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Wow, you are on early today.

That is cute and terrific!!

It is not unusual for routines to change a little. Now since Ember has such a bond with you it is a little more unusual but not enough to worry in my opinion since she still came in. And often times as they get more comfortable and confident they will move away from a (safer) routine.

Hmmmmmmmm, it doesn't sound like anything obvious.

Is it just shorter fur there? Or shorter and thinner? Or is it bald there?

In the first sentence in that last paragraph was "from" supposed to be "groom"? I think auto correct changed it probably.

 

[Animal Freak]

Yeah. I've been on and off. Part of why I responded late is because I'm not on my laptop much during the day and don't like toping on my tablet, but if it's fairly short I don't mind.

It drives me crazy when she doesn't come though. I might be too attached. Lol. It's a huge relief when she does come.

It's short and pretty thin. Nearly bald in some areas. My mom pointed out that in places it actually looks like new fur growing in, but I don't see any way for her to have gone bald and grown fur workout my noticing. That would take a while.

Oh, yeah. Whoops. I usually catch those mistakes. My tablet let's me swipe through the letters to make a word, so it's not always accurate. Seems like it's gotten worse lately too. I think my tablet is wanting give out on me.