Struggling With Play Time

[calicosrspecial]

You are a wonderful parent to them.

Given time I think they will probably get closer. It always depends on the personalities but Ember is doing her part. Stella just needs to build more trust. You are right, the fast movements can be unsettling. But the more she realizes that the cats don't mean anything she will be more trusting and get use to the movements.

Very good, the treats can be high in calories. I have to watch mine with human food as well.

They love to sneak up on their prey, it really is cute whether around a corner, or up on something. Good hunters.

It is good that they are getting over it quickly but I would like to see that they no longer feel the need to do that. They still seem to be testing each other or working things out. Does it mostly happen right before feeding? Is it usually in about the same place? There could be a food competition going on. Or just a negative association in that area. At least it is not escalating into a fight. If at all possible I would like to get to the point where Ember doesn't need to be locked away. I am concerned that she may take it negatively and it could lead to continued negative associations with Ash. I don't think it is an issue yet especially because she was eating while he walked by after it happened but I do think we need to watch it.

Just be careful picking her up when she is in that mode. Cats can redirect some aggression and I don't want you to get hurt. I would prefer you to use a pillow or a piece of cardboard or something to block the site and distract.

It does bother me that she seemed to be more focused on him this time. And the body language. Keep working on them so that when they are together they are getting along, no incidents, etc. The more they are together and nothing happens the more they will trust each other. If they start focusing on each other try to distract.

I just wonder if it is food related in that area that they get more "amped up". You may want to consider putting the cans out a bit early and having them more accessible so that when you feed it is a quicker process and they aren't around for as long and more likely to get "into it".

 

[sabian]

Hello calicosrspecial and animal freak. I ran across this post and admittedly have not read it in entirety and I commend you for your efforts and do not want to seem negative but, the reality is this may not be able to be resolved. I'm not saying to give up but this may be the reality of it. Let me explain.

I recently lost 2 cats. One was a Maine Coon I got from a breeder. He was almost 16 when he passed with cancer. The other was just a domestic short hair solid black and weighed around 11 pounds. She just showed up at my house a year or 2 after I got my Maine Coon. It was during an ice storm that she showed up and I just took her in. It was estimated that she was 3 months when I took her to the vet to get shots and be fixed. I'm not sure about the dates but she was around 14 when she just disappeared. Not sure what happened to her but I think an owl may have got her.

My Maine Coon weighed about 23 pounds and was absolutely the best animal you could ask for in every respect. He was just amazing. He was an indoor outdoor cat and so was Blackie the stray. Tama was my Maine Coons name.

Tama always stayed close by to me. He spent more time inside and would go out for a couple hours and was ready to come in. Blackie was independent and insisted on being outside most of the time. She would come in to eat and she was ready to go back out. She would snort and pace back and forth until you finally let her out. Even some winter nights when it would be in the teens she insisted on being outside. I would try and get her to stay in but, she just wouldn't do it. Then again, some times she would but everything was on her terms. I just let het do what she wanted. The way I looked at it was, she had food and a home and she was happy and not a stray. She made it 14+ years and she wouldn't have other wise.

She never liked to be held not matter how much I tried. She would let you rub her but you had to be careful how you rubbed her or she would haul off and bite you or slap at you. I always warned people that come over about rubbing her. I had been around her so long I could tell by the look on her face when she was getting ready to bite.

She was the same way toward Tama. When she would come in the house to eat she would run straight over to Tama and put her head down and head would lick her head. She always done it. He would give her love bites. Not hard at all! Kind like when they bite at fleas. It never failed that she would end up hissing and swatting at him. He was twice her size and could have kicked her little butt but, he never did. Not once in all those years! He never even hissed back. He would just pull his face back and stick a paw out and strong arm her. He had so much fur she couldn't scratch him, just got a paw of fur.

Me and Tama got along with her by staying out of her way and letting her do her thing when she was in her moods. When I was alone with her outside she was fine but if Tama was out side also she hogged the attention. If I would call Tama she would run over and Tama wouldn't come. I think it was a jealousy thing. She just resented the fact that Tama was there, period! I thought about rehoming her. I think she would have been a better cat had she been an only cat. She may have had some psychological issues. I'm not really sure.

I look back, shoulda, woulda, coulda! Sometimes I think it wasn't fair to Tama to have made him deal with her and not fair to her for not finding her the right home. I did the best I could and over all they both led happy lives but, it went on for 14 years and nothing ever changed. She did get more mellow with age. They actually, at times, when she would want to stay inside, would sleep in the bed together peacefully. There was always space between them and they never snuggled but they could exist in harmony at times. I think when I came into the picture is when she started and felt like she needed or wanted all the attention. Me and Tama had plenty of alone time when she was outside but he never acted like he had to compete for attention. He was always willing to back away and let her have her time and attention with me. It would have been nice though if Tama could have had a companion that was more harmonious. He really deserved that. He could have gotten along with any cat that I would have brought into the house provided they met him half way. He even got along with the neighbor hood cats. None of them ever thought about messing with him.

Obviously your trying to do the right thing and I'm not saying give up. It seems there was harmony between your other 2 cats before the third showed up. Now they all seem to be having problems. Is it worth tormenting the other 2 cats for the sake of the one is the question I think I would ask myself. In my case they were going out side but, had they both been indoor only in a confined space, I may have done things differently.

Just some things to think about. Not judging or giving advice. Just sharing my experience with something somewhat similar. Hope it helps and wish you the BEST of luck!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Sabien,

I am so sorry about your loss. It is never easy but I hope you know that from my perspective you did an amazing job for both of them. It sounds like they both had long, happy and healthy lives. Without you I am sure their lives would not have been anywhere near as good as they ended up having. I know there is nothing I can say to ease the pain but thank you so much for loving and taking care of your two cats as well as you did. It sounds like you did your best (and it was terrific) and I hope you never have doubts. Please look back with pride. When I hear your story I am very proud and appreciative of what you did for both of them.

Thank you very much for your post, it helps remind us to think as to what is best for all involved. I remain optimistic because of the positive changes so far and the knowledge and desire of Animalfreak. I promise to keep your question in mind and I know Animalfreak will do what is best as her love for Ember, Ash, Frost and Stella is extraordinary. I have total trust.

Please always feel free to join in as an extra set of eyes is always helpful. Thank you so much for your thoughts and your best wishes.

 

[Animal Freak]

That's what I'm hoping for. I hope they'll all live together happily someday. I don't expect them to be best friends, but I think Frost and Stella could be something close it as they already get along and Ember has gotten so much better. I don't think Ash will ever particularly like the dog, but he's come to tolerate her.

I would definitely like to see Ember relax a bit more. She's a very jumpy cat in general and she gets startled easily. When the issues were at their worst, it was mostly right before eating and in the middle of the night. After we got through that, it pretty came to an end with only a few small things here and there, but now it seems like it's starting to pick up again. So far, it's not really specifically during feeding time, but it's happening then more often. I guess I should start playing with them in the kitchen again since I started to slack off. I wasn't worried about it since there weren't any issues, but I guess I should keep it up to prevent any problems. I'm trying to keep a closer eye on them during feeding times, but I'm also trying to stay calm and not tense up. If I think they might be near each other, I'll glance over to make sure they aren't about to start anything. We haven't had any issues today other than Frost hissed at Ember which I didn't actually see, but I heard. That was the first in a little while now.

I know. I probably have too much faith in Ember, but she has literally never intentionally put a claw on me. I've held her while letting her look down at Ash and, no matter how tense she is, she will not get even close to breaking skin. She will put claws in my clothes, but she's very good about not piercing skin.

I'll go back to working with them in the kitchen and together in general. Starting to get ready to feed them early might be a good idea too. I'll figure out a time for the training sessions too. I stopped that when I started school again because I had to refigure my routine and I've been trying to get Ember to lose weight on top of that.


@sabian,
I appreciate your input and understand your point, but believe me when I say I've had all of these thoughts before. When the situation was at it's worst, I became extremely worried that I'd have to rehome someone, but how do you even go about picking who stays and who goes? The boys have been here for six years, but I don't think Ember could handle such a big change. She's a sensitive cat which is why we have these issues. I'll be the first to admit she'd probably be better off alone, but the move alone could be traumatizing for her. I'd stress myself out wondering if she's getting the attention and care she deserves too.

We're also going to be moving. The trip there is a terrifying idea since we're leaving the state, but I think it'll be for the best for all of us. We'll get them a bigger house so they can have more personal space and I think that'll help. Our house is fairly small and it's not the kind of house I expected to have three cats and a hyper dog in, but I didn't really expect to have a dog and she probably did some damage to the peace as well. Especially since Ash would go after the dog and then Ember would go after Ash. She doesn't like others being aggressive.

The issues did not start right off the bat either. We've have three cats for over three years and the majority of the issues have happened in the past year or so. So we actually managed about two years with three cats and rather few issues.

Again, I do appreciate your concern and your input is valued, but I think I'm going to have to keep trying with them. Our situation may always be precarious, but I'm willing to work with it if it means they live together happily. Really, they all get along more often than they don't though it may not seem like it reading this thread. Ember and Ash will lay next to each other on the top of the cat stand, sometimes even on top of each other. They'll play on occasion and their relationship is fairly good despite the issues. Ember uses him for warmth in the winter and he tolerates it. I took them on as my responsibility. They --Ember especially-- wouldn't be here, in this situation, if it wasn't for me. Now I have to work on giving them the best lives I can.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Has the recent increase in incidents coincided with you going back to school? And do you think you may be more stressed recently?

Let's try to get them their food quicker during feeding time so there is less anticipation and less time for them to start something and just reassure them by saying "it's ok" or something that might give them confidence and keep them at ease. Let's see if that helps. My ferals get into it when they are waiting for their food sometimes (like this morning) so I wonder if shortening the wait might be helpful. And the more incident free feeding time is it should help them be more calm going forward.

Just try to make any encounter they have as positive as possible even if it is for a short time. And keep trying to associate them with good things.

It is great that you have faith in her and you trust her and that is why she has faith in you and trusts you. It is tricky because when they are in a real fight they get "blind" almost and something bad can happen (though it isn't intentional). For what it is worth, I need to remember my advice at times as well.

I had a hiss last night between two cats that totally love each other. I have no idea what happened but the one told the other one to "knock it off" what ever it was. Then it was back to normal.

Don't worry, there are always ups and downs but I think you have made good progress and am confident you will continue. You know what you are doing and you have the desire to improve it. I have a feeling Frost, Ash, Ember and Stella think they have a great life. I am not worried.

 

[Animal Freak]

I'm not entirely sure. I am very bad at keeping track of time. I think it started a bit after starting school, bit it could have taken time for my own stress to build. I'm typically more relaxed at home once I get away from school, but I could definitely have more stress on me due to school stuff. I'm also wondering if it might have something to die with their lack of play. They finally started playing again last night though not much. We had a small incident during feeding time, but nothing severe and they were back to normal within moments. Maybe it's my stress and their lack of play. Maybe my stress caused their lack of play.

I'll work on feeding them quicker. One thing that adds to the time it takes to make their food is giving Ash his medicine. There's not much I can do about that, but it does increase how long it takes.

I guess when I jump in the middle of a cat fight and get torn up I'll learn my lesson. Maybe. I have learned that I am very good at jumping into cat fights. I figured that out with Embers mom who always went after Frost. Fortunately, I was usually able to jump in before it went past chasing only ever got minor injuries.

I'm glad we don't have as many problems as we used to. Ember seems a lot more secure than she was. I would like to see her a little less jumpy, but, really, they all are. No clue why. I barely move my hand and they'll jump.

 

[calicosrspecial]

It is always difficult to know exactly. We can have stress and it can get picked up on by the cats with us not even knowing we are really stressed. They are very sensitive. It could be that they aren't playing as much but if they don't want to. I don't think your stress would cause them not to play.

The fact they got back to normal in moments after their "encounter" that is a positive.

Yes, it is hard with Ash. Maybe get Ember her food then fix Ash's? Or would Ash take that hard?

I do the same and get admonished for it as well. I always try to remember to be careful.

Yes, I think you have made great progress. I am really happy how Ember has been acting. As they get more confident and build trust they will become less jumpy. We just have to keep working on building that confidence and trust. I have all former ferals, they all grew up on the street so they were jumpy, some of them for a while after coming in. Keep using food and making the encounters as positive as possible.

We'll get there. I really believe that.

 

[Animal Freak]

Sometimes they seem to be a little more difficult when I'm tired so it wouldn't have really surprised me if my stress affected their play. Of course, I don't know for sure, but it feels like it's easier to get them to play when I'm enjoying it as well which I usually do once I get them going a bit. Who knows with them though.

I was happy with how quickly they got over it. There weren't many signs anything happened at all, really. The only reason I knew it happened was because there was a small, but irregular noise and Ash had been walking behind me so he ended up pressed against my legs so I looked back to see him kind of hunched over and her giving him the stink eye.

Honestly, that might not be a bad option. They're all usually pretty good about going to their own spots. They know where they get fed and I do it in the same order every night so I don't think it would take too long for them to get over it. I only worry about those occasions where they all decide they want someone else's food. However, we didn't have any issues tonight. Not even close calls. There didn't seemed to be any tension whatsoever so I think I'll leave it be for now and see how it goes. I've been getting everything out earlier though I need to do it even earlier so they don't have food on the mind when I'm trying to play with them. If it doesn't seem to help I'll try feeding Ember first. Maybe I could get their food ready at the same time, feed the other two, and then put Ash's medicine in and feed him. That way he doesn't have to wait too long, but the others can get it a bit quicker.

Ember really has come a long way. One random sign of that is that she no longer takes off when I shake a bag. Sometimes I have to get in the pantry to find a bag to clean out litter boxes with and I have to make sure there aren't any holes in it. I used to have to be really careful because if I made too much noise she'd take off running. I did it recently while they were eating and she only glanced over before going back to her food. It's such a small thing, but I was really happy that she didn't feel the need to run off.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I notice it with myself as well. They can feed off the energy we have.

It is great that there isn't any lasting impact. That really is the key tell. Now, we would love for it to not happen at all but things happen.

That is great there were no incidents last night. Just use your judgement and see what works best. I always try to distract the cat that is most likely to cause issue first so that they are occupied eating then work on he ones that are more patient. Then I distract the one or ones that finish first. Trying to make the event as positive and non-eventful as possible. I know you will do what is best.

That is great about Ember. That is a sign of increased trust and confidence. A great sign. It really is things like that that help us assess where a cat is. I am proud of what you have done with Ember.

 

[Animal Freak]

Absolutely no one wants to play anymore. I got Ash interested in it for a minute or two. Ember showed no interest. Apparently the whole five minutes she spent chasing and eating that fly tired her out. I want to get the laser pointer out since I know she'll play with that, but I've no clue where it is. It's so small it's nearly impossible to keep track of.

We've had two incident free nights now. They all seem very calm. Even Ash acts like that nothing ever happened.

I am extremely proud of Ember and how far she's come. I think if she could just get a little more confidence I won't have to worry so much about traumatizing her when we move. She's definitely a lot better than where she started though.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Just keep trying. Sometimes they tire of the toy or they get a bit lazy etc. My ferals were watching a squirrel eat their hard food yesterday. If a feral doesn't want to play with a real life squirrel.................... It happens.

Keep up the great work. It is great to hear they are calm. The more days like that the more trust they will have. There are always ups and downs but you are doing things that are helping them. great work.

I am really proud of you and Ember. You are helping her be more confident. The human is so important in the process.

Keep up the great work. They'll play when they want to, in the meantime just keep associating them with good things and making the interactions as positive as possible.

 

[Animal Freak]

Lol. That makes me feel a bit better. I don't think even my lazy cats would simply let a squirrel eat their food. Really, I wouldn't worry about it so much if Ember wasn't overweight. The other two I don't bother a whole lot. If they play, they play. If not, then oh well. But I'd really like Ember to lose a little weight. I don't know why it bothers me so much. Plenty of people have obese cats which is just ridiculous. Ember is nothing like that. I guess I just feel like I'm doing something wrong if one of my cat's is even a little over or underweight. It seems like Ember might have a slow metabolism though. I don't think she's lost much -- if any -- weight at all even with playing and I've cut her back on the food she gets. She only sometimes gets human food and only in very small amounts.

I hope we can keep this up. They've all been getting along quite well. At least from what I can see anyway. I'm gone for a good part of the day, but I don't think they do much in that time.

Thanks. You've helped us a ton too. I wouldn't have known what to do if you hadn't helped me out. I love cats, but they can be difficult. Definitely not as low maintenance as people like to believe. Still lower than the dog though.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hahahaha. I was surprised at them as well. I don't understand them.

I understand your concern about Ember. It is always best to try to have them at a good weight. Please do not blame yourself, I am sure you take very good care of her. When mine get a little overweight and play isn't doing it I just cut back the food slightly. You want to take it gradual though. Just talk to your vet about what is best if the play isn't working.

I know you can continue having them get along. If they were acting badly when you are away you would see it when you are there. They would at least act differently or get into it when you are around. I am guessing they are just sleeping when you are gone.

You are very welcome but it is you that really helped them. You deserve all the credit. People don't realize that the human is actually so important in the cat's behavior.

I think you are in a great place. I am always here if you need advice or anything but I am confident they are in great hands and all will be well.

GREAT job!! Keep up the great work.

 

[Animal Freak]

I didn't respond! I didn't mean to do that. I'm sorry. I guess I forgot and then I went on a trip over the weekend and was too busy to get on.

We found the laser light. It doesn't work. I'm going to get a new one and try that though I don't prefer it. I might try cutting back on her food a bit, but I've already done that and I don't want to cut back too much.

They all seem to be getting along fine. My mom didn't say anything about them misbehaving. I just got back after eight last night so I don't really have much to say. I wasn't here for any of the feeding or playing or whatnot. Ember is using on my lap. Stella is just a bit further down and Frost is in the couch too. No clue where Ash is though.

 

[BelcoCat]

That's how my cat is playing...

 

[calicosrspecial]

I didn't respond! I didn't mean to do that. I'm sorry. I guess I forgot and then I went on a trip over the weekend and was too busy to get on.

We found the laser light. It doesn't work. I'm going to get a new one and try that though I don't prefer it. I might try cutting back on her food a bit, but I've already done that and I don't want to cut back too much.

They all seem to be getting along fine. My mom didn't say anything about them misbehaving. I just got back after eight last night so I don't really have much to say. I wasn't here for any of the feeding or playing or whatnot. Ember is using on my lap. Stella is just a bit further down and Frost is in the couch too. No clue where Ash is though.

It is ok. It is actually great that you are enjoying yourself and not worrying about them. I hope you enjoyed your trip.

I know you know what is best for Ember.

It sounds like they had a great weekend as well. What a wonderful thing to have Ember on you, Stella near and Frost right there!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

That's how my cat is playing...

THAT is awesome!!! Your cat is loving it!!

 

[Animal Freak]

It is ok. It is actually great that you are enjoying yourself and not worrying about them. I hope you enjoyed your trip.

I know you know what is best for Ember.

It sounds like they had a great weekend as well. What a wonderful thing to have Ember on you, Stella near and Frost right there!!

It was an exhausting trip for sure. I think we got lost four or five times in two days.

Everything is still going well. I ordered a new laser light and one of those Da Bird toys so hopefully that'll be here soon.

It's always great to have them around. Ember has been laying on me a lot. Maybe she's making up for not saying hello to me when I got home.

That's how my cat is playing...

That's fantastic! I'd love to get my cats to play with anything at this point.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Oh wow, you need a vacation from your vacation!! It is so easy to get lost but you figured it out and made it. At least you have the cats and Stella to relax with now!!

Da bird is a great toy, they tend to love that. And Ember likes her laser.

So glad to hear they are doing well. You have done a great job and I know you will continue to.

Awwwww, she missed you. I think she just loves you. Wonderful!!!

 

[Animal Freak]

It was definitely not a relaxing vacation, though it was an interesting one.

Their toys came in today. The wand toy came with three pieces to alternate between. I thought there were two. I'm tempted to keep one just because it's so soft. The laser light is rather large and heavy and came in its own case. Fanciest laser light I've ever seen. Hopefully it'll be harder to lose. And it has a switch so I don't have to hold a button down. It's very bright too. You can see it clearly in the kitchen from the living room with the light on. Ember and Stella love it.

There was some slapping last night while I was making dinner but I just said something and they split up. After that it was like nothing ever happened.