Officially Started Them on Raw!

[ldg]

:lol3: Well, I'm pretty sure a freezer in a garage in Phoenix is better than a freezer outside in NJ! :lol3:

And curiousityscats, apart from all the transition threads in the forum :lol3: , Carolina provided a good summary of the transition tips and resources in a thread started in the "raw diet transitioners" social group, here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241623/raw-transition-resources-thread

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Does it get pretty hot in NJ in the summer? Have you got it in the shade at least?  I guess you're right though...inside is better than outside, no matter how hot or cold it gets.  It's just that in a garage, there's no air conditioning, no breeze, etc., so it gets pretty darned hot in there.  Our electric companies always advise not to put appliances out there.

So...I've been starting to fill that baby up.  Yesterday I got Nature's Variety Organic Chicken, Nature's Variety Lamb (only because they did not have Bravo Lamb and I was desperate to get some food!), and S & C FROZEN Surf and Turf.  I'm really going outside the box with these purchases.  The Organic Chicken was the only item on my list, but the store didn't have what I wanted, and I was seriously down to about 2 raw meals left so had to get something.  They also gave me some sample patties of FROZEN S & C duck, chicken and beef.

This morning we tried the NV Organic Chicken, and Callie and Darko liked it

.  Tinky did not.  I'm just happy Darko did, because lately he's been walking away and I've been having to resort to Fortiflora to get him to eat, which I don't really like.  So good news there.  Next we sampled the NV Lamb, and ALL THREE liked it

.    I forget what is thawing for the next meal.  I think I've got one S & C patty waiting, plus more of what I know they like, since they'll need more than one patty! 

So...I was thinking that perhaps I could make my own little 1 oz nuggets out of the Bravo pork and lamb, since those need supplements added, and maybe I should buy some boneless ground something or another (perhaps at a butcher shop or have a butcher grind it) and make nuggets out of that too,  to add every once in awhile in case of constipation.  After the discussion in another thread about even Radcat causing constipation, now I'm paranoid.  Anyway, I figure either I could make the nuggets by using an ice cube tray, OR, (since I have the space), a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper and just put the 1 oz plops on it and freeze them, then put them all in a ziploc bag.  That would sure be easier in the long run then bagging each 1 - 2 oz serving when still in the "loose" form, wouldn't it.  (I'm talking about the stuff you have to add supplements to.  So, it's ok to thaw that first, obviously, in order to add the supplements?  And this is where that Alnutrin comes into play?  (I'll admit, with my first chub of Bravo, I didn't add any supplements, because I always just mixed it in with something else, and figured they were covered, since it was never a full meal just of that!  But now that I will be buying more, and also buying their lamb to try, I better add to it, although it DOES already have meat, organs and bones in it.  But it doesn't have fruits and vegies, which I am happy with.

I'm getting sidetracked here, but I called them to ask why I needed to add supplements when it had these 3 biggies in it, and they said because it doesn't have stomach or intestines, which they would be getting in the wild, and that's why in the complete meals they add fruits and vegies, because the cats would get them from their prey's digestive system. (I hope what I am typing makes sense here)  So then I mentioned that I feed mine freeze dried tripe as a treat, and she said that was good, but wouldn't commit if that was "good enough"

.  And after "that other recent thread" now I am totally confused about what to add.  You know me...always confused anyway

Well, anyway, furkids seem to be doing great.  No diarrhea, no

, and I'm terrible about giving them different proteins in the same meal even!  Hard to tell on just who's pooping when, be we seem to have what I would call "enough".  Oh, and remember when I asked if it was normal for the pee to decline (right after Sven died)?  Well, there seems to be more pee now than there was, so not sure whether it was just ME getting used to not seeing buckets anymore from Sven, or what.  What I am NOT noticing is less fur around the house.  They are still shedding!  (Maybe not as much...who knows if I'd be seeing less...all I know is I'm still bending over picking up little puffs of fur every day!)  But there fur is gorgeous!

 

[ldg]

:lol3: Sally, you left MY head spinning!

Yes, it gets hot in NJ. Not hot like in AZ - 90s are usually the highs, and usually only late July/August. But it's humid - very humid - so opening the freezer means everything gets covered in frost. I don't know if it has to work harder in humidity or not. :dk:

As to the Bravo and supplements... is that the one you were asking about? They have a balanced and complete line of foods, though I don't remember what proteins are in it.

For supplementing, when it's meat, bones, and organs, that's what we add the Alnutrin mix (for meat, bones, and organs) to. And yes, we stick the chubs in water, let them mostly dethaw, add the alnutrin and the water (you have to add a little bit of water to make the alnutrin "melt" and become mixable), mix it up, and bag it into whatever quantities you want, or however you want to do it, and refreeze it. :nod:

And don't let the constipation chat re: Rad Cat (or any of them!) worry you! Rad Cat is balanced for MOST cats. Some are more sensitive than others. If they're doing OK on the Primal, they should on the Rad Cat, I think they target the same Ca ratio. But if someone becomes constipated, all you have to do is add a little fresh meat to the meal for that kitty for a few days. Or just use Miralax or something.

Did I answer the question(s)? :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Oh Sally, what a beauty!!! I will tell you, I am totally green with jealousy of the upright - SO much easier!! I will definitely upgrade one day :nod:

I must say, I have been missing your posts - I need to catch up..... The loooong one above got me all excited - well, gave me a laugh or two too :lol3:
I am glad you and your babies are doing well!

I miss being here and knowing what's going on with everyone.....
Many hugs

 

[feralvr]

LOOK AT THAT FREEZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is just PERFECT!!!! I do think the uprights would be much easier. I am constantly fumbling through mine. BUT Laurie told me about those great, inexpensive baskets. They work great!!! Sally, you have to show us pictures of your freezer stocked full of meats soon ix: Congratulations!!!!!!!! That is just so fun, you will love, love your freezer :happy3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well, I don't know what is going on over here, but it seems all my kitties are on a raw strike!  If it's not one, it's another, or all 3 at a time.  I just really don't get it.  Same food as always, but I am having to throw away more and more raw food and bring out the cans and I am not liking it one bit

.  Plus I am trying topper after topper, and those aren't even working. 

  Not even FortiFlora

.  So....today I'm not even bothering with any raw at all, and maybe

I'll try again tomorrow...I just don't know.  But it's just plain weird.   They will not eat pork, lamb, their normally beloved beef/salmon, organic chicken, another variety of lamb and another variety of beef/salmon.  They aren't even really liking the dehydrated S & Cs right now. 

However, I just got a call from that store fairly local and my case (gulp) of Radcat lamb has arrived, so I'll go pick it up and have it for Stinkpot and Callie, who both loved it when we had it here.  Darko did NOT like it before, so I don't see why he will like it now.  But he and Callie both really like the Organic Chicken the first time I dished it up, then haven't touched it since, so maybe he'll really like it this time, or not.  All I know is that after about a week of this back and forth between one or more of them, I'm getting extremely frustrated and about to give up.  I need a pep talk here folks. I'm starting to think that the Wysong Epigen kibble is starting to look awfully good as a full time food right about now, mainly because they aren't too fond of the canned food either (they've all lost weight again...not a ton, but lost none the less)

 

[feralvr]

Sally, I will say that I have been dealing with the same thing over here with my four fussies from day to day. Seems everytime I try to change or add something new for them to try, we are back to :square: one. It really doesn't bother me anymore, not at all. IN fact, there are many meals now that I offer canned only. It seems to go in stages over here. Some days are really good raw days and other's no way. :dk: Perkins has finally joined the carnies Walden and Wendall though. Presley is hit or miss. And Pipsqueak and Perla - well they will only eat a very limited brand of raw. I guess what I am saying is don't sweat it .... try not tooo. Take a step back and just feed them what they will eat right now. Believe me, I have done that. In fact, my bedtime meal now IS Epigen. I just couldn't stand it anymore - the refusals right before I was going to bed. It was causing me so much stress and I was losing sleep that the four fussies didn't eat. So to make my life easier - Epigen at bedtime. They are all much happier about that and love that food tremendously. Poops have been just the same too - no change at all. You can't make yourself nuts over this - so what if you have to add in some more canned meals or even some meals of Epigen. I guess over here at my place, I have a mixed bag of meals going on from day to day. Will my four ever be 100% raw - I kinda doubt it. BUT they get a good amount of raw - more some days than other's. It really doesn't get to me anymore. Walden and Wendall are the only ones at 100% raw - OH they do get the Epigen at night though too. Bottom line - the cat's have to eat - and you have to get some sleep. :lol3: Hope this helps......

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Not sure if I feel any better or not, but thanks for trying! 

  The problem is...nothing has changed.  I didn't try new foods or anything when they decided to go on strike!  It was with their previously favorite food!  And the fact that now they won't even eat with Fortiflora really concerns me.  Plus the fact that they really don't even seem to want canned food either?  It's like they just plain aren't interested in eating...period.  And that CANNOT happen.  Callie actually threw up froth this morning like Sven used to do (I'm guessing due to over acidity in her stomach because of not eating enough yesterday).  I feed them all some freeze dried chicken breast on my way to bed every night just to try to tide them over, and last night Darko (Sir Piggy), didn't even come when I shook the bag

.  He finally sauntered down the stairs and ate ONE LITTLE PIECE and left.  They are just not themselves when it comes to eating...yet don't appear to feel bad...and since it's all three, I'm not worried that oneof them has a major illness or something.

BUT, this morning when I fed them (canned again), Callie came running in and started gobbling up the food.  Problem is...she never eats much. 

I have the Radcat Lamb thawing as I'm typing, so will be serving that up for lunch in about an hour.  I also picked up some Radcat samples of chicken and turkey, so maybe one of those will appeal to Darko, since he has never been enthralled with lamb. 

When I talked to the lady at the store yesterday, she said it could just be the weird weather (heat and very windy), along with the eclipse, that's causing them to change their eating habits.
 

wish me luck at lunch

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

OK, after MUCH prodding, Stinkpot finally dove into the Radcat...but he held out for a long time.  I literally had to hold the bowl up to his mouth while he lounged on a dining room chair under the table.  AND, there were toppers on it, which is a first for the Radcat.  And Callie and Darko wouldn't touch it, toppers and all.  So it was canned food for them.  I'm afraid I have created a monster with them and now they just don't want any raw at all 'cause they both came running when they heard fresh bowls coming out and the pop top of a can

(even though half the time they then walk away from those bowls too)

Well, it's off to the shower for me, because we're going to Cirque de la Symphonie tonight (that's Cirque de Soleil performed to symphony music ...should be interesting!)

 

[ldg]

I missed the raw strike update!

So how are things going NOW?

I have to agree with Lauren. I remember when it was taking me an hour to feed them, and I just said "enough of this!" If it took Fancy Feast, they got FF. :lol3: (Of course, it's not as frustrating for me, because the feral cats eat the leftovers mine don't eat).

I don't remember, :anon: are you around to feed them during the day?

IF SO, then what you might want to do is just feed them more often, less per serving. Maybe start over that way (with whatever food!), but keep set times that you feed them. Leave the food out for a set amount of time, and that's it. Don't chase them around trying to get them to eat. And because you're worried about how much they're eating, make two of those meals Epigen. :nod: When they finally "get" that that's it... those are the times, that's how long the food is down... then you can slowly start increasing the amount of food and reducing the number of meals. But it seems like the heart of the problem here is an issue with timed meals, not the foods in and of themselves. :dk:

And maybe start using crushed Epigen as a topper?

But really, no matter what, TRY not to let it get to you! I know the wasted money and effort is hard to ignore. But the GOAL was healthier food for the kitties, and even if they end up eating Epigen and some canned food, you've achieved your goal!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Thanks are a little better now....meaning they are eating a little bit of raw again, but not like they used to.  Stinkpot is eating the Radcat lamb ok, and today he didn't need any prompting, which was great!  I offered Callie Radcat lamb and Primal Beef/Salmon (,5 oz of each, since she used to love both of these).  She started in without any toppers, and it turned out she left all the Primal, which was ok, except that by the time she was finished putzing around, Stinkpot had polished off all the Radcat, so she only got .5 oz, and no matter what I topped the Primal with, she didn't want it (not even with Fortiflora (all she did was lick it off and leave the meat, the little stinker).  Darko ate quite a bit of the Primal, after  I sprinkled FD chicken on it.  He won't have anything to do with Radcat

.  I tried the samples of Radcat chicken and turkey, and they were a bust.  (for all 3 of them)  So....since Callie obviously hadn't eaten enough, I opened a can of Weruva, bit she just licked and licked at it and I never saw the amount in the bowl actually decrease, just get drier and drier.  I swear, she just doesn't know how to pick things up and eat them...only how to lick.  Even with the dehydrated S & C's I will watch her and she ends up pushing the pieces around in her bowl until it seems like she finally just gives up.  So I have tried crumbling them, just breaking them in half (I'm talking about the cat ones, not the dog ones), holding them up to her with my fingertips, putting them in my palm, setting them on her placemat, etc.  I still haven't come up with the magic formula that seems to really work so she can get them in her mouth.  I never watched her eat kibble, but guess some stuck to her tongue and since she just grazed all day she got enough that way.  (she was once actually overweight)

Anyway, I am digressing again!  I AM home during the day, and could try to feed at least her more meals, (and have tried, actually), but she doesn't cooperate when I try to put her behind closed doors to keep the boys away.  She is very aggressive toward them in every way except with food, then she lets them walk all over her. 

Obviously I'm going to have to change something, like maybe thaw more than one meal at a time so I have more to feed her

, , and try, try, try to get her separated to give her an extra meal or two.  Yesterday I was carrying around some Epigen in my pocket to give her, and Darko ended up with it!  (he's the one who is actually on the diet!  Figures!)  AT least she liked the Radcat this morning, so I won't feel bad thawing more in hopes she'll eat it.  I really cannot afford to be throwing away stuff that's THAT expensive

 

 

[ldg]

I'm glad they're eating better! I wish I had some suggestion for Callie... Billy doesn't chew at all, but he can pick up his food. Right now Spooky's in mostly lick mode. I cut up her meat REALLY small, but once she licks it into her mouth, she chews it. So I don't have any tricks needed (yet, knock wood :lol3: ) to get the food IN her mouth. I'll ponder that, but it's a tough one.

And OF COURSE Callie complicates everything but not absolutely loving treats only she gets behind closed doors! Watch out for those men in the white coats!

and some for Callie!

 

[feralvr]

I am back from our short trip and catching up here, Sally. I am glad to hear that at least you are having some success with them eating again. I really like what Laurie said a few posts ago :lol3: about reaching your goal meaning a healthier diet overall. More canned food!!!! Some raw here and there, and really excellent quality dry, Epigen, from time to time (which IMO is the best dry out there anyway) Your kitties ARE on a healthier diet and you ARE having success. I do know the frustration - but honestly, I don't let it get to me anymore because my thinking is...... MY cats are eating SOOOOO much healthful than they were a year ago :nod: A huge step in the right direction Is everyday a perfect raw day?? Nope. :lol3: And on those days, I end up offering the Epigen to make up for the "lost" calories It has made life less stressful for me and for them. :bigthumb:

I also do have a little variety thawed for each day and sometimes do have to offer Perla and/or Pipsqueak a "private" extra feeding during the day IF they had a complete refusal in the morning. That has been working really well. Might work for Callie too, IF you can keep the boys away :bigwink: I take them into the bathroom OR downstairs and close the door behind me so the boys cannot follow us down. It is extra work.... bu to me, I have the time to try right now because I am home right now during the day. I actually enjoy the extra special time with them. AND again, if there is a day when I am short on time or some of these upcoming short two day trips away, then I have the Epigen as my backup. It is all working out quite well. I want that for you too!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been awfully quiet in your part of the camp lately How goes it over there??????

 

[ldg]

:cross:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Well....the Radcat has created a monster

with Stinkpot.  He simply won't eat anything else (which is kind of what I was afraid of, but

, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.  Although, I AM going to contact Hare-Today and order some of their meats....I'm thinking they are probably comparable, and maybe that'll solve the problem (because he only likes the Radcat lamb, nothing else, and that won't do!)

So, Darko and Callie like Primal Beef/Salmon and sometimes Stella and Chewy's frozen Beef/Salmon (boy is that consistency sticky!), but so far nothing else either.  STILL no one will eat Bravo lamb, Bravo Pork, NV Organic Chicken or Nature's Logic Rabbit.  So, I'm going to return the NV Chicken and exchange it for rabbit at Lauren's suggestion.  Now, I had one little patty of S & C frozen duck, of all things, and all 3 of them ate it (PRE Rad Cat

), so I might get a bag of that and see how it goes, since I can return that also if it's a failure.  I really hate to do that, but if they're willing to take it back, I'm willing to try it.

We've had a few days where it's been raw at every meal, but mostly we have 2 raw meals and one canned (grain free, naturally).   But I still can't get her alone to eat Epigen.

But, it's weird, because Callie has been shedding like crazy!  I brushed her really well the other day (zoom groom too), and ever since, every time we pet her, we still come away with handfuls of fur.  I keep brushing her and getting brush fulls of fur.  Don't know what is going on. I really think I need to take her in for a check-up.  Plus today while I was prepping their breakfast, she and Darko got into a knock down drag out fight right in the kitchen, and later I came upon quite a bit of blood, although I checked them out and couldn't find any evidence of wounds.  But there was one spot about the size of a dime and then several droplets around that.  And it wasn't mine, although I got caught in it because Stinkpot was on my shoulder supervising with it went down, and it scared him and he launched off me, taking much skin in the process.  So now I look like I've been in a cat fight too

  And I'm pretty sure Callie was the instigator, because she has been after Darko for weeks, pretty much ever since Sven died.  I think she wants to make sure  SHE is in charge next, and doesn't want him to forget it, even though he is more than twice her size.  She's a scrappy little thing

 

[ldg]

I wonder if someone got scratched in the mouth? Maybe that's why you can't see it? Lazlo got a bad nose swipe once, and it bled quite a bit. I think gums can too. Aw.... :cross:

Sheldon's always had "loose" fur. I thought the omega 3 supplement and sardines would help, but his coat hasn't changed much. We had him in for his annual last week, and the vet said she sees it frequently, and asked if he's a bad groomer? I thought about it - and, in fact, I do NOT see Sheldon preening and grooming as much as the other kitties usually do. It's not that he's stopped - he just never did groom as much. And that explains it. So I use the Furminator on him once or twice a day now, and just a week or so later, he's already looking SO much better! If this is new in Callie, a vet visit might be in order. But if she's just not a very good groomer - you might have to keep up that brushing. :lol3:

Well, at least you're narrowing down what they like and don't like! I REALLY hope HT can ship to AZ at a reasonable price. :cross: It'd be nice to have some other things to offer the Tinkster. :nod: But no matter how much raw they do or don't eat, they're eating canned and healthier kibble, Sally, so their diet is radically improved, and so much better for them!

 

[feralvr]

Good to hear from you !!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry about the cat fight. Seems that sometimes these things do build up in them and just come out of the blue like that. OH your poor shoulder It is scary. Pipsqueak and Walden (of all cats) got into it a week ago. Not surprising for Pip - he is definitely the boss around here. But I think Walden got a bit too rough when they were playing and the play turned nasty pretty quick. Walden ended up running off with Pipsqueak chasing him down. Man - that little Pipster is one tough cookie. Maybe Callie had her say and things will settle :cross:. I wouldn't worry about the shedding... she could be dropping her coat a bit late this year. Perla is dropping coat like mad too. she is my worst shedder.

I really do hope the NV Rabbit works for your three. It is tough trying to find stuff they all like. Mine four fussies seem to like something different and that makes life a bit more complicated. I hope the HT will be a hit :cross: I have really had great luck with it over here. So far the favorite is the Goat, Rabbit, Pork and the Turkey. (turkey for Pip that is.) They also like the quail and pheasant - especially Perkins and Presley. AND yeah - I hear ya on the Rad Cat Lamb. Perla's favorite. But she loves the rabbit and pork - so I am able to sneak that into her now. But she really got hooked on the RC Lamb too like your Tinky. Same as you, I figure, hey it's raw and slowly but surely I am winning them over. Never let my guard down though, :lol3: that way I am never disappointed. I just expect the expected

Yeah - the kitties and my dogs LOVE LOVE LOVE the Epigen. I am gone this weekend to Indiana and my daughter will babysit cats. Out comes the Epigen for the scaredy cats that hide. Have no other choice on that one.

Keep us posted, Sally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! especially on the NV Rabbit and the HT order.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

OK, needs some advise.  I'm currently on the Hare-Today website, and not sure what I should order. I know I want some duck hearts, so will order the 2 lb package.  And will try some goat.  Question there is, do you think I should go for the course ground, or the fine ground? Does anymore know why the course ground doesn't include tripe, but the fine ground does?   My kits are used to the commercial stuff so far, but I would like to move them along, and am even thinking of maybe trying them on some of the rabbit chunks too (that's my next question!)  As far as the rabbit, what have you all tried...fine or course, or the chunks?  OMG, I just read some review on the course ground, and someone said there are eyeballs in there, and their cats LOVE them, but they can't watch them eat them

.  I don't know if I can handle that or not.  Would I ever be able to kiss my Tinky again knowing he just ate an eyeball

?   Anyway, you know my babies are the pickies from H#@@, and so far they haven't even liked the one brand of rabbit we have tried, but I am ready to branch out and get them onto other stuff.  AND, I think I'm ready to try to encourage them towards Frankenprey.  Don't ask me why...I'm probably only torchering (sp?) myself, but I'm thinking maybe that's the problem...they need bigger pieces.  Maybe Callie would eat more if she had something to hold on to.  I know one of Carolina's had that problem, right?

Anyway, what should I order that they might like?  They so far have not liked ANY fowl, from ANY manufacturer, including Radcat,(except they DID share one sample S & C frozen duck patty between the 3 of them and actually ate it all) so I thought I wouldn't even bother with trying chicken or turkey again.  Has anyone tried their ground duck?  As I recall, venison was not a major hit, right.

I know, I know, every cat is different, but there has kind of been a majority that has liked most of it, right?  Oh, and on the Alnutrin, should I go with that, or not?  With all the recent discussion on Omega 3's, and I see that Alnutrin does not contain O3, I'm wondering about it.  They said it's because it oxidizes, so just add some salmon oil, which I can do, but am still wondering if you think the Alnutrin is the best.  (it's made just down the road from me, BTW!  Too bad they don't sell it around here

)

And THAT bring up another question...why does't anyone sprinkle Alnutrin on their boneless Frankenprey.  They make one with Calcium in it, in case you didn't know.  It's on their website knowwhatyoufeed.com

Any advise is appreciated, as I'd like to go ahead and order this week end.  Thanks!

 

[carolina]

You definitely want the fine ground for all the ground meats there - Rabbit is my favorite, but as you can see from Lauren's thread, kitties can have surprising ideas, so don't be afraid to try others - their ground meats are excellent!

One could use the Alnutrin for sure.... There are advantages to it - I calculated for my meals (I feed 1.60oz per meal,and I would need 0.65g of to balance it - not bad, I guess - I think that's less than Call of the wild for sure. The only thing is, you still have to feed liver - there is no liver in it..... There is eggs, which I like, Taurine, manganese, Calcium, but no liver; so it is not AS complete as Call of the wild.

Since my cats like the eggshells for the calcium, and I feed the straight taurine, I don't see the point - if it contained Liver then yes.... That would make sense.

As for the rabbit pieces - be aware they come with bones - and they are a PIA - do your cats eat chunks of meat already? if they do, it might be worth a shot.... It they don't.... then....
I LOVE (not me, but the kitties) the duck hearts - it is a staple here. I always but the turkey hearts too.... and venison.
Have fun!!