Introducing new cats

[Furballsmom]

Woohoo, you-all rock!!

 

[Beyond Confused]

Woohoo, you-all rock!!

Not so fast...

Twice today, I have left Duncan's side, and I've gone to pick up Indy's things to move him back in the bathroom. Duncan has been less than pleased, and he's hissed so many times from the other side of the fence.

So how to I keep that from happening? Obviously, I can't just spend time with Duncan, though the bulk of my time is spent with him.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Not so fast...

Twice today, I have left Duncan's side, and I've gone to pick up Indy's things to move him back in the bathroom. Duncan has been less than pleased, and he's hissed so many times from the other side of the fence.

So how to I keep that from happening? Obviously, I can't just spend time with Duncan, though the bulk of my time is spent with him.

Not surprising. Reassure him by saying something like "it's ok". If Indy is not focused on him or responding or getting more aggressive then I wouldn't worry. You could also just pull the sheet down and end the visual.

Then after when you return to Duncan reassure him that all is ok and normal.

As long as it isn't escalating into negativity I wouldn't worry too much. And if Indy is not showing any defensiveness etc then I think it is fine. Of course we want to get where Duncan doesn't feel the need to hiss (which he will) but it is part of the process and expected.

Will be interesting to see how Duncan responds to you reassuring him when you are with Indy.

Let me know how it goes. Don't worry, everything is on track.

 

[Beyond Confused]

Not surprising. Reassure him by saying something like "it's ok". If Indy is not focused on him or responding or getting more aggressive then I wouldn't worry. You could also just pull the sheet down and end the visual.

Then after when you return to Duncan reassure him that all is ok and normal.

As long as it isn't escalating into negativity I wouldn't worry too much. And if Indy is not showing any defensiveness etc then I think it is fine. Of course we want to get where Duncan doesn't feel the need to hiss (which he will) but it is part of the process and expected.

Will be interesting to see how Duncan responds to you reassuring him when you are with Indy.

Let me know how it goes. Don't worry, everything is on track.

I'm glad you think everything is on track because I'm starting to doubt.

We tried again this morning, and it was all over the place.

-Duncan completely ignored Indy
-Duncan watched Indy with curiosity
-Duncan hissed, took swipes, and lunged at the gates
-Duncan, standing next to the gates, turned his back with this tail in the air and stood there

He's all over the place. The saving grace is that Indy is not the least bit intimidated by Duncan, so he just sits there watching Duncan's temper tantrums. He will even put his little paw up to the gate and let out happy little meows (and now I sound like Bob Ross). When he's done, Indy will turn around, lift his tail, and go back to eating like nothing happened.

Today is a month since I brought Indy home. I was really hoping they'd be together by this point, especially given how chill Indy is.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hang in there!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

I'm glad you think everything is on track because I'm starting to doubt.

We tried again this morning, and it was all over the place.

-Duncan completely ignored Indy
-Duncan watched Indy with curiosity
-Duncan hissed, took swipes, and lunged at the gates
-Duncan, standing next to the gates, turned his back with this tail in the air and stood there

He's all over the place. The saving grace is that Indy is not the least bit intimidated by Duncan, so he just sits there watching Duncan's temper tantrums. He will even put his little paw up to the gate and let out happy little meows (and now I sound like Bob Ross). When he's done, Indy will turn around, lift his tail, and go back to eating like nothing happened.

Today is a month since I brought Indy home. I was really hoping they'd be together by this point, especially given how chill Indy is.

I absolutely think everything is on track, expected, and normal (actually you are ahead of schedule with better results). No doubt in my mind.

"We tried again this morning, and it was all over the place."

"-Duncan completely ignored Indy" - That is actually great and what I want to see. Ignoring means not fearful, not obsessed. When a cat looks away or ignores that is a positive in intros. A sign of acceptance.

"-Duncan watched Indy with curiosity" -Normal. And if there is no negativity, not too much tension, etc it is great. A sign of acceptance which again is what we want.

"-Duncan hissed, took swipes, and lunged at the gates" Not surprising and normal. This tells us we have more work. So we want to distract to avoid this, reassure with words and.or love (if safe) to let him know all is ok, there is no threat or risk.Now at what point did this happen? And important "tells" are what the other cat does aduring this and how they all act after it ends (fast rebound to normal or not)

"-Duncan, standing next to the gates, turned his back with this tail in the air and stood there" - HUGELY positive as no cat would turn their back to a real threat.

Overall, I say this is great and ahead of schedule. Duncan seems to be still cautious (normal) and is reminding Indy to not try anything. I have no doubts about where we are.

"He's all over the place." - I disagree, he is normal and actually much better than about 90% of resident cats.

"The saving grace is that Indy is not the least bit intimidated by Duncan, so he just sits there watching Duncan's temper tantrums. He will even put his little paw up to the gate and let out happy little meows (and now I sound like Bob Ross). When he's done, Indy will turn around, lift his tail, and go back to eating like nothing happened." - Indy is amazing. He seems really confident and building trust (very trusting). THAT is very helpful for the intro AND also tells me that Indy is interpreting Duncan's actions as not that threatening. I always let the cats tell me what they think.

If we had issues they would not be acting this good.

"Today is a month since I brought Indy home. I was really hoping they'd be together by this point, especially given how chill Indy is" - A month is a very fast intro and not all that common. With that said you are way closer than you realize.

They will be intro'd. Don't worry. I don't see one thing that causes me even the slightest concern.

Keep up the great work!!

 

[Beyond Confused]

"-Duncan hissed, took swipes, and lunged at the gates" Not surprising and normal. This tells us we have more work. So we want to distract to avoid this, reassure with words and.or love (if safe) to let him know all is ok, there is no threat or risk.Now at what point did this happen? And important "tells" are what the other cat does during this and how they all act after it ends (fast rebound to normal or not)

I would say we were hanging out for probably 15-20 minutes, and this started probably 3/4 of the way through.
And yeah - as always, Indy was not at all bothered by any of it.

"The saving grace is that Indy is not the least bit intimidated by Duncan, so he just sits there watching Duncan's temper tantrums. He will even put his little paw up to the gate and let out happy little meows (and now I sound like Bob Ross). When he's done, Indy will turn around, lift his tail, and go back to eating like nothing happened." - Indy is amazing. He seems really confident and building trust (very trusting). THAT is very helpful for the intro AND also tells me that Indy is interpreting Duncan's actions as not that threatening. I always let the cats tell me what they think.

...or he's just too sweet and naive!

We'll try again at lunch time.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I would say we were hanging out for probably 15-20 minutes, and this started probably 3/4 of the way through.
And yeah - as always, Indy was not at all bothered by any of it.



...or he's just too sweet and naive!

We'll try again at lunch time.

"I would say we were hanging out for probably 15-20 minutes, and this started probably 3/4 of the way through." - OK, that makes sense. That is pretty normal. As time goes on the probability of something going on increases as boredom sets in, frustration, sometimes overstimulation, etc. Things like that. I am not worried about that. Maybe cut the time a bit and end on a positive and then build on the time.

"And yeah - as always, Indy was not at all bothered by any of it." - That is extremely helpful. He is doing his part which is great AND that tells me that Duncan is not threatening in Indy's eyes.

"..or he's just too sweet and naive!" - Hahahaha, could be. But I have seen a lot of sweet and naive cats wake up pretty quickly. I do think Duncan is being more "parenty" rather than aggressive.

I think they are doing great. Just help reassure Duncan that all is ok. If he hisses and swats (which we would like to avoid but it is hard) and Indy poses no threat reaction and things calm down right after and Duncan goes back to normal then it actually builds confidence. It is a little nuanced but you will see it in time what I mean.

 

[pearl99]

Today is a month since I brought Indy home. I was really hoping they'd be together by this point, especially given how chill Indy is.

Keep the faith! Having been where you are, things will progress and settle. I've only done a handful of intros and from experience slow and step by step wins the day. And the cats. And goes a long way towards avoiding having to do a re-do and start over or backtrack.

 

[Beyond Confused]

I tried a few times yesterday.

Overall, I'd say it went well. Hissing was at a minimum, and Duncan didn't seem too worried about Indy. Of course, Indy wasn't the least bit worried about Duncan.

At one point, Duncan had his whole body between his food bowl and the baby gates, his back to the gates, and he ate with no issue. Indy will often eat with his back to the gates, so he's not concerned.

They had a civilized breakfast this morning. Duncan ate his food right up near the gates, and Indy was all over the place - sometimes he had his back to the gates, while he ate, sometimes, he was further away, chasing his food.
There was no hissing, and after 10-15 minutes, Duncan just showed no interest whatsoever, so I shut it down.

I will try again before class this afternoon and then at dinner time.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I tried a few times yesterday.

Overall, I'd say it went well. Hissing was at a minimum, and Duncan didn't seem too worried about Indy. Of course, Indy wasn't the least bit worried about Duncan.

At one point, Duncan had his whole body between his food bowl and the baby gates, his back to the gates, and he ate with no issue. Indy will often eat with his back to the gates, so he's not concerned.

They had a civilized breakfast this morning. Duncan ate his food right up near the gates, and Indy was all over the place - sometimes he had his back to the gates, while he ate, sometimes, he was further away, chasing his food.
There was no hissing, and after 10-15 minutes, Duncan just showed no interest whatsoever, so I shut it down.

I will try again before class this afternoon and then at dinner time.

"Hissing was at a minimum" - Great. Remember, hissing is communication. It is all about the response and how everything goes after the hiss.

" and Duncan didn't seem too worried about Indy."- Exactly what we are looking for. When Indy respects the hiss is builds Duncan's trust.

"Of course, Indy wasn't the least bit worried about Duncan." - Great. That tells me Indy doesn't fear Duncan (views the communication as a warning not an offensive, aggressive action) and respects his communication which helps builds Duncan's trust in Indy. EXACTLY what we are looking for.

"They had a civilized breakfast this morning. Duncan ate his food right up near the gates" - Awesome. Positive association, positive encounter. Exactly what we want to build trust AND a great sign of existing trust.

"and Indy was all over the place - sometimes he had his back to the gates, while he ate, sometimes, he was further away, chasing his food." - Perfect. Sounds like he was comfortable and I LOVE Duncan wasn't bothered by the movement. Awesome.

"There was no hissing, and after 10-15 minutes" - Perfect

"Duncan just showed no interest whatsoever" - GREAT

" so I shut it down." - Perfect, exactly the right thing to do.

Doesn't get much better than this. Rinse and repeat. Keep up the great work!!!

 

[Beyond Confused]

We gave it another shot this morning, which went well.

But then a little while later, i went in to clean Indy's litterbox. I left the bathroom door open so Indy could stretch his legs between the bathroom, hallway, and bedroom.

Duncan wasn't a fan of this, and I'm pretty sure he let the entire neighborhood know it. He was hissing at Indy, lunging at the gate, etc. I was in the bathroom, so I couldn't see everything, but I could hear him. Indy wasn't affected at all, and he came over when I called him. I kept telling Duncan it was okay, but still.

I'm not even sure his issue is jealousy. I feel like he takes his shots when I'm not there to keep him calm.

At this point, I'm almost not even sure I know why I continue with the gates because it doesn't seem to be really changing anything. How many more times can they stare at each other through the gates? I wonder if it's just magnifying the issues. <sigh>

 

[calicosrspecial]

We gave it another shot this morning, which went well.

But then a little while later, i went in to clean Indy's litterbox. I left the bathroom door open so Indy could stretch his legs between the bathroom, hallway, and bedroom.

Duncan wasn't a fan of this, and I'm pretty sure he let the entire neighborhood know it. He was hissing at Indy, lunging at the gate, etc. I was in the bathroom, so I couldn't see everything, but I could hear him. Indy wasn't affected at all, and he came over when I called him. I kept telling Duncan it was okay, but still.

I'm not even sure his issue is jealousy. I feel like he takes his shots when I'm not there to keep him calm.

At this point, I'm almost not even sure I know why I continue with the gates because it doesn't seem to be really changing anything. How many more times can they stare at each other through the gates? I wonder if it's just magnifying the issues. <sigh>

"We gave it another shot this morning, which went well." - Great.

"But then a little while later, i went in to clean Indy's litterbox. I left the bathroom door open so Indy could stretch his legs between the bathroom, hallway, and bedroom. Duncan wasn't a fan of this, and I'm pretty sure he let the entire neighborhood know it. He was hissing at Indy, lunging at the gate, etc. I was in the bathroom, so I couldn't see everything, but I could hear him." - Ok, not surprising. What I learn from this is it is too early to have unsupervised visual contact. Duncan is still feeling insecure. AND I always think I have learned that you are a big part of Duncan's confidence. So your presence allows Duncan to have more trust and confidence. Not at all surprising or worrying.

So what we need to do it close off visual by pulling the sheet all the way down when you are not able to be there AND try to have Indy in the bedroom so there is no contact near the gate. Indy would be fine being in the bedroom for that short time.

This way we can maximize positive encounters and minimize or avoid negative encounters.

"Indy wasn't affected at all, and he came over when I called him." - THIS is great and is VERY helpful in getting Duncan to learn to trust.

"I kept telling Duncan it was okay, but still." - Good that you tried. It does happen when the physical presence of the person is not close. Very normal to have this happen.

"I'm not even sure his issue is jealousy. I feel like he takes his shots when I'm not there to keep him calm." - I think it is territorial insecurity and the fact you are a big part of his confidence. I am not at all worried, we can deal with that.

"At this point, I'm almost not even sure I know why I continue with the gates because it doesn't seem to be really changing anything." - To avoid a serious negative encounter that would have to be reversed to build trust. So we are building trust without losing any ground. Yes, it may be slower than you like but for intros it is actually going ahead of schedule. PLEASE stay with the gates and supervised visual for now. We are on track, I have no doubt in my mind.

"How many more times can they stare at each other through the gates?" - It depends. When we see total acceptance is when it doesn't have to happen anymore. We are probably about 80% of the way there I would guess.

"I wonder if it's just magnifying the issues." - No, it is definitely helping. If there was no gate I suspect we would see serious negative encounters and potential longer lasting behavioral changes.

Avoiding negative encounters is really important in intros so as to build trust. Indy is doing his part and is way better than most new cats. Duncan is being a normal, resident cat. It just takes time and reinforcing positive associations and positive encounters builds trust.

So going forward, keep doing what you are doing and when you have to clean the litter just block visual and put Indy in the bedroom for the time being so there is no risk of a negative encounter.

I do wonder if Duncan was really after Indy or if he wanted to be with you. Any idea?

Don't worry, you are much closer than you realize. Keep up the great work!!

 

[Beyond Confused]

I do wonder if Duncan was really after Indy or if he wanted to be with you. Any idea?

No, I think he was annoyed with Indy because he's done this before with me on his (Duncan's) side of the gate.

Don't worry, you are much closer than you realize. Keep up the great work!!

Thanks. I sure hope so because I would really, REALLY like to have my house back to normal.

 

[calicosrspecial]

No, I think he was annoyed with Indy because he's done this before with me on his (Duncan's) side of the gate.




Thanks. I sure hope so because I would really, REALLY like to have my house back to normal.

"No, I think he was annoyed with Indy because he's done this before with me on his (Duncan's) side of the gate." - Ok. But he isn't like that as much when you are with him/near him on his side of the gates? Correct?

"Thanks. I sure hope so because I would really, REALLY like to have my house back to normal." - You are welcome. You are closer than you think. I can understand that. It will be back to normal. I have done A LOT of intros, you are in a great place. Just a little more work., a little more time. It will all be worth it.

 

[Beyond Confused]

"No, I think he was annoyed with Indy because he's done this before with me on his (Duncan's) side of the gate." - Ok. But he isn't like that as much when you are with him/near him on his side of the gates? Correct?

The hissing happens a fair bit, even when I'm sitting there with him. Lunging at the gate has happened a couple of times. Today, when I was in the bathroom cleaning the box; and it's happened before when I was in the kitchen (Duncan's side of the gate,) but several feet away. I was putting dishes away or something.

 

[calicosrspecial]

The hissing happens a fair bit, even when I'm sitting there with him. Lunging at the gate has happened a couple of times. Today, when I was in the bathroom cleaning the box; and it's happened before when I was in the kitchen (Duncan's side of the gate,) but several feet away. I was putting dishes away or something.

"The hissing happens a fair bit even when I'm sitting there with him." - Not surprising and not anything out of the ordinary.

"Lunging at the gate has happened a couple of times." - That is good it has happened only a couple of times. That is much better than most intros.

"Today, when I was in the bathroom cleaning the box; and it's happened before when I was in the kitchen (Duncan's side of the gate,) but several feet away. I was putting dishes away or something." - Yes, that makes total sense. He definitely gets confidence from your presence which again is totally common and normal. I personally use myself in intros all the time. Anything to make a positive association and a positive encounter (as long as the human is not at risk of being hurt in any way).

I am not at all worried about the lunges. They make sense. Those will disappear in time.

And the hissing I am even less worried about. It is all about how the react to it (whether they escalate or not) and how soon after they rebound to normal. Fast rebound means it isn't that serious. Hiding, avoiding, etc tells us we have some work to do depending on how long it lasts.

How soon after the lunges did Duncan act like he always does (normal)?

Indy wasn't bothered at all which tells me he doesn't fear Duncan that much. That is why I wonder how serious it really is and how much it is directed at Indy.

Nothing I am reading is worrisome or abnormal. They are going to be fine.

 

[Beyond Confused]

How soon after the lunges did Duncan act like he always does (normal)?

Like with everything - the hissing, growling, etc, Duncan will go back to normal very quickly. In fact, he'll do those things, and then like flipping a switch, he'll be standing in front of the gates with his back to the gate, not the least bit concerned about Indy.

I've got Jekyll and Hyde over here!

 

[pearl99]

Or making sure Indy knows "I, Duncan am keeping my eye on you." Indy says "OK! Got it! Can we play?"

 

[calicosrspecial]

Like with everything - the hissing, growling, etc, Duncan will go back to normal very quickly. In fact, he'll do those things, and then like flipping a switch, he'll be standing in front of the gates with his back to the gate, not the least bit concerned about Indy.

I've got Jekyll and Hyde over here!

"Like with everything - the hissing, growling, etc, Duncan will go back to normal very quickly." - That is VERY positive. Tells me it is a warning to Indy and not an aggressive "I want to kill you and eliminate you" thing.

"In fact, he'll do those things, and then like flipping a switch, he'll be standing in front of the gates with his back to the gate, not the least bit concerned about Indy." - Again, TOTALLY positive. No cat does this if there isn't a fair amount of trust.

If we had any serious problems, there is no way Duncan would do these things. This combined with how Indy responds to Duncan tells me this is not an issue and as long as we continue doing the right things will go away. I am more encouraged about them being intro'd than ever. It is only a question of "when" not "if"

"I've got Jekyll and Hyde over here!" - Hahahahaha, no. Duncan is acting like a normal resident cat (albeit much better and more accepting than most). I think Duncan AND Indy are doing great!!!

Pearl99 is spot on.

Keep up the great work. All is well.