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Beyond Confused

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Welp - that lasted about :20.

I put Indy's food in the LR and put Duncan in the entryway until I could get Indy settled. Indy NEVER passes up a chance for food, but he had no interest in it just now. Nope, he wanted to walk around and explore.
For a second, he had his back to Duncan and started eating, so I opened the entryway door and Duncan came out slowly, checked out his food. I turned around, and Indy was making a beeline in his direction. This wasn't being done in a threatening way at all. And then Duncan started heading toward Indy. Duncan was making little meowing noises. I didn't want things to get rowdy, so I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.

As I type this, Indy is meowing loudly in the bathroom, and Duncan promptly marched over and hissed before walking away.

I'm not sure if I should've given it more time, but since Duncan just walked over and hissed at the door, maybe it was a good thing I cut it off quickly.
 

calicosrspecial

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Welp - that lasted about :20.

I put Indy's food in the LR and put Duncan in the entryway until I could get Indy settled. Indy NEVER passes up a chance for food, but he had no interest in it just now. Nope, he wanted to walk around and explore.
For a second, he had his back to Duncan and started eating, so I opened the entryway door and Duncan came out slowly, checked out his food. I turned around, and Indy was making a beeline in his direction. This wasn't being done in a threatening way at all. And then Duncan started heading toward Indy. Duncan was making little meowing noises. I didn't want things to get rowdy, so I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.

As I type this, Indy is meowing loudly in the bathroom, and Duncan promptly marched over and hissed before walking away.

I'm not sure if I should've given it more time, but since Duncan just walked over and hissed at the door, maybe it was a good thing I cut it off quickly.
Well, I am guessing he did that because he was in relatively new territory (the living room). So I guess we should probably do it in territory he already knows so he doesn't feel the need to explore.

:For a second, he had his back to Duncan and started eating" - Duncan wasn't visible though, correct?

"so I opened the entryway door and Duncan came out slowly, checked out his food." - Did Duncan see Indy before checking out his food?

"I turned around, and Indy was making a beeline in his direction." - Indy wasn't finished eating yet, right?

"This wasn't being done in a threatening way at all." - I didn't expect it to be but THIS is GREAT!!!

"And then Duncan started heading toward Indy. Duncan was making little meowing noises." - How fast? What was his body language like? What did Indy do?

"I didn't want things to get rowdy, so I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom." - That is good. Avoided a potential negative.

"As I type this, Indy is meowing loudly in the bathroom" - Expected but that is a good sign. He wouldn't be doing that if he thought Duncan was a threat.

" and Duncan promptly marched over and hissed before walking away." - Duncan told him to "knock it off". - The fact he walked away is really good.

"I'm not sure if I should've given it more time" - I don't know but I think you did great. I think what you did is fine.

"but since Duncan just walked over and hissed at the door, maybe it was a good thing I cut it off quickly." - Yeah, maybe. I am not at all bothered by the hissing. The fact Duncan didn't see Indy and immediately attack is a good sign. There was no fight so it is a positive.

Overall, I think it is fine and tells us a fair amount.

Let's try it more in Duncan's territory. Basically do the same thing you did but just in a different area. Where Indy will not feel the need to explore. Call Duncan over try to get him to come over slowly, distract and reassure as needed. If Indy is focused on the food will be interesting to see how Duncan responds. If you can get them to break focus on each other it is great.

"Take 2. Action"

Let us know if you have any questions. Hopefully this makes sense. I think you handled it well. Good job.
 

Beyond Confused

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Well, I am guessing he did that because he was in relatively new territory (the living room). So I guess we should probably do it in territory he already knows so he doesn't feel the need to explore.
Welllllll, he's explored the house a few times, and there really isn't a place I can do this where Indy is super comfortable that also allows avenues of escape. Honestly, I just think he's so comfortable and ready to go, he wasn't the least bit bothered with Duncan in the room.


:For a second, he had his back to Duncan and started eating" - Duncan wasn't visible though, correct?
The entryway door was straight ahead from where Indy's bowl was. It's a French door with glass panes, but I had the light off in the entryway, so Indy probably didn't see him.


"so I opened the entryway door and Duncan came out slowly, checked out his food." - Did Duncan see Indy before checking out his food?
He definitely saw Indy because, again, he was in the entryway, behind a glass french door, and Indy was straight ahead.


"I turned around, and Indy was making a beeline in his direction." - Indy wasn't finished eating yet, right?
No. He was like a kid with lots of shiny objects around him. I think he only stopped to eat because I refused to let him pass at first.


"And then Duncan started heading toward Indy. Duncan was making little meowing noises." - How fast? What was his body language like? What did Indy do?
Normal speed? He didn't sprint toward Indy, but he wasn't on the prowl either. I didn't really see his body language because I was trying to keep them from getting too close. I was also trying to use the laser light to distract Indy, which was somewhat working. I just know that Duncan was walking toward Indy, meowing, but it didn't sound threatening or angry.


Let's try it more in Duncan's territory. Basically do the same thing you did but just in a different area. Where Indy will not feel the need to explore. Call Duncan over try to get him to come over slowly, distract and reassure as needed. If Indy is focused on the food will be interesting to see how Duncan responds. If you can get them to break focus on each other it is great.
With the layout of my house, I just don't see any other option than the living room.
 

calicosrspecial

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Welllllll, he's explored the house a few times, and there really isn't a place I can do this where Indy is super comfortable that also allows avenues of escape. Honestly, I just think he's so comfortable and ready to go, he wasn't the least bit bothered with Duncan in the room.




The entryway door was straight ahead from where Indy's bowl was. It's a French door with glass panes, but I had the light off in the entryway, so Indy probably didn't see him.




He definitely saw Indy because, again, he was in the entryway, behind a glass french door, and Indy was straight ahead.




No. He was like a kid with lots of shiny objects around him. I think he only stopped to eat because I refused to let him pass at first.




Normal speed? He didn't sprint toward Indy, but he wasn't on the prowl either. I didn't really see his body language because I was trying to keep them from getting too close. I was also trying to use the laser light to distract Indy, which was somewhat working. I just know that Duncan was walking toward Indy, meowing, but it didn't sound threatening or angry.




With the layout of my house, I just don't see any other option than the living room.
"Welllllll, he's explored the house a few times, and there really isn't a place I can do this where Indy is super comfortable that also allows avenues of escape." - I hear you. We'll have to sacrifice on one and I think it should be the avenues of escape. I don't think Duncan would go after him and not be able to be distracted (or be able to scoop up Indy or break it up in an other way). I would prioritize Indy being engrossed in the food and not interested in sniffing around vs having the escape routes. What do you think?

"Honestly, I just think he's so comfortable and ready to go" - Agreed which is great!!

" he wasn't the least bit bothered with Duncan in the room." - LOVE that. Tells me Duncan is not threatening to him.

"The entryway door was straight ahead from where Indy's bowl was. It's a French door with glass panes, but I had the light off in the entryway, so Indy probably didn't see him." - Ok. That is fine.

"He definitely saw Indy because, again, he was in the entryway, behind a glass french door, and Indy was straight ahead." - Ok, good. So Duncan did not just go straight to Indy in an attack mode, correct? If so, that is REALLY good.

"No. He was like a kid with lots of shiny objects around him. I think he only stopped to eat because I refused to let him pass at first." - Understandable. Good job on refusing to let him pass. If you can safely without being at risk of being hurt in anyway that is a very good way to do it. Makes a positive association (because they love you) and makes a positive encounter.

"Normal speed? He didn't sprint toward Indy, but he wasn't on the prowl either." - GREAT!!!

"I didn't really see his body language because I was trying to keep them from getting too close." - Yes, it is hard.

" I was also trying to use the laser light to distract Indy, which was somewhat working." - GREAT.

" I just know that Duncan was walking toward Indy, meowing, but it didn't sound threatening or angry."- GREAT.

How did they act after they were separated? Was there a little apprehension? Indy seemed like he had no issues (wanting to come out again) while Duncan left the door but I am wondering if he seemed amped up or acting a bit different than normal and if so for how long.

I am not at all worried. In fact, it reinforces my belief all is going well and ahead of schedule.

"With the layout of my house, I just don't see any other option than the living room." - Is it possible to do it just inside of the bedroom by the door into the hallway to the bathroom? Both seem confident there, they know it there. Indy MIGHT be inclined to enjoy the bedroom BUT he knows it pretty well I believe. I just want Indy to be focused on the food and see if we can get Duncan distracted while Indy is eating. Any way to achieve that I think would be great.

If you just do not want to do that then maybe let Indy out into the living room before the session with Duncan, have Duncan in the bedroom and then do the eating session in the living room.

Personally I would try the first option then the second.

Just try to get Indy focused on the food (wherever it may be) and then try to get Duncan focused on something other than Indy.

Are you going to try it tonight again? Let it go maybe a touch longer and see how it goes. Distract as needed. I don't get a sense Duncan will try to kill Indy or vice versa BUT if ti gets too intense then just end it using a pillow or something. If you want to wait until tomorrow that is fine as well.

I will try to check again shortly. In a few hours I am going to be pretty busy with dinner and ferals and our cats etc so it gets more difficult to get on her.
 

Beyond Confused

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"Welllllll, he's explored the house a few times, and there really isn't a place I can do this where Indy is super comfortable that also allows avenues of escape." - I hear you. We'll have to sacrifice on one and I think it should be the avenues of escape. I don't think Duncan would go after him and not be able to be distracted (or be able to scoop up Indy or break it up in an other way). I would prioritize Indy being engrossed in the food and not interested in sniffing around vs having the escape routes. What do you think?
That's fine. I'll put Indy's food in the hallway like always, and I'll put Duncan's in the bedroom. They'll be able to see each other fine, but I can stand near the middle to stop them if it looks like it might turn negative.

How did they act after they were separated? Was there a little apprehension? Indy seemed like he had no issues (wanting to come out again) while Duncan left the door but I am wondering if he seemed amped up or acting a bit different than normal and if so for how long.
Duncan seemed just fine once he spoke his mind.


Are you going to try it tonight again? Let it go maybe a touch longer and see how it goes. Distract as needed. I don't get a sense Duncan will try to kill Indy or vice versa BUT if ti gets too intense then just end it using a pillow or something. If you want to wait until tomorrow that is fine as well.
Yes, I will try again in a bit.
 

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That's fine. I'll put Indy's food in the hallway like always, and I'll put Duncan's in the bedroom. They'll be able to see each other fine, but I can stand near the middle to stop them if it looks like it might turn negative.



Duncan seemed just fine once he spoke his mind.




Yes, I will try again in a bit.
"That's fine. I'll put Indy's food in the hallway like always, and I'll put Duncan's in the bedroom. They'll be able to see each other fine, but I can stand near the middle to stop them if it looks like it might turn negative." Sounds good. The key is to get Indy just focused on his food if at all possible. He can look up but then hopefully go back to eating.

"Duncan seemed just fine once he spoke his mind." - :yess: I thought that would be the case, love that it is confirmed. Tells me it din;t really faze Duncan which is great. He didn't view it negatively.

"Yes, I will try again in a bit." - Great. Hopefully they both will be very hungry. That helps a lot.
 

Beyond Confused

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I JUST DID IT AGAIN!!!!!

This time, I used the bedroom and hallway. I closed the LR/hallway door, but I kept the bathroom door open.

I put Duncan in the bedroom and closed the door, and then I opened the bathroom door. Indy wasn't the least bit interested in his food because I think he sensed something exciting was happening.

I got them each a little wet food because Indy can't resist that. I put the bowl down, and he face planted into it.

I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down. He saw Indy, but he immediately turned his back to him and checked his food over. He didn't eat, though. Instead he started making his way to the hallway. I stopped him several feet away from Indy and redirected him back to his own food. Keep in mind, Indy was way more interested in the food at this moment.
Duncan checked his food out and decided Indy was more interesting. We repeated the step above where he started walking toward Indy, and I redirected. Both times this happened, Duncan was slightly tentative, but his tail was straight in the air.


After a few minutes, I could see Indy was finishing his wet food, and Duncan was heading back toward him. This time, I let him go to see what would happen, since there hadn't been obvious issues.

Duncan got within a foot or so of Indy, and Indy turned around (Duncan hissed slightly), marched right up to Duncan and touched his nose with his. Duncan accepted it, though he made it known that Indy had better not try anything funny. Duncan has always done these funny, terse little meows under his breath, and that's what he did this time. But neither lashed out or showed any aggression. In fact, Indy spotted Duncan's open food bowls and made a beeline for them. Duncan was still standing in the hallway, so I scooped Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.

Shortly after, I came out to make a phone call, and Duncan started tapping me on my arm, same as always. He's been his typical self, no sign of stress. Yay!!!!!!! :cheerleader:
 

calicosrspecial

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I JUST DID IT AGAIN!!!!!

This time, I used the bedroom and hallway. I closed the LR/hallway door, but I kept the bathroom door open.

I put Duncan in the bedroom and closed the door, and then I opened the bathroom door. Indy wasn't the least bit interested in his food because I think he sensed something exciting was happening.

I got them each a little wet food because Indy can't resist that. I put the bowl down, and he face planted into it.

I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down. He saw Indy, but he immediately turned his back to him and checked his food over. He didn't eat, though. Instead he started making his way to the hallway. I stopped him several feet away from Indy and redirected him back to his own food. Keep in mind, Indy was way more interested in the food at this moment.
Duncan checked his food out and decided Indy was more interesting. We repeated the step above where he started walking toward Indy, and I redirected. Both times this happened, Duncan was slightly tentative, but his tail was straight in the air.


After a few minutes, I could see Indy was finishing his wet food, and Duncan was heading back toward him. This time, I let him go to see what would happen, since there hadn't been obvious issues.

Duncan got within a foot or so of Indy, and Indy turned around (Duncan hissed slightly), marched right up to Duncan and touched his nose with his. Duncan accepted it, though he made it known that Indy had better not try anything funny. Duncan has always done these funny, terse little meows under his breath, and that's what he did this time. But neither lashed out or showed any aggression. In fact, Indy spotted Duncan's open food bowls and made a beeline for them. Duncan was still standing in the hallway, so I scooped Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.

Shortly after, I came out to make a phone call, and Duncan started tapping me on my arm, same as always. He's been his typical self, no sign of stress. Yay!!!!!!! :cheerleader:
"This time, I used the bedroom and hallway. I closed the LR/hallway door, but I kept the bathroom door open." - Perfect

"I put Duncan in the bedroom and closed the door, and then I opened the bathroom door." - Perfect

" Indy wasn't the least bit interested in his food because I think he sensed something exciting was happening." - :/ He is too smart.

"I got them each a little wet food because Indy can't resist that. I put the bowl down, and he face planted into it." - Perfect

"I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down. He saw Indy, but he immediately turned his back to him and checked his food over." - :yess: EXACTLY what we are looking for!! :hyper:

"He didn't eat, though." - I am not surprised. This happens with resident cats all the time.

"Instead he started making his way to the hallway. I stopped him several feet away from Indy and redirected him back to his own food." - :yess: GREAT job redirecting him!! And I LOVE to hear he was redirected.

"Keep in mind, Indy was way more interested in the food at this moment." - Yep, that is what we want.

"Duncan checked his food out and decided Indy was more interesting." - Yep. And Duncan is right.

" We repeated the step above where he started walking toward Indy, and I redirected." - Great job!! Exactly what we want to do.

"Both times this happened, Duncan was slightly tentative, but his tail was straight in the air." - Normal but no negativity which is a positive. Tail up is REALLY good!

"After a few minutes, I could see Indy was finishing his wet food, and Duncan was heading back toward him. This time, I let him go to see what would happen, since there hadn't been obvious issues." - Good job.

"Duncan got within a foot or so of Indy, and Indy turned around (Duncan hissed slightly), marched right up to Duncan and touched his nose with his. Duncan accepted it, though he made it known that Indy had better not try anything funny. Duncan has always done these funny, terse little meows under his breath, and that's what he did this time." - Wow, very good. I am glad it was short. The longer it goes on the more it will cause issues.

"But neither lashed out or showed any aggression." - Awesome.

" In fact, Indy spotted Duncan's open food bowls and made a beeline for them. Duncan was still standing in the hallway, so I scooped Indy up and put him back in the bathroom." - GREAT. Indy showed Duncan that something else is more interesting than Duncan which helps build trust. You ended it on a positive. AND I LOVE that Duncan did not get "funny" when Indy made a beeline.

"Shortly after, I came out to make a phone call, and Duncan started tapping me on my arm, same as always. He's been his typical self, no sign of stress. Yay!!!!!!! :cheerleader: " - That tells us so much. He is not at all bothered, threatened by Indy. :cheerleader: I could not have said it better!!

Well, I am ecstatic!!! Honestly, it could not have gone better. Tomorrow, rinse and repeat.

They are going to be fine. We are on the homestretch!!!

GREAT job!!! You just did a textbook session!!! :clap2:
 

Beyond Confused

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Another day, another go at intros.

I tried again first thing this morning, and it went really, really well.

I started off the same as last night where I got Indy set up in the hallway. I had to get him a spoon of wet food bc that was the only way he was going to focus on something other than Duncan.

I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down. He turned his back toward Indy, which he actually did several times this morning, and he examined his food. He turned back to Indy, and walked straight to the hallway. I'm going to say he was 3.5 feet away from Indy. He just stood there, watching Indy eat his food. He probably stood there for a minute or so and then turned and walked back to the bedroom. The entire time, his tail was straight up in the air, and he was acting completely normal, no stress.

This went on for a while. Indy finished his wet food and immediately turned to the dry. Duncan watched from the bedroom from time to time. Other times, he didn't care and walked around.

When Indy was done, he walked straight to the bedroom. Duncan was okay, and he was taking the time to properly sniff all the places cats sniff :lol: . Eventually, Indy turned around, and they touched noses for a few seconds. At this point, Duncan was kind of getting a little snarly, but he was still okay. Then Indy decided it was his turn for a good sniff, and that's when Duncan decided things had gone too far. He raised a paw to Indy. I think Indy kind of raised one back, not sure. Bottom line: It didn't get out of control. I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom, and Duncan immediately went back to being Duncan.

I'm betting the whole thing went for 15 minutes or so.

I'd say it went really well.

I'll give it another shot later this evening.
 

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Another day, another go at intros.

I tried again first thing this morning, and it went really, really well.

I started off the same as last night where I got Indy set up in the hallway. I had to get him a spoon of wet food bc that was the only way he was going to focus on something other than Duncan.

I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down. He turned his back toward Indy, which he actually did several times this morning, and he examined his food. He turned back to Indy, and walked straight to the hallway. I'm going to say he was 3.5 feet away from Indy. He just stood there, watching Indy eat his food. He probably stood there for a minute or so and then turned and walked back to the bedroom. The entire time, his tail was straight up in the air, and he was acting completely normal, no stress.

This went on for a while. Indy finished his wet food and immediately turned to the dry. Duncan watched from the bedroom from time to time. Other times, he didn't care and walked around.

When Indy was done, he walked straight to the bedroom. Duncan was okay, and he was taking the time to properly sniff all the places cats sniff :lol: . Eventually, Indy turned around, and they touched noses for a few seconds. At this point, Duncan was kind of getting a little snarly, but he was still okay. Then Indy decided it was his turn for a good sniff, and that's when Duncan decided things had gone too far. He raised a paw to Indy. I think Indy kind of raised one back, not sure. Bottom line: It didn't get out of control. I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom, and Duncan immediately went back to being Duncan.

I'm betting the whole thing went for 15 minutes or so.

I'd say it went really well.

I'll give it another shot later this evening.
So I read the first line and go "oh oh".

Then I read this:

"I tried again first thing this morning, and it went really, really well." - And I am like :yess: :hyper: :clap2:

"I started off the same as last night where I got Indy set up in the hallway." - Perfect

" I had to get him a spoon of wet food bc that was the only way he was going to focus on something other than Duncan." - ABSOLUTELY. The EXACT right thing to do!!

"I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down." - Perfect

" He turned his back toward Indy, which he actually did several times this morning, and he examined his food." - WHOA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?! NO cat would turn there back on something they perceive as a threat. This is HUGE!!!!

"He turned back to Indy, and walked straight to the hallway. I'm going to say he was 3.5 feet away from Indy. He just stood there, watching Indy eat his food. He probably stood there for a minute or so and then turned and walked back to the bedroom. The entire time, his tail was straight up in the air, and he was acting completely normal, no stress." - WHOA!!! :yess::hyper::clap2::cheerleader::purr:

"This went on for a while. Indy finished his wet food and immediately turned to the dry. Duncan watched from the bedroom from time to time. Other times, he didn't care and walked around." - This is beyond my dreams. AWESOME!!!!

"When Indy was done, he walked straight to the bedroom." - Wow, confident cat.

" Duncan was okay," - LOVE this.

" and he was taking the time to properly sniff all the places cats sniff :lol: ." - Hahaha, yep.

"Eventually, Indy turned around, and they touched noses for a few seconds." - Yep, sniffing to identify.

" At this point, Duncan was kind of getting a little snarly, but he was still okay. " - Totally normal and great that he was ok.

"Then Indy decided it was his turn for a good sniff, and that's when Duncan decided things had gone too far." - Yep.

" He raised a paw to Indy. I think Indy kind of raised one back, not sure." - Yep. But here is the key. He raised a paw BUT it didn't escalate. They knew the line, they respected the line (actually way away from the line). This is such a good sign.

"Bottom line: It didn't get out of control." - AWESOME. There is trust!!!

" I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom" - Perfect.

", and Duncan immediately went back to being Duncan." - And Duncan tells us all is ok. He thinks that cat is cool. And this is really the key. Because of Duncan's health sensitivities we have to keep his stress low and do this right. I think you have done an amazing job to date.

"I'm betting the whole thing went for 15 minutes or so." WOW!!! THAT is a long time. REALLY good sign.

"I'd say it went really well." - Understatement of the thread BUT it is good to remain cautiously optimistic. We still have work to do but it is ok to give it a few more really, really's. :)

"I'll give it another shot later this evening." - Perfect. Keep it textbook like you are doing, keep it as positive as possible. Quality or quantity.

I am SO PROUD of you, Duncan and Indy!!! If you saw the smile on my face right now you would see the pride.

Keep up the great work and reinforcing those positive associations and encounters. We have a little more work to do but the end in in sight. :cheerleader:
 

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So I read the first line and go "oh oh".

Then I read this:

"I tried again first thing this morning, and it went really, really well." - And I am like :yess: :hyper: :clap2:

"I started off the same as last night where I got Indy set up in the hallway." - Perfect

" I had to get him a spoon of wet food bc that was the only way he was going to focus on something other than Duncan." - ABSOLUTELY. The EXACT right thing to do!!

"I opened the bedroom door and put Duncan's food down." - Perfect

" He turned his back toward Indy, which he actually did several times this morning, and he examined his food." - WHOA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?! NO cat would turn there back on something they perceive as a threat. This is HUGE!!!!

"He turned back to Indy, and walked straight to the hallway. I'm going to say he was 3.5 feet away from Indy. He just stood there, watching Indy eat his food. He probably stood there for a minute or so and then turned and walked back to the bedroom. The entire time, his tail was straight up in the air, and he was acting completely normal, no stress." - WHOA!!! :yess::hyper::clap2::cheerleader::purr:

"This went on for a while. Indy finished his wet food and immediately turned to the dry. Duncan watched from the bedroom from time to time. Other times, he didn't care and walked around." - This is beyond my dreams. AWESOME!!!!

"When Indy was done, he walked straight to the bedroom." - Wow, confident cat.

" Duncan was okay," - LOVE this.

" and he was taking the time to properly sniff all the places cats sniff :lol: ." - Hahaha, yep.

"Eventually, Indy turned around, and they touched noses for a few seconds." - Yep, sniffing to identify.

" At this point, Duncan was kind of getting a little snarly, but he was still okay. " - Totally normal and great that he was ok.

"Then Indy decided it was his turn for a good sniff, and that's when Duncan decided things had gone too far." - Yep.

" He raised a paw to Indy. I think Indy kind of raised one back, not sure." - Yep. But here is the key. He raised a paw BUT it didn't escalate. They knew the line, they respected the line (actually way away from the line). This is such a good sign.

"Bottom line: It didn't get out of control." - AWESOME. There is trust!!!

" I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom" - Perfect.

", and Duncan immediately went back to being Duncan." - And Duncan tells us all is ok. He thinks that cat is cool. And this is really the key. Because of Duncan's health sensitivities we have to keep his stress low and do this right. I think you have done an amazing job to date.

"I'm betting the whole thing went for 15 minutes or so." WOW!!! THAT is a long time. REALLY good sign.

"I'd say it went really well." - Understatement of the thread BUT it is good to remain cautiously optimistic. We still have work to do but it is ok to give it a few more really, really's. :)

"I'll give it another shot later this evening." - Perfect. Keep it textbook like you are doing, keep it as positive as possible. Quality or quantity.

I am SO PROUD of you, Duncan and Indy!!! If you saw the smile on my face right now you would see the pride.

Keep up the great work and reinforcing those positive associations and encounters. We have a little more work to do but the end in in sight. :cheerleader:
Thank you! I'm super excited, and I hope they have many amazing years together with a good bond.

In addition - I can't wait to get that bathroom back! C'mon, boys!
 

calicosrspecial

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Thank you! I'm super excited, and I hope they have many amazing years together with a good bond.

In addition - I can't wait to get that bathroom back! C'mon, boys!
You should be!!! I am glad you are!!! You deserve to be.

I do as well. It will be interesting to see. I have a sense. Will be interesting to see if my sense is correct.

How did Duncan and Admiral get along? Were thy friends, co-existing, snuggle bugs?

Hahahaha, yes, THAT is always nice!!! The sacrifices are worth it. :itslove:
 

Beyond Confused

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How did Duncan and Admiral get along? Were thy friends, co-existing, snuggle bugs?

Hahahaha, yes, THAT is always nice!!! The sacrifices are worth it. :itslove:
Oh my gosh, Admiral just loved the heck out of Duncan. He always wanted to be near him, which totally annoyed Duncan.

That's what usually started their "fights" that I mentioned above. Admiral would start off so sweetly just hugging on Duncan and washing him head. Duncan would enjoy it for a couple minutes, but then he'd be over it. He'd try to move away first, but Admiral wouldn't get the hint. Then, Duncan would put a paw up, as if to say, "seriously - stop." Admiral would keep going. The next thing I'd know was they would be rolling around on the ground, screeching to high heaven, fur flying everywhere, and that's when I'd step in. They'd scatter, but then they'd quickly move to opposite sides of the door, crying for each other.

They got along well, but I didn't realize how much Duncan would miss Admiral until I had to put him down. He paced and cried out literally all day and night. It was really rough.

So they got along well. I'm hoping the same will happen here. They were only a few months apart, though, vs the large age gap between Duncan and Indy.
 

Beyond Confused

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Round 2 tonight:
It was mostly positive.

Once again, there were many times where Duncan sat with his back to the hallway and Indy. He also stood in the bedroom doorway and watched Indy a couple times, no issue.

The problems start to crop up with Indy comes in the bedroom and wants to sniff Duncan. It's the sniffing and personal space invasion, not Indy being "in the bedroom."

Tonight, when Indy was trying to sniff, Duncan hissed a couple times. Indy sat down and obeyed, but then he tried to give it another go. Duncan took a swipe at him...and then Indy gave it back in return. Duncan ran around to the other side of the bed, so I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.

Directly following me putting Indy back in the bathroom, Duncan was back to his old self and wasn't bothered.

So I guess I'm not 100% sure what to do. I feel like Indy needs to sniff just like Duncan needs to, so I'm not sure if redirecting at these moments is what I should be doing.
 

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I personally think you handled it fine, you let things happen for a little bit and then separated them so that Duncan remained pretty calm. I think the time will become longer the more they are together.
 

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We tried again this morning. Indy strutted right into the bedroom a couple times to try to steal Duncan's food, which did not please Duncan. It was more of Duncan just kind of growling, maybe a little hissing, but nothing got out of control. I just picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom.
 

calicosrspecial

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Oh my gosh, Admiral just loved the heck out of Duncan. He always wanted to be near him, which totally annoyed Duncan.

That's what usually started their "fights" that I mentioned above. Admiral would start off so sweetly just hugging on Duncan and washing him head. Duncan would enjoy it for a couple minutes, but then he'd be over it. He'd try to move away first, but Admiral wouldn't get the hint. Then, Duncan would put a paw up, as if to say, "seriously - stop." Admiral would keep going. The next thing I'd know was they would be rolling around on the ground, screeching to high heaven, fur flying everywhere, and that's when I'd step in. They'd scatter, but then they'd quickly move to opposite sides of the door, crying for each other.

They got along well, but I didn't realize how much Duncan would miss Admiral until I had to put him down. He paced and cried out literally all day and night. It was really rough.

So they got along well. I'm hoping the same will happen here. They were only a few months apart, though, vs the large age gap between Duncan and Indy.
I m sorry, I was going to ask you how things are going. I never got an alert about your updates.

"Oh my gosh, Admiral just loved the heck out of Duncan. He always wanted to be near him, which totally annoyed Duncan." - Interesting. Good history to know. That is pretty common.

"That's what usually started their "fights" that I mentioned above. Admiral would start off so sweetly just hugging on Duncan and washing him head. Duncan would enjoy it for a couple minutes, but then he'd be over it. He'd try to move away first, but Admiral wouldn't get the hint. Then, Duncan would put a paw up, as if to say, "seriously - stop." Admiral would keep going. The next thing I'd know was they would be rolling around on the ground, screeching to high heaven, fur flying everywhere, and that's when I'd step in. They'd scatter, but then they'd quickly move to opposite sides of the door, crying for each other. " - Yep, that does happen. I helped someones recently whose cats would play so rough BUT they LOVED each other. I have 2 ferals in my colony that are exactly like Admiral and Duncan.

"They got along well, but I didn't realize how much Duncan would miss Admiral until I had to put him down. He paced and cried out literally all day and night. It was really rough." - I know. They don't always show it. Then we realize how much they really did love each other. I have gone through that more times than I care to remember. It is hard on the cat and hard on us. I am so sorry about Admiral.

"So they got along well. I'm hoping the same will happen here. They were only a few months apart, though, vs the large age gap between Duncan and Indy." - Yes. Sometimes when they are close in age it is a bit more challenging. Sometimes when there is an age gap there is a more defined hierarchy. I think they will definitely get along. How close they will be? I don't know.

"Round 2 tonight:
It was mostly positive." - Good.

"Once again, there were many times where Duncan sat with his back to the hallway and Indy. He also stood in the bedroom doorway and watched Indy a couple times, no issue." - AWESOME!!!

"The problems start to crop up with Indy comes in the bedroom and wants to sniff Duncan. It's the sniffing and personal space invasion, not Indy being "in the bedroom."" - Yes, that is normal. What we want to do is reassure "It's ok", use some distraction with words.

"Tonight, when Indy was trying to sniff, Duncan hissed a couple times." - Totally normal.

" Indy sat down and obeyed" - THIS IS AWESOME. He respected the communication. Which shows Duncan that he doesn't mean harm, isn't a negative. This action builds trust between them. This is really important and a great sign.

"but then he tried to give it another go. Duncan took a swipe at him...and then Indy gave it back in return." - Yep, pretty normal. It usually starts to escalate with more attempts. What I do is I try to reassure and distract to avoid a second or third pass at it. With that said not an issue. It didn't escalate which is good.

"Duncan ran around to the other side of the bed, so I picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom." - Good job. Avoiding any potential negative.

"Directly following me putting Indy back in the bathroom, Duncan was back to his old self and wasn't bothered." - :yess: EXACTLY what we want to see. Duncan is telling us it was not an issue. THAT is really good.

"So I guess I'm not 100% sure what to do. I feel like Indy needs to sniff just like Duncan needs to, so I'm not sure if redirecting at these moments is what I should be doing." - I like to reassure and redirect. I am a big believer in avoiding negatives. Not that your incident was really that negative. But I like to reassure and redirect. Words and emotions are really powerful in helping the cats get comfortable in situations like that. If that doesn't work then redirecting can avoid a negative. And every time they avoid a negative it is a positive.

"We tried again this morning. Indy strutted right into the bedroom a couple times to try to steal Duncan's food, which did not please Duncan." - Nope, that tends to make them a little upset.

"It was more of Duncan just kind of growling, maybe a little hissing, but nothing got out of control." - THAT is really good.

"I just picked Indy up and put him back in the bathroom." - So here I would try to redirect him before taking him away. If you can get Indy to turn his back and walk away from Duncan that is really positive. It shows Duncan that he doesn't mean any harm. If Indy and Duncan start getting into it then it is time to break it up and remove Indy.

Don't worry. You will handle it fine. So far you have done a great job. They are fine, I don't see any real issues. The sniffing it normal and they will do it less and less and as long as it doesn't escalate too much and that there isn't any lingering issues after it then we can easily work through that.

So you are totally on track, ahead of schedule and they will be intro'd successfully. No doubt. Just keep up the great work!!
 

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Tonight was not as successful as previous meetings. Everything was going ok. Duncan was actually eating his food tonight, which is a first. He even had his back to the door several times. He even walked over to Indy at one point, making noises to show his dissatisfaction, naturally, but they touched noses, and Duncan walked away.

Indy, with his one-track mind, kept trying to get to Duncan's food. I kept pushing him back, and eventually, he started just falling over on his side and watching Duncan.

So far, so good. Duncan hissed at him a couple times, and he looked like he was agreeing to Duncan's terms.

Eventually, Indy made it into the bedroom. Duncan hissed and made noises, and Indy sat down.

Then, Duncan turned his back for a second, and Indy went on the attack. He lunged at Duncan, chasing him around the bed. I was able to snatch Indy up, and back in the bathroom he went.

It's been a few minutes since that exchange, and Duncan seems fine.

All in all, I would say the whole thing lasted 20+ minutes before Indy became a pistol. :livid:
 

calicosrspecial

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Tonight was not as successful as previous meetings. Everything was going ok. Duncan was actually eating his food tonight, which is a first. He even had his back to the door several times. He even walked over to Indy at one point, making noises to show his dissatisfaction, naturally, but they touched noses, and Duncan walked away.

Indy, with his one-track mind, kept trying to get to Duncan's food. I kept pushing him back, and eventually, he started just falling over on his side and watching Duncan.

So far, so good. Duncan hissed at him a couple times, and he looked like he was agreeing to Duncan's terms.

Eventually, Indy made it into the bedroom. Duncan hissed and made noises, and Indy sat down.

Then, Duncan turned his back for a second, and Indy went on the attack. He lunged at Duncan, chasing him around the bed. I was able to snatch Indy up, and back in the bathroom he went.

It's been a few minutes since that exchange, and Duncan seems fine.

All in all, I would say the whole thing lasted 20+ minutes before Indy became a pistol. :livid:
"Tonight was not as successful as previous meetings." - There are always ups and downs. Totally expected.

"Everything was going ok. Duncan was actually eating his food tonight, which is a first." - WOW!!! AWESOME!!!

"He even had his back to the door several times." - Awesome, a great sign of trust.

" He even walked over to Indy at one point, making noises to show his dissatisfaction, naturally, but they touched noses, and Duncan walked away." - Great!! I LOVE nothing negative and Duncan walked away. Exactly what we want to see.

"Indy, with his one-track mind, kept trying to get to Duncan's food. I kept pushing him back, and eventually, he started just falling over on his side and watching Duncan." - Yep. When he went on his side was it playful? What did Duncan do?

"So far, so good. Duncan hissed at him a couple times, and he looked like he was agreeing to Duncan's terms." - Yep, actually near perfect.

"Eventually, Indy made it into the bedroom. Duncan hissed and made noises, and Indy sat down." - Really great Indy respected Duncan. That builds Duncan's trust and confidence.

"Then, Duncan turned his back for a second, and Indy went on the attack. He lunged at Duncan, chasing him around the bed." - Was it play? This happens all the time. I would guess it was play but I want to hear your view,

This tells me we probably let them together a bit too long and Duncan needs a little more confidence. If Duncan would have held his ground my guess is Indy would have paused.

Here is also a really good time to pull out a toy and see if Indy chooses toy over brother. I know it happens fast and can be scary but it tells us a lot.

Was there any big tails? Ears back? Eyes dilated? Hair up?

"I was able to snatch Indy up, and back in the bathroom he went." - Ok. Here I would like to try to use a toy or words or food to distract. If we get Indy to focus away it gives Duncan more confidence, more trust.

"It's been a few minutes since that exchange, and Duncan seems fine." - Well that is great!!! Fast rebound. Tells me Duncan wasn't that afraid.

"All in all, I would say the whole thing lasted 20+ minutes before Indy became a pistol." -20 minutes is a long time for 4 days into face to face sessions. We probably overstayed our welcome. Was too long. He became a playful kitten (Indy). BUT with that said it sounds like it went really well.

So next time maybe play with Indy in the bedroom for 20 minutes or however much. Then put his food down where he was eating as he has been these last few days. Replicates the Hunt, Capture, Kill, Eat. Gives confidence in the bedroom AND maybe, just maybe gets some energy out. After you get Indy with his food bring in Duncan with his food. And then do everything the same as you have been. And if they are sniffing distract as needed to keep it positive. Maybe end it after 10 minutes or 15. Then a few hours after the session build Duncan;s confidence in the bedroom with play (if possible) and some love.

So overall, I say it was a good session. Sure the chase we would have liked to avoid BUT Duncan didn't seemed bothered (fast rebound) so we may think it is less than ideal BUT he sure wasn;t fazed too much by it and that is what matters.

Still on track. Rinse and repeat. Take 2.
 

Beyond Confused

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"Indy, with his one-track mind, kept trying to get to Duncan's food. I kept pushing him back, and eventually, he started just falling over on his side and watching Duncan." - Yep. When he went on his side was it playful? What did Duncan do?
Indy would either fall on his side or just flat out lie down with his feet in front. He's stay like that for maybe :30 or so, and then he'd try to make a move for the food again. Shockingly enough, Duncan continued eating through all of it.
I'm going to say that Indy was about 3 feet away, on the other side of my legs doing his flopping.


"Then, Duncan turned his back for a second, and Indy went on the attack. He lunged at Duncan, chasing him around the bed." - Was it play? This happens all the time. I would guess it was play but I want to hear your view,
Maybe in Indy's eyes, but the screeching made me think it wasn't so much play. I don't know.


Was there any big tails? Ears back? Eyes dilated? Hair up?
Not sure - they were on the other side of the bed in a flash, so I could only hear, no see.


"I was able to snatch Indy up, and back in the bathroom he went." - Ok. Here I would like to try to use a toy or words or food to distract. If we get Indy to focus away it gives Duncan more confidence, more trust.
I'll try that next time. My main concern was protecting Duncan.


"All in all, I would say the whole thing lasted 20+ minutes before Indy became a pistol." -20 minutes is a long time for 4 days into face to face sessions. We probably overstayed our welcome. Was too long. He became a playful kitten (Indy). BUT with that said it sounds like it went really well.
I'm glad you think so. lol


So next time maybe play with Indy in the bedroom for 20 minutes or however much. Then put his food down where he was eating as he has been these last few days. Replicates the Hunt, Capture, Kill, Eat. Gives confidence in the bedroom AND maybe, just maybe gets some energy out. After you get Indy with his food bring in Duncan with his food. And then do everything the same as you have been. And if they are sniffing distract as needed to keep it positive. Maybe end it after 10 minutes or 15. Then a few hours after the session build Duncan;s confidence in the bedroom with play (if possible) and some love.
I'll give that a shot this evening.
 
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