Introducing A New Cat (and Prob. Making Every Possible Mistake)

[Sharkybu]

(Sorry it's messy, I'm writing this at 3 a.m.) So for the past two weeks they've been un-separated during the night. Yet they wake me up every night when they start fighting and i separate them till morning (cause i fall back asleep). they are separated when i'm not home. today i left for about 15 minutes and left them both in the living room and when I came back I found some mess that indicated there was some chasing. I planned on leaving them un-separated when I went to my nieces birthday but they stared fighting right before, so i changed my mind.
Tonight stella was sleeping with me when Betsy just jumped on the bed and started smacking her. I moved her away (like always) and went to bathroom when I heard her chasing Stella again. I locked Stella in the bedroom for a bit (she ate, went to the litter box) and than she stood next to the gate crying again, so I opened it. and betsy smacked her again, so I put her back in the room. (FYI, Usually when they start fighting Stella runs to the room, its her safety zone). and after a while she was standing by the gate again (normal behavior for the last two weeks) this time betsy didn't just jump her but she grabbed her and and didn't let go. It took me a bit to separate them (i even got scratched for my efforts), Stella pooped on her self and after she didn't breath properly for like a second (she's slightly asthmatic).

It feels like we're making a step forward and seven steps back.
Am I doing something wrong?
I know some cats who live together fight their all lives but it feels to me like Stella is always defending herself (although she does try to catch Betsy'd tail when the both cuddle to me on the couch) and I'm scared for her.

I added two photos- one of them cuddling with me on the coach (Betsy is sniffing my nose while Stella is sitting on my shoulder); The other is a minute before a fight (Stella is growling while Betsy stalks around her).

 

[KarenKat]

Personally, it’s really hard to tell “progress”, at least for us. Olive (our newcomer, with is for a year now) hardly ever starts things. She is a defensive growler. But she will also join us in rooms and won’t stand to be left out. Her personality has actually been very helpful during the integration because she doesn’t get too stressed out, she isn’t aggressive and she pushes to be part of the family.

Even with her great personality, Trin will follow her around the room relentlessly whacking at her. She can outrun him, but she is obviously unhappy being chased all he time. And with Gohan they are constantly playing some deadly game of cat and ... also cat. They will see each other and freeze, once in a while one of them pounces and runs off. But it isn’t necessarily peaceful. Stella pooping is a sign of stress, which Olive did twice in the beginning. Hopefully she’s calmer soon and they can work it out.

Trin and Olive (Trin is the larger Tabby on the left):

 

[Sharkybu]

Aren't you ever scared that they'll hurt each other bad? Stella always ends with scratches on her face, and I'm scared Betsy is gonna scratch her eyes.

 

[rubysmama]

Sharkybu : Sorry things don't seem a lot better between Betsy and Stella. Are they the reason you were posting at 3 AM.

How old is Stella now? She isn't spayed, is she?

KarenKat : How often do Trin and Olive fight like that? As a single cat mama, that looks scary to me!

 

[Sharkybu]

rubysmama The fight I wrote about happened 5 seconds before I posted, so yes.
Stella is about 7-8 month old and is spayed.

 

[KarenKat]

rubysmama - not super often. This usually is when Trin gets a bee in his bonnet and stomps up to her. More often they take turns chasing around the house and it’s not that scary.

Trin is actually declawed, unfortunately, so we know he can’t really do much damage. I think in the last year there was one ear chomp on him that might have been from her. And Olive is always able to escape easily so she doesn’t typically get too trapped. Trin can’t jump onto counters either so she goes up there if she wants peace.

 

[rubysmama]

rubysmama The fight I wrote about happened 5 seconds before I posted, so yes.
Stella is about 7-8 month old and is spayed.

I was hoping maybe Stella wasn't spayed yet, and that hormones were affecting their interactions. But, I guess not.

rubysmama - not super often. This usually is when Trin gets a bee in his bonnet and stomps up to her.

That's good, that it doesn't happen often.

 

[Sharkybu]

I keep talking about there fights here, but there are a lot of cute moments too. So I decided to share a few.

 

[Sharkybu]

forgot the pics...

 

[Kflowers]

I don't know if this is common, but when my cats would do the pound each other's head fighting, they closed their eyes. Humans are taught to keep eye contact, but to keep their eyes expressionless. Maybe cats are different, Could be mine were weird.

 

[Sharkybu]

Maybe it's to protect their eyes? Human don't tend to scratch, cats do.

 

[Sharkybu]

So...
After over three month I got to sleep in my bed again. and they both slept with me for a few days. When I'm home I don't separate them, but I do have to intervene in fights. When I leave Stella is locked in the bedroom. on Friday (a week and a half ago, they both slept in the bed all day, on Saturday they fought and Stella refused to leave her box (even fought me when I got her out).
in the last week (when they're not separated) Stella is either in her box or the kitchen and they sometimes stay in the same room with no problem and then they start fighting.
Every time I thought about not separating them when I leave they started fighting right before I got out of the door. there fight ended in a few bloody scratches.
I still sleep in my bed but Stella sleeps in the box and Betsy sometimes attacks her in there. Last night Stella came to sleep with me on the bed and when I woke up she was still there with Betsy eyeing her, and then hitting her.
I try not to intervene in every fight, in case my intervening is causing more harm then good. tonight the fought again in the kitchen and when i went to get Stella (i sometimes bring her to the couch to cuddle with me) there was a small puddle of blood under her. She has a wound at the base of her tail. it's night now so i'm waiting till morning to see If I have to take her to the vet. (I'm not sure if the wound is from a fight, i also heard a crash in the kitchen before but found no sign to what crashed).
I don't know what to do, and if the fact that i'm intervening in the fights and keeping them separated when i leave is causing more harm then good.
It's been 5 month since Stella joined us.
(now they are separated so Stella will be calm and wont hurt her self even more)

 

[Sharkybu]

some pics for update. one is from the Friday they spent in bed together, one from last Friday when they sorta cuddled on the coach. the other is Stella's box- there is an opening in the cardboard leading to the wooden cabinet behind, and the litter box is there. The last is from the kitchen table, a non fighting one.

 

[rubysmama]

So sorry things are still not good between them. Is Betsy always the aggressor?

One idea, if you end up taking Stella to the vet, if you have a second carrier, maybe try taking Betsy too. It's possible if they both left the house, and came back smelling the same (the vet office) things might be better between them.

Even if you don't take Stella to the vet, and hopefully the wound isn't serious enough to warrant a vet visit, could you try taking them both somewhere? Even just a car ride. Just to get them both out of the same territory for a bit.

We have members who take both cats to the vet every time one needs to go, otherwise re-directed aggression occurs between the bonded cats when the one that went to the vet returns.

BTW, how many litter boxes do you have?

 

[Sharkybu]

It's mostly Betsy, she the one who always approaches, but Stella did send the first whack a few times.
Last time I did take them to the vet together and I need to take Betsy again soon. It looks like the wound is not that bad, so I might wait till I take them to the vet (The place I go has three vets, I rather take them the day the owner is there).
Taking them on a car ride is a problem, Betsy hates the car, she cries so bad when the car is in motion.
They have two of everything, litter box, food and water plates, and in the beginning even the toys, now they have a few that they both play with (not in the same time).

 

[radarlove413]

Hey! It looks like you're being super patient and a great cat Mom in a difficult situation I agree with what the others have said about taking both to the vet, if possible, so their scents match.

Some experiences from my own integrations:
Sometimes a Thundershirt can help the aggressor cat, because it comforts them and can limit their lunging and stalking movements. It's really helped one of my cats with his fear aggression.

Also, sometimes making extra vertical space on furniture can really help too. In our home, I have some really comfy cat beds on top of our dining room hutch, the kitchen cabinets, and in the bottom of a book case downstairs. It helps our one cat feel really safe.

Lastly: some fighting can still be normal months into an integration! Our two residents sometimes still have their moments, and I'll hear a fight and come downstairs to find a pile of fur. They tend to get over it after a little while and go back to being good roommates. Unless it's a bad fight with blood drawn, I tend to agree that intervening can do more harm than good, because it's sometimes how cats work out the pecking order. Of course, that's if they back down and it doesn't escalate into serious wounds.

 

[Kflowers]

About the car rides. If a cat is terrified it is silent. When you are hiding even hiding in your carrier you are silent. That keeps the predators from finding you.

Screaming, yowling, hissing in the carrier means "I hate it here? Why are you doing this to me? ^&*^(*&% %)" Repeat again and again. This is a pissed off cat, not a frightened one. You aren't making her more fearful by taking her in the car. You are pissing her off. Cats recover from being pissed off, even from rage in a matter of minutes or hours depending on the cat.

When you open the carrier at the vets, the surprise of not being home damps down the rage. When you open the carrier and they are back home, the relief that everyone survived -- despite your not listening to cat -- damps down the rage. Sulking may take a few minutes or a couple of days.

Do not feel guilty about taking her in the carrier. Remember you're pissing her off, not frightening her.

 

[Sharkybu]

Hey! It looks like you're being super patient and a great cat Mom in a difficult situation I agree with what the others have said about taking both to the vet, if possible, so their scents match.

Some experiences from my own integrations:
Sometimes a Thundershirt can help the aggressor cat, because it comforts them and can limit their lunging and stalking movements. It's really helped one of my cats with his fear aggression.

Also, sometimes making extra vertical space on furniture can really help too. In our home, I have some really comfy cat beds on top of our dining room hutch, the kitchen cabinets, and in the bottom of a book case downstairs. It helps our one cat feel really safe.

Lastly: some fighting can still be normal months into an integration! Our two residents sometimes still have their moments, and I'll hear a fight and come downstairs to find a pile of fur. They tend to get over it after a little while and go back to being good roommates. Unless it's a bad fight with blood drawn, I tend to agree that intervening can do more harm than good, because it's sometimes how cats work out the pecking order. Of course, that's if they back down and it doesn't escalate into serious wounds.

Thank you for the great cat mom remark.
They each have their safe zone (although I had to block one since they both started getting in there and fighting and I can't reach them in there without breaking it).
I try not to intervene until the actual fight strat (got a few bites and scratches cause of it).

 

[Sharkybu]

About the car rides. If a cat is terrified it is silent. When you are hiding even hiding in your carrier you are silent. That keeps the predators from finding you.

Screaming, yowling, hissing in the carrier means "I hate it here? Why are you doing this to me? ^&*^(*&% %)" Repeat again and again. This is a pissed off cat, not a frightened one. You aren't making her more fearful by taking her in the car. You are pissing her off. Cats recover from being pissed off, even from rage in a matter of minutes or hours depending on the cat.

When you open the carrier at the vets, the surprise of not being home damps down the rage. When you open the carrier and they are back home, the relief that everyone survived -- despite your not listening to cat -- damps down the rage. Sulking may take a few minutes or a couple of days.

Do not feel guilty about taking her in the carrier. Remember you're pissing her off, not frightening her.

She don't really scream, it's more like she cries.
and it is a terrible fight to get her into the cage, then she screams and hiss and fights me.
she only cries when the car moves, but the few times I took her by tram, she was okay, Its only in the car that's she cries.

 

[danteshuman]

My cats only cried on the way to vet. The kitten I take on car rides to see his siblings and he gets better with each ride. His sister to. His brother is a work in progress. We are doing it while they are kittens so it makes more of an impression.
My point is that if you take your cats for lots of car rides they will eventually learn that nothing bad happens.