I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

Truly wonderful. I won’t say nothing will ever happen again but it sure feels like you are over the hump! Funny..... it’s Wednesday!

I think we are over the hump! Today Finn used Charlie's litter box, Charlie waited til Finn was done, then he got in and used it, too. Total peace and calm! This evening they also shared the highly desired hidden windowsill that Charlie used to be so territorial over. As I'm typing this, Finn is sitting in my lap (after dark!!!) grooming himself and Charlie is sitting in his perch at the window. I am in love with my "new" life.

So now I'm wondering - how long does this portion of the process last? At what point will I know that it's okay to leave them out together when I run to the store? Am I being lulled into a false sense of security, or are we truly over that hump?

Edit to add: I forgot another little victory that happened tonight! At one point Charlie And Finn were on the bed, and Charlie gave the top of Finn's head several licks, not as a dominance thing but more of a parental-type gesture it seemed? No response from Finn, but he accepted it!

 

[Jcatbird]

I would do very short test runs before allowing them to be real room mates. Take a walk, a drive to the gas station etc. and see how they do. I don’t know the range on you baby monitors but spy if you can. I have a feeling that if you are not there, they may be even less likely to have a spat but there are no guarantees on that. Give them some more days of peace before pushing anything.
I do think the Charlie licks are sort of parental. He has been trying to teach Finn from the start IMHO. I’ve yet to see anything that I truly thought was real hostility from either.

 

[Buffster7]

I would do very short test runs before allowing them to be real room mates. Take a walk, a drive to the gas station etc. and see how they do. I don’t know the range on you baby monitors but spy if you can. I have a feeling that if you are not there, they may be even less likely to have a spat but there are no guarantees on that. Give them some more days of peace before pushing anything.
I do think the Charlie licks are sort of parental. He has been trying to teach Finn from the start IMHO. I’ve yet to see anything that I truly thought was real hostility from either.

Okay, good! I'll be home with them over the weekend and can do a lot of observing then. My baby cam only scans the living room where the cat tree and cage are. I check on Charlie all the time when I'm not home, love that thing. But there are so many parts of the house unmonitored, I wasn't sure how long it usually takes once we get to this point to fully trust them alone together. I guess we'll see over the weekend if they get sick of each other! Thanks Jcatbird!

 

[Jcatbird]

I don’t really need my baby monitors anymore but I keep them hooked up anyway. Lol I just like being able to keep track of things in the rest of the house. Things like water bowls being turned over. The ones I have actually have a range that covers two acres so they were one of my best investments ever. Love them and would recommend them to all who have fur babies. My second eldest likes to go in the back and pat at one to get my attention. Works like a charm. He’s such a joker.,

 

[pearl99]

It was about two weeks of calm before I left the house for short periods. That may be longer than was needed, but was just me. Then I'd go to the grocery for a couple of items only, take a 10 minute walk, do a little yard work (not really the time of year for that now...so shovel some snow...)- short things.

 

[pearl99]

I think we are over the hump! Today Finn used Charlie's litter box, Charlie waited til Finn was done, then he got in and used it, too. Total peace and calm! This evening they also shared the highly desired hidden windowsill that Charlie used to be so territorial over. As I'm typing this, Finn is sitting in my lap (after dark!!!) grooming himself and Charlie is sitting in his perch at the window. I am in love with my "new" life.

So now I'm wondering - how long does this portion of the process last? At what point will I know that it's okay to leave them out together when I run to the store? Am I being lulled into a false sense of security, or are we truly over that hump?

Edit to add: I forgot another little victory that happened tonight! At one point Charlie And Finn were on the bed, and Charlie gave the top of Finn's head several licks, not as a dominance thing but more of a parental-type gesture it seemed? No response from Finn, but he accepted it!

This sounds soooo good! So is Finn's yelling to go out better too?
Your furbabies are soooo happy to have you and each other.

 

[Buffster7]

My second eldest likes to go in the back and pat at one to get my attention. Works like a charm. He’s such a joker

That is hilarious! And so cute! Cats are smart, they know how to get our attention, make us come running, and keep us wrapped around their little claws.

It was about two weeks of calm before I left the house for short periods. That may be longer than was needed, but was just me. Then I'd go to the grocery for a couple of items only, take a 10 minute walk, do a little yard work (not really the time of year for that now...so shovel some snow...)- short things

I may give that a try this weekend. Shoot, I could even just pull the car out of the garage and drive around the block. Did yours ever have any setbacks when left alone in the beginning?

This sounds soooo good! So is Finn's yelling to go out better too?

Oh, he still yells. He just takes longer breaks now. He is REALLY whiney when the sun goes down. I got into the habit of giving him a treat at bedtime so I could escape his room - it was the only way I could gain enough time to slip out the door because he is FAST. Now as bedtime approaches he starts screaming even louder and more insistent, and he's screaming for his bedtime snack. He is absolutely food-obsessed and acts like he's starving ALL the time. It's going to be a constant battle to not over-treat or over-feed him because he's so insistent and desperate that I feel like he's starving all the time and I find myself giving him a little extra at his mealtimes sometimes - it's psychological warfare at meal time here. Poor little dude! But I can't allow him to gain too much weight, because I'm seeing how difficult it is to get weight off of Charlie. Both my boys are food-obsessed...I thought Charlie was bad, but Finn is even worse. So sad that he ever experienced that level of hunger that created this near-panic about food.

 

[rubysmama]

My Ruby was food obsessed when I first adopted her too. It took, I think, 6 or 8 months before she finally started to graze. So hopefully, in time, Finn will relax a bit around food.

 

[Buffster7]

Interesting interaction. This will be the first day Finn has been out all day since last weekend. He has been walking around the house crying. He just does not know what to do with himself and cannot settle down. Charlie came up to Finn to lick his head just now. Finn jumped at Charlie and bit him afterward. This made Charlie MAD. Charlie went for Finn, Finn fell backwards, and it looked like Charlie bit him in the genital area and made Finn yelp. Charlie had him cornered and still looked pretty mad, so of course I couldn't help myself and just said, "It's okay guys, it's okay" and got up and walked away - and they followed, which broke up the interaction. Now Charlie is walking around the house crying a little bit, And Finn is treading very cautiously.

 

[Buffster7]

Charlie just went for Finn again. It felt like Finn was being bullied, but I should not have intervened, right? I need someone to gag me and tie me to my chair so I will allow them to work it out.

 

[Furballsmom]

but I should not have intervened, right? I

Correct, that was just a tussle, not a big deal in the cat world

 

[pearl99]

I may give that a try this weekend. Shoot, I could even just pull the car out of the garage and drive around the block. Did yours ever have any setbacks when left alone in the beginning?
Oh, he still yells. He just takes longer breaks now. He is REALLY whiney when the sun goes down. I got into the habit of giving him a treat at bedtime so I could escape his room - it was the only way I could gain enough time to slip out the door because he is FAST. Now as bedtime approaches he starts screaming even louder and more insistent, and he's screaming for his bedtime snack. He is absolutely food-obsessed and acts like he's starving ALL the time.

There were no setbacks that I knew of. No damage to either when I got home and no one hiding.
Finn sounds like Moo and food. She's a bit plump because I have given in . Waffles is a total grazer and Moo always wants more. I have the funniest video of her having learned how to get more food when she wants from my previous brand of automatic feeder.
I wonder if Finn's whining when the sun goes down is their being crepuscular and that being when they instinctively hunt for food if an outside feral cat. Memories.

Charlie just went for Finn again. It felt like Finn was being bullied, but I should not have intervened, right? I need someone to gag me and tie me to my chair so I will allow them to work it out.

It's hard not to intervene with those sounds and how they look. I don't intervene when mine do that (and they still do occasionally.) But I had to learn not to. It's always Waffles who initiates that. Moo has learned when to give up, but mostly she bops Waffs back for a bit. Mostly Waffs will back off now. After adopting her Moo always ran from him.
Moo also will walk carefully around Waffles if in certain spots ( HIS spots that he will make her moove from), and in the beginning after I got her. Just being submissive so to not provoke the dominant one, and saying "hey I'm cool here, I'm not going to bother you." And to not look like prey. It's a good thing, the creeping one not wanting to start an incident.
I would bet yours learn boundaries more, but Finn may take some more time and Charlie may decide to do more "teaching." But they are both able to eat, drink, litter box, play and aren't afraid of each other and hiding so all is good. And aren't inflicting wounds.

 

[pearl99]

Interesting interaction. This will be the first day Finn has been out all day since last weekend. He has been walking around the house crying. He just does not know what to do with himself and cannot settle down. Charlie came up to Finn to lick his head just now. Finn jumped at Charlie and bit him afterward. This made Charlie MAD. Charlie went for Finn, Finn fell backwards, and it looked like Charlie bit him in the genital area and made Finn yelp. Charlie had him cornered and still looked pretty mad, so of course I couldn't help myself and just said, "It's okay guys, it's okay" and got up and walked away - and they followed, which broke up the interaction. Now Charlie is walking around the house crying a little bit, And Finn is treading very cautiously.

Awww Charlie being affectionate and Finn taking it wrong? Anyway it seems like them working themselves out. Charlie maybe meowing just to communicate with you some feelings? Who said men don't feel very much. Finn creeping to not provoke Charlie, totally normally and cat-like.

 

[Jcatbird]

I know you are kind of shaken. This is why you only take a short time outside at this point. This still isn’t a true fight. Charlie is teaching Finn cat manners and to chill. I know you worry about weight gain but some cats eat a lot at meals but also there are grazers. They like a bit here and there through the day. I don’t know if you leave a bowl of food out for Finn at night but maybe you could see if that satisfies him for now. Comfort food. Maybe just some dry in his room? It might help and you can watch to monitor calories if he overdoes it. He’s still young and his metabolism as well as activity level may have him wanting more. Again though, at this point I would just view it as comfort food. It could add to his level of feeling secure as well as his hunting instinct. Worth trying.

 

[pearl99]

Comfort food. Maybe just some dry in his room? It might help and you can watch to monitor calories if he overdoes it. He’s still young and his metabolism as well as activity level may have him wanting more. Again though, at this point I would just view it as comfort food. It could add to his level of feeling secure as well as his hunting instinct. Worth trying.

Great info.
I also do this with Waffles, he meows at me if he is hungry and I give him some dry or wet food between their main meals on the first basement step (his spot for eating so Moo can't get the food) and close the door since Moo eats everything in sight. I've even learned his "I'm hungry" meow. Just like with babies and their hungry cry...

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you so much for all of your feedback, guys - it is so helpful.

My Ruby was food obsessed when I first adopted her too. It took, I think, 6 or 8 months before she finally started to graze. So hopefully, in time, Finn will relax a bit around food.

I am hoping for the same. Charlie is still food-obsessed, but not with the same urgency as Finn. He used to love to graze and was able to leave a little food in his dish to come back to later... but Finn will polish it all off, so I've noticed Charlie gulping down his food now. Even though I separate them at mealtime, it's like he's not sure when Finn will be set free so he gulps.

I wonder if Finn's whining when the sun goes down is their being crepuscular and that being when they instinctively hunt for food if an outside feral cat. Memories.

I've wondered this same thing, and I think there's something to it. He probably was very active at night, and he does seem really bored. I have about every interactive toy for him, but he needs to MOVE. I think he really wants to go out and roam - he sits at doors and windows and cries hard. I really hope he will settle into indoor life - I would hate to see him this miserable forever.

Awww Charlie being affectionate and Finn taking it wrong? Anyway it seems like them working themselves out.

Yes, it did seem affectionate this morning. I wonder why Finn is so resistant to receiving any affection from Charlie?

I know you worry about weight gain but some cats eat a lot at meals but also there are grazers. They like a bit here and there through the day.

Finn reminds me of the lions in Africa. They don't know when their next kill will be, so they will gorge until their stomachs are distended and they can barely move. At one point I left a huge bowl of food out for Finn, thinking he could graze on it throughout the day. He ate the WHOLE bowl right then and there - he had to have had a stomach ache with the amount that he put away. Regardless of whether he's just eaten - I could put a second or third bowl of food down, and he'd scarf those down, too. So I feel really badly about the days I'm gone for a long stretch of time; he has to wait til I get home because whatever I laid out in the morning was inhaled before I got out the door.

I don’t know if you leave a bowl of food out for Finn at night but maybe you could see if that satisfies him for now. Comfort food.

I do leave a bowl of food for him when I leave his room at night. He starts crying with urgency about 30 minutes before it's bedtime - I'm now convinced that his evening cries start out as a desire to go outside and prowl, and end up as cries urging me to hurry and put down his last meal. I feed him more than I feed Charlie, but if there's a chance that's still not enough, I certainly want to rectify it. He gets around 6-oz wet food a day and two snacks a day - he likes the Churu and the Greenies. He's 10 lbs. Does that sound sufficient, or is that not enough? Charlie is 16+ lbs and eats about 3.5 oz wet food per day plus his two snacks.

 

[Buffster7]

Ahh, after nearly 5 hours of persistent crying interrupted only by lunch, the little dude finally settled down in my lap. Blissful peace and quiet at last. Going to try to take a cat nap..

 

[Furballsmom]

after nearly 5 hours of persistent crying interrupted only by lunch

Gracious sakes!!

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but have you considered a timed feeder with multiple slots, where you could fill each slot with some kibble, and set the timer for each section. This could help him not gorge, and allow for multiple small meals which could be better for him, and could help you with peace of mind and maybe/hopefully some more sleep?
This is sort of what I was thinking of

There might be something here in the section about Gulpers/Fast Eaters that starts at number 13;

18 Awesome Cat Feeding Tips By Thecatsite Staff Members - TheCatSite

We asked our trusted team members for cat feeding tips and they did not disappoint. Here are 18 tips that offer advice about cat feeding practices. Feeding cats can be challenging at times. Some cats are messy eaters while others are dainty finicky ones. Some felines gulp down their food while...

thecatsite.com

Also, there are slow-feed dishes that are made for cats that gorge/eat too fast - an example would be something like this (its on sale too ) that could help here;

NORTHMATE Catch Interactive Cat Feeder, Purple - Chewy.com

Buy Northmate Catch Interactive Cat Feeder, Purple at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!

www.chewy.com

I copied this from the TCS article Is My Cat Overweight;
The best way to tell if your cat is overweight is by checking the cat. Move your hands along the sides of the body and gently try to feel the ribs. If the cat is within range of its ideal weight, you should be able to easily count the ribs. The ribs should be covered with a layer of fat, but not to an extent that would make it difficult to feel them.

He looks pretty good condition-wise in that photo although of course it's a little difficult to really tell. Here is an adult cat body chart that might help regarding whether he's getting enough/too much food (someone mentioned they liked this version better than some others;

https://www.petmd.com/sites/default/files/nestle_purina_cat_body_condition_chart_crop.jpg

Also, this might help if you haven't seen it yet;

How Much Food Should I Feed My Cat? [Answered] - TheCatSite

Have you ever wondered just how much food you should be feeding your cat? Let's say you know which cat food you want to feed, whether dry, canned, homemade cooked, or raw. How much of it should be made available to your cat on a daily basis? Overfeeding is a constant worry for many cat […]

thecatsite.com

 

[Buffster7]

Hi! Finn is at a perfect weight right now. He was too skinny when he showed up in my yard and starving, but has filled out nicely and I swear he's grown as well. It's Charlie who is overweight. I see that I wrote that Charlie gets 3.5 oz of food per day - that's my inability to calculate right there. He gets about 1.75 cans of food daily which would be what, about 4.5 oz of wet food? Finn, on the other hand, gets about 6.25 oz of wet food daily, little oinker. He's at an ideal weight, I'd like to keep him there.

I don't feed either of them kibble due to Finn's FLUTD and Charlie's weight. I've been looking at a feeder with an ice pack to serve up wet food midday, but hope that the boys will be together all day soon, and am not sure if they'd fight over a feeder that pops open mid-day. At this point even if I got two feeders, one for each, Finn would push Charlie out of the way and eat his, too. I've seen him do it at meal time, which is why I feed them in separate rooms.

Does anyone else feed their cats just 2x daily, who doesn't give kibble? Or is that just too long between meals?

Edit:
PS - Finn finally figured out the hammock. Smitten kitten over here (me).

 

[pearl99]

Does anyone else feed their cats just 2x daily, who doesn't give kibble? Or is that just too long between meals?

If I was feeding wet food only (I feed dry food plus wet food) I would feed 3x per day- the third time at whatever time you can with your school-, or on days that you are home from school/clinicals all day 4 possibly for Finn, since he's younger and more active if you can.