I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

it's possible he just doesn't know how to respond to anything friendly.

That's an interesting thought. I wonder how to teach him? He has learned not to use teeth on me...how to get that to translate to not using teeth, period?

 

[Jcatbird]

Yes. I’ve seen it. Lol I think the lick was affection but Finn still doesn’t feel he owns his place there yet. That photo of him sitting at the computer with you is prescios. The love! You’re his Mom and security. It seems to me he is just trying to protect the only sure thing he knows. You. The second condo is a good idea. Charlie may try to claim it but he can’t be two places at once. I try to get multiples of everything here. Maybe you remember that Kodiak tooth Whistles favorite toy? Kodiak tried to run everyone at times. Wanna be too cat but not. It doesn’t stop her from trying though. Picking on sweet little Whistle. I let her play with it awhile and then when she looked away, I gave it back. I got the dirt look instead of Whistle. Lol I have her another great toy and played with her as Whistle enjoyed his toy. Sometimes you just want to say, “ kitties, please!” Lol I’ve had cats give affection only to be swatted too. They do get over it. Cats forgive very quickly. Thank goodness. I still feel Finn is making progress.
There are gadgets called stud finders but if you have gloss paint they don’t always work well. To find a stud you just knock along the wall. If it sounds hollow, no stud. The sound when you hit a stud is very solid. You might try knocking just to see if you can tell.

 

[Buffster7]

Yes. I’ve seen it. Lol I think the lick was affection but Finn still doesn’t feel he owns his place there yet. That photo of him sitting at the computer with you is prescios. The love! You’re his Mom and security. It seems to me he is just trying to protect the only sure thing he knows. You. The second condo is a good idea. Charlie may try to claim it but he can’t be two places at once. I try to get multiples of everything here. Maybe you remember that Kodiak tooth Whistles favorite toy? Kodiak tried to run everyone at times. Wanna be too cat but not. It doesn’t stop her from trying though. Picking on sweet little Whistle. I let her play with it awhile and then when she looked away, I gave it back. I got the dirt look instead of Whistle. Lol I have her another great toy and played with her as Whistle enjoyed his toy. Sometimes you just want to say, “ kitties, please!” Lol I’ve had cats give affection only to be swatted too. They do get over it. Cats forgive very quickly. Thank goodness. I still feel Finn is making progress.
There are gadgets called stud finders but if you have gloss paint they don’t always work well. To find a stud you just knock along the wall. If it sounds hollow, no stud. The sound when you hit a stud is very solid. You might try knocking just to see if you can tell.

"I got the dirty look instead of Whistle"... The things we do to keep the peace!
I agree, Finn is making progress. Today is his first-ever full day out of his room. I let him out this morning (brave move -I could see that Charlie was struggling to overcome his grumpiness - he is just NOT a morning person..cat) and he's been out all day. Lots of meowing and calling, but he is settling down here and there. Charlie and I are in the hearth room on our own chairs, and he's in the living room on the chaise. This is HUGE progress!!

Last night I was reminded of what a street cat he is/was. I was in my bedroom and heard a huge crash. I went to investigate in the kitchen and my large and tall stainless-steel trash can was over on its side. Finn was dumpster diving! He'd been fed AND had received his evening treat, so it wasn't hunger. You can take the cat out of the streets, but you can't take the street outa that cat, I guess, at least not very quickly. Then today - it's cold and rainy here, so I have the fireplace going. He has obviously never seen a fireplace before. He was terrified of the flames at first. Then cautiously peered from my lap. So when I see how "undomesticated" he is, and how new and weird everything must still be to him, I think he's doing amazing.

I do wonder if he bit Charlie because he thought Charlie was going to attack? But then - the chasing Charlie after he retreated to bite him again. Was he warning Charlie, "Don't you do that again", or is biting the only way he knows how to interact, I wonder? Have you ever had a biter like this?

 

[Buffster7]

The rest of the afternoon in chronological order:



In this one, Charlie had come over and sat himself in front of Finn and licked Finn's head. Finn accepted the licks:


After all that, Finn moved away from Charlie while Charlie has a definite "mission accomplished" air about him:

I REALLY have to stay out of it, but I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut. UGH!! Although it feels like we had a breakthrough, and it feels like Charlie won. I'm fine with that as long as he doesn't abuse his power. What do you guys think of the interaction - dominance struggle?

 

[pearl99]

I've used the stud finder, I sure can't tell by knocking on the wall- my dad always could though, he had the talent, not me. Stud finder is very easy to use. Studs are usually about 16 inches apart on the walls.
With all the days of posts I've read I wonder too if bite was just Finn's reaction outdoors and he hasn't learned much else. Charlie is capable of teaching him some to knock that off.
As for the head licking, it looks affectionate to me when Waffles does it to Moo, but some people have said it could be a dominance thing. It doesn't feel dominant to me, but the cats aren't talking to us about it. Sometimes Moo does not like it at all and will hiss, swat Waffles over it. Then he stops. But it's rare in my household. But my daughter's cats do it to each other a lot and it's friendly. That is something that Charlie did it!!!

 

[Talien]

It's definitely friendly.

 

[Buffster7]

You guys, I think we did it! I think the cats came to an agreement in those posts above - the whole atmosphere feels different here! There is no more competition and stalking - and Charlie is the one who did it!

but some people have said it could be a dominance thing. It doesn't feel dominant to me, but the cats aren't talking to us about it.

I got a chuckle out of that! You know, earlier I thought it was friendly, and then tonight I think it is dominance. I think it can be both, but the last time Charlie did it - you can see in the 3rd vid - he bit Finn kind of in a dominance way. Then Finn jumped up and resisted him, then it turned into a bit of a tussle. I stopped recording because it looked like it might get serious toward the end and I wanted to get some cardboard to separate them if I needed to. Finn retreated into the living room to the chaise. I joined him, but Charlie wasn't done. He jumped up on the chaise and Finn jumped down and lay on the floor. Charlie gave him a minute, then came and sat right in front of him and leaned forward and licked his head - I don't know what that was, but it wasn't a tender or affectionate moment - it was an "understanding". Finn accepted the lick, stayed for a minute and then retreated to the chaise. Charlie rolled over on his back and took a nap! (pictured above) That was the moment "it" happened and was settled, I think!

The rest of the night was SO NICE!! I was able to get some work done around the house without having to supervise them. They even chased each other around a bit, but it was amicable. Finn is still not entirely comfortable, but I think he's submitted and I think Charlie retained his top dog (cat) position. It feels so good to have equilibrium restored in this household! Ahhhhhhhhhh, I'm in heaven!

 

[Buffster7]

I've been clicking everywhere trying to get this vid to play. I hope I didn't accidentally flag it! For some reason it won't play for me?

 

[Talien]

I've been clicking everywhere trying to get this vid to play. I hope I didn't accidentally flag it! For some reason it won't play for me?

Odd, it's a google drive link so it shouldn't be a problem. Are you using something like noscript in your browser?

 

[pearl99]

I've been clicking everywhere trying to get this vid to play. I hope I didn't accidentally flag it! For some reason it won't play for me?

It plays for me...FYI

 

[pearl99]

You guys, I think we did it! I think the cats came to an agreement in those posts above - the whole atmosphere feels different here! There is no more competition and stalking - and Charlie is the one who did it!


I got a chuckle out of that! You know, earlier I thought it was friendly, and then tonight I think it is dominance. I think it can be both, but the last time Charlie did it - you can see in the 3rd vid - he bit Finn kind of in a dominance way. Then Finn jumped up and resisted him, then it turned into a bit of a tussle. I stopped recording because it looked like it might get serious toward the end and I wanted to get some cardboard to separate them if I needed to. Finn retreated into the living room to the chaise. I joined him, but Charlie wasn't done. He jumped up on the chaise and Finn jumped down and lay on the floor. Charlie gave him a minute, then came and sat right in front of him and leaned forward and licked his head - I don't know what that was, but it wasn't a tender or affectionate moment - it was an "understanding". Finn accepted the lick, stayed for a minute and then retreated to the chaise. Charlie rolled over on his back and took a nap! (pictured above) That was the moment "it" happened and was settled, I think!

The rest of the night was SO NICE!! I was able to get some work done around the house without having to supervise them. They even chased each other around a bit, but it was amicable. Finn is still not entirely comfortable, but I think he's submitted and I think Charlie retained his top dog (cat) position. It feels so good to have equilibrium restored in this household! Ahhhhhhhhhh, I'm in heaven!

Whoa!!! Whoa!!! What??? They do work things out. Have discussions by wrestling, cat language.
Not raining on your parade so I'll say this up front- there may still be some tussles and arguments. But it doesn't always mean things are going backward. Like an old married couple who love each other arguing. Finn may still want to be a bit rough.
Mine that still do that on occasion. It's still all good. And they do play stalk and play pounce.
But your post sounds just quite excellent, beyond excellent.

 

[Jcatbird]

It really is a learning thing for Finn. As you noticed, inside is a scary place when you are new to it. Banjo and Whistke adore and defend each other but also have fights at times. When they were separated and then reunited it was like Nanjo didn’t know Whistle. Whistle finall gave her what for and then a vigorous head washing. After that, everything came back to her. They still have brother sister tussles but always lick after. Lol
I did get the video to play but it took four tries. Lost of Banjo and Whistle type washing. Lol Really sweet.

 

[Furballsmom]

I think the cats came to an agreement in those posts above - the whole atmosphere feels different here! There is no more competition and stalking - and Charlie is the one who did it!

YES YES YES!!!!

 

[Jcatbird]

I think it evolving right under your nose. I’ve always believed you could do this and they would do this. I think they are. It’s just hard to see and tolerate when it seems to move slowly but really.... you’ve come a long way babies! Bravo to you all and Charlie is an excellent Finn teacher.

 

[Buffster7]

Okay, I got the vid to play by clicking the top arrow and opening in a new window, don't know why that didn't work last night. So sweet!
Thank you guys for being happy for us! Will see how today goes once I get Finn up.. I thought about letting him sleep with us last night, but figured it had been such a rough day for him that me would welcome the down time on his own, and I wanted to give Charlie lots of one-on-one love after being such a good boy yesterday! Maybe next weekend we'll see how he does during the night.

Now...how long does it sometimes/usually/often take for cats to establish enough of a comfort level around each other that they can be left alone together? I will begin my Level II fieldwork in January and will be working some long days. I'm hoping by then that I can leave them out together and they can be company for each other? What a HUGE relief this would be to my guilty conscience for being gone so much!

 

[pearl99]

It depends on the cats. You'll have to see how things go from here. With mine I would wait till they were getting along the great majority of the time and any incidents were not causing damage to one or both, were not prolonged and they were just fine quickly after. I did short times out of the house like going to the grocery etc. and then lengthened the times out.
Hopefully also Finn will soon forget the outdoor life and the meowing to go out and just bask in his lovely indoor life .

 

[Buffster7]

So far so good today! It's been a mixture of play and establishing boundaries. I've been watching church online while keeping an eye on them; both of them are laying out boundaries with each other, but both of them also show that they want to be friends. Happy cat mom today!

 

[pearl99]

That was some good wrestling in the first video! Then Charlie lays down, your turn Finn! Finn looks more comfortable with the fireplace in the second. Here's to continued success. It's so helpful to read others' experience and what they are doing for if/when I'm in the same situation in the future.

 

[pearl99]

It's definitely friendly.

Now that's scent swapping for sure.

 

[Jcatbird]

Oh my! They actually got playful without crossing the line! I got tickled at Finn looking up during the sermon you were listening to. Maybe Church did them a little good huh? Perhaps the tone got through?

The fireplace scene was just heartwarming. Truly peaceful.