I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[walli]

redirected aggression? maybe the scruffing helped. I wish I could be more help!
He may get the message, every time he attacks Charlie, in the room you go!
see how they are tomorrow and let us know how they are, interested in the scrubbing effects.

You don't want to do it in anger tho, scruff for a few seconds and lift the front legs off the ground if needed but that's it.
see if you notice his demeanor when you do it, it may be what he needs, but really these guys are not
doing to bad, I know it's hard but patience and time is what you need, I absolutely know you will be
successful, it really is going well for the short time. Just need to figure Finn out.
Is a catio or window box out of the question? I know you have school to get through.

 

[walli]

You may want to try the gentle loving scruff when he is howling, not sure but I'm thinking
it worked for me.

 

[Jcatbird]

I’m thinking back to the possibility of Finn having gas/tummy issues. Did he do a loose stool? A stinky poo might make Charlie sniff his feet. That could be objectionable to Finn to be investigated after an upset tummy. Gas can be painful. Charlie seemed to be sympathetic and did not want to be taken from comforting Finn is my guess. In spite of the bite. When cats don’t feel good they often lash out at the closest target because they don’t understand what caused the pain. It’s kind of ,”what bit me?” Even having a flea bite them can cause this. Finn figured it had something to do with Charlie possibly or just lashed out. Charlie knows he didn’t do anything but may sense something is off with Finn. I would just let them try to get through this and observe. Give Finn a sniff test yourself. Lol Is he still having potty trouble? BJ has painful gas at times. I can rub his tummy in a circular motion and he gets relief. If nothing is going on that way then just let them go. It doesn’t sound serious. A nip is not a full fledged fight. Charlie growled when you separated them so he still wants to be with Finn. See if they are just settling into their hierarchy or if Charlie is offering Finn the paw of friendship during a gassey day. Lol I know it seems like a fuss but it may not be that at all. Time and observing.

 

[Catzmeow]

Shadow jumps on my little dog Bella and does that. It is upsetting and I don't know why it is. She is definitely a timid little girl but when he makes her yelp I can't allow it. She came from about 4 years at a puppy mill and I can't let her be hurt here too

 

[Catzmeow]

Sorry to talk too much about this but is he trying to hump her? There are both fixed. My one dog does this every once in a while.

 

[Buffster7]

Gracious sakes - kids!! Behave yourselves!!

I don't know if this is really like a pair of bratty teens, but it sort of sounds like it? Too much energy?

That would be one bratty teen. Charlie is 8+ years old. But yes, I think Finn is going stir crazy indoors. I had already tried to expend some of his energy with a play session including wand and his ripple rug.

I just didn't know what to make of his biting Charlie; is he trying to steal dominance? Then I thought maybe Finn was just trying to play and hasn't learned not to use teeth, but surely that's not him trying to play if Charlie is crying and running away? After that, Charle would hiss at Finn and move away whenever Finn looked like he was going to start walking toward Charlie, so it sure wasn't play for him.
But then Charlie growling at me and crying at Finn's door. What on earth?

 

[Furballsmom]

Charlie was overamped I think that's where the growling came from, but crying at Finn's door?

Maybe they need to work this out, as long as there's no actual blood drawn?

 

[Buffster7]

Shadow jumps on my little dog Bella and does that. It is upsetting and I don't know why it is. She is definitely a timid little girl but when he makes her yelp I can't allow it. She came from about 4 years at a puppy mill and I can't let her be hurt here too

Sorry to talk too much about this but is he trying to hump her? There are both fixed. My one dog does this every once in a while.

How do you stop it when it happens? Is Shadow otherwise aggressive or dominant - I cannot remember the details?
I was just thinking tonight before it happened what a miracle it is that Charlie has adjusted so beautifully to Finn's presence here. Charlie was such a bully to my dog and apparently in his previous home and that is why they 'kicked him out'. I see that 'old man' in him now and then - but the way he has been these past few days has just astounded me.
No humping as they are both males. Just biting out of nowhere. But Finn used to bite me too, when he moved in.

 

[Buffster7]

Charlie was overamped I think that's where the growling came from, but crying at Finn's door?

Maybe they need to work this out, as long as there's no actual blood drawn?

I suspect so. I have really been staying out of it - these past few days when they've been chasing each other around the house, I've just turned my back and not even watched. I've been able to let them do their own thing without supervising them (keeping an ear out still). But tonight I was SO mad. I put Finn back in his room so *I* could cool down. Now I just hope I didn't set them back by interfering.

 

[Furballsmom]

Now I just hope I didn't set them back by interfering

Likely not, I think you all will be ok

 

[Catzmeow]

Shadow doesn't really hump her just jumps on her back and bites her. He doesn't do that to the boys. Any of course Bella's fearful temperament leaves her open to being abused more. Just now Shadow was up on a chair above her and swatted at her sending her running. The boys would have barked and sent Shadow off. I have had dogs and cats together before and didn't notice such a difference.

 

[Buffster7]

Oh, one more question. Should I try a night of Finn sleeping with us?

Shadow doesn't really hump her just jumps on her back and bites her. He doesn't do that to the boys. Any of course Bella's fearful temperament leaves her open to being abused more. Just now Shadow was up on a chair above her and swatted at her sending her running. The boys would have barked and sent Shadow off. I have had dogs and cats together before and didn't notice such a difference.

Interesting! My dog was terrified of Charlie, too, and he took full advantage like Shadow. I wonder if the bully in these cats power-trips with those who are easily cowed, like Bella. I just read an article that says the more we interrupt, the more aggressive we make the cat toward its target. But how do you allow a cat to continue to bully an already previously abused dog? I get it, I get the struggle. I found that Jackson Galaxy's Bully remedy really helped Charlie not bully my Zoe quite as much. I don't know how the saying "It's a dog-eat-dog world" came into being, but it's a lot more accurate with cats..

 

[Catzmeow]

Thanks, I think that would be worth a try if I can get it in Canada

 

[Catzmeow]

Omg it is $75 here on amazon.

 

[pearl99]

Another quick question for you guys.
The cats have been doing really well. This would be day 5 of no tussles. Finn has been out since I got home (almost 3 hours).
He still yowls and meows a LOT. Tonight he started doing it incessantly again with an urgency that worried Charlie. Charlie came to check on him then actually seemed to try to get him interested in his toys by tapping one of Finn's toys then going and laying down a ways away.

I pressed a button on another interactive toy, And Finn came over to Charlie and they sniffed each other; Charlie was sniffing Finn's feet, And Finn was sniffing the top of Charlie's head. Charlie curled a paw underneath of him to relax, and I was actually hopeful that Finn would actually settle down next to him. Instead, he pounced on top of Charlie and bit him; Charlie yelped and cried and ran away.

I was SO MAD - I actually scruffed Finn and took him back to his room. They were making such progress and it was so unnecessary. When I emerged from Finn's room, I found Charlie licking the area where Finn bit him. I picked him up and carried him back to my room to love him up, but he started growling. When I put him down, he ran back to Finn's door and started crying at Finn's door. So I let Finn back out and loved them both up. Can someone decipher all this for me? Finn's biting Charlie out of the blue when Charlie was in a really compromised position, then Charlie growling at me when I picked him up and running back to Finn's room crying at the door??

I know I'm not supposed to interfere and I know it can make it worse when I do. Since then, Finn has been crying inconsolably. He also charged Charlie once more, but other than that they've passed in the hallway several times without incident.

Could it be play with Finn? No wound, scratches on Charlie, correct? Maybe Finn is a rough player sometimes and doesn't know limits. Which Charlie may teach him. Or Finn is trying to take over as "boss." Charlie sounded calm about it, but did not want to be picked up at all. Coincidence something like that happened with my two this morning. It's always Waffles getting too intense with Mooshoo. She hisses, swats and growls at him. Over the last 16 months Waffles has learned to stop when she does that. Before, Moo would also run away, which is fine- now she mostly stays put.
They are always fine after. This evening they were close to each other on the foot of the recliner even touching a little bit.
Wish I had knowledge about the hours of meowing! I'm no help there.

 

[pearl99]

Then I thought maybe Finn was just trying to play and hasn't learned not to use teeth, but surely that's not him trying to play if Charlie is crying and running away? After that, Charle would hiss at Finn and move away whenever Finn looked like he was going to start walking toward Charlie, so it sure wasn't play for him.
But then Charlie growling at me and crying at Finn's door. What on earth?

To me Charlie crying and running away is "enough! Don't like that!" As in siblings playing too rough. Finn not knowing it's too rough?? Unless he's wanting to boss Charlie around a bit.
Charlie growling= "don't pick me up." Crying= want my buddy?

 

[rubysmama]

Finn has really put you on a roller coaster, hasn't he. Not sure if I've posted this before or not, but here's a TCS article that might be helpful: Why Do Cats Attack?

 

[Buffster7]

Omg it is $75 here on amazon.

What about Bach's Vine Flower Essence (or worded something like that)? Can you get Bach's Rescue Remedy there? They make different flower essences and it's my understanding that Vine is one that works very well for bullying behavior. I currently use Chicory and Holly on the napes of their necks and I do really think it's helping. Last time I spoke with a rep, they recommended Vine, so I'll try that next and see if I can replace the Chicory and Holly with the Vine. I know that Jackson Galaxy's version has vine in it, as well. I just didn't know if perhaps you could obtain the Bach's there any cheaper.

If not, I could order and send to you, but with the exchange rate I don't know that it would be any cheaper for you? Would it? It's around $25 USD here, I believe.

 

[Buffster7]

Could it be play with Finn? No wound, scratches on Charlie, correct? Maybe Finn is a rough player sometimes and doesn't know limits.

To me Charlie crying and running away is "enough! Don't like that!" As in siblings playing too rough. Finn not knowing it's too rough?? Unless he's wanting to boss Charlie around a bit.
Charlie growling= "don't pick me up." Crying= want my buddy?

I cannot figure it out at all, but the running to his door and crying definitely seemed like a "That was Mom's doing, I still want you out!" Charlie, to me, seems to have a bit of a sense of what Finn "needs" - like last night when Finn was distraught and he got up and touched a toy of Finn's and then laid down a little ways away. That got Finn's attention and he stopped crying and went to his toy. There are other times I go to touch Charlie and I get the feeling that he doesn't really want me to touch him right then - sometimes I've wondered if he knows something I don't.

I just can't figure out if Finn's "attacks" are playing or still establishing a dominance thing. Or I guess there's a possibility that something happened earlier that I didn't see, And Finn was giving Charlie "paybacks". I've noticed that if Charlie tries to intimidate Finn, Finn will usually give him 'paybacks' when he gets an opportunity.

 

[Buffster7]

Here is a piece of video I pulled off my monitor that happened later last night. The cats were both waiting for me to exit my room. Check out the attitude Finn gives Charlie when he walks by - what is that? I mean, it's funny - I laughed when I saw it - but what does that interaction say to you?