I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[pearl99]

Here is a piece of video I pulled off my monitor that happened later last night. The cats were both waiting for me to exit my room. Check out the attitude Finn gives Charlie when he walks by - what is that? I mean, it's funny - I laughed when I saw it - but what does that interaction say to you?

"Struttin' my stuff"

 

[Catzmeow]

What about Bach's Vine Flower Essence.

Thanks for the suggestions. I found a store that carries Bach's so I will give it a try but I won't be able to get there until at least tomorrow. Is just the Vine enough or do you suggest one of the others you use as well? It seems that Shadow has decided that bedtime is free for all time so I wonder if I sprayed some on the bed also. It would be nice if he would be able to join us instead of being removed from the room each night.

 

[Jcatbird]

It just looks like “the look” to me. Just meaning I don’t want interaction right this minute. Could be that Charlie is winning the dominance battle in spite of all attempts by Finn.

 

[Buffster7]

It just looks like “the look” to me. Just meaning I don’t want interaction right this minute. Could be that Charlie is winning the dominance battle in spite of all attempts by Finn.

Well, I feel badly that I scruffed him last night. I don't want my interference to change the natural outcome, necessarily. But man, Charlie has been so sweet and hungry for a friend, letting Finn use his litter box, even letting Finn take food off his plate, and then Finn did that attack thing. Still, I can't rule out that Charlie pulled a fast one when I wasn't looking And Finn was just paying him back. Either way, I have GOT to let them work it out. However, tonight was a good night with no tussling. Finn did jump Charlie a couple times, but Charlie just hissed and sidestepped him and they were fine. Do you think it's possible that they come to a mutual respect without having to establish a dominant one, or is that unheard of in the cat world? I can't for the life of me figure out which one is coming out ahead.

 

[Buffster7]

Thanks for the suggestions. I found a store that carries Bach's so I will give it a try but I won't be able to get there until at least tomorrow. Is just the Vine enough or do you suggest one of the others you use as well? It seems that Shadow has decided that bedtime is free for all time so I wonder if I sprayed some on the bed also. It would be nice if he would be able to join us instead of being removed from the room each night.

Well, the bottles are quite small (about the size of a middle finger) and they aren't cheap, so spraying it on the bed may not be feasible. I have always put it in their food in the past. Now I'm putting it directly on their skin and rubbing it in, and really I do think it is helping. They say you can rub it on their paws for absorption, or on their ears. I just apply it to the nape of their neck like flea meds.
Vine is what the rep recommended. I had been using both Holly and Chicory with success, but Jackson Galaxy's Bully Remedy has Vine in it, so I ordered Bach's Vine and that just arrived today. Here's a list that will tell you what each essence does. I would just order Vine and see if he responds to that before spending much money:
Dr Bach's system of 38 flower remedies
Do you think he would do a calming collar just at night when you could supervise him? The Relaxivet makes a diffuser also, like Feliway. I happened to implement them all around the same time, so I'm not sure which one is working most, maybe a combination. But things have been very peaceful since starting the Bach's on the skin; I would start there. I hope they help Shadow - it's stressful when they aren't getting along! I found myself dreading coming home after clinicals - what a relief to have some peace now.

 

[Buffster7]

"Struttin' my stuff"

Haha! I was dubbing it, "Ya want a piece of this? No? Didn't think so."

 

[Jcatbird]

I do think they will form mutual respect. I don’t know if that will mean no one is dominant. It won’t really matter as long as there is peace and contentment among all. Position can change over the years too. I still think the tussles are working them to where they need to be. Don’t kick yourself about the scruffing. I really don’t think getting tired of the stress is going to change all the work you have done. The cats know you are human. From my point of view ( a distance! Lol) they are bonded in spite of being ticked off at times. Time is still needed but you have gained so much ground since the days of Finn hopping the door barrier. I know you , and probably Catzmeow get tired of hearing me say that time is the key to teaching them, but it really is. I wish you could both see the progress from my vantage point. I know there are still issues to be worked through but I remember the first posts! I hope the Vine works for Shadow too. The cats do tend to go after the ones that don’t put them in their place if they are coming from a world where survival demands that. It’s a learning curve.

As long as all is well, I do love seeing a sassy cattitude!

 

[Furballsmom]

, tonight was a good night with no tussling

Yay!! I'm so glad!!

 

[pearl99]

Finn did jump Charlie a couple times, but Charlie just hissed and sidestepped him and they were fine. Do you think it's possible that they come to a mutual respect without having to establish a dominant one, or is that unheard of in the cat world? I can't for the life of me figure out which one is coming out ahead.

I've heard that cats can either have a dominant one, or coexist on the same level and just respect each other. It can take quite awhile for them to come to their understanding, be a work in progress.
Kind of cool that all Charlie had to do was hiss a little.
We had an altercation this morning the likes of hasn't happened for about a year, when I went to check it out closer I must have had scary vibes because Waffles (the aggressor who started it) ran to the basement, so I closed the door for a break for them, and darned if Moo didn't come running and meowing at the door insisting I let Waffles out...they are funny.

 

[Catzmeow]

Well, the bottles are quite small (about the size of a middle finger) and they aren't cheap, so spraying it on the bed may not be feasible. I have always put it in their food in the past. Now I'm putting it directly on their skin and rubbing it in, and really I do think it is helping. They say you can rub it on their paws for absorption, or on their ears. I just apply it to the nape of their neck like flea meds.
Vine is what the rep recommended. I had been using both Holly and Chicory with success, but Jackson Galaxy's Bully Remedy has Vine in it, so I ordered Bach's Vine and that just arrived today. Here's a list that will tell you what each essence does. I would just order Vine and see if he responds to that before spending much money:
Dr Bach's system of 38 flower remedies
Do you think he would do a calming collar just at night when you could supervise him? The Relaxivet makes a diffuser also, like Feliway. I happened to implement them all around the same time, so I'm not sure which one is working most, maybe a combination. But things have been very peaceful since starting the Bach's on the skin; I would start there. I hope they help Shadow - it's stressful when they aren't getting along! I found myself dreading coming home after clinicals - what a relief to have some peace now.

Collar is a no as we tried a regular one a while back. He hated it and when I removed it he took it away to kill it. Lol!

 

[Talien]

Here is a piece of video I pulled off my monitor that happened later last night. The cats were both waiting for me to exit my room. Check out the attitude Finn gives Charlie when he walks by - what is that? I mean, it's funny - I laughed when I saw it - but what does that interaction say to you?

Charlie watches Finn, Finn stares at Charlie as he walks past, Charlie looks away.

"Hey, what's up?"

"What are you lookin at?"

"Pssh, whatever noob."

 

[Buffster7]

I do think they will form mutual respect. I don’t know if that will mean no one is dominant. It won’t really matter as long as there is peace and contentment among all. Position can change over the years too. I still think the tussles are working them to where they need to be. Don’t kick yourself about the scruffing. I really don’t think getting tired of the stress is going to change all the work you have done. The cats know you are human. From my point of view ( a distance! Lol) they are bonded in spite of being ticked off at times. Time is still needed but you have gained so much ground since the days of Finn hopping the door barrier. I know you , and probably Catzmeow get tired of hearing me say that time is the key to teaching them, but it really is. I wish you could both see the progress from my vantage point. I know there are still issues to be worked through but I remember the first posts! I hope the Vine works for Shadow too. The cats do tend to go after the ones that don’t put them in their place if they are coming from a world where survival demands that. It’s a learning curve.

As long as all is well, I do love seeing a sassy cattitude!

Jcatbird, your posts always settle me down. Thank you.
I think things will continue to improve if I can provide Finn with some stimulation - he is so bored. Last night I had several lengthy play sessions with him, and yet he still prowled and howled. I need something that won't create conflict between him and Charlie...thinking along the lines of a kitty superhighway - the kind that I can't afford right now, but I can get started on piece by piece. Question is - in the here an now, I can either buy a small portion for the wall, or I can buy Finn another kitty condo since Charlie usurped the one I bought for Finn. I wonder which would be more beneficial?

 

[rubysmama]

Question is - in the here an now, I can either buy a small portion for the wall, or I can buy Finn another kitty condo since Charlie usurped the one I bought for Finn. I wonder which would be more beneficial?

Keeping in mind I've never had more than one cat at a time (and sometimes reading your posts I wonder about getting a second cat, and other times I think "if it ain't broke ... LOL) but I'm pretty sure I've read that it's good to have 2 of everything, so that each cat has its own item. So I'd vote for the 2nd cat condo. But definitely wait and see what the multi-cat cat parents think.

 

[Talien]

Jcatbird, your posts always settle me down. Thank you.
I think things will continue to improve if I can provide Finn with some stimulation - he is so bored. Last night I had several lengthy play sessions with him, and yet he still prowled and howled. I need something that won't create conflict between him and Charlie...thinking along the lines of a kitty superhighway - the kind that I can't afford right now, but I can get started on piece by piece. Question is - in the here an now, I can either buy a small portion for the wall, or I can buy Finn another kitty condo since Charlie usurped the one I bought for Finn. I wonder which would be more beneficial?

You don't have to buy the premade upholstered cat platforms, you can DIY it with some cheaper shelves from a hardware store and zippered pillowcases. Put one of the shelves inside a pillowcase and add cotton batting, old towels, even a pillow that's gone flat ontop of the shelf then zip it up then put it on the brackets and you have a Cat shelf. Repeat that several times and you've got your Cat highway.

Or if you want something even more affordable you can staple carpet scraps to the shelves.

 

[pearl99]

Jcatbird, your posts always settle me down. Thank you.
I think things will continue to improve if I can provide Finn with some stimulation - he is so bored. Last night I had several lengthy play sessions with him, and yet he still prowled and howled. I need something that won't create conflict between him and Charlie...thinking along the lines of a kitty superhighway - the kind that I can't afford right now, but I can get started on piece by piece. Question is - in the here an now, I can either buy a small portion for the wall, or I can buy Finn another kitty condo since Charlie usurped the one I bought for Finn. I wonder which would be more beneficial?

Having multple cats I think more than one kitty condo would be fine. Charlie may then claim the new one for his, but that would be fine. I'd space them a distance apart so one it's own territory and the other it's own territory. What I have done with mine anyway.
And with a kitty highway I've also done wall shelves cheaper by getting a shelf and wall brackets from Home Depot and putting peel and stick carpet squares on them. I made sure the brackets were in wall studs so they wouldn't just fall off the wall.

 

[Wab]

It can take some time to get the cat adjusted to inside living and then socialized so don't count on it being quick. I had one take a solid year but then another did really well in 3 months.

I've just rescued (hijacked almost) a stray.

It's only been two weeks and I was thinking I've made a mistake, so it's good to know - even if it takes a year - that they can adjust.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you guys so much for your responses. Sounds like kitty condo it is. I have two already, but one is in Finn's room and it's not as nice/large/tall as the one that Charlie has taken ownership of. If I'm going to put anything on my walls, I want it to be aesthetically pleasing and not an eyesore, so I may need to wait until I can "do it right" - since I'm not handy at all and wouldn't have the first clue on how to find a stud, let alone make it pretty. As a side note, it's been really hard to type this as Finn keeps trying to rest his paws on my hand while I'm typing:

 

[Buffster7]

I've just rescued (hijacked almost) a stray.

It's only been two weeks and I was thinking I've made a mistake, so it's good to know - even if it takes a year - that they can adjust.

I am so glad that you posted and quoted Shadowsrescue, because I don't think I saw that post; I'm going to go back and find it, thanks Wab! [edit to add: just realized I had seen it, but it was from July. I thought perhaps it was a recent post I had missed. ) And...brace yourself, lol. I'm pretty new to cats in general, but this is the first time I've ever tried this. And I've thought to myself more than a couple times, "Never again!" But...there is just something inside that tells me that this is all going to be worth it, to hang in there. I'm pretty tightly wound, though - it may not be as stressful for you! And I have learned that there's no love like love given from an animal that's been rescued. There is definitely something different about the love they show.

 

[Buffster7]

Guys, interpretation needed again, please? I was on the phone just now, sitting on the chaise with Finn. Charlie wanted to join us, and jumped up with us. He started licking the top of Finn's head(!!)! So naturally Finn bites him on the chest and chases him away. Charlie jumped down and retreated. I was on a call, so I couldn't give them appropriate "good boys" when the licking occurred to disarm the uncertainty.
I joined Charlie on the ground and stroked him and whispered "good boy". Finn came after Charlie and bit him again - Charlie retreated to his perch. I'm wondering if Charlie jumping up and licking Finn's head was truly a loving move, or if it was a bait-and-switch before he pounced Finn for being on "his" chaise with me? Is it possible it could have been genuine? And WHY won't Finn warm up to Charlie? Why the bite and then follow - have you guys seen any of yours respond that way?

 

[Talien]

Guys, interpretation needed again, please? I was on the phone just now, sitting on the chaise with Finn. Charlie wanted to join us, and jumped up with us. He started licking the top of Finn's head(!!)! So naturally Finn bites him on the chest and chases him away. Charlie jumped down and retreated. I was on a call, so I couldn't give them appropriate "good boys" when the licking occurred to disarm the uncertainty.
I joined Charlie on the ground and stroked him and whispered "good boy". Finn came after Charlie and bit him again - Charlie retreated to his perch. I'm wondering if Charlie jumping up and licking Finn's head was truly a loving move, or if it was a bait-and-switch before he pounced Finn for being on "his" chaise with me? Is it possible it could have been genuine? And WHY won't Finn warm up to Charlie? Why the bite and then follow - have you guys seen any of yours respond that way?

I've never known a lick be anything other than friendly. If I had to guess, given what you've said your neightbors had told you about Finn frequently being picked on by other Cats, it's possible he just doesn't know how to respond to anything friendly.