Andy And The Feral Cat Shelter

[white shadow]

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It's good on all counts that she's done.

Just how will you manage pain control for her ?
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[Q2U]

We just plan on keeping her calm, clean, watered and fed white shadow .

 

[Norachan]

That looks like a pretty comfy cage to recuperate in. I'm glad to hear she wasn't pregnant. Time to relax and enjoy your old age Mama Midnight.

I've had my vet give feral cats an injection of long lasting antibiotic on several occasions. I guess it's the same as the one they use in the US. I have the vet records here, but my knowledge of medical kanji is quite limited. It just says "antibiotic" and then a brand name I can't read. Anyway, I've never had any problems with it.

None of the cats spayed or neutered had pain meds other than the original anesthetic. Does your vet always give pain meds white shadow ?

Our vet has only ever given pain meds after dental extractions or for broken bones. I've heard pain medication is quite difficult to get right in cats, so maybe that's why vets don't give it for spays and neuter surgeries.

 

[white shadow]

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I don't know where to start on this - I'm almost beside myself.

Norachan , yes, it's standard operating procedure to provide post-surgery pain control - the type/amount/duration is always 'tailored' to the animal/surgery type/surgery detail/etc etc.

Ovariohysterectomy is an invasive abdominal surgery that causes excruciating pain - the pain is prevented during the surgery with pain meds, but the effect of these wears off gradually. It's imperative that there is a post-operative pain relief plan in place. The results of not controlling this pain could be devastating for the cat and, I'd say beyond upsetting for the caretaker who will witness it.

The lack of adequate pain control has been shown to prolong/delay healing and recovery time.

And, you may have a cat who becomes inappetent.

Bringing pain under control is much more difficult than preventing it from starting/being felt in the first place. So - the sooner you can arrange for this, the better.

She's had the Convenia - having that 'on board' now prevents the use of any NSAID (which could have been an easy 'fix' as it could have been slipped into the food). Convenia is contraindicated with any NSAID - so, whatever else, don't allow her to have any of those (Metacam/Onsior/etc).

There is (as I told you in your other thread) a long-acting injectible opiod, buprenorphine, which provides ~3 days of pain control - this may be the only option for you now.

Please contact the Vet and arrange for something here.

Frankly, it's mind-bending from an ethical perspective that the cat was allowed to leave the clinic without any consideration/provision of pain control.

I mean, this is just completely unacceptable.

If you want references

Cats suffering postoperative pain not recognised, says vet​

and

Spay/neuter surgery pricing includes 3 days of take-home pain medication for dogs. Cats will receive a pain injection that lasts for 24 hours and you can opt for a second pain injection that will last for 72 hours for $10.00. (We recommend this for invasive surgeries that include spay, hernia repair or cryptorchid.)
Cat or Dog Spay/Neuter Services | Humane Society of Charlotte​

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[shadowsrescue]

Of all the neuters I have been through with my feral cats, there has only been an injection given after the neuter. I have never been given any supplemental pain medication. I trap, get neutered and release the very next morning.

I assume a spay is different and more painful, but maybe a pain medication injection was given that lasts a few days.

 

[Norachan]

Wow, I've never been offered or charged for any extra pain medication. Not with the TNR cats or the pet cats I've had spayed or neutered. That's over 40 cats altogether, with 3 different vets.



All I was ever told to do was to keep them indoors somewhere warm and quiet for at least 24 hours.

Let me check with other people I know in Japan. I'm pretty sure that's standard, although of course I see why giving pain medication would be better.

 

[shadowsrescue]

That's the same with me. I have never been offered extra take home medicine. I am given the same instructions. Keep them in a quiet, warm environment. Males can be released the next morning.

I think this is pretty much the standard at the Low Cost spay/neuter clinics around here.

 

[Q2U]

...Frankly, it's mind-bending from an ethical perspective that the cat was allowed to leave the clinic without any consideration/provision of pain control...I mean, this is just completely unacceptable...

We've spayed 3 females (and neutered 4 males) from this colony at 2 different clinics; never have the veterinary doctors, or staff, mentioned post-spay pain control. I spoke with the Midnight's vet twice prior to her procedure and I told him "...whatever she needs, please do it for her...". I believe I clearly communicated that, regarding Midnight's care, cost was not an issue. Feeding, trapping and neutering this colony has cost us a lot of money over the past 8-months; it's been a lot of work, and has caused us significant stress and worry and frankly I don't appreciate the rebuke. I didn't go to veterinary school, so I have to rely on those who did...and those who did failed to address any post-spay pain medication. In the future I will most certainly press the vet regarding post-spay pain medication -- but as for Midnight -- she has a fine appetite and she's staying right where she -- as she is -- until it's time for her to be released. And Mrs. Q and I are going to try not to be gravely wounded by Midnight while she is in our care.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Q2U you and Mrs. Q are doing a wonderful wonderful wonderful thing for these cats. It is hard work, lots of effort and of course $$. I have so enjoyed reading your adventures. Keep up the great work!

 

[Lalexa67]

I am thoroughly enjoying your journey! It is truly amazing the way your family is helping this feral colony! Thank you for sharing your journey - I am learning so much!!

 

[Lalexa67]

I am thoroughly enjoying your journey! It is truly amazing the way your family is helping this feral colony! Thank you for sharing your journey - I am learning so much!!

And you! Your love and caring of this colony is incredible! You are an inspiration! A great role model for others. Please continue to share.

 

[white shadow]

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... frankly I don't appreciate the rebuke

I should have made that commentary clearer........it was NOT directed to/at you...IT was intended to reflect my opinion of the professionals on whom you depended: the Veterinarian who released the cat, seemingly without any regard for what the cat might reasonably be expected to experience afterwards.

Now, I'll post this much immediately - as that clarity should have been part of my original post and I apologize that it was not.

And, it saddens me that you bore the brunt of that - I feel badly about it and I am truly sorry that I wasn't clearer.

(There is more to be said, and I'll put that together.)
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[white shadow]

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Norachan - I have no idea of protocols in Japan, so I'll have to leave it to you to pursue/inquire about whatever norms are current there.

That said, you should also look into the veterinary protocols for ovariohysterectomy in 'pet cats' there...I can't imagine that they are returned without pain management in place.

I suspect that you would accept Alley Cat Allies as a recognized source of reliable information on practices to be employed by TNR programs (they call themselves "the leading experts on Trap-Neuter-Return"). Among the resources offered/available from them is this: How to Help Community Cats: A Step-by-Step Guide to Trap-Neuter Return
And, from that page is this:

Alley Cat Allies strongly recommends that all cats being spayed or neutered receive pain medication unless there is a medical reason not to.​

Hope that helps.
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[Q2U]

You may have seen Midnight chase away a racoon, and scare her kittens away, well Senora Midnight is no pushover. Midnight went after Mrs. Q last night when her water was being changed. To protect us from Ms. SheDevil I tried to make a removable barrier which might protect us when we did maintenance...

This idea was borrowed from our Tomahawk Live Trap “trap divider fork” which is a MUST HAVE accessory IMO...

 

[white shadow]

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Q2U I promised to wrap up my thoughts......

First, looking back on your reply, this part:

"but as for Midnight -- she has a fine appetite and she's staying right where she -- as she is -- "​

All I can say in response is that I can only hope that you'll watch her carefully for signs of pain (and that you can recognize those) and, obviously get her rescue analgesia as appropriate. The "ordinary" pain control used in surgery wears off within 24 hours, and it's inconceivable that she will not experience pain after that.

All the tech and the gadgets are helpful.....but, they must not obfuscate the need for humane care and custody.

Notwithstanding that not all Vets are trained in/have experience with TNR protocols, and as I mentioned to Norachan earlier, surely the fact that 'pet cats' are provided with post-surgical pain management would lead to the obvious question of why on earth the Vets you've used haven't automatically (even) brought it up...? Perhaps there's a view that these are somehow '2nd class cats'? Yes, I know you made it clear about 'anything they needed'......next time, yes, insist.

I have heard of situations where post-spay pain control was offered as 'an option', but that was years ago. P̶e̶r̶h̶a̶p̶s̶Obviously there are those who are less than au courant in their practice of vet med.

And, about the "cost" of all you've done, yes, to be expected, there are costs - the financial ones can be moderate but, for those in rescue who are driven passionately by their care and devotion to the welfare of these little ones, the emotional costs and tolls are of greater significance. It's inherent in this work.

Just saw your update and the 'near miss' with the water change. Alley Cat Allies' site has a list of pointers - which includes the use of a divider - which is helpful: Post-Surgery Care

Hope that covers off the 'loose ends'.
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[Norachan]

Notwithstanding that not all Vets are trained in/have experience with TNR protocols, and as I mentioned to Norachan earlier, surely the fact that 'pet cats' are provided with post-surgical pain management would lead to the obvious question of why on earth the Vets you've used haven't automatically (even) brought it up...? Perhaps there's a view that these are somehow '2nd class cats'? Yes, I know you made it clear about 'anything they needed'......next time, yes, insist.

Sorry, my post wasn't clear. I've never been offered pain medication for any of the cats I've had spayed or neutered, pet or feral. One of my FIV positive rescues had to have a mouth full of rotten teeth removed at the same time as being spayed. She was on pain meds and antibiotics for 5 day.

The vet always talks to me about how much each cat can be handled and suggests a long lasting antibiotic for the very feral ones or antibiotics to add to food for those that can be kept crated/indoors for a longer amount of time. I never get the impression that he sees feral cats as 2nd class. He's a very sensitive man where any animal is concerned. He's donated sacks of food to feed my feral cats, given me bandages, eye drops, creams, antibiotics for free, always gives me a discount on treatment my feral cats need.

A person I know who has been doing rescue and TNR for many years with the help of a veterinary hospital told me that none of the cats were given extra pain meds for straightforward spays/neuters. The hospital keeps all cats for 48 hours observation, but that's all.

Having said that, Japan's attitude to pain management is quite different to that of other countries. Most women here have to give birth "naturally", without any pain management at all. And they wonder why the birthrate is falling.

Q2U I admire your ingenuity. What did you make that divider out of? Keep doing what you're doing. It's nice to see these cats being cared for so carefully.

 

[Q2U]

...What did you make that divider out of?...

1/2" (one-half inch) PVC pipe and 1/2" pipe fittings which I purchased at my local home center; it was very inexpensive.

 

[Norachan]

That's a great idea.

How's Midnight doing today? Hope she's eating well and coping with being crated.

 

[Lalexa67]

How is everyone in the colony? Have you found the latest litter?

 

[Q2U]

...How's Midnight doing today? Hope she's eating well and coping with being crated...

Midnight is doing great! She's eating 2 bowls of food and drinking 1 bowl of water each day. The un-printed newsprint paper (24"x36") we're using in the bottom of her recovery cage is working great. We slide it out, fold it over, and throw it in the trash...then we slid new clean paper in. It is keeping her cage super clean. There is no sign of blood on the paper. So far, so good.