Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

[calicosrspecial]

Hi C calicosrspecial ! I've just posted four new videos of the cats single gate interactions. Thank you in advance for your thoughts! I don't think they uploaded in order but they are labelled 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Here is the link! Hawthorne & Florence - Introductions Single Gate March 2021

A couple of quick notes - videos 7 and 8 were supposed to be one video but I accidentally hit the 'stop button' in-between. The part that was missed was Hawthorne swatting my leg when I approached the gate. I think you said that could be because he is feeling insecure. He sometimes will follow me when I'm going back into Florence's room and try to swat me when I open the gate. He's a bit testy about that.

Second note is that generally, even after all hissing/growling etc, the cats recover very quickly. I would say Florence recovers the fastest (like, instantaneous) and Hawthorne sometimes paces around a bit or hides for a second in the bathroom but is often back to normal very quickly too.

And I know I'm still throwing the treats sometimes instead of placing them, hahaha. I'm trying to keep them from getting too close.

Anyways, hopefully these make for some enlightening watching.

Hi,

Let's take a look.

Video 5 - My goodness is she ADORABLE!!! I LOVE that her tail is straight up when she goes into the room at first. Yes, he did come charging. BUT she did really well. But he did get distracted. Which is great. Body language looks good though. We could leave the door open and use some words to reassure etc. And let's see how they do. So, he did come charging a bit more than I would like. BUT the body language looked good, her reaction was good, he was distracted. So overall, I say pretty good. Try to use words to get him to look up to you etc. Reassure him as well.

Video 6 - I LOVE how he came out this time. This is PERFECT!! My goodness is he adorable!! I love how she is finished looks at him, he sees her and choses food over her. Then she moves quickly to the gate and he see her and still chooses food. I thought that would be where he would charge and he didn't. YES!!! Good job Hawthorne!! This video IS FANTASTIC!!! Body language was terrific. AND there were a few times it could have gone wrong and it didn't.

Video 7 - So he looks good then she comes and hisses and he takes it a bit hard. :/ He didn't respond aggressively which is great. But it shows he is feeling a little insecure still. Not at all surprising though.

Video 8 - I LOVE he has his back to her. A good sign of trust. He looks at her then looks back to you. Awesome!! I would have thought he would have gone for her. He didn't, awesome!! Her body language looks great. She is not really afraid of him. He is doing great. AND then she comes to the gate and he has the treat. Ok, he finishes the treat and now we have a stand off. Here just reassure them. "It's ok" or something like that. In this situation if we get one (preferably Hawthorne) to look away it is a big win. PERFECT. You give a treat and she turns nd goes for it showing Hawthorne she prefers a treat or a fight. Perfect!! His body language then look a little aggressive but then he goes for the treat. Yes!!! A win there. Then he turns his back on her. Something they would never do if they really felt threatened. Then he goes back for the other treat, then gets a bit aggressive for a moment then you do a great job distracting. Then he is looking for her. But he looks away and you give a treat and he is distracted. Great. So a lot of positives. His body language two times were a little disappointing but what happened after was positive.

"The part that was missed was Hawthorne swatting my leg when I approached the gate. I think you said that could be because he is feeling insecure. He sometimes will follow me when I'm going back into Florence's room and try to swat me when I open the gate. He's a bit testy about that." - I WISH I could have seen that. To determine how "aggressive" it was. Judging by how video 8 started it must not have been that aggressive. He could be trying to keep you with him.

"Second note is that generally, even after all hissing/growling etc, the cats recover very quickly. I would say Florence recovers the fastest (like, instantaneous) and Hawthorne sometimes paces around a bit or hides for a second in the bathroom but is often back to normal very quickly too." - Yes, agreed. That tells me that what is going on is normal and not worrying. In video 7 I was a bit disappointed that he went into the bathroom (which tells me he is still lacking trust which is not surprising) but he sure rebounded well which eases any concerns I may have had.

"And I know I'm still throwing the treats sometimes instead of placing them, hahaha. I'm trying to keep them from getting too close." - They love it. Not a problem at all.

So we'll have to work on reassuring and distracting Hawthorne a bit more. Also, I think getting them more time if possible. He does seem to still be in that novelty time.

But overall, I think though the videos weren't as good as the previous set they may be more reflective and where we are at. I don't see anything abnormal. Resident cat (Hawthorne) having some adjustment/confidence issues but in a spotty way. Not continuous which is great. So we have more work to do but many more positives than negatives. And Florence is telling me she isn't afraid of him for the most part. She is at times cautious but that is normal and again just tells us that we have more work to do which is normal. Hawthorne seems more defensive than offensive which is good because that is easier to handle. We just have to show him that she doesn't mean harm (and she doesn't).

I am not at all worried. Everything is going as expected. Keep up the great work!! If you feel safe sit by the one gate and just talk to them, reassure them, etc. If you can keep them calm and kinda bore them where one choses to walk away that is pretty good. BUT you have to be safe that you don't get any redirected aggression. Might want to sit on the inside of Florence's gate to do this and see how they do.

My goodness are they gorgeous cats!!!

 

[Furmama22]

Hi,

Let's take a look.

Video 5 - My goodness is she ADORABLE!!! I LOVE that her tail is straight up when she goes into the room at first. Yes, he did come charging. BUT she did really well. But he did get distracted. Which is great. Body language looks good though. We could leave the door open and use some words to reassure etc. And let's see how they do. So, he did come charging a bit more than I would like. BUT the body language looked good, her reaction was good, he was distracted. So overall, I say pretty good. Try to use words to get him to look up to you etc. Reassure him as well.

Video 6 - I LOVE how he came out this time. This is PERFECT!! My goodness is he adorable!! I love how she is finished looks at him, he sees her and choses food over her. Then she moves quickly to the gate and he see her and still chooses food. I thought that would be where he would charge and he didn't. YES!!! Good job Hawthorne!! This video IS FANTASTIC!!! Body language was terrific. AND there were a few times it could have gone wrong and it didn't.

Video 7 - So he looks good then she comes and hisses and he takes it a bit hard. :/ He didn't respond aggressively which is great. But it shows he is feeling a little insecure still. Not at all surprising though.

Video 8 - I LOVE he has his back to her. A good sign of trust. He looks at her then looks back to you. Awesome!! I would have thought he would have gone for her. He didn't, awesome!! Her body language looks great. She is not really afraid of him. He is doing great. AND then she comes to the gate and he has the treat. Ok, he finishes the treat and now we have a stand off. Here just reassure them. "It's ok" or something like that. In this situation if we get one (preferably Hawthorne) to look away it is a big win. PERFECT. You give a treat and she turns nd goes for it showing Hawthorne she prefers a treat or a fight. Perfect!! His body language then look a little aggressive but then he goes for the treat. Yes!!! A win there. Then he turns his back on her. Something they would never do if they really felt threatened. Then he goes back for the other treat, then gets a bit aggressive for a moment then you do a great job distracting. Then he is looking for her. But he looks away and you give a treat and he is distracted. Great. So a lot of positives. His body language two times were a little disappointing but what happened after was positive.

"The part that was missed was Hawthorne swatting my leg when I approached the gate. I think you said that could be because he is feeling insecure. He sometimes will follow me when I'm going back into Florence's room and try to swat me when I open the gate. He's a bit testy about that." - I WISH I could have seen that. To determine how "aggressive" it was. Judging by how video 8 started it must not have been that aggressive. He could be trying to keep you with him.

"Second note is that generally, even after all hissing/growling etc, the cats recover very quickly. I would say Florence recovers the fastest (like, instantaneous) and Hawthorne sometimes paces around a bit or hides for a second in the bathroom but is often back to normal very quickly too." - Yes, agreed. That tells me that what is going on is normal and not worrying. In video 7 I was a bit disappointed that he went into the bathroom (which tells me he is still lacking trust which is not surprising) but he sure rebounded well which eases any concerns I may have had.

"And I know I'm still throwing the treats sometimes instead of placing them, hahaha. I'm trying to keep them from getting too close." - They love it. Not a problem at all.

So we'll have to work on reassuring and distracting Hawthorne a bit more. Also, I think getting them more time if possible. He does seem to still be in that novelty time.

But overall, I think though the videos weren't as good as the previous set they may be more reflective and where we are at. I don't see anything abnormal. Resident cat (Hawthorne) having some adjustment/confidence issues but in a spotty way. Not continuous which is great. So we have more work to do but many more positives than negatives. And Florence is telling me she isn't afraid of him for the most part. She is at times cautious but that is normal and again just tells us that we have more work to do which is normal. Hawthorne seems more defensive than offensive which is good because that is easier to handle. We just have to show him that she doesn't mean harm (and she doesn't).

I am not at all worried. Everything is going as expected. Keep up the great work!! If you feel safe sit by the one gate and just talk to them, reassure them, etc. If you can keep them calm and kinda bore them where one choses to walk away that is pretty good. BUT you have to be safe that you don't get any redirected aggression. Might want to sit on the inside of Florence's gate to do this and see how they do.

My goodness are they gorgeous cats!!!

Thank you for this wonderful feedback! It's very helpful. I guess as you say, the basic summary is: Hawthorne still a bit insecure/still seeing her as a novelty; Florence feeling a bit cautious.

In terms of keeping up the work, would you just continue with this process for now? Treats at the single gate? I can also try to sit in with Florence and pet her while Hawthorne is outside. In terms of redirected aggression, Hawthorne is the scarier one.

By more time, do you mean - more weeks, or, more time during the day to see each other?

I'm at a loss for how to help Hawthorne - he has to go into a bedroom a few times a day so that Florence can come out, and he really doesn't like that, but, I don't know how else to do it to be fair to her. And I think he's more sensitive to the accumulating boxes and so forth. They seemed to get to a point where it was pretty good (almost touched noses - about a month ago or more) and now it's kind of set in this pattern and I can't seem to get them to break free.

Does this change your thoughts on introducing them at the new house without gates, once they are settled?

 

[Furmama22]

Thank you for this wonderful feedback! It's very helpful. I guess as you say, the basic summary is: Hawthorne still a bit insecure/still seeing her as a novelty; Florence feeling a bit cautious.

In terms of keeping up the work, would you just continue with this process for now? Treats at the single gate? I can also try to sit in with Florence and pet her while Hawthorne is outside. In terms of redirected aggression, Hawthorne is the scarier one.

By more time, do you mean - more weeks, or, more time during the day to see each other?

I'm at a loss for how to help Hawthorne - he has to go into a bedroom a few times a day so that Florence can come out, and he really doesn't like that, but, I don't know how else to do it to be fair to her. And I think he's more sensitive to the accumulating boxes and so forth. They seemed to get to a point where it was pretty good (almost touched noses - about a month ago or more) and now it's kind of set in this pattern and I can't seem to get them to break free.

Does this change your thoughts on introducing them at the new house without gates, once they are settled?

Last thing: I think part of Hawthorne's stress comes from having to go into the bedroom for those three times during the day. It makes him unhappy. I guess what I'm saying is, what if now it's the ROUTINE that's contributing to his insecurity, but because he's insecure, we keep going with the routine. Does that make sense? Or as my partner Michael would say, the process itself is now making him unhappy.

He actually seemed happier at my mom's. He didn't like being the bedroom there either but I think he didn't feel territory was taken away and I spent more time with him in the room, which he liked.

I hope at the new house he'll be happier with more space and maybe a new routine that suits him better.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you for this wonderful feedback! It's very helpful. I guess as you say, the basic summary is: Hawthorne still a bit insecure/still seeing her as a novelty; Florence feeling a bit cautious.

In terms of keeping up the work, would you just continue with this process for now? Treats at the single gate? I can also try to sit in with Florence and pet her while Hawthorne is outside. In terms of redirected aggression, Hawthorne is the scarier one.

By more time, do you mean - more weeks, or, more time during the day to see each other?

I'm at a loss for how to help Hawthorne - he has to go into a bedroom a few times a day so that Florence can come out, and he really doesn't like that, but, I don't know how else to do it to be fair to her. And I think he's more sensitive to the accumulating boxes and so forth. They seemed to get to a point where it was pretty good (almost touched noses - about a month ago or more) and now it's kind of set in this pattern and I can't seem to get them to break free.

Does this change your thoughts on introducing them at the new house without gates, once they are settled?

"Thank you for this wonderful feedback! It's very helpful." - Of course, you are very welcome.

" I guess as you say, the basic summary is: Hawthorne still a bit insecure/still seeing her as a novelty" - Which is totally normal. He is really not bad at all. On a scale of 1-10 1 being totally bad and 10 being totally accepting I see Hawthorne as a 7-8. Not an issue at all.

" Florence feeling a bit cautious." - I think she is doing great. Maybe a bit cautious but that is normal but mostly VERY good with him.

"In terms of keeping up the work, would you just continue with this process for now?" - Yes with extended periods of just hanging out and reassuring if possible.

"Treats at the single gate?" - Yes and the reassuring, talking calmly and confidently to them. Is it possible to use the other gate as the single gate?

"I can also try to sit in with Florence and pet her while Hawthorne is outside." - Yes and you don't even have to pet really. Let her rub or maybe a pet here and there but just talk, hang out etc. We don't want to overstimulate. And then talk to Hawthorne, reassure etc.

"In terms of redirected aggression, Hawthorne is the scarier one. " - Yes

"By more time, do you mean - more weeks, or, more time during the day to see each other?" - Extending the length of the session. Just so the novelty wears off. How long typically are the sessions now?

"I'm at a loss for how to help Hawthorne" - Everything you are doing is helping him. All you have to do is keep it up. It is fine.

" - he has to go into a bedroom a few times a day so that Florence can come out, and he really doesn't like that" - I think I would reduce that if possible. Florence will be fine with coming out a little less and it will be less stressful for him.

" but, I don't know how else to do it to be fair to her." - You are more than fair. The hard work is usually with the resident cat. Florence will be fine. You don't have to worry about her as much as you think and the faster we get him feeling comfortable the faster she will be out and about.

" And I think he's more sensitive to the accumulating boxes and so forth." - Yes, moving is stressful and that may not be helping. Any change can be very off putting for most cats. That is normal.

"They seemed to get to a point where it was pretty good (almost touched noses - about a month ago or more)" - Yes, there are usually a lot of false starts. A lot of times that is just investigating rather than acceptance. That doesn't bother me at all.

"and now it's kind of set in this pattern and I can't seem to get them to break free." - This is not bad at all. Even if it holds here it might take a little longer but it will lead to success.

"Does this change your thoughts on introducing them at the new house without gates, once they are settled?" - No. But we'll see how they act with gates before we decide on doing a no gate intro. Hawthorne might be a bit stressed from the move but we'll see how he acts. We will just go at his pace.

"Last thing: I think part of Hawthorne's stress comes from having to go into the bedroom for those three times during the day. It makes him unhappy." - I don't really see him as stressed. He does not look or act stressed. BUT if you are seeing him stressed that could be it. Cats do not like territory being "taken" away so that change can be hard on most cats. I would cut it to 1 or 2 times, Florence will be fine with that, just give her a little extra love in her room.

"I guess what I'm saying is, what if now it's the ROUTINE that's contributing to his insecurity, but because he's insecure, we keep going with the routine. Does that make sense? Or as my partner Michael would say, the process itself is now making him unhappy." - I don't think it is the routine necessarily. From the videos I don't see a stressed cat. He accepts like 80-85% it seems to me. We just need to finish it off. I don't see him as unhappy. How does he act when there isn't a session? Normal? Or a little different?

"He actually seemed happier at my mom's. He didn't like being the bedroom there either but I think he didn't feel territory was taken away" - Exactly, it wasn't a territory issue which I am expecting will be helpful in the new house.

"and I spent more time with him in the room, which he liked." - And THAT is very important so he knows the love and attention isn't changing because of "that new cat".

"I hope at the new house he'll be happier with more space and maybe a new routine that suits him better." - I feel like I am missing something. Do you really think he is unhappy? Is this because of the way he acts in the session and/or the time he is in a closed room? Or all of the time? Because in the videos I am not seeing an unhappy cat. I see a cat that is acting normally in an intro.

Hang in there. I think you might have taken my comments on the video worse than they were. I will always give it to you straight and I did but maybe it came across worse than I meant? Hawthorne is acting like a normal resident cat that is well on his way to being intro'd.

I would like to do the other single gate if possible, lengthen the time it is open and you are with Florence and limit having Hawthorne in the closed room to maybe once a day and if you can spend time with him in there that might be helpful.

I have not changed my view that they will be intro'd. They will be.

 

[Furmama22]

"Thank you for this wonderful feedback! It's very helpful." - Of course, you are very welcome.

" I guess as you say, the basic summary is: Hawthorne still a bit insecure/still seeing her as a novelty" - Which is totally normal. He is really not bad at all. On a scale of 1-10 1 being totally bad and 10 being totally accepting I see Hawthorne as a 7-8. Not an issue at all.

" Florence feeling a bit cautious." - I think she is doing great. Maybe a bit cautious but that is normal but mostly VERY good with him.

"In terms of keeping up the work, would you just continue with this process for now?" - Yes with extended periods of just hanging out and reassuring if possible.

"Treats at the single gate?" - Yes and the reassuring, talking calmly and confidently to them. Is it possible to use the other gate as the single gate?

"I can also try to sit in with Florence and pet her while Hawthorne is outside." - Yes and you don't even have to pet really. Let her rub or maybe a pet here and there but just talk, hang out etc. We don't want to overstimulate. And then talk to Hawthorne, reassure etc.

"In terms of redirected aggression, Hawthorne is the scarier one. " - Yes

"By more time, do you mean - more weeks, or, more time during the day to see each other?" - Extending the length of the session. Just so the novelty wears off. How long typically are the sessions now?

"I'm at a loss for how to help Hawthorne" - Everything you are doing is helping him. All you have to do is keep it up. It is fine.

" - he has to go into a bedroom a few times a day so that Florence can come out, and he really doesn't like that" - I think I would reduce that if possible. Florence will be fine with coming out a little less and it will be less stressful for him.

" but, I don't know how else to do it to be fair to her." - You are more than fair. The hard work is usually with the resident cat. Florence will be fine. You don't have to worry about her as much as you think and the faster we get him feeling comfortable the faster she will be out and about.

" And I think he's more sensitive to the accumulating boxes and so forth." - Yes, moving is stressful and that may not be helping. Any change can be very off putting for most cats. That is normal.

"They seemed to get to a point where it was pretty good (almost touched noses - about a month ago or more)" - Yes, there are usually a lot of false starts. A lot of times that is just investigating rather than acceptance. That doesn't bother me at all.

"and now it's kind of set in this pattern and I can't seem to get them to break free." - This is not bad at all. Even if it holds here it might take a little longer but it will lead to success.

"Does this change your thoughts on introducing them at the new house without gates, once they are settled?" - No. But we'll see how they act with gates before we decide on doing a no gate intro. Hawthorne might be a bit stressed from the move but we'll see how he acts. We will just go at his pace.

"Last thing: I think part of Hawthorne's stress comes from having to go into the bedroom for those three times during the day. It makes him unhappy." - I don't really see him as stressed. He does not look or act stressed. BUT if you are seeing him stressed that could be it. Cats do not like territory being "taken" away so that change can be hard on most cats. I would cut it to 1 or 2 times, Florence will be fine with that, just give her a little extra love in her room.

"I guess what I'm saying is, what if now it's the ROUTINE that's contributing to his insecurity, but because he's insecure, we keep going with the routine. Does that make sense? Or as my partner Michael would say, the process itself is now making him unhappy." - I don't think it is the routine necessarily. From the videos I don't see a stressed cat. He accepts like 80-85% it seems to me. We just need to finish it off. I don't see him as unhappy. How does he act when there isn't a session? Normal? Or a little different?

"He actually seemed happier at my mom's. He didn't like being the bedroom there either but I think he didn't feel territory was taken away" - Exactly, it wasn't a territory issue which I am expecting will be helpful in the new house.

"and I spent more time with him in the room, which he liked." - And THAT is very important so he knows the love and attention isn't changing because of "that new cat".

"I hope at the new house he'll be happier with more space and maybe a new routine that suits him better." - I feel like I am missing something. Do you really think he is unhappy? Is this because of the way he acts in the session and/or the time he is in a closed room? Or all of the time? Because in the videos I am not seeing an unhappy cat. I see a cat that is acting normally in an intro.

Hang in there. I think you might have taken my comments on the video worse than they were. I will always give it to you straight and I did but maybe it came across worse than I meant? Hawthorne is acting like a normal resident cat that is well on his way to being intro'd.

I would like to do the other single gate if possible, lengthen the time it is open and you are with Florence and limit having Hawthorne in the closed room to maybe once a day and if you can spend time with him in there that might be helpful.

I have not changed my view that they will be intro'd. They will be.

Thanks again for all of this. I think I'm lost in the weeds here and can't quite see where we are. When they do well, I feel hopeful. When they don't do as well, I feel a bit more uncertain about getting to the finish line. But I always appreciate the objective perspective!!!

I don't think Hawthorne is unhappy, per se. He mostly acts normal. He responds when he hears Florence scratching at the door (by hiding in the bathroom or yowling a bit) and I can tell he is a bit more anxious, but truthfully he's kind of been that way since our cat Tennyson passed away last August. He is still trying to find his new normal. It's increased with Florence, but it was there before too. And I guess I say unhappy because when he's in the bedroom he usually is fine for about 10 minutes and then he cries a lot of the rest of the time. And he's doing a bit more...humping than usual, which also started after Tennyson passed.

But outside of that I think he's doing ok! It might have been too strong to say 'unhappy.' He's more just a bit anxious/insecure, as you said.

Wise advice to try the other gate! I'm game to try that. That gives Florence maybe the ability to approach or not, as she wants, instead of Hawthorne. And I will pare down the outside times too.

I'm really grateful for your advice and thoughts, and for saying what seems normal. Having only ever done this once before (and it was easy), I don't have a good barometer for normal.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thanks again for all of this. I think I'm lost in the weeds here and can't quite see where we are. When they do well, I feel hopeful. When they don't do as well, I feel a bit more uncertain about getting to the finish line. But I always appreciate the objective perspective!!!

I don't think Hawthorne is unhappy, per se. He mostly acts normal. He responds when he hears Florence scratching at the door (by hiding in the bathroom or yowling a bit) and I can tell he is a bit more anxious, but truthfully he's kind of been that way since our cat Tennyson passed away last August. He is still trying to find his new normal. It's increased with Florence, but it was there before too. And I guess I say unhappy because when he's in the bedroom he usually is fine for about 10 minutes and then he cries a lot of the rest of the time. And he's doing a bit more...humping than usual, which also started after Tennyson passed.

But outside of that I think he's doing ok! It might have been too strong to say 'unhappy.' He's more just a bit anxious/insecure, as you said.

Wise advice to try the other gate! I'm game to try that. That gives Florence maybe the ability to approach or not, as she wants, instead of Hawthorne. And I will pare down the outside times too.

I'm really grateful for your advice and thoughts, and for saying what seems normal. Having only ever done this once before (and it was easy), I don't have a good barometer for normal.

"Thanks again for all of this." - Of course, you are very welcome.

" I think I'm lost in the weeds here and can't quite see where we are. " - Which is TOTALLY normal. I see this all the time. After it is all done it will make a lot more sense.

"When they do well, I feel hopeful. When they don't do as well, I feel a bit more uncertain about getting to the finish line. " - Again, that is totally normal. I have done so many of these that I know what is normal and what isn't. It comes down to experience. You'll see it when it is all over.

"But I always appreciate the objective perspective!!!" - I will always give you the truth.

"I don't think Hawthorne is unhappy, per se. He mostly acts normal." - Great. That is what I thought. So it is good to hear that my belief is confirmed.

" He responds when he hears Florence scratching at the door (by hiding in the bathroom or yowling a bit) and I can tell he is a bit more anxious," - That is normal. There is an "intruder" in "his" territory that he doesn't know if he can trust, if that "intruder" will hurt him, take his food, water, etc. So in the process we try to show them the other cat is not a negative, not a threat, etc.

" but truthfully he's kind of been that way since our cat Tennyson passed away last August." - I forgot he lost his sibling. THAT explains a lot. Some cats have a very hard time adjusting.

How was their relationship? How did they get along? How close were they? How much did Hawthorne mourn?

" He is still trying to find his new normal. It's increased with Florence, but it was there before too." - Yes. But he is doing pretty well really.

" And I guess I say unhappy because when he's in the bedroom he usually is fine for about 10 minutes and then he cries a lot of the rest of the time." - That is normal. Having territory "taken away" is stressful for most cats. Let's totally stop putting him in the other room for now. Florence has tasted the freedom so she may have a little adjustment but weighing the positives and negatives for now let's not limit his territory. When you make the move shortly it will be resolved.

"And he's doing a bit more...humping than usual, which also started after Tennyson passed." - Yes, he is trying to find comfort, security. I am not worried by it though.

"But outside of that I think he's doing ok! It might have been too strong to say 'unhappy.' " - Ok, good. That supports my view of him.

"He's more just a bit anxious/insecure, as you said." - Which is normal in an intro.

"Wise advice to try the other gate! I'm game to try that. That gives Florence maybe the ability to approach or not, as she wants, instead of Hawthorne. " - And that hallway will give Hawthorne a "bigger" feeling, not so confined, multi escape routes kinda thing. We'll see how he does. Florence will be able to come closer or chose not to. But I think for Hawthorne it will be better and neutral for Florence so overall positive.

"And I will pare down the outside times too." - For now until the move let's keep Florence totally in the room and let Hawthorne have normal free reign. It will be only for a short time.

"I'm really grateful for your advice and thoughts, and for saying what seems normal." - You are very welcome.

" Having only ever done this once before (and it was easy), I don't have a good barometer for normal. " - Exactly. I have seen everything so know what is a worry and what is normal. Just don't worry and keep moving forward. IF there is a time to worry I promise I will let you know. But I do not see any thing to worry about.

 

[Furmama22]

"Thanks again for all of this." - Of course, you are very welcome.

" I think I'm lost in the weeds here and can't quite see where we are. " - Which is TOTALLY normal. I see this all the time. After it is all done it will make a lot more sense.

"When they do well, I feel hopeful. When they don't do as well, I feel a bit more uncertain about getting to the finish line. " - Again, that is totally normal. I have done so many of these that I know what is normal and what isn't. It comes down to experience. You'll see it when it is all over.

"But I always appreciate the objective perspective!!!" - I will always give you the truth.

"I don't think Hawthorne is unhappy, per se. He mostly acts normal." - Great. That is what I thought. So it is good to hear that my belief is confirmed.

" He responds when he hears Florence scratching at the door (by hiding in the bathroom or yowling a bit) and I can tell he is a bit more anxious," - That is normal. There is an "intruder" in "his" territory that he doesn't know if he can trust, if that "intruder" will hurt him, take his food, water, etc. So in the process we try to show them the other cat is not a negative, not a threat, etc.

" but truthfully he's kind of been that way since our cat Tennyson passed away last August." - I forgot he lost his sibling. THAT explains a lot. Some cats have a very hard time adjusting.

How was their relationship? How did they get along? How close were they? How much did Hawthorne mourn?

" He is still trying to find his new normal. It's increased with Florence, but it was there before too." - Yes. But he is doing pretty well really.

" And I guess I say unhappy because when he's in the bedroom he usually is fine for about 10 minutes and then he cries a lot of the rest of the time." - That is normal. Having territory "taken away" is stressful for most cats. Let's totally stop putting him in the other room for now. Florence has tasted the freedom so she may have a little adjustment but weighing the positives and negatives for now let's not limit his territory. When you make the move shortly it will be resolved.

"And he's doing a bit more...humping than usual, which also started after Tennyson passed." - Yes, he is trying to find comfort, security. I am not worried by it though.

"But outside of that I think he's doing ok! It might have been too strong to say 'unhappy.' " - Ok, good. That supports my view of him.

"He's more just a bit anxious/insecure, as you said." - Which is normal in an intro.

"Wise advice to try the other gate! I'm game to try that. That gives Florence maybe the ability to approach or not, as she wants, instead of Hawthorne. " - And that hallway will give Hawthorne a "bigger" feeling, not so confined, multi escape routes kinda thing. We'll see how he does. Florence will be able to come closer or chose not to. But I think for Hawthorne it will be better and neutral for Florence so overall positive.

"And I will pare down the outside times too." - For now until the move let's keep Florence totally in the room and let Hawthorne have normal free reign. It will be only for a short time.

"I'm really grateful for your advice and thoughts, and for saying what seems normal." - You are very welcome.

" Having only ever done this once before (and it was easy), I don't have a good barometer for normal. " - Exactly. I have seen everything so know what is a worry and what is normal. Just don't worry and keep moving forward. IF there is a time to worry I promise I will let you know. But I do not see any thing to worry about.

Hi C calicosrspecial !

A couple of things to share. In relation to Tennyson, our cat who passed away - Hawthorne was definitely confused after his passing. And he did start yowling and doing some of his other stress behaviours. He was much calmer with Tennyson around. Much less anxious. They got along generally very well. They were not bonded, but I adopted Hawthorne at 6 months old and Tennyson was there for Hawthorne's whole life, so they had a good routine and kept each other company. When I adopted Hawthorne I was living with my sister, who also had a cat (for a time we had three - Franklin (her cat), Tennyson (my cat), and Hawthorne (our cat)). But, Hawthorne bullied Franklin (he would jump on his back and attack him - it upset Franklin) so when we moved into different places, I kept Hawthorne because he and Tennyson got along better.

Anyways, moral of the story, I think Tennyson passing away was hard for him. I think Hawthorne started to blossom after Tennyson's passing - in terms of playtime, affection - but he also seemed bored and lonely. I missed having a cozy, affectionate cat like Tennyson. So I thought Florence would solve all of our problems!

Second thing - last night, we were going to do treats and I was in the room with Florence. Michael was coming into Florie's room and I was going to go out to give Hawthorne his treat (he's a bit more scared of Michael and always has been). Florence was right by her gate, waiting for her treat, and Michael accidentally let Hawthorne through the second gate. Hawthorne came right up to Florence (I didn't even see him!) and went right for her through her gate for some bonks/scratches. He got part of Michael's leg too. Florence ran and hid under the bed, growling. She came out about two minutes later for her paste treat (she loves those) and Hawthorne ate ahis treat too, but she wouldn't come near the gate again. Michael stayed in the room with her and said after about five minutes she started grooming and was back to normal. Hawthorne was back to normal pretty quickly too. By this morning all is fine, except every time something like this happens, Florence growls more and more easily. She growled when I opened the door, and Hawthorne wasn't even there, hahah.

Anyways, point of all this is: I wonder if for now we should just focus on keeping each cat happy, and try to pick things up again at the new house, once they're both a bit settled? Hawthorne just seems too...amped up. I'm trying to do more treat times but lately he either hides in the bathroom or around the corner, and only eats his treats after I've closed the door to Florence's room again.

Do you think that would be ok?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hi C calicosrspecial !

A couple of things to share. In relation to Tennyson, our cat who passed away - Hawthorne was definitely confused after his passing. And he did start yowling and doing some of his other stress behaviours. He was much calmer with Tennyson around. Much less anxious. They got along generally very well. They were not bonded, but I adopted Hawthorne at 6 months old and Tennyson was there for Hawthorne's whole life, so they had a good routine and kept each other company. When I adopted Hawthorne I was living with my sister, who also had a cat (for a time we had three - Franklin (her cat), Tennyson (my cat), and Hawthorne (our cat)). But, Hawthorne bullied Franklin (he would jump on his back and attack him - it upset Franklin) so when we moved into different places, I kept Hawthorne because he and Tennyson got along better.

Anyways, moral of the story, I think Tennyson passing away was hard for him. I think Hawthorne started to blossom after Tennyson's passing - in terms of playtime, affection - but he also seemed bored and lonely. I missed having a cozy, affectionate cat like Tennyson. So I thought Florence would solve all of our problems!

Second thing - last night, we were going to do treats and I was in the room with Florence. Michael was coming into Florie's room and I was going to go out to give Hawthorne his treat (he's a bit more scared of Michael and always has been). Florence was right by her gate, waiting for her treat, and Michael accidentally let Hawthorne through the second gate. Hawthorne came right up to Florence (I didn't even see him!) and went right for her through her gate for some bonks/scratches. He got part of Michael's leg too. Florence ran and hid under the bed, growling. She came out about two minutes later for her paste treat (she loves those) and Hawthorne ate ahis treat too, but she wouldn't come near the gate again. Michael stayed in the room with her and said after about five minutes she started grooming and was back to normal. Hawthorne was back to normal pretty quickly too. By this morning all is fine, except every time something like this happens, Florence growls more and more easily. She growled when I opened the door, and Hawthorne wasn't even there, hahah.

Anyways, point of all this is: I wonder if for now we should just focus on keeping each cat happy, and try to pick things up again at the new house, once they're both a bit settled? Hawthorne just seems too...amped up. I'm trying to do more treat times but lately he either hides in the bathroom or around the corner, and only eats his treats after I've closed the door to Florence's room again.

Do you think that would be ok?

"A couple of things to share. In relation to Tennyson, our cat who passed away - Hawthorne was definitely confused after his passing. And he did start yowling and doing some of his other stress behaviours. He was much calmer with Tennyson around. Much less anxious. They got along generally very well. They were not bonded, but I adopted Hawthorne at 6 months old and Tennyson was there for Hawthorne's whole life, so they had a good routine and kept each other company." - Yes. He is struggling with the loss.

"When I adopted Hawthorne I was living with my sister, who also had a cat (for a time we had three - Franklin (her cat), Tennyson (my cat), and Hawthorne (our cat)). But, Hawthorne bullied Franklin (he would jump on his back and attack him - it upset Franklin) so when we moved into different places, I kept Hawthorne because he and Tennyson got along better." - Ok. Was there a formal intro process with them? Did Franklin act insecure?

"Anyways, moral of the story, I think Tennyson passing away was hard for him. I think Hawthorne started to blossom after Tennyson's passing - in terms of playtime, affection - but he also seemed bored and lonely. I missed having a cozy, affectionate cat like Tennyson. So I thought Florence would solve all of our problems! " - Ok, I am understanding better.

"Second thing - last night, we were going to do treats and I was in the room with Florence. Michael was coming into Florie's room and I was going to go out to give Hawthorne his treat (he's a bit more scared of Michael and always has been). Florence was right by her gate, waiting for her treat, and Michael accidentally let Hawthorne through the second gate. Hawthorne came right up to Florence (I didn't even see him!) and went right for her through her gate for some bonks/scratches." - Ok.

"He got part of Michael's leg too." - Yes, accidentally I would guess.

" Florence ran and hid under the bed, growling." - Ok, so it was pretty shocking for her.

" She came out about two minutes later for her paste treat (she loves those)" - Oh, ok, I did not expect that. That is great.

" and Hawthorne ate ahis treat too" - Great

" but she wouldn't come near the gate again." - Understandably.

" Michael stayed in the room with her and said after about five minutes she started grooming and was back to normal." - Ok, fast rebound. EXACTLY what I would like to see.

" Hawthorne was back to normal pretty quickly too." - Ok, great.

" By this morning all is fine, except every time something like this happens, Florence growls more and more easily. She growled when I opened the door, and Hawthorne wasn't even there, hahah." - Yes, and she likes to growl in general.

Ok, well that is not bad. Of course we don't want the negativity BUT if it happens that is the response we want to see. It tells me Hawthorne is feeling insecure still. So we jsut need to keep working on him. And based on the history I am understanding more about where he is coming from.

Are you playing with Hawthorne in his territory?

Also, I definitely want to not have him closed in any other room in the old house. We'll figure out how to do it in the new house.

"Anyways, point of all this is: I wonder if for now we should just focus on keeping each cat happy, and try to pick things up again at the new house, once they're both a bit settled?" - Yes, focus on keeping eat cat happy so have Hawthorne have total access to everything except Flo's room. BUT I would like to do the gate sessions and try to distract and keep them as positive as possible. Also, let's figure out a way to keep the initial visual access, etc more calm and not as shocking. How we do that? I am not so sure BUT it seems like it was happening before.

"Hawthorne just seems too...amped up." - In the videos I didn't see that. I suspect the stress of the upcoming move is impacting him though. :/

"I'm trying to do more treat times but lately he either hides in the bathroom or around the corner, and only eats his treats after I've closed the door to Florence's room again." - Ok, but it is fine if he doesn't have visual. Just give him treats where he will eat them and reassure him and try to make it as positive as possible for both of them. He is fearful of Florence still so we just have ot show him she doesn't mean harm.

"Do you think that would be ok?" - SO I think your way is fine. If you want though feel free to do what I suggest (which is similar to what we have been doing). If you sense negativity just try to de-escalate it and if you can't then try to bring Hawthorne away from the gates and then try to close off the door (hopefully she will not jump the gate).

I would like to step up play with Hawthorne in his territory. Just a good play session then feed some treats (just on his own). He is definitely feeling a bit insecure so we want to boost his confidence as a confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted.

I know you are stressed, frustrated, etc. But this really wasn't that bad and it is totally manageable. This happens all the time in intro's. We have some work with Hawthorne but we will get there. Really work on positive encounters and reassuring and distracting him. We want to convince him she does not mean harm to him (and she doesn't).

 

[Furmama22]

"A couple of things to share. In relation to Tennyson, our cat who passed away - Hawthorne was definitely confused after his passing. And he did start yowling and doing some of his other stress behaviours. He was much calmer with Tennyson around. Much less anxious. They got along generally very well. They were not bonded, but I adopted Hawthorne at 6 months old and Tennyson was there for Hawthorne's whole life, so they had a good routine and kept each other company." - Yes. He is struggling with the loss.

"When I adopted Hawthorne I was living with my sister, who also had a cat (for a time we had three - Franklin (her cat), Tennyson (my cat), and Hawthorne (our cat)). But, Hawthorne bullied Franklin (he would jump on his back and attack him - it upset Franklin) so when we moved into different places, I kept Hawthorne because he and Tennyson got along better." - Ok. Was there a formal intro process with them? Did Franklin act insecure?

"Anyways, moral of the story, I think Tennyson passing away was hard for him. I think Hawthorne started to blossom after Tennyson's passing - in terms of playtime, affection - but he also seemed bored and lonely. I missed having a cozy, affectionate cat like Tennyson. So I thought Florence would solve all of our problems! " - Ok, I am understanding better.

"Second thing - last night, we were going to do treats and I was in the room with Florence. Michael was coming into Florie's room and I was going to go out to give Hawthorne his treat (he's a bit more scared of Michael and always has been). Florence was right by her gate, waiting for her treat, and Michael accidentally let Hawthorne through the second gate. Hawthorne came right up to Florence (I didn't even see him!) and went right for her through her gate for some bonks/scratches." - Ok.

"He got part of Michael's leg too." - Yes, accidentally I would guess.

" Florence ran and hid under the bed, growling." - Ok, so it was pretty shocking for her.

" She came out about two minutes later for her paste treat (she loves those)" - Oh, ok, I did not expect that. That is great.

" and Hawthorne ate ahis treat too" - Great

" but she wouldn't come near the gate again." - Understandably.

" Michael stayed in the room with her and said after about five minutes she started grooming and was back to normal." - Ok, fast rebound. EXACTLY what I would like to see.

" Hawthorne was back to normal pretty quickly too." - Ok, great.

" By this morning all is fine, except every time something like this happens, Florence growls more and more easily. She growled when I opened the door, and Hawthorne wasn't even there, hahah." - Yes, and she likes to growl in general.

Ok, well that is not bad. Of course we don't want the negativity BUT if it happens that is the response we want to see. It tells me Hawthorne is feeling insecure still. So we jsut need to keep working on him. And based on the history I am understanding more about where he is coming from.

Are you playing with Hawthorne in his territory?

Also, I definitely want to not have him closed in any other room in the old house. We'll figure out how to do it in the new house.

"Anyways, point of all this is: I wonder if for now we should just focus on keeping each cat happy, and try to pick things up again at the new house, once they're both a bit settled?" - Yes, focus on keeping eat cat happy so have Hawthorne have total access to everything except Flo's room. BUT I would like to do the gate sessions and try to distract and keep them as positive as possible. Also, let's figure out a way to keep the initial visual access, etc more calm and not as shocking. How we do that? I am not so sure BUT it seems like it was happening before.

"Hawthorne just seems too...amped up." - In the videos I didn't see that. I suspect the stress of the upcoming move is impacting him though. :/

"I'm trying to do more treat times but lately he either hides in the bathroom or around the corner, and only eats his treats after I've closed the door to Florence's room again." - Ok, but it is fine if he doesn't have visual. Just give him treats where he will eat them and reassure him and try to make it as positive as possible for both of them. He is fearful of Florence still so we just have ot show him she doesn't mean harm.

"Do you think that would be ok?" - SO I think your way is fine. If you want though feel free to do what I suggest (which is similar to what we have been doing). If you sense negativity just try to de-escalate it and if you can't then try to bring Hawthorne away from the gates and then try to close off the door (hopefully she will not jump the gate).

I would like to step up play with Hawthorne in his territory. Just a good play session then feed some treats (just on his own). He is definitely feeling a bit insecure so we want to boost his confidence as a confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted.

I know you are stressed, frustrated, etc. But this really wasn't that bad and it is totally manageable. This happens all the time in intro's. We have some work with Hawthorne but we will get there. Really work on positive encounters and reassuring and distracting him. We want to convince him she does not mean harm to him (and she doesn't).

She does like to growl, haha.

So if I'm understanding correctly, you're thinking: play more with Hawthorne and spend more focussed time with him; reduce/eliminate his time put away in the bedroom; give treats for both even if he is hiding in the bathroom during treat sessions (and they aren't seeing each other); and just keep going like that. Really focus on his confidence.

I can do that! I definitely felt frustrated last night but....they were better before, so we can get there again. Michael felt bad about Hawthorne sneaking past him - he's not as vigilant as me, and doesn't always realize how fast the cats are.

 

[Furmama22]

Again, thank you for being so positive! Honestly, your support is helping me so much!

Also PS: no, we didn't do a formal introduction process many years ago with Hawthorne & my sister's cat Franklin. We kept them separate and then just introduced them. I don't think Franklin acted insecurely, per se, but then again I wasn't really paying attention. He is a very gentle cat and it's possible he seemed like the one to go after (Tennyson didn't put up with that). Hawthorne has always been anxious and with a tendency to being insecure/scared. So I knew this process would be challenging. I just didn't know we'd be adding in the moving and all that.

 

[calicosrspecial]

She does like to growl, haha.

So if I'm understanding correctly, you're thinking: play more with Hawthorne and spend more focussed time with him; reduce/eliminate his time put away in the bedroom; give treats for both even if he is hiding in the bathroom during treat sessions (and they aren't seeing each other); and just keep going like that. Really focus on his confidence.

I can do that! I definitely felt frustrated last night but....they were better before, so we can get there again. Michael felt bad about Hawthorne sneaking past him - he's not as vigilant as me, and doesn't always realize how fast the cats are.

"She does like to growl, haha. " - Yes, some do and it is just part of their communication. I had a feral in my colony that EVERY TIME I would go and feed her she would growl. And after a while I was like "whatever" and just fed her and hand fed her her chicken. Cats and humans understand in time.

"So if I'm understanding correctly, you're thinking: play more with Hawthorne and spend more focussed time with him; reduce/eliminate his time put away in the bedroom; give treats for both even if he is hiding in the bathroom during treat sessions (and they aren't seeing each other); and just keep going like that. Really focus on his confidence." - Exactly. Yes, try to keep things as "normal" for him as possible. I would say "eliminate" the time put away in the other bedroom. If he is in the bathroom that is fine, just give him his treats there. Let him know everything (and he) is ok. Yes, we just need to get him feeling more confident, more territorially secure and let him know she is not negative or a threat to him. He is acting like a normal resident and given his past I would say he is doing better (much better) than I would have thought given the past.

"I can do that!" - Great

" I definitely felt frustrated last night but...." - Oh yes. That is normal. I have been there.

"they were better before, so we can get there again. " - Absolutely. I am not worried.

"Michael felt bad about Hawthorne sneaking past him - he's not as vigilant as me, and doesn't always realize how fast the cats are." - He should not feel badly at all. It happens. It happens to experts. And given how they acted after it really was not a big deal (that is the cats telling us). That experience was a blips and nothing in the process. They actually handled it really well so that tells me they are more trusting than you may believe. IF there were real issues there would have been real obvious lingering issues. And there weren't.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Again, thank you for being so positive! Honestly, your support is helping me so much!

Also PS: no, we didn't do a formal introduction process many years ago with Hawthorne & my sister's cat Franklin. We kept them separate and then just introduced them. I don't think Franklin acted insecurely, per se, but then again I wasn't really paying attention. He is a very gentle cat and it's possible he seemed like the one to go after (Tennyson didn't put up with that). Hawthorne has always been anxious and with a tendency to being insecure/scared. So I knew this process would be challenging. I just didn't know we'd be adding in the moving and all that.

Sorry this posted while I was typing and didn't see it.

"Again, thank you for being so positive! " - You are welcome but I want you to know that I am only being positive because of what I am seeing. If the facts were different (negative) then it wouldn't be so positive. :/

"Honestly, your support is helping me so much!" - I am glad to hear that. People don't always realize that when we help on intros we actually help the cats and the humans. It is like anything the first time, having someone to share what is normal etc is incredibly helpful.

"Also PS: no, we didn't do a formal introduction process many years ago with Hawthorne & my sister's cat Franklin. We kept them separate and then just introduced them." - I didn't think so.

"I don't think Franklin acted insecurely, per se, but then again I wasn't really paying attention." - Yes, and it takes some experience to tell.

" He is a very gentle cat and it's possible he seemed like the one to go after (Tennyson didn't put up with that)." - Yes and that gentleness can be misinterpreted by other cats and humans. The fact Tennyson had the confidence to stand up to Hawthorne is why it worked most likely. I do think Florence will be helpful with that.

"Hawthorne has always been anxious and with a tendency to being insecure/scared." - Ok, I think I am seeing that. How old was he when you got him and where did you get him from? He might have had a tougher life before you got him.

"So I knew this process would be challenging." - Yes. I would call it normal. It really isn't anything out of the ordinary. I could give you a lot of examples of "challenging". I had someone who insisted on intro'ing cats after a serious fight to the death. THAT was challenging. So it is all perspective really.

" I just didn't know we'd be adding in the moving and all that. " - Moving is stressful in general for cats (all change really) and given Hawthorne's history I can see where he is impacted. We'll just try to keep it as "normal" for him as possible. Actually, given all the change, death of a loved one, new cat (threat), move (and all the human stress that comes with it) he is doing amazingly well with it. It could be way, way worse.

I am really not seeing or reading anything that causes me concern. It is a normal intro process really. I know you can't really understand but when all this is done I think you will understand better. I just got done with an intro that reminds me so much of your situation. All is going to end well.

 

[Furmama22]

Sorry this posted while I was typing and didn't see it.

"Again, thank you for being so positive! " - You are welcome but I want you to know that I am only being positive because of what I am seeing. If the facts were different (negative) then it wouldn't be so positive. :/

"Honestly, your support is helping me so much!" - I am glad to hear that. People don't always realize that when we help on intros we actually help the cats and the humans. It is like anything the first time, having someone to share what is normal etc is incredibly helpful.

"Also PS: no, we didn't do a formal introduction process many years ago with Hawthorne & my sister's cat Franklin. We kept them separate and then just introduced them." - I didn't think so.

"I don't think Franklin acted insecurely, per se, but then again I wasn't really paying attention." - Yes, and it takes some experience to tell.

" He is a very gentle cat and it's possible he seemed like the one to go after (Tennyson didn't put up with that)." - Yes and that gentleness can be misinterpreted by other cats and humans. The fact Tennyson had the confidence to stand up to Hawthorne is why it worked most likely. I do think Florence will be helpful with that.

"Hawthorne has always been anxious and with a tendency to being insecure/scared." - Ok, I think I am seeing that. How old was he when you got him and where did you get him from? He might have had a tougher life before you got him.

"So I knew this process would be challenging." - Yes. I would call it normal. It really isn't anything out of the ordinary. I could give you a lot of examples of "challenging". I had someone who insisted on intro'ing cats after a serious fight to the death. THAT was challenging. So it is all perspective really.

" I just didn't know we'd be adding in the moving and all that. " - Moving is stressful in general for cats (all change really) and given Hawthorne's history I can see where he is impacted. We'll just try to keep it as "normal" for him as possible. Actually, given all the change, death of a loved one, new cat (threat), move (and all the human stress that comes with it) he is doing amazingly well with it. It could be way, way worse.

I am really not seeing or reading anything that causes me concern. It is a normal intro process really. I know you can't really understand but when all this is done I think you will understand better. I just got done with an intro that reminds me so much of your situation. All is going to end well.

Hi C calicosrspecial ! Just wanted to check-in. I hope you are doing well!

Things are holding steady here - still doing a few treat times per day and trying to spend quality time with both. Hawthorne has been a bit better having some play time and a bit more attention. I'm really trying to pay attention too to the times he is too worked up and then we hold off on treats until he's calmer.

We move on Monday, so the cats go to my mom's for the day (to be safe) and then I'll get their rooms set up and they'll come to the new house. They each get a bedroom set up with their stuff - Hawthorne in our bedroom and Florie in another one.

We will still have a painter there and some other people in and out, so I was planning to keep them in their rooms (with lots of visits and time) for those first few days. Then, I'll start letting them out for some supervised explore time. I'll take some videos too so you can see and assess how they are doing.

How long will it take until they start to view it as 'their territory'? Do we have a limited time window to get them settled and then pick up the introductions again before the new house stops being a neutral territory?

Curious for your thoughts, and if you have any ideas on how to start dividing up the time once they do start to come out of the room.

Thanks so much! Have a wonderful weekend.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hi C calicosrspecial ! Just wanted to check-in. I hope you are doing well!

Things are holding steady here - still doing a few treat times per day and trying to spend quality time with both. Hawthorne has been a bit better having some play time and a bit more attention. I'm really trying to pay attention too to the times he is too worked up and then we hold off on treats until he's calmer.

We move on Monday, so the cats go to my mom's for the day (to be safe) and then I'll get their rooms set up and they'll come to the new house. They each get a bedroom set up with their stuff - Hawthorne in our bedroom and Florie in another one.

We will still have a painter there and some other people in and out, so I was planning to keep them in their rooms (with lots of visits and time) for those first few days. Then, I'll start letting them out for some supervised explore time. I'll take some videos too so you can see and assess how they are doing.

How long will it take until they start to view it as 'their territory'? Do we have a limited time window to get them settled and then pick up the introductions again before the new house stops being a neutral territory?

Curious for your thoughts, and if you have any ideas on how to start dividing up the time once they do start to come out of the room.

Thanks so much! Have a wonderful weekend.

Great to hear from you. I couldn't wait. I know it is busy with the move. Exciting.

"Things are holding steady here - still doing a few treat times per day and trying to spend quality time with both." - Perfect

" Hawthorne has been a bit better having some play time and a bit more attention." - GREAT!!! THAT is great to hear!!!

" I'm really trying to pay attention too to the times he is too worked up and then we hold off on treats until he's calmer." - Perfect, to try to make it as positive as possible.

"We move on Monday," - Exciting

" so the cats go to my mom's for the day (to be safe) and then I'll get their rooms set up and they'll come to the new house." - Perfect

" They each get a bedroom set up with their stuff - Hawthorne in our bedroom and Florie in another one." Awwwwwwww. Will Hawthorne have access to the whole house as well?

"We will still have a painter there and some other people in and out, so I was planning to keep them in their rooms (with lots of visits and time) for those first few days." - Ahhhh, yes. With workers it is best to keep them contained to help them not be too stressed. Yes, just visit, spend time, give treats, tell them it is ok, etc.

We'll see how they are doing with all the change.

" Then, I'll start letting them out for some supervised explore time. " - Perfect

"I'll take some videos too so you can see and assess how they are doing." - Great, that will be helpful.

"How long will it take until they start to view it as 'their territory'?" - It really depends. In rooms without their stuff from the old house a while. And we'll see how much rubbing on things they do, etc.

" Do we have a limited time window to get them settled" - No, not limited. We'll just go at their pace. The key is to make them feel like everything is as positive as possible, that they are safe, well taken care of, etc. So even IF (and it would not be this long) it would take a month for some reason that would not be an issue.

"and then pick up the introductions again before the new house stops being a neutral territory?" - We'll pick up the intros probably fairly soon but we'll just see how they are doing. But I am not worried about the timing at all.

"Curious for your thoughts, and if you have any ideas on how to start dividing up the time once they do start to come out of the room." - Well, it will all be about making Hawthorne feel as good as possible. He is the key. Florence will be just fine in adjusting. So we'll want to get Hawthorne feeling secure, on a routine, having his stuff around, safe, etc. And as he is more secure and confident he will accept better.

So it will depend on how Hawthorne is acting in his room. If he is doing well then we'll use the rest of the house as a site swapping area. BUT I suspect he might taste the freedom and want out of the bedroom permanently. I suspect Florence might be a bit better going back in her room. So we may have to let Hawthorne out in the rest of the house and do intros near her room. But we'll see. With cats the best plans always change. I have ideas of how it will work but we'll see. How Hawthorne acts will tell us so much. I will say, I don't expect anything out of the ordinary or anything we can't handle. I just don't see the worrying body language etc previously and as long as Hawthorne does pretty well in the move the move should be a net positive.

I love to hear Hawthorne might be responding to the changes and acting a little better (great sign) so let me know how he does during and after the move and we'll go from there.

Congratulations on your new house!!! Have a great (I know busy) weekend and talk soon. Please ask anything if I haven't answered well enough.

Thanks so much! Have a wonderful weekend.

 

[Furmama22]

Great to hear from you. I couldn't wait. I know it is busy with the move. Exciting.

"Things are holding steady here - still doing a few treat times per day and trying to spend quality time with both." - Perfect

" Hawthorne has been a bit better having some play time and a bit more attention." - GREAT!!! THAT is great to hear!!!

" I'm really trying to pay attention too to the times he is too worked up and then we hold off on treats until he's calmer." - Perfect, to try to make it as positive as possible.

"We move on Monday," - Exciting

" so the cats go to my mom's for the day (to be safe) and then I'll get their rooms set up and they'll come to the new house." - Perfect

" They each get a bedroom set up with their stuff - Hawthorne in our bedroom and Florie in another one." Awwwwwwww. Will Hawthorne have access to the whole house as well?

"We will still have a painter there and some other people in and out, so I was planning to keep them in their rooms (with lots of visits and time) for those first few days." - Ahhhh, yes. With workers it is best to keep them contained to help them not be too stressed. Yes, just visit, spend time, give treats, tell them it is ok, etc.

We'll see how they are doing with all the change.

" Then, I'll start letting them out for some supervised explore time. " - Perfect

"I'll take some videos too so you can see and assess how they are doing." - Great, that will be helpful.

"How long will it take until they start to view it as 'their territory'?" - It really depends. In rooms without their stuff from the old house a while. And we'll see how much rubbing on things they do, etc.

" Do we have a limited time window to get them settled" - No, not limited. We'll just go at their pace. The key is to make them feel like everything is as positive as possible, that they are safe, well taken care of, etc. So even IF (and it would not be this long) it would take a month for some reason that would not be an issue.

"and then pick up the introductions again before the new house stops being a neutral territory?" - We'll pick up the intros probably fairly soon but we'll just see how they are doing. But I am not worried about the timing at all.

"Curious for your thoughts, and if you have any ideas on how to start dividing up the time once they do start to come out of the room." - Well, it will all be about making Hawthorne feel as good as possible. He is the key. Florence will be just fine in adjusting. So we'll want to get Hawthorne feeling secure, on a routine, having his stuff around, safe, etc. And as he is more secure and confident he will accept better.

So it will depend on how Hawthorne is acting in his room. If he is doing well then we'll use the rest of the house as a site swapping area. BUT I suspect he might taste the freedom and want out of the bedroom permanently. I suspect Florence might be a bit better going back in her room. So we may have to let Hawthorne out in the rest of the house and do intros near her room. But we'll see. With cats the best plans always change. I have ideas of how it will work but we'll see. How Hawthorne acts will tell us so much. I will say, I don't expect anything out of the ordinary or anything we can't handle. I just don't see the worrying body language etc previously and as long as Hawthorne does pretty well in the move the move should be a net positive.

I love to hear Hawthorne might be responding to the changes and acting a little better (great sign) so let me know how he does during and after the move and we'll go from there.

Congratulations on your new house!!! Have a great (I know busy) weekend and talk soon. Please ask anything if I haven't answered well enough.

Thanks so much! Have a wonderful weekend.

Thanks so much for this info! This is great. We move tomorrow and it'll be a day or so before we have internet again but I'll update as soon as possible. Just wanted to say thank you for this!!

Talk soon!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thanks so much for this info! This is great. We move tomorrow and it'll be a day or so before we have internet again but I'll update as soon as possible. Just wanted to say thank you for this!!

Talk soon!

You are welcome.

Good luck on the move.

Once we see how Hawthorne is acting we can figure out the right path.

Congratulations on your new home!!!

 

[Furmama22]

You are welcome.

Good luck on the move.

Once we see how Hawthorne is acting we can figure out the right path.

Congratulations on your new home!!!

Hi C calicosrspecial ! Hope you're having a great week! Thank you for the congratulations! We are in the new house now, in the process of getting things unpacked and organized and, of course, in the process of getting the cats settled.

So far the cats are doing well - Hawthorne is in the master bedroom (where we are sleeping) and he has his cat tree, bed, scratchers, blankets, etc. All of his 'smell' stuff. And Florence is in the study/spare bedroom, with all of her stuff - tree, bed, blankets, etc. Both have a HUGE window to look out of with lots of trees and squirrels and birds.

So far, except for Florence slipping out of the pet gate once, they are both still exclusively in their bedrooms. And, all eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping are in working order, hahaha.

Hawthorne is doing well. He cries a fair amount in his room but that's because he wants me to be with him. When I join him, he settles right down and has a nap on the bed on one of his blankets. He has been quite affectionate and purr-y, which is nice. He is obviously happy to see me and spend time together. He has been curious about the world beyond the pet gate but is pretty easily convinced that the bedroom is good for now. He has been FAR less restless than at our old house where he would pace and pace and not relax in his bedroom. So I guess that's the effect of this not being 'territory' just yet.

Florence is doing pretty well although I can tell she is anxious. She is very clingy and affectionate when I join her in her room (just like she was at the shelter - when she feels more confident she is still affectionate but it's much calmer) and spends a lot of time sleeping under her fuzzy blanket. She slipped out once and made it into a another bedroom before I grabbed her and is obviously a bit curious about the world beyond. I'm giving her a bit of lysine gel to help avoid any virus flare-ups. So I think she is ok but anxious about this change, especially coming on the heels of joining our home only 5 months ago.

We'll start letting them both explore by the weekend, maybe, once things are tidied up and the painter is done for the week.

Do you have any recommendations about that? I was just going to let them each explore the main level for now, for maybe a half hour or an hour, and then go from there.

The set-up in the new house does not allow for the double gate system. She can still squeeze through the bars of her gate so I might need to look into something to solve that.

So far they can hear each other because their bedrooms are close but they haven't seen each other.

Anyways, sorry, long update! That's where we are right now.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hi C calicosrspecial ! Hope you're having a great week! Thank you for the congratulations! We are in the new house now, in the process of getting things unpacked and organized and, of course, in the process of getting the cats settled.

So far the cats are doing well - Hawthorne is in the master bedroom (where we are sleeping) and he has his cat tree, bed, scratchers, blankets, etc. All of his 'smell' stuff. And Florence is in the study/spare bedroom, with all of her stuff - tree, bed, blankets, etc. Both have a HUGE window to look out of with lots of trees and squirrels and birds.

So far, except for Florence slipping out of the pet gate once, they are both still exclusively in their bedrooms. And, all eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping are in working order, hahaha.

Hawthorne is doing well. He cries a fair amount in his room but that's because he wants me to be with him. When I join him, he settles right down and has a nap on the bed on one of his blankets. He has been quite affectionate and purr-y, which is nice. He is obviously happy to see me and spend time together. He has been curious about the world beyond the pet gate but is pretty easily convinced that the bedroom is good for now. He has been FAR less restless than at our old house where he would pace and pace and not relax in his bedroom. So I guess that's the effect of this not being 'territory' just yet.

Florence is doing pretty well although I can tell she is anxious. She is very clingy and affectionate when I join her in her room (just like she was at the shelter - when she feels more confident she is still affectionate but it's much calmer) and spends a lot of time sleeping under her fuzzy blanket. She slipped out once and made it into a another bedroom before I grabbed her and is obviously a bit curious about the world beyond. I'm giving her a bit of lysine gel to help avoid any virus flare-ups. So I think she is ok but anxious about this change, especially coming on the heels of joining our home only 5 months ago.

We'll start letting them both explore by the weekend, maybe, once things are tidied up and the painter is done for the week.

Do you have any recommendations about that? I was just going to let them each explore the main level for now, for maybe a half hour or an hour, and then go from there.

The set-up in the new house does not allow for the double gate system. She can still squeeze through the bars of her gate so I might need to look into something to solve that.

So far they can hear each other because their bedrooms are close but they haven't seen each other.

Anyways, sorry, long update! That's where we are right now.

Wonderful!!! It sounds like you are so excited and loving your new home.

"So far the cats are doing well" Great

" - Hawthorne is in the master bedroom (where we are sleeping) and he has his cat tree, bed, scratchers, blankets, etc. All of his 'smell' stuff." - Perfect. Having all the same "stuff" he "owns" helps in the transition.

"And Florence is in the study/spare bedroom, with all of her stuff - tree, bed, blankets, etc. " - Perfect

"Both have a HUGE window to look out of with lots of trees and squirrels and birds." -

"So far, except for Florence slipping out of the pet gate once, they are both still exclusively in their bedrooms." - That is fine.

"And, all eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping are in working order, hahaha. " - Great. How are they acting? Walking around? A little caution or like normal?

"Hawthorne is doing well." - Great

" He cries a fair amount in his room but that's because he wants me to be with him." - Makes sense. The change is unsettling so you reassuring, loving him helps him know everything is ok.

"When I join him, he settles right down and has a nap on the bed on one of his blankets." - Perfect

" He has been quite affectionate and purr-y, which is nice." - yes, they will do that because of the change and uncertainty. So reassuring that all is well is really important (as you are doing).

" He is obviously happy to see me and spend time together." -

"He has been curious about the world beyond the pet gate" - Oh yes. How is his body language when he does that?

" but is pretty easily convinced that the bedroom is good for now." - Good, let's keep an eye on him to make sure he is doing well. He is our main focus.

" He has been FAR less restless than at our old house where he would pace and pace and not relax in his bedroom. So I guess that's the effect of this not being 'territory' just yet." - Exactly. And when there is change and uncertainty like this they do tend to be less certain and therefore a bit more calm and less active. Keep an eye on his body language, how he acts etc as that will tell us how he is doing.

"Florence is doing pretty well although I can tell she is anxious." - That is normal and to be expected. Change is hard. But reassure her, give her treats, love etc and let her know all is ok.

" She is very clingy and affectionate when I join her in her room (just like she was at the shelter - when she feels more confident she is still affectionate but it's much calmer)" - Totally normal and expected.

" and spends a lot of time sleeping under her fuzzy blanket." - Yes, suggest she might be a little unsure BUT just let her know all is ok and she will adjust. We'll watch how she does.

" She slipped out once and made it into a another bedroom before I grabbed her and is obviously a bit curious about the world beyond. " - That is fine.

"I'm giving her a bit of lysine gel to help avoid any virus flare-ups." - Ok, does she get things?

" So I think she is ok but anxious about this change, especially coming on the heels of joining our home only 5 months ago." - Yes, that is normal. I thought she might do a bit better BUT it is still early. Jsut reassure her and give her food and love and let's see how she is doing.

"We'll start letting them both explore by the weekend, maybe, once things are tidied up and the painter is done for the week." - I think that is a good idea. Use food, use a toy to play and build confidence. Have some things around with their scent on (like old shirts, etc) so they can feel like "this is home". Watch their body language etc. It will tell us a lot about where they are.

"Do you have any recommendations about that? I was just going to let them each explore the main level for now, for maybe a half hour or an hour, and then go from there." - So use treats, food, a toy (after play feed), get those shirts with their scent on them and put them around. Hopefully the furniture is from the other house and that will have scent on it. And just watch their body language and reassure. Just let it go as long as it is positive. Also, try to have someone in with the other cat while the other is out and about.

"The set-up in the new house does not allow for the double gate system. She can still squeeze through the bars of her gate so I might need to look into something to solve that." - Ok. I am wondering if we will need it. Let's see.

"So far they can hear each other because their bedrooms are close but they haven't seen each other." - Ok. You might want to do some scent swapping (old shirts) so they can smell the other one a bit better.

And just keep reassuring them, try to get them to play, then feed, use treats, hang out and give some love (safely). Let them know all is just fine.

"Anyways, sorry, long update! " - Oh my, no need to apologize AND that wasn't long at all!!

"That's where we are right now. " - Sounds really good!!!

Let me know their body language etc and ask anything. Will be interesting to see how they do exploring. I would keep the door closed to the other cat's room and distract them from that door with a toy or treats.

I am sure you are tired, a bit stressed and excited with the new home. Try to stay as calm and confident around the cats as possible and try to let them know all is ok.

 

[Furmama22]

Wonderful!!! It sounds like you are so excited and loving your new home.

"So far the cats are doing well" Great

" - Hawthorne is in the master bedroom (where we are sleeping) and he has his cat tree, bed, scratchers, blankets, etc. All of his 'smell' stuff." - Perfect. Having all the same "stuff" he "owns" helps in the transition.

"And Florence is in the study/spare bedroom, with all of her stuff - tree, bed, blankets, etc. " - Perfect

"Both have a HUGE window to look out of with lots of trees and squirrels and birds." -

"So far, except for Florence slipping out of the pet gate once, they are both still exclusively in their bedrooms." - That is fine.

"And, all eating, drinking, peeing, and pooping are in working order, hahaha. " - Great. How are they acting? Walking around? A little caution or like normal?

"Hawthorne is doing well." - Great

" He cries a fair amount in his room but that's because he wants me to be with him." - Makes sense. The change is unsettling so you reassuring, loving him helps him know everything is ok.

"When I join him, he settles right down and has a nap on the bed on one of his blankets." - Perfect

" He has been quite affectionate and purr-y, which is nice." - yes, they will do that because of the change and uncertainty. So reassuring that all is well is really important (as you are doing).

" He is obviously happy to see me and spend time together." -

"He has been curious about the world beyond the pet gate" - Oh yes. How is his body language when he does that?

" but is pretty easily convinced that the bedroom is good for now." - Good, let's keep an eye on him to make sure he is doing well. He is our main focus.

" He has been FAR less restless than at our old house where he would pace and pace and not relax in his bedroom. So I guess that's the effect of this not being 'territory' just yet." - Exactly. And when there is change and uncertainty like this they do tend to be less certain and therefore a bit more calm and less active. Keep an eye on his body language, how he acts etc as that will tell us how he is doing.

"Florence is doing pretty well although I can tell she is anxious." - That is normal and to be expected. Change is hard. But reassure her, give her treats, love etc and let her know all is ok.

" She is very clingy and affectionate when I join her in her room (just like she was at the shelter - when she feels more confident she is still affectionate but it's much calmer)" - Totally normal and expected.

" and spends a lot of time sleeping under her fuzzy blanket." - Yes, suggest she might be a little unsure BUT just let her know all is ok and she will adjust. We'll watch how she does.

" She slipped out once and made it into a another bedroom before I grabbed her and is obviously a bit curious about the world beyond. " - That is fine.

"I'm giving her a bit of lysine gel to help avoid any virus flare-ups." - Ok, does she get things?

" So I think she is ok but anxious about this change, especially coming on the heels of joining our home only 5 months ago." - Yes, that is normal. I thought she might do a bit better BUT it is still early. Jsut reassure her and give her food and love and let's see how she is doing.

"We'll start letting them both explore by the weekend, maybe, once things are tidied up and the painter is done for the week." - I think that is a good idea. Use food, use a toy to play and build confidence. Have some things around with their scent on (like old shirts, etc) so they can feel like "this is home". Watch their body language etc. It will tell us a lot about where they are.

"Do you have any recommendations about that? I was just going to let them each explore the main level for now, for maybe a half hour or an hour, and then go from there." - So use treats, food, a toy (after play feed), get those shirts with their scent on them and put them around. Hopefully the furniture is from the other house and that will have scent on it. And just watch their body language and reassure. Just let it go as long as it is positive. Also, try to have someone in with the other cat while the other is out and about.

"The set-up in the new house does not allow for the double gate system. She can still squeeze through the bars of her gate so I might need to look into something to solve that." - Ok. I am wondering if we will need it. Let's see.

"So far they can hear each other because their bedrooms are close but they haven't seen each other." - Ok. You might want to do some scent swapping (old shirts) so they can smell the other one a bit better.

And just keep reassuring them, try to get them to play, then feed, use treats, hang out and give some love (safely). Let them know all is just fine.

"Anyways, sorry, long update! " - Oh my, no need to apologize AND that wasn't long at all!!

"That's where we are right now. " - Sounds really good!!!

Let me know their body language etc and ask anything. Will be interesting to see how they do exploring. I would keep the door closed to the other cat's room and distract them from that door with a toy or treats.

I am sure you are tired, a bit stressed and excited with the new home. Try to stay as calm and confident around the cats as possible and try to let them know all is ok.

Hello!! Yes definitely tired and stressed - I forgot how fatiguing moving can be. This is why people move and then say "we're never moving again," hahaha.

Just a quick update - I wasn't able to take any videos but basically both cats seem well. I let them out (alternating) starting Friday evening and have just been switching back and forth for both for Saturday and Sunday. Both are obviously still curious/have slightly anxious body language. That said, Hawthorne took a long nap in his bed (in the living room) and a longer one on the sofa (with some grooming), so he's starting to feel a bit more comfortable. He is also using his scratching post and ready to play a bit. He follows me if I go into the basement or somewhere 'away' but he otherwise does his own thing in the main living area. He also cries most of the time now when he is in his room away from us/the main area. So, back to same old, same old.

Florence is starting to eat and play outside of the room. She hasn't taken any naps yet or done any 'relaxing.' She rubs everything with her face and mostly has the happy, upright tail. She is obviously still most relaxed in her room - we spend time together in there too, watching some movies. She also is doing her 'scratching' of the sofa (she has no front claws so there isn't much she can do) and using the scratching post too.

She occasionally goes to sit outside of Hawthorne's (closed) door while he's in there and occasionally does the growl/hiss. Hawthorne stopped outside of her (closed) door once and she growled and he did his snorting/huffing thing. So we're not worse than before, hahaha. About the same, it seems. From what I can tell.

I've also done a little scent swapping with a Tshirt and a blanket.

Tomorrow I was going to start room swapping, so that I have one in my office for the morning and then they switch - so each gets half the day with me. Do you think that's a good idea?

Hope all is well! I'll try to take videos soon.

 

[Furmama22]

Also I know you suggested having someone in with one cat while the other is out but at this point, while Michael is willing to help in some ways, it's kind of a one-person show - so one of them has to be away (and alone) while the other is out.