Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

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"I think it is definitely possible Hawthorne senses the energy of the house - lots of activity, things changing locations, furniture disappearing, etc." - Agreed. Cats are creatures of habit, don't like change. So any changes in territory, emotions, etc can put them on edge.

"So far in terms of the moving, we spent one hour at my mom's on Monday evening (and today is Saturday)." - OK. It probably is te other stuff (emotions, getting ready for the listing, etc) that is causing some unease. They are very perceptive.

" But in about a week, we go there for five days. So I know more things will be unsettled, plus in the next week we're painting and so on to get the house ready to sell, and someone will be coming to replace some floors - so lots going on." - Yes, given that I suspect Hawthorne will be struggling a bit. So just try to make him as happy as possible, try to keep to play and feeding routines. And keep any interactions between them short (or even if you sense anxiety hold off). And when things settle down we can get back to it. Just try to make Hawthorne's life as "normal" as possible and spend some extra time and attention on him if possible.

"You're absolutely right, I should have held off letting them be at the gate given his mood. I had grown so confident that he would be tentative that I thought it would be ok, and then suddenly he was not so tentative. :)" - That is fine we only know after. It is not a big deal so no need to worry.

"He's had a lot to contend with in the last six months - my other cat passing away, then a new cat showing up, and now 'moving type' activities. So, I'm trying to be patient. :)" - Yes, but he is going to be fine and Florence is going to be a positive for him (as wil the new house). He has been through a lot BUT cats are resilient. He is going to be just fine.

"And lastly, you'd asked about how long for recovery - what do I look for in that regard?" - A return to "normal" defined by body language, not avoiding certain areas, eating normal, etc.

"I would say within five minutes both were able to lie down and settle," - OK, great. That is really good.

" BUT, it's now 10 hours later and she is still growling at him much more and from a much greater distance." - Yes, that will happen but as she sees him behaving it will give her confidence all is well.

"And they briefly encountered each other a little while ago at the gate (she slipped out while I was going into the room)" - SO they had no barrier between them?

" and she kind of froze and tried to retreat very very slowly." - That is fine, she was telling him she doesn't mean any harm or threat. It is actually great.

Did he attack her at all? How was his body language?

"In the past, she had a lot more confidence about it." - Yes BUT she did the exact right thing to tell him she doesn't mean harm or to be a threat. I am not at all bothered by that.

"I think his pissy behaviour this morning surprised her too." - I am sure it did. BUT it sounds like it was really nothing more than a blip. I don't get a sense it is anything really.

This was a test and they actually did pretty well. I don't think is an issue at all. We are going to be just fine.
THANK YOU!!! :)

And sorry if it was unclear - they did NOT meet with no barrier. They met at gate #2 (she slipped beyond gate #1). She basically froze as soon as she saw him and slowly backed away.

I think your advice is very very wise - for now, just make them both individually as happy and comfortable as possible, and return to the intro after some of this settles a bit.

I think that is a plan that works for all of us, because doing all the house stuff AND the cat stuff is too much. Better for me too to just spend time with each and know we can work on the intro again later. :)
 

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THANK YOU!!! :)

And sorry if it was unclear - they did NOT meet with no barrier. They met at gate #2 (she slipped beyond gate #1). She basically froze as soon as she saw him and slowly backed away.

I think your advice is very very wise - for now, just make them both individually as happy and comfortable as possible, and return to the intro after some of this settles a bit.

I think that is a plan that works for all of us, because doing all the house stuff AND the cat stuff is too much. Better for me too to just spend time with each and know we can work on the intro again later. :)
You are welcome.

"And sorry if it was unclear - they did NOT meet with no barrier. They met at gate #2 (she slipped beyond gate #1). She basically froze as soon as she saw him and slowly backed away." - No need to be sorry. That is why there are two gates. ;) Yes, her reaction is fine.

What did he do when he saw her at the second gate?

"I think your advice is very very wise - for now, just make them both individually as happy and comfortable as possible, and return to the intro after some of this settles a bit." - Well, it is the safe choice. I am a big believer in avoiding negativity so reducing the risk is usually my choice when the odds are higher of negativity.

"I think that is a plan that works for all of us, because doing all the house stuff AND the cat stuff is too much. Better for me too to just spend time with each and know we can work on the intro again later. :) " - Yes, and reducing human stress is important as cats take on our (humans) emotions. It is a lot to go through and a little delay is not going to be an issue really. Our goal is to have as positive encounters between them as possible so doing it when the probability is highest is best.

I am not at all worried, they will be intro'd. Just take care of the house stuff, try to spend some time to keep them in a "normal" routine, and let them know they are loved.

Just post when you have time and let us know if you have any questions, etc.
 
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You are welcome.

"And sorry if it was unclear - they did NOT meet with no barrier. They met at gate #2 (she slipped beyond gate #1). She basically froze as soon as she saw him and slowly backed away." - No need to be sorry. That is why there are two gates. ;) Yes, her reaction is fine.

What did he do when he saw her at the second gate?

"I think your advice is very very wise - for now, just make them both individually as happy and comfortable as possible, and return to the intro after some of this settles a bit." - Well, it is the safe choice. I am a big believer in avoiding negativity so reducing the risk is usually my choice when the odds are higher of negativity.

"I think that is a plan that works for all of us, because doing all the house stuff AND the cat stuff is too much. Better for me too to just spend time with each and know we can work on the intro again later. :) " - Yes, and reducing human stress is important as cats take on our (humans) emotions. It is a lot to go through and a little delay is not going to be an issue really. Our goal is to have as positive encounters between them as possible so doing it when the probability is highest is best.

I am not at all worried, they will be intro'd. Just take care of the house stuff, try to spend some time to keep them in a "normal" routine, and let them know they are loved.

Just post when you have time and let us know if you have any questions, etc.
I will do, thank you!!

And his reaction when he saw her at the second gate was to try to bop her through the gate again. :)
 

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I will do, thank you!!

And his reaction when he saw her at the second gate was to try to bop her through the gate again. :)
"And his reaction when he saw her at the second gate was to try to bop her through the gate again. :) " - Like he normally does? No more intense or anything? If it was like always then it was back to normal which is actually good.

Learning experiences like what happened can actually advance the process if you can believe it. When it doesn't reach a heightened level it can actually set a boundary and let them know that the other cat has a boundary which can be very positive. We'll see over the next few days/weeks.
 
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"And his reaction when he saw her at the second gate was to try to bop her through the gate again. :) " - Like he normally does? No more intense or anything? If it was like always then it was back to normal which is actually good.

Learning experiences like what happened can actually advance the process if you can believe it. When it doesn't reach a heightened level it can actually set a boundary and let them know that the other cat has a boundary which can be very positive. We'll see over the next few days/weeks.
That's a very interesting idea - about a potential negative experience being a learning experience that advances the process.

We were doing really well, so much so that I had contemplated the cats having a face-to-face, but then all of this activity happened with the house and now it feels as though they have regressed a bit - she's extra growly but still fairly easy to distract (unless she wants out of the room in which case she is very focussed) and he is extra-interested and harder to distract - he's doing more staring and his body language sometimes has that look that is a bit scared (like when a cat is approaching something it is uncertain about) and a bit aggressive (like he used to do before jumping on my other cat Tennyson). I've attached a photo that kind of captures the look .I just took this from the internet - it's not actually Hawthorne (both are indoor-only cats).He sometimes does this at the gate.Other times he leaves the gate and lies down somewhere nearby out of sight, like in the bathroom or in the hallway, where he isn't in direct sight but will come running up as soon as he hears me at the pet gate.

cat body language.PNG
I think my partner is getting a bit tired of the whole process. He is hoping they can be intro'd before we move to the new house (mid-March). But I'm thinking for the next three weeks at least (one week here, one week at my mom's, then another week to settle back in here) we should continue status quo.

Can I just ask for your thoughts on what I should be doing now? I'm still trying to let them see each other a few times per day (with the two pet gates in place) for an hour or so and we try for a positive session once or twice per day with treats. Should I be amending that approach? What would be best?
 
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"And his reaction when he saw her at the second gate was to try to bop her through the gate again. :) " - Like he normally does? No more intense or anything? If it was like always then it was back to normal which is actually good.

Learning experiences like what happened can actually advance the process if you can believe it. When it doesn't reach a heightened level it can actually set a boundary and let them know that the other cat has a boundary which can be very positive. We'll see over the next few days/weeks.
Also, I would say his reaction at the gate seems a bit more intense - all of his behaviour seems a bit more intense again now.
 

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That's a very interesting idea - about a potential negative experience being a learning experience that advances the process.

We were doing really well, so much so that I had contemplated the cats having a face-to-face, but then all of this activity happened with the house and now it feels as though they have regressed a bit - she's extra growly but still fairly easy to distract (unless she wants out of the room in which case she is very focussed) and he is extra-interested and harder to distract - he's doing more staring and his body language sometimes has that look that is a bit scared (like when a cat is approaching something it is uncertain about) and a bit aggressive (like he used to do before jumping on my other cat Tennyson). I've attached a photo that kind of captures the look .I just took this from the internet - it's not actually Hawthorne (both are indoor-only cats).He sometimes does this at the gate.Other times he leaves the gate and lies down somewhere nearby out of sight, like in the bathroom or in the hallway, where he isn't in direct sight but will come running up as soon as he hears me at the pet gate.

View attachment 367847
I think my partner is getting a bit tired of the whole process. He is hoping they can be intro'd before we move to the new house (mid-March). But I'm thinking for the next three weeks at least (one week here, one week at my mom's, then another week to settle back in here) we should continue status quo.

Can I just ask for your thoughts on what I should be doing now? I'm still trying to let them see each other a few times per day (with the two pet gates in place) for an hour or so and we try for a positive session once or twice per day with treats. Should I be amending that approach? What would be best?
"We were doing really well, so much so that I had contemplated the cats having a face-to-face, but then all of this activity happened with the house and now it feels as though they have regressed a bit -

"she's extra growly" - That in isolation is not that concerning. Hissing/growling is communication so it is the reaction that matters. If he respects it rather than escalates or acts scared then it is not a big deal and can actually help the process.

"but still fairly easy to distract" - THAT is great. IF there were real issues it would be nearly impossible to distract.

" (unless she wants out of the room in which case she is very focussed)" - And if she really feared him she wouldn't want to get out.

"and he is extra-interested and harder to distract - he's doing more staring and his body language sometimes has that look that is a bit scared (like when a cat is approaching something it is uncertain about) and a bit aggressive (like he used to do before jumping on my other cat Tennyson)." - Ok. That is expected. Does he act normal when he is away from the gate, etc?

"I've attached a photo that kind of captures the look .I just took this from the internet - it's not actually Hawthorne (both are indoor-only cats).He sometimes does this at the gate." - Ok, difficult to know but again it is how they act after and if there is real negativity, etc. So if all it is a body language then if it doesn't lead to a real negative encounter then it is fine.

"Other times he leaves the gate and lies down somewhere nearby out of sight, like in the bathroom or in the hallway, where he isn't in direct sight but will come running up as soon as he hears me at the pet gate." - And does he seem "normal"? If so, that is great.

"I think my partner is getting a bit tired of the whole process." - Yes, they usually do.

" He is hoping they can be intro'd before we move to the new house (mid-March)." - Totally and let's work to that goal. There is a lot of change going on (which causes stress) so we need to play it day by day. But I would continue on the basic fundamentals - Positive associations and positive encounters while avoiding or minimizing negative encounters and continuing to build confidence via Play, Food, Height and Love with each in their own territories. Continue scent swapping as well.

"But I'm thinking for the next three weeks at least (one week here, one week at my mom's, then another week to settle back in here) we should continue status quo." - Yes, just continue doing the above. If you sense they are stressed then just hold off. It is all about quality over quantity.

"Can I just ask for your thoughts on what I should be doing now?" - The above gate sessions and building confidence.

" I'm still trying to let them see each other a few times per day (with the two pet gates in place) for an hour or so and we try for a positive session once or twice per day with treats. Should I be amending that approach? What would be best? " - I would continue doing that, making sure it is positive, distracting as needed, reassuring them during the session. It doesn't have to be for an hour. If it is positive for 15 minutes it s good and better than positive for 45 minutes but the last 15 being negative.

And given the move etc if the humans are feeling stress then just hold off on a session as the cats will pick up on that stress and therefore be more likely to be on edge and therefore have a negative encounter.

"Also, I would say his reaction at the gate seems a bit more intense - all of his behaviour seems a bit more intense again now." - Ok, then try to reassure, distract and if he is still a bit more "intense" just end it and wait for a better time. So when is more relaxed, or more tired, or full of even hungry (so he focuses on the food). Just play it by ear to see what makes it most likely to have a positive encounter.

Let me know if I answered everything and it makes sense. It is more art than science so it is a bit nuanced. Just enjoy and love them and not worry too much. Just try to make their encounters as positive as possible and try as best to keep to a routine and let them know they are loved and have some fun with them even when they are not in a session.

Hang in there, we will get there.
 
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"We were doing really well, so much so that I had contemplated the cats having a face-to-face, but then all of this activity happened with the house and now it feels as though they have regressed a bit -

"she's extra growly" - That in isolation is not that concerning. Hissing/growling is communication so it is the reaction that matters. If he respects it rather than escalates or acts scared then it is not a big deal and can actually help the process.

"but still fairly easy to distract" - THAT is great. IF there were real issues it would be nearly impossible to distract.

" (unless she wants out of the room in which case she is very focussed)" - And if she really feared him she wouldn't want to get out.

"and he is extra-interested and harder to distract - he's doing more staring and his body language sometimes has that look that is a bit scared (like when a cat is approaching something it is uncertain about) and a bit aggressive (like he used to do before jumping on my other cat Tennyson)." - Ok. That is expected. Does he act normal when he is away from the gate, etc?

"I've attached a photo that kind of captures the look .I just took this from the internet - it's not actually Hawthorne (both are indoor-only cats).He sometimes does this at the gate." - Ok, difficult to know but again it is how they act after and if there is real negativity, etc. So if all it is a body language then if it doesn't lead to a real negative encounter then it is fine.

"Other times he leaves the gate and lies down somewhere nearby out of sight, like in the bathroom or in the hallway, where he isn't in direct sight but will come running up as soon as he hears me at the pet gate." - And does he seem "normal"? If so, that is great.

"I think my partner is getting a bit tired of the whole process." - Yes, they usually do.

" He is hoping they can be intro'd before we move to the new house (mid-March)." - Totally and let's work to that goal. There is a lot of change going on (which causes stress) so we need to play it day by day. But I would continue on the basic fundamentals - Positive associations and positive encounters while avoiding or minimizing negative encounters and continuing to build confidence via Play, Food, Height and Love with each in their own territories. Continue scent swapping as well.

"But I'm thinking for the next three weeks at least (one week here, one week at my mom's, then another week to settle back in here) we should continue status quo." - Yes, just continue doing the above. If you sense they are stressed then just hold off. It is all about quality over quantity.

"Can I just ask for your thoughts on what I should be doing now?" - The above gate sessions and building confidence.

" I'm still trying to let them see each other a few times per day (with the two pet gates in place) for an hour or so and we try for a positive session once or twice per day with treats. Should I be amending that approach? What would be best? " - I would continue doing that, making sure it is positive, distracting as needed, reassuring them during the session. It doesn't have to be for an hour. If it is positive for 15 minutes it s good and better than positive for 45 minutes but the last 15 being negative.

And given the move etc if the humans are feeling stress then just hold off on a session as the cats will pick up on that stress and therefore be more likely to be on edge and therefore have a negative encounter.

"Also, I would say his reaction at the gate seems a bit more intense - all of his behaviour seems a bit more intense again now." - Ok, then try to reassure, distract and if he is still a bit more "intense" just end it and wait for a better time. So when is more relaxed, or more tired, or full of even hungry (so he focuses on the food). Just play it by ear to see what makes it most likely to have a positive encounter.

Let me know if I answered everything and it makes sense. It is more art than science so it is a bit nuanced. Just enjoy and love them and not worry too much. Just try to make their encounters as positive as possible and try as best to keep to a routine and let them know they are loved and have some fun with them even when they are not in a session.

Hang in there, we will get there.
Thanks C calicosrspecial ! You always answer everything really well.

We're still doing a few treat sessions a day but they're short - like 5 minutes. I would say that the process seems a bit stalled right now - even like it has regressed a bit. Back to her hissing and his obnoxious curiousity.

But we're still deep in disruption - yesterday was kitchen flooring and appliance installations. Hawthorne had to spend much of the day in the bedroom and he never likes that. :) We go to my mom's in two days - on Monday. So I'm just following your advice - love them individually, spend time with each including playtime, and then when we're back in a week or so we'll return to active scent swapping and site swapping and all that stuff once they have settled back in. Of course then there is the final hurdle of moving in March (and packing), but there should be a period of calm in between (I hope! I could use it!). :)
 
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Also I wanted to add in terms of behaviour, I don't know that Hawthorne is always that good lately at respecting her hisses. I feel like he sometimes escalates it a little - pressing his face to the pet gate or yowling a bit. He doesn't seem to pause or slowly back away. But has been quite hyped up lately with all the change, so maybe I'll just see what all is calmer.
 

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Thanks C calicosrspecial ! You always answer everything really well.

We're still doing a few treat sessions a day but they're short - like 5 minutes. I would say that the process seems a bit stalled right now - even like it has regressed a bit. Back to her hissing and his obnoxious curiousity.

BWe're still doing a few treat sessions a day but they're short - like 5 minutes. I would say that the process seems a bit stalled right now - even like it has regressed a bit. Back to her hissing and his obnoxious curiousity.
I am so glad. Sometimes it is hard writing emotions and actions so I am glad I am somewhat able to communicate the thoughts.

"We're still doing a few treat sessions a day but they're short - like 5 minutes." - That is fine, quality over quantity.

"I would say that the process seems a bit stalled right now" - Stalled can actually be ingraining trust etc. So, it is like playing the same song on piano or doing the same dance. We do it to perfect though it may not always feel like progress.

" - even like it has regressed a bit. Back to her hissing and his obnoxious curiousity." - If that is all it is that is fine. Hissing is just communication and what happens after is key (different behavior, escalation, etc). Curiosity is normal.

"But we're still deep in disruption - yesterday was kitchen flooring and appliance installations. " - Yep but has to be done.

"Hawthorne had to spend much of the day in the bedroom and he never likes that. :) " - No, change is hard enough combined with territory being unavailable it can cause quite the issues. Just reassure him and try to make it as positive as possible.

"We go to my mom's in two days - on Monday. So I'm just following your advice - love them individually, spend time with each including playtime, and then when we're back in a week or so we'll return to active scent swapping and site swapping and all that stuff once they have settled back in." - GREAT!!

"Of course then there is the final hurdle of moving in March (and packing), but there should be a period of calm in between (I hope! I could use it!). :) " - Ys, a lot is going on and even without animals moving etc is stressful. But we'll handle it. We'll just do what we can at their pace. They are going to be fine, we'll probably have some ups and downs but they are in a good place and we can get through those.

"Also I wanted to add in terms of behaviour, I don't know that Hawthorne is always that good lately at respecting her hisses. I feel like he sometimes escalates it a little - pressing his face to the pet gate or yowling a bit." - Ok, a little isn't bad. Pressing his face to the gate is not a worry. Yowling is probably him talking back a bit. But if he isn't really going after her, etc and also acting very strangely after this stuff then it is just the normal working it out.

How is she responding to his actions? Pressing his face and yowling? Is she disturbed? Hiding, avoiding? Or like "whatever"?

He doesn't seem to pause or slowly back away. But has been quite hyped up lately with all the change, so maybe I'll just see what all is calmer.
 
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I am so glad. Sometimes it is hard writing emotions and actions so I am glad I am somewhat able to communicate the thoughts.

"We're still doing a few treat sessions a day but they're short - like 5 minutes." - That is fine, quality over quantity.

"I would say that the process seems a bit stalled right now" - Stalled can actually be ingraining trust etc. So, it is like playing the same song on piano or doing the same dance. We do it to perfect though it may not always feel like progress.

" - even like it has regressed a bit. Back to her hissing and his obnoxious curiousity." - If that is all it is that is fine. Hissing is just communication and what happens after is key (different behavior, escalation, etc). Curiosity is normal.

"But we're still deep in disruption - yesterday was kitchen flooring and appliance installations. " - Yep but has to be done.

"Hawthorne had to spend much of the day in the bedroom and he never likes that. :) " - No, change is hard enough combined with territory being unavailable it can cause quite the issues. Just reassure him and try to make it as positive as possible.

"We go to my mom's in two days - on Monday. So I'm just following your advice - love them individually, spend time with each including playtime, and then when we're back in a week or so we'll return to active scent swapping and site swapping and all that stuff once they have settled back in." - GREAT!!

"Of course then there is the final hurdle of moving in March (and packing), but there should be a period of calm in between (I hope! I could use it!). :) " - Ys, a lot is going on and even without animals moving etc is stressful. But we'll handle it. We'll just do what we can at their pace. They are going to be fine, we'll probably have some ups and downs but they are in a good place and we can get through those.

"Also I wanted to add in terms of behaviour, I don't know that Hawthorne is always that good lately at respecting her hisses. I feel like he sometimes escalates it a little - pressing his face to the pet gate or yowling a bit." - Ok, a little isn't bad. Pressing his face to the gate is not a worry. Yowling is probably him talking back a bit. But if he isn't really going after her, etc and also acting very strangely after this stuff then it is just the normal working it out.

How is she responding to his actions? Pressing his face and yowling? Is she disturbed? Hiding, avoiding? Or like "whatever"?

He doesn't seem to pause or slowly back away. But has been quite hyped up lately with all the change, so maybe I'll just see what all is calmer.
Hello C calicosrspecial and all! We survived the week of living at my mom's and are back home now. Our house has been sold!! Hurrah! So now we have about 5-6 weeks before we move to our new house. The cats both did really well at my mom's - I think they enjoyed having more space (I let them out for small supervised periods - not together, of course) and having lots of sunshine. My mom's house is very bright. They did not see each other for the six days at my mom's. They switched rooms but there was no visual access.

So now they are settling back into the home routine. I think initially it maybe smelled a bit weird in here (having so many people come in and view the house) but they seem to be back to regular now. I let them eat breakfast through the two pet gates for about 3 minutes this morning and that seemed fine. She hisses when she sees him; he's curious. Back to the usual.

What I'm wondering now is what next steps we take towards integration. I do truly think they'll each be happier at the new house - happier separately, and a greater chance for happier/neutral together - more room to do their own thing. But for now, we're in the space we're in. :)

I'm going to try to start doing more room swapping again or if not room swapping, scent swapping with blankets. And we'll do breakfast with visual access, and a treat time at night together with visual access. What other steps can I take to keep building some trust/positivity or at least, neutrality?

Other than packing, things should be relatively stable in the house for the next little while. A little less stressful energy. I hope that helps. :)

Hope you are all well!
 

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Hello C calicosrspecial and all! We survived the week of living at my mom's and are back home now. Our house has been sold!! Hurrah! So now we have about 5-6 weeks before we move to our new house. The cats both did really well at my mom's - I think they enjoyed having more space (I let them out for small supervised periods - not together, of course) and having lots of sunshine. My mom's house is very bright. They did not see each other for the six days at my mom's. They switched rooms but there was no visual access.

So now they are settling back into the home routine. I think initially it maybe smelled a bit weird in here (having so many people come in and view the house) but they seem to be back to regular now. I let them eat breakfast through the two pet gates for about 3 minutes this morning and that seemed fine. She hisses when she sees him; he's curious. Back to the usual.

What I'm wondering now is what next steps we take towards integration. I do truly think they'll each be happier at the new house - happier separately, and a greater chance for happier/neutral together - more room to do their own thing. But for now, we're in the space we're in. :)

I'm going to try to start doing more room swapping again or if not room swapping, scent swapping with blankets. And we'll do breakfast with visual access, and a treat time at night together with visual access. What other steps can I take to keep building some trust/positivity or at least, neutrality?

Other than packing, things should be relatively stable in the house for the next little while. A little less stressful energy. I hope that helps. :)

Hope you are all well!
Congratulations!!! That is wonderful.

I am so glad it went well at your mom's house.

"The cats both did really well at my mom's - I think they enjoyed having more space (I let them out for small supervised periods - not together, of course) and having lots of sunshine. My mom's house is very bright. They did not see each other for the six days at my mom's. They switched rooms but there was no visual access." - Ok, great. The goal was that they were acting as normal as possible and it sounds like they had a good time. Great job!!

"So now they are settling back into the home routine." - Great. Give ti a day then as long as they seem "normal" then go back to sessions. If you sense they are a little uneasy then just hold off until they seem settled.

" I think initially it maybe smelled a bit weird in here (having so many people come in and view the house) but they seem to be back to regular now." - great, that is normal.

" I let them eat breakfast through the two pet gates for about 3 minutes this morning and that seemed fine." - Ok, great.

" She hisses when she sees him; he's curious. Back to the usual." - That is not a problem. Hissing is communication and if it is respected then it actually builds trust.

"What I'm wondering now is what next steps we take towards integration." - Ok, gate sessions, scent swapping, site swapping if possible. And if we see them getting less focused then we will get to face to face. Focus on positive assocaitions and positive encounters and minimizing or avoiding negative encounters. Just the basics.

" I do truly think they'll each be happier at the new house - happier separately, and a greater chance for happier/neutral together - more room to do their own thing. But for now, we're in the space we're in" - It will be great. I think they will be just fine.

"I'm going to try to start doing more room swapping again or if not room swapping, scent swapping with blankets." - Yes, exactly. Just make sure they don't meet unexpectedly.

"And we'll do breakfast with visual access, and a treat time at night together with visual access." - Perfect, positive associations.

"What other steps can I take to keep building some trust/positivity or at least, neutrality?" - Basically that. Maximizing positive encounters. Positive associaitions (food). Distracting as needed (if we get them to look away that is positive). Just the basics.

"Other than packing, things should be relatively stable in the house for the next little while. A little less stressful energy. I hope that helps." - I think it will. They are going to be fine. Just keep reinforcing that the other cat is not a threat, only something positive, etc. In time they will realize the other cat is not a threat and will accept.

Just keep me up on their behavior, reactions, etc.

Welcome back home and congratulations on the sale!!
 
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Furmama22

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Congratulations!!! That is wonderful.

I am so glad it went well at your mom's house.

"The cats both did really well at my mom's - I think they enjoyed having more space (I let them out for small supervised periods - not together, of course) and having lots of sunshine. My mom's house is very bright. They did not see each other for the six days at my mom's. They switched rooms but there was no visual access." - Ok, great. The goal was that they were acting as normal as possible and it sounds like they had a good time. Great job!!

"So now they are settling back into the home routine." - Great. Give ti a day then as long as they seem "normal" then go back to sessions. If you sense they are a little uneasy then just hold off until they seem settled.

" I think initially it maybe smelled a bit weird in here (having so many people come in and view the house) but they seem to be back to regular now." - great, that is normal.

" I let them eat breakfast through the two pet gates for about 3 minutes this morning and that seemed fine." - Ok, great.

" She hisses when she sees him; he's curious. Back to the usual." - That is not a problem. Hissing is communication and if it is respected then it actually builds trust.

"What I'm wondering now is what next steps we take towards integration." - Ok, gate sessions, scent swapping, site swapping if possible. And if we see them getting less focused then we will get to face to face. Focus on positive assocaitions and positive encounters and minimizing or avoiding negative encounters. Just the basics.

" I do truly think they'll each be happier at the new house - happier separately, and a greater chance for happier/neutral together - more room to do their own thing. But for now, we're in the space we're in" - It will be great. I think they will be just fine.

"I'm going to try to start doing more room swapping again or if not room swapping, scent swapping with blankets." - Yes, exactly. Just make sure they don't meet unexpectedly.

"And we'll do breakfast with visual access, and a treat time at night together with visual access." - Perfect, positive associations.

"What other steps can I take to keep building some trust/positivity or at least, neutrality?" - Basically that. Maximizing positive encounters. Positive associaitions (food). Distracting as needed (if we get them to look away that is positive). Just the basics.

"Other than packing, things should be relatively stable in the house for the next little while. A little less stressful energy. I hope that helps." - I think it will. They are going to be fine. Just keep reinforcing that the other cat is not a threat, only something positive, etc. In time they will realize the other cat is not a threat and will accept.

Just keep me up on their behavior, reactions, etc.

Welcome back home and congratulations on the sale!!
Thanks so much C calicosrspecial ! Appreciate the advice and the congratulations. :)

We're working away on your recommendations - gate sessions, treat sessions, blanket swapping, and room swapping. I hope to get to a time when they are less focussed on each other. She hisses when she sees him but is very easily distracted. She also growls sometimes but keeps up her usual behaviour - eating, wanting treats, etc. He has times when he can be distracted and other times when he really is quite fixed on her and just wants to stare. That's basically how it has always been. Sometimes he'll be napping and when he hears the pet gate open (for me to go back into her room, where I'm working) he comes running over because he wants to stare. On those occasions, I try to dispense a few treats to distract him and sometimes he'll take them and other times he is focussed and the treat will literally bounce of his head and he keeps staring, haha. Sheesh.

I'll keep trying to do positive associations and see where we are in a week or so. :)
 

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Thanks so much C calicosrspecial ! Appreciate the advice and the congratulations. :)

We're working away on your recommendations - gate sessions, treat sessions, blanket swapping, and room swapping. I hope to get to a time when they are less focussed on each other. She hisses when she sees him but is very easily distracted. She also growls sometimes but keeps up her usual behaviour - eating, wanting treats, etc. He has times when he can be distracted and other times when he really is quite fixed on her and just wants to stare. That's basically how it has always been. Sometimes he'll be napping and when he hears the pet gate open (for me to go back into her room, where I'm working) he comes running over because he wants to stare. On those occasions, I try to dispense a few treats to distract him and sometimes he'll take them and other times he is focussed and the treat will literally bounce of his head and he keeps staring, haha. Sheesh.

I'll keep trying to do positive associations and see where we are in a week or so. :)
You are very welcome.

"We're working away on your recommendations - gate sessions, treat sessions, blanket swapping, and room swapping." - Great

" I hope to get to a time when they are less focussed on each other." - You will. :)

" She hisses when she sees him but is very easily distracted." - Hissing is communication so it is important to watch what happens after. How he responds (does he respect it or get more agitated, etc). BUT if she is easily distracted then it is not as much of a worry as no cat would turn and look away from a potential real threat. So easily distracted is positive and if nothing negative happens when she is distracted it is even more positive.

"She also growls sometimes but keeps up her usual behaviour - eating, wanting treats, etc." - Just communication, a warning for him not to try anything and if he respects it it builds trust.

"He has times when he can be distracted and other times when he really is quite fixed on her and just wants to stare." - Yes, that is normal. Great that he is distracted. Staring could be a few things. Could be trying to "keep her in her place", could just be observing, could be making sure she isn't going to hurt him or be negative, could be interested. Again, it depends on what happens after. If she is acting "normally" then that helps. If it escalates it tells us we have more work. But that is very common (staring).

" That's basically how it has always been. Sometimes he'll be napping and when he hears the pet gate open (for me to go back into her room, where I'm working) he comes running over because he wants to stare." - That is normal.

" On those occasions, I try to dispense a few treats to distract him and sometimes he'll take them and other times he is focussed and the treat will literally bounce of his head and he keeps staring, haha. Sheesh." - Yep, it jsut takes time to build trust and to get over the initial novelty of another cat in the house. VERY normal.

"I'll keep trying to do positive associations and see where we are in a week or so. :)" - Great, and watch for nuance. Watch how they react to things, etc. Body language. And if anything seems different or "interesting" feel free to post.

Sometimes it just takes time. But trust gets built from less and no negativity and as long as a cat feels safe, feels like there is plenty of food, water, access to the litter box, etc then trust comes. Sometimes it comes quicker sometimes it takes a little longer but it comes.

We'll get there. :)
 
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Furmama22

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You are very welcome.

"We're working away on your recommendations - gate sessions, treat sessions, blanket swapping, and room swapping." - Great

" I hope to get to a time when they are less focussed on each other." - You will. :)

" She hisses when she sees him but is very easily distracted." - Hissing is communication so it is important to watch what happens after. How he responds (does he respect it or get more agitated, etc). BUT if she is easily distracted then it is not as much of a worry as no cat would turn and look away from a potential real threat. So easily distracted is positive and if nothing negative happens when she is distracted it is even more positive.

"She also growls sometimes but keeps up her usual behaviour - eating, wanting treats, etc." - Just communication, a warning for him not to try anything and if he respects it it builds trust.

"He has times when he can be distracted and other times when he really is quite fixed on her and just wants to stare." - Yes, that is normal. Great that he is distracted. Staring could be a few things. Could be trying to "keep her in her place", could just be observing, could be making sure she isn't going to hurt him or be negative, could be interested. Again, it depends on what happens after. If she is acting "normally" then that helps. If it escalates it tells us we have more work. But that is very common (staring).

" That's basically how it has always been. Sometimes he'll be napping and when he hears the pet gate open (for me to go back into her room, where I'm working) he comes running over because he wants to stare." - That is normal.

" On those occasions, I try to dispense a few treats to distract him and sometimes he'll take them and other times he is focussed and the treat will literally bounce of his head and he keeps staring, haha. Sheesh." - Yep, it jsut takes time to build trust and to get over the initial novelty of another cat in the house. VERY normal.

"I'll keep trying to do positive associations and see where we are in a week or so. :)" - Great, and watch for nuance. Watch how they react to things, etc. Body language. And if anything seems different or "interesting" feel free to post.

Sometimes it just takes time. But trust gets built from less and no negativity and as long as a cat feels safe, feels like there is plenty of food, water, access to the litter box, etc then trust comes. Sometimes it comes quicker sometimes it takes a little longer but it comes.

We'll get there. :)
Thanks C calicosrspecial !! Always appreciate your advice.

I'm curious in terms of behaviour - what does NOT respecting hissing or growling look like? And, what do you consider to be 'acting normally', in terms of Florence responding to Hawthorne's staring?

They have the two pet gates between them so they are forced to respect each other physically, but what are other signs they are respecting one another, or more importantly, that Hawthorne is respecting Florence?
 

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Thanks C calicosrspecial !! Always appreciate your advice.

I'm curious in terms of behaviour - what does NOT respecting hissing or growling look like? And, what do you consider to be 'acting normally', in terms of Florence responding to Hawthorne's staring?

They have the two pet gates between them so they are forced to respect each other physically, but what are other signs they are respecting one another, or more importantly, that Hawthorne is respecting Florence?
"I'm curious in terms of behaviour - what does NOT respecting hissing or growling look like?" - Usually something aggressive like lunging, swatting, etc but could just be (on a lesser scale) more aggressive body language (looking like they are going to pounce, etc). Their hair could be up, puffy tail, eyes dilated, ears back, things like that.

" And, what do you consider to be 'acting normally', in terms of Florence responding to Hawthorne's staring?" -This would depend on the cat BUT typically it is calm body language or positive body language, they could be standing, sitting, laying. But no sign of tension, no hair up, ears up or swiveling around, eyes not dilated, etc. Staring/looking back isn't that bad unless combined with the things I mentioned. Typically you can sense if there are issues. There is kind of a feel. If that makes sense.

"They have the two pet gates between them so they are forced to respect each other physically," - Yes BUT one could be trying to get through the closest gate, etc.

"but what are other signs they are respecting one another, or more importantly, that Hawthorne is respecting Florence?" - The same things as above. Same movements, body language, etc. So let's say Hawthorne is staring (sitting and staring) and Florence hisses. If Hawthorne stands calmly (no hair up, no puffy tail, no ears back, etc) then it isn't a worry or if he is standing and he moves forward but not aggressively and without some or all of those "signs" then he is respecting. But if he is hitting the gate, trying to get through it, etc then that would be a sign he is not respecting it.

It is a bit nuanced than that but typically it would be pretty obvious if there was an issue. If all he is doing in continuing staring that is totally fine.

Does that kind of help? If you can get video of it I could take a look and let you know.
 
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"I'm curious in terms of behaviour - what does NOT respecting hissing or growling look like?" - Usually something aggressive like lunging, swatting, etc but could just be (on a lesser scale) more aggressive body language (looking like they are going to pounce, etc). Their hair could be up, puffy tail, eyes dilated, ears back, things like that.

" And, what do you consider to be 'acting normally', in terms of Florence responding to Hawthorne's staring?" -This would depend on the cat BUT typically it is calm body language or positive body language, they could be standing, sitting, laying. But no sign of tension, no hair up, ears up or swiveling around, eyes not dilated, etc. Staring/looking back isn't that bad unless combined with the things I mentioned. Typically you can sense if there are issues. There is kind of a feel. If that makes sense.

"They have the two pet gates between them so they are forced to respect each other physically," - Yes BUT one could be trying to get through the closest gate, etc.

"but what are other signs they are respecting one another, or more importantly, that Hawthorne is respecting Florence?" - The same things as above. Same movements, body language, etc. So let's say Hawthorne is staring (sitting and staring) and Florence hisses. If Hawthorne stands calmly (no hair up, no puffy tail, no ears back, etc) then it isn't a worry or if he is standing and he moves forward but not aggressively and without some or all of those "signs" then he is respecting. But if he is hitting the gate, trying to get through it, etc then that would be a sign he is not respecting it.

It is a bit nuanced than that but typically it would be pretty obvious if there was an issue. If all he is doing in continuing staring that is totally fine.

Does that kind of help? If you can get video of it I could take a look and let you know.
OK! I'll try to get a video and share it. I think that might help. :) She is the hisser/growler but she rarely reacts to him in any other way, especially if treats are present. She never lunges at the gate. He sometimes does react by trying to press his face through the bars, or reaching a paw through, trying to find an opening - so I think he sometimes respects and other times no. His eyes during those times are dilated. In the morning he'll eat his breakfast with her in the other room (through the gates) eating her breakfast and then walk away, no problem. Two hours later, he might come running when he hears the gate and then want to stare and be a bit more forward/obnoxious about it.

They've been in this same holding pattern for two months (with some disruptions, i.e. moving to my mom's) but as you say, this repetition could still be positive.

I'll try for some different videos and post.:) Thank you as always!
 

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OK! I'll try to get a video and share it. I think that might help. :) She is the hisser/growler but she rarely reacts to him in any other way, especially if treats are present. She never lunges at the gate. He sometimes does react by trying to press his face through the bars, or reaching a paw through, trying to find an opening - so I think he sometimes respects and other times no. His eyes during those times are dilated. In the morning he'll eat his breakfast with her in the other room (through the gates) eating her breakfast and then walk away, no problem. Two hours later, he might come running when he hears the gate and then want to stare and be a bit more forward/obnoxious about it.

They've been in this same holding pattern for two months (with some disruptions, i.e. moving to my mom's) but as you say, this repetition could still be positive.

I'll try for some different videos and post.:) Thank you as always!
"OK! I'll try to get a video and share it. I think that might help. :) " - Great.

"She is the hisser/growler" - That is not surprising, I am not at all worried about that.

" but she rarely reacts to him in any other way" - THAT is great and one reason why I am not worried about the hissing.

"especially if treats are present." - Food is the best way to make a positive association.

"She never lunges at the gate." - That is positive and another reason why I am not worried about the hissing.

"He sometimes does react by trying to press his face through the bars, or reaching a paw through, trying to find an opening " - That could be fine and could be an issue depending on how aggressive it is. I suspect (given that she doesn't seem to react that negatively - hiding, avoiding, "fighting back", etc) that he is not perceived (nor in actuality) to be aggressive.

"- so I think he sometimes respects and other times no." - Ok

"His eyes during those times are dilated." - Ok, other signs? Puffy tail, hair up, ears back?

"In the morning he'll eat his breakfast with her in the other room (through the gates) eating her breakfast and then walk away, no problem." - Another reason why Iam not worried. If it was a real issue that would rarely or never happen.

" Two hours later, he might come running when he hears the gate and then want to stare and be a bit more forward/obnoxious about it." - Yes, that is understandable. Again, that would be happening pretty much all the time if there were serious issues.

"They've been in this same holding pattern for two months (with some disruptions, i.e. moving to my mom's)" - Ok, that is not an issue. 2 months is actually not long (even though it feels like it for the humans).

" but as you say, this repetition could still be positive." - Absolutely. It is like if you walk past a shady person every day. As time goes on the person doesn't seem as scary as the first few times.

"I'll try for some different videos and post.:) " - Great!!

"Thank you as always!" - Of course, you are very welcome!!

I really am not worried. They are going to be fine in time. Just when not if. I am not getting any real concerning signs.
 
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"OK! I'll try to get a video and share it. I think that might help. :) " - Great.

"She is the hisser/growler" - That is not surprising, I am not at all worried about that.

" but she rarely reacts to him in any other way" - THAT is great and one reason why I am not worried about the hissing.

"especially if treats are present." - Food is the best way to make a positive association.

"She never lunges at the gate." - That is positive and another reason why I am not worried about the hissing.

"He sometimes does react by trying to press his face through the bars, or reaching a paw through, trying to find an opening " - That could be fine and could be an issue depending on how aggressive it is. I suspect (given that she doesn't seem to react that negatively - hiding, avoiding, "fighting back", etc) that he is not perceived (nor in actuality) to be aggressive.

"- so I think he sometimes respects and other times no." - Ok

"His eyes during those times are dilated." - Ok, other signs? Puffy tail, hair up, ears back?

"In the morning he'll eat his breakfast with her in the other room (through the gates) eating her breakfast and then walk away, no problem." - Another reason why Iam not worried. If it was a real issue that would rarely or never happen.

" Two hours later, he might come running when he hears the gate and then want to stare and be a bit more forward/obnoxious about it." - Yes, that is understandable. Again, that would be happening pretty much all the time if there were serious issues.

"They've been in this same holding pattern for two months (with some disruptions, i.e. moving to my mom's)" - Ok, that is not an issue. 2 months is actually not long (even though it feels like it for the humans).

" but as you say, this repetition could still be positive." - Absolutely. It is like if you walk past a shady person every day. As time goes on the person doesn't seem as scary as the first few times.

"I'll try for some different videos and post.:) " - Great!!

"Thank you as always!" - Of course, you are very welcome!!

I really am not worried. They are going to be fine in time. Just when not if. I am not getting any real concerning signs.
Hi C calicosrspecial and all! I have a couple of videos and will post tomorrow. One thing happened tonight though - I had swapped rooms for the cats and Hawthorne was in Florence's room. Sometimes when he gets annoyed being in there, he tips the water dish to express his displeasure. I realized I had forgotten to remove the water and so went back in quickly to grab it. The cats saw each other through the two pet gates and she hissed and got a big puffy tail and he tried to climb up the pet gate while snorting/huffing (you'll see an example of that in the video) to try to get to her. I moved past him to get out and he redirected his aggression and scratched my leg.

I don't mind the leg scratching but I wish it wouldn't be so aggressive between them - it was literally a ten second encounter. I felt a bit dejected. I know sometimes different moods affect things, and he was already annoyed at being in the room. But she got a big puffy tail and I didn't like that he was so worked up he attacked my leg instead.

Two hours before, he ate his supper in view of her no problem.

Anyways, maybe this is just a blip. She seemed to return to normal quite quickly (and I closed the door to the bedroom so I don't know how long it took Hawthorne but I'm guessing not super long as he was crying to get back out of the room in short order).

Is this a sign they still haven't accepted each other? Or just a bad mood moment?
 
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Hi C calicosrspecial and all! I have a couple of videos and will post tomorrow. One thing happened tonight though - I had swapped rooms for the cats and Hawthorne was in Florence's room. Sometimes when he gets annoyed being in there, he tips the water dish to express his displeasure. I realized I had forgotten to remove the water and so went back in quickly to grab it. The cats saw each other through the two pet gates and she hissed and got a big puffy tail and he tried to climb up the pet gate while snorting/huffing (you'll see an example of that in the video) to try to get to her. I moved past him to get out and he redirected his aggression and scratched my leg.

I don't mind the leg scratching but I wish it wouldn't be so aggressive between them - it was literally a ten second encounter. I felt a bit dejected. I know sometimes different moods affect things, and he was already annoyed at being in the room. But she got a big puffy tail and I didn't like that he was so worked up he attacked my leg instead.

Two hours before, he ate his supper in view of her no problem.

Anyways, maybe this is just a blip. She seemed to return to normal quite quickly (and I closed the door to the bedroom so I don't know how long it took Hawthorne but I'm guessing not super long as he was crying to get back out of the room in short order).

Is this a sign they still haven't accepted each other? Or just a bad mood moment?
I should just answer my own question. I think a bad mood moment. Hawthorne was worked up from being in the room and without treats to distract they only had each other to stare at. I still would have liked it to be a little more chill but so it goes. The rest of the time (with treats) has been fine, or at least, mostly fine. :)
 
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