Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

[Furmama22]

Great questions! In terms of their closed door interactions:

"she sometimes tries to bat at his paw when she can see him poking it under the door. That's when she is out and he is in." - That is normal.

" She can be distracted IMMEDIATELY. That's pretty much the same as before." - Ok, that is great, tells me it isn't that serious.

"When she is in her room and fussing the door and he is out, he sometimes tries to grab at the gate and rattle it a bit if she's making noise or fussing at the door. It's hard to tell if it's playful or a bit aggressive - it goes with his snorting and his fur is a little bit on end on his back. That's also the same as before. " - Ok

"That's literally the extent of their interactions. When he is in the room and crying she generally completely ignores it." - Ok, that is really good.

In terms of meeting/next steps:

"The office is fairly small, that's the only thing. There is a bed that she could go under and possibly be cornered, although the bed has an open bottom all around so cornering her under it would be almost just the same as cornering her without the bed. Everything else is open." - Ok. Is it possible to block that off? Does anyone go under there ever?

"Same basically goes for the main living area. The only trap is the sofa - either one could go under although there are multiple escapes out from under the sofa. Everything else is open and there are lots of height options - the table, the island, the counter so one could watch the other safely from a distance. It's a big room." - Ok, good

"Would seeing each other through the french door just lead to hissing/swatting at the glass?" - Not necessarily.

"Because then I could see maybe playing with one in the room with the French door and the other gets to be out and about and they can see each other but hopefully be distracted. And then maybe switching the next time." - Yes, that is exactly correct. I like the idea of using the french doors. It is definitely in the mix.

"Obviously part of me is tempted to just bite the bullet and see how it goes in-person and the other part is scared. " - Totally. I will only do what I think is best. The fact we are even thinking of a face to face is really good.

"But I have to remember this part is a process too - short first meeting, then longer, and so on. It doesn't have to perfect right away. " - Yes. We just don't want to have a negative encounter that sets us back. That is what I need to figure out.

"Also I'm sorry you had anxiety! It was hard to suddenly be disconnected from all the other cat folks! " - Oh, thank you. It was not your fault and luckily we left it without open questions. But I always worry if something negative happens. :/ BUT it didn't. The week has gone as I hoped/expected. Whew!!! It is just the unknown. :/

Hi there! I was thinking about how we decide the next step and wondering if it would help to see photos of the space? Or any other info that might help factor in?

They wouldn't have forgotten about each other over the move, right? Like, even though they haven't seen each other, they know the other is there? I've been lulled into a false sense of security by their individual success in adapting to the new house, but I have no idea what to expect for them actually seeing each other again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hi there! I was thinking about how we decide the next step and wondering if it would help to see photos of the space? Or any other info that might help factor in?

They wouldn't have forgotten about each other over the move, right? Like, even though they haven't seen each other, they know the other is there? I've been lulled into a false sense of security by their individual success in adapting to the new house, but I have no idea what to expect for them actually seeing each other again.

"Hi there! I was thinking about how we decide the next step and wondering if it would help to see photos of the space?" - I am not sure it is really the "space" that is my question. I am guessing it is a normal room, one door, etc. What I do want to make sure of is there is no "dead end" place where a cat can get cornered and then the only way out is through the other cat. Most important it my understanding how they will respond to being able to access each other. That is where I really need to get my mind around.

"Or any other info that might help factor in?" - How they are acting on their own, how they are acting when they sense the other cat. Things like that.

"They wouldn't have forgotten about each other over the move, right?" - Oh no, they know they are there.

" Like, even though they haven't seen each other, they know the other is there?" Absolutely.

" I've been lulled into a false sense of security by their individual success in adapting to the new house," - I don't think it is a false sense. It is always a challenge to figure it out. The fact they have made the move well does help in our efforts. In fact, the fact they are doing so well is why we are pondering how far to go in the next move. If they were uneasy, it would be easy to know what to do. I am trying to figure out how much we can move forward.

"but I have no idea what to expect for them actually seeing each other again." - I suspect it will be the same as the old house or better. Highly doubt it will be worse.

So, I am trying to figure out if we should really try to push the envelope or be conservative. Time is always our friend. And a negative encounter can set us back. BUT I sense an opportunity for a breakthrough. It really is art. IF (and I know this isn't possible) I was there I personally would do a face to face BUT I have the experience and know when it is risky and when the push it and distract/reassure, etc. It is art really.

I need to think about IF Hawthorne would take off after her and then do something. I don't think she would (and she can't since she is de-clawed) do it to him. I think she is more bark than bite UNLESS she was feeling really threatened. But he is a bit of a wildcard in my mind. That video where he scared her (at the old house) keeps lingering in my mind. BUT That was with a gate there. And sometimes the gate gives more confidence.

Is there an easy way to put the gate at the office door?

Still considering the french doors and a true face to face in the office.

How have thee been the last 24 hours?

Also, we'll want them to be a bit hungry (food/treat motivated) if possible when we do it. I want them to be easily distracted especially Hawthorne (who is a bit tricky).

So let me know how they are acting. We can always do the gate or french doors then soon after do a face to face if all goes well. My number 1 rule is to minimize or avoid negativity so......................................

 

[Furmama22]

"Hi there! I was thinking about how we decide the next step and wondering if it would help to see photos of the space?" - I am not sure it is really the "space" that is my question. I am guessing it is a normal room, one door, etc. What I do want to make sure of is there is no "dead end" place where a cat can get cornered and then the only way out is through the other cat. Most important it my understanding how they will respond to being able to access each other. That is where I really need to get my mind around.

"Or any other info that might help factor in?" - How they are acting on their own, how they are acting when they sense the other cat. Things like that.

"They wouldn't have forgotten about each other over the move, right?" - Oh no, they know they are there.

" Like, even though they haven't seen each other, they know the other is there?" Absolutely.

" I've been lulled into a false sense of security by their individual success in adapting to the new house," - I don't think it is a false sense. It is always a challenge to figure it out. The fact they have made the move well does help in our efforts. In fact, the fact they are doing so well is why we are pondering how far to go in the next move. If they were uneasy, it would be easy to know what to do. I am trying to figure out how much we can move forward.

"but I have no idea what to expect for them actually seeing each other again." - I suspect it will be the same as the old house or better. Highly doubt it will be worse.

So, I am trying to figure out if we should really try to push the envelope or be conservative. Time is always our friend. And a negative encounter can set us back. BUT I sense an opportunity for a breakthrough. It really is art. IF (and I know this isn't possible) I was there I personally would do a face to face BUT I have the experience and know when it is risky and when the push it and distract/reassure, etc. It is art really.

I need to think about IF Hawthorne would take off after her and then do something. I don't think she would (and she can't since she is de-clawed) do it to him. I think she is more bark than bite UNLESS she was feeling really threatened. But he is a bit of a wildcard in my mind. That video where he scared her (at the old house) keeps lingering in my mind. BUT That was with a gate there. And sometimes the gate gives more confidence.

Is there an easy way to put the gate at the office door?

Still considering the french doors and a true face to face in the office.

How have thee been the last 24 hours?

Also, we'll want them to be a bit hungry (food/treat motivated) if possible when we do it. I want them to be easily distracted especially Hawthorne (who is a bit tricky).

So let me know how they are acting. We can always do the gate or french doors then soon after do a face to face if all goes well. My number 1 rule is to minimize or avoid negativity so......................................

Okay, I have taken some videos to help in our discussion!
1. Hawthorne & Florence - the intro space: just a video of the possible rooms to help you visualize the spaces and see where any traps might be.

2. A video of Hawthorne to get a sense of his behaviour. This video shows how he can SOMETIMES be coming out of his room after he's been closed in there. He still does a little...patrolling, maybe? Exploring the space. He also doesn't like me videoing him, haha. About five minutes after the video he was grooming and going to sleep in his chair so he relaxes pretty easily. He also comes to sleep beside me when I read and can be super sweet and relaxed, which makes me very happy.

I also talked with my partner to get a sense of how he thinks Hawthorne is doing and we both agree well but still neurotic in some ways, with the toughest part being he doesn't like being in the room. That said, he was in Florie's room this afternoon for an hour and was totally quiet. But usually in his room he cries/bats at the door, so on, just as he did before (and as you guessed he would do again).

A few other thoughts to consider:
- this weekend is just myself and my partner; next weekend the stepkids come; then the weekend after that just us again. I think of it as quiet/calm/good for cat intro (on our weekends) to disruption/chaos/noise not good for cat introductions (on the stepkids weekends).

I agree we have time on our side. I also agree Florie is unlikely to do anything to Hawthorne; Hawthorne is the wildcard. I truthfully cannot predict what he might do.

Hawthorne & Florence - April 2021

They've been good in the last 24 hours - as noted, our weekends are nice and calm, and I can see that reflected in both of them. Plus it's beautiful weather and there are so many birds to watch outside for them! Lots of entertainment.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Okay, I have taken some videos to help in our discussion!
1. Hawthorne & Florence - the intro space: just a video of the possible rooms to help you visualize the spaces and see where any traps might be.

2. A video of Hawthorne to get a sense of his behaviour. This video shows how he can SOMETIMES be coming out of his room after he's been closed in there. He still does a little...patrolling, maybe? Exploring the space. He also doesn't like me videoing him, haha. About five minutes after the video he was grooming and going to sleep in his chair so he relaxes pretty easily. He also comes to sleep beside me when I read and can be super sweet and relaxed, which makes me very happy.

I also talked with my partner to get a sense of how he thinks Hawthorne is doing and we both agree well but still neurotic in some ways, with the toughest part being he doesn't like being in the room. That said, he was in Florie's room this afternoon for an hour and was totally quiet. But usually in his room he cries/bats at the door, so on, just as he did before (and as you guessed he would do again).

A few other thoughts to consider:
- this weekend is just myself and my partner; next weekend the stepkids come; then the weekend after that just us again. I think of it as quiet/calm/good for cat intro (on our weekends) to disruption/chaos/noise not good for cat introductions (on the stepkids weekends).

I agree we have time on our side. I also agree Florie is unlikely to do anything to Hawthorne; Hawthorne is the wildcard. I truthfully cannot predict what he might do.

Hawthorne & Florence - April 2021

They've been good in the last 24 hours - as noted, our weekends are nice and calm, and I can see that reflected in both of them. Plus it's beautiful weather and there are so many birds to watch outside for them! Lots of entertainment.

"Okay, I have taken some videos to help in our discussion!" - Great, let's take a look.

"1. Hawthorne & Florence - the intro space: just a video of the possible rooms to help you visualize the spaces and see where any traps might be." - GREAT job on the office!!! Cat perfection!!! And I LOVE how Florie is walking around with you, tail straight up, relaxed. The bed is pretty high off the ground. It would just be that corner that might be an issue. Yes, we would close the closet door though you have said (I believe) she goes in there and up so it might be a safe zone as I doubt Hawthorne would go up in there following her. BUT if she can't really get up in there then we will close it.

GORGEOUS house!!! I can see why you fell in love with it!!!

That open space is fantastic. We will want to close off the "little hallway" but we'll have to be careful. I think a gate but if they both jump it then we have issues. So let's think. My sense is no one would go there but we have to think "just in case". The french door option is a great one as well. I assume Florie does well in there as well? So many options...........

Where was Hawthorne? Was Hawthorne in the bedroom? Florie is doing great walking around. OH my she is ADORABLY GORGEOUS!!! And her reaction to hearing Hawthorne was fantastic. (or really lack thereof).

So first video fantastic on the space and Florie's body language.

"2. A video of Hawthorne to get a sense of his behaviour. This video shows how he can SOMETIMES be coming out of his room after he's been closed in there. He still does a little...patrolling, maybe? Exploring the space. He also doesn't like me videoing him, haha. About five minutes after the video he was grooming and going to sleep in his chair so he relaxes pretty easily. He also comes to sleep beside me when I read and can be super sweet and relaxed, which makes me very happy." - Ok, I see where Hawthorne was. SO he comes out, tail up, relaxed, confident. Perfect. Yep, they will avoid some things (carpet, etc). Ohhhhhh, is he GORGEOUS!!!! And I love that he is walking confidently, relaxed and doesn't go to where Florie was and get cautious, etc. Ok, Florie was playing there before. Body language great still. His tail is fine and the way he is walking looks great. I am not at all worried about his tail. Fantastic.

"I also talked with my partner to get a sense of how he thinks Hawthorne is doing and we both agree well but still neurotic in some ways," - How so "neurotic" other than being in his room which is totally normal.

" with the toughest part being he doesn't like being in the room." - Totally normal.

" That said, he was in Florie's room this afternoon for an hour and was totally quiet." - Perfect.

" But usually in his room he cries/bats at the door, so on, just as he did before (and as you guessed he would do again)." - Yes, that is a territorial issue (ownership of territory not a Florie issue).

A few other thoughts to consider:
"- this weekend is just myself and my partner; next weekend the stepkids come; then the weekend after that just us again. I think of it as quiet/calm/good for cat intro (on our weekends) to disruption/chaos/noise not good for cat introductions (on the stepkids weekends). " - Ok, that is fine.

"I agree we have time on our side. I also agree Florie is unlikely to do anything to Hawthorne; Hawthorne is the wildcard. I truthfully cannot predict what he might do." - Agreed. Has he ever been violent to another cat? Or did he ever just get "aggressive" and not cross the line?

Ok. Let's do a gate visit with Florie in the office and Hawthorne roaming the rest of the house for while before it. Open the door to the office, make sure Florie does not jump the gate (or try your best) then call over Hawthorne. Be in the room with Florie. I suspect there will be some growling, hissing, etc but distract. Try not to get Florie to move too quickly. Get her to focus on treats, you, distract. Then Hawthorne do his thing. If we can show him she is not threatening him then it will show him she is not after him. And let's see if he walks away on his own or is too persistent. This is the first time they have seen each other so I suspect we will have some unsettleness BUT if we can distract them and get them to settle a little that will be great. And then we can see where we are at. I think Florie will stay in the room with you and I don't think Hawthorne will jump the gate. Have a pillow or a big piece of cardboard in case he does. I just see great body language but let's see if that holds in the meeting today.

During this let me know how Hawthorne behaves, how easy it is to distract Florie, how she does, if Hawthorne walks away, and once over how they both act (leave Hawthorne full access to the house and let Florie just have the office.

We will know more after this. I think it might be a little wild but I suspect it will go just fine.

Hawthorne & Florence - April 2021

They've been good in the last 24 hours - as noted, our weekends are nice and calm, and I can see that reflected in both of them. Plus it's beautiful weather and there are so many birds to watch outside for them! Lots of entertainment.

 

[Furmama22]

"Okay, I have taken some videos to help in our discussion!" - Great, let's take a look.

"1. Hawthorne & Florence - the intro space: just a video of the possible rooms to help you visualize the spaces and see where any traps might be." - GREAT job on the office!!! Cat perfection!!! And I LOVE how Florie is walking around with you, tail straight up, relaxed. The bed is pretty high off the ground. It would just be that corner that might be an issue. Yes, we would close the closet door though you have said (I believe) she goes in there and up so it might be a safe zone as I doubt Hawthorne would go up in there following her. BUT if she can't really get up in there then we will close it.

GORGEOUS house!!! I can see why you fell in love with it!!!

That open space is fantastic. We will want to close off the "little hallway" but we'll have to be careful. I think a gate but if they both jump it then we have issues. So let's think. My sense is no one would go there but we have to think "just in case". The french door option is a great one as well. I assume Florie does well in there as well? So many options...........

Where was Hawthorne? Was Hawthorne in the bedroom? Florie is doing great walking around. OH my she is ADORABLY GORGEOUS!!! And her reaction to hearing Hawthorne was fantastic. (or really lack thereof).

So first video fantastic on the space and Florie's body language.

"2. A video of Hawthorne to get a sense of his behaviour. This video shows how he can SOMETIMES be coming out of his room after he's been closed in there. He still does a little...patrolling, maybe? Exploring the space. He also doesn't like me videoing him, haha. About five minutes after the video he was grooming and going to sleep in his chair so he relaxes pretty easily. He also comes to sleep beside me when I read and can be super sweet and relaxed, which makes me very happy." - Ok, I see where Hawthorne was. SO he comes out, tail up, relaxed, confident. Perfect. Yep, they will avoid some things (carpet, etc). Ohhhhhh, is he GORGEOUS!!!! And I love that he is walking confidently, relaxed and doesn't go to where Florie was and get cautious, etc. Ok, Florie was playing there before. Body language great still. His tail is fine and the way he is walking looks great. I am not at all worried about his tail. Fantastic.

"I also talked with my partner to get a sense of how he thinks Hawthorne is doing and we both agree well but still neurotic in some ways," - How so "neurotic" other than being in his room which is totally normal.

" with the toughest part being he doesn't like being in the room." - Totally normal.

" That said, he was in Florie's room this afternoon for an hour and was totally quiet." - Perfect.

" But usually in his room he cries/bats at the door, so on, just as he did before (and as you guessed he would do again)." - Yes, that is a territorial issue (ownership of territory not a Florie issue).

A few other thoughts to consider:
"- this weekend is just myself and my partner; next weekend the stepkids come; then the weekend after that just us again. I think of it as quiet/calm/good for cat intro (on our weekends) to disruption/chaos/noise not good for cat introductions (on the stepkids weekends). " - Ok, that is fine.

"I agree we have time on our side. I also agree Florie is unlikely to do anything to Hawthorne; Hawthorne is the wildcard. I truthfully cannot predict what he might do." - Agreed. Has he ever been violent to another cat? Or did he ever just get "aggressive" and not cross the line?

Ok. Let's do a gate visit with Florie in the office and Hawthorne roaming the rest of the house for while before it. Open the door to the office, make sure Florie does not jump the gate (or try your best) then call over Hawthorne. Be in the room with Florie. I suspect there will be some growling, hissing, etc but distract. Try not to get Florie to move too quickly. Get her to focus on treats, you, distract. Then Hawthorne do his thing. If we can show him she is not threatening him then it will show him she is not after him. And let's see if he walks away on his own or is too persistent. This is the first time they have seen each other so I suspect we will have some unsettleness BUT if we can distract them and get them to settle a little that will be great. And then we can see where we are at. I think Florie will stay in the room with you and I don't think Hawthorne will jump the gate. Have a pillow or a big piece of cardboard in case he does. I just see great body language but let's see if that holds in the meeting today.

During this let me know how Hawthorne behaves, how easy it is to distract Florie, how she does, if Hawthorne walks away, and once over how they both act (leave Hawthorne full access to the house and let Florie just have the office.

We will know more after this. I think it might be a little wild but I suspect it will go just fine.

Hawthorne & Florence - April 2021

They've been good in the last 24 hours - as noted, our weekends are nice and calm, and I can see that reflected in both of them. Plus it's beautiful weather and there are so many birds to watch outside for them! Lots of entertainment.

Alright we just did the visual access visit!

She was basically fine. She growled a couple of times when she felt he was closer to the gate or when she looked up at him but the rest of the time (it was only, admittedly, about four minutes) she went after her treats and that's all she wanted. She didn't seem to really care at all that he was there - she did nothing differently (except for that occasional growl). She was VERY easy to distract. She barely even noticed his arrival. She did not hiss.

He was pretty good - not aggressive at all, but more a little scared/unsure. He went into his bedroom and wanted to eat his treats just off to the side and then eventually came out closer to the gate. He was perfectly willing to chase the treats down the hallway. He did not approach the gate at all, really. He stared a little bit at her but was, according to my partner (who was giving him the treats) fairly easy to distract with treats (as opposed to very easy).

So I guess the part we didn't do was the "let them settle" part. This was kind of like a quick drive-through visit, haha.

Now a few minutes later he's on the bed in the french door room with me, grooming and relaxing.

So I'd say generally positive, except for us not perhaps going long enough.

Should we try it again tomorrow? I'm re-reading your notes above and thinking the ideal would be for me to entertain Florie and Hawthorne just basically get to watch, and then we see how he does. This time we also kept him busy with his own treats.

 

[Furmama22]

Alright we just did the visual access visit!

She was basically fine. She growled a couple of times when she felt he was closer to the gate or when she looked up at him but the rest of the time (it was only, admittedly, about four minutes) she went after her treats and that's all she wanted. She didn't seem to really care at all that he was there - she did nothing differently (except for that occasional growl). She was VERY easy to distract. She barely even noticed his arrival. She did not hiss.

He was pretty good - not aggressive at all, but more a little scared/unsure. He went into his bedroom and wanted to eat his treats just off to the side and then eventually came out closer to the gate. He was perfectly willing to chase the treats down the hallway. He did not approach the gate at all, really. He stared a little bit at her but was, according to my partner (who was giving him the treats) fairly easy to distract with treats (as opposed to very easy).

So I guess the part we didn't do was the "let them settle" part. This was kind of like a quick drive-through visit, haha.

Now a few minutes later he's on the bed in the french door room with me, grooming and relaxing.

So I'd say generally positive, except for us not perhaps going long enough.

Should we try it again tomorrow? I'm re-reading your notes above and thinking the ideal would be for me to entertain Florie and Hawthorne just basically get to watch, and then we see how he does. This time we also kept him busy with his own treats.

Also thank you for the compliments on the house! It's a very lovely space. I knew it would work for me and the human family members but most important of all I knew it would be good for the cats!!

Emily

 

[calicosrspecial]

Alright we just did the visual access visit!

She was basically fine. She growled a couple of times when she felt he was closer to the gate or when she looked up at him but the rest of the time (it was only, admittedly, about four minutes) she went after her treats and that's all she wanted. She didn't seem to really care at all that he was there - she did nothing differently (except for that occasional growl). She was VERY easy to distract. She barely even noticed his arrival. She did not hiss.

He was pretty good - not aggressive at all, but more a little scared/unsure. He went into his bedroom and wanted to eat his treats just off to the side and then eventually came out closer to the gate. He was perfectly willing to chase the treats down the hallway. He did not approach the gate at all, really. He stared a little bit at her but was, according to my partner (who was giving him the treats) fairly easy to distract with treats (as opposed to very easy).

So I guess the part we didn't do was the "let them settle" part. This was kind of like a quick drive-through visit, haha.

Now a few minutes later he's on the bed in the french door room with me, grooming and relaxing.

So I'd say generally positive, except for us not perhaps going long enough.

Should we try it again tomorrow? I'm re-reading your notes above and thinking the ideal would be for me to entertain Florie and Hawthorne just basically get to watch, and then we see how he does. This time we also kept him busy with his own treats.

"Alright we just did the visual access visit!" - Great!!

"She was basically fine. She growled a couple of times when she felt he was closer to the gate or when she looked up at him but the rest of the time (it was only, admittedly, about four minutes) she went after her treats and that's all she wanted. She didn't seem to really care at all that he was there - she did nothing differently (except for that occasional growl). She was VERY easy to distract. She barely even noticed his arrival. She did not hiss." -

"He was pretty good - not aggressive at all, but more a little scared/unsure. He went into his bedroom and wanted to eat his treats just off to the side and then eventually came out closer to the gate. He was perfectly willing to chase the treats down the hallway. He did not approach the gate at all, really. He stared a little bit at her but was, according to my partner (who was giving him the treats) fairly easy to distract with treats (as opposed to very easy)." - This is fantastic. He did so well. MUCH better than I imagined. I LOVE he was able to be distracted. Love he wasn't totally focused on her.

AWESOME!!!!! This was amazingly great!! EXACTLY what I would have wished would happen.

"So I guess the part we didn't do was the "let them settle" part. This was kind of like a quick drive-through visit, haha." - Ok, that is fine. Positive encounter. How long was it? Even if it was 5 minutes it would be fantastic.

"Now a few minutes later he's on the bed in the french door room with me, grooming and relaxing." - Door open or closed? Where was Florie? Being with you grooming, loving is fantastic.

"So I'd say generally positive, except for us not perhaps going long enough." - Oh my, this is FANTASTIC!!! Totally positive. Length is not an issue. I am ecstatic.

"Should we try it again tomorrow?" - Absolutely.

"I'm re-reading your notes above and thinking the ideal would be for me to entertain Florie and Hawthorne just basically get to watch, and then we see how he does." - Perfect.

" This time we also kept him busy with his own treats. " That was GREAT!!! I just thought maybe it could only be you with them. This is even better than I hoped.

So tomorrow do what you wrote above. Exactly right. And let's see how they do.

 

[Furmama22]

"Alright we just did the visual access visit!" - Great!!

"She was basically fine. She growled a couple of times when she felt he was closer to the gate or when she looked up at him but the rest of the time (it was only, admittedly, about four minutes) she went after her treats and that's all she wanted. She didn't seem to really care at all that he was there - she did nothing differently (except for that occasional growl). She was VERY easy to distract. She barely even noticed his arrival. She did not hiss." -

"He was pretty good - not aggressive at all, but more a little scared/unsure. He went into his bedroom and wanted to eat his treats just off to the side and then eventually came out closer to the gate. He was perfectly willing to chase the treats down the hallway. He did not approach the gate at all, really. He stared a little bit at her but was, according to my partner (who was giving him the treats) fairly easy to distract with treats (as opposed to very easy)." - This is fantastic. He did so well. MUCH better than I imagined. I LOVE he was able to be distracted. Love he wasn't totally focused on her.

AWESOME!!!!! This was amazingly great!! EXACTLY what I would have wished would happen.

"So I guess the part we didn't do was the "let them settle" part. This was kind of like a quick drive-through visit, haha." - Ok, that is fine. Positive encounter. How long was it? Even if it was 5 minutes it would be fantastic.

"Now a few minutes later he's on the bed in the french door room with me, grooming and relaxing." - Door open or closed? Where was Florie? Being with you grooming, loving is fantastic.

"So I'd say generally positive, except for us not perhaps going long enough." - Oh my, this is FANTASTIC!!! Totally positive. Length is not an issue. I am ecstatic.

"Should we try it again tomorrow?" - Absolutely.

"I'm re-reading your notes above and thinking the ideal would be for me to entertain Florie and Hawthorne just basically get to watch, and then we see how he does." - Perfect.

" This time we also kept him busy with his own treats. " That was GREAT!!! I just thought maybe it could only be you with them. This is even better than I hoped.

So tomorrow do what you wrote above. Exactly right. And let's see how they do.

Hahahah, all of those amazing cheerful emojis made me laugh!! Thanks for such positive energy!

A few quick things:
- the total visual access encounter today was probably about four or five minutes. They each got a tasty paste treat and then a few dental greenies. Then I closed the door to Florie's room and left her in there, and Hawthorne got to come relax with me in the main space.
- should we just aim for x1 per day for now? I think your idea of doing it at a time when Hawthorne has been out for awhile (in the main space) is very wise. He's far more relaxed.
- for tomorrow's visit, as noted, I'll try to give her a few treats and just let him watch and see how it goes. I guess this means he'll have nothing to distract him. If he's staring, should I give him treats? Or is the hope that he'll decide to leave/wander away on his own after watching her?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hahahah, all of those amazing cheerful emojis made me laugh!! Thanks for such positive energy!

A few quick things:
- the total visual access encounter today was probably about four or five minutes. They each got a tasty paste treat and then a few dental greenies. Then I closed the door to Florie's room and left her in there, and Hawthorne got to come relax with me in the main space.
- should we just aim for x1 per day for now? I think your idea of doing it at a time when Hawthorne has been out for awhile (in the main space) is very wise. He's far more relaxed.
- for tomorrow's visit, as noted, I'll try to give her a few treats and just let him watch and see how it goes. I guess this means he'll have nothing to distract him. If he's staring, should I give him treats? Or is the hope that he'll decide to leave/wander away on his own after watching her?

"Hahahah, all of those amazing cheerful emojis made me laugh!! Thanks for such positive energy!" Awwwww, wonderful!!

"A few quick things:
- the total visual access encounter today was probably about four or five minutes." - Great. It is quality over quantity.

"They each got a tasty paste treat and then a few dental greenies. Then I closed the door to Florie's room and left her in there, and Hawthorne got to come relax with me in the main space." - Perfect, exactly the right thing to do.

"- should we just aim for x1 per day for now?" Do as many as you like. The more the better as long as they are positive like that.

" I think your idea of doing it at a time when Hawthorne has been out for awhile (in the main space) is very wise. He's far more relaxed." - Great. Let's keep doing that then.

"- for tomorrow's visit, as noted, I'll try to give her a few treats and just let him watch and see how it goes." - Great. Keep her distracted, focused on you, treats, etc. Keep her from not moving too fast, too quick. Just have her hang out with you, etc (if possible). It will show him that she isn't interested in attacking him/being a threat etc.

"I guess this means he'll have nothing to distract him." - Yes BUT you will be showing him that she is not a threat to him, etc. I would love for him to get bored and just walk away. BUT I suspect he wont. (yet).

" If he's staring, should I give him treats?" - You can and talk to him, reassure him that it is "ok". Try not to get Florie too excited, running around, etc. Try to keep Florie a bit calmer, moving slower, etc.

"Or is the hope that he'll decide to leave/wander away on his own after watching her? " - Ohhhhhh, I would LOVE that BUT I suspect it will not happen yet.

The ideal would be he watches her, she doesn't pay attention to him, he thinks "this is boring, I am going into the other area to watch birds or something".

Keep up the great work!!!

 

[Furmama22]

"Hahahah, all of those amazing cheerful emojis made me laugh!! Thanks for such positive energy!" Awwwww, wonderful!!

"A few quick things:
- the total visual access encounter today was probably about four or five minutes." - Great. It is quality over quantity.

"They each got a tasty paste treat and then a few dental greenies. Then I closed the door to Florie's room and left her in there, and Hawthorne got to come relax with me in the main space." - Perfect, exactly the right thing to do.

"- should we just aim for x1 per day for now?" Do as many as you like. The more the better as long as they are positive like that.

" I think your idea of doing it at a time when Hawthorne has been out for awhile (in the main space) is very wise. He's far more relaxed." - Great. Let's keep doing that then.

"- for tomorrow's visit, as noted, I'll try to give her a few treats and just let him watch and see how it goes." - Great. Keep her distracted, focused on you, treats, etc. Keep her from not moving too fast, too quick. Just have her hang out with you, etc (if possible). It will show him that she isn't interested in attacking him/being a threat etc.

"I guess this means he'll have nothing to distract him." - Yes BUT you will be showing him that she is not a threat to him, etc. I would love for him to get bored and just walk away. BUT I suspect he wont. (yet).

" If he's staring, should I give him treats?" - You can and talk to him, reassure him that it is "ok". Try not to get Florie too excited, running around, etc. Try to keep Florie a bit calmer, moving slower, etc.

"Or is the hope that he'll decide to leave/wander away on his own after watching her? " - Ohhhhhh, I would LOVE that BUT I suspect it will not happen yet.

The ideal would be he watches her, she doesn't pay attention to him, he thinks "this is boring, I am going into the other area to watch birds or something".

Keep up the great work!!!

We did two sessions today, both with treats, both about four minutes. The first one was very calm and went well - they both just chased their treats, neither was very interested in the other.

The second was a bit testier - she seemed a bit more punchy and it took a bit more work to distract her. She growled a little bit more and I think wanted to approach the gate - she'd been in her room for a couple of hours, so I'm not sure if it was a situation where she wanted to come out. But I think she would have marched right up to the gate and I don't know what Hawthorne would have done in that situation. Hawthorne had a little bit of fur puffed up on his back (piloerection) but he was pretty easily distracted by the treats.

I get stressed out too because I so badly don't want him to do anything that sets us back.

Do you think we should try something with the French door, to let them see each other for longer without any chance of physically hurting each other?

 

[Furmama22]

I also wanted to know if I should bring back meal times - eating in view of each other. I think breakfast would work for that.

 

[calicosrspecial]

We did two sessions today, both with treats, both about four minutes. The first one was very calm and went well - they both just chased their treats, neither was very interested in the other.

The second was a bit testier - she seemed a bit more punchy and it took a bit more work to distract her. She growled a little bit more and I think wanted to approach the gate - she'd been in her room for a couple of hours, so I'm not sure if it was a situation where she wanted to come out. But I think she would have marched right up to the gate and I don't know what Hawthorne would have done in that situation. Hawthorne had a little bit of fur puffed up on his back (piloerection) but he was pretty easily distracted by the treats.

I get stressed out too because I so badly don't want him to do anything that sets us back.

Do you think we should try something with the French door, to let them see each other for longer without any chance of physically hurting each other?

"We did two sessions today, both with treats, both about four minutes." - Great.

" The first one was very calm and went well - they both just chased their treats, neither was very interested in the other." - Great. Impressive if they were active, running, etc as that can trigger a response. I would like to try to keep them a bit more subdued but still distracted (if possible).

"The second was a bit testier - she seemed a bit more punchy and it took a bit more work to distract her." - Ok, but she was able to be distracted which is great.

" She growled a little bit more and I think wanted to approach the gate - she'd been in her room for a couple of hours, so I'm not sure if it was a situation where she wanted to come out." - Ok, I would expect that. Let's see what happens next.

" But I think she would have marched right up to the gate" -Ok, then good job getting her not to do that, keeping her distracted.

" and I don't know what Hawthorne would have done in that situation." - Probably ran to the gate, pawing etc.

" Hawthorne had a little bit of fur puffed up on his back (piloerection)" - Ok, I would expect that.

" but he was pretty easily distracted by the treats." - SO he chose treats over her. THAT is a BIG deal and a great sign. It is all about seeing how threatened they feel, etc. If they chose a treat over defending themselves that tells us they don't perceive the other cat as a big threat.

"I get stressed out too because I so badly don't want him to do anything that sets us back." - At this point Other than a full blown, serious fight I am not sure there is anything that would really set us back to a significant point.

"Do you think we should try something with the French door, to let them see each other for longer without any chance of physically hurting each other?" - I think we stay with the gate since it is going well. I would like to extend the time length. Also, make sure (if possible) they aren't moving too quickly. So distract with a treat in front of them if possible. Hang out. If she growls reassure with words, use a treat. If we can distract that is good. Then that shows the other one that they aren't totally focused on them. Anytime a cat looks away from another cat it is a sign of trust as no one would look away from a real threat.

I just don't think we need the french doors. They can see each other through the gate, right? There is always a probability it goes awry and they get into a serious fight, hurt each other, etc but usually there are strong signs of the risks. I am not seeing that here. They wouldn't be able to be distracted, they wouldn't eat in front of them, look away, etc. If one was cornered and the other was aggressive and it was literally fight or die then it would escalate but I just don't see that here. There is always a risk of something bad happening but it tends to be so minuscule. IF they were my cats with my experience I would be doing a face to face with them. Based on the confidence I have in myself in de-escalating, distracting, etc and the actions of the cats. I think it is too early given the situation now but if we continue to have good encounters (and these are good encounters) we will be moving there.

"I also wanted to know if I should bring back meal times - eating in view of each other. I think breakfast would work for that." - Absolutely. And just monitor and distract, reassure. Keep the food a good amount from the gates to start with and let's see how they do. If we get a rush to the gate and the other responds then just try to reassure. I would guess Hawthorne would rush it and Florie would back off. Then reassure her and try to get her back to eating.

We have to test them a bit to see where they are, what they can tolerate. The sessions yesterday were fantastic so that gives me confidence we can push it a bit.

Let me know if you have questions. There is a bit of nuance here but I really don't see issues that are concerning me. I think the video that Hawthorne charged the gate and she retreated was a moving stress issue rather than something more between them.

 

[Furmama22]

"We did two sessions today, both with treats, both about four minutes." - Great.

" The first one was very calm and went well - they both just chased their treats, neither was very interested in the other." - Great. Impressive if they were active, running, etc as that can trigger a response. I would like to try to keep them a bit more subdued but still distracted (if possible).

"The second was a bit testier - she seemed a bit more punchy and it took a bit more work to distract her." - Ok, but she was able to be distracted which is great.

" She growled a little bit more and I think wanted to approach the gate - she'd been in her room for a couple of hours, so I'm not sure if it was a situation where she wanted to come out." - Ok, I would expect that. Let's see what happens next.

" But I think she would have marched right up to the gate" -Ok, then good job getting her not to do that, keeping her distracted.

" and I don't know what Hawthorne would have done in that situation." - Probably ran to the gate, pawing etc.

" Hawthorne had a little bit of fur puffed up on his back (piloerection)" - Ok, I would expect that.

" but he was pretty easily distracted by the treats." - SO he chose treats over her. THAT is a BIG deal and a great sign. It is all about seeing how threatened they feel, etc. If they chose a treat over defending themselves that tells us they don't perceive the other cat as a big threat.

"I get stressed out too because I so badly don't want him to do anything that sets us back." - At this point Other than a full blown, serious fight I am not sure there is anything that would really set us back to a significant point.

"Do you think we should try something with the French door, to let them see each other for longer without any chance of physically hurting each other?" - I think we stay with the gate since it is going well. I would like to extend the time length. Also, make sure (if possible) they aren't moving too quickly. So distract with a treat in front of them if possible. Hang out. If she growls reassure with words, use a treat. If we can distract that is good. Then that shows the other one that they aren't totally focused on them. Anytime a cat looks away from another cat it is a sign of trust as no one would look away from a real threat.

I just don't think we need the french doors. They can see each other through the gate, right? There is always a probability it goes awry and they get into a serious fight, hurt each other, etc but usually there are strong signs of the risks. I am not seeing that here. They wouldn't be able to be distracted, they wouldn't eat in front of them, look away, etc. If one was cornered and the other was aggressive and it was literally fight or die then it would escalate but I just don't see that here. There is always a risk of something bad happening but it tends to be so minuscule. IF they were my cats with my experience I would be doing a face to face with them. Based on the confidence I have in myself in de-escalating, distracting, etc and the actions of the cats. I think it is too early given the situation now but if we continue to have good encounters (and these are good encounters) we will be moving there.

"I also wanted to know if I should bring back meal times - eating in view of each other. I think breakfast would work for that." - Absolutely. And just monitor and distract, reassure. Keep the food a good amount from the gates to start with and let's see how they do. If we get a rush to the gate and the other responds then just try to reassure. I would guess Hawthorne would rush it and Florie would back off. Then reassure her and try to get her back to eating.

We have to test them a bit to see where they are, what they can tolerate. The sessions yesterday were fantastic so that gives me confidence we can push it a bit.

Let me know if you have questions. There is a bit of nuance here but I really don't see issues that are concerning me. I think the video that Hawthorne charged the gate and she retreated was a moving stress issue rather than something more between them.

Ok we'll keep going with the treat sessions for now. We did two today again - same as yesterday, basically. The first one was good, no problems - both chasing treats and not really minding the other.

For the second visit, we did supper. Both were hungry. I put Hawthorne's meal about three feet from the gate and he started eating. Then I opened the door for Florie and went through the gate (there's usually no risk of her trying to get out when she sees you're bringing in food) and she was great when she saw Hawthorne - no hissing. But then she was still at the gate waiting for me to put down the plate and Hawthorne left his meal and rushed the gate, doing the exact thing you guessed he might - pawing and snorting a bit. She hissed and growled and backed away and kind of slowly slunk out of view. I tried to calm and distract and then she came to eat her food, and Hawthorne stared and snorted a bit more, and then went to eat his food too.

They each seem to react to the other - she doesn't like him coming up to the gate so quickly so she growls; then he doesn't like the growling so he snorts.

Anyways it all ended ok and they both ate, so I used your measure to say obviously not that serious - though I still wish he would stop doing that!!

Does Hawthorne rush the gate in those moments because he still sees her as a threat? Or is he just being a stinker?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Ok we'll keep going with the treat sessions for now. We did two today again - same as yesterday, basically. The first one was good, no problems - both chasing treats and not really minding the other.

For the second visit, we did supper. Both were hungry. I put Hawthorne's meal about three feet from the gate and he started eating. Then I opened the door for Florie and went through the gate (there's usually no risk of her trying to get out when she sees you're bringing in food) and she was great when she saw Hawthorne - no hissing. But then she was still at the gate waiting for me to put down the plate and Hawthorne left his meal and rushed the gate, doing the exact thing you guessed he might - pawing and snorting a bit. She hissed and growled and backed away and kind of slowly slunk out of view. I tried to calm and distract and then she came to eat her food, and Hawthorne stared and snorted a bit more, and then went to eat his food too.

They each seem to react to the other - she doesn't like him coming up to the gate so quickly so she growls; then he doesn't like the growling so he snorts.

Anyways it all ended ok and they both ate, so I used your measure to say obviously not that serious - though I still wish he would stop doing that!!

Does Hawthorne rush the gate in those moments because he still sees her as a threat? Or is he just being a stinker?

"Ok we'll keep going with the treat sessions for now." - Great, and meals.

" We did two today again - same as yesterday, basically." - Great

"The first one was good, no problems - both chasing treats and not really minding the other." - Great. So they don't mind the other cat running around chasing the treats?

"For the second visit, we did supper. Both were hungry. I put Hawthorne's meal about three feet from the gate and he started eating." - Great

" Then I opened the door for Florie and went through the gate (there's usually no risk of her trying to get out when she sees you're bringing in food) and she was great when she saw Hawthorne - no hissing." - Great

" But then she was still at the gate waiting for me to put down the plate and Hawthorne left his meal and rushed the gate, doing the exact thing you guessed he might - pawing and snorting a bit." - Ok, expected.

"She hissed and growled and backed away and kind of slowly slunk out of view." - Ok, that is fine. The slinking it telling him she doesn't mean to be a threat.

" I tried to calm and distract and then she came to eat her food, and Hawthorne stared and snorted a bit more, and then went to eat his food too." - He chose to eat!!! EXACTLY what I was hoping for.

"They each seem to react to the other - she doesn't like him coming up to the gate so quickly so she growls; then he doesn't like the growling so he snorts." - Yes, that is normal. Quick movements will trigger concern so you get the growling and then the other cat perceives that to be threatening and responds to protect. So the more they see each other and nothing bad happens the more trust is built. That is why I LOVE that he went back to eating after the gate encounter. That is actually positive and is a bit of trust built up.

"Anyways it all ended ok and they both ate, so I used your measure to say obviously not that serious - though I still wish he would stop doing that!!" - I say it was great. Yes, he will stop it. He just needs to realize that she is not a threat. Which takes time. SO the more encounters the more trust gets built.

"Does Hawthorne rush the gate in those moments because he still sees her as a threat? Or is he just being a stinker?" - I think he sees her as aa mild threat. I suspect he still doesn't totally trust her so it is more the "threat". It doesn't seem excessive like he thinks it is existential (because if he did there is no way he would go back to eating, etc) but there is still distrust and given she hisses he doesn't trust her yet.

So, we'll want to keep doing it, extend the times, distract, try to keep it as positive as possible. If he is at the gate huffing and puffing and she isn't paying attention that would be great. He will then realize she doesn't pose a threat and her hissing is defensive. If we can get her more aloof like "whatever" I think he will not charge the gate etc. So really try to focus on that.

I think they are close. We just need that breakthrough. But we do need them to get more exposure and use distraction reassurance, food at times to extend it.

It sounds like both are pretty good at being distracted BUT I think we should focus on you being with Florie as if you are with Hawthorne I fear she might jump the gate. BUT if that happens that would tell us she doesn't fear him that much. But for now be with Florie, distract and let's see how Hawthorne responds. If he gets bored and walks away (without food) that would be a great breakthrough.

I think this might be a bit confusing but let me know if you have questions. The key really is distraction and therefore keeping it as positive as possible keeping them focused on anything other than each other. I would like to use food but then use words, a toy, love (if safe and no risk of being hurt).

I should add - The cats have to do their part in the intros as well. So that is why we focus on building confidence through Play and then feeding after play, Food (positive association, positive encounter), Height (places to go high to survey the situation) and Love (if safe - to feel secure, safe, etc). And a confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted.

I am not worried, so far so good. The move went much better than I hoped for.

 

[Furmama22]

"Ok we'll keep going with the treat sessions for now." - Great, and meals.

" We did two today again - same as yesterday, basically." - Great

"The first one was good, no problems - both chasing treats and not really minding the other." - Great. So they don't mind the other cat running around chasing the treats?

"For the second visit, we did supper. Both were hungry. I put Hawthorne's meal about three feet from the gate and he started eating." - Great

" Then I opened the door for Florie and went through the gate (there's usually no risk of her trying to get out when she sees you're bringing in food) and she was great when she saw Hawthorne - no hissing." - Great

" But then she was still at the gate waiting for me to put down the plate and Hawthorne left his meal and rushed the gate, doing the exact thing you guessed he might - pawing and snorting a bit." - Ok, expected.

"She hissed and growled and backed away and kind of slowly slunk out of view." - Ok, that is fine. The slinking it telling him she doesn't mean to be a threat.

" I tried to calm and distract and then she came to eat her food, and Hawthorne stared and snorted a bit more, and then went to eat his food too." - He chose to eat!!! EXACTLY what I was hoping for.

"They each seem to react to the other - she doesn't like him coming up to the gate so quickly so she growls; then he doesn't like the growling so he snorts." - Yes, that is normal. Quick movements will trigger concern so you get the growling and then the other cat perceives that to be threatening and responds to protect. So the more they see each other and nothing bad happens the more trust is built. That is why I LOVE that he went back to eating after the gate encounter. That is actually positive and is a bit of trust built up.

"Anyways it all ended ok and they both ate, so I used your measure to say obviously not that serious - though I still wish he would stop doing that!!" - I say it was great. Yes, he will stop it. He just needs to realize that she is not a threat. Which takes time. SO the more encounters the more trust gets built.

"Does Hawthorne rush the gate in those moments because he still sees her as a threat? Or is he just being a stinker?" - I think he sees her as aa mild threat. I suspect he still doesn't totally trust her so it is more the "threat". It doesn't seem excessive like he thinks it is existential (because if he did there is no way he would go back to eating, etc) but there is still distrust and given she hisses he doesn't trust her yet.

So, we'll want to keep doing it, extend the times, distract, try to keep it as positive as possible. If he is at the gate huffing and puffing and she isn't paying attention that would be great. He will then realize she doesn't pose a threat and her hissing is defensive. If we can get her more aloof like "whatever" I think he will not charge the gate etc. So really try to focus on that.

I think they are close. We just need that breakthrough. But we do need them to get more exposure and use distraction reassurance, food at times to extend it.

It sounds like both are pretty good at being distracted BUT I think we should focus on you being with Florie as if you are with Hawthorne I fear she might jump the gate. BUT if that happens that would tell us she doesn't fear him that much. But for now be with Florie, distract and let's see how Hawthorne responds. If he gets bored and walks away (without food) that would be a great breakthrough.

I think this might be a bit confusing but let me know if you have questions. The key really is distraction and therefore keeping it as positive as possible keeping them focused on anything other than each other. I would like to use food but then use words, a toy, love (if safe and no risk of being hurt).

I should add - The cats have to do their part in the intros as well. So that is why we focus on building confidence through Play and then feeding after play, Food (positive association, positive encounter), Height (places to go high to survey the situation) and Love (if safe - to feel secure, safe, etc). And a confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted.

I am not worried, so far so good. The move went much better than I hoped for.

The move did go well, I'm happy about that too.

I will focus on extending the length of the sessions, where possible, and trying to get Hawthorne to get bored and walk away. I agree, I do need to be in the room with Florie if it's an extended session because otherwise she'll jump the gate or try to squeeze through the bars (she's a little fatter now than when we first adopted her, but I think she can still get through the bars if she tried).

I will try to tape some cardboard up over the gate so she can't jump. The French door in the other room is very enticing for me because then I don't have to worry about the gate at all. But then Florie isn't in her own room, so maybe that's a factor. I'll start with taping up more cardboard. That will make things feel safer.

 

[calicosrspecial]

The move did go well, I'm happy about that too.

I will focus on extending the length of the sessions, where possible, and trying to get Hawthorne to get bored and walk away. I agree, I do need to be in the room with Florie if it's an extended session because otherwise she'll jump the gate or try to squeeze through the bars (she's a little fatter now than when we first adopted her, but I think she can still get through the bars if she tried).

I will try to tape some cardboard up over the gate so she can't jump. The French door in the other room is very enticing for me because then I don't have to worry about the gate at all. But then Florie isn't in her own room, so maybe that's a factor. I'll start with taping up more cardboard. That will make things feel safer.

"The move did go well, I'm happy about that too. " - Agreed.

"I will focus on extending the length of the sessions, where possible, and trying to get Hawthorne to get bored and walk away." - Great

" I agree, I do need to be in the room with Florie if it's an extended session because otherwise she'll jump the gate or try to squeeze through the bars (she's a little fatter now than when we first adopted her, but I think she can still get through the bars if she tried)." - DO you really think she would jump the gate or squeeze through with Hawthorne there? I do think it is good as it helps distracting her and therefore shows Hawthorne she is not focused (threatening) him.

"I will try to tape some cardboard up over the gate so she can't jump." - Ok. Just to be careful.

" The French door in the other room is very enticing for me because then I don't have to worry about the gate at all." - Yes. BUT the one thing I worry is since the other can't get to them they might be more sticky and aggressive at the door knowing they can't be hurt. Sometimes a little uncertainty (fear?) can actually help them "be good".

"But then Florie isn't in her own room, so maybe that's a factor." - Yes, that is another issue as she is less confident there and therefore more likely to feel less secure and more defensive. :/

" I'll start with taping up more cardboard. That will make things feel safer. " - Ok. Feelings are important. It does not hurt.

How are they doing today? Hawthorne is either in the office or roaming the rest of the house now, correct?

 

[Furmama22]

"The move did go well, I'm happy about that too. " - Agreed.

"I will focus on extending the length of the sessions, where possible, and trying to get Hawthorne to get bored and walk away." - Great

" I agree, I do need to be in the room with Florie if it's an extended session because otherwise she'll jump the gate or try to squeeze through the bars (she's a little fatter now than when we first adopted her, but I think she can still get through the bars if she tried)." - DO you really think she would jump the gate or squeeze through with Hawthorne there? I do think it is good as it helps distracting her and therefore shows Hawthorne she is not focused (threatening) him.

"I will try to tape some cardboard up over the gate so she can't jump." - Ok. Just to be careful.

" The French door in the other room is very enticing for me because then I don't have to worry about the gate at all." - Yes. BUT the one thing I worry is since the other can't get to them they might be more sticky and aggressive at the door knowing they can't be hurt. Sometimes a little uncertainty (fear?) can actually help them "be good".

"But then Florie isn't in her own room, so maybe that's a factor." - Yes, that is another issue as she is less confident there and therefore more likely to feel less secure and more defensive. :/

" I'll start with taping up more cardboard. That will make things feel safer. " - Ok. Feelings are important. It does not hurt.

How are they doing today? Hawthorne is either in the office or roaming the rest of the house now, correct?

Hello! Yes, I can see about the french door making them a bit more aggressive because it is 'safer.' I get that for sure.

They're good today! Breakfast was fine - Florie was waiting a little further from the door than usual, hahah - she obviously remembered yesterday. She preferred to eat a bit away from the gate - off to the side. Hawthorne came to the gate to peek and then went to eat his meal too. He grazes, usually. He ate a few bites then left.

I haven't done any other visual access visits yet.

And you bet! Hawthorne is out wandering the house now, with access to me in the office if he wants it. He was sleeping on Florie's bed earlier in the office with me. She's currently in the main bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room). Other than Hawthorne's unhappiness at being closed in anywhere, the room swapping is very easy now.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hello! Yes, I can see about the french door making them a bit more aggressive because it is 'safer.' I get that for sure.

They're good today! Breakfast was fine - Florie was waiting a little further from the door than usual, hahah - she obviously remembered yesterday. She preferred to eat a bit away from the gate - off to the side. Hawthorne came to the gate to peek and then went to eat his meal too. He grazes, usually. He ate a few bites then left.

I haven't done any other visual access visits yet.

And you bet! Hawthorne is out wandering the house now, with access to me in the office if he wants it. He was sleeping on Florie's bed earlier in the office with me. She's currently in the main bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room). Other than Hawthorne's unhappiness at being closed in anywhere, the room swapping is very easy now.

"Hello! Yes, I can see about the french door making them a bit more aggressive because it is 'safer.' I get that for sure." - Yes.

"They're good today! Breakfast was fine - Florie was waiting a little further from the door than usual, hahah - she obviously remembered yesterday." - That is great. Did Hawthorne then behave a bit better?

"She preferred to eat a bit away from the gate - off to the side. " - That is fine. Tells me she is still uncertain. BUT she ate so isn't that uncertain.

"Hawthorne came to the gate to peek and then went to eat his meal too. He grazes, usually. He ate a few bites then left." - EXACTLY what we would want to see. AWESOME!!

"I haven't done any other visual access visits yet." - Ok, that is fine.

"And you bet! Hawthorne is out wandering the house now, with access to me in the office if he wants it. He was sleeping on Florie's bed earlier in the office with me. She's currently in the main bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room). Other than Hawthorne's unhappiness at being closed in anywhere, the room swapping is very easy now." - FANTASTIC!!!

Yep, they are doing great. Keep up the great work.

 

[Furmama22]

"Hello! Yes, I can see about the french door making them a bit more aggressive because it is 'safer.' I get that for sure." - Yes.

"They're good today! Breakfast was fine - Florie was waiting a little further from the door than usual, hahah - she obviously remembered yesterday." - That is great. Did Hawthorne then behave a bit better?

"She preferred to eat a bit away from the gate - off to the side. " - That is fine. Tells me she is still uncertain. BUT she ate so isn't that uncertain.

"Hawthorne came to the gate to peek and then went to eat his meal too. He grazes, usually. He ate a few bites then left." - EXACTLY what we would want to see. AWESOME!!

"I haven't done any other visual access visits yet." - Ok, that is fine.

"And you bet! Hawthorne is out wandering the house now, with access to me in the office if he wants it. He was sleeping on Florie's bed earlier in the office with me. She's currently in the main bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room). Other than Hawthorne's unhappiness at being closed in anywhere, the room swapping is very easy now." - FANTASTIC!!!

Yep, they are doing great. Keep up the great work.

We're keeping at it! Hawthorne is great at breakfast, usually. He eats and then leaves, and ignores her. This morning she hissed and growled right off the bat. But she ate her meal too - she just wanted it a bit further away so she felt more secure.

I've taped up an enormous piece of cardboard and she definitely can't jump it. We tested. This afternoon I'll try an extended session maybe. Would it be ok to do a session with her in the other bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room) and Hawthorne out? She spends the afternoon in there so that would be easiest. Or will she feel insecure being in a different room?

And, should we ever do it with HER out and Hawthorne in the room or will that just upset him?

I'm having trouble coming up with a good routine for treat times and sessions. Because of the room swapping, there aren't many occasions where he has been outside in the main space for awhile and she has been in her room (the ideal combo for him being relaxed). It's really only breakfast and the evening. The rest of the time it's her out, him in, or her in his room, or so on. Really it would be better if my office weren't also Florie's room but alas, too late for that.

 

[calicosrspecial]

We're keeping at it! Hawthorne is great at breakfast, usually. He eats and then leaves, and ignores her. This morning she hissed and growled right off the bat. But she ate her meal too - she just wanted it a bit further away so she felt more secure.

I've taped up an enormous piece of cardboard and she definitely can't jump it. We tested. This afternoon I'll try an extended session maybe. Would it be ok to do a session with her in the other bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room) and Hawthorne out? She spends the afternoon in there so that would be easiest. Or will she feel insecure being in a different room?

And, should we ever do it with HER out and Hawthorne in the room or will that just upset him?

I'm having trouble coming up with a good routine for treat times and sessions. Because of the room swapping, there aren't many occasions where he has been outside in the main space for awhile and she has been in her room (the ideal combo for him being relaxed). It's really only breakfast and the evening. The rest of the time it's her out, him in, or her in his room, or so on. Really it would be better if my office weren't also Florie's room but alas, too late for that.

"We're keeping at it! Hawthorne is great at breakfast, usually. He eats and then leaves, and ignores her." - Awesome!!! Exactly what we want to see. And if he does it in the morning he can do it at other times. It actually sounds like Hawthorne is making huge progress. He has been my key so this is great.

"This morning she hissed and growled right off the bat." - Yep. How did he respond?

" But she ate her meal too - she just wanted it a bit further away so she felt more secure." - Totally fine. The fact she ate it is perfect.

"I've taped up an enormous piece of cardboard and she definitely can't jump it. We tested." - Great. Does it make it harder or more difficult to get in and out?

" This afternoon I'll try an extended session maybe." - Great

"Would it be ok to do a session with her in the other bedroom (i.e. Hawthorne's room) and Hawthorne out? " - Sure. Will you put up a gate?

"She spends the afternoon in there so that would be easiest. Or will she feel insecure being in a different room?" - She might be a little uncertain but it should be fine. She does well in there and knows it.

"And, should we ever do it with HER out and Hawthorne in the room or will that just upset him?" - Yeah, I don't want to do that because he is more territorial possibly even in this new house. And I don't think it really matters. I want to do it where it maximizes the confidence of both cats. She is very secure in that office so that maximizes the confidence.

"I'm having trouble coming up with a good routine for treat times and sessions." - Yes, understandably.

" Because of the room swapping, there aren't many occasions where he has been outside in the main space for awhile and she has been in her room (the ideal combo for him being relaxed). It's really only breakfast and the evening." - Exactly. :/

" The rest of the time it's her out, him in, or her in his room, or so on. " - Yes.

So the options are -

1 -do sessions with her in his room and him out. (Probably our first choice and let's see how it goes. I suspect well after the first few times. I do worry that him seeing her in there might be a territorial issue)

2 - do sessions with him in the office and her out and about (Our second choice since he may feel restricted in being in the room only AND she might want to try to get into "her" room.

3 - do sessions in the french door room - and we can see if the theory of safety might allow escalation though it is pretty "neutral" territory since it seems no one (cats) really spends much time in there

Our first face to face I think will be in her room/the office.


"Really it would be better if my office weren't also Florie's room but alas, too late for that. " - Well, maybe. It is good that she has that human interaction/scent and Hawthorne's scent in there. I actually think it is fine.

So if possible let's try the french door room and see how it goes. Do it exactly like you would in "her room" the office.

One thing I want to make sure is you have time, work doesn't cause anxiety for you, stress. So getting a calm 5 or 10 minutes would be good.

And we'll see how it goes. It might go fine the first time or two then get a little wild then we'll see if it settles down (I suspect it will).

I think they are pretty well down the path so I don't think there is a big risk of a setback.

Let me know if that makes sense. Ask anything for clarification.