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Hi! Thanks for the update. Kittens are always exciting, I hope you share some pics with us. About the fighting, that's probably hormones, hers and his if he's not neutered.
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Took In A Feral Or Stray Kitten
- Thread starter ChrisValentine
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Well... she’s given birth.
Found her hidden and heard her meow and then a tiny mew and saw two kittens
We saw her give birth to the third. We had to pull the sack over her as EJ wasn’t bothered by it at all and just left it....
The third is very weak and not really trying to suckle
Also looks like it’s got a deformed paw. It’s also half the size of the other two.
Found out she had a kitten before the two we saw, she had killed her first one by lying on it.
It’s going to be a sleepless night
Really don’t know what to do about the weaker one. Don’t think it’ll survive the night. Nothing here to manually feed it with till the morning....
Found her hidden and heard her meow and then a tiny mew and saw two kittens
We saw her give birth to the third. We had to pull the sack over her as EJ wasn’t bothered by it at all and just left it....
The third is very weak and not really trying to suckle
Also looks like it’s got a deformed paw. It’s also half the size of the other two.
Found out she had a kitten before the two we saw, she had killed her first one by lying on it.
It’s going to be a sleepless night
Really don’t know what to do about the weaker one. Don’t think it’ll survive the night. Nothing here to manually feed it with till the morning....
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I'm so sorry. That's a rough thing to go through. You don't have any syringes to try to feed the third one? Maybe somebody will have some advice...
ChrisValentine
Have you got any honey? Smear a little of that on the kittens lips, the sugar will give him/her a bit of a boost.Could you start a new thread about the kittens in our Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care forum? You'll get plenty of good advice there.
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Chris, how is it going today? Is #3 still alive?
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Hello.
Well, bit of an update. Went to the vets (got an emergency appointment).
Mum and two kittens are really healthy and doing fine.
Black has a foot defect that we might be able to sort out in a few months with splint or surgery...or amputate. She’s not in pain by it though, as she's ironically the more active of the kittens and just waddles around the box, climbing over the mum and being a general nuisance
The bad part is she’s got a cleft palette. She'll need surgery possible a few, to rectify that in a few months. So we’ve got to bottle feed every two hours for 3 months... if she can survive...
I tried to get some sleep last night, but due to being a light sleeper, everytime I heard Blacks high pitch shrieking I was woken up. Most of the time it was just her walking around the box. But it was making EJ panic and this was making her squash the other kittens. This means I'm nearing 35 hours no sleep. Needs feeding again in 30 minutes...
On the positive though. After hand feeding the second 5ml of replacement milk portion (most scary thing I've ever done, literally feel like crying with stress whilst doing it!).
We offered Black to EJs milk and she started suckling herself!!
We've still got to do the 5ml, but then try and get her to suckle again. 2/4 times so far. But she can't find it herself.
Proving to be a proper fighter, but trying not to be too optimistic.
Thanks for the advice again.
Well, bit of an update. Went to the vets (got an emergency appointment).
Mum and two kittens are really healthy and doing fine.
Black has a foot defect that we might be able to sort out in a few months with splint or surgery...or amputate. She’s not in pain by it though, as she's ironically the more active of the kittens and just waddles around the box, climbing over the mum and being a general nuisance
The bad part is she’s got a cleft palette. She'll need surgery possible a few, to rectify that in a few months. So we’ve got to bottle feed every two hours for 3 months... if she can survive...
I tried to get some sleep last night, but due to being a light sleeper, everytime I heard Blacks high pitch shrieking I was woken up. Most of the time it was just her walking around the box. But it was making EJ panic and this was making her squash the other kittens. This means I'm nearing 35 hours no sleep. Needs feeding again in 30 minutes...
On the positive though. After hand feeding the second 5ml of replacement milk portion (most scary thing I've ever done, literally feel like crying with stress whilst doing it!).
We offered Black to EJs milk and she started suckling herself!!
We've still got to do the 5ml, but then try and get her to suckle again. 2/4 times so far. But she can't find it herself.
Proving to be a proper fighter, but trying not to be too optimistic.
Thanks for the advice again.
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You're doing a great job! I hope you can get some sleep tonight. Beautiful kittens.
Awww! Gorgeous little things!
I don't have any experience of kittens with cleft palette. I wonder if any of our kitten people have any advice they could give you.
StefanZ
@Sarthur2
catwoman707
There is a YouTube channel about a kitten with a cleft palette. Might be a few tips on here?
I don't have any experience of kittens with cleft palette. I wonder if any of our kitten people have any advice they could give you.
StefanZ
@Sarthur2
catwoman707
There is a YouTube channel about a kitten with a cleft palette. Might be a few tips on here?
I dont really know much about cleft palates, but some.
In practice they often die / pts, but if its because they are doomed, or simply because most people dont know what to do - I dont know. Probably the other. If the kitten has a caretaking momma people tend to let the kitten nurse with momma... And the kitten dies.
Anyway, I know some do survive. and if they survive childhood, surgery isnt always necessary. Although of course good to do it, when they are older and more healthy and stable.
What is to try, is to handfeed them with a little syringe or a dropper.
Because, cleft palate causes there is no vacuum necessary to suckle. So they cant suckle or are at best, weak sucklers.
But if the damages arent too great, they can swallow.
And voilá!
Handfeeding with syringe / dropper works hopefully nicely.
If momma is still willing to clean, give warmth etc, its good. If not, you must do it yourself this too.
It will still be a fight uphill esp if the kitten has other deformities too, but there should be a fighting chance if you fight on.
I would recommend raw goats milk as food. Pasterurized goats milk OK but not the same edge. Powdered KMR is the main alternative.
ChrisValentine
In practice they often die / pts, but if its because they are doomed, or simply because most people dont know what to do - I dont know. Probably the other. If the kitten has a caretaking momma people tend to let the kitten nurse with momma... And the kitten dies.
Anyway, I know some do survive. and if they survive childhood, surgery isnt always necessary. Although of course good to do it, when they are older and more healthy and stable.
What is to try, is to handfeed them with a little syringe or a dropper.
Because, cleft palate causes there is no vacuum necessary to suckle. So they cant suckle or are at best, weak sucklers.
But if the damages arent too great, they can swallow.
And voilá!
Handfeeding with syringe / dropper works hopefully nicely.
If momma is still willing to clean, give warmth etc, its good. If not, you must do it yourself this too.
It will still be a fight uphill esp if the kitten has other deformities too, but there should be a fighting chance if you fight on.
I would recommend raw goats milk as food. Pasterurized goats milk OK but not the same edge. Powdered KMR is the main alternative.
ChrisValentine
Ps. Reading the main post, I see you had already began to follow my main advices. Yay!
The little one even tries to suckle on momma! Nice!
Weigh her every day (the others too) so you see if she gains properly. This most important if you let Blackie nurse much on momma.
If she gets anything, or if its mostly for the comforting...
Swell momma isnt rejecting the baby. Its always a good help.
So yeah I think Blackies practical chances are good. No quaranties but as she is feisty and a fighter, well more than 50%.
How much to give? The rule of thumb is 8ml / 30 grammes / a day, so a kitten of 100 grammes should have 25-30 ml goats milk or KMr a day. More is allowed if she wants and manages.
She should add 10+ grammes a day if we are to be happy.
The little one even tries to suckle on momma! Nice!
Weigh her every day (the others too) so you see if she gains properly. This most important if you let Blackie nurse much on momma.
If she gets anything, or if its mostly for the comforting...
Swell momma isnt rejecting the baby. Its always a good help.
So yeah I think Blackies practical chances are good. No quaranties but as she is feisty and a fighter, well more than 50%.
How much to give? The rule of thumb is 8ml / 30 grammes / a day, so a kitten of 100 grammes should have 25-30 ml goats milk or KMr a day. More is allowed if she wants and manages.
She should add 10+ grammes a day if we are to be happy.
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Not sure if we're a step forwards or back now...
Hand feeding Black for the first time today (we kept just trying to get her to suckle, which she was doing), and she kept meowing, so EJ straight away sat up and started meowing back.. She then came right up to us meowing and trying to swipe Black out of our hands.
We put her back and EJ kept leaving the room and hiding in a box in the hall. Then she came back, grabbed Black and ran off with her. I picked Black up and put her back with the other kittens and again EJ grabbed her and went away with it.
With EJ and Black in the lone box in the hall, I put Black on EJ to suckle, when she eventually found it, she started suckling and EJ relaxed and started purring.
I left her 10 minutes, keeping my eye on them incase she killed Black. But she started cleaning her and trying to make her go to the toilet.
I've now grabbed the box from the hall and put it next to the other box with the two kittens. I moved Black in with them. Straight away, EJ has grabbed Black and gone to the lone box and cuddled down with her and cleaned her....
This gives me a few ideas.
1. She's realllllly devious and is trying to look like she cares, so that she can kill Black when we're not in the room.
2. She realises it's the weak one, so giving her a more "one on one" approach? Showing that she does care, otherwise surely she'd separate Black and just leave her.....
My head hurts.
Hand feeding Black for the first time today (we kept just trying to get her to suckle, which she was doing), and she kept meowing, so EJ straight away sat up and started meowing back.. She then came right up to us meowing and trying to swipe Black out of our hands.
We put her back and EJ kept leaving the room and hiding in a box in the hall. Then she came back, grabbed Black and ran off with her. I picked Black up and put her back with the other kittens and again EJ grabbed her and went away with it.
With EJ and Black in the lone box in the hall, I put Black on EJ to suckle, when she eventually found it, she started suckling and EJ relaxed and started purring.
I left her 10 minutes, keeping my eye on them incase she killed Black. But she started cleaning her and trying to make her go to the toilet.
I've now grabbed the box from the hall and put it next to the other box with the two kittens. I moved Black in with them. Straight away, EJ has grabbed Black and gone to the lone box and cuddled down with her and cleaned her....
This gives me a few ideas.
1. She's realllllly devious and is trying to look like she cares, so that she can kill Black when we're not in the room.
2. She realises it's the weak one, so giving her a more "one on one" approach? Showing that she does care, otherwise surely she'd separate Black and just leave her.....
My head hurts.
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I'm hoping for #2. Besides, I don't think cats can be devious like that, can they?
I agree, mom is not plotting to appear caring only to kill her baby.
Nature has a funny way with mamas, we all know that it's common for something to be wrong with a baby and mom considers kit a risk to her and the others so she will remove it from the rest so as to not attract predators due to this 'weak link'.
Yet there are other times that a mom will pick up on something being wrong and choose to give extra TLC to it.
Go figure that one, I sure can't.
As for eating kit, moms only seem to do this when she is unable to remove the weaker kit away from the nest. From what I have experienced at least.
The key here is to weigh the baby to be sure of daily gaining, a good 10 grams a day. Some clefts are not as severe as others and can survive and be fine, while others are not able to function properly and unable to take in enough to thrive.
Nature has a funny way with mamas, we all know that it's common for something to be wrong with a baby and mom considers kit a risk to her and the others so she will remove it from the rest so as to not attract predators due to this 'weak link'.
Yet there are other times that a mom will pick up on something being wrong and choose to give extra TLC to it.
Go figure that one, I sure can't.
As for eating kit, moms only seem to do this when she is unable to remove the weaker kit away from the nest. From what I have experienced at least.
The key here is to weigh the baby to be sure of daily gaining, a good 10 grams a day. Some clefts are not as severe as others and can survive and be fine, while others are not able to function properly and unable to take in enough to thrive.
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Sad to say I chose to get Black put down today. We started losing her during the night and today she was really lethargic and not wanting to feed.
Took her to the vets and they basically said that she was suffering and even with fluids, she’d struggle to get to the next day.
As much as we wanted to keep her fighting, I couldn’t let her keep suffering because of our wants and needs.
She’s been a fighter and we’re all distraught to say the least.
EJ knew she was weak and suffering. But instead of doing what most animals do, and kill the weak or take the healthy offspring away. She separated Black from the others to take more care of it, so that Black wasn’t pushed out when feeding. When they were all together, EJ always had Black cuddled between her paws....
I can atleast say she was truly loved in the few days she was alive...
Took her to the vets and they basically said that she was suffering and even with fluids, she’d struggle to get to the next day.
As much as we wanted to keep her fighting, I couldn’t let her keep suffering because of our wants and needs.
She’s been a fighter and we’re all distraught to say the least.
EJ knew she was weak and suffering. But instead of doing what most animals do, and kill the weak or take the healthy offspring away. She separated Black from the others to take more care of it, so that Black wasn’t pushed out when feeding. When they were all together, EJ always had Black cuddled between her paws....
I can atleast say she was truly loved in the few days she was alive...
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Ah Chris, so sorry to hear that you lost Black! You and EJ are doing a great job with the kittens. I hope things go well from now on.
Oh no! I'm so sorry Chris.
Rest in peace little Black.
How are EJ and the other kittens doing? Please keep us updated on their progress. The best way to keep track of how healthy they are is to weigh them every day. If you know anyone who bakes ask if you can borrow their kitchen scales. You need to weigh them at the same time every day so you can make sure they keep gaining. If they don't gain every day it means something is wrong, so be prepared to feed them a little extra yourself.
Please keep us posted.
Rest in peace little Black.
How are EJ and the other kittens doing? Please keep us updated on their progress. The best way to keep track of how healthy they are is to weigh them every day. If you know anyone who bakes ask if you can borrow their kitchen scales. You need to weigh them at the same time every day so you can make sure they keep gaining. If they don't gain every day it means something is wrong, so be prepared to feed them a little extra yourself.
Please keep us posted.
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Thank you.
We did the only sensible thing and got very drunk and emotional in her memory.
EJ and the other kittens are doing fine thank you. Both putting on around 12g a day. Fat little babies
We’re waiting till they’re a bit older and we’re going to adopt a rescue kitten of a similar age so that EJ has company when my mum takes the two kittens. Again, kinda in Blacks memory.
We did the only sensible thing and got very drunk and emotional in her memory.
EJ and the other kittens are doing fine thank you. Both putting on around 12g a day. Fat little babies
We’re waiting till they’re a bit older and we’re going to adopt a rescue kitten of a similar age so that EJ has company when my mum takes the two kittens. Again, kinda in Blacks memory.
Oh, is your mum keeping the kittens? That's great, I'm glad to hear you have a home lined up already.
Try to get an appointment to have EJ spayed when her kittens get to the 6 week mark. They'll be on solid food by then and she'll probably go into heat. She'll still be able to nurse the kittens after she is spayed, but you won't have to worry about another litter of kittens.
Kittens can have their first vaccines when they get to 600 grams and be spayed/neutered at 1 kilo.
Do you know if you have boys or girls yet?
Try to get an appointment to have EJ spayed when her kittens get to the 6 week mark. They'll be on solid food by then and she'll probably go into heat. She'll still be able to nurse the kittens after she is spayed, but you won't have to worry about another litter of kittens.
Kittens can have their first vaccines when they get to 600 grams and be spayed/neutered at 1 kilo.
Do you know if you have boys or girls yet?
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Yeah, my mum is having one kitten, sister is having the other one and we were supposed to keep Black.
EJ will definitely be spayed when theyre old enough. Get them all checked again and any vaccines etc.
One boy and one girl
They’re having little dreams at the moment. Aaaaannnnd, they like their bellies getting tickled. Paws up in the air and everything.
If you’ve read all my posts you’ll get the “belly belly, belly belly, belly belly”! As there’s 3 now!
EJ will definitely be spayed when theyre old enough. Get them all checked again and any vaccines etc.
One boy and one girl
They’re having little dreams at the moment. Aaaaannnnd, they like their bellies getting tickled. Paws up in the air and everything.
If you’ve read all my posts you’ll get the “belly belly, belly belly, belly belly”! As there’s 3 now!
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