Raw diet for a 3 mos senitive stomach kitten

[auntie crazy]

Just want to touch on a few of the many points being discussed:

Yes, certainly, cats can have negative reactions to the same protein source processed in different ways; most often, as FurryFriends said, it's to the highly processed version. As Mschuer highlighted, part of the problem is that important enzymes and other nutrients naturally present in flesh and organs are destroyed or altered in commercial processing.

I second Mschauer on the organs, too. Even at a full 25% of the diet, Koobe, you don't need to make them a part of the raw foods offered. And I would be especially leery of offering liver until and unless you go fully raw, as it is a primary source of Vit A, which is also provided (to varying and unknown degrees) by the commercial products. Vit A is not water soluble and you don't want to overfeed it.

It's been my experience that folks who go to the lengths required to feed raw also do the necessary research to understand it, and I personally know of no full-time raw feeder who does not comprehend the extreme importance of a full and balanced menu.

However, Yosemite's caution is well-placed - folks new to the raw-feeding concept do need to have that importance impressed upon them. Feeding raw is absolutely not rocket science and there is not one person on this board who isn't fully capable of understanding it - but it does require research, understanding and a commitment to detail.

Sounds to me like you're on the right track, Koobe. Just keep digging until you get all the information you need!

BTW, Leslie - thank you for clarifying my descriptions. Obviously, I was trying to be overly-specific and lost the forest for the trees.

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by koobe

Thank you for all your inputs! It really helps for a newbie like me.

Does where the kitten come from has a relationship of the acceptance of raw food? For example, Cheetah was a stray without a mother before entering into the shelter. So maybe he had some experience with raw food? Is that why he loves chicken more than dry food?

Panther came to Humane Society from a high kill shelter, whether it is an owner surrender or a stray, I was not given that information. So is it possible that he is liking the dry food more because he was being fed with dry food since very young?

Yes, and yes.

Cats have a distinctive hunting imperative that pushes them to hunt for a variety of animals, but that imperative is strongly influenced by the presence of their mother and what she ate, what they eat during their first year of life, and by negative reactions to foods.

This is why cats seem to become "bored" with foods so quickly.

In feeding a large variety of products to my cats (back when I still fed canned), I was actually, albeit unknowingly, mimicking their own hunting behaviors.

Check out this very interesting (well - to me, anyway!) study introduced at the WALTHAM International Sciences Symposia: The Evolutionary Basis for the Feeding Behavior of Domestic Dogs & Cats.

Pretty cool stuff, eh?!

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Just want to touch on a few of the many points being discussed:

Yes, certainly, cats can have negative reactions to the same protein source processed in different ways; most often, as FurryFriends said, it's to the highly processed version. As Mschuer highlighted, part of the problem is that important enzymes and other nutrients naturally present in flesh and organs are destroyed or altered in commercial processing.

I second Mschauer on the organs, too. Even at a full 25% of the diet, Koobe, you don't need to make them a part of the raw foods offered. And I would be especially leery of offering liver until and unless you go fully raw, as it is a primary source of Vit A, which is also provided (to varying and unknown degrees) by the commercial products. Vit A is not water soluble and you don't want to overfeed it.

It's been my experience that folks who go to the lengths required to feed raw also do the necessary research to understand it, and I personally know of no full-time raw feeder who does not comprehend the extreme importance of a full and balanced menu.

However, Yosemite's caution is well-placed - folks new to the raw-feeding concept do need to have that importance impressed upon them. Feeding raw is absolutely not rocket science and there is not one person on this board who isn't fully capable of understanding it - but it does require research, understanding and a commitment to detail.

Sounds to me like you're on the right track, Koobe. Just keep digging until you get all the information you need!

BTW, Leslie - thank you for clarifying my descriptions. Obviously, I was trying to be overly-specific and lost the forest for the trees.

So Auntie Crazy, if I feed them with 25% raw food, will costco packaged chicken acceptable. I don't think I get the idea of which type of chicken is acceptable for raw feeding. I only know it does not need to be organic. But there are still organic packaged chicken in costco too.

 

[auntie crazy]

Organic meat and organ products are just as much healthier for your cat as they are for you, however, you are correct, they are not critical to a raw-fed cat's diet.

As long as the meats are not enhanced with extra salt or marinades, etc., I do not believe it matters what meats you use for that 25%, or where you purchase them from. Mix it up a bit. Try chicken for a few days, then try beef for another few days, and so on. Have fun with it! It'll keep your cat interested and if you run into any digestive problems, you'll be able to pinpoint which meats may have caused it.

I wouldn't expect any issues, but it's part of the raw-feeding process to watch for them, of course.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by koobe

So Auntie Crazy, if I feed them with 25% raw food, will costco packaged chicken acceptable. I don't think I get the idea of which type of chicken is acceptable for raw feeding. I only know it does not need to be organic. But there are still organic packaged chicken in costco too.

I'm not Auntie but I'll answer anyway!

There is no "unacceptable" meat source, chicken or otherwise. Some people develop personal preferences organic, free range, etc) for what they want their furkids to eat but anything is OK.

 

[koobe]

My boys are feeling so much love here from everyone. Thank you very much. I will keep posting the updates.

 

[furryfriends50]

Originally Posted by carolinalima

Very strange statement... IMO and experience Not true, my Bugsy can prove it. A cat who is allergic to a type of meat, is allergic to the meat itself, not to the way it is processed.

so have you ever given bugsy raw chicken? if you haven't how do you know?

It is true in many cats. Maybe you have that small percentage that can't have any of that protein source. But then maybe he would do just fine on raw food. I think that raw will work for any cat IF they are started off on raw.

 

[koobe]

Tonight, I came home and there were stool markings on the wall. I am guessing Cheetah jetstreamed it.

I prepared a bowl of cooked chicken breast for Cheetah, and a bowl of cooked chicken breast with a teaspoon of canned food for Panther.

Cheetah ate very little of it, and Panther basically just licked off and canned food. Panther is the lazy one on chewing, even when I minced the cooked chicken. I tried to put Cheetah and his food in a separate room, and he only took a few more bites.

Then a handed a piece of raw chicken breast to Cheetah, about the size of 1/3 of a penny. He smelt it for a second and started to chew on it, no resistance at all. When he was chewing, Panther went over and smelt his mouth and Cheetah growled! I handed a piece to Panther, and he took it too.

I handed 2 more pieces of each one of them. Then I put 3 little pieces with a tablespoon of cooked chicken, trying to see if they only eat it because I handled it to them. Cheetah smelt it, and walked away.

Then I cut 2 more small pieces and this time put it on top of the cooked chicken and put the bowl in front of Cheetah. He immediately picked the raw piece and started chewing. Panther came over and started picking up pieces in the bowl.

They probably ate some cooked chicken along with the raw ones. But when they walked away from the bowl, there were only a small amount of cooked chicken left in the bowl. They ate all the raw ones. Even Panther, the lazy chewer, did not think twice before picking up a raw piece and starting chewing.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

so have you ever given bugsy raw chicken? if you haven't how do you know?

Of course if I said that is because I have

. Actually that was precisely one thing that helped me to pinpoint Chicken - his reaction to raw chicken was the most violent he ever had - my theory is simply because there is much more chicken in a fillet than on commercial foods, where it is mixed with something else, so his reaction to it was stronger.
Which is also the reason why my vet told me point blank to stay away from raw, and stick with commercial diets - yes, he had to be taken to the vet because of diarrhea. Before anything is said, she did not tell me to go to Hill's, or any specific brand, but to stick with a commercial diet; she said for Bugsy it would be safer.
So there - he is allergic to chicken, no matter what form I give to him - and no, there is no way I will give raw chicken to him again based on this theory that he won't be allergic to raw.
Moreover, I respect raw, and I do think a vet should be behind it - if my vet hadn't told me that and I continued giving him raw chicken, I might be putting his health in danger. If I hadn't had the help of my two vets, I would not figure this allergy out, and would not have a healthy Bugsy with me today.

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by carolinalima

Of course if I said that is because I have

. Actually that was precisely one thing that helped me to pinpoint Chicken - his reaction to raw chicken was the most violent he ever had - my theory is simply because there is much more chicken in a fillet than on commercial foods, where it is mixed with something else, so his reaction to it was stronger.
Which is also the reason why my vet told me point blank to stay away from raw, and stick with commercial diets - yes, he had to be taken to the vet because of diarrhea. Before anything is said, she did not tell me to go to Hill's, or any specific brand, but to stick with a commercial diet; she said for Bugsy it would be safer.
So there - he is allergic to chicken, no matter what form I give to him - and no, there is no way I will give raw chicken to him again based on this theory that he won't be allergic to raw.
Moreover, I respect raw, and I do think a vet should be behind it - if my vet hadn't told me that and I continued giving him raw chicken, I might be putting his health in danger. If I hadn't had the help of my two vets, I would not figure this allergy out, and would not have a healthy Bugsy with me today.

Carolinalima, when you said the reaction is violent, do you mean diarrhea? throw up? or anything other reactions?

 

[sharky]

I can not answer for Carolina but in two of three mine pulled fur , vomited and had stool issues

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by koobe

Carolinalima, when you said the reaction is violent, do you mean diarrhea? throw up? or anything other reactions?

Violent diarrhea - he never vomited, just diarrhea... Liquid, like water, and a lot... To a point that he got lethargic, dehydrated, etc... So he needed to be taken in; this was one time the I could not control with probiotics, etc.

 

[carolina]

i forgot: he does itch too...
But during these acute flare ups - like the raw chicken instance it was the violent diarrhea that got noticed.

 

[autumnblueangel]

Try finding a cat food with the highest protein count you can find. They tend to be the more expensive brands. You will tell if a product is good by the richness of it's color and smell. I know Royal Canin has high protein, I know an Australian brand Optimun has a high protein count. I think Science Diet is similar in high protein and richness.

I had a similar problem with some of my cats, whom I suspect are suffering a juvenile form of feline hypertension, so whom I have to control their diet with good quality foods to maintain and promote weight gain.

Kaemaerra nearly died before I realised it was a food problem. She displayed similar symptoms to yours but at the extreme end. Explosive, uncontrolable diarreah or soft stools. Severe Dehydration. Poor coat condition. Failure to gain weight and at one point self imposed anorexia. I switched the foods, and within a week, she had put on 2lb and as long as I keep her off the

stuff, she stays healthy now.

I thought it was a an allergy to the stuff in the cheaper varieties, but I've since realised, it might be more to do with her, and her siblings being genetically inclined and a complication of the hypertension (among many) to need higher protein diets, because that's what the foods she can tolerate have in common.

Good Luck.

 

[koobe]

Cheetah *crossing my fingers* just has diarrhea so far. Today, he had a quick continuous hiccup-like "cough?". I was was so worried that he was going to throw up. It stopped after I get Panther stop playing with him.

His stool went from watery to creamy. I think he is fine with chicken, I am thinking almost any type of canned food is too high in fat for him right now. He is still having his dry food though.

I have also purchased the holistic pack today. I haven't used it yet, but at least it is good to have it ready.

 

[koobe]

Attachment 14062
Attachment 14063

Thank you for all your advices. Panther and Cheetah are saying "Thank you".

 

[sharky]

what adorable kitties

 

[koobe]

I bought some rad cat raw food from the store. I gave them about 0.8 oz each for snack on Wednesday. Both of them love it. Panther, who is not a big fan of wet food finished all his raw food.

 

[auntie crazy]

That's awesome, Koobe! Yay!!!

 

[sharky]

I will say this Rad cat stuff is evidently very tasty , I got some samples and 3 out of 5 ate it...