Raw diet for a 3 mos senitive stomach kitten

[koobe]

Originally Posted by carolinalima

Koobe - my post was not to say that your cat is allergic to chicken. The allergy to chicken was ONE EXAMPLE, more specifically what happened to my cat, how I found out, and how he is healthy today.
What I am saying, is that he can be allergic to SOMETHING in the food, and yes, that can be one type of meat, or something else. There are many things he could be allergic to it.
As I said:

Thank you, I will talk to the vet about it.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by koobe

Thank you, I will talk to the vet about it.

Good... your vet will be able to guide you in finding out what the problem is...

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

Actually raw chicken has plenty of taurine. The heart for example has a lot of taurine. All the dark meat in the chicken is great.

Also, most cats that are allergic to a protein source in a commercial food aren't allergic to it in the raw form.

Again, as I said, it is important to compare apples to apples. Many people believe they can throw down some raw chicken breast and that is better for their cats than canned or dry food - that is simply not true. Many of those first time raw feeders do not know they must include organ meat which isn't always available on the store shelves. I know I've not seen chicken hearts in my supermarket. Other vitamins and minerals also need to be added to the raw diet when it is being prepared by the owner. It's not simply a matter of giving them raw meat and mis-information can be lethal.

It is extremely important to read everything to understand the whole concept of what is being stated.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by koobe

We then found out Cheetah has very soft stool and after reading the vet records, we found out he is sensitive to Wellness and had diarrhea before when he consumes Wellness. We asked the vet in the shelter, and she told me the kittens in the shelter weren't even being fed with Wellness, they were being fed with California Natural.

When my Coco had loose stools I had some success with California Naturals Chicken and Rice (dry). I think because it is a simple formula. That is, it doesn't have a lot of fruits and veggies that an obligate carnivore's system isn't meant to digest in large quantities.

With Coco I found a digestive supplement firmed up her stool. Using the supplement I could feed her anything and she would have a firm stool. The supplement I used was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It contains prebiotics and probiotics and digestive enzymes. I suspected it was the digestive enzymes that helped her and for a short time tried a digestive enyzme only product and she did equally well with it. I also suspected she would do well on a raw diet since one difference between raw and processed foods is that raw foods retain the naturally occurring digestive enzymes that are destroyed in the production of processed foods.

I was recently able to get her switched a raw diet and, sure enough, she no longer needs the supplement.

The biggest problem now is about transitioning from dry/wet food diet to raw with a 20 lbs dry food and 12 cans of wet food in stock. And also how to adjust it for Cheetah with a sensitive stomach. And where can I shop for vitamin supplements to make my homemade raw food, etc. Is gorcery store prepacked chicken or forzen chicken good enough to make raw diet for my kittens?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

If I understand correctly, your primarily interest in a raw diet is as possible solution for loose stools. If so, you don't need to worry too much about all the details of raw feeding right away. You can first test whether raw will do him any good by feeding him some and seeing the results. If it is going to help with his loose stools you should see results within a day or two. For such a short trial it doesn't much matter what you feed him. Since he is a kitten I would give him some ground chicken or chicken cut into very small pieces. This won't be a balanced diet and shouldn't be fed for more than a few days but for your purposes a few days should be enough.

If you decide you're interested in feeding raw long term there is much
research you need to do to make sure you understand how to do it right. The
catinfo.org site already mentioned is a good one as is catnutrtion.org.

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Again, as I said, it is important to compare apples to apples. Many people believe they can throw down some raw chicken breast and that is better for their cats than canned or dry food - that is simply not true. Many of those first time raw feeders do not know they must include organ meat which isn't always available on the store shelves. I know I've not seen chicken hearts in my supermarket. Other vitamins and minerals also need to be added to the raw diet when it is being prepared by the owner. It's not simply a matter of giving them raw meat and mis-information can be lethal.

It is extremely important to read everything to understand the whole concept of what is being stated.

Hi Yosemite, Thank you for reminding.
I understand that the diet has to be balanced if I go raw feeding. I want to know what can I buy and what I can't buy. For organs, I can easily get them from chinese supermarkets nearby, so I am not worried. I see others here buys chicken from whole foods. I also see costco packaged chicken says no added hormones, so I wonder if I can use those.

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by mschauer

When my Coco had loose stools I had some success with California Naturals Chicken and Rice (dry). I think because it is a simple formula. That is, it doesn't have a lot of fruits and veggies that an obligate carnivore's system isn't meant to digest in large quantities.

With Coco I found a digestive supplement firmed up her stool. Using the supplement I could feed her anything and she would have a firm stool. The supplement I used was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It contains prebiotics and probiotics and digestive enzymes. I suspected it was the digestive enzymes that helped her and for a short time tried a digestive enyzme only product and she did equally well with it. I also suspected she would do well on a raw diet since one difference between raw and processed foods is that raw foods retain the naturally occurring digestive enzymes that are destroyed in the production of processed foods.

I was recently able to get her switched a raw diet and, sure enough, she no longer needs the supplement.



If I understand correctly, your primarily interest in a raw diet is as possible solution for loose stools. If so, you don't need to worry too much about all the details of raw feeding right away. You can first test whether raw will do him any good by feeding him some and seeing the results. If it is going to help with his loose stools you should see results within a day or two. For such a short trial it doesn't much matter what you feed him. Since he is a kitten I would give him some ground chicken or chicken cut into very small pieces. This won't be a balanced diet and shouldn't be fed for more than a few days but for your purposes a few days should be enough.

If you decide you're interested in feeding raw long term there is much
research you need to do to make sure you understand how to do it right. The
catinfo.org site already mentioned is a good one as is catnutrtion.org.

The reason I want to get Panther and Cheetah on raw diet, because I want them to be healthier. Especially for Cheetah since he has a sensitive stomach.
Cheetah hasn't have a solid hard stool since I have him. Panther, on the other hand was having solid ones until he was dewormed. But Panther's was toothpaste like after deworming, isn't that bad anyway.

I heard about active enzymes in the form of yogurt will also help firming up the stool.

I think what I am going to do is to give Cheetah steamed chicken along with dry food for 2-3 days. At least get him to a soft stool first, then I am going to throw 3 pieces of raw chicken at a time, and a piece of liver and organ per day (that is if he eats them). Then slowly increase the raw amount each day.

I will probably keep it until he has, say 25% of his food raw if it works well. Then I will not make any moves until I thoroughly research about raw feeding.

Any suggestions to my plan?

 

[sharky]

yogurt contains VERY few bacteria compared to a supplement ,... talk with the vet about that ...

IMHO dry and raw should not be feed together ... if you want to feed both feed one in the morning say dry and then raw in the evening.. They digest at far different rates and take different enzymes too...

FYI: Yes it is possible for a cat allergic to cooked or raw of a species NOT to have issue with the other... but that is a complicated theroy which I would have a hard time believeing outside the fact it has happened in my house with multiple animals

..

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by koobe

The reason I want to get Panther and Cheetah on raw diet, because I want them to be healthier. Especially for Cheetah since he has a sensitive stomach.

When you say Cheetah has a "sensitive stomach" are you referring to his loose stools or does he throw up??

Cheetah hasn't have a solid hard stool since I have him. Panther, on the other hand was having solid ones until he was dewormed. But Panther's was toothpaste like after deworming, isn't that bad anyway.

I heard about active enzymes in the form of yogurt will also help firming up the stool.

IMO you can get quicker results with a supplement. You don't have to stick with the supplement long term but if you find one that works it can be a valuable clue about what the problem is and how it might be resolved through diet change.

I think what I am going to do is to give Cheetah steamed chicken along with dry food for 2-3 days. At least get him to a soft stool first, then I am going to throw 3 pieces of raw chicken at a time, and a piece of liver and organ per day (that is if he eats them). Then slowly increase the raw amount each day.

I will probably keep it until he has, say 25% of his food raw if it works well. Then I will not make any moves until I thoroughly research about raw feeding.

Any suggestions to my plan?

Be careful not to give him too much liver at once. It can cause tummy upset with some cats.

Edit : With raw making up such a small percentage of the diet you may not need to bother with organs at all. I'm sure someone else here will know for sure about this.

A 25% raw diet may not be enough to resolve his loose stools but if you want to try that first I guess the result would tell you something.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by sharky

FYI: Yes it is possible for a cat allergic to cooked or raw of a species NOT to have issue with the other... but that is a complicated theroy which I would have a hard time believeing outside the fact it has happened in my house with multiple animals

..

When I've heard accounts of an animal being allergic to a processed protein but not to the same protein in raw form I've always wondered if it was really known that an actual allergy was involved. Did you know for sure, via a skin scratch test, that you were dealing with an allergy?

 

[koobe]

When you say Cheetah has a "sensitive stomach" are you referring to his loose stools or does he throw up??

Cheetah did not throw up at all. He is always waiting for wet food and does not like dry food that much. He likes to eat a lot and I feel like his little belly is going to explode.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by mschauer

When you say Cheetah has a "sensitive stomach" are you referring to his loose stools or does he throw up??

Cheetah did not throw up at all. He is always waiting for wet food and does not like dry food that much. He likes to eat a lot and I feel like his little belly is going to explode.

You're fortunate he doesn't throw up then! I sometimes have to take food away from Coco or else she'll inhale it so fast that she eats too much and it comes right back up about 5 or 10 minutes later!

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by mschauer

When I've heard accounts of an animal being allergic to a processed protein but not to the same protein in raw form I've always wondered if it was really known that an actual allergy was involved. Did you know for sure, via a skin scratch test, that you were dealing with an allergy?

not a scratch test ( IMHO they do not give accurate results) ... but yes confirmed via a allergy test.. in all three animals

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by koobe

You're fortunate he doesn't throw up then! I sometimes have to take food away from Coco or else she'll inhale it so fast that she eats too much and it comes right back up about 5 or 10 minutes later!

Yes, no complaints. I am having my fingers crossed, I hope I can figure out what the cause is soon. This poor little thing loves to eat, but he just can't eat anything he wants like Panther.

 

[koobe]

Originally Posted by sharky

not a scratch test ( IMHO they do not give accurate results) ... but yes confirmed via a allergy test.. in all three animals

A little bit off the topic about raw feeding.
So would you mind telling me how much money did you spend on the allergy tests altogether?

I am a first time cat owner and I am worried that I cannot afford the vet bills, not just for allergy test, but anthing else.

I want to buy a pet insurance, but I need to do some research to see if Cheetah's diarrhea will be considered as an existing condition, thus will not be insured.

I had a few dogs before and they never had big problems. So this is all new to me.

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by sharky

not a scratch test ( IMHO they do not give accurate results) ... but yes confirmed via a allergy test.. in all three animals

What test do you believe gives more accurate results?

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by mschauer

What test do you believe gives more accurate results?

I have linked it many times

.. blood is much more accurate than prick/scratch the one I use is more accurate than blood for me and the animals ..

As for cost ... Blood on one animal was 550 $ over a decade ago , blood on two RB babies within five yrs 200 and 150 $ .... Testing I do currently 45 a visit at one vet included with exam fee at other vet

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by sharky

I have linked it many times

.. blood is much more accurate than prick/scratch the one I use is more accurate than blood for me and the animals ..

As for cost ... Blood on one animal was 550 $ over a decade ago , blood on two RB babies within five yrs 200 and 150 $ .... Testing I do currently 45 a visit at one vet included with exam fee at other vet

My vet says the blood test is a "bunch of hooey".

Are you saying the test you use is neither a blood test nor a scratch test? If so, what is it? Intradermal?

 

[katgoddess]

Originally Posted by sharky

FYI: Yes it is possible for a cat allergic to cooked or raw of a species NOT to have issue with the other... but that is a complicated theroy which I would have a hard time believeing outside the fact it has happened in my house with multiple animals

..

I can attest to this. Very weird, but it does happen. My dog was first allergic to processed chicken (kibble). She had ear infections every time she ate chicken kibble, but was fine with cooked and raw chicken.

My cat is an odd one. He can eat processed chicken (currently California Natural Chicken & Brown Rice), but when I started giving him home-cooked chicken, he scratched himself bloody. I always thought it was impossible to be allergic to fresh chicken yet fine with processed, but I've been proven wrong.

My holistic vets have said this is possible as they have seen such cases. It was impossible to make the ER vet believe me though, but she also never fed her pets a fresh diet - only switched different kibbles around when they did have allergies.

 

[koobe]

Thank you for all your inputs! It really helps for a newbie like me.

Does where the kitten come from has a relationship of the acceptance of raw food? For example, Cheetah was a stray without a mother before entering into the shelter. So maybe he had some experience with raw food? Is that why he loves chicken more than dry food?

Panther came to Humane Society from a high kill shelter, whether it is an owner surrender or a stray, I was not given that information. So is it possible that he is liking the dry food more because he was being fed with dry food since very young?

 

[yosemite]

Originally Posted by KatGoddess

I can attest to this. Very weird, but it does happen. My dog was first allergic to processed chicken (kibble). She had ear infections every time she ate chicken kibble, but was fine with cooked and raw chicken.

My cat is an odd one. He can eat processed chicken (currently California Natural Chicken & Brown Rice), but when I started giving him home-cooked chicken, he scratched himself bloody. I always thought it was impossible to be allergic to fresh chicken yet fine with processed, but I've been proven wrong.

My holistic vets have said this is possible as they have seen such cases. It was impossible to make the ER vet believe me though, but she also never fed her pets a fresh diet - only switched different kibbles around when they did have allergies.

My SIL had the same experience. Her dog got terrible ear infections until they put him on a raw diet.