New to raw feeding and have questions!

[oakshimmer]

Well, IBD can be a really difficult problem.

BUT I do have an idea for you that might be worth a try. When Chumley had his major diarrhea for 7 months, pred was not an option for him because he's FIV+.
The holistic vet we finally found had us use a mixture of aloe vera juice and slippery elm bark powder. The local health food store carried both. The brand of aloe vera juice I bought (also available in Canada) is George's. It is not organic - but organic aloe vera juice is bitter. George's has no taste. The combination is very anti-inflammatory. The dose is 1/4 teaspoon of aloe vera juice mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of SEB. Mix it up, let it gel, and mix it in the food. We were to give this to Chumley twice a day, which we did. It really, really helped him.
And I don't remember - are you giving her a salmon oil or krill oil supplement? Because those are also very anti-inflammatory. Either one - use 500mg daily.
I'd try the aloe vera juice/SEB combo 2x a day for a couple of weeks, and then try the pred weaning again. If she still has the mucous problem, then pred it is. But it's worth a try!

Wow great idea!

Unfortunately I don't have a holistic vet I can go to for any help, so this is a wonderful idea.

I will be looking for this aloe vera juice, I have seen the SEB so that I can get.

No I have not been giving her any salmon oil or krill oil supplements, just the probiotic daily with her food. I will look into one or the other while I am out and about tomorrow. I would really love to have her off the pred one day.

that it will be possible. Thank-you for the tip. I will let you know what happens after a few weeks on it.

 

[ldg]

I'd recommend using all three (the aloe vera/SEB combo 2x a day, and the 500mg of salmon oil or krill oil once a day). :nod:

I do hope it helps! Keep us posted.

 

[whollycat]

When looking for Aloe Vera juice, watch out for potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate as they are both unsafe for kitties. Both of these are a common preservative in aloe vera juice. There is only one brand available without sodium benzoate in their products, George's Aloe Vera Juice (which Laurie recommended--just wanted to let you know why all brands are NOT safe for kitties). Another brand is Lily of the Desert, which while good, uses potassium sorbate for most of their product line. Therefore there is only ONE safe Lily of the Desert version--their pure preservative-free Aloe Vera Juice - Organic. (<==Just read labels carefully because the logo and other packaging information is very similar to their less "pure" items.)

I would get George's even if it meant ordering it online.

I'll be watching for updates!

 

[ldg]

Excellent info, Jules, as always. I didn't know this, and it's important to know!

 

[otto]

Do you have a recommendation for slippery elm brand too? I am following this closely because Mazy's problem while not potential IBD, may indeed be due to some inflammation. I guess I'll increase her krill to daily now, and I may try her on this anti-inflammatory concoction, along with the digestive enzymes, too.

What was the other thing someone recommended as anti-inflammatory, in one of Mazy's threads....was it rosemary? or evening primrose. I better find the thread.

(edit) found it, it was evening primrose oil :

I read on TCS about evening primrose oil for inflammation. Is this something you've tried ?

Don't mean to be hi-jacking the thread, but since we're talking about anti inflammatory agents, does anyone know any more about this?

 

[whollycat]

Do you have a recommendation for slippery elm brand too?

Some brands that are good:

Frontier - Bulk Slippery Elm Inner Bark Powder Certified Organic
Mountain Rose Herbs - Slippery Elm Bark Powder
Nature's Sunshine - Slippery Elm Bulk
NOW Foods - Slippery Elm Powder Vegetarian

If you have a health food in your area that sells bulk SEB powder (you get as much as you need and they bag it), that would also be pure SEB. If you can't find any of these brands (or bulk powder), just read labels carefully if getting capsule form to make sure there aren't any other ingredients added. With capsule form you usually have to use twice as much as you do with bulk powder.

Hope that helps a bit, Otto!

 

[oakshimmer]

OK so I got the SEB in capsule right now, and the George's aloe vera. :nod: I will be trying this out tonight. The oil was a bit pricey for me this time but it is on the list. Kitty seems to be feeling better too. Thanks for all the tips
everyone it really helps a lot! Hear goes nothing! :clap

 

[ldg]

I hope she likes the slippery elm bark. FYI, I buy the loose powder from the health food store - no brand, just organic whatever-it-is they carry. It has a distinct smell - and some of the kitties like it, and some won't eat it "hidden" in ANYTHING. Chum doesn't mind it, and just eats it if it's in his bowl. Lazlo HATES it, and I have to syringe him with it. Syringe a little, offer freeze dried meat treat, syringe a little more... I add water to it, otherwise it's just too gloppy.

 

[whollycat]

I hope she likes the slippery elm bark. FYI, I buy the loose powder from the health food store - no brand, just organic whatever-it-is they carry. It has a distinct smell - and some of the kitties like it, and some won't eat it "hidden" in ANYTHING. Chum doesn't mind it, and just eats it if it's in his bowl. Lazlo HATES it, and I have to syringe him with it. Syringe a little, offer freeze dried meat treat, syringe a little more... I add water to it, otherwise it's just too gloppy.

I buy the loose bulk form from an online health food store. No brand needed. Otto was asking about brands, so I gave brands.

I just didn't make it clear that you can just get bulk without it being a certain brand.

I will say that you should do a taste test before giving to kitties. If it has a bitter taste, throw it away--it's bad.

 

[carolina]

Yes she gets probiotic everyday, she has been getting some ever since I started her on the raw diet. I think that the last time we had a day or 2 of the mucus passing she was on the medication for her ear. But I still gave the probiotic and the issue passed after a couple of days.

It seems that she may need to be on the meds life long. The raw feeding has helped get her bowel movements under control,at least producing solid well formed poops as oppose to soft unformed ones. Since beginning the RAW diet I have seen a huge difference in her overall health. The IBD (if that's really what it is...) seems like it can not be cured for her with diet alone. But The raw diet has made it so she can live a much better life. That is all I can really ask for I suppose. So I guess keeping her on a steady regime is what is best for little Kitty. :nod:

On a positive note,:bigthumb: she has been getting a pretty good variety in her diet now. She gets NV Chicken, Duck, Lamb and Beef. Also a little beef offal from Carnivora. She seems to like it all, with the exception of her upset tummy tonight. I am glad she is doing well with all the flavors as I want to keep her interested and happy with her meals. She is no longer too interested in the Carnivora Chicken for some reason... not sure why she changed her mind with that brand.:dk: She is usually not a very fussy eater at all, but she seems to be becoming a bit of a fuss now that she is getting spoiled with all this REALfood! :lol3:

oh, I am so sorry I didn't catch This sooner :doh3: is it only mucous? If it is, did you add a different protein to her diet? If so, that's what it is.... Might have nothing to do with Ibd, and nothing to be concerned about it.... When kitties first start on raw and are not used to all the meats, changing the meats irritates the gut lining a bit and to protect the digestive system the body produces extra mucous.... That mucous is what you see expelled with the feces.... It really doesn't mean much, and it goes away as the kitty gets used to the meat.... It is also a good way to gauge if you are changing meats too often- you don't want to have that reaction all the time..... Anyways, just didn't want you to worry about something that's perfectly normal

 

[oakshimmer]

oh, I am so sorry I didn't catch This sooner :doh3: is it only mucous? If it is, did you add a different protein to her diet? If so, that's what it is.... Might have nothing to do with Ibd, and nothing to be concerned about it.... When kitties first start on raw and are not used to all the meats, changing the meats irritates the gut lining a bit and to protect the digestive system the body produces extra mucous.... That mucous is what you see expelled with the feces.... It really doesn't mean much, and it goes away as the kitty gets used to the meat.... It is also a good way to gauge if you are changing meats too often- you don't want to have that reaction all the time..... Anyways, just didn't want you to worry about something that's perfectly normal

Hmmm, maybe it was the beef I brought aboard.:dk: The mucus thing seemed to last a few days, it seems to be getting better. I did take it slow with the beef though, but it could be where the problem started. I did get the slippery elm bark and aloe, and I have had no issues giving it to Kitty. She seems to really like it too. I am glad it is doing well, although I do have a question.... slippery elm bark can have an effect on how the body absorbes medication, could this be a problem when I give her the prednisolone?

Also, I have arranged to have a cat sitter come and check up on Kitty 1x a day for 2 days while I am away with family for Christmas. She could not come twice a day as is what I wanted because I am out of the way for her. I was all concerned because Kitty eats RAW and frozen raw at that. I had to come up with an alternative for her while I am away so Kitty still can have something to nibble on in the evening. Anyways, I had to special order through my pet store some freeze died raw, I figured that had to be the next best thing since feeding her kibble or any other food at this point is out of the question! :nod: Now I have a few questions about freeze dried raw.

1. Do I need to have water added to this? And if so, is this food safe to leave out if it is moistened?
2. Is it okay to feed freeze dried raw as a meal replacement for a few days?
3. How long can freeze dried raw be left out in a bowl?
4. What are the chances of the cat getting constipated if eating a dry freeze dried meal for a few days? (hope she will drink water)
5. Do most cats like this kind of raw?

Okay, so the sitter has been told to feed 1 NV frozen raw puck in the morning mixed with her probiotic, and I am hoping to have her leave out the freeze dried raw for the cat as an alternative meal in the evenings. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I have know idea what else to do in this case as I usually feed her 2x a day and all frozen raw, so the freeze dried will be a new thing. :lol3:

 

[angels mommy]

Hi Oakshimmer,  I know Laurie & Carolina will be along soon to answer most of those questions for you. I am curious as to how long you can leave out freeze dried if you re-hydrate it as well.

I give Angel freeze dried beef, or beef hearts as a treat, or a few pieces cut up into bite sizes for something for him to snack on at night, or after he has had breakfast, before I leave for work. This way he can nibble if he gets hungry during the day. (sense he doesn't get ANY dry anymore).  I know if it's not re-hydrated it is fine to leave out, as that's how it's packaged & is dry, & doesn't need refrigeration.

 

[oakshimmer]

What to do now???

Okay, since my last post I managed to get all the supplements that were suggested and so far so good for Kitty.

Thank-you very much for the help with all that, I really appreciate it because I only really have all of you to turn to with all this! Now I must trouble you all with another yet seemingly redundant cat issue...

Kitty has been eating the Raw diet now for about 2 months, I have to say that I feel that she is at least 80% better than she was before this diet. We do have some bad days but at least they seem to resolve much faster now than they did before this diet.

As you all know, she usually eats primarily NV raw in Chicken, Lamb, Duck and Beef. She also gets a little Carnivora brand as well in the Chicken and Beef Offal. I thought she was getting a pretty good variety and things were going well until she lost all interest in the Carnivora chicken. I figured that maybe if I gave that to her once a week that it might help that issue but NOPE!

So it seems that that flavor from Carnivora is now out of the question. 

She would eat the NV chicken though at least until she decided she didn't like it anymore as well.

She usually loves the NV lamb, but this last week she decided that it was no longer good enough. This morning she was served lamb and at first she sniffed it and walked away. I was like "eat it or go hungry"!

She had little choice in the matter since she was hungry and did end up eating some of it, then waited to see if I would dust the rest with a temptation to finish her meal with. I did end up doing that and she did eat her meal.

So I seem to be running into an issue where my once garborator of a cat is now becoming fussy over what is on the dinner plate.

I am just glad that she started to hate the Lamb once I began to run out of that bag. As you all know, raw feeding can be at times pricey and having a fussy cat at times does not really fit into the plan. I decided to add another brand of raw food, I ended up buying her raw food from Pets4Life. It seems pretty similar to NV but it carries some fish as well as chicken, duck, and turkey. I took the plunge and did get their chicken brand and the fish. I know that fish in high amounts is not advised, but I figure that if she won't eat anything else the fish is the next best thing!

I am now just waiting for the day when she won't eat some other flavor from NV. She seems to still really like the NV duck and beef also she loves the carnivora beef offal, but I really don't want to push my luck feeding those flavors all the time and have her loose interest in them too.

So I guess what I really want to know is what to do about a fussy cat! What do you guys do when your cat snubs its meal? Do you just do the eat it or starve method? I am at a loss! I need her to eat what is served because I can't afford to go out an buy more foods that she might not eat! Any ideas?

 

[ldg]

Here's how I handle it. I feed 3 meals a day. If Spooky doesn't finish a meal, I let her not finish. If I didn't have the ferals, I'd probably refreeze it. :anon: If she doesn't finish the next meal, I let her not finish it. By the 3rd meal (now 24 hours), if she only takes a couple of bites, I use toppers, offer her other food, etc. whatever it takes to get her to eat a full meal. I'll also try altering the texture by adding water or something to it (Spooky is my cat that eats mostly ground raw. I do keep offering her the same meal the others are eating, only I mince hers - but she'll only eat this like... one out of every 5 or 6 meals or so).

BUT... the stuff she didn't like at this meal that she ate just three days ago.... if I've offered it to her twice inside of a few days and she doesn't want it, I don't offer the same thing again for at least a week.

Cats are funny. Sometimes something they didn't like yesterday, they'll like today. And sometimes they need a week or two between being offered it, and they love it again.

And yes, raw fish is fine to feed occasionally.

 

[mschauer]

I've been exactly where you are several times. I feed mostly my homemade chicken, turkey, beef and pork and most of the time they all eat whatever I put down. But there have been times when one of more of them would turn up their noses at something they happily ate before. I think pork is the only thing none of them has ever balked at eating. 

When they are fussy I just ignore it. I feed them 3 times a day and the food stays down until either they eat it or until the next meal time. It's very rare that there is food left until the next meal. When one of them is being fussy I don't know if they finally give in and eat or if one of the others finishes it. I monitor their weights pretty closely and none of them has ever had an extended "fussy phase" that caused a significant weight loss and none of them has ever permanently refused to eat something that they previously did eat. Well, with one exception. Rabbit. They all will sometimes eat it and sometimes not. That's why I don't feed it anymore.

 

[hersheys mom]

Hi everyone!

So this is the part where I have to ask some questions to all you raw feeders.

1. Is it okay or safe to thaw out my medallions in a zip lock sandwich bag in the fridge or does it have to be a container. I have been thawing in a sandwich bag as it thaws faster.

2. If any of you have had a cat with IBD, how long did it take after eating only raw to see any results in the litter box?

3. Did the the results last?

Thank you guys for helping and I will keep you updated on her progress.

Welcome to the group! I am new at raw feeding also. However, my cat's story is very similar. Adopted my Burmese feral Sept 15th, and she had diarrhea. 12 weeks, several vet visits, many tests later, she showed no improvement. Then she started passing blood. Since she is feral, my vet thought it was stress or IBD of the large colon since nothing they gave me helped. Then I found this site. Most everyone suggested I start raw feeding her, some thought breaking her in slowly was the way, others said just go for it. Someone even looked up a "health food" store for me in my area. So I went to the Healthy Pet Pantry, told the owner my cat's history, and she started to give me cans of food and frozen raw, with tons of information on the benefits of raw feeding. I went home full of hope. I gave her a can of the healthy food, and she gulped it down. Then later I defrosted some raw samples. I did not know if she would eat them or not. The minute I walked into her room with her bowl of raw food, she got on her hind legs and started to meow. She wanted that dish, like NOW. I have never seen a cat get so excited about food before. She ate it without hesitation. The next morning I gave her more food, half good canned food, half raw. Two hours later I was gifted with a normal poop. The first time in 3 months. Her diarrhea has NOT returned. If not for the folk on this list, she would still be going to the vet and still have blood in her stool or maybe worse. I thank them with all my heart.

Good luck with your new kitty. By the way, I defrost my raw sheets just until they can be broken and then store them in small plasitc cups with lids. Many of the ladies store in plastic bags, individual servings, which is what I will be doing once I get the raw "formula" down. One more thing - before raw feeding she had very bad dandruff. In two weeks you can hardly see any flakes. I am sure, with time, her dander will be under control. So there really is something to this raw feeding thing, even though vets don't advise it, because I see nothing but improvements in my kitty. Now, if only my Tortie will convert, I will be one happy mommy!

 

[oakshimmer]

Here's how I handle it. I feed 3 meals a day. If Spooky doesn't finish a meal, I let her not finish. If I didn't have the ferals, I'd probably refreeze it.

If she doesn't finish the next meal, I let her not finish it. By the 3rd meal (now 24 hours), if she only takes a couple of bites, I use toppers, offer her other food, etc. whatever it takes to get her to eat a full meal. I'll also try altering the texture by adding water or something to it (Spooky is my cat that eats mostly ground raw. I do keep offering her the same meal the others are eating, only I mince hers - but she'll only eat this like... one out of every 5 or 6 meals or so).
BUT... the stuff she didn't like at this meal that she ate just three days ago.... if I've offered it to her twice inside of a few days and she doesn't want it, I don't offer the same thing again for at least a week.
Cats are funny. Sometimes something they didn't like yesterday, they'll like today. And sometimes they need a week or two between being offered it, and they love it again.

And yes, raw fish is fine to feed occasionally.

I've been exactly where you are several times. I feed mostly my homemade chicken, turkey, beef and pork and most of the time they all eat whatever I put down. But there have been times when one of more of them would turn up their noses at something they happily ate before. I think pork is the only thing none of them has ever balked at eating.

Hmmmm maybe I should see if I can get my hands on some pork.

When they are fussy I just ignore it. I feed them 3 times a day and the food stays down until either they eat it or until the next meal time.

Do you mean you leave the raw meal out for a while or till the next meal? I always thought 30 mins was the max I could leave out the raw foods before I had to bag it back up and place it in the fridge till next meal time. If I can leave it out longer that would be good but I want to keep risks down for bacterial growth of course.

It's very rare that there is food left until the next meal. When one of them is being fussy I don't know if they finally give in and eat or if one of the others finishes it. I monitor their weights pretty closely and none of them has ever had an extended "fussy phase" that caused a significant weight loss and none of them has ever permanently refused to eat something that they previously did eat. Well, with one exception. Rabbit. They all will sometimes eat it and sometimes not. That's why I don't feed it anymore.

Welcome to the group!

Thank-you very much!

I am new at raw feeding also. However, my cat's story is very similar. Adopted my Burmese feral Sept 15th, and she had diarrhea. 12 weeks, several vet visits, many tests later, she showed no improvement. Then she started passing blood. Since she is feral, my vet thought it was stress or IBD of the large colon since nothing they gave me helped.

This is the story of my poor Kitty's life, although the vet has put her on prednisolone which I would love to get her off of, but she continues to relapse when I ween her off of it.

Then I found this site. Most everyone suggested I start raw feeding her, some thought breaking her in slowly was the way, others said just go for it.

I was told the same things, I was a little concerned about going "cold turkey" so I did do the switch gradually. I do think she would have took to it just fine "cold turkey" though.

Someone even looked up a "health food" store for me in my area. So I went to the Healthy Pet Pantry, told the owner my cat's history, and she started to give me cans of food and frozen raw, with tons of information on the benefits of raw feeding. I went home full of hope. I gave her a can of the healthy food, and she gulped it down. Then later I defrosted some raw samples. I did not know if she would eat them or not. The minute I walked into her room with her bowl of raw food, she got on her hind legs and started to meow. She wanted that dish, like NOW. I have never seen a cat get so excited about food before. She ate it without hesitation.

It sure is a beautiful thing watching a cat eat what nature intended!

The next morning I gave her more food, half good canned food, half raw. Two hours later I was gifted with a normal poop. The first time in 3 months. Her diarrhea has NOT returned. If not for the folk on this list, she would still be going to the vet and still have blood in her stool or maybe worse. I thank them with all my heart.

That is wonderful news! I remember doing the poo poo dance when I saw a nice normal poop in the box. As a matter of fact I still do the dance when I see a normal poop.

We do have times when we get soft stool or mild diarrhea but for the most part my cat is 80% better and looks great too!

Good luck with your new kitty. By the way, I defrost my raw sheets just until they can be broken and then store them in small plasitc cups with lids. Many of the ladies store in plastic bags, individual servings, which is what I will be doing once I get the raw "formula" down.

I have been sticking with the ziplock baggies for now, it seems to be doing the trick. Sometimes I do use the plastic cups too with the lids but mostly just the baggies. Whatever works is fine by me!

One more thing - before raw feeding she had very bad dandruff. In two weeks you can hardly see any flakes. I am sure, with time, her dander will be under control. So there really is something to this raw feeding thing, even though vets don't advise it, because I see nothing but improvements in my kitty. Now, if only my Tortie will convert, I will be one happy mommy!

I know right! The raw feeding does seem to have wonderful benifets indeed! I will never again feed my cat or any other cat that I come across any other kind of diet. My vet, even though she does not advocate raw feeding, seems very pleased that my cat is doing much better on raw than she was on their prescription diets (a joke really IMO) or any commercial canned or kibble! I am all for RAW Foods!!!!

 

[mschauer]

When they are fussy I just ignore it. I feed them 3 times a day and the food stays down until either they eat it or until the next meal time.

Do you mean you leave the raw meal out for a while or till the next meal? I always thought 30 mins was the max I could leave out the raw foods before I had to bag it back up and place it in the fridge till next meal time. If I can leave it out longer that would be good but I want to keep risks down for bacterial growth of course.

You'll find differing opinions on how long raw can "safely" be left out. Mine normally finish their food pretty quickly, usually within 30 mins. But there have been times when there will still be some left after a couple of hours but will be gone later. Usually if it stays down more than a couple of hours it never gets eaten. At what point food is inedible really is species dependent and what is inedible for a human isn't necessarily inedible for a cat.

 

[ldg]

I know a number of people have the "30 minute" rule. I don't follow it. When I was first feeding raw, I probably wouldn't have left it out that long. :lol3:

But now that they've been on raw for a while... honestly, I don't really worry about it. I know that cats in the wild forage, and they'll eat a dead something that's been sitting there for a couple of days. Or they go dumpster diving and eat trash that's been there for a week.

Now - your kitty has a compromised immune system, and I'm not sure she's been on raw long enough to really completely heal up. :dk:

But Lazlo and Spooky are my finicky kitties. The others always (knock wood) eat their meals, and if they don't, I know it's because they don't feel well.

Lazlo completed his chemo in January - he had a tumor in his tummy, and he had bleeding ulcers. He's a healthy weight, but obviously I worry about every little thing that may (or may not LOL) be going on with him.

He went through a period in late August, early September where he wasn't eating right. He finally threw up a pile of hairballs. After that, when he wouldn't finish a meal, I'd stick it in a cabinet and offer it to him after half an hour or so. He would usually finish it. But if he didn't, I just put it back in the cabinet. And I'd try again in half an hour. I've given him food that was out for two hours - and he was fine. Now - that was 8 months of being on raw and after completing chemo.

With one kitty, I would have just left the food out.

 

[oakshimmer]

Good to know, I guess I don't have to be overly paranoid then!

Okay now onto the latest question for all you Freeze dried feeders. I found a website that will ship dehydrated foods and Freeze dried foods to canada. Now the big question is what to buy. I have read a lot of posts on this forum about Stella and chewy's and Primal. I can get some S&C in FD Salmon & Chicken or the plain Chicken, or the Primal FD in Chicken and Salmon or Beef and Salmon. What flavors are the better choice? Does anyone feed any of these flavors?