New to raw feeding and have questions!

[oakshimmer]

Hi everyone! I am here because I need all your raw feeding tips, and I have a few questions about raw feeding and storage.

First, let me give you a bit of the history on my lovely little kitty. My kitty and I first met a little over a year ago. She was a stray cat who would always hang out in the neighborhood eating the trash, and on garbage day she would look for empty cans of cat food to lick out of my recycling box.

She was (and still is) a beautiful domestic long hair cat, mostly white with black patches. I was in love with this cat, she was so friendly and loving, but I was not sure if I would be able to take her in at the time, I have a pretty full house of pets.

I began to leave food out for her though, and placed a small cardboard box on the porch with a nice wool sweater in it for her to sleep in if she needed a place to stay. The winter months started to approach and quite quickly I might add. And the box on the porch was starting to become a regular hang out. I would come out and visit her often, and upon looking at her condition I could see she was in need of a home badly. Her ear was badly frost bitten, as well as her nose and feet. Poor girl was in rough shape.

I decided that she had had enough of the outdoor life and decided to bring her in.

  She took a few days to adjust to her new home, but came around quickly. For the longest time just hanging out in the one bedroom we made as her home. I hoped she would roam the house, but she did not for a while. Eventually one morning my husband woke me up to tell me that this beautiful kitty was sleeping next to me.

She has been sleeping with me most nights ever since.

As she became comfortable I noticed her ear was not getting better, it was actually getting to a point where the tissue was deteriorating and dying. I tried everything to save her ear, but it was time to take drastic measures. I booked the appointment to have the surgery done.

About one month before her surgery was going to take place, I saw a circular patch of fur missing on her face, scared about ringworm I thought it be best to have it tested. Before I received the results on that, I did some on line research on the subject and read that bleach was a good remedy to clean with in cases of ringworm. I went crazy on the bleach. I don't ever use bleach but this time I though it might be a good idea. I was happy I did the job and had some peace of mind. 24 hours later my cat was vomiting and having explosive diarrhea. I was not sure what the issue was, but it seemed strange that she was sick after I did all that cleaning. I rushed to the vet to find out that my girl was bleach poisoned!

It was bad news and on such a scale that the vet gave her a 50/50 prognosis as the bleach really did some damage. I was horrified that there was a possibility that I was going to loose her. Thinking that I had probably caused her more harm bringing her into my home than good. All I could do was pray and wait.

Sure enough if by miracle, on my birthday she finally ate a full meal! It was weeks before she really had anything to eat, prior to that she was only eating small amounts of canned an treats. It was the best birthday gift ever, the gift of my cats life!

This is where I get to the point in where we are at today. She was fine after a full month of recovery from the bleach poisoning. Had her ear amputated, and since healed beautifully. 3 months had passed after those events with no issues, till one day that all changed. The diarrhea started. I did what every good cat momma does and I pulled out the cooked chicken breast and pumpkin. Fed that for a few days and all went back to normal. That didn't last long though. The diarrhea returned, returned again and again. I finally after a few days I took her to see the vet. Of course they prescribed their cat food, and some anti diarrhea medication. Over a few days, that seemed to help but again the diarrhea returned.

This became the new life of my cat for about 4 weeks, on and off diarrhea, I took her back to the vet, and after all the blood work and fecal exams the whole nine yards, my vets diagnosis was.... IBD or Cancer!

Since prior to this diagnosis kitty was getting worse, not eating much and having diarrhea all the time, the vet pulled out the big guns... Prednisolone. To make a long story short, kitty has been on this drug for at least 7 months, as much as it helps a little, she still has relapses of diarrhea. I am pretty much at the end of my rope as to what to do to help, as nothing seems to.

I did a ton of research as a means to get a possible solution to all this, when I came upon the raw diet. I hesitated with the idea for months, especially after being frightened off of the idea from my vet. So we just continued on with this problem. Last month was a new experience for kitty and I. She had to go in to have her anal glands expressed. I was thinking to myself "just try the raw diet". All this diarrhea is now causing more issues. Poor cat is at the vet every month sometimes 2x a month. It was then that I decided to go for it. Really what do I got to loose? I did not mention my intentions to the vet and went ahead and bought her a commercial raw diet to start.

I bought her Nature's Variety Raw Chicken Medallions. Thawed one up and popped a bit down, and to my surprise she gulped it right down, looked up at me and wanted more! I was shocked!!! It was as if it was fate, Kitty knew what she needed and I had just needed to try it. So over the last 7 days we started the transition. I didn't want to cause any more GI upset so I just added some raw with her regular diet, decreasing the old diet till on Monday we were finally on all raw. Now over the last week she has been still having diarrhea, which is to be expected considering she was still eating her old diet. On Monday she ate all raw all day, and had not pooped at all in those 24hrs. Today, again all on raw, she pooped and to my surprise it was a nice shaped 3 out of 5 poop. Then after eating her breakfast she went to the box again only to have diarrhea, I was kinda disappointed but I am still hopeful that the new diet will help out.

So this is the part where I have to ask some questions to all you raw feeders.

1. Is it okay or safe to thaw out my medallions in a zip lock sandwich bag in the fridge or does it have to be a container. I have been thawing in a sandwich bag as it thaws faster.

2. If any of you have had a cat with IBD, how long did it take after eating only raw to see any results in the litter box?

3. Did the the results last?

Thank you guys for helping and I will keep you updated on her progress.

 

[angels mommy]

Welcome to TCS!  Bless you for taking in that kitty. Sounds like your a good momma, on the right track. I don't have a lot of experience w/ this, but there are others here who have & can help.

Hopefully they will be along soon!

  Maybe her delicate system just needs a little longer to adjust to the change. It sounds like you are doing the right things.

 

I just switched my baby to raw a few months ago (Bravo Complete Burgers) & he loves it, and I still rotate in some canned by nature about once a week.

 

[ldg]

Hi, and add my welcome and thanks.

1) Yes. Many of us use baggies. I dethaw in either the fridge or in a bowl of cold water.

2) I don't have a kitty with IBD, others do, and I'm sure they'll be along to share their experiences. That said, I do know raw is the best diet for her, but IBD kitties have unique problems. A site you may find helpful: http://www.ibdkitties.net/LivingwithIBD.html Carolina's Bugsy had IBD. After trying a zillion things, after 18 months of diarrhea, they were facing exploratory surgery. She opted to try a raw diet. She also used NV at first, though she used rabbit, as chicken (in canned form) was a problem for him. After his first full day on raw, he had a solid poop. Any time she introduced something new too rapidly, he would have soft poop or diarrhea. Introducing new proteins or other commercial foods is best done slowly, just as you introduced the raw food slowly.

She continued researching, and found case studies on IBDkitties.net that indicated that ground bone can be a problem for some kitties. So she switched to a commercial raw foods that did not use ground bone: there are two of them. The more expensive (higher quality) food is Rad Cat. The other food is Nature's Menu, though kitties (in general) seem to be a bit pickier about eating it. The only option for many people for either food is ordering it online and paying shipping charges. But you can google "natural" or "holistic" pet food stores in your area, and call around.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Nature's Variety, though 95% raw meat/bones/organs, has that other 5% that is a LONG list of things that may be a trigger for kitties with IBD. Simple ingredient lists are best for kitties with IBD. Also, NV targets 15% bone, and the guidelines when feeding whole prey model raw are 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ. That 15% bone content is too much for some kitties - and with a kitty with IBD, if there is a bone sensitivity of some kind, may be a problem.

The good news is that you now know raw is going to help, and what she needs!

3) For many kitties with IBD, raw worked and the results lasted. But as pointed out in answer #2, the issue may be what the recipe of the raw food used is.


I have other questions for you:

1) Are you using a (quality) probiotic to help restore her good gut flora? This is important for her. :nod:
2) What medications is she currently on? Is she still on pred, or did you take her off it?
3) Was she tested for FIV (and FeLV)?
4) Has she been receiving B12 shots?

If she's not on a probiotic, I'd head out to the health food store and ask for their best human acidophilus supplement, you're looking for 10 billion CFU. Many of us use Natural Factors double-strength acidophilus+bifidus. I either get mine from the health food store or I order it from amazon:
I sprinkle one capsule on their food once daily.

Hope this helps! And yes, please do keep us updated on her progress!

 

[angels mommy]

  Yeeey Laurie, I knew you or Carolina would come along w/ great advice!  ....Yes, defiantly a probiotic asap!

 I should have remembered that!!

 

[oakshimmer]

I have been giving her a pro-biotic once a day.

It is a human grade but only 2 billion cfu. I was told by a vet to only give her half of that.

So that is what I have been doing. I have not been getting her any B12 shots, vet never even suggested that. 

But I have heard about it. Can I get some in a capsule form to add to her food too? She is still on the Prednisolone 5mg once every other day. She is also on Tylosin for her diarrhea, but it does not seem to be that effective so far this week.

She was tested for FIV and FeLV and was negative. I did all the blood work, the full panel to check everything. And did multiple stool tests. Everything was fine as it regarded function and parasites/pathogens or the like.

Her blood work indicated 2x higher than normal lymphocytes which later went down after starting the medication. That is why I was given the possible Cancer diagnosis. They offered the biopsy scope thing but I can not afford that, and it is pretty invasive. So I thought raw might be a good start to see how that goes before going crazy on surgery.

She seems to have taken quite well to the raw,

and I am happy she likes it. I was actually pretty surprised how well she converted to it. I am taking things as slowly as possible to avoid any massive upset,

but it is kind of trial and error right now. I have heard that the Nature's Variety has too much bone in it for cats, and I am finding it very hard to find another good brand.

I live in Ontario Canada and there isn't much to choose from. I can't get Radcat, Primal, or S&C and I wish I could. But there is a another brand I am looking at through Tolldan Farms. I am a little nervous about these foods because I feel safe with NV because of the HPP they do in order to kill of any bad bacteria/parasites. I want to stay on the safety side because she is already sick and on that horrid steroid.

I can't seem to order the other brands online as they won't ship to Canada. A pet store I called said that the Primal brand may come out in a year or 2, but that is a long wait. I am hoping that for now we can stick with the NV and maybe add some pumpkin or something better for any stool issue as it regards constipation. I don't need a new problem that's for sure!

So far so good though, and I have been getting a lot of great advice from cat forums such as yours. I am trying to get very educated on this diet, as I want to be safe and do the best I can. I figure coming to this site might be a good idea considering a lot of you have tried this diet, and likely know a thing or 2.

I will tell you this, I am a bit afraid to feed my cat grocery store meat.

I am concerned that it might make her sick, and I can't afford that. I really want to just be safe and do it right. I know that it would be ideal to feed her chunks of meat, but I am scared. I am more afraid because she is on that medication. But maybe in the future if she can ever be taken off that drug, I would love to dive in and try the real stuff. For now I am just erring on the side of caution.

Wait till my vet finds out! She is going to freak!!

 

 

[angels mommy]

Sounds like you will be "teaching" your vet something she should already know.

 I think any vets that are warning against raw, just don't have the right info. (which they should), or are

afraid that people won't educate themselves on doing it right w/ supplements etc..    That's why I like the Bravo Complete Burgers, the complete means it already has the supplements in it!

I was very lucky to have found a natural pet food shop in my town. It had been there for 6 years, & I never knew about it!!  (They are small, so can't afford to do much advertising, but should).

I was ecstatic to find them!!!!

I was fortunate that Angel took to the raw right away too!

Good luck with your baby, I will be checking in on this thread, to see how she is doing.

 

[ldg]

A TCS member very kindly put together a list of Canadian raw food suppliers. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248687/canadian-raw-food-suppliers

And we were discussing the issue of the pathogen-free guaranteed foods in another thread of someone new to raw: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249835/beginner-to-raw-feeding-after-months-of-illness#post_3261285

The dose of pred you're giving your kitty is not immuno-suppressive, it is anti-inflammatory. So while I would recommend bumping up the probiotic to 10 billion CFU,not 2 ( :slant: ), or at least to the recommended dosage of 4 billion CFU (just check the ingredients - are they active cultures or fermentation products?), based on my experience, I think your kitty will be fine with non-high-pressure-processing meat. My Lazlo was finishing chemotherapy when I started my cats on raw. I started with NV too, but started "thinning" it out with supermarket meat. I was very nervous about that too! But they were fine, I was fine, and that's what I feed my cats now.

I don't discount the role of pathogen-free guaranteed meats at all. But IMO their function is to make us comfortable with feeding raw. The cats do fine without the HPP.

But with the list of Canadian raw foods, I'd look for simple ingredient lists and see if any of those are available to you. :nod:

 

[oakshimmer]

Thank-you so much!

Those links were just what I needed! I did find a store that sells Canivora and I even called them up to ask some questions about their raw food. Found out that their bone content was only at 5-7% which is ideal! I am planning a trip there soon! Can't wait to get my hands on the Rabbit and Duck.

I read through the other post similar to this one and it was very informative. I guess I am being scared for nothing. Even my mother thinks I should just try it. She eats raw foods herself even some meats. And she has never been sick from it.

So for now I think I will try out carnivora's brand and see how that goes. The gentlemen that I spoke to at this company told me to just feed her some chicken wings once in a while, and even offer her some canned sardines in spring water once in a while as a snack. I thought that was a great idea since she is a fish lover!

The only problem I might have with her is she is missing a few back teeth, so I wonder how that may effect eating bone.  Raw ground seems easy enough for her but I can always just give her some chunks of raw meat without bone to start.

What kind of liver do you all feed that cats generally like? 

Should I freeze the meat first or should I serve it up fresh from the store? Or should I do both? Realistically. do pets really get sick from eating raw, or is it because of unsafe handling/cleanliness or type of meats?

I have read somewhere to never feed ground beef, chicken or pork or anything ground from the super market. Someone even stated they made their cat sick feeding that to them and had a cat on deaths door because of it. The only ground I will give my cat is a commercial raw cat food or homemade ground (which I am unable to do at the moment).

When you feed a homemade diet, what does a meal plan consist of? Do you prefer commercial prepared raw or homemade meals? How do you make sure your cat is getting a balanced meal?

Looks like this is going to be one interesting journey to better health for my little fur baby. Even with the worse of illnesses I still think feeding raw will have it's overall benefits. Only time will tell I suppose, but that is something I have plenty of!
 

 

[ldg]

There were several other people transitioning to raw at the same time I was, and we were all on the hunt for commercial foods to try. Carolina found Carnivora - I LOVE that company! I was so disappointed when it turned out they were in Canada. :lol3: We have an equivalent here though, it turns out (Hare Today). Hare today is sold in one and two pounds - we have to portion it up ourselves, and I think Carnivora is already portioned up, but.... another Canadian member is using it, and his kitty is doing really well on it.

If someone's kitty got really sick on supermarket meat, three things could have happened.

1) The meat could have not been handled properly by the person that bought it (meaning it was left out too long, left in the fridge too long, etc.).

2) It wasn't actually the supermarket meat that was the problem, but an improperly balanced diet. Too many people think "Oh, raw meat!" and feed only that. But feeding raw involves a lot more than feeding raw meat. It's not rocket science. But a mouse is not only muscle!

3) There can be bacteria on ANY meat. There is bacteria in most kibble. Based on recalls, I'd say feeding kibble is more dangerous. :dk: Our cats, unless they are already immune-compromised, or kittens (whose immune systems are not fully developed), can handle it. And if they get sick, with proper treatment, they recover just FINE (though most cases of food poisoning in people are self-limiting, and last just a few days - same thing with cats. The caveat to that is that you cannot let your cat become dehydrated, and for young kittens, THAT can be very serious). So starting a transition with a sick kitten might not be the smartest move ever, and not going to a vet quickly if a young kitten has diarrhea for a day or can't keep food down for a day could be a real problem. Adult cats are not nearly as at risk if they do get sick from something like salmonella. But it is typically self-limiting. It's just that the undeveloped immune systems of kittens put them at greater risk - and they need faster treatment.

Now - in my transition there were bouts of vomiting or diarrhea along the way. But each was a one-time event. The cats weren't sick - they were reacting to the new food - a new protein - when I introduced something too quickly. But I learned quickly that was the issue. It was always a one-time event, and that was it.

As to the freezing, yes, it is best to freeze the meat for three days at 0F (-18C). Here's a thread where we discussed it: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248317/raw-feeding-and-parasites-questions

What most of us do is shop, toss the meat in the fridge. When we have time that day or the next, portion the meat into meal-size portions, label and date it (actually, it's easiest to figure out how many meals it is, and label, date, and open the baggies first, then fill them), and freeze them.

I do feed meat from the supermarket without freezing - but I don't do it all the time. (Usually when I've forgotten to take their stuff out to dethaw. Like tonight. :lol3: )

The meat itself is usually safe. You'll see in the video on the thread linked. The issue with bacteria is almost always in the way the meat was handled in processing or transport. And for the most part, you don't get concentrations of the stuff that are going to actually be a problem, and it's on the outside of the meat (though this is one of the reasons why it is not recommended to buy meat already ground. Much safer to do it at home, or to buy ground food INTENDED to be fed raw, e.g. from commercial raw food manufacturers. They take different precautions than the supermarket). :nod: ). Some people rinse meat and pat it down dry before portioning, others don't, thinking that just increases the risk of spreading it around the kitchen. :dk: I used to rinse the meat, just because that's how my family handles raw meat. But my mom grew up on a farm, they produced and butchered their own meat (as a kid visiting, I remember plucking chickens... and, well, it needed to be rinsed off before they used it. Now, I don't.

As to how to feed homemade... that really depends upon whether you want to use prey model raw, or make ground.

Here's a thread to someone planning to feed raw to their kitten and asking lots of questions : http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249593/raw-feeding-costly The thread addresses a lot of questions about shopping and meal plans, etc.

And here's a thread to someone who just started making their own homemade ground food: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249264/launching-into-homemade-raw


There are advantages and disadvantages to both styles. Ground means more up front cost and more up front work, but it's quick and easy to feed at meal time. You also don't have the issue of "does my cat like organs," that some of us feeding prey model raw ("PMR" or "frankenprey") face. But with frankenprey... you get the benefit of chewing, both on dental health, and as many report, mental health. For most, it's just a choice of what's comfortable - or what their cats prefer.

 

[carolina]

Hi and welcome to TCS!
I am here literally at a loss of words :lol3: I looked at this thread a few hours ago, watched the debate, and now I can't think of one thing to add
Laurie is just amazing - she covered everything
The only thing I can say do, I guess, is reassure you that it is going to be alright.... Bugsy, my IBD boy was in a very bad shape for a long while before raw. I was in fear of him reacting badly to the diet and bacterial load, as he was the type of cat who would react badly to anything and everything.
He had been on strong antibiotics (including Tylan) for a long time, pred, and his immune-system was not good at all.
As I quickly noticed though, raw was all he needed. I took 8 days to transition him to raw - on the 1st day he ate 100% raw, he had his first solid poop.
And he has been diarrhea-free ever since.
Does he still have diarrhea from time to time? Sure - like Laurie said, if I introduce meats, or even holistic supplements too fast, he will react with diarrhea. But it won't last - all I have to do is take a step back and start a slow intro and he will be fine.
One thing to keep in mind, is that Tylan (Tylosin) is an antibiotic - it kills the intestinal gut flora. It is given to them much like metronidazole, as it has some anti-inflammatory properties. If it is not working, I would talk to the vet about stopping it. You want to have a healthy gut flora while feeding raw.... Besides, there is not need IMHO to give a drug that doesn't work - my opinion.
One thing that you can give him to jump start his gut flora, stop the inflammation at once and give him a good start on the diet, is Diagel - It won't cure the diarrhea; but it will stop it immediately and it will reduce the inflammation helping him to regain a healthy gut flora with the aid of the probiotics. I am not sure where you can get it in Canada - Here is the link for it - it is amazing stuff: http://www.vanbeeknaturalscience.com/comp_diagel.php
You might be able to get it here: http://www.revivalanimal.com/DiaGel.html
All my cats take 10 Billion CFU of probiotics, including Bugsy and do just fine.
I always preferred foods without veggies, and with single proteins.... I was very impressed with Carnivora, particularly with the whole carcasse formulas - I think they are far superior than NV and a great choice for you! All my cats did great with rabbit, and it was always a very easily digestible meat to feed :nod:
Bugsy has been 100% drug free and doing beautifully. He does take holistic drops for stomatitis and allergies, but aside from that, nothing really. He is as healthy as he will ever be. His vet just can't believe his eyes..... From hopeless he is thriving - he is healthy, happy, has bright eyes, is free of pain, and I am certain he has a long and bright future ahead of him.
Just keep going slowly.... one day at a time...... We will be here along the way

 

[oakshimmer]

You guys are awesome!

Thank-you for the links on the Diagel, I have heard of it but never seen it anywhere, did find a place that ships it to Canada. http://www.tscpets.com/md-16900.html I am moving in a few weeks so I might wait to order all this stuff when I get to the new place. It seems that if it is coming from the States it can take a while, I wouldn't want to miss the delivery.

You all have great information about this diet, and for me, the more the better because it helps me to gain some confidence going forward. Kitty has been on all raw now for 2 days. Today being her 3rd. It seems like her litter box schedule has changed a little. She used to pee a lot on her canned diet, and now she pees around 2x a day. To my surprise it even smells less. The poop thing seems to be going every 2nd day from what I have noticed, Her last poop was yesterday morning with a little diarrhea, but for the most part a big difference. Nothing today so far, but it is still early. I am practically obsessed with checking the litter box. It is kinda scary!

I was looking over Carnivora'a site a little more and saw they had all kinds of other stuff too. Supplements and vitamins etc. I have read that a lot of people use slippery elm bark powder for their cats, does that only help with constipated kitties? Also, they have Offal, to be honest I never even knew what that was till I read into the contents. Doesn't sound like something I would eat, but definitely something my cat might! Do any of you feed Offal? Do your cats like it? Looks like it has a lot of organs in it.

Oh just another quick question, the guy at Carnivora said he sometimes gives his cat a sardine in spring water as a snack, is this okay? I know my girl loves fish. I wouldn't be feeding this as a meal but maybe a once in a while treat. What do you all think?

 

[ldg]

On the poop front.... Carolina, during her transition, kept a "Poop-O-Meter." And that's how we kept track of Bugsy's progress! But if poop is every 2 or so days now - then the diarrhea is NOT because she's sick, it's just from adjusting. And that 2-3 days pooping on raw is completely normal. The volume is smaller, right? Well - once it's formed, you'll see it is. :nod: The food is so much more bioavailable to them, there is very little waste. Very little. So because the volume is lower, it doesn't come out as frequently! And for an IBD kitties, this is GOOD. Because if something's wrong, it'll rush right through them, and you'll see that diarrhea quickly. :nod:

As to the peeing, my kitties were eating canned food only for more than a year before we made the switch. Now - I have 8 cats, so I have no idea how frequently they pee. BUT on raw, in our case, the amount of pee went UP, even from canned food! So if you're seeing lower volume, it just means you were using foods with higher moisture content, or she drank more (maybe because of the salt added to the food - a lot of food has a fair amount of sodium in it). Either way, raw has plenty of moisture in it, so I'm pretty sure a lower volume of pee isn't a problem. (And yeah, everything smells less on raw! Poop has no smell once their gut flora gets sorted!).

That is to say, especially those of us that have kitties that had poop issues, litter box obsession (and celebrations!) are normal. We'll be doing that poop dance with you when you're celebrating normal poop!

On the offal... I've never looked into it. But I know kitties love things like tripe, which apparently can have the spleen in it. So I'd consider it at some point! For right now.... keep it simple. :nod: Let your baby's body adjust. Their bodies go through an entire transition on raw, and it can take a few months for everything to adjust to the new diet, the more acidic environment, and for IBD kitties, they need that time to heal and for the inflammation to calm down. :nod:

Using Rad Cat, you don't need any supplements. Right now, the probiotic should be enough. You can work on developing a home made approach when she's settled in to being HEALTHY.

As to the sardines.... again, I'd hold off for now. One thing at a time. :nod: A lot of kitties love them, and most raw feeders use them as a snack once a week. They are a great source of omega 3s.

 

[oakshimmer]

Poop o meter!

Too funny!!!

Well if a poop o meter is a good way to track things, I suppose I will use that! On today's meter, things have been well, non existent! She has not gone at all. She went yesterday, and seems to be going from every day to every other day so far. But we will see.... quite literally I am sure.

I hope that the next poop will be a good one!

I made it out to the new pet store today and picked up the carnivora raw chicken without vegetables!

I was going to get another kind of protein like rabbit, but I thought that at $33.00 a bag it was a bit pricey, and I already have a months worth of chicken and lamb NV. I also figured it might just be a good idea to stick with chicken as it doesn't seem to be causing any upset and I am trying to take things slow. So I hope that the Lamb and Chicken will be good enough for the next little while.

Just don't want to get ahead of myself adding new meats, and my freezer is now getting pretty full!

I am starting to think my cat is gonna eat better than me!

While I was at the pet store the lady there was trying to tell me that a cat with IBD needs fiber, I was like uh huh okay.

She was trying to get me to buy a raw food that has veggies in it, but I steered clear and went for the whole carcass one.

I upped Kitty's probiotic to 4 billion CFU from only one, and she seems lively and happy. So far I have noticed more energy from her, but some days she still just sleeps away an afternoon. That is pretty normal for her though, but the energy and playfulness has increased. She also follows me around constantly wanting more food, but I don't give in. I try to keep her at 200 cal a day, but I hear a lot of people mention not to worry about the calories.

The Carnivora brand suggests feeding a 10lb cat about 1/4 of a patty a day if they are moderately active. What is moderate though for a house cat? I suppose I will just go with that and see how it goes. With the NV I give her 3 medallions a day which was their suggested amount, and is at the 195 calorie amount.

As far as the pee thing goes, well she was on Fancy Feast before this, and it was really moist! She would pee at least 2x a day but the quantity was or seemed like more. The amount she is having is still a good amount, but just seems smaller and she is going around 2x a day still at most. Maybe the canned was really wet, she never drinks much water. As a matter of fact I never see her drink any water at all.

I will hold off on the sardines though, I am glad that some of you have tried it. I know she loves fish! Once this diet settles in a bit I will get her some. Oh and before I forget, while I was at the new pet store, I noticed a butcher right next door! I went in and found out they have fresh liver and kidney available!

I would love to get her some sometime. But again just trying to take it slow.
 

 

[ldg]

Well, right now, no poop is good poop. :lol3:

And you're doing this just right. :nod: Nice, slow introductions, not too many new things.

And yes, on raw we tend to think of it in terms of amount, not calories. People with kitties that need to lose weight may need to factor in calories. But I do everything with a kitchen scale. On raw, they often need less food than they did on canned, because so much more of the food is "usable." That said, the higher protein diet contributes to more lean muscle mass, and that in and of itself helps them burn more calories. So during the transition, it's a good idea to keep track of her weight. Many did weekly weigh-ins, and find-tuned amounts until weight was stable.

 

[carolina]

Well, right now, no poop is good poop. :lol3:
And you're doing this just right. :nod: Nice, slow introductions, not too many new things.
And yes, on raw we tend to think of it in terms of amount, not calories. People with kitties that need to lose weight may need to factor in calories. But I do everything with a kitchen scale. On raw, they often need less food than they did on canned, because so much more of the food is "usable." That said, the higher protein diet contributes to more lean muscle mass, and that in and of itself helps them burn more calories. So during the transition, it's a good idea to keep track of her weight. Many did weekly weigh-ins, and find-tuned amounts until weight was stable.

Absolutely - no poop is good poop - and I will bet the next one will be a good one :bigthumb: :cross:
Rather than calories, feed on weight :nod:
Do you have a kitchen scale? Raw is fed on percentage of weight, rather than calories..... Usually people feed 4% to start - that is WAY too much in my experience.
3% to start is better, IMHO, then go from there depending on weight loss or weight gain.
So - a 10 lb cat would eat 4.8oz (136g) a day, or 3 meals of 1.6oz each (45.36g per meal)
Feeding 3 meals a day in my experience works the best too......

None of my cats eat that much, but I started higher and reduced as time went by. They are now in between 2.3 and 1.7% of their weight (but the one eating 1.7% is on a diet).

 

[oakshimmer]

Yay Kitty! She had a normal poop today!! And on the poop scale I would say it rated a 4 out of 5!

I fed her a Carnivora chicken breakfast this morning, and I noticed it has a lot more blood in it than NV and also looked a lot more moist than the NV brand. I never saw any blood in the NV brand at all. I guess there is a large difference when feeding a whole carcass vs one with veggies and more bone.

The good news is she ate it up with gusto! I still get a little freaked out about feeding her raw, but I am sure this will pass once I get used to it. It is just so different than feeding a regular can of cat food.

I hope she keeps the new chicken brand down, and sticks to having a normal poop. I figure if I just start by giving her one meal of the Carnivora a day and the rest NV for now, I can then see how she does on it for a few days. So for dinner, she will be having Lamb. Late night snack, NV chicken. I hope all still goes well for her. So far since switching to the raw, I have noticed improvement. She usually passes loose stool or diarrhea. Then on her good days she would pass soft stool. Now since the switch, the poop seems firmer but not rock solid. So this is great!

And yes, my cats poop did not stink!

I hope things stay good, as I really want to be able to tell my vet that raw feeding is not as bad as she thinks! I want to be able to tell her that maybe she should reconsider telling people not to feed raw, especially in cases of IBD as it can or may help. I just hope that my cat continues to do well. I still have the overall fear of all the stuff that has been pumped into my head about raw feeding. I still fear her getting sick. Even though I know that she was designed to eat like this. I continue to go forward because I still know that this is likely the only way I am going to be able to help her with her issues.

I will let you all know how she does today after eating the new brand. Has anyone had issues going from one brand to the next if feeding the same protein?
 

 

[ldg]

:bigthumb: :high5: Yay Kitty! She had a normal poop today!! And on the poop scale I would say it rated a 4 out of 5!

Doin' the poop dance! :lol3: That's just GREAT!

Now, VERY interestingly, I found this discussion in the health forum - had to do with soft poop feeding Nature's Variety!!!!!! http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249414/how-to-solidify-poop So thought you might want to take a look.

I fed her a Carnivora chicken breakfast this morning, and I noticed it has a lot more blood in it than NV and also looked a lot more moist than the NV brand. I never saw any blood in the NV brand at all. I guess there is a large difference when feeding a whole carcass vs one with veggies and more bone. :dk: The good news is she ate it up with gusto! I still get a little freaked out about feeding her raw, but I am sure this will pass once I get used to it. It is just so different than feeding a regular can of cat food. :jaw:

I fed only NV at first too, and the first time I had a "juicy" meat it was a little weird (though once I was comfortable with raw, I ordered ground mouse from our equivalent of your Carnivora, and that really gave me the heebie jeebies LOL!).

There are three pathogen-free guaranteed foods, all use the High Pressure Processing process. In Canada, NV is the only one. But in the States, the other two are Primal and Stella & Chewy's. And I've used all of them. And ALL of the "HPP" foods are gray and dry. Honestly, I think the HPP alters the food in some way so that it's not exactly raw. They say it's raw, they call it raw... but I'm not convinced it's actually raw. :dk: And the kitties SO prefer the actual, juicy raw food.

I hope she keeps the new chicken brand down, and sticks to having a normal poop. I figure if I just start by giving her one meal of the Carnivora a day and the rest NV for now, I can then see how she does on it for a few days. So for dinner, she will be having Lamb. Late night snack, NV chicken. I hope all still goes well for her. So far since switching to the raw, I have noticed improvement. She usually passes loose stool or diarrhea. Then on her good days she would pass soft stool. Now since the switch, the poop seems firmer but not rock solid. So this is great! :lol3: And yes, my cats poop did not stink!

I don't remember what proteins she's already eaten, but I do know that with sensitive kitties, adding new proteins slowly is really your best bet for not having problems with vomiting or poop. I started with one variety of NV - rabbit - and worked up to 100% raw on that. When they were eating that at 100%, I added a new protein at 25% of one meal. If that stayed down, I kept it at 25% for a few meals, until I was sure they were pooping OK on it. Then I increased it to 50% of the meal, &etc. Once they were at 100%, then I would add a new brand or protein. I'd give them a meal of something they'd already had 100% here and there, but never a new food or protein until we'd done the 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%. Any time I "violated" that rule, someone threw up or we had diarrhea (and I don't have an IBD kitty). So I'm not sure what foods she's been eating, but just a cautionary reminder to introduce new proteins and new brands, even if a protein she's already had, slowly.

I will let you all know how she does today after eating the new brand. Has anyone had issues going from one brand to the next if feeding the same protein?

Yes, which is why I just wrote what I did about introducing even new brands slowly. :lol3: In fact... that's why Carolina kept the "Poop-O-Meter." :lol3: If Bugsy passed the Poop-O-Meter, then she bumped the amount of new brand or protein from 25% to 50%, &etc. :lol3:

 

[angels mommy]

That's all great news!!  ("YUP", I remember do'n the poopy dance when Angel was having an issue). 

Like I said, you may be the one to educate your vet on raw. "Everything happens for a reason, & in turn, you may end up helping

many other kitties with IBD through getting your vet on board."  Good luck!!!! I hope she will listen to you, now that you will have good results to report!! (How could she not!)

 

[oakshimmer]

Yes, which is why I just wrote what I did about introducing even new brands slowly.

In fact... that's why Carolina kept the "Poop-O-Meter."

If Bugsy passed the Poop-O-Meter, then she bumped the amount of new brand or protein from 25% to 50%, &etc.

Uh oh, well I messed up a little then on that one! I have been feeding her NV chicken raw, and NV Lamb raw. She has been great on both of those. But I just bought her the Carnivora raw chicken yesterday. I thought that maybe she would be fine on the new brand because it was chicken too. I hope we don't get a case of the runs!

There are three pathogen-free guaranteed foods, all use the High Pressure Processing process. In Canada, NV is the only one. But in the States, the other two are Primal and Stella & Chewy's. And I've used all of them. And ALL of the "HPP" foods are gray and dry. Honestly, I think the HPP alters the food in some way so that it's not exactly raw. They say it's raw, they call it raw... but I'm not convinced it's actually raw.

And the kitties SO prefer the actual, juicy raw food.

I totally agree! The meat is really gray even pale looking. I am new at this so to me it all seems weird, but the Carnivora brand looked pretty much like what you would expect if you ground up your own chicken, made a patty and froze it. She really seemed to love it too.

So far she has not exploded, and is resting peacefully on my bed.

Like I said, you may be the one to educate your vet on raw. "Everything happens for a reason, & in turn, you may end up helping

many other kitties with IBD through getting your vet on board."  Good luck!!!! I hope she will listen to you, now that you will have good results to report!! (How could she not!)

I sure hope so, I really think all vets need to get on board with re-educating themselves in cat nutrition. Even the pet store people think they know a thing or two but are usually way off. I can't wait to tell the vet really, but I think I will wait it out a little till I have some time behind us and some real proof of some success! It's only been 9 days since I started the transition, and 4 days of her on 100% raw. It is obvious to me that improvements are being made, so I just keep watching and waiting.

 

[ldg]

We learn by trial and error. We're only here to share experiences. If she's doing fine, then there may be no need to go AS slowly as some of us did, if you're just switching between brands a same protein. What matters is she LOVED it, and it's agreeing with her!!!!!! :cross: