New to raw feeding and have questions!

[mschauer]

There are three pathogen-free guaranteed foods, all use the High Pressure Processing process. In Canada, NV is the only one. But in the States, the other two are Primal and Stella & Chewy's. And I've used all of them. And ALL of the "HPP" foods are gray and dry. Honestly, I think the HPP alters the food in some way so that it's not exactly raw. They say it's raw, they call it raw... but I'm not convinced it's actually raw.

And the kitties SO prefer the actual, juicy raw food.

I'm pretty certain it is still raw in every sense. That kind of color change is usually from oxidation. It's not hard to imagine that the HPP process (which involves pressure) might accelerate oxidation. I have an on going research project to try to understand how oxidation affects the quality of meat. I haven't come to any conclusions yet but I certainly agree that grayish look isn't very appealing and indicates some kind of change in the meat.

 

[ldg]

What I'm wondering, Medora, is do the enzymes remain intact? If the pressure kills bacteria.... does it render the enzymes inactive? :dk: Cooking, in many instances, doesn't destroy a lot of the vitamins and nutrition, but my understanding is it does impact the enzymes. So that, to me, is the real question with the HPP process. It's definitely not COOKED, but.... :dk: :scratch:

 

[mschauer]

What I'm wondering, Medora, is do the enzymes remain intact? If the pressure kills bacteria.... does it render the enzymes inactive?

Cooking, in many instances, doesn't destroy a lot of the vitamins and nutrition, but my understanding is it does impact the enzymes. So that, to me, is the real question with the HPP process. It's definitely not COOKED, but....

I don't know of any reason to think HPP would affect the enzymes in meat. But I don't know it doesn't either... 

 

[ldg]

I don't know of any reason to think HPP would affect the enzymes in meat. But I don't know it doesn't either... 

Exactly. But I don't have any knowledge of enzymes at all to have any idea why it would or wouldn't. :lol3:

 

[oakshimmer]

View media item 135397
My Lovely Kitty, I thought I would post a pic of her so you all could see my little carnivorous friend!

 

[angels mommy]

There are three pathogen-free guaranteed foods, all use the High Pressure Processing process. In Canada, NV is the only one. But in the States, the other two are Primal and Stella & Chewy's. And I've used all of them. And ALL of the "HPP" foods are gray and dry. Honestly, I think the HPP alters the food in some way so that it's not exactly raw. They say it's raw, they call it raw... but I'm not convinced it's actually raw.

And the kitties SO prefer the actual, juicy raw food.

Well, that makes me feel good about the Bravo patties, they are defiantly NOT gray & dry. "Yum,Yum, Juicy blood."  (Yuck!) 

When I pour some from the packet on the meat, I say,"here my little vampire kitty." 

 

[ldg]

View media item 135397

My Lovely Kitty, I thought I would post a pic of her so you all could see my little carnivorous friend!:bigwink:

Oh she is SO beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :love:

Well, that makes me feel good about the Bravo patties, they are defiantly NOT gray & dry. "Yum,Yum, Juicy blood."  (Yuck!) 
When I pour some from the packet on the meat, I say,"here my little vampire kitty."  :lol3:

:lol3: I just say, "here you go, you little monsters!"

 

[Willowy]

If it makes you feel any better, "meat juice" usually isn't blood. . .just meat juice :tongue2:. Of course, ground whole prey is probably processed differently than meat sold for humans, so maybe it is partly blood (I bet they don't bleed the mice! :lol3, but in general, leaving too much blood in the meat can cause spoilage so most of it is out.

 

[angels mommy]

That's good to know!! .... Still yucky!

 

[oakshimmer]

Well so far so good with the no diarrhea from the new food.

However, I did get a tip from another site that has a calculator for raw feeding suggested to feed a 9lb cat around 4oz a day. So I tried that today and this morning I gave her 3tbsp of the new chicken, she ate it all. Dinner I gave her 3tbsp of the lamb NV, and she did not eat it all.

She ate around 2 of those tbsp. So so far she has eaten about 5 tbsp of raw, and that is 3oz of food so far. She seemed full after eating tonight's dinner, so I guess 3oz is all she needs at this point. I guess I won't offer her any snack tonight as it might be too much for her.

I upped it because she acts like she is always hungry, but once I offered her more she seemed full. I suppose it is best to stick to what works. So tomorrow I will resume with feeding her 2tbsp per meal and 1tbsp at snack time.

If it makes you feel any better, "meat juice" usually isn't blood. . .just meat juice

. Of course, ground whole prey is probably processed differently than meat sold for humans, so maybe it is partly blood (I bet they don't bleed the mice!

), but in general, leaving too much blood in the meat can cause spoilage so most of it is out.

Yum "meat juice"

She seemed to really like it, even licked the plate clean! Was like having a steak a little rare I guess.

I am still waiting to see if the new chicken raw (Carnivora) is going to agree with her...

if it didn't, wouldn't it be obvious by now?

It has been almost 8 hours since she ate it and she has not vomited or had the runs.

Also, as a paranoid new raw feeder, if she was to get sick from some kind of bacteria/parasite/pathogen, would you know right away? I only ask because yes, I am still paranoid, but I still want to be informed what to look for in the event it did happen. My dog once got e-coli after a major flood and her only symptom was bloody diarrhea, which was treated with anti-biotics and recovered just fine. Salmonella is not something any of my pets have ever got (knock on wood) so I don't know what to look for with that, and is it treated the same as e-coli?

You all must think I might be a little over the top being freaked out over this, as many of you have been feeding raw for a long time. I just don't know about it. I realize I can have an issue with those above mentioned issues from feeding regular cat/dog food and that there is a risk feeding pretty much anything. I just hope that I don't get my cat sick! Sorry if I annoy you all with my paranoia!

On the bright side,

She has been doing quite well, and so far the changes have all been very positive. So I will be sticking with this. I know that in time my paranoia will fade away and I will realize I worried for no reason. I keep reasoning with myself and thinking "the cat is made to eat this way, stop freaking out"! It's just still so new to me! I truly do appreciate all your support and help while we go through the steps of this big change. All your information, wisdom, and practice make for very sound advice! So thank-you!

 

[carolina]

Also, as a paranoid new raw feeder, if she was to get sick from some kind of bacteria/parasite/pathogen, would you know right away? I only ask because yes, I am still paranoid, but I still want to be informed what to look for in the event it did happen. My dog once got e-coli after a major flood and her only symptom was bloody diarrhea, which was treated with anti-biotics and recovered just fine. Salmonella is not something any of my pets have ever got (knock on wood) so I don't know what to look for with that, and is it treated the same as e-coli

Pretty much.....
I was talking to my vet when I started feeding Bugsy raw, as I was as paranoid as you are , and he told me that since he has been practicing (1987), he only had 2 cases of Salmonella in cats/dogs due to raw, and both of them presented only mild diarrhea and if I remember correct, fever (not absolutely sure). Both recovered just fine with antibiotics and pedialyte. He told me to not worry AT ALL. He said he had a feeling neither cases were because of the meat, but more related to safe-handling issues: improper defrosting, leaving the meat out too long, not cleaning feeding/prep areas, etc. That's what he gathered from speaking to the parents. Both cases were home made raw - he never had a sick animal from commercial raw.
Hope that makes you feel a little better

 

[ldg]

And if she had a problem with a whole meal of something, a sign she had an issue with it (not bacterial, just a "need to go slower on the introduction") would have been regurgitating it as soon as she ate it.

 

[carolina]

And if she had a problem with a whole meal of something, a sign she had an issue with it (not bacterial, just a "need to go slower on the introduction") would have been regurgitating it as soon as she ate it.

playing yeah that tag
fast introductions can bring on diarrhea as well - so, don't fret if you see diarrhea on the box when you introduce new meats - it happens and it doesn't mean the kitty is sick :nod:
It is also very different from diarrhea- usually it is a one time event, one day kind of deal - just take a step back and introduce the meat slower. Everything will be fine once you do that.

 

[oakshimmer]

And if she had a problem with a whole meal of something, a sign she had an issue with it (not bacterial, just a "need to go slower on the introduction") would have been regurgitating it as soon as she ate it.

Well I guess she was okay then as far as that goes, she's held it down all day!

Quote:

 improper defrosting, leaving the meat out too long, not cleaning feeding/prep areas, etc. That's what he gathered from speaking to the parents. Both cases were home made raw - he never had a sick animal from commercial raw.
 

What exactly is improper defrosting?

Like on the counter instead of the fridge? Yes- it does make me feel better knowing he never had a sick animal from eating a commercial raw diet. I suppose that is why I went that way in the first place, to feel "safer".

My routine usually looks like this, and please correct me if I should change some things.

1. I wash my hands.

2. I remove the meat from the commercial bag using a fresh unused baggy, so I don't actually touch the meat.

3. I place the meat into a small sealable container to defrost over night  in the fridge for the next day meals.

4. When preparing the meat to eat, I remove meat from container buy spooning it out on a clean glass plate. Place a paper towel under the plate for feeding to keep meat from getting on the floor and for easy clean up.

5. Remove plate after eating, and wash it and my hands, dispose of paper towel.

The meat never comes into contact with my hands or counters, it only goes from bag to container, container to plate and into my cats belly.

I hope that is safe enough!

I feel like I am doing everything pretty safe, I am trying to be even more careful than I am with my own meat!

 

[ldg]

Sounds quite safe to me! The only difference I have in the feeding routine (since I don't use commercial raw) is that I use placemats under the dishes, and I either wash them or use a quick bleach spray and wipe down on them.

 

[carolina]

Well I guess she was okay then as far as that goes, she's held it down all day! :bigthumb:

Quote:
What exactly is improper defrosting? :dk: Like on the counter instead of the fridge? Yes- it does make me feel better knowing he never had a sick animal from eating a commercial raw diet. I suppose that is why I went that way in the first place, to feel "safer".

That is one example.... Another example would be to defrost in warm water and keep the left overs in the fridge to serve it later If you defrost the meat in warm water, you need to serve the meat and dispose of the meat after the feeding to avoid bacterial issues :nod:

My routine usually looks like this, and please correct me if I should change some things.

1. I wash my hands.
2. I remove the meat from the commercial bag using a fresh unused baggy, so I don't actually touch the meat.
3. I place the meat into a small sealable container to defrost over night  in the fridge for the next day meals.
4. When preparing the meat to eat, I remove meat from container buy spooning it out on a clean glass plate. Place a paper towel under the plate for feeding to keep meat from getting on the floor and for easy clean up.
5. Remove plate after eating, and wash it and my hands, dispose of paper towel.

The meat never comes into contact with my hands or counters, it only goes from bag to container, container to plate and into my cats belly. I hope that is safe enough! I feel like I am doing everything pretty safe, I am trying to be even more careful than I am with my own meat!:lol3:

You are far safer than I am.....
I do touch the meat, and have no problems with it - I just make sure to wash my hands well before and after handling the meat.
I wipe the counter and the scale with clorox anywhere, and after I feed them I also wipe their plate mates with it as well.
They eat in just minutes, and all their plates are immediately washed.

When preparing the meat for freezing, the board is washed in between meats, as well as the knife and the cutting shear. The counter and the scale are wiped with clorox anywhere. After I am done I wipe everything I touched with clorox anywhere.
I like wearing gloves when I am preparing meats for freezing as I don't need to be constantly washing my hands - I just toss a pair out and switch to the next.

 

[oakshimmer]

You are far safer than I am.....
 

Oh! I didn't know I was that safe!

I guess my paranoia got me to where I am in the feeding practice!

Sounds quite safe to me! The only difference I have in the feeding routine (since I don't use commercial raw) is that I use placemats under the dishes, and I either wash them or use a quick bleach spray and wipe down on them.

I would use bleach , but I am horrified since I made my cat really sick and now I never use bleach!

I use Clorox wipes or Lysol wipes (a form of bleach I think) hot water and soap usually. Hope that is good enough...

On the POOP front,

Kitty passed a rather firm stool this morning!

It was rather small too like what everyone describes while feeding a raw diet! So I guess Kitty has no schedule in when she has to go, be it every day or every other day, she just seems to be going when she needs to. I hope that the firm poops are expressing her anal glands, as that was starting to become a problem after all soft stool for so long. I looked at her bum to check...

and things look okay. And she hasn't been licking at it.

I guess the vet will be loosing that 42 bucks every 2 weeks now!

It's funny because I was a partial skeptic about raw feeding. I didn't think that it was going to be this wonderful for my cat and myself. She has been sick for so long, that I just didn't think I would ever see the day when she would be normal again. I have never been against raw feeders, I just thought it was pretty risky after all you have a lot of un informed people and vets telling you all the negative about it and very little positive. I suppose one would have to try it to find out. I am so glad I took the plunge. Finally my cat is having her life back!

My mother said this morning she had to go and see what my cat was up to because she heard a lot of noise in my area of the house, she came to find my cat running like a bat out of hell around the back rooms sliding across the laminate flooring playing with her little catnip mouse!

I told her "it's the food". I swear she does seem to have more energy, although she still likes to sleep a lot through the day. I really hope that this diet change will be all she needs to live a better life, free from diarrhea, I hope to one day maybe get her off all medication. I am usually at the vet for my cat 2x a month or more. Each visit runs me at least $100.00 and I can't wait to see that stop! She does have a cyst on her ear though, so I suppose the vet will be making some money on that one...

We will keep you all posted! She is doing great so far, thank-you all for your support, it means a lot!

 

[ldg]

It's funny because I was a partial skeptic about raw feeding. I didn't think that it was going to be this wonderful for my cat and myself. She has been sick for so long, that I just didn't think I would ever see the day when she would be normal again.

 

[carolina]

What a wonerful report!!!!!


SO happy for you momma!!!!
:cross: that's the end of your baby's diarrhea days, just like it was for Bugsy :cross:
Amazing to think that after ALL those vet visits, all those meds...... All they needed was a change of diet, isn't it? :blobgreen

One thing I wanted to bring to your attention - don't use Lysol wipes - they are toxic

Use Clorox anywhere, or make your own clorox solution with 1 part of bleach to 9 parts of water - put it in a spray bottle and you are ready to go
Clorox anywhere is a 10% clorox solution

Good job momma!!

 

[angels mommy]

Wonderful, wonderful news!!!   Keep us posted on her progress. So far sounds really good!!

 It's always good news when things are looking up on the "poop -a- meter!"