New to caring for a stray/feral and second-guessing myself and need some encouragement and support

[ldg]

Just amazing! Thank you for all you're doing!

I just had to chime in to correct your misconception about FIV+ . It is important, even if you decide not to alter the living situations, that others know that FIV+ cats do NOT need to be separated. All of our pet kitties are former ferals of various ages, and we now have 15 inside, four of them are FIV+.

I had FIV+ cats in our TNR colony, and they do infect other cats. FIV is transmitted via deep, penetrating bite wounds. Even though they are not driven by hormones to fight over females, if they are territorial, they will. You are far more likely to have your outdoor FIV+ cat infect others than having them inside. Inside with proper introductions, it is quite rare to have it transmitted.

Here is a long-term study published last year by the President of Maddie's Fund: No FIV was transmitted in catteries OR shelters in mixed population cats. Not over 4 years, not over 11 years. None. Links to the study in plain English, and the presentations done after she had the data, but before it was published.


http://www.wivotersforcompanionanim...-can-live-harmoniously-with-fiv-negative-cats

http://www.maddiesfund.org/update-on-fiv.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023314000847

There is a discussion, a poll, in the Yahoo group, FIV-healthscience right now. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fiv-healthscience/info

 

[chaucer]

Just amazing!

Thank you for all you're doing!

I just had to chime in to correct your misconception about FIV+ . It is important, even if you decide not to alter the living situations, that others know that FIV+ cats do NOT need to be separated. All of our pet kitties are former ferals of various ages, and we now have 15 inside, four of them are FIV+.

I had FIV+ cats in our TNR colony, and they do infect other cats. FIV is transmitted via deep, penetrating bite wounds. Even though they are not driven by hormones to fight over females, if they are territorial, they will. You are far more likely to have your outdoor FIV+ cat infect others than having them inside. Inside with proper introductions, it is quite rare to have it transmitted.

Here is a long-term study published last year by the President of Maddie's Fund: No FIV was transmitted in catteries OR shelters in mixed population cats. Not over 4 years, not over 11 years. None. Links to the study in plain English, and the presentations done after she had the data, but before it was published.


http://www.wivotersforcompanionanim...-can-live-harmoniously-with-fiv-negative-cats

http://www.maddiesfund.org/update-on-fiv.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023314000847

There is a discussion, a poll, in the Yahoo group, FIV-healthscience right now. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fiv-healthscience/info

Thank you for the important links.  Yes, my friend the microbiologist said something similar.  I will keep this in mind as I want Orville to be able to come in the house during cold or bad weather. The one I'm worried about is Chaucer. He's very playful and sometimes goes overboard with tail fluffed up and the ridge down the back and he won't back down even if Henryetta hisses, growls, and swats. He'll chase her down and I have to sometimes intervene. I'm not sure how he and Orville will manage. One the one occasion when Chaucer rushed out the door before I could stop him, he leaped on Orville and wrestled until I clapped my hands and they both ran across the yard. There was, however, no growling or hissing, and no wounds on Chaucer. I couldn't decide if it was play, over-excitement, or territorial aggression with Chaucer.

It seems that most of the neighborhood cats are female. I'm aware of four outdoor males - Orville, Gray Kitty (who I now realize after seeing Orville's smaller nuggets) is neutered, "Tom" (the father of Henryetta's kittens) and White Kitty with black eyebrows. There are probably others that I haven't seen, but "Tom" and "White Kitty" don't come around now. Orville does not seem particularly aggressive in general but with Chaucer being neutered and behind a screen door,  and the spayed females, including Henryetta, he has no need to be that way.

 

[chaucer]

NOW that is LOVE and Orville knows this.............

Of course, he loves you.......

AND that is why you now have THAT above.

Orville is YOUR cat now and I think your hearts are entwined. SO SWEET. I am so happy for you, hun !!!!! AND for dear Orville.

I must say that I am quite relieved for ALL of us

that Orville did not disappear for a day or two. We would be

bullets over that one. What a little champ, he is.

Thank you so much!  He's a sweet boy. It breaks my heart that he stands at the sliding door looking in, but I also know that he isn't comfortable in the house. He was confined in the crate when he was in the other night, but I think he had one of the most restful nights he's ever had. There was no worry about predators or other cats. He slept so deeply I thought I could hear him snoring.

Now, I won't bore you all with these tales of my three unless there is something important to report. You have been a trooper, Lauren, and the rest of you who have helped me too. Thank you. I couldn't have done it without all of you and this site.

 

[chaucer]

Okay, so I lied!

I just wanted to let you all know that Orville has let me lift him! Not pick him up per se, but I was able to put my hands under his shoulders and lift him onto the top step.  If this cat gets any more tame after the hormones all leave his body, he's going to be a big blob. He is so loving now. In fact, he is just like Henryetta in terms of personality. I know they must have been littermates and lived at the house across the street, or at least under the house across the street and the people fed them. He is still very afraid of other people and runs off. Today, I have to leave for work this morning and when I'm not around, he runs off.  It's pouring rain. I wish I could figure out a way he could live in the house and still have some outside access. If it was just Henryetta, I wouldn't hesitate bringing him in, but Chaucer is a bit jealous I think and will "start" something with his rough housing. I mean he pounces on and bites (in play and no injuries) with Henryetta but if Orville bit Chaucer, well....FIV is possible.

 

[kittyluv387]

But it has to be a deep bite wound for fiv to pass, which isnt common for indoor kitties..however theres plenty of time for them to work on their relationship through the screen door and such.

 

[feralvr]

Make sure your check out all of ldg , Laurie's links in her post above. She is really an expert on FIV. I honestly feel that Orville would be just absolutely fine living indoors with Henryetta and Chaucer. Seriously, he is very sweet and I can't EVER see him attacking and biting your two deeply because that is what would take to pass on the disease. Also - in Laurie's links there are ways to help keep an FIV kitty's immune system up and thriving. Lots of great information. :nod:

Either way - indoors or out - Orville has a great home and I hope that he doesn't worry you too much being outside!!! I know I would worry - because we just don't have control over their safety when living outdoors. I am so glad things are working out so well with Orville and he sounds SO DARN LOVING. :heart3: I bet he is definitely related to Henryetta too.

 

[chaucer]

Thanks, Kittyluv and Feralvr. I have read LDG's links and they are helpful.  Orville and Chaucer swat-fight through the crack in the door.  I am afraid that if Orville is brought in, that Chaucer will "defend" his territory. Neither cat is hissing/growling or fluffed, but the time Chaucer rushed out the door last month and jumped Orville, Chaucer's tail was fluffed and the hair on his back was standing up.  Orville was not fluffed and got out of the wrestling hold and ran off with Chaucer following him. There were no injuries, but in close confinement.....   Chaucer turns on Henryetta when he is "excited" as well.  If it was just Henryetta and Orville, I don't think there would be a problem. Both of these cats are/were outside cats and at least semi-feral.  They know the rules. Chaucer has no boundaries as he has been with me since he was 4 months old. He's known nothing but love and kindness his entire life, whereas these other two were used to being fearful of other cats and humans.

I'm considering investing in that larger dog crate so I can put a small littler box and food/water inside it for Orville. In the cold weather, I'd at least like to have an alternative for him inside the house.

 

[chaucer]

Just when I thought Chaucer and Orville could be buddies, they go at each other through the glass. Both had fluffed-up tails and the hair on Chaucer's back was up. Sigh...  Orville went over and sprayed the tire on my car, something he's not done before.  Earlier this morning, Orville caught a bird by his food bowl and was "playing" with it. (It eventually flew away).  Chaucer was overly-excited by this and I knew better than to touch him. Boy!  He went for my foot. I was fortunate to be wearing my winter house shoe- boot and socks underneath them. I could feel his teeth through them but luckily my skin wasn't broken. It just feels slightly bruised. So, what to do about Orville and Chaucer....  If only Chaucer would play nice!

 

[chaucer]

Another update on Orville -

He is still outside, but this cat has become so very, very loving. It's as if once he opened his heart to love and got over his fear, it just overwhelmed him and he can't get enough of it, much like Henryetta acted when she decided I was hers. I cannot walk outside without Orville weaving around my legs and flopping in front of me. I can't move sometimes without fear of tripping. When I want to go back in, he swats at my feet as I climb the two steps.. He's become very possessive of his new home. I think yesterday's altercation was with one of the neighbor's cats who had come to dine at the wrong time rather than with Chaucer who is very excitable. While Orville will allow Peekaboo to eat a little in the morning, he runs her and Chloe off at other times. I don't think he lets Chloe come over at all now.  Before anyone thinks this is bad, Peekaboo and Chloe are my neighbor's fat, spayed outdoor cats so they are not going to starve. Orville is fat now too.

Henryetta and Chaucer are doing well inside together, but when Chaucer is excited, he turns on Henryetta who shies away from altercations. This is another reason I am doubting the wisdom of bringing Orville inside.

 

[evamilly]

My indoor cat took a swipe at the stray I was feeding outside. However I brought the stray in and separated them for a few weeks - I haven't had any fighting, a few hisses at first but that was it. It is now over a year on and although they are not best buds there is no hissing/fighting. They occasionally touch noses but other than that they ignore each other lol

So you could try bringing him in and separating him in another room for a week or so and do gradual introductions/ sent swapping etc- start from the beginning. You've done so well already! I love this thread - keep us posted

 

[chaucer]

My indoor cat took a swipe at the stray I was feeding outside. However I brought the stray in and separated them for a few weeks - I haven't had any fighting, a few hisses at first but that was it. It is now over a year on and although they are not best buds there is no hissing/fighting. They occasionally touch noses but other than that they ignore each other lol

So you could try bringing him in and separating him in another room for a week or so and do gradual introductions/ sent swapping etc- start from the beginning. You've done so well already! I love this thread - keep us posted

That's what happened with Chaucer and Henryetta and it would be great if Orville and Chaucer would be that way. Unfortunately, my house is kind of open plan and the kitchen/two bathrooms have those pocket doors which enterprising Chaucer can open!  Chaucer and Henryetta will sleep, play and eat with each other.

I am introducing Orville to the delights of warmth and comfort. Currently, he is lying on an old bath rug covered with an old towel that smells like me (I took the old towel and rubbed it over me so it would).  This is in preparation of the insulated storage tub idea I got from this site. If all goes well with that, I may have a small "cat house" built around the tub in the carport. There's room to the side of the steps and I have extra bricks from the house to do it or an old brick incinerator could be torn down. I mean, the cat house should match the rest of the house, right?

 

[chaucer]

So I'm updating on Orville (and the other ones showing up):

A friend cut the door into one of those plastic tubs so that Orville could have a shelter.  The foam ice chests available were too small. Orville's a large cat - around 12+ pounds- so my tenant gave me some insulation board to use instead, but they were also too thick so I used only a few smaller pieces. After all of this, Orville wouldn't go in. I finally had to go out and return the "bed" to its original state, turning the tub on its side and blocking the hole with a bigger piece of insulation board. He slept halfway in the tub on his plush doggy bed that's covered with one of those plush blankets and surrounded by towels and bath rugs.   Considering  getting one of those heated cat houses. There's a plug-in on the carport. Or there is still the possibility of building a brick house or turning a large, vintage wooden swamp cooler box into a cat house It just needs a lid, door cut, insulation and weather-proofing the exterior.

I've had a few other dinner guests lately - gorgeous black/white tuxedo-ish cat with a Groucho mustache, and then a half-grown black cat showed up meowing. None of these cats seem especially scared of me. I must be on the Cat GPS.

 

[feralvr]

I've had a few other dinner guests lately - gorgeous black/white tuxedo-ish cat with a Groucho mustache, and then a half-grown black cat showed up meowing. None of these cats seem especially scared of me. I must be on the Cat GPS.

Cat's know when there is a cat lover inside a house!!! I think the food gives it away too. :lol3: SEE, you may need those crates/traps down the road for those who need to be fixed. It never ends - the cats do keep coming and it sounds like in your area there are quite a few unaltered cats roaming around breeding.

Not sure if I posted these sites but some ideas for kitty shelters BUT you already sound like you are a great path for a very warm home for Orville this winter. :nod: :bigthumb:

I used the Feral Villa with great success and put in a heating pad in the top portion of the villa. http://www.feralvilla.com/ This is the heating pads that I use.
Some cat shelter ideas too, if you have not already seen them though...

http://www.alleycat.org/ShelterGallery
http://urbancatleague.org/WinterCatShelters

[article="32458"][/article]

 

[chaucer]

I think he keeps most of the other cats away now that he actually lives here. The only one who comes over when he's around is one of the spayed females that belongs to my neighbor. I haven't seen the black/white and little black one except that one time.  

The vet told me she felt it would be unwise to bring Orville in to live. It may be because Chaucer has frequent intestinal infections, but she also felt Orville shouldn't be sharing food, water or litter boxes with either of my indoor cats even though the risk would be small that the could become infected with FIV. I wasn't worried about any deep bites. Orville and Chaucer paw-play through the door crack a lot. Neither hisses nor growls.

 

[chaucer]

For those still following the saga of Chaucer, Henryetta, Orville and the other feral/stray/semi-ferals in my neighborhood, here's a little update:

Orville is doing well but he is still outside and staying in his plastic tub bed, extra blankets now.  I have a separate thread about his FIV status and concerns about bringing him inside with my my FIV-  two.  He's become even more affectionate since it has been six weeks or so since his vet visit and neutering. I am able to pick him up, but not carry him around much.  I don't know if he ever had human interaction, but I suspect that he might have had a little. I don't know if ferals actually do turn around like this if they haven't had human interaction. He's a pretty laid-back cat.  I plan to try and bring him inside after the holidays. Orville doesn't seem to want to come inside, though. I just don't want him outside when it gets really cold. (And I feel really bad for not setting Henryetta up with her own little bed back when I was feeding her during the winter.)

Gray Kitty still comes around sometimes and Orville, unlike other cats, doesn't have an issue with him. Gray Kitty is less hissy and growly now since Orville's around. I suspect they are brothers since they are both big tabbies with white.  I am not making a point of feeding Gray Kitty, though. Athough Chaucer's reaction to Gray Kitty is not so negative now, I don't want to encourage another cat to spend time around here. Chaucer sometimes takes out his aggression/frustration on Henryetta. 

The black/whtie and black kitties have not been back.  I haven't seen Delphine but that one brief glimpse. With Orville living here now, most cats that aren't his friends don't show up here - Gray Kitty and the neighbor's two spayed females are the ones he hangs with at times.

One of Henryetta's kittens is now a 12 pounder, and it's Miss Honeychurch who was the youngest, I think, and the smallest, and the one who was the last to do everything. Now she's probably the biggest and smartest - she plays fetch and brings the ball back to her owners, and she pulls out the bathtub drain plug and drags it out of the tub to play with in the living room..

 

[kittyluv387]

Ive been wondering whats going on with chaucer and the gang these days. How exciting youre planning in bringing him in after the holidays!

 

[feralvr]

Thank you!  Orville does not want to be inside anything. The tub was cut to have an opening but he wouldn't go in and was lying on the doormat. I couldn't stand that so I fixed it back.  This is something I'm considering having made into a house - It's circa 40's form of air-conditioning. The bottom is straw with mesh over where ice would go (the hose is where it drained out) and a fan would blow over the large block of ice. Anyway, I thought it would make a good house with a little work. The opening would have to be pretty good-sized for Orville to consider it and there would need to be an escape hole in the back somewhere, but perhaps those could be covered with plastic sheeting so he could still see out, but would block some of the wind.

swamp cooler.jpg

• chaucer
• Nov 22, 2015

I think he keeps most of the other cats away now that he actually lives here. The only one who comes over when he's around is one of the spayed females that belongs to my neighbor. I haven't seen the black/white and little black one except that one time.  

The vet told me she felt it would be unwise to bring Orville in to live. It may be because Chaucer has frequent intestinal infections, but she also felt Orville shouldn't be sharing food, water or litter boxes with either of my indoor cats even though the risk would be small that the could become infected with FIV. I wasn't worried about any deep bites. Orville and Chaucer paw-play through the door crack a lot. Neither hisses nor growls.

Sorry- I am not on site here as regular - at least for the moment, hence the delay!!! First - cats cannot get FIV from water or food bowls or even grooming each other - only can be transmitted via a deep bite. I certainly think that what ever you decide for Orville is absolutely wonderful! He is loved and cared for and ALSO now neutered which will give him a better quality of life - indoor OR outdoor, for sure.

He certainly will keep the other cats away!! Most of the TNRd feral/friendly cats that live outdoors of their caretaker's homes will keep other cats from coming into the territory but usually they may befriend one or two and keep them around. The shelter box looks just great and how clever of you to think of using the old circa 40's A/C box!!! It could really be a nice shelter. It does take them time to venture inside. Having two exit options is important for the cat's to be willing to stay inside of the shelter just in case a stranger comes to front door - . I think a clear top may or may not help to get him inside but is a great idea too. I may use Plexi-glass as a top option. A clear top would not be very insulating UNLESS the sun is shining, of course. Do post a picture of the house once it is finalized and IF you take on the project.

 

[chaucer]

Ive been wondering whats going on with chaucer and the gang these days. How exciting youre planning in bringing him in after the holidays!

We shall see. He has a habit of swatting my leg when I go inside the house. The other day he "got me" between the top of my sock and pajama leg and stuck his claw in and scratched me. He's on Santa's Naught List now. I think he does this because he doesn't want me to go inside, but still he needs to stop this if he wants to be an inside cat.  I'm not even sure he wants this.

 

[chaucer]

Sorry- I am not on site here as regular - at least for the moment, hence the delay!!! First - cats cannot get FIV from water or food bowls or even grooming each other - only can be transmitted via a deep bite. I certainly think that what ever you decide for Orville is absoluteTly wonderful! He is loved and cared for and ALSO now neutered which will give him a better quality of life - indoor OR outdoor, for sure.

He certainly will keep the other cats away!! Most of the TNRd feral/friendly cats that live outdoors of their caretaker's homes will keep other cats from coming into the territory but usually they may befriend one or two and keep them around. The shelter box looks just great and how clever of you to think of using the old circa 40's A/C box!!! It could really be a nice shelter. It does take them time to venture inside. Having two exit options is important for the cat's to be willing to stay inside of the shelter just in case a stranger comes to front door -

. I think a clear top may or may not help to get him inside but is a great idea too. I may use Plexi-glass as a top option. A clear top would not be very insulating UNLESS the sun is shining, of course. Do post a picture of the house once it is finalized and IF you take on the project.

Thank you for still checking in here. We all have lives to lead that don't have anything to do with cats. ; )

I thought of a clear top that I could cover with a blanket or something. I've got insulation to go inside the wood and I'd have it put on bricks to keep it off the carport. Rain can blow in and I wouldn't want the wood getting wet on the bottom. I think a deck coating would help too. He does g inside the tub and behind the blanket and towel draped over it when he gets cold. It doesn't feel that warm in there even though I have insulation on the top bottom and sides.  I'm thinking of putting a plastic drop sheet over it as well.

The other day I had the storage room doors open while waiting on movers. I looked out and Orville was going in and out of the storage room. I'm not sure he would want to live in there but since a large piece of furniture was sold and moved out, I have more options. 

 

[kittyluv387]

We shall see. He has a habit of swatting my leg when I go inside the house. The other day he "got me" between the top of my sock and pajama leg and stuck his claw in and scratched me. He's on Santa's Naught List now. I think he does this because he doesn't want me to go inside, but still he needs to stop this if he wants to be an inside cat.  I'm not even sure he wants this.

But he may not do that if hes inside with you perhaps.