New to caring for a stray/feral and second-guessing myself and need some encouragement and support

[chaucer]

Prattling on:  I bought a dog crate today to see if I can get Orville into it.  He's been too smart for the carrier. He would go partially in and the paw the food toward him and take it outside the carrier to eat. I think the carrier was too small for him so that is why I bought a crate.  The crate was smaller than I wanted - 25-30 pound dog but it was the one that would fit in the back of my hatchback car. Well, that's not exactly right. The bigger crate would go but there would lots of fussing and pushing it around and with a wild cat in it, I need something fairly easy to remove.  I may have to get another larger crate for the house though. I feel I can donate the crates to the vet or the local shelter after I no longer need them. I've got the crate sitting outside with the door open right now. Daytime is the time I can hopefully get him and take him to the vet anyway. The vet is  just about a half-mile from my house so the ride will be short, if not sweet.

Orville has become so loving!  He rubs his head on my shoe now before he flops ON my feet. I was able to do the double-hand stroke several times down his back and he let me rub his back while he was lying down once, and he let me rub his sides. His sides feel kind of hard. One of my neighbors did not think he was the cat I'd been talking about because she thought the one she was seeing was pregnant due to a belly. If Orville didn't have a pair, I'd think he was too, which is why I rubbed his sides a little. He's got that poke out sides look. He's definitely getting fatter, but he is also eating a cup of dry food a day, plus any treats I give him. Sometimes if the weather is not good, I'll give him a can of cat food and he gobbles it down. He's a little piggy just like Henryetta!  He's also been coming up to the screen, rubbing his head on the top step and lying down while Chaucer sits on the other side. Is this a sign of Orville accepting Chaucer as the dominant cat (or at least just respecting his territory?)  Henreytta just backs away from Orville, but she is like that with Chaucer too. Very vocal if she doesn't want him around her. Still hisses and growls at him when he pesters her. I think she will be like this with Orville as well. Chaucer, I don't know. He may like a cat that likes to play. Orville does enjoy his toys.

 

[feralvr]

. The bigger crate would go but there would lots of fussing and pushing it around and with a wild cat in it, I need something fairly easy to remove.  .

Girls will be girls. My Perla is hissy and growly towards the boys on and off AND can let out THE loudest scream if they really cross a line with her, which is easy to do. Henryetta is just that way - gotta love the princesses.

Obviously, Orville and Chaucer may become fast friends since they are seemingly quite comfortable with each other being near on either side of the screen door. It may be nice for Chaucer to have a buddy to play with and rough house with. Henryetta will watch in the background with eyes slanted with a bit of added aversion AND in the hopes that they stay away from her!! At least, this is what Perla does here.

Cats lying down near another, even with back turned, is not a sign of dominance or submission. BUT, it does mean they are very accepting/trusting of each other and feel safe in their space. I think the screen door is still a safety barrier and both Orville and Chaucer know it.

As for the crates, KEEP THEM !!! I honestly think you may need them in the future if you need to trap another cat, and release, just for neutering. If the dog crate is large enough, I usually put a small carrier inside of the dog crate. Then once the cat is inside of the dog crate, it is easy to get them to go inside of the smaller carrier by way of yard stick. Then you use the yard stick to close over the door of the carrier by sliding it through the sides of the dog crate - all the way through - so the door can't be pushed open. Then you open up the dog crate, and latch closed the small carrier with a gloved hand. And, then you can pull out the yard stick.

I quoted your statement above because usually most feral cats are extremely quiet, not making a sound, once in the car and in transport. Make sure you have a large blanket to completely cover the crate AND put plastic down underneath the crate inside of your car. Lining the plastic with newspaper too, just in case.

Editing to add. I meant to mention this ! IF a cat is loud and meowing, moving and scratching in the crate/trap on the way to vet in the car after capture, then that cat is most likely a "friendly" and has had human contact. In my experience, anyway!

 

[kittyluv387]

I also say keep the crates! Cant wait for the next update.

 

[kittychick]

So can I blame you when I yawn all day tomorrow? I've been up half the night - started your posts/"blog" and couldn't stop!!! I've had so many similar feelings/worries etc over my years of TNRing/fostering/socializing etc (as probably all of us have had at some point in the learning process!) - that I was riveted!!!! I too started out just "helping one neighborhood feral situation" (although I've fostered & helped place literally over 100 for local shelters- which which might explain why we have 4 inside fur balls) of very feral mom who'd given birth under a neighbor's deck....we too now feel like we have a "cat legible only" sign somewhere as we've now TNR'd around 15 in just the past year and a half (& socialized & found homes for a few). Plus last year we also brought one feral in for good. So much for "helping one." Although our little ex-feral "Flick" has turned out to be the most loving cat I've ever had! I said - I feel like I know every feeling you've been feeling

And @Feralvr ---I've so often gotten so much help from you --I've got to say your comments, compassion - & what can only be described as a friendship - for @Chaucer is so wonderful & touching!!!! I love love love this thread!!!!

You'll both laugh at this --never say out loud "it'll be nice to go into that awful winter season knowing the whole neighborhood is fixed --and none appear to be living 24/7 in our yard for us to get extra attached to & worry about." Cut to last week -- a gorgeous guy we call Crosby that we TNR'd earlier this summer showed up with what can only be described as his best buddy (they literally walk everywhere with sides touching & tails entertwined!!!!!!) ...whose "nuggets" (@Chaucer - that's my new favorite term!) are very very definitely intact. (My hubby named him "Brady" after we had multiple discussions about the cat's overly inflated balls Then two nights ago FOUR more (who are very obviously very very related to Brady as they're identical looking - luckily all ear tipped). So your thread REALLY touched a nerve as I went from telling myself when they showed up en masse -all very feral acting --to yesterday being able to get both Brady & Crosby to actually take chicken out of my hand! And staying up till 2 am making two more "double Rubbermaid tote" feral houses and ordering two more outdoor heated kitty beds

Anyway ....you obviously both really made me smile & worry right along with you! And if you need any more input on making shelters for the leagues making their way to your house or to help you sleep if you do have to put Orville back outside.....or introducing yet another feral that you're never going to keep (wink wink) I'm happy to chime in --although I think @feralvr more than has you covered!!!

 

[kittychick]

And we use almost an identical system as @feralvr with the cat crate in a large dog crate ---it's a great system!!!! (Probably got the idea from her ages ago anyway!!!)

And meant to say too --what a WONDERFUL neighborhood cat guardian youve become!!!! Your willingness to help that neighbor spay & generally get her cats made me tear up!!!! When I think of the horrible phone calls from or about uncaring people at the cat shelter I volunteer for ----if only we had only one person like you in every neighborhood, the world (for us AND the kitties of the world) would be a MUCH better place!!!!!!!!!

 

[chaucer]

And we use almost an identical system as @feralvr with the cat crate in a large dog crate ---it's a great system!!!! (Probably got the idea from her ages ago anyway!!!)

And meant to say too --what a WONDERFUL neighborhood cat guardian youve become!!!! Your willingness to help that neighbor spay & generally get her cats made me tear up!!!! When I think of the horrible phone calls from or about uncaring people at the cat shelter I volunteer for ----if only we had only one person like you in every neighborhood, the world (for us AND the kitties of the world) would be a MUCH better place!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so very much for your kind words, and for reading through this long thing. Can you tell I'm a writer?  In fact, I'm writing a book at the moment. It's not about cats, though. Satire/Social Commentary Chick-Lit style.

It's been a challenge, as you could no doubt tell. I was thrilled to find this site when I first started feeding Henryetta. Although I've had cats all my life, I'd never taken care of a feral/semi-feral.  I couldn't have done it without the support of this site, and especially Feralvr and a few others on here. Henryetta is the most loving cat I've ever had, and that's saying something since my Himi-Ragdoll mix from Operation Kindness was extremely loving. I'm so glad things worked out with Henryetta-James. She and Chaucer are, despite her hissy fits and his pestering, bonded. I could have the vet put them in the same large crate if I should need to leave them there sometime.  Orville would eventually  fit in, at least I think he would. He's got Henryetta's temperament in terms of loving traits, but he's also got Chaucer's sense of play. I think he would probably "walk a way" from confrontations like Henryetta does. Chaucer's a spoiled cat who has never fended for himself and had to defend himself, his kittens or his territory. Orville does sometimes try to run off another neighbor's spayed cats.

I don't know how great that was that I helped the woman take her cat and five kittens to the shelter. It seems there was another outbreak of illness among the cats there and I don't know if these six survived. I was sad, horrified,  and felt extremely guilty when I recently learned about this. I can't tell the woman who trusted me to help. I don't  want to take any more animals out there at the moment.  They euthanized two lost Shitz-Tsu mixes I called the Animal Control to collect. No one in my neighborhood knew where the pair lived and I was afraid they would get run over on the busy street. The dogs had heartworms it seems and this small-town shelter can't afford to do a lot of treatments.

The crate is only a few inches longer than the carrier so it's the crate only right now. Yesterday, Orville went in part of the way and ate his food. I've just got to get a very small amount of canned food or tuna in water back there where he HAS to go all the way inside. I've been practicing closing the door and sliding the bolt quickly.

So sorry to keep you awake reading this, but it's nice to know it was entertaining reading.

 

[chaucer]

I also say keep the crates! Cant wait for the next update.

Thank you!  I'm not sure what I will do about Orville's post-capture life. I want to make him an indoor-only cat which means I will have to crate him for a while.. Chaucer and Henryetta got to spend time together in the storage room after she had the kittens, but that wasn't during Fall and Winter. He mainly liked to go out there and play with Miss Honeychurch who was the last kitten to be adopted.

 

[chaucer]

Girls will be girls. My Perla is hissy and growly towards the boys on and off AND can let out THE loudest scream if they really cross a line with her, which is easy to do.

Henryetta is just that way - gotta love the princesses.

Obviously, Orville and Chaucer may become fast friends since they are seemingly quite comfortable with each other being near on either side of the screen door. It may be nice for Chaucer to have a buddy to play with and rough house with. Henryetta will watch in the background with eyes slanted with a bit of added aversion AND in the hopes that they stay away from her!! At least, this is what Perla does here.

Cats lying down near another, even with back turned, is not a sign of dominance or submission. BUT, it does mean they are very accepting/trusting of each other and feel safe in their space. I think the screen door is still a safety barrier and both Orville and Chaucer know it.

As for the crates, KEEP THEM !!! I honestly think you may need them in the future if you need to trap another cat, and release, just for neutering. If the dog crate is large enough, I usually put a small carrier inside of the dog crate. Then once the cat is inside of the dog crate, it is easy to get them to go inside of the smaller carrier by way of yard stick. Then you use the yard stick to close over the door of the carrier by sliding it through the sides of the dog crate - all the way through - so the door can't be pushed open. Then you open up the dog crate, and latch closed the small carrier with a gloved hand. And, then you can pull out the yard stick.

I quoted your statement above because usually most feral cats are extremely quiet, not making a sound, once in the car and in transport. Make sure you have a large blanket to completely cover the crate AND put plastic down underneath the crate inside of your car. Lining the plastic with newspaper too, just in case.

Editing to add. I meant to mention this ! IF a cat is loud and meowing, moving and scratching in the crate/trap on the way to vet in the car after capture, then that cat is most likely a "friendly" and has had human contact. In my experience, anyway!

Thank you. Henryetta was silent in the carrier on the trip to a different vet and I know she had some human contact, but was pretty obviously never taken to the vet. Orville may be the same.

The screen door is definitely a safety barrier.  I stand there with it open a crack so they can paw-fight. There's no hissing or growling with them. Henryetta hisses and growls at Chaucer when he "plays" with Orville though.  Henryetta does sound like Perla! 

 

[chaucer]

Oh my God!  I got him!  He's in the crate!  He is not happy at all. He howled.  I'm going to try to get him to the vet as soon as they open.

 

[chaucer]

Update:  I got the blanket-covered crate in my car with no problems and then drove to the vet. He howled a little for the ride but settled right before we got there. It was a half-mile trip. I sat for a half-hour in the car until the vet opened at 8:00.  The vet came out and got the crate for me. I'm sure he and the staff thought I looked goofy.  No makeup, hair in a messy pony-tail and wearing a heavy coat, along with wearing two pairs of gloves. I found vintage, dirty, men's work gloves in the chest of drawers in the storage room.  I wore my own knit gloves under the work gloves. The vet just picked up the covered crate barehanded.

Orville will be neutered, wormed (treated for fleas), have his rabies shot and will be tested for FIV and FeLV, and maybe, just maybe they will keep him overnight. I'd like it over the weekend, just because I have no place for him now

I don't think they are going to keep him over night. They don't generally keep male cats overnight after neutering I was told. I have to figure something out because the crate is not big enough for a litter tray or food/water. The storage room isn't prepared right now either. I don't want the piano I have sold and awaiting pick up to be damaged by an frightened cat scratching on it or using the dismantled antique four poster bed for a scratching post.

.

By the way, I was terrified when I caught him. My heart was racing, and when he started howling in the crate, I almost let him go. He was so upset, but he was better when I covered it with a blanket.  This was not like Henryetta who walked right in the regular cat carrier to eat a bite of food and didn't make much of a fuss at all. She even let the vet's receptionist/nurse pick her up and put her in a cage. Maybe that had to do with Henryetta having had more human contact in the past or that she was pregnant.  

This vet's receptionist who has trapped cats herself said he wasn't as bad as some she'd seen. I told her that I'd received lots of support, help and encouragement from this site.

 

[chaucer]

Okay, some good and bad news about Orville.  He did really well and is neutered, but he did test positive for FIV so that means he will have to remain an outside cat. In a way, I'm relieved about this as I was really concerned about having three cats in the house, although I would have figured something out,  but I'm also sad about him having it.  I'm very glad that when Chaucer raced out that day and jumped Orville that there were no bite wounds on Chaucer. Orville willstill his rabies and FeLv shots and worming and I will continue to care for him. I almost said not to worm him.

 

[feralvr]

By the way, I was terrified when I caught him. My heart was racing, and when he started howling in the crate, I almost let him go. He was so upset, but he was better when I covered it with a blanket. 

FIRST OFF!!!!!!!!!!!! :high5: :bigthumb: WONDERFUL that you finally trapped Orville !!! YOU GO GIRL !!!!! I had to laugh when you said you showed up at the vet's office looking the way you did. Been there, done that !!! :lol3: Oh well - beauty second to the cat's. And BOY do I know about that heart racing feeling.....

OH DEAR - never let them out once they are trapped no matter how upset they become. THANK GOODNESS - your mind took over your heart. I have seen some feral cats thrash so hard they break the skin on their nose and paw pads. Once covered and put somewhere quiet, they tend to go into "shock" mode and become extremely quiet as a mouse. They all freak out when first caught in the trap or cage - it is a given. :nod:

Okay, some good and bad news about Orville.  He did really well and is neutered, but he did test positive for FIV so that means he will have to remain an outside cat. In a way, I'm relieved about this as I was really concerned about having three cats in the house, although I would have figured something out,  but I'm also sad about him having it.  I'm very glad that when Chaucer raced out that day and jumped Orville that there were no bite wounds on Chaucer. Orville willstill his rabies and FeLv shots and worming and I will continue to care for him. I almost said not to worm him.

I am sorry about the +FIV but it is not a death sentence like FeLK. Of course, a deep bite wound will transfer the disease to another cat. You are doing right by Orville in that now he will not be able to produce other kittens and you are saving lives by getting him neutered. :happy3: He will have a much better life, even outdoors, being altered, his hormones will settle down, he will not have the desire to fight and he will be much healthier for it. :high5: Orville still has a home with you, hun... don't feel bad about it at all. You are saving lives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He can be released today/tonight once he is fully awake. No worries about that and don't worry about him. He may disappear for a day or two OR NOT at all. We will just have to wait and see. :cross:

 

[kittyluv387]

Wow congrats on capturing Orville. Too bad about his FIV status tho. :/ But its true 3 cats sound like a lot to handle indoors. But he will still have a great and longer life because of you. And he can have a nice outdoor setup.

I also got my first kitten over two months ago at OK. Pretty expensive but the animals look very well cared for and they do have a no-kill policy.

 

[chaucer]

FIRST OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

WONDERFUL that you finally trapped Orville !!! YOU GO GIRL !!!!! I had to laugh when you said you showed up at the vet's office looking the way you did. Been there, done that !!!

Oh well - beauty second to the cat's.

And BOY do I know about that heart racing feeling.....

OH DEAR - never let them out once they are trapped no matter how upset they become. THANK GOODNESS - your mind took over your heart.

I have seen some feral cats thrash so hard they break the skin on their nose and paw pads. Once covered and put somewhere quiet, they tend to go into "shock" mode and become extremely quiet as a mouse. They all freak out when first caught in the trap or cage - it is a given.

I am sorry about the +FIV but it is not a death sentence like FeLK. Of course, a deep bite wound will transfer the disease to another cat. You are doing right by Orville in that now he will not be able to produce other kittens and you are saving lives by getting him neutered.

He will have a much better life, even outdoors, being altered, his hormones will settle down, he will not have the desire to fight and he will be much healthier for it.

Orville still has a home with you, hun... don't feel bad about it at all. You are saving lives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He can be released today/tonight once he is fully awake. No worries about that and don't worry about him. He may disappear for a day or two OR NOT at all. We will just have to wait and see.

Thank you for the encouragement. I was disappointed, but then things have a way of working out for the best I suppose. It would have been a challenge to have three cats.

I brought him home almost an hour ago. He is in the crate which means he is outside in the carport. So far he has been pleasant. I just put some wet food on a spoon and he ate it from that so I put a little inside on the crate floor. I'll be letting him out as soon as he is over the grogginess. I don't know how long that will be. He was neutered by 9:30 this morning  I hear him meowing. When he starts trying to get out of the crate, I guess that will be when it's time.

If I didn't have an indoor cat, I wouldn't hesitate to keep him. FIV cats can live good long lives with love and care. I'm hoping to provide love and care outside, but I doubt I'll be able to ever get him back to the vet for another rabies shot. I should have asked for the three year one.

 

[chaucer]

Wow congrats on capturing Orville. Too bad about his FIV status tho. :/ But its true 3 cats sound like a lot to handle indoors. But he will still have a great and longer life because of you. And he can have a nice outdoor setup.

I also got my first kitten over two months ago at OK. Pretty expensive but the animals look very well cared for and they do have a no-kill policy.

Thank you so much!  I hope he will have a good life. I'm going to try and help him as best I can.

Operation Kindness is such a good shelter. The animals are well cared for and they don't turn away special needs cats and dogs.   When I lived in Dallas, I used to attend the Canines, Cats & Cabernet event.

 

[kittychick]

I can definitely tell you're a writer! Good luck with the book!!!

I hate to say much being so late to the party advice-wise ...and I know there will be differing input but FIV cats can be with other kitties if they're not big biters/"scrappers" since it's basically spread through deep bite wounds. So if his/the group temperament is good - it would be ok to keep him inside as part of the group (I only know this be our shelter has recently seen a sharp uptick in FIV in our area - and we've had lots of conversations with the best vet in our area--and they've reversed their recommendation that FIV cats can only go to "only cat" households). But know that I also TOTALLY understand if you're still not comfortable having him inside. And yes - 3 is a lot of cats (we were up to 6 plus fosters and I can say - it is a lot! Of hair, food, litter cleaning, bodies in bed, you name it!!!). Releasing Orville back outside is far from a death sentence - particularly now that he'll go back out neutered! I think I remember you saying you were in a slightly southern state (Tenessee maybe?), so you don't have to worry about the extreme cold like we have in northern Ohio. But you might think about providing a nice warm shelter for him so that you're assured he's warm & dry this winter (& that he stays close so you can keep tabs!). We put outdoor -rated low-wattage heated cat passing them too for added comfort. We also use a heated water bowl so we don't have to worry about water being frozen.

Any questions on any of that - just ask & you'll get tons of help! Good luck on releasing him -and as @feralvr said, try not to panic if he disappears for a few days after release (I know, easier said than done!). We've only had 1 not come back! He'll remember which side his bread is buttered on

Keep us posted! We too need to trap one we've been really earning the trust of, and it's tough to watch them stress!!! I'm already nervous about it despite having done it a bunch -the sweeter & more trusting they've become - in some ways, the worse it feels! We just have to keep reminding ourselves they're SO much better off fixed!!! Good luck to you and to Orville!!!

 

[chaucer]

Thank you, Kittychick!

One of my friends is a microbiologist and she told me much the same. Orville seems to be the type to walk away from a fight if he can. He's had some wounds, limped a time or two and I noticed that he has a missing small front tooth, and maybe a side one too.  He was meowing loudly yesterday and I could see in his mouth.  Chaucer isn't a fighter but he does like to roughhouse.  Henryetta is the one I'm afraid would get into it with him. She's an ex-feral/semi-feral and the vet said she had a little "street cred."  She's also hissy and growling but not attacking, but I don't think she would be above it if she really felt it was necessary.

 

[chaucer]

FIRST OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

WONDERFUL that you finally trapped Orville !!! YOU GO GIRL !!!!! I had to laugh when you said you showed up at the vet's office looking the way you did. Been there, done that !!!

Oh well - beauty second to the cat's.

And BOY do I know about that heart racing feeling.....

OH DEAR - never let them out once they are trapped no matter how upset they become. THANK GOODNESS - your mind took over your heart.

I have seen some feral cats thrash so hard they break the skin on their nose and paw pads. Once covered and put somewhere quiet, they tend to go into "shock" mode and become extremely quiet as a mouse. They all freak out when first caught in the trap or cage - it is a given.

I am sorry about the +FIV but it is not a death sentence like FeLK. Of course, a deep bite wound will transfer the disease to another cat. You are doing right by Orville in that now he will not be able to produce other kittens and you are saving lives by getting him neutered.

He will have a much better life, even outdoors, being altered, his hormones will settle down, he will not have the desire to fight and he will be much healthier for it.

Orville still has a home with you, hun... don't feel bad about it at all. You are saving lives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He can be released today/tonight once he is fully awake. No worries about that and don't worry about him. He may disappear for a day or two OR NOT at all. We will just have to wait and see.

room

He still LOVES me!  I released him a little while ago and he went quickly out and into the side yard where I am guessing he went to the bathroom, not being able to since I took him to the vet.  After that, he trotted back and came up to me, rubbing around my legs. I put down his food and he ate a little and then came back to me, rubbed around me and flopped at me feet and rolled over on his back. It makes it hard for me to not want to bring him in, but it's not a good thing. Not only is he FIV positive but his presence upsets Henryetta. He is at the sliding door looking in right now.

The vet told me to just set the crate on my carport, but I couldn't do that to him. The storage room was full and I didn't want to move things out for one night so I put Chaucer and Henryetta in the bedrooms, shut the doors and brought Orville in his crate into my den for the night. Not wanting to leave him in there, and I was a little worried he might figure out how to open the crate, I stayed on the sofa all night. The sofa is only 5 ft an I'm 5'7" so I did not really sleep last night. Dozing off/on until 2:00 AM when I heard Chaucer banging on the bedroom door. He's got his own problems (dark gray stool that has a putrid odor that I'd been trying to figure out for the past week - thought it was my new fabric softener and was vowing not to get it again as it was sickeningly sweet. Unfortunately, it was Chaucer.) 

 Actually, I think Orville was comforted by my presence. When he was in the crate on the carport until I brought him in, he would cry and then settle down when I went out.  In the house, Orville slept most of the night. I spoon-fed Orville wet food through the crate bars.

 

[chaucer]

Orville55.jpg

• chaucer
• Oct 31, 2015

Orville this morning about two hours after I released him. After this, he rolled on his back exposing his stomach. He likes to lie on my feet.

 

[feralvr]

He still LOVES me!

Not wanting to leave him in there, and I was a little worried he might figure out how to open the crate, I stayed on the sofa all night. 

 Actually, I think Orville was comforted by my presence. When he was in the crate on the carport until I brought him in, he would cry and then settle down when I went out.  In the house, Orville slept most of the night. I spoon-fed Orville wet food through the crate bars.

:heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: :heart3: :heart2: NOW that is LOVE and Orville knows this............. :rub: Of course, he loves you....... :heart2:

Orville55.jpg

• chaucer
• Oct 31, 2015

Orville this morning about two hours after I released him. After this, he rolled on his back exposing his stomach. He likes to lie on my feet.

AND that is why you now have THAT above. :high5: Orville is YOUR cat now and I think your hearts are entwined. SO SWEET. I am so happy for you, hun !!!!! AND for dear Orville. :happy3: I must say that I am quite relieved for ALL of us :lol3: that Orville did not disappear for a day or two. We would be bullets over that one. What a little champ, he is.