Maybe In Helping Cats, We Are Really Hurting Them?

[calicosrspecial]

I am very humbled by those incredibly nice words of yours, thank you. It is so nice to be part of a community that truly understands.

I don't understand ignorant people (like your neighbor), who treat feral cats with so much distain since it is our fault they are feral in the first place. Thank you for rescuing that little feline and giving her a second chance at life.

I am just very disappointed with my vet because I thought we were both on the same page. I will be visiting Inky on Friday. I doubt that her reaction to me will be as positive as your kitty's was to you. I think she views all humans as something to not be trusted.

You are welcome but really THANK YOU for caring for those cats and for Inky. The difference you are making in the quality of their lives is really positive and important.

I don't understand people like that either. But all we can do is our best and try to educate and help the situation. I am thankful every day for her in my life.

I know. The reactions of people (vets, rescues, etc) can be very different and disappointing. I have been there and all we can do is learn and try our best. I know how frustrating and heartbreaking it is.

Sadly, I don't think the reaction with Inky will be the same either and understandably so. Being caged with predators (dogs) is not an easy place to be for a cat. A feral's survival instinct tends to be caution and distrust of humans and other animals. In fact, I struggle with how much to socialize with ferals IF I can't find them a home (or don't think I can) since some humans can pose grave threats to ferals. It is so hard to find that balance and try to figure out what is the right way to do it. Is there really a right answer? I don't know. But all we can do is our best. And trying to give them a better life (even if it is only 30% or 50% or 70% better) is I guess the goal. We can't always succeed because of outside issues but if we do our best I think that is what matters.

I have gone through the issue with an "expert" (rescue, Humane Society) saying that the cat can only be an outside cat. Early on in my life I really fought that view. Later on I kind of understand that view. It is really more art than science. It is so hard emotionally. I could go on and on about the emotional battles I have struggled with about what is right for ferals. I honestly believe every cat is fundamentally a good cat that will respond to being loved BUT some cats need more time, attention, and the right situation. And whether it is fair to the existing or resident cats. I have at times thought about taking on situations and being warned by everyone not to and listening. And feeling the regret and guilt for not listening. BUT maybe they were right. It is just so hard because we just can't know the future. There is so much grey area, it is not black and white.

Everyone is giving great advice and support. Jcatbird brings up great points (as does everyone). We'll support you wherever you go. All my cats have been ferals. Some very feral. It really depends on your situation. If you have no cats in the house it is easier to bring in a very feral cat. If you have 4 cats in the house it becomes more of a challenge. If you decide (or can) TNR there are positives and negatives but it is the whole picture we will help you get through. We all have been where you are. It is really hard. But if we do our best then I think we can hold our head high and be proud. You really are a hero in what you are doing.

I will also add. Cats sense our emotions and the love you have for these cats IS felt by the cats. And knowing they are loved does makes their lives better.

 

[jefferd18]

~ It seems to me the veterinarian may have poor people skills, but I think he is worried about you being injured by a feral wild cat with unpredictable behavior . He may actually be putting your welfare before the cat - something we "cat crazy" folks don't always do ourselves .

You nailed it. He also is one of these people who doesn't have too much of an imagination when it comes to animals, which doesn't help matters.

Possibly, although he doesn't have to worry in that regard; I use to be fearless when I was a little kid when it came to picking up animals, now I exercise a little bit more prudence.

 

[jefferd18]

If you can manage to pay, it could make a difference. Also, you can offer to the rescue group to “allow” Inky to be feral at your home and avoid the risks of being near a parking lot. I doubt you will convince them that ferals of any age can become socialized lap cats but there is plenty of proof here on the site if you want to research it. If you can get Inky, everyone here would be willing to assist you in any way possible according to your desires for Inky. I have socialized many dozens of ferals. All prefer to stay in my sunroom now. They could go out but predators are present along with other risks here. They can also run the house. They have chosen where they enjoy staying. You are doing great things by helping the kitties. Please don’t let this make you feel like giving up. Every cat saved is a victory and you have spent so much time saving lives! You are a kitty guardian and a kitty hero. You do far more than most people ever consider doing.

Thank you Jcatbird

I will try, unfortunately these are the kind of people who rarely think outside of the box, they look at me like I have no cat knowledge whatsoever. That is what kind of bums me out when dealing with some rescue groups- they act like they know everything! Even if I live to be a hundred, I will always be student when it comes to animals, especially in regards to cats since they are so darn mysterious.

And thank YOU for stepping up and rescuing those little guys. It sounds like they have a pretty enviable life now. No cat chooses to spend their life outdoors, where they are subjected to brutal weather, diseases, injuries, and being chased by dogs. I like your sunroom alternative better. I especially enjoy the part where "they can also run the house", LOL, and I am sure they do.

No, I won't give up. I was there last night with a bag of food under my arm.

 

[jefferd18]

You are welcome but really THANK YOU for caring for those cats and for Inky. The difference you are making in the quality of their lives is really positive and important.

I don't understand people like that either. But all we can do is our best and try to educate and help the situation. I am thankful every day for her in my life.

I know. The reactions of people (vets, rescues, etc) can be very different and disappointing. I have been there and all we can do is learn and try our best. I know how frustrating and heartbreaking it is.

Sadly, I don't think the reaction with Inky will be the same either and understandably so. Being caged with predators (dogs) is not an easy place to be for a cat. A feral's survival instinct tends to be caution and distrust of humans and other animals. In fact, I struggle with how much to socialize with ferals IF I can't find them a home (or don't think I can) since some humans can pose grave threats to ferals. It is so hard to find that balance and try to figure out what is the right way to do it. Is there really a right answer? I don't know. But all we can do is our best. And trying to give them a better life (even if it is only 30% or 50% or 70% better) is I guess the goal. We can't always succeed because of outside issues but if we do our best I think that is what matters.

I have gone through the issue with an "expert" (rescue, Humane Society) saying that the cat can only be an outside cat. Early on in my life I really fought that view. Later on I kind of understand that view. It is really more art than science. It is so hard emotionally. I could go on and on about the emotional battles I have struggled with about what is right for ferals. I honestly believe every cat is fundamentally a good cat that will respond to being loved BUT some cats need more time, attention, and the right situation. And whether it is fair to the existing or resident cats. I have at times thought about taking on situations and being warned by everyone not to and listening. And feeling the regret and guilt for not listening. BUT maybe they were right. It is just so hard because we just can't know the future. There is so much grey area, it is not black and white.

Everyone is giving great advice and support. Jcatbird brings up great points (as does everyone). We'll support you wherever you go. All my cats have been ferals. Some very feral. It really depends on your situation. If you have no cats in the house it is easier to bring in a very feral cat. If you have 4 cats in the house it becomes more of a challenge. If you decide (or can) TNR there are positives and negatives but it is the whole picture we will help you get through. We all have been where you are. It is really hard. But if we do our best then I think we can hold our head high and be proud. You really are a hero in what you are doing.

I will also add. Cats sense our emotions and the love you have for these cats IS felt by the cats. And knowing they are loved does makes their lives better.

I am visiting Inky tomorrow, but I agree with you, I won't be seeing the same cat. I am pretty sure that Inky's mind has checked out. I just hope to God that he won't suggest euthanizing her, that's when I might be losing it with him.

Thank you, I am so glad that I found this site and all of you wonderful people.

 

[Jcatbird]

Hang tight. I know how “ experts” can have all the answers. Just be humble with them and ask for ,”a chance to save her.” Offer to sign a release, pay, anything they ask. As for “checking out”, she may be scared but if she isn’t sick, she’s still there. Cats are as tough as any creature can be. I have never known one to check out.

 

[Jcatbird]

You could contact a National Rescue group. If something is rotten there then they would be in a better position to help Inky.

 

[Furballsmom]

Cats are as tough as any creature can be. I have never known one to check out.

I completely agree. She's there, and absolutely the same cat. She needs you to figure out how to get her out of there.

 

[will2002]

I can not for the life of me understand the subject of this thread. Over the years my wife and I have worked with several different Rescue Shelters and Vets Offices and have never, ever come up on a situation such as this... To a person, everyone that we ever come into contact with wanted to get the cat, cats, or kittens in question out of the shelter or the vet's hospital, and into a "forever home" as quickly as possible. I can not imagine a human with a cats best interest in mind being any other way!

jefferd18… I don't see where you did ANYTHING wrong here! The only thing you are guilty of is trying to help out some very needy cats. There is certainly no crime in that.

I'm sorry that I don't have any advice or information that would be of help to you in this awful situation. All I can say is hang in there and do the best ya can. I'll be thinking about you and pulling for you...for whatever little bit of help that might be. God bless ya!

 

[catsknowme]

Prayers and vibes for a good visit with Inky today & a miraculous change of heart in the vet. Right now, the vet has all the power and authority and I hope that he gets the wisdom of Solomon to act in best interests of Inky and yourself. I pray that you get a good advocate to help you in this situation. It may not hurt to do a little name dropping such as Thecatsite and other good resources - I resorted to that tactic in a casual way when I spoke to Animal Control yesterday (mentioned TCS and also about Miracle Nipples) and got an excellent response, very cooperative and enthusiastic at the end. We appreciate your rapid feedback - your TCS family cares very much about Inky, your rescue efforts and all the other kitties.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am visiting Inky tomorrow, but I agree with you, I won't be seeing the same cat. I am pretty sure that Inky's mind has checked out. I just hope to God that he won't suggest euthanizing her, that's when I might be losing it with him.

Thank you, I am so glad that I found this site and all of you wonderful people.

Hopefully it is not too late but I use warm (but not always possible) chicken thigh meat to give to a cat (if the vet would allow it). Or really stinky cat treats. Anything to get the cat's attention on something positive (food). It is amazing how food like that can calm a very stressed feral.

 

[lavishsqualor]

I can not for the life of me understand the subject of this thread. Over the years my wife and I have worked with several different Rescue Shelters and Vets Offices and have never, ever come up on a situation such as this... To a person, everyone that we ever come into contact with wanted to get the cat, cats, or kittens in question out of the shelter or the vet's hospital, and into a "forever home" as quickly as possible. I can not imagine a human with a cats best interest in mind being any other way!

I'm right there with you! Something just absolutely doesn't not make sense here. This situation is completely and totally bizarre.

My partner is a circuit court judge so I asked him about all this. First, understand that what I'm about to say can't be construed as legal advice, not without knowing all the facts. That said, Jefferd18 (or anyone who knows) what state are you in? Secondly, when you took Inky in did you sign anything, something that might have legally surrendered him to the vet? Or have you ever signed anything in the past that might function as a "blanket surrender?" Thirdly, does the rescue have this vet on a retainer? If not, is the vet paid by the rescue? Has the rescue ever signed anything surrendering the animals brought to him?

Have you actually told the rescue exactly what's going on?

If neither you nor the rescue has ever signed any documents surrendering the animals you take to this vet then my partner said if you cant get flies with honey, then just be a true blue .

Go in and start out being as nice as possible but make it clear that you intend to take the cat with you THAT day. If they say no, then ask them what their legal basis is for denying your request. Understand that getting Inky back is going to forever destroy you relationship with this vet, but I think it's worth it. If they can't give you a credible legal reason then start threatening to sue. Tell them you're going to call the police, the news and anyone else who will listen.

My partner believes they will comply just to get rid of you. And if you want, you can offer to pay a "reasonable" amount for Inky's care while at the vet.

Contact me anytime. Good luck and GO GET THAT CAT!

 

[lavishsqualor]

Okay, so I've worn my poor partner down. If you'll PM me with your contact info I'll call you and we'll sort this out. I'll call your vet myself.

 

[jefferd18]

Okay, so I've worn my poor partner down. If you'll PM me with your contact info I'll call you and we'll sort this out. I'll call your vet myself.

Thank you, lavishsqualor. Unfortunately I live in the state of Missouri. I say unfortunately for the reason that it has to be one of the most backwards states in America as it pertains to animal rights. Welcome to the puppy-mill capital of the world! This is an agricultural state and it still views animals as property.

I took a butchering vet to court a few years ago, in fact there were five of us who took this joke to court. We were basically told that our animals (3 dogs, and my cat), weren't worth anything and that this state has never suspended a veterinarian's license. Even though this doctor had a bad reputation she was still allowed to practice. I left the courtroom with the conviction that there just doesn't seem to be justice for ones who truly don't have a voice.

 

[jefferd18]

Hopefully it is not too late but I use warm (but not always possible) chicken thigh meat to give to a cat (if the vet would allow it). Or really stinky cat treats. Anything to get the cat's attention on something positive (food). It is amazing how food like that can calm a very stressed feral.

I visited her today and was a little encouraged by the fact that she seemed to calm down when she heard my voice. At least she stop hissing and growling, which was a plus. I proceeded to talk to her in a calm voice and she started to close her eyes. So either she found my voice to be soothing or boring- one of the two She is suppose to get spayed on Monday. I will be visiting her after the surgery. Let me please ask you something- do you think that catnip would help?

 

[jefferd18]

Prayers and vibes for a good visit with Inky today & a miraculous change of heart in the vet. Right now, the vet has all the power and authority and I hope that he gets the wisdom of Solomon to act in best interests of Inky and yourself. I pray that you get a good advocate to help you in this situation. It may not hurt to do a little name dropping such as Thecatsite and other good resources - I resorted to that tactic in a casual way when I spoke to Animal Control yesterday (mentioned TCS and also about Miracle Nipples) and got an excellent response, very cooperative and enthusiastic at the end. We appreciate your rapid feedback - your TCS family cares very much about Inky, your rescue efforts and all the other kitties.

Thank you! That means a lot to me.

I visited her today and she seemed to be a little calmer. She was still understandably guarded, but at least she looked like her regained her mental capacity. Nobody can still make a move in her direction, but at least I was able to talk to her.

She will be spayed on Monday and I am allowed to visit her after the surgery. I am going to be bringing her catnip treats.

 

[jefferd18]

Hang tight. I know how “ experts” can have all the answers. Just be humble with them and ask for ,”a chance to save her.” Offer to sign a release, pay, anything they ask. As for “checking out”, she may be scared but if she isn’t sick, she’s still there. Cats are as tough as any creature can be. I have never known one to check out.

Thank you,Jcatbird,

I met with Inky today and my visit seemed to have a calming effect on her. I am allowed to visit her again on Monday, after she has been spayed.

I sure didn't see this one coming. I am pretty good at reading people but I sure misread him- at least when it came to feral cats. I know that vets go through four rigorous years of education and are considered the absolute end when it comes an animal's physical well-being. Where they quite often fail is when they try to get into an animal's head. That is when they realize that they are just as clueless as the rest of us, actually more so.

 

[Jcatbird]

Every human must base their knowledge of animals on what they learn as they go. One vet may have great instincts with cats, another with horses. Rescuers are the same. We learn about the whole process as we go. We learn about the animals and all the people we deal with. Just try to take things as calmly as you can and still watch out for Inky. Calm will work best with the vet, Inky and your own rattled nerves. I am so glad that you got to see her and found her able to be calmed by your presence. Just continue to do the best you can for her. If she is due to be spayed then maybe she will be moved or released. She does have to go through that before any release would be considered. Getting that done sounds promising. Please keep us posted.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I visited her today and was a little encouraged by the fact that she seemed to calm down when she heard my voice. At least she stop hissing and growling, which was a plus. I proceeded to talk to her in a calm voice and she started to close her eyes. So either she found my voice to be soothing or boring- one of the two She is suppose to get spayed on Monday. I will be visiting her after the surgery. Let me please ask you something- do you think that catnip would help?

AWESOME!!! Eye kisses!! YES!!! That really is fantastic!! A cat would NEVER close their eyes to a potential threat. That is such a great sign of trust (from her to you and from you to her - the trust works both ways and that is why it is such a positive).

Our emotions have a HUGE effect on how cats feel. So your calm confident demeanor must have helped her feel more secure.

It sounds like she is doing better. I LOVE that she is getting spayed. that is a really positive development.

I personally don't think catnip is necessary. After the surgery she is going to be drowsy. Just a friendly loving person should be great for her. We want her to be as calm and still as possible so she heals quickly. So I don't want her to get too excited at this point. A stinky non catnip treat though may be a nice treat for her though.

I have to say, THANK YOU for not giving up on her and for staying focused and trying to move forward. The progress you reported MADE MY DAY!! It is still a long road but the step of spaying is a good positive. Let's hope it goes as planned. One step at a time but I see light now.

Keep up the great work!!!

 

[zed xyzed]

I thought the same thing a little while ago. My inside cat snuck outside and for 2 months I set up a trap to try to catch him. In the process I caught a feral cat and kept him in the house for 2 months. All he did was hide under the bed in the spare room. Poor guy was so scared. I reached out to our local shelter and they thought he was worth saving. They had him for 6 months and over that period of time made sure to interact and try and socialize him. They made a little progress every week. Eventually a really kind family adopted him and they post updates on instagram. He is now the happiest boy and rubs up against his new owners. When he was in my house I was tempted to let him go. I am glad I didn't. He got all the medical attention he needed (almost all his teeth were pulled) and now is enjoying life off of the cruel streets. Because the cat came to you, I think that there is a chance to socialize her once the fear lessens. Thank you for caring for her.

Here is a link showing Murphy the boy who I trapped on my porch in his new forever home (Murphy is the black kitty) I can't tell you how happy it makes me knowing he is off the streets and learning to trust his new family

 

[fionasmom]

I am so glad to hear that things are moving, at least a little bit. Inky is definitely trusting you if she lowered her eyes. My GSD was a rescue from a high kill shelter in Missouri via the national GSD network that I work with. I am absolutely not going to Missouri-bash as some wonderful people came forward to get him out of the shelter and out to LA, but it was "stressful"...let's just leave it at that. I ended up flying there myself to pick him up, to make a long story short. It more or less fell under what lavishsqualor said in his very knowledgeable post about not being able to get flies with honey........