Liver Values Off The Charts In Spoon. Any Ideas What I'm Looking At Dealing With?

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #61

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
I'm saving up for a dental cleaning first of all! I have two very painful teeth myself, I can relate to pain.

I think Rue may have been part of the problem. The cat food dish is right outside my room on a piano bench. I used to have it in my room until we moved. We adopted Clyde, who can NOT have normal cat food. So I put it on a piano bench (he couldn't jump.) And set it outside my door for the cats. It worked great until wr adopted Rue. Rue never fit in, and attacked my other cats in terror. (Single cat household meets my slightly wild cats. My house was also four times larger than she's had. Very scary). She would attack cats at the food/water dishes since she lived in my room. My room connects to the bathroom which connects to the hallway with the litter box/water.

When Spoon wad young my other cat, a Tom named Lead, would pound her. He'd chase her around until she began fleeing into boxes/baskets where she learned she was safe. As a result she used to pound Beck to feel better. Beck became terrified of Spoon, but they came to an uneasy truce. Rue, on the other hand, didn't understand that you attack until the other cats learn to leave you alone, and then you just ignore them. She would attack on sight every time.


You see the problem? Spoon is Hugh strung, been pounded, timid, and her usual tatic of beating people until they leave her alone failed. Rue is around the food, water, and littetbox. Rue trained herself to listen to the jingle of cats collars to pound them.

After we rehomed Rue (I got to see her yesterday! She's terrified of me?) And I realized Spoon was sick I began watching. And do you know what I found? She avoids the basement where Rue was. She used to keep us company while we played video games. Now she didn't. She wouldn't go to the food dish, hated the water, and peed outside only.

Ten bucks says that's part of the reason she stopped eating. Her sore teeth + Rue + whatever is going on with her liver. We got her stomach working again with canned food. And she now sleeps in my room. Once her appetite came back she began eating solids again. But NOT the food dish solids. She only eats them if it's in a fish in her "safe space" aka my room.


I caught her drinking last night. She sniffed the room with the litter box. I saw her pee outside!! She's been sniffing over the food dish again. She stands in the hall outside my room and watches. She even came over when I opened a new bag of food. She's pretty much off canned and on solids again - she still gets canned to fatten her up, but it's not survival. She's learned that if she sits on a chair in the kitchen people will feed her.

And you know what? She's become a picky eater in a healthy way. Before it was being picky because she felt sick. Now she's being picky because she's a cat. My brother eats turkey sandwiches 3x a day (it's literally all he eats) and gives Blackie a piece as a treat. Spoon found if she sits on her chair he will feed her as well. She used to pig it down because hunger. Now she INISISTS he rips into tiny bits for her, and holds it while she eats. Sure, it could be her sore gums. But it looks more like an attitude....

She's following me around all the time which is SUPER annoying. Either love or food, she's not picky. (She's also a very dependant cat... whiny). She's getting all the love. She sleeps in my room all the time and eats from the dish on my floor. She acts like canned food is a treat instead of her only meal. Her voice came back!

I'm thinking she had something wrong with her liver - an infection, she's just getting old, whatever - and Rue happened. Rue pounded her until Spoon gave up. And then the teeth are a second unrelated problem that makes cold hard for her. The not eating made her liver worse until it was a Very Bad Thing. I'm still not sure this accounts for why het liver values are so HIGH, but it gives me hope. Maybe we can beat this yet!


And as for Rue... My brother's wife's cat died a month ago from old age. She had that cat and her sister since childhood. She was heartbroken. I'd been telling my brother for a year that I KNEW Rue belonged to them. No idea why, I just knew it. My brother said no. His wife loved Rue. Their cat passed, and the cat left behind wasn't doing well. I finally wore my brother down. They took Rue last week. Rue fits in perfectly. The apartment is smaller so she's not stressed. The wife is home all day so she gets lots of love. She's an inside cat which she prefers. Their older cat is ... Not happy, but adapting. Rue is spoiled rotten, no longer fighting with other cats. She was happy here, and I loved her, but she did NOT fit in. Turns out I was just keeping her safe for those two.



Long post, but Spoon just got done pigging out at the food dish and I'm feeling positive. :) She's also not pacing around anymore. She seems a lot more relaxed. Just needy. Now to make her fat again. Petting a cat and feeling their spine/ribs is gross.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
Livers don't just get infected. My theory remains that the teeth/gums and not eating caused the liver values rather than the other way around. Keep feeding Spoon wet meals because that's food you know she's eating. Because you already know there's mouth pain and possibly household stress, it's better to know that she's eating rather than to trust that she is. Weigh her weekly. If she's stable or gaining, then keep doing what you're doing until you can fix her mouth. It's probably not necessary to worry about the liver unless she starts showing appetite problems, vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, or continues to lose weight despite adequate nutrition.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #63

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
Yes, I still feed her up to a can of moist ola day if she will have it. She eats right beside where I spend a lot of time, so I keep an eye on it. I don't trust her to do it herself, though. If I haven't seen her eat in a while I pull out extra tuna and give it to her to be sure she's getting food/water.

I'm hoping that eating at least lowers the risk of cancer. I'm sure it's still something serious, but at least I have a small glimmer of hope now.

She has a second opinion vet appointment next week to see if it's her teeth. The vet says he has to see her before he will do dental work, but if we do go ahead and do dental work he will put the cost of the appointment towards the dental cost. I'm hoping to be able to pay for it. If not I'll at LEAST have a second opinion on whether or not it's her teeth. Her front teeth on the top did look pretty nasty. No blood, but inflamed. Worst case, the vet says if it's bad enough he may be able to send me with some pain killers to help until I can get her cleaned.

In my mind her chance of survival has gone from 0% to 40%. Even if it's not true, it at least is helping me cope with it better. I still expect to lose her soon, but the Outlook isn't so terrifying for some reason.


No signs of throwing up, luckily. She hasn't even had a hair all lately. I'm going to see if I can check her poo today.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
I think rather than worrying about cancer, you can read about stomatitis. You should set the expectation that some or all of her teeth may need to be extracted. You should also know that this will provide her so much more relief than painkillers. Even if she has all her teeth extracted (and if it is stomatitis, that may be the best course of treatment), she will be able to eat without pain and even eat dry food again. And it is entirely possible that once the mouth is dealt with, the liver values will fall back into range, and the weight will return when her body isn't always fighting something.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
Am I missing something? You tell me she's not symptomatic in any way except perhaps some disordered eating likely due to stresss and mouth pain. With supervised feedings and stress reduction, you've managed to see a great improvement in her attitude and energy levels. So while I definitely believe the mouth has to be dealt with, I don't understand the doom and gloom. Elevated liver values are usually a reflection of angry elsewhere and that angry can definitely be a raging case of inflammation in her mouth. The mouth is more worrying than her liver because if she stops eating again, than nothing else matters. Whereas a cat can go a very long time with elevated liver values and not have any other symptoms or complications.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #66

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
Am I missing something? You tell me she's not symptomatic in any way except perhaps some disordered eating likely due to stresss and mouth pain. With supervised feedings and stress reduction, you've managed to see a great improvement in her attitude and energy levels.
Sorry, it was a weird morning of mood swings! From what I can figure out liver problems usually mean death, especially that high of levels. It's like "With liver problems it's always one of 20 different things, and only 2 are non fatal." At least that's how it feels. I just got done with one cat dying, and my cockatiel is on her way out any day now. I got a bit overwhelmed with it all. (especially since I just discovered the two dozen eggs I set to hatch didn't make it.)

It seems so strange to me that my vet doesn't even think her teeth could possibly be related to her liver. They were pretty angry. The pain killers would be just to tide her over until I can get her in for a dental exam towards the middle of next month. I even called my vet and asked again later and he firmly said no that it's not the teeth. Which is why the second opinion. I trust this vet, and I love him, but I want to be sure with this kitty. Spoon has been through enough without tossing on unneeded suffering.

It's so weird to see her with her voice back, I have to say! She meows a LOT. I didn't realize her voice was cracky for some reason. She's always had a bit of a scratchy sound. Makes me wonder how long the problems have been going on.

For now at least she's being a little greedy piggy - and eating enough to be picky about her food tastes! I'm looking into a cat scale for weight. I'm SURE she's already packed on half a pound or so.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
Bathroom scale is sufficient. Weigh yourself. Weigh yourself plus cat. Subtract first number from the second. Cats weight can fluctuate a little each way daily. So rather than stress over the exactness, take weekly readings and make sure the trend is stable or rising.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
It seems so strange to me that my vet doesn't even think her teeth could possibly be related to her liver. They were pretty angry.
It could be how you phrased it to the vet. To be clear, the teeth weren't caused by the liver. Rather I suspect the elevated liver enzyme values are a reflection or "caused by" the teeth and not the other way around.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #70

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
Ugh, she's stopped eating again. :( She WANTS to, but won't. I had to move her vet appointment to next week. My paycheck didn't come in on time. I'm off to the store tomorrow to buy her more canned food to see if we can find a flavor she likes again.
 

Furballsmom

Cat Devotee
Veteran
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
39,468
Purraise
54,255
Location
Colorado US
I may have posted this previously, but just in case something might help;

18 Awesome Cat Feeding Tips By Thecatsite Staff Members

Also here is a compilation of things;

Try feeding in different locations - and utilize different heights. For example put a couple of books underneath the dish, next time use two thick phone books, or a small-ish box so the heights are varied....

Try sitting with her and scoop some food on your finger or a spoon and hopefully your kitty will lick it. Or gently tuck some food inside the cheek.

Try some raw egg yolk. Egg white must always be cooked, and some people cook the white and make a slurry of sorts by adding in the raw yolk.

Also you could try some Nutri-cal or similar product.

Try making these recipes - they're just as viable for an adult cat as for kittens;
Kitten-Rescue.com

These below can be used on their own or combined with food. Also, if you heat the food a little - stir it so there aren't any hot spots from the microwave.

Or you could heat some water, about a tablespoon, and add that to canned food. A small glass works to stir it all up.
  • Chicken, beef or ham flavored (pureed) baby food such as Gerber Stage 2 - make sure there is no garlic or onions in the ingredients
  • Tuna and/or the juice, a low mercury/low/no sodium brand is called SafeCatch
  • Salmon, mackerel
  • Sardines (make sure there are no bones)
  • boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings
  • canned kitten food any brand
  • Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet or store bought
  • Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)
  • Lickable cat treats or pouch treat 'gravy' poured over the food
  • kitten glop (recipes in website link above)
  • Bonito flakes
  • fortiflora
  • fish oil
  • green beans, asparagus mushed up, lettuce, applesauce, mashed chickpeas, black olives
  • whipped topping such as reddiwhip
  • dry pasta
  • goat milk, or no lactose cow milk
  • whole cooked eggs (the white must always be cooked) or raw egg yolk now and then
  • broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind
  • There are also commercial toppers, Applaws is a brand that can work well as a topper
  • Some good treats would be freeze dried Purebites, Orijen, Meowtinis, Meowables, Only Natural Pet, Primal
  • There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats
  • shredded cheddar cheese, string cheese
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,773
Purraise
25,354
If she's not a texture snob, you can throw a can of her food into the blender and whip it up smooth for her. If it is a pate with the jelly stuff on top, put that in too because that jelly stuff will help it blend real smooth like a milkshake. If you need it thicker, you can add gelatin. Gelatin is exceptional for joint and gut health.

If you need different foods, Krista gives high marks to Tiki Cat. Even when she's in the throws of dental pain or the worst of her pancreatitis last year, Tiki Cat was always just a little more appealing than she was miserable. I keep several cans in my cupboard for whenever she goes off her food.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #74

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
Thank you! That's fantastic for food. She's backslid a little bit and isn't eating again. She picks at the solids, then turns her nose up. She's also not eating canned again. It's back to the drawing board to figure out what she WILL eat. She was doing fine up until now. One of you said something like "she will eat until her teeth become too painful." Which I think has happened. Scrambling to adjust my finances to get her in quicker than I'd planned on.

The good news is - teeth aside - she doesn't seem to be in any pain. Clyde, before he passed, was in pain and it showed. Spoon is normal, just skinny.

Spoon DOES like the Fancy Feast tuna flavor. I don't think it's classic, but it's the one thing I can get her to eat pretty regularly. She turns her nose up at it less. It going to see if I can find more tuna flavored things. And make my blender stink by mashing everything. At this point I should buy a second one for pets.


I tried weighing her on my scale (weighing me, then me and her) and my scales won't pick up her weight. I tried it on two I own with no changes. I'm going to try again on a third scale I'm borrowing today to see if I can get some sort of reading. She can't be THAT light.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #76

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
Update: Spoon is a pig. A huge, greedy pig. I had a dental problem come up (cracked tooth that was painful, very painful crown) so I couldn't manage her for a day. In that time she went from being perky and awake to looking half dead. Once I was able to get up I bought her more food. She greedily ate an entire can (normally she eats half). She's now been sitting by the food dish ALL day meowing at me. So I give her a little more food... She porks it up. Ten minutes later, she's back by the food dish looking happy. So far she's eaten two cans today, and it's only 4pm. I have to give her about a tablespoon and a half at a time. Otherwise the other cats intimidate her and she leaves.

She's discovered she's hungry again. And is taking advantage of it. I've gone being MAYBE getting a tablespoon down her a day (if the stars align right) to her sitting in her "feeding spots" all the time purring for food. She will only eat the flakes, not the pate food, though. I guess it would be easier to get in. And she doesn't like it cold. She will, however, take a huge bite instead of nibbling at it.

She also follows us around for ALL the attention. Before she used to just sleep in her Spoon Box because she was timid. She doesn't even mind the pills. When she sees me holding it she braces herself. I stick it down easily (five seconds vs 2 minutes it took with Clyde!). She hops off her chair to lick her lips, then does a U-turn because that means food.

I feel like a Butler. I'm a slave to feeding Spoon. Who is stupidly happy.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #78

EveAndHerThieves

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
198
Purraise
347
So am I! I had a vet appointment for her teeth, but my money ended up being used for an overdue water bill I forgot about. :( Still going to get her in!

She's a greedy thing right now. And has no shame asking for all the food. I'm hoping that means maybe we can get her liver under control.
 
Top