Liver Values Off The Charts In Spoon. Any Ideas What I'm Looking At Dealing With?

[EveAndHerThieves]

So Clyde passed in Jan. Within two weeks we noticed Spoon losing weight. She's kind of a community cat who hangs around, and very timid. I took her into the vet and... it's not great. The two main values they check for her liver are off the charts. One is at least twice what it should be, the other is 50 percent higher than normal. My vet wants to do an ultrasound, which I CANNOT afford after Clyde. So he wants to start her on antibiotics for 30 days, retest, and see what's changed.

Guys, I'm heartbroken. Clyde just passed, my cockatiel is dying, my rabbits are sick, and I'm rehoming Rue Sunday. Losing another cat is horrible. My vet wouldn't be really clear on what kinds of things we're looking for just yet.

I can't bring myself to Google it in fear that I'll find out it's cancer and she'll be dead in two days. Has anyone had a cat that's been okay if they've had liver problems? And lived a long life? She's lost a LOT of weight, but is drinking well. I think she's eating, but since she's free fed I haven't been sure. I'm watching, though.

Spoon is only ten. Which is old, but not that old. She's my last connection to my very first cat ever. I'm steeling myself for the worst, but hoping that maybe - maybe - she has something she can beat.

 

[daftcat75]

I'm not a vet and can't offer a diagnois or a prognosis but...

Liver inflammation rarely happens by itself. It's usually a marker of injury and inflammation elsewhere. An ultrasound could help determine where that elsewhere might be. It could be IBS/IBD or it could also be acute trauma like a recent bout of vomiting or diarrhea or it could even be dental disease. The ultrasound may only be the beginning of the journey to a diagnosis. You don't say which levels were elevated but I'm assuming ALT which is nonspecific for inflammation anywhere else and GGT which could reflect an impairment of liver function. If the liver is busy dealing with its own secondary infection/inflammation, its other functions get affected.

I can't tell you what's causing the liver numbers to be elevated or what the outlook will be. I can tell you that it won't resolve on its own and while a course of antibiotics may temporarily bring those numbers back into range, it's probably not an infection alone that's causing the abnormal results. You'll need to treat that underlying thing whatever it is or the numbers will go back up again.

You need to find out if she's eating. Take away the food and see if she comes to you. If not, then you need to do whatever you can to restart her eating. That alone could certainly cause her liver numbers to go out of range.

You'll also need to adjust what she's eating. A species-appropriate meat-based, high moisture, low or no vegetable diet is best: meat, moisture, organs, and supplements. Everything else is optional and possibly irritating. Kibble is the worst. Do what you can to adjust her mix of wet and dry meals until she's eating primarily or only wet meals. You can crush up her dry and mix it into her wet if she needs encouragement to switch to wet meals. Any other treatment you try is going to be that much harder if the diet is broken. Consider her diet the best, cheapest, and safest medicine you can give her.

That said, there are scary things that could be overlooked without the more expensive diagnostics. But I recognize your financial limitations and diet is an excellent and absolutely vital place to start.

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

Ugh, it sounds like another kidney failure type situation. You manage the best you can, but she will only have another year or so. My vet won't even give me ideas on what could possibly be causing it. I guess like... If the liver starts acting up you're looking at a death sooner rather than later, or if there's SOME things they can cure. Like if liver problems are always fatal.

Her diet is already being switched as we speak, and she's being watched for food intake. She's still drinking a TON at least.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I'm not being of any real help - but have you at least asked your vet about a payment plan for the ultrasound? Or, perhaps a relative that would be willing to let you pay them back over time? While I realize that getting the ultrasound might likely lead to more expenses, at least you would be able to isolate/narrow down the possible cause(s) and discuss options with your vet about what a proposed plan of action might be. Maybe it isn't as bad as you are worried about, and treatment could be simpler than you fear.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

There is no way to know what is causing your cats high liver values. There certainly is an underlying cause. An ultrasound might show the problem, or it might show a cause for further testing. Could you talk to your vet about a payment plan and proceed with this choice. Testing here might save you money in the long run. If you found out what was wrong then you would have some choices about what to do.

This is a link about ultrasound for your cat.

Feline abdominal ultrasound: how to know what's going on inside your cat?

I agree that you need to determine for sure if your cat is eating. If not, you need to take some drastic measures to get some food in her. There are some probiotics that can be sprinkled as toppers on the food to entice her to eat.

My cat, Muffin, had high liver values for a long time. I tried treating him with Denamarin. It helped bring down the numbers, but he vomited a lot. I finally quit as he seemed to be in perfect health. It was years before my vet found a mass in his abdomen area. An x-ray revealed it was a tumor, probably on his liver. First option was to baby him, feed him whatever he would eat and let him live out whatever lifespan he had. Second do further testing which sometimes was inconclusive. Third one was to prepare ourselves to let him go then take him in to the vet to be put to sleep and operated on to see what the vet could find.
After some time to think about it, we decided to do the last thing. We loved him, kissed him, spoiled him for several days and then decided to let our vet explore. Our agreement was the vet would call if he thought there was anything he could do. If what he found was too far spread, he would just put him to sleep.
We got a call and the vet told us it was a tumor at the very tip of his liver. He said he could remove it and send it to be tested or we could let him go. The vet removed the tumor. It was cancer. We brought him home and he lived another year before the cancer returned. His quality of life was good, just seemed like a bad dream. When the cancer returned, we treated him with palliative care until his time came. All of this was expensive, but we were never sorry for giving him that last year.

 

[daftcat75]

The liver can heal itself and can actually suffer a lot of damage before it's too compromised. But the liver is very likely not the source of what's really going on but a reflection of insult, inflammation, or injury elsewhere. That could be anything from dental disease to kidney failure to lymphoma. Some outlooks are better than others. Dental disease certainly doesn't need to be fatal. But it can be if the cat stops eating. Unfortunately, a proper dental can be as expensive or more expensive than an ultrasound. Many cats live years with compromised kidneys. But the outlook for lymphoma can be not good. Kidney disease can be detected in blood and urine so if it was that, your vet would have said something when they noticed the liver values.

Has she also been vomiting or having diarrhea or is she otherwise seemingly healthy? If she hasn't been vomiting or having diarrhea, then you need to understand her eating to know if she's eating enough and still losing weight or losing weight because she's not eating enough. The rule of thumb I've heard is that if you can stabilize the weight loss or put weight back on, it's probably not cancer. So while food alone is not a diagnosis or a cure, if you can get her eating a mostly wet diet and do weekly weigh-ins (no more frequent than weekly for yours and the cat's sanity), you may be able to make some diagnosis less likely than others.

If you can't afford any further testing, I would recommend feeding her a quality wet food diet, multiple smaller meals per day of a calorie rich pate with the focus on stabilizing the weight loss or putting weight back on. Try this for a month. If she stops losing weight or she gains weight, you can go back and retest the blood. If she continues to lose weight, you may need to look at your financing options for the more expensive diagnositics.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Yes, our vet told us the liver does have ability to heal itself. You are getting some good advice here about feeding your cat. Sending you and your precious girl lots of love and prayers for healing.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Oh, hon, I'm so incredibly sorry to hear that you're having to deal with so much all at once


Not everyone will agree with me and that's just fine, but this is what I did when my boy's tests came back with elevated liver numbers. I'm not a vet, and I'm not saying the things I did are magic, but it made a difference. (I was totally on my own because I got NO support or guidance from my vet).

I got a faucet-end water filter, the idea being to decrease the load on his system overall.

I eliminated every food, --except one that he simply won't let go of, that has menadione in it (I understand that there's no specific information provided as to how much for how long is required/necessary to cause harm, but when I see that the Material Safety Data Sheet states that menadione causes liver damage and the reason it is considered GRAS {Generally Regarded As Safe} is because it was tested in poultry, that don't live nearly as long as felines, I'm not feeding it).

I started adding Milk Thistle powder, the cleanest (no additives) I could find.

Hopefully there's something in all the suggestions and thoughts you've received that will help you and your baby

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

but have you at least asked your vet about a payment plan for the ultrasound?

I did. Sadly my credit is... ah, shot. My mother took out credit in my name as a child and never paid it back. It's complicated.

I agree that you need to determine for sure if your cat is eating. If not, you need to take some drastic measures to get some food in her. There are some probiotics that can be sprinkled as toppers on the food to entice her to eat.

Now that I've been watching her, I don't think she's eating. If she is, it's not very often. That's very scary indeed! She still drinks milk (VERY rarely when she manages to get to it before I wash out the dish) and tuna readily, just not the basement food. I *think* I've seen her downstairs eating today, though.

My cat, Muffin, had high liver values for a long time.

The liver can heal itself and can actually suffer a lot of damage before it's too compromised.

I'm glad to know that there's a chance - however small - for her. I know some things when they start acting up are an automatic death sentence. Kind of like Leukemia in the olden days. Sure, you can beat it, but it's usually hard and fatal in the end anyway.

Has she also been vomiting or having diarrhea or is she otherwise seemingly healthy? If she hasn't been vomiting or having diarrhea, then you need to understand her eating to know if she's eating enough and still losing weight or losing weight because she's not eating enough. The rule of thumb I've heard is that if you can stabilize the weight loss or put weight back on, it's probably not cancer.

No vomit that I've seen! I don't see signs of any of my cats having diarrhea either. She very much prefers to go outside in the yard, so it's been tricky to find her poop. But I don't see it right off. I'll poke around more once the snow melts a bit tomorrow.

I'm crossing my fingers so hard that it's not cancer!

If you can't afford any further testing, I would recommend feeding her a quality wet food diet, multiple smaller meals per day of a calorie rich pate with the focus on stabilizing the weight loss or putting weight back on.

By chance do you know of a brand that would be good for her? I fed Clyde a prescription diet, as well as Blue and Science Diet. Spoon *loved* his canned cat food. Should I be looking at fiber, or fat or...? Luckily she's also a greedy demon so getting canned down her shouldn't be an issue.

I got a faucet-end water filter, the idea being to decrease the load on his system overall.

I eliminated every food, --except one that he simply won't let go of, that has menadione in it (I understand that there's no specific information provided as to how much for how long is required/necessary to cause harm, but when I see that the Material Safety Data Sheet states that menadione causes liver damage and the reason it is considered GRAS {Generally Regarded As Safe} is because it was tested in poultry, that don't live nearly as long as felines, I'm not feeding it).

Ohh, I know she'd like filtered water. She's a pampered thing. Skitterish as all heck, but greedy. She tries for HOURS to get into the little treat bags I have hanging around.

I'm going to admit something terrible. She's eating Friskies cat food. A while back I tried VERY HARD to get my cats to switch. They'd rather starve themselves than eat health food. Literally. The struggle was horrible. I tried mixing it, I tried forcing it, I tried putting it in water... No dice. They acted like it was the plague. I know, I know, I KNOW that it's horrible for them, but the stress of switching was just too much. After three weeks I gave up because they were all so unhappy. Luckily, it seems Spoon likes Clyde's cat food, and she LOVES soft food. Maybe I can get her alone to do the switch.



Rue is going to her new home tomorrow evening, I'm HOPING that will free up some stress in the basement so they will eat more often. Rue kind of scares all the other cats. Which is reasonable, considering they pounded her first. Maybe if we get rid of the demon in the basement she won't be so terrified of the food dish.

I'm also watching for water intake, which also seems to have gone down. If I have to I'll do the same thing that I did with Clyde. I'll restrict her movements to the basement, lock the other cats out, and see if the food/water goes down. My entire household of cats will hate me, but at least I'll know.

If she's not eating and drinking... I think her chances of survival have gone from 40 percent down to like 10 percent. (In my mind). Especially knowing that liver problems are usually a secondary problem.

the good news is, we found out she has inflamed gums. Well, not GOOD news, but we can get them taken care of. The vet doesn't think it's related to what's going on, but at least we know. Maybe I'll get lucky and she stopped eating because her mouth is sore?

*Sigh* Cats are hard! I've managed 20 years without any problems. Now I have three in less than two years.

 

[daftcat75]

Fancy Feast Classic pate (none of the other Fancy Feast lines) are actually very species-appropriate. They follow the meat, moisture, organs, and supplements recipe. Friskies seems to have that mixed up. Their formula is something like organs, organs, moisture, meat, rice, and supplements. The rice is probably there to sop up some of that soft stool that too much organ meats would produce.

Some foods I like, recipe-wise. What Krista likes is a whole other story:

Fancy Feast Classic
Tiki Cat
Pure Vita
Hound and Gatos
Rawz

Yeah, my list is very short. There's too much nonsense in cat food.

If she's not eating, it's more important that she is eating again. But once she's eating, pick a food she likes with a simple meat, moisture, organs, and supplements recipe. It should be high protein and low carb. No carbs if you can help it. Cats generally don't need fiber unless they develop motility issues.

A lot of things can happen below the gum line with cats. There's a painful disease where the teeth are being resorbed (basically eaten) back into the body from the roots. Swollen gums may be just the tip of the iceberg. That could absolutely make it painful for her to eat. The inflammation in her mouth could be the original injury and inflammation that the liver numbers are reflecting. Or it could be just a complication. I really hate speculating here because you could choose a treatment or set your expectations and it could be something totally different.

But whatever the problem is, without eating, she won't get anywhere on any treatment. So eating is job number one. Eating well would be the next task.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

First, try some of these places for assistance. That's what they are there for. It certainly won't hurt.

No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat's Life

Now, on to

I'm going to admit something terrible. She's eating Friskies cat food. A while back I tried VERY HARD to get my cats to switch.

I have "one of those cats," as well. She utterly refuses ANYTHING but Friskies, and kibbles, at that! And she will willingly go over 48 hours without eating when presented with anything else. I cave at that point, because I dragged her back from incipient fatty liver disease when she had her bout with pancreatitis. I just won't let her go more than 48 hours without eating. Wet food is always preferable to dry, but it is somewhat less critical in females than in males. At least, so long as she is good about drinking water. Hekitty sucks back water like a camel in August now that I moved her water bowl to the other end of the kitchen from her food bowl (their instinct tells them that "food near water = contamination). And a very wise person here once said, "The very best cat food is the one your cat will actually eat!" The finest cat food in the world does no good sitting in the dish. A whole lot of information about cats and their diets is out there, and most of it makes us feel guilty to some degree or another. While I agree that we should feed our cats the very best food that they will eat and that we can afford, I will also tell you that in my lifetime, I have had a good many cats. 3 of them died in their 20s, and two more were just short of that, and they were fed absolute JUNK because we didn't know any better back then! Cut yourself a break on that one.

 

[Furballsmom]

Luckily, it seems Spoon likes Clyde's cat food, and she LOVES soft food. Maybe I can get her alone to do the switch.

Should I be looking at fiber, or fat or...?

Calories, and fat/carbs, however, -->basically that she'll eat it.

No worries about the friskies - as mentioned, eating, whatever the food might be, is vital. Try a flat paper plate - for some reason this frequently can work to get a cat to eating again.

Tiny Tiger from chewy . com can be a good possibility to look into AND it's on sale right now, and also Merrick Backcountry pouch gravy might interest her, as might Natural Balance pouch gravy, if for nothing else to get her started eating again after her gums are treated. My boy loves the gravy of these last two but won't eat the morsels.

Ask your vet if the extra protein would be problematic, but cooked eggs might be good.

These recipes can help;
Kitten-Rescue.com

For water/liquid, try interesting things like bone broth (you can make your own, or purchase some - make sure it doesn't have any seasoning, onion or garlic, pet stores are beginning to carry it), or the juice from low sodium canned green beans.

18 Awesome Cat Feeding Tips By Thecatsite Staff Members

Especially knowing that liver problems are usually a secondary problem.

Sometimes, but most definitely not always.

I have an unopened jar of Milk Thistle by Herbsmith that I won't be using. I'd be more than happy to send it to you, just pm me your address if your vet is ok and you want it. As with L-Lysine, the jury might still be out as to whether it's effective compared to some other liver support, however, any support for the liver, since it is able to repair itself (within reason) would seem to me to be a good, or at the least harmless, thing.

All About Liver Disease in Dogs and Cats

Also, don't forget to utilize some music - classical harp music can really make a difference to a cat's stress levels. From @tarasgirl "Experts" say -- and I agree -- that cats (as well as humans) are calmed and feel better listening to Classical music. If you don't have a station locally, you can stream kusc.org anywhere in the world on your computer or smartphone".

And for you, try chamomile tea (with honey, not sugar), Holy Basil and even L-tryptophan.

Maybe you can take a break by stopping in at a butterfly pavilion if you have one near to you, or even pop in and look at this, for a little lightheartedness and beauty.

Bella Hummingbird

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

I have an unopened jar of Milk Thistle by Herbsmith that I won't be using. I'd be more than happy to send it to you, just pm me your address if your vet is ok and you want it. As with L-Lysine, the jury might still be out as to whether it's effective compared to some other liver support, however, any support for the liver, since it is able to repair itself (within reason) would seem to me to be a good, or at the least harmless, thing.

That's so sweet! I pick up her medication tomorrow morning. If he okays it I'll let you know. I have some L-Lysine I use for sinus problems with my cats. It's already included in their water dish daily. I can up the dose, though. It's a very minimal amount.


I got watching Spoon and found out that she's NOT eating, or drinking. So I began watching her like a hawk. From watching her I've noticed she's always on a chair upstairs that she sits on when I open cans. The cats sit there in hopes that it's tuna. And she cries at me when I go by. I put two and two together and whacked myself. She's hungry! So I opened a can of tuna and gave it to her. She shoved down 2/3rds of the can, and happily went to her Spoon Box to sleep. A few hours later she was back on the chair meowing at me. So I gave her more tuna. She shoved that down (liquid and all) and then happily went back to her box.

I wonder if it's possible that her teeth hurt, she stopped eating, and it got to her liver? I don't know that it's related, but at least I can get food down her. I'm buying her some canned cat food for her tonight to see if she'll eat that. If nothing else we need to pack on weight. I'm not going to put all my eggs in one basket and hope that's what's up, but at least I can tell myself it might not be horrible. And she's happy with food in her.

On the plus side, she's soaking up all the attention she's getting. She has no complaints about the free pets.

 

[Furballsmom]

I wonder if it's possible that her teeth hurt, she stopped eating, and it got to her liver?

It's possible - but in any case it really sounds like you're on the right track, good for you!! and extra loving on her is definitely a part of it

 

[daftcat75]

I wonder if it's possible that her teeth hurt, she stopped eating, and it got to her liver?

That's entirely possible. My Krista is going through this same thing right now but she hasn't seen the vet yet. She's got an appointment tomorrow morning. And then I get to argue with the Dr about her liver numbers and the prudence of sedating her for a dental exam. (My argument to her will go something like this, "The liver numbers are caused by the teeth. And while a hospitalization with IV fluids and antibiotics will improve the liver numbers, it doesn't fix the teeth. The numbers won't remain in range without extracting the problem teeth." We did this before.) My Krista is nibbling at Tiki Cat Ahi Tuna. She's not eating enough for this to be sustainable but at least she won't starve until she gets the dental she needs. After her blood test tomorrow, I can start her on pain meds to help her eat until her dental appointment.

Spoon's probably very hungry and her love of tuna is exceeding the pain in her mouth for the moment. I don't know how long this will last for either of our cats. You should start saving for a kitty dental exam and any possible extractions.

 

[Furballsmom]

Stay positive, hope for the best (while preparing for whatever) - that's the best way to get through these situations, and do try the music, as well as the tea

 

[Mamanyt1953]

And SHE'S EATING!

 

[EveAndHerThieves]

This is going to sound super stupid, but giving her better food isn't going to be a problem, right?

Like, if she fattens up again but it's unrelated to the liver problems. The fattening up isn't going to mess with figuring out with the diagnosis? I guess if she fattens up I don't want the doctor thinking it was the meds, and thinking it's problem X when it's problem Y.

I know that probably makes little sense. I did keep her cooped up today and she for sure didn't want solids. She's very active, at least. I haven't seen her poop though.

 

[Kflowers]

When a cat is older and delicate it's just as well to feed them all they will eat when they will it. sort of like the Victorians did. "Right now you feed good and can eat and keep it down, have some food. Tomorrow you might not feel like eating." In short I wouldn't worry about her weight right now.

I'm with Mannyt1953 SHE'S EATING!!! We celebrate without borrowing trouble.

 

[Furballsmom]

I think I was thinking that same thing when I mentioned checking with your vet about the eggs - they're protein, but I have no clue where the line is between changing liver (and kidney) values with food vs a food being so beneficial that it wouldn't matter, and I have no idea if food protein is even a problem, so...
do you happen to know/can find a cat nutritionist? I mean other than dr lisa pierson - she's still taking email consultations I think, but I would imagine there are others.

Plus if you could talk with a nutritionist even briefly, it would help in discussions with your vet.