Just Had A Vet Checkup, Need Some Advice.

[Boy_Narf]

Already checked the reviews, they are either "AMAZING", or "WORST FOOD EVER". haha. Can't really trust them. All I know is as my own diet, I like to feed my cats natural things, with minimal ingredients that I can pronounce.

I think it's finally time I go to a cats only vet. Seems like most vets that don't have dedicated staff for cats do a lot of guessing (or thinking back to their text books from 20 years prior). We have a cat only clinic in the city, it's about a 30 minute drive from our new house, but I think it's time to go to some folks who really know about cats. I've already emailed them asking their philosophy on raw diets. Will see what they reply with. I have a followup appointment scheduled for next week, so I might cancel that and go to the cat clinic for the followup instead, with all of my documentation. Perhaps I should invest in a larger carrier. Might make their journey to the doc a bit more relaxing.

 

[She's a witch]

Hey, thanks for the quick reply!

It's the ground bone/organ/meat from Carnivora (we rotate between beef, pork, and bison [elk no longer available]. They won't eat the poultry or fish anymore). I give them 1/6 of a puck in the morning, then for dinner they get another 1/6 plus a tsp of Almo fish (we rotate between 5 different flavors), and a sprinkle of the Nutripro. For treats they get Origin, or whatever dried (nothing added) morsels are new at the pet store (recently dried duck, boar, and minnows). They used to get chicken necks for a snack, but one of the cats decided she wouldn't eat them anymore, and the other cat would eat it an immediately puke it back up, so I have stopped with the necks.

Do you trust that the company follows the recommended meat/bone/organs ratio for cats?

 

[Kflowers]

If they like to be in the carrier together and you can lift it, good.

don't put the carrier on the front passenger seat. If the air bag deploys it will crush them.

 

[FelisCatus]

I go to a cat only vet in my city as well, all my previous ones did both dogs/cats, I see a stark difference. Every time I would be in the waiting room there used to be ~2 barking dogs and my one cat.... that did not make my cat happy and must have stressed her out further.

If it is a UTI though, you don’t want to delay too long...

 

[Boy_Narf]

No I don't think the producer takes ratios into consideration. I think they just chuck a dead animal into a grinder and meat pucks come out the other end. I'm a vegetarian so I don't like to think about it

Unfortunately these guys do not prefer each-other They might be more concerned about the trip than being close, but still don't want a huge fight in a small space you know? I have medium sized carriers that I bought for them when they were kittens (way to big back then). They fit one of the Siamese perfectly but the other two are probably a bit big.

This vet was surprisingly, not busy. Guess there might be a reason for that. I called yesterday for an appointment for today and she said we are WIDE OPEN, any time you want. Most other vets I've gone to are legitimately a zoo booking up weeks in advance. At this point I may be more concerned with their philosophy on raw diets. Just for once I would like someone not to tell me I'm killing my pets by feeding them real food. Would you prefer to feed your kids chicken nuggets or chicken breast for dinner?

I can't thank you guys enough for all the help you have provided. I went from being terrified that my can't won't make it a week, to using my head and properly assessing the situation. I did appreciate the fish comment as well. Did some quick research and it seems the consensus is that fish should be a once in a while treat. Good to know! No fish tonight, sorry guys

 

[Boy_Narf]

P.S. he said there was an indication of early stages of a UTI, but nothing serious at this time. I've posted on another forum and it seems a vet tech has replied to me. He's been asking for a bunch of the test readings. So I'll report back with what he says.

And yes second opinion is my first priority!

 

[Kflowers]

I prefer and always have preferred separate carriers if for no other reason two pacing cats are too heavy. I put them in the back seat and slip one seat belt through each carrier handle to keep them from hitting the floor.

Some where around here is a thread on whether a hard carrier or a soft one is better. I find the soft ones easier to carry, but I feel safer with the hard carrier in case another patient gets a little too excited. Since you are going to be going to a cat only vet that shouldn't be a problem. So I'm not advising on that, just saying if you want to read it the thread is here. put best cat carriers in the search. Here's one of them.

I'm Looking For A Good Carrier For My Cat.

Can you imagine how I could have gone on if you'd actually asked about carriers?

 

[Boy_Narf]

HAHA thanks for the link! Seriously you guys are the friendliest more caring forum I've been part of. Really appreciate it.

I'm not too worried about carrier style was just planning on getting a bigger one. I tried taking all three to the vet at once before and it was chaos. The tech opened the door and there was a poof of hair that came out haha. I was amused, they were not. I can probably get away with two slightly larger carriers. I always take Chai on her own. That way she get a bit of a break from the bullies

I'm thinking if I asked about litter boxes the conversation would be even longer But we are all good on that front.

I just heard back from the vet tech guy. He said one of the readings is low, one is high, and the third is normal. He thinks it's pretty much all to do with diet and that nothing is wrong. He also said the recommendation for dry food was a poor one. I'll be calling the cat vet tomorrow anyway just to be sure, but I can stop worrying now at least.

 

[Kflowers]

yay for the cat vet!!!
Poo for not wanting a litter box discussion... no, just finished reading several...

YAY for the cat only vet!

 

[FelisCatus]

I hope everything turns out great, please keep us updated!

 

[LTS3]

Raw fed cats often have elevated BUN and Crea levels which is totally normal. The blood test for those levels were based on cats eating commercial dry food since that's what has been available for years. Raw food hasn't been popular until the past decade or so. Since raw diets have a higher protein content that commercial dry, you're going to see higher BUN and crea levels. That doesn't mean a cat definitely has kidney issues or that a prescription food has to be fed.

Looking for the links with info about elevated BUN/crea in raw fed cats

 

[Azazel]

It sounds like your cat isn’t getting complete meals with the nutrients he needs. The powder you linked to is not a complete supplement powder that has all of the nutrients a cat needs, it’s just an add-on. Also, Almo isn’t a complete meal, it’s a treat. You need to make sure your cat is eating complete meals. If you are feeding home made raw that means you need to use a powder like ez complete or alnutrition to make it a complete meal. If feeding canned, you need to feed one that is complete. Your cat is likely facing malnutrition.

 

[Azazel]

I don't think the vet is saying that. I think the vet is saying protein levels should be lowered in cats who are showing signs of kidney issues, as high levels of protein are harder on the kidneys.

And, yes most all cats need more water - especially those who are showing some level of kidney issues. The vet was wrong not to at least mention that both Royal Canin SO and Hill's C/D have canned food as well as dry. Purina Pro does as well.

Protein levels don’t necessarily need to be reduced in cats with kidney disease.

 

[lisahe]

It sounds like your cat isn’t getting complete meals with the nutrients he needs. The powder you linked to is not a complete supplement powder that has all of the nutrients a cat needs, it’s just an add-on. Also, Almo isn’t a complete meal, it’s a treat. You need to make sure your cat is eating complete meals. If you are feeding home made raw that means you need to use a powder like ez complete or alnutrition to make it a complete meal. If feeding canned, you need to feed one that is complete. Your cat is likely facing malnutrition.

I had wondered about this, too, and hadn't quite been able to sort through what's what in the cats' diet.

B Boy_Narf , what, exactly, is the raw food/meat that you're feeding? I didn't quite understand, is it complete, based on the prey model? If that's what they claim, then they absolutely should be following the ratio that She's a witch mentioned. (In any case, from what you say, it doesn't sound like it's a complete food because of supplements, which is what raised the question for me... and probably Azazel, too.)

And I'm glad you're taking the cats to a cat vet! We take our two to a cats-only vet and it's so much better than the all-animal clinic we took our previous cats to. It's especially good for cats like Siamese (we have two mixes) because some breeds (like Siamese!) have specific health issues that often pop up: digestive problems and tooth problems. (At least those are the two we've already run across with ours!)

 

[Spka]

Hello Everyone!

So I have three wonderful kitties. A domestic short-hair, and two Siamese mixes. Today we are talking about the domestic short-hair named Chai. We recently had an outside of litter box incident which of course had me worried (about the cant, not the floor hah). I will admit we haven't been the best with getting the cats their yearly checkups, and it's been about 4 years (last time there was an incident) since they have been there. I know, I know, they will be getting their checkups on a regular basis now that we have moved and are settled.

When we adopted Chai she was getting treated for a UTI. The first time she had an accident (about 4 years later), it had come back. Of course I assumed this was the same and brought her into the vet this morning. The vet confirmed that there is a very mild infection starting and got her on some antibiotics. The vet asked what I feed them and I replied with three different types of red meat, 5 different types of canned fish (just fish nothing else), and Nutripro powder (They only get meat in the AM, and for dinner they get meat, a tsp of fish, and a sprinkle of the powder). After hearing I have them on raw he suggested we do a blood test to make sure everything is okay (they are 8 next month). The test came back with a few high levels, but he said that would be due to the infection she is fighting. He was more worried about the CREA levels. She is currently sitting at 2.2, and he said we really need to get that down. He then proceeded to recommend a "prescription kidney focused" cat food from Hills. He said that raw food has too much protein in it and will cause serious kidney issues if I don't switch her to dry food. This was quite a shock to me as I figured I was feeding them good quality stuff! I then did some research and haven't found much linking raw food to kidney disease. What I found was quite the opposite. That although raw food has higher levels of protein than most kibbles, the higher liquid content helps their bodies process it more effectively.

This isn't the first time a vet has tried to sell me their "prescription food", but it is the first time a vet has told me it's doing my cat harm.

If anyone has any advise I would really appreciate it. He rambled off a bunch of nutrients that cats need and it looks like the Nutripro has it covered. Is there anything I should be adding, or removing from the diet to help get the CREA levels lower?

Thanks a bunch!

P.S. I've attached a pic if anyone is interested

Royal canin food is a really good quality. Try to look for "kidney disease" food. It's dry food.

 

[kittyluv387]

Ok...are you feeding your cat complete foods? That’s the first order of business. And second of all, cats who eat a species appropriate diet which has a lot of protein will naturally have higher creatinine levels because the creatinine standard was created by taking values from cats who have been eating inferior dry foods. I’m sorry but your vet does not know jack about feline nutrition. The cat specialist will be better.

Catinfo.org - Please check out the feline nutrition and kidney sections. This website was created by a veterinarian.

 

[Boy_Narf]

Hello again!

So I just called three cat only vets and another everything vet with 4.9/5 starts on google. All 4 basically said our vets do not recommend raw diets. The cat only clinics would be far better IMO, but I'm really tired of people telling me I'm killing my pets with a raw diet. I'll have to keep looking.

Or is it a better idea to take them to a good vet, and when they ask about food politely change the subject? What do you raw feeders do?

 

[Boy_Narf]

Oh and what the heck is up with these dental cleaning quotes??? I've had quotes from 400 - 1000. WOW!

 

[FelisCatus]

Hello again!

So I just called three cat only vets and another everything vet with 4.9/5 starts on google. All 4 basically said our vets do not recommend raw diets. The cat only clinics would be far better IMO, but I'm really tired of people telling me I'm killing my pets with a raw diet. I'll have to keep looking.

Or is it a better idea to take them to a good vet, and when they ask about food politely change the subject? What do you raw feeders do?

Couple of things to note, vets have to follow certain guidelines whether they believe them or not. When I talked to my cats oncologist about using CBD oil they said they were not allowed to talk about it since their overseeing organization (OVC here in Ontario Canada) has it as labelled as not for vet use. Even though marijuana is legal now in Canada.
Meanwhile if I were to drive to New York or Michigan the tone would be different.

As for the dental price range I had replied to someone not that long ago explaining it ranges due to various factors:

-low cost vet for low income earners
-location of the clinic due to rent/property tax
-vet clinic in the city versus out in the boonies
-age of cat where bloodwork is required will add another $150-200 CAD to the cost.

 

[Boy_Narf]

Guess it's like vegans right? They probably encounter docs telling them their diet is flawed all the time. I found a single holistic vet in town but the reviews are not great. Lots of misdiagnoses, and high prices.

Think I might stick to the vet I just went to for the dental cleanings until I can find someone else. They are way in the boonies as you called it, so the rent comment makes sense. He was one of the nicer vets I've been too, and he was very polite to Chai. He was even talking to her to get her calmed down. Most other vets I've been to it goes something like "eww a cat, um, what is the problem? yup here are some drugs bye".

Seems to me like my pet store might be the best spot for nutrition advise. I've actually been in there for over an hour chatting food and nutrition before. They really know their stuff! Most of their pets are on raw and they love the diet.