Just Had A Vet Checkup, Need Some Advice.

Boy_Narf

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Hello Everyone!

So I have three wonderful kitties. A domestic short-hair, and two Siamese mixes. Today we are talking about the domestic short-hair named Chai. We recently had an outside of litter box incident which of course had me worried (about the cant, not the floor hah). I will admit we haven't been the best with getting the cats their yearly checkups, and it's been about 4 years (last time there was an incident) since they have been there. I know, I know, they will be getting their checkups on a regular basis now that we have moved and are settled.

When we adopted Chai she was getting treated for a UTI. The first time she had an accident (about 4 years later), it had come back. Of course I assumed this was the same and brought her into the vet this morning. The vet confirmed that there is a very mild infection starting and got her on some antibiotics. The vet asked what I feed them and I replied with three different types of red meat, 5 different types of canned fish (just fish nothing else), and Nutripro powder (They only get meat in the AM, and for dinner they get meat, a tsp of fish, and a sprinkle of the powder). After hearing I have them on raw he suggested we do a blood test to make sure everything is okay (they are 8 next month). The test came back with a few high levels, but he said that would be due to the infection she is fighting. He was more worried about the CREA levels. She is currently sitting at 2.2, and he said we really need to get that down. He then proceeded to recommend a "prescription kidney focused" cat food from Hills. He said that raw food has too much protein in it and will cause serious kidney issues if I don't switch her to dry food. This was quite a shock to me as I figured I was feeding them good quality stuff! I then did some research and haven't found much linking raw food to kidney disease. What I found was quite the opposite. That although raw food has higher levels of protein than most kibbles, the higher liquid content helps their bodies process it more effectively.

This isn't the first time a vet has tried to sell me their "prescription food", but it is the first time a vet has told me it's doing my cat harm.

If anyone has any advise I would really appreciate it. He rambled off a bunch of nutrients that cats need and it looks like the Nutripro has it covered. Is there anything I should be adding, or removing from the diet to help get the CREA levels lower?

Thanks a bunch!

P.S. I've attached a pic if anyone is interested :)
 

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She's a witch

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Hi, do you follow cat specific recipes or just giving them chunks of muscle or other kind of meat? Do they get bones/shells as well?
 
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Boy_Narf

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Hey, thanks for the quick reply!

It's the ground bone/organ/meat from Carnivora (we rotate between beef, pork, and bison [elk no longer available]. They won't eat the poultry or fish anymore). I give them 1/6 of a puck in the morning, then for dinner they get another 1/6 plus a tsp of Almo fish (we rotate between 5 different flavors), and a sprinkle of the Nutripro. For treats they get Origin, or whatever dried (nothing added) morsels are new at the pet store (recently dried duck, boar, and minnows). They used to get chicken necks for a snack, but one of the cats decided she wouldn't eat them anymore, and the other cat would eat it an immediately puke it back up, so I have stopped with the necks.
 

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Hi. She's a real cutie!!

I really can't help with the raw food vs. other foods for your issue with CREA level. But, I do think the vet is looking at a long term solution, as typically cats that have kidney disease are placed on diets with lower protein amounts.

I have heard it is common for a vet to do a thorough urinalysis, specifically including an SG test that helps them determine how well the kidneys are functioning. Was this test done?
 
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Boy_Narf

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Hey!

I'm not really sure if an SG was done. They did blood work and a urine analysis. What results would I expect from an SG test?
 

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Not trying to sound malicious or anything... but there are cases where doctors/vets are paid to push a certain product/medication wether it’s good for the patient or not.

If the funds are available and you are questioning this vets suggestion (which it sounds like you already are)... I would highly recommend a second opinion from another vet. You are allowed to ask for the notes/bloodtest results from the first vets clinics and show it to another for their opinion. They might still want to retest but that’s up to you.

I hope they get better soon!
 
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Boy_Narf

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Oh sheesh, you asked if they did a urinalysis. Sorry long day. Yes they did but nothing stood out. He said there were trace levels or redblood cells, and it was a bit cloudy, giving him the impression she is at the early stages of a URI. I did not get the results from that test, he had them on a tiny piece of paper and kept them.
 

FelisCatus

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Oh sheesh, you asked if they did a urinalysis. Sorry long day. Yes they did but nothing stood out. He said there were trace levels or redblood cells, and it was a bit cloudy, giving him the impression she is at the early stages of a URI. I did not get the results from that test, he had them on a tiny piece of paper and kept them.
Send the clinic an email/call and they should have the results for you in no time :).
 
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Boy_Narf

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Yes indeed I've experienced that before.

"Oh you are on raw food? That's horrible! You should get this Royal Canin it's the best in the world!!!".

All these of these little monsters need their teeth cleaned, so I don't really have the funds for a second opinion at this time.

What is curious though, is that the food he recommended for me only has 5% less protein than the raw food I am currently feeding them. So unless the fish, or Nutripro is pushing that way over the edge I just don't see a huge different in swapping. Of course I could put her on the stuff for a week until the followup, but I would have to pay to get bloodwork done again to compare the two.

Yes the long term solution is what is happening I think. He saw the levels are higher, and they look at lower protein solutions. Again, the 5% drop, not sure how much of a different it will make especially since there is no hydration in the dry food.

I do work in healthcare however, so perhaps I can reach out to a few of my clients (nurses/physicians) and see if they have any advice.
 
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Boy_Narf

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Good call! they are emailing them to me as we speak!
 

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Is there a way you can determine how much more protein is being added by the fish and Nutripro? Btw, the urinary care foods also come in wet form too.
 
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Boy_Narf

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I've got the urinalysis. Anything I should be looking for? There is not chart, literally just a page with numbers on it.

Protein levels in the fish and powder:

Fish = Crude protein min: 17%
Powder = Crude protein min: 25%
Raw = Crude protein min: 25%

So... is that a lot? I'm not sure how it's measured.
 

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I'm sorry but your vet really doesn't sound like he knows much about cats. Kidney disease isn't caused by protein. Switching to a dry diet will do more harm than good and will contribute more to kidney disease then a raw diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. They need high animal protein their diet to thrive. They also need a diet high in moisture. I would get a new vet.

It's really hard for us to interpret the bloodwork without having the background or knowledge on how to interpret lab tests. Best thing you can do is find a vet who is informed about raw diets to interpret it. Also keep in mind that the baselines that most conventional vets use to interpret bloodwork and urinalysis is based on cats fed dry diets. So, your cat on a species-appropriate diet will be a little different.

I would cut down on feeding fish and make sure the meals you are feeding are complete in terms of nutrients.
 

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I've got the urinalysis. Anything I should be looking for? There is not chart, literally just a page with numbers on it.

Protein levels in the fish and powder:

Fish = Crude protein min: 17%
Powder = Crude protein min: 25%
Raw = Crude protein min: 25%

So... is that a lot? I'm not sure how it's measured.
What is the powder you're using?
Crude protein levels don't really tell us much. You need to look at nutrient levels on a dry matter basis.

Fish is okay once in a while, but shouldn't be fed every day. It's high in metals which is not so good for cats.
 
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Boy_Narf

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Oddly enough he has a cat! Said he hates how processed the dry cat food is, but that it's the best thing to feed them. Very curious indeed. Almost feel like I should be seeking out a holistic vet. I just moved and there are three vets near me. Two have horrible reviews, and this clinic has 5/5 on nearly 100 reviews. Figured he was a decent choice. I loved the vet I was going to before, but from our new house it's about an hour drive each way in traffic. Just to far for the kitties. They lose their mind in the car, and due to the little boy previously having an anal gland issue, he usually uses the kennel as a little box multiple times before arriving. I'll have to do some more shopping around.
 

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Oddly enough he has a cat! Said he hates how processed the dry cat food is, but that it's the best thing to feed them. Very curious indeed. Almost feel like I should be seeking out a holistic vet. I just moved and there are three vets near me. Two have horrible reviews, and this clinic has 5/5 on nearly 100 reviews. Figured he was a decent choice. I loved the vet I was going to before, but from our new house it's about an hour drive each way in traffic. Just to far for the kitties. They lose their mind in the car, and due to the little boy previously having an anal gland issue, he usually uses the kennel as a little box multiple times before arriving. I'll have to do some more shopping around.
Yeah... I know many people who love cats but don't understand them at all. Unfortunately this is also true of many vets.
 
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Boy_Narf

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Ah I had it spelled wrong here is the powder:

Cats | Health Nuggets for Cats

I was not aware of the issue with fish. They get about a tsp a day. My boy had an anal gland issue as I mention previously, and it was going to cost more than my car to get it removed. I did some research and settled on adding a tsp of fish a day and it cleared right up! Hasn't had a rupture in 3 years!

Not sure I can get the protein amounts. All of them list crude protein, even on the sites. Uh... the canned food is by Almo Nature. I migrated to this product as it has nothing in except fish and water. Perhaps I should only feed it as a once in a while treat.
 

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Kidney disease isn't caused by protein.
I don't think the vet is saying that. I think the vet is saying protein levels should be lowered in cats who are showing signs of kidney issues, as high levels of protein are harder on the kidneys.

And, yes most all cats need more water - especially those who are showing some level of kidney issues. The vet was wrong not to at least mention that both Royal Canin SO and Hill's C/D have canned food as well as dry. Purina Pro does as well.
 
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