Just Had A Vet Checkup, Need Some Advice.

[mrsgreenjeens]

Hi there. I'm going to go back to the original post here and say that my Callie, who was raw fed for a couple of years, probably from age 12 to age 14, DID get kidney disease while on raw. She was fed kibble, however, for the first 10 years of her life , until I finally wised up and learned about cat nutrition. Anyway, she continued eating raw for awhile after diagnosis, with our Vet's blessing, however, instead of using bone for the calcium source, we switched over to egg shell, thinking it would have less potassium in it. We used Alnutrin with eggshell powder to supplement the meats.

After awhile she did what most kidney cats do and started getting really picky about her food, and started completely refusing all raw, so eventually we only fed her canned food with lots of filtered water added.

Back to the kidney issue, I was convinced that the kibble was the cause, because she was our third cat to be diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. However, now we have another one who has just tested slightly high on the SDMA test, and he only eats either raw or good quality canned with only filtered water to drink and filtered water added to his food.

Since no one has provided this link yet, I'm going to. It's all about kidney disease, just in case. This is my "go to" for anything kidney related. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat

I'm truly hoping Chai does NOT have kidney issues. Perhaps she was slightly dehydrated the day the bloodwork was drawn. That can cause higher than normal creatinine. So can a kidney infection. OR, if she ate prior to the Vet visit, that could even do it. Let's just hope it was an anomaly.

 

[Boy_Narf]

Hey, thanks! there is a mountain of info in there. I will have to sit down for a few hours tonight to go through it. She ate around 0900, and the appointment was at 1000. They said she had no urine available, so they were unable to take a sample. They called me to pick her up at 1245. All of the test were done in the window. Not sure if that would have been too soon to do the test. She has a followup appointment for a teeth cleaning and her shots next Wednesday. Perhaps I'll get another blood test done and see how it compares.

 

[kittyluv387]

Hi there. I'm going to go back to the original post here and say that my Callie, who was raw fed for a couple of years, probably from age 12 to age 14, DID get kidney disease while on raw. She was fed kibble, however, for the first 10 years of her life , until I finally wised up and learned about cat nutrition. Anyway, she continued eating raw for awhile after diagnosis, with our Vet's blessing, however, instead of using bone for the calcium source, we switched over to egg shell, thinking it would have less potassium in it. We used Alnutrin with eggshell powder to supplement the meats.

After awhile she did what most kidney cats do and started getting really picky about her food, and started completely refusing all raw, so eventually we only fed her canned food with lots of filtered water added.

Back to the kidney issue, I was convinced that the kibble was the cause, because she was our third cat to be diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. However, now we have another one who has just tested slightly high on the SDMA test, and he only eats either raw or good quality canned with only filtered water to drink and filtered water added to his food.

Since no one has provided this link yet, I'm going to. It's all about kidney disease, just in case. This is my "go to" for anything kidney related. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat

I'm truly hoping Chai does NOT have kidney issues. Perhaps she was slightly dehydrated the day the bloodwork was drawn. That can cause higher than normal creatinine. So can a kidney infection. OR, if she ate prior to the Vet visit, that could even do it. Let's just hope it was an anomaly.

A cat eating a high quality protein diet can definitely have slightly higher than normal values in SDMA and Creatinine. Not something to necessarily worry about but good to keep an eye on. I put my cat's kidney values in an excel spreadsheet to keep track of it.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

A cat eating a high quality protein diet can definitely have slightly higher than normal values in SDMA and Creatinine. Not something to necessarily worry about but good to keep an eye on. I put my cat's kidney values in an excel spreadsheet to keep track of it.

Yes, values will typically be on the high end of normal on raw. Unfortunately, my guy's SDMA just went one digit over that . He'll be tested again in six months to see if it's holding steady or not. This particular cat actually eats MORE canned than raw. He used to LOVE raw, but I guess he got tired of it because now he pretty much tucks tail and runs when I serve it. So now he only likes freeze dried Feline Naturals as treats. But I make sure he gets plenty of water in his meals to make up for that. My other cat is quite the opposite...his main diet is raw. Hopefully I'll at least have one healthy cat

 

[kittyluv387]

Yes, values will typically be on the high end of normal on raw. Unfortunately, my guy's SDMA just went one digit over that . He'll be tested again in six months to see if it's holding steady or not. This particular cat actually eats MORE canned than raw. He used to LOVE raw, but I guess he got tired of it because now he pretty much tucks tail and runs when I serve it. So now he only likes freeze dried Feline Naturals as treats. But I make sure he gets plenty of water in his meals to make up for that. My other cat is quite the opposite...his main diet is raw. Hopefully I'll at least have one healthy cat

Eh Dr. Pierson wasn't worried about my cat being 1 unit over the max for SDMA (this went down to normal range). And my cat is always a little over the max in creatinine. Dr. P said the ckd is much too overdiagnosed.

 

[lisahe]

Eh Dr. Pierson wasn't worried about my cat being 1 unit over the max for SDMA (this went down to normal range). And my cat is always a little over the max in creatinine. Dr. P said the ckd is much too overdiagnosed.

This is very interesting to hear from Dr. P.! Our previous cat had kidney numbers that were just a bit high and the vet wanted to put her on kidney food. Which I refused. It was shortly thereafter that I started feeding her Rad Cat, which the vet had specifically told me not to do. Our current cats-only vet isn't a huge fan of raw food, either, but I think lots of vets get nervous about it after they've seen problems with improper feeding. She knows we do it carefully and that we only feed commercial raw, much of which is HPP treated, but there's still a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" thing going.

B Boy_Narf , were you able to get through to Carnivora? I'm very curious to hear what they say!

 

[kittyluv387]

This is very interesting to hear from Dr. P.! Our previous cat had kidney numbers that were just a bit high and the vet wanted to put her on kidney food. Which I refused. It was shortly thereafter that I started feeding her Rad Cat, which the vet had specifically told me not to do. Our current cats-only vet isn't a huge fan of raw food, either, but I think lots of vets get nervous about it after they've seen problems with improper feeding. She knows we do it carefully and that we only feed commercial raw, much of which is HPP treated, but there's still a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" thing going.

B Boy_Narf , were you able to get through to Carnivora? I'm very curious to hear what they say!

I always have to polietly steer the convo away from cat food with my vet. Since my boy's numbers are elevated they're always telling me to put him on renal food. At least they're not recommending Iams dry food like my first vet though. I'm dreading the next visit because I'll be making my own food by that time. I think I better go prepared with my recipe (chicken/rabbit from catinfo.org) and also the alnutrin package (for turkey only) lol.

 

[Azazel]

This is very interesting to hear from Dr. P.! Our previous cat had kidney numbers that were just a bit high and the vet wanted to put her on kidney food. Which I refused. It was shortly thereafter that I started feeding her Rad Cat, which the vet had specifically told me not to do. Our current cats-only vet isn't a huge fan of raw food, either, but I think lots of vets get nervous about it after they've seen problems with improper feeding. She knows we do it carefully and that we only feed commercial raw, much of which is HPP treated, but there's still a sort of "don't ask, don't tell" thing going.

B Boy_Narf , were you able to get through to Carnivora? I'm very curious to hear what they say!

I worry so much about those kidney cats who were thriving on Rad Cat. It really was an excellent food for many cats.

 

[Tuckamukk3]

I found the following article at feline-nutrition.org which may be helpful:

How Raw Meat Diets Affect Blood Test Results

Also, I agree with another commenter about cutting back the fish in their diet. Cats in the wild don't eat fish, and can get various health problems from eating fish frequently, including thyroid problems from the heavy metals especially present in longer living species of fish. I'd do some research on this if I were you to familiarize yourself with these issues.
I've also read that cats with kidney problems benefit from proteins that are easier to digest, rather than less protein. So you might want to replace the red meat with rabbit, fowl, or poultry.

There are multiple articles on feline-nutrition.org that have information on kidney and urinary tract health. Here is just one of them:

A Diet for Urinary and Kidney Health

But the first article I listed is definitely relevant to your questions: there may not be anything wrong with your cats blood tests at all.

 

[She's a witch]

Hey, thanks! there is a mountain of info in there. I will have to sit down for a few hours tonight to go through it. She ate around 0900, and the appointment was at 1000. They said she had no urine available, so they were unable to take a sample. They called me to pick her up at 1245. All of the test were done in the window. Not sure if that would have been too soon to do the test. She has a followup appointment for a teeth cleaning and her shots next Wednesday. Perhaps I'll get another blood test done and see how it compares.

My vets have always told me to fast a cat prior to the chemistry blood panel tests as eating may affect the results.

 

[Tuckamukk3]

Oops, sorry Boy_Narf, looks like you already got the point on the fish thing. When I replied I hadn't realized this thread went on for 4 pages.... nor have I figured out yet how to edit my posts....

But it looks like you're getting a lot of informative responses, which is great.

I feel for you on the whole vets-against-raw-diets thing; I live in a rural area and all the vets out here are old and old-fashioned about feline nutrition. Earlier in the year before I started feeding raw or even researching it my female had a UTI, and I specifically asked if it was because she was on dry food, and the Vet said no, that was not a cause (!).
Unfortunately I don't really have options out here, so even when I have to take my cats to the vet I pretty much end up having to do all my own research to get answers. Both times I've taken one of my cats to the vet for an ailment I've ended up diagnosing the causes myself with no help from the Dr.
When diet does come up in the future I figure I can hold my own. I've done a ton of research, continue to research, am very precise and careful in the kitchen, and too bad for him if he doesn't agree with it. And hopefully someday I'll live in a civilized city again... for instance you don't run into this problem so much in L.A. where raw diets are in every pet store.

 

[Tobermory]

nor have I figured out yet how to edit my posts

Tuckamukk3 , you’ll be able to edit after you’ve posted a certain number of posts. I can’t remember how many but it’s about 20 or 25. Then you can tap on the small bars at the lower left of your post and you’ll see the word “edit.”

 

[Tuckamukk3]

Oh, thanks Tobermorey. No wonder I couldn't figure it out.

 

[furmonster mom]

okay, late to the party and haven't read the whole thread so I apologize if this has already been mentioned...

As I recall, it's not unusual for raw fed kitties to have slightly elevated CREA/BUN levels. My vet, knowing I fed a raw diet, was never overly concerned with the levels my kitties were at. The way she put it was; a few slightly elevated numbers are not an issue, it's when we start seeing elevated numbers across the board, or in specific areas (ALT, etc.,.) that we need to start being concerned.
Just as a reference point, she's been my vet since before I started feeding raw in '08 (in other words, she supported the transition and knew what to look for).

 

[Boy_Narf]

Hey guys,

So I just finished with the last appointment for shot updates, teeth cleaning, and blood work $$$

All three of my cats had near identical results from their blood tests, and I think the vet has realised that as well. He gave me a hard time when I took Chai in, but by the third cat, he just said blood-work looks fine, nothing to worry about.

Anyway, everyone is happy and healthy with clean teeth. Thanks again for all the info, and have a joyful day.

 

[ChaoticEva]

You'll have to forgive me, as I didn't read all of the replies.

Banjo had gotten a UTI when he was on raw. My vet was quick to tell me that there was a lot of bacteria in his urine (duh, that's why he has an infection). We did a blood test and everything was perfect! But still, I contacted the woman I get my raw food from and this is what she told me :

Older cats need less phosphorus in their diets. Though you are giving Banjo a good mix, I would suggest giving him one meal a day with bone (white meat like Chicken, Turkey, Rabbit etc) and one without (red meat like Venison, Bison, Kangaroo, Horse etc). By doing so, you are reducing the amount of phosphorus your cat is taking in. Which in turn, help minimize kidney issues in the long run.

I've been doing this mix for a few months now and he has not had another relapse. Keep in mind that I get my raw completely balanced (80:10:10 or just 90:10 like the Venison and Kangaroo and I do not add supplements). A lot of companies have more bone than what they are should have. I would suggest contacting the company you use to make sure they aren't adding more than 10% bone. Unfortunately, some cats are more sensitive and even if you've fed them raw all their life, kidney issues can arise.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Boy_Narf]

Hi, thanks for the info. I believe Carnivora grinds up the full animal and turns it into patties. I will do a bit more research on the topic.

 

[ChaoticEva]

Hi, thanks for the info. I believe Carnivora grinds up the full animal and turns it into patties. I will do a bit more research on the topic.

I would definitely ask them about bone percentages, as they do not indicate it on their website or product, which I find quite weird.

 

[Rosepud]

She is currently sitting at 2.2, and he said we really need to get that down. He then proceeded to recommend a "prescription kidney focused" cat food from Hills. He said that raw food has too much protein in it and will cause serious kidney issues if I don't switch her to dry food. This was quite a shock to me as I figured I was feeding them good quality stuff! I then did some research and haven't found much linking raw food to kidney disease. What I found was quite the opposite. That although raw food has higher levels of protein than most kibbles, the higher liquid content helps their bodies process it more effectively.

This isn't the first time a vet has tried to sell me their "prescription food", but it is the first time a vet has told me it's doing my cat harm.

Hi! Darwins offers a prescription raw for kidney support, that my boy got put on before he passed. A large reason is phosphorous makes cats with kidney disease not feel good, and is hard on their kidneys. If you are opposed to the Hill's kidney support all you need is a prescription from your vet sent to darwins and you can order the raw. I personally am not a fan of Hill's science diet, and my cat wouldn't eat it during the short time he was on it. Hill's also has a wet k/d diet which is better for the kidneys that the dry so I'm not sure why you would need the dry specifically. I have 10lbs of it(the darwins kidney support) that I ordered before he passed so if anyone here is in the UP to Illinois range you're welcome to it for free it's take up a lot of freezer space and I don't want to waste it.

 

[Rosepud]

Hi! Darwins offers a prescription raw for kidney support, that my boy got put on before he passed. A large reason is phosphorous makes cats with kidney disease not feel good, and is hard on their kidneys. If you are opposed to the Hill's kidney support all you need is a prescription from your vet sent to darwins and you can order the raw. I personally am not a fan of Hill's science diet, and my cat wouldn't eat it during the short time he was on it. Hill's also has a wet k/d diet which is better for the kidneys that the dry so I'm not sure why you would need the dry specifically. I have 10lbs of it(the darwins kidney support) that I ordered before he passed so if anyone here is in the UP to Illinois range you're welcome to it for free it's take up a lot of freezer space and I don't want to waste it.

I have not realized I missed a lot of this conversation hope this is still relevant/allowed.