I think I'm ready....

[ldg]

OH! Are you using FD liver for Naku? Carolina got to wondering about the amount of FD liver that needs to be given, and contacted Etta Says to get the information about how much fresh liver is how much of the Etta Says FD liver. How much fresh liver should Naku be getting weekly?

Carolina and Wolcar feed the same amount per meal, so their fresh liver for 5% would be .225oz daily: that works out to 3.8 cubes (roughly) of Etta Says FD liver daily, so they're both feeding 4 cubes a day. I think Naku eats a little more, but if you want the info to calculate how much he should be eating daily, it's in this post: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248915/help-me-further-balance#post_3251324

Here's the math: basically, 0.33oz of Etta Says liver = 1 ounce of fresh liver.

And those little cubes weigh ON AVERAGE 0.02 per cube.

So that's (about) 17 cubes per (fresh) ounce of liver.

So 17 cubes x 0.225oz is about 3.8 cubes of the Etta Says liver.

So for Naku, just take 17 cubes and multiply it by the daily ounces of fresh liver he'd be eating.

Wolcar and I decided to reduce the amount of meat we feed our kitties by the fresh-weight equivalent of the liver. I'm only using the FD liver for three of the cats (Laz gets CoTW and the others like and keep down fresh liver) - but as the ones that get fresh liver have their meals reduced by the amount of liver given at a meal, I figure it's safer - if I don't want weight gain over time - to do the same for the FD liver kitties. :dk:

 

[princessesme]

Overall, they're really doing well!

That's a really nice rotation of proteins!

Yeah - even the pork I have to do 05/50 with a white meat (chicken or turkey breast, though sometimes I use thigh).
....and I had the same thing happen with Spooky. I used to pill her at meal time, and then she started avoiding meals.

I had to start just randomly pilling her during the day, and using a treat to make sure it went down.

As to the CoTW, I'm the same with Lazlo. He likes it, he does well on it... and honestly, because of his cancer, I actually like the anti-oxidants in it for him. So I'm keeping him on it.

Something else to consider for Esme, BTW, is 500mg of Evening Primrose oil. From all the work I did on Flowerbelle when they thought she had asthma, it's recommended for that (and skin-related allergy itching). It's high in GLA, which cats CAN convert to DGLA. It's an omega 6, but it acts like an omega 3, in that it's an anti-inflammatory 6.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194593
This study was with GLA and EPA - but you're already giving them krill oil, right?

No Krill oil yet. I initially tried it and Esme was not trying to have it. So, krill oil was put on hold until I could get them consistently eating their foods with the various supplements (which they are now, especially now that she is back on CoTW).

I'm also recruiting my BF to do some of the pilling's during the week, so I'm not always the bad guy!

I will look more into that Evening Primrose Oil as well, since that will have more benefits for her.

OH! Are you using FD liver for Naku? Carolina got to wondering about the amount of FD liver that needs to be given, and contacted Etta Says to get the information about how much fresh liver is how much of the Etta Says FD liver. How much fresh liver should Naku be getting weekly?
Carolina and Wolcar feed the same amount per meal, so their fresh liver for 5% would be .225oz daily: that works out to 3.8 cubes (roughly) of Etta Says FD liver daily, so they're both feeding 4 cubes a day. I think Naku eats a little more, but if you want the info to calculate how much he should be eating daily, it's in this post: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248915/help-me-further-balance#post_3251324
Here's the math: basically, 0.33oz of Etta Says liver = 1 ounce of fresh liver.
And those little cubes weigh ON AVERAGE 0.02 per cube.
So that's (about) 17 cubes per (fresh) ounce of liver.
So 17 cubes x 0.225oz is about 3.8 cubes of the Etta Says liver.
So for Naku, just take 17 cubes and multiply it by the daily ounces of fresh liver he'd be eating.

Wolcar and I decided to reduce the amount of meat we feed our kitties by the fresh-weight equivalent of the liver. I'm only using the FD liver for three of the cats (Laz gets CoTW and the others like and keep down fresh liver) - but as the ones that get fresh liver have their meals reduced by the amount of liver given at a meal, I figure it's safer - if I don't want weight gain over time - to do the same for the FD liver kitties.

Yes, Naku is currently getting Etta Says FD Liver. I'm actually feeding them 4.5oz daily now (so the same as Wolcar and Carolina). They were at 6oz daily, but they both started cutting back on their food and leaving leftovers, so I brought them down to 4.5oz (for him, it's now about about 2.7% of his body weight). I will probably reduce his regular intake just a smidge too, so I don't have to worry about his weight. As part of his transitioning into kidney (his 5% other), he will be getting a little chunk of kidney on top of his food every day, to slowly build up to it, without the diarrhea.

 

[ldg]

Yeah - the krill oil. I'm feeding it to 4 of the 8. Chumley is the only one that likes it squished on his food.

I just pill it to the other three. They don't mind though. Lazlo is used to being pilled, and Flowerbelle and Billy are just like "what happened? Never mind, food is here now!" :lol3:

...as to Naku and the liver, then there you go! If he likes it, upping his daily amount to 4 cubes shouldn't be a problem. wolcar and Carolina's kitties (and mine!) are happy about the adjustment.

 

[ldg]

I know things have been busy with Naku's teeth - but I've been wondering how the raw transition has been going! ??????? :cross:

 

[princessesme]

I know things have been busy with Naku's teeth - but I've been wondering how the raw transition has been going! ???????

Hii! It's been awhile and SUPER busy! The transition is still going well! Although, Esme is starting to be a stinker and be VERY picky with her food.

Some days she chows down and other times, she kind of gives me the "Eh.." kind of look. I even tried giving her freeze dried and she won't eat it. She did eat a bit of this morning, but then vomited it up 5mins later.

On the bright side though, I brought some turkey back into the mix and they have been doing fine! I definitely have to put another meat order in with Hare Today because I would love to add venison into their mix. I definitely have to get better at mixing up their meats throughout the day. I end up feeding one kind of meat one day, another kind (and then chicken) another day and so on. But they are still getting variety in the week, so I am happy with that! Naku has also been eating his kidney topping once per day, so I think I am going to up it and still give him the chicken liver treats for now, until I get him fully onto raw kidney.

So all in all, I've gotten one spit up (nothing crazy) -- AND -- I have finally started adding drops of krill oil in! Keeping it at 1 to 2 drops at the moment, because I know they both know it's there. I will be increasing that though some more.

 

[ldg]

Boy do we all know that "Eh" kind of look! :lol3: Yeah - that's why I have to rotate what I feed them through the day. A couple of them really don't like eating the same thing in the same day. And THIS - from kitties that ate the same dry food and the same wet food (Hill's c/d) day in, day out for 7 years....

But it doesn't sound like they're driving you crazy enough for us to get the padded white room ready for you, so that's good! :lol3:

 

[princessesme]

Boy do we all know that "Eh" kind of look!

Yeah - that's why I have to rotate what I feed them through the day. A couple of them really don't like eating the same thing in the same day.

And THIS - from kitties that ate the same dry food and the same wet food (Hill's c/d) day in, day out for 7 years....
But it doesn't sound like they're driving you crazy enough for us to get the padded white room ready for you, so that's good!

Haha! No padded room quite yet, but please keep me a reservation, because I have a feeling in the next month I may need one. Not sure why, but I just have a feeling..

 

[feralvr]

Haha! No padded room quite yet, but please keep me a reservation, because I have a feeling in the next month I may need one. Not sure why, but I just have a feeling.. :smshfrk:

I will save the room next to mine And BOY do I know that "look" of disgust!!! :lol3: I don't have it so much anymore except from the rincess: Perla. But in the beginning, I would get the looks and then the turns and spins as they panic about what is in their bowls.

It really sounds like everything is going pretty darn tootin' good for you!!!!! :bigthumb: And adding in a few vibes . just in case you need them in the next month. :lol3:

 

[ldg]

Hahahaha :lol3: Well, let's just hope you're wrong about the coming times..... and let's hope neither of you need "that" room! :cross:

 

[princessesme]

Hahahaha :lol3: Well, let's just hope you're wrong about the coming times..... and let's hope neither of you need "that" room! :cross:

Lol. Well... I have begun reintroducing rabbit now and Esme is not trying to have any of it.

Good news is, Naku has been eating it without vomiting!

I think Esme's issue is with it being ground. She does not seem like to like ground food one bit, so I have to see if I can buy just rabbit meat.

My Hare Today order with venison should be here today I think, so I will be storing it for a future week to introduce that.

 

[ldg]

Yep, that's how I ended up feeding the diet I do! Most of them refused to eat any more ground food. I was able to introduce some back into the rotation - they will eat the ground pork and ground rabbit from Hare-Today now.

FYI, I have searched high and low for rabbit meat. I've contacted local farmers (there are several that raise rabbits here - but they're organic, pastured rabbits, and they cost $14 a pound! ). I buy the whole (skinned) rabbits from Hare-Today. It's still expensive at $17 per rabbit. They weigh 3 - 4 (and sometimes more) pounds. I usually get 3 - 4 12-ounce portions of meat off of them now. It's hard the first couple of times, but I don't leave much behind now (and it doesn't take all afternoon. :lol3: ). ...but it's the most economic source of non-ground rabbit I've been able to find (so far).

 

[otto]

Boy do we all know that "Eh" kind of look! :lol3: Yeah - that's why I have to rotate what I feed them through the day. A couple of them really don't like eating the same thing in the same day. And THIS - from kitties that ate the same dry food and the same wet food (Hill's c/d) day in, day out for 7 years....
But it doesn't sound like they're driving you crazy enough for us to get the padded white room ready for you, so that's good! :lol3:

Isn't that strange? Why is that, I wonder. I mean that a cat may eat the same kibble day after day after day, but once they get a taste of something better, even if it's canned food, rather than raw, but definitely with raw, they suddenly demand variety.

 

[princessesme]

Yep, that's how I ended up feeding the diet I do! Most of them refused to eat any more ground food.

I was able to introduce some back into the rotation - they will eat the ground pork and ground rabbit from Hare-Today now.
FYI, I have searched high and low for rabbit meat. I've contacted local farmers (there are several that raise rabbits here - but they're organic, pastured rabbits, and they cost $14 a pound!

). I buy the whole (skinned) rabbits from Hare-Today. It's still expensive at $17 per rabbit. They weigh 3 - 4 (and sometimes more) pounds. I usually get 3 - 4 12-ounce portions of meat off of them now. It's hard the first couple of times, but I don't leave much behind now (and it doesn't take all afternoon.

). ...but it's the most economic source of non-ground rabbit I've been able to find (so far).

Thanks! That's what I was thinking, that I'd have to order the whole rabbit. You will definitely not see me cutting that up! My lovely honey will be recruited for that job!

Have you ever ordered the rabbit chunks? They have bone included.

 

[ldg]

Thanks! That's what I was thinking, that I'd have to order the whole rabbit. You will definitely not see me cutting that up! My lovely honey will be recruited for that job! :lol3: Have you ever ordered the rabbit chunks? They have bone included.

:nod: Yes, I started with those. The large chunks are basically quartered smaller rabbits. That's why I decided to give the whole rabbit a try. It was easier to get more meat off of the whole rabbit. And they do include the kidneys, heart, and spleen, so you get those organs with it. I just collect them until it's enough to feed them as the organ portion of the meal.

 

[ldg]

Isn't that strange? Why is that, I wonder. I mean that a cat may eat the same kibble day after day after day, but once they get a taste of something better, even if it's canned food, rather than raw, but definitely with raw, they suddenly demand variety.

Right? :dk: It's so odd!

 

[princessesme]

It's been awhile again since I posted, so I figured I would put in some updates although there really isn't much!

They have both been doing really well on raw lately, thank goodness! Although, I got some more Stella and Chewys and this batch, Esme won't eat when I do have to feed it. Crazy kitty. She ate it before!

They've been doing well on their proteins for the most part, although I've been now introducing venison and Esme doesn't really seem interested. In general, she doesn't seem to be much of a red meat fan, so I may have to do the regular 50/50 deal, if she will even eat it.

She is difficult, that one.


On a funny note, we had some friends over this past weekend and they were so fascinated with how soft our cats are. We just kept reciting "See... Raw diet."

 

[ldg]

I've been thinking about you guys, so glad you posted!

And so glad all is going well! :bigthumb: Yep - that's Shel, and that's why I don't feed full meals of red meat. BUT... I'm just glad he does well with the 50/50 approach, it's nice to have the proteins in rotation. I altered my menu to include beef, and everyone kept it down! (at 50/50 :lol3: ).

Spooky gets fussy about a meal every once in a while. I have no idea what it is. I stopped trying to get her to finish months ago. It seems to work for her - she's always hungry enough at the next meal to eat it without fuss. :lol3:

And :lol3: at your friends loving your SUPER SOFT kitties! I know WE can't keep our hands off the cats!

Aw, I'm so happy everyone's happy!

 

[princessesme]

Is my padded room still reserved?! I'd like to check-in please!

Red meat and Esme is still not going over well. Even with little bits with white meat(s), she is soooooo hit or miss. Most often times, she doesn't eat it. So -- got a question! Are there any problems with giving her just white meat? For example chicken thighs, chicken breasts (and/or tenderloins), pork, turkey thighs, turkey breasts. She will consistently eat those, for sure.

I gave her some rabbit again lastnight and me and her had a little verbal argument.

Me: "Esme, pleaseeee eat your food." ..placing her in front of the food

Esme: Reowwwwwwwwwwww - Translation: "NOOOOO!"

Me: "Ok.. how about some Fortiflora?" ..open it for her to sniff and then put a lot on her food (I'm trying to convince her really this time)

Esme: Crawls back up on the bed and giving me crazy lady looks

Me: "Please sweetgirl!" ..place her in front of the food again to get a sniff of Forti Flora

Esme: REOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW - Translation: "BEEP no! It smells good but I know what's under there!"

Me: "Fine, be a stinker." At this point I leave her a lone to maybe see if she will eat a bite or two.

It's like she wants to eat it because of the Fortiflora, but she knows I am up to something.

 

[otto]

Mazy won't eat any red meat either. She is getting chicken and turkey only. Gizzards, hearts, thighs and breasts, all poultry. I have a cornish hen here, but haven't tried her on that yet.

Jennie and Queen Eva LOVE steak. :lol3:

Enjoyed the conversation. I have talks like that too sometimes.

 

[ldg]

Shel couldn't keep down red meats, so I didn't have them in rotation for a long time.

You've got a nice mix of proteins - "they" (whoever "they" is) say a minimum of three.

...and, well, you are a crazy cat lady, she's just got your number! So welcome to the club!