I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

Buffster7

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Well, I had to pop in here and post a couple pics. Finn and Charlie had a more serious scuffle tonight when I got home. Not sure why Charlie has been gunning for Finn so much, but I can't make any assumptions. My first instinct is to say it's bully behavior, but then Charlie has been stalked a lot. And they're all about "paybacks". Anyway.

I heard a scuffle then Charlie start yelling and they separated. Then Charlie pounced and pinned Finn, And Finn started yelling. Little bit of fur flying in both instances. I sprayed a spray bottle up in the air and let it "rain" down on both of them. I know there are all kinds of articles about why spray bottles shouldn't be used, but I've found that if I spray water in the air from a distance and they feel any of the drops coming down, they'll disperse without seeming to feel targeted. They gave each other a wide berth after that. Finn paced the house crying. He acted distraught.

About an hour later when I ate dinner, I settled on the bed to relax. Charlie joined me. Then Finn, forever my little peacemaker, crept up behind Charlie and very gently laid his head on Charlie's back in a peace offering. Charlie allowed it. They ended up snoozing and touching. My heart! Cats are so weird. But I love these two so much. :redheartpump::hearthrob::redheartpump:
Peace1.jpg

Peace2.jpg
 

pearl99

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Maybe Finn has a bit of Siamese and gets vocal (like my Gracie does...) The spray in the air sounds like a good idea! Directly squirting them they can tell it's us humans, but in the air it's from the great above! Which Finn would have experienced, rain and sprinkles.
I guess this is their life. Scrapples then snuggles.
Forgot to add: if my hands are the least bit damp when I go to pet Mooshoo she knows it somehow right away and backs away. Some sensitive fur that one has.
 

Jcatbird

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I wonder if they each thought the other sprayed them? :oops: Lol Was it kind of ,” Moms home! Pet me first! No, me first!” Cats can be a mystery but that is part of the challenge and also part of why we love them. The photos show pure love and that’s another reason we love them.:redheartpump: I would never be able to resist those two. They still have scuffles but They’ve come a very long way.
 

Buffster7

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Maybe Finn has a bit of Siamese and gets vocal (like my Gracie does...)
JCatbird suggested that Finn might have a bit of Siamese and I really think that he does. So many of his characteristics, the vocal sounds he makes, and personality align with Siamese. He does not like conflict - when he and Charlie get into it, he will walk around the house vocalizing, even if he's the one who started it.

He's been antagonizing Charlie today intentionally. This is what I mean when I say they are all about paybacks. I have a PetFusion scratcher that Finn ignores and has never used, so Charlie has claimed as his 'perch'. He has made it very clear that it is HIS spot. This morning Finn has stolen his spot several times, very obviously intentionally baiting Charlie, because Finn has never shown an interest in laying there, and it makes Charlie sooooo mad! He picked on Charlie all morning long, then when it was time to lay down for their late-morning nap, he chooses to lay on Charlie's chair as close as Charlie will allow. He will not allow himself to be bullied, but he is insistent on being "friends" when it comes time to lay down. Totally frenemies. But I guess it makes sense; if he was a stray his whole life before I took him in, each and every contact he had with cats must have been contentious. It's not like cats are friendly with stray cats if they're not in a colony. So Finn doesn't really know any better, poor guy.
Charlie after reclaiming his scratcher...quite annoyed:
grouchy.jpg

I wonder if they each thought the other sprayed them?
I don't think they do - they know this spray bottle. If I pick it up and shake it, they will sometimes stop. Kind of like when I would pick up a can with coins in it and shake it. But when things get really heated, I have to come toward them with the can and shake it vigorously before they back off, and sometimes even then they want to continue. The minute they feel drops falling, they will disperse, no matter how heated. I feel okay about it because they both get the mist so I don't get the impression they feel like I'm targeting them. I don't get hurt feelings from them, either.

I do wonder about quality of life and stress level if these two won't make peace. How fair is it to keep two cats in one household where they struggle to get along? At this point, I love them both so much, I can't imagine being without either one of them. They don't seem happy when I separate them. They seem to split their time between coexisting peacefully and then being scrappy with each other. I keep praying that they keep improving. Through it all, I still get the distinct sense that even though they can stress each other out, they are happier together than they would be apart. Like an old married couple. Just now I watched Charlie look back and forth between the two chairs, one of which was occupied by Finn, and choose the chair that was occupied by Finn to jump up on to nap. Even though Charlie won't lay close - he chooses to lay on the ottoman while Finn is in the seat - he would still rather be on the same chair than his own. Kind of "can't live with ya, don't wanna live without ya either".
likeyoufromadistance.jpg

Edited to add: Post is confusing. Earlier this today Finn joined Charlie when it was time to nap. Just now, after lunch, Charlie joined Finn. So they both do 'choose' to lay down in the same general area which is what makes me think they prefer to be together than apart. But man, do they pick on each other! And they're mad when they do - how many times don't I see one of them with the other's fur hanging from his mouth. They are working it out, I think, it's just taking MUCH longer than I anticipated.
 
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pearl99

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It sounds like you are describing my mom, my grandma (my mother's mother), and my aunt (my mother's sister.)
Growing up we vacationed visiting them A LOT- every summer almost- my aunt and grandmother lived in the same town. And together they argued and disagreed and squabbled the whole time.
I used to wonder "why does my mom want to visit so often?" But at the heart was family and it was just their way. :argue:. And cats are noisy and snarky to us when they disagree, so sounds like it's their way for now, and maybe they will work more out.
If Charlie was somewhat of a bully in the past, and Finn was part of a colony where they did socialize, here they are bringing their past to your house :ohwell:. Maybe they will get tired of it. It's been a year, and cats, I know, can take even longer to get to where they are more peaceful.
I second guess myself having brought 2 new cats in with 2 adults, but I don't have fights (yet.) I wonder also if they (Moo and Waffles) will always be "you stay there, I'll stay here and don't come near me"- they are not totally comfortable with Gracie (after 7 months.)
But, they have a good home and it's what cats do.
 

Buffster7

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It sounds like you are describing my mom, my grandma (my mother's mother), and my aunt (my mother's sister.)
Growing up we vacationed visiting them A LOT- every summer almost- my aunt and grandmother lived in the same town. And together they argued and disagreed and squabbled the whole time.
I used to wonder "why does my mom want to visit so often?" But at the heart was family and it was just their way. :argue:. And cats are noisy and snarky to us when they disagree, so sounds like it's their way for now, and maybe they will work more out.
If Charlie was somewhat of a bully in the past, and Finn was part of a colony where they did socialize, here they are bringing their past to your house :ohwell:. Maybe they will get tired of it. It's been a year, and cats, I know, can take even longer to get to where they are more peaceful.
I second guess myself having brought 2 new cats in with 2 adults, but I don't have fights (yet.) I wonder also if they (Moo and Waffles) will always be "you stay there, I'll stay here and don't come near me"- they are not totally comfortable with Gracie (after 7 months.)
But, they have a good home and it's what cats do.
I had to smile with the visual of your mom, aunt, and grandmother! :lol: I'm with you - I can't do squabbling, I need peace, but I know people who that is just their 'norm'. For them, a family get-together just isn't complete without a squabble or two!

With your crew, at least Moofles will always have each other. Gracie seems fine with just you - you are Gracie's person, and as long as she has you, she seems to be content, do I gather that correctly? I'm so curious to see how Ziggy will fit in. Yet, in spite of the change and adjustments to your household over the last year, they're really all doing remarkably well...as are YOU! You must have just the right temperament to handle this. :) I'm too tightly wound - my two were allllllll I could handle. Can't imagine four!
 

pearl99

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I had to smile with the visual of your mom, aunt, and grandmother! :lol: I'm with you - I can't do squabbling, I need peace, but I know people who that is just their 'norm'. For them, a family get-together just isn't complete without a squabble or two!

With your crew, at least Moofles will always have each other. Gracie seems fine with just you - you are Gracie's person, and as long as she has you, she seems to be content, do I gather that correctly? I'm so curious to see how Ziggy will fit in. Yet, in spite of the change and adjustments to your household over the last year, they're really all doing remarkably well...as are YOU! You must have just the right temperament to handle this. :) I'm too tightly wound - my two were allllllll I could handle. Can't imagine four!
Yeah this is my limit!! And oh I am soooo Gracie's person. The rest of the world does not matter one bit. It's heartwarming but I have to make sure I spend time in Moofle's favorite hangouts to give them what they need. I think till Gracie goes over the bridge I will be alternating sleeping in the downstairs (Gracie doesn't do the basement...) and my main level bedroom every other night :oops::rolleyes:o_O:thud: - all are wanting to sleep with me. Ziggy is an unknown about that yet. One step at a time...she loves her room though and has no complaint about being in there. And I have a house with multiple bedrooms and baths. Lucky there!!!!
 

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I have been home on disability since March and I have had lots of time to hang out with my street Ferals.
It's been really interesting watching their behavior, one minute they give head butts and the next minute they
can be swatting each other, and sometimes I think it has nothing to do with the other cat, there is something in
the air, like redirected aggression etc.. it's weird, one could make the slightest move and the other doesn't know
what that is and they get a little squirrelly.
My 3 Street Ferals are friends there was a time when 1 of them was the bully, I have a 4th Feral that still needs neutering
but with the virus they are not doing clinics, He is not part of my group and the 3 don't really like him but they seem to tolerate
him eating breakfast.
 

Buffster7

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I have been home on disability since March and I have had lots of time to hang out with my street Ferals.
It's been really interesting watching their behavior, one minute they give head butts and the next minute they
can be swatting each other, and sometimes I think it has nothing to do with the other cat, there is something in
the air, like redirected aggression etc.. it's weird, one could make the slightest move and the other doesn't know
what that is and they get a little squirrelly.
My 3 Street Ferals are friends there was a time when 1 of them was the bully, I have a 4th Feral that still needs neutering
but with the virus they are not doing clinics, He is not part of my group and the 3 don't really like him but they seem to tolerate
him eating breakfast.
W walli !! It's so good to see your name pop up! Will you be on disability permanently, home with your kitties from now on? Very interesting insight regarding your feral cat behavior with the swatting and redirected aggression! Whatever happened to the feral who was a bully - does he still come eat breakfast? Give us an update when you get a chance, would love to hear how your guys are doing!
 

walli

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Hi!
all the ferals are doing really well, I have 1 to neuter still, because of the virus they are not doing clinics
"Charlie" is still kind of an outsider he is not part of my gang but they are tolerating him from a distance
and he seems to be a bit calmer, I think he knows these 3 are my cats and he is being good.
I am home with Cancer (Lymphoma) the doctor said the treatment is going extremely well and expects
me to be completely cured, don't worry about me Im doing really well and have been blessed through
this trial in so many ways!!

Oh fyi the last time I trapped "Charlie" it seems I trapped the wrong Male Tuxedo cat Ha ha!
this cat must have ventured in on trap day looking exactly like Charlie and got neutered!!!!
I thought he was a bit heavy for my Charlie, so when Charlie started coming around again
I took a good look at him and yep it's my slinky Charlie and no tipped ear.
OMG that poor tuxedo cat, I have not seen him since!!!!
oh well another neutered cat!!
 

Buffster7

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Hi!
all the ferals are doing really well, I have 1 to neuter still, because of the virus they are not doing clinics
"Charlie" is still kind of an outsider he is not part of my gang but they are tolerating him from a distance
and he seems to be a bit calmer, I think he knows these 3 are my cats and he is being good.
I am home with Cancer (Lymphoma) the doctor said the treatment is going extremely well and expects
me to be completely cured, don't worry about me Im doing really well and have been blessed through
this trial in so many ways!!

Oh fyi the last time I trapped "Charlie" it seems I trapped the wrong Male Tuxedo cat Ha ha!
this cat must have ventured in on trap day looking exactly like Charlie and got neutered!!!!
I thought he was a bit heavy for my Charlie, so when Charlie started coming around again
I took a good look at him and yep it's my slinky Charlie and no tipped ear.
OMG that poor tuxedo cat, I have not seen him since!!!!
oh well another neutered cat!!
Oh my word, I laughed so hard about trapping and neutering the wrong cat!!!! I'm still laughing, that is GOLD! :lolup:
I had no idea about the lymphoma - how long ago were you diagnosed? I'm so sorry to hear that you've been enduring treatment, but thrilled that it is going well. Are you exhausted with this whole process? I will pray for a complete and total healing, Walli! Please keep us updated as to how you're doing as your treatment progresses? How much longer do you have left in this round, or is this your only round? So many questions, and you may not wish to go into it on here and if so, I do understand.

Well, Charlie, enjoy those nuggets while you have them...Walli has big plans for them once the clinics open up! I hope Joey and Walli are doing well? I bet they've been enjoying having you home more often, too!
 

walli

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hee hee! my last treatment will be July 31st on my birthday! that will be #6
number 5 is on July 10, chemo is weird it is bad for a certain amount of days
and then it gets better as your cells regenerate. They have new treatments that
kill cancer cells only, I have 1 of those meds, the other 2 kills everything!
Thanks for prayers! love them! sorry to talk about cancer on the cat thread!! :D

I may be back to work in September depending on how I feel and my doctor
but sheesh I sure am enjoying not working!!
 

Buffster7

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hee hee! my last treatment will be July 31st on my birthday! that will be #6
number 5 is on July 10, chemo is weird it is bad for a certain amount of days
and then it gets better as your cells regenerate. They have new treatments that
kill cancer cells only, I have 1 of those meds, the other 2 kills everything!
Thanks for prayers! love them! sorry to talk about cancer on the cat thread!! :D

I may be back to work in September depending on how I feel and my doctor
but sheesh I sure am enjoying not working!!
You have such a beautiful attitude. There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about the diagnosis (I refuse to call it "yours" - don't claim that disease, evict it!) I am really impressed by your strong spirit. So many people these days seek attention and will air any and every misfortune for a little sympathy, and here you are saying "don't worry about me!" I really admire that.

I know what you mean about enjoying not working for a bit. This whole COVID thing has been quite the reset, a real break from reality. Life was so hectic before that, and it suddenly came to a screeching halt. It's been so peaceful for so long now, I worry that reality will be a crushing blow when things are back to normal - ha! His grace is sufficient for ALL situations, and will be at that time, too. :)

I will be back as I have some questions about people's experience with over-grooming, but don't have the mental energy to get into it tonight. I am so happy to hear from you, Walli, and I am excited for you that your final treatment is coming up this month!! That will be a good day! :redheartpump::hearthrob::redheartpump:
 

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W walli :heartshape::yeah::rock:
I am so glad you are getting through everything and still have that beautiful outlook. You are a shining example for us all. As always, My heart and prayers are with you.
 

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W walli Please know you are in my thoughts. I am happy to hear you are doing well. Please do keep us posted.

Buffster7 Buffster7 I had a cat a few years back that was an obsessive over groomer. I used Jackson Galaxy's obsession rememedy. It really helped.

 

Buffster7

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W walli Please know you are in my thoughts. I am happy to hear you are doing well. Please do keep us posted.

Buffster7 Buffster7 I had a cat a few years back that was an obsessive over groomer. I used Jackson Galaxy's obsession rememedy. It really helped.

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Ooooh, this is good to know! It is worth a try.

I keep vacillating between it being territorial anxiety or environmental or food allergies. A couple days ago it was SO BAD, but there wasn't much conflict between them that day. That Sahara dust was heavy in the area, and our allergy index for dust is still at a 10, so I wonder if he's aggravated. My own allergies have been really bad this week. Yet, with as much as he And Finn can tussle, I can't rule out the anxiety.

I also ordered some of that Tiny Tiger from Chewy's when it was on special recently to try to take my food cost down. However, I balance it with his high-quality food so he doesn't eat the cheap stuff every day. Just in case, I've eliminated it. I had started giving him Dasuquin for his joints again. I'm mixing it in his Churu and he's keeping it down. I stopped that just in case it was making him itch. I don't know what to do, but he is getting so bald and it is breaking my heart!!
Bald1.jpg

Bald2.jpg
 

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I know that we worry when kitties are licking or itching. I still have bouts of that with a couple of cats here. Working on it! With Mama I am convinced it is a bite from a flea. Her tail gets sparse. Jeremiah makes me feel it could be the same issue but he is far more sensitive to it. Then again, I am changing up their dry food because it seemed to start when I changed that once. As they get older it seems to flare up a little more often. Is their food grain free? Changing up needs to be gradual but I was reading about grain and yeast overgrowth causing hot spots. What about antimicrobials? Maybe that Jackson Galaxy product will work. You had good results with other flower type products. Has anyone suggested the chamomile? I have heard of people using a soft ( cloth) cone to keep them from licking in order for the hotspot to heal. I have never been able to watch my cats struggle with a cone but many people do very well using cones on cats. A soft one sounds much nicer. I can’t imagine what Charlie and Finn would do with that! You might have to cone them both! :oops: I can just imagine that discussion between the two! We’ll keep investigating! Sending Charlie soothing purrs.
 
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