I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

I did look into it, but the reviews talked a lot about the low quality ingredients and it scared me. I really wish I knew enough to make my own food for them so I knew what was going into the food. I used to make my dog's food, but cat food seems trickier.

Speaking of food, I want to see what you guys think. I posted this over in the cat nutrition forum, but I'd like your opinions. I tried a new cat food, and Finn is CRAZY about it. Weird thing is, now that he's been here a year, he's become my picky eater. He's no longer food motivated AT ALL, and there are days that it's hard getting him to eat much at all. I got these Vital Cat turkey patties, and as long as I crush and mix them in and sprinkle over his food, he will eat nearly anything. Loves them.

Problem is, there are pieces of bone in them that, to me, seem a bit large. Makes me nervous; he's so petite. I emailed the company pics, and they responded that what I'm seeing is cartilage and not bone. So last night I picked a chunk out of Finn's food and soaked it in hot water for 15 minutes to see if it would soften up. It did not. Hard as a rock, and the sides are sharp and jagged. The company thinks this is fine and safe. What do you guys think? Safe, or should I be concerned?

 

[pearl99]

That looks like 3/8 of an inch. I wouldn't want pieces that big, and I don't know if cartilage hardens with the manufacturing process, as in cooking done. So I'm not sure if this is cartilage or not.
I have been making homemade cat food with the Dr. Lisa Pierson recipe, until with Covid I couldn't get the chicken thighs from Costco anymore (not buying grocery store thighs- cost less at Costco.)
But I do mix it with purchased wet cat food (I use Merrick wet food- they like the flavor in bought wet food more than straight homemade....) I didn't want to feed only the homemade, just felt safer.
And on her website she has a picture of bone size she is NOT comfortable with, and here's the link to that page- scroll down almost all the way down below where it says "Bone Size" bolded, and you'll see the picture. These pieces you found look bigger.

Making Cat Food

So yeah I personally would not want this in cat food I feed. Others may disagree.

 

[pearl99]

Oh, and today we had 2 sessions with Ziggy and no intense stares from Ziggy. She did watch, but would look away on her own. And if it went too long I was able to distract her, I think this is going to work! Maybe in 8 more months they will be mostly intro'd... .

 

[Furballsmom]

Can you remove those bits so he can have the food he enjoys?

 

[Buffster7]

And on her website she has a picture of bone size she is NOT comfortable with, and here's the link to that page- scroll down almost all the way down below where it says "Bone Size" bolded, and you'll see the picture. These pieces you found look bigger.

I had checked out the pic and I'm wondering if those bone pieces were dangerous because they're so thin and could more easily puncture? Now that I look at the first pic again, it does look more cartilaginous, but several pieces including the two largest are like teeth. They just make me nervous. Could they cause a bowel obstruction if too many were consumed? hmmm

Oh, and today we had 2 sessions with Ziggy and no intense stares from Ziggy. She did watch, but would look away on her own. And if it went too long I was able to distract her, I think this is going to work! Maybe in 8 more months they will be mostly intro'd... .

Looking away is a great sign! This smells a lot like progress to me! Man, in a world where it seems like every bit of news is negative, isn't it funny how just a little bit of good news makes everything a little bit brighter? Your crew is doing so well! My boys have been super testy the last two days. Tonight I watched them "work it out" in the next room (on camera) and it is so much easier for me to stay out of it if they do it in the next room! Things definitely feel less tense now. Cats are SO WEIRD the way they need to stand off, face off, and overpower each other or come to some sort of agreement before they can relax. My dudes are so alpha, though-Ziggy on steroids. Your bunch seems to have more mellow personalities - thankful for small mercies!

Can you remove those bits so he can have the food he enjoys?

That's what I've been doing. It's pretty tedious and I'm afraid I'll miss one. I'm going to order the chicken next time and see if it's any better. The consistency (other than size of the chunks) and flavor seems to be much preferred by Finn. Worth trying again. I didn't have the heart to call Chewy about it. I had a real hard time with several orders throughout the whole COVID mess and had to cancel several orders. They issued me a credit for an order that arrives super late - I didn't request a credit and felt bad, so I'm just going to keep picking chunks out of this one and hope that the chicken flavor has fewer large objects.

 

[pearl99]

Hoping the food works out! I wouldn't want to give pieces that big in case they would build up in intestines. I don't know how things affect feral cats when they eat birds and mice etc., but for me feeding that's what I think.

Yes my kitties are more mellow. Today Ziggy jumped up on the couch with me, with Moo sitting on the back of the couch. She didn't stay long, but she's trying things out. We'll be good. Yes the little things. Adding to it is that I could take her in from my wonderful neighbors after their tragedy.
Moo and Waffles get testy, today I heard growls and screeches from Moo, toward Waffles- he gets snarky sometimes. They do from time to time. They are funny how they relate to each other!

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm just going to keep picking chunks out of this one and hope that the chicken flavor has fewer large objects

Would a strainer/sifter or sieve with larger mesh help?

 

[Buffster7]

Moo and Waffles get testy, today I heard growls and screeches from Moo, toward Waffles- he gets snarky sometimes. They do from time to time. They are funny how they relate to each other!

Well that makes me feel better that your boys fuss at each other even though bonded! Mine have been AWFUL the last couple days. It feels like every day I catch them with a mouthful of the other's fur in their mouths. Charlie has been very very naughty, going after Finn non-stop. I'm not sure what's going on, but Charlie's so aggravated and his over-grooming has thinned out his fur from the middle of his body down. He used to have a thick, long, fluffy coat on his belly especially. Now I see his pink belly through the mowed fur. I had thought it was seasonal allergies, but now I'm thinking it's territorial anxiety. I don't know that I don't make things worse by scolding when I see them really picking on each other; it's just hard to hear them yelp and see one bite or pull fur out of the other. If I didn't love Finn so much, I would have total regret over this whole rescue. It might be different if Finn loved being an indoor cat and was grateful to be rescued, but there are days he still walks around the house crying, obviously wanting to be outside. He and his personality are very suited to outdoors. Athletic, great hunter, endless energy. Charlie, on the other hand, is a terrible hunter, total couch potato, and totally suited to indoors and only-cat status. It is definitely a roller-coaster. And yet...despite all this I STILL get the feeling that these two would prefer to be together than apart. I do think they were both lonely before they were forced to cohabitate.

I had to give Charlie a time-out just now because he would not stop picking on Finn - it was bad. So I picked him up and carried him to my room and shut the door. Finn followed and would not move from the other side of that door. I let Charlie out after 15 mins, and he walked around the house wailing. Finn moved from his chair over to Charlie's chair (Charlie wasn't in the chair); at first I thought it was to aggravate Charlie, but he settled down and put his head down, and I swear it felt like a peace offering. I picked Charlie up and put him on the back of the chair, and he chose to stay. A prideful acceptance of the peace offering..

Would a strainer/sifter or sieve with larger mesh help?

No, because the food is in patties, so I have to crumble it up anyway. When crumbling, I just feel around piece by piece. However, I did put the patties in a food processor and crushed everything up; it seemed to break most of the large pieces of bone/cartilage into smaller pieces that I'm more comfortable with! Now I'll just sprinkle the powder over Finn's food rather than use it as his main food. It works!

 

[Buffster7]

Ahhhh, 1 year ago today! Charlie alerted me to the presence of Finn crashed on the back patio. And so it began!

 

[pearl99]

Well that makes me feel better that your boys fuss at each other even though bonded! Mine have been AWFUL the last couple days. It feels like every day I catch them with a mouthful of the other's fur in their mouths. Charlie has been very very naughty, going after Finn non-stop. I'm not sure what's going on, but Charlie's so aggravated and his over-grooming has thinned out his fur from the middle of his body down. He used to have a thick, long, fluffy coat on his belly especially. Now I see his pink belly through the mowed fur. I had thought it was seasonal allergies, but now I'm thinking it's territorial anxiety. I don't know that I don't make things worse by scolding when I see them really picking on each other; it's just hard to hear them yelp and see one bite or pull fur out of the other. If I didn't love Finn so much, I would have total regret over this whole rescue. It might be different if Finn loved being an indoor cat and was grateful to be rescued, but there are days he still walks around the house crying, obviously wanting to be outside. He and his personality are very suited to outdoors. Athletic, great hunter, endless energy. Charlie, on the other hand, is a terrible hunter, total couch potato, and totally suited to indoors and only-cat status. It is definitely a roller-coaster. And yet...despite all this I STILL get the feeling that these two would prefer to be together than apart. I do think they were both lonely before they were forced to cohabitate.

I had to give Charlie a time-out just now because he would not stop picking on Finn - it was bad. So I picked him up and carried him to my room and shut the door. Finn followed and would not move from the other side of that door. I let Charlie out after 15 mins, and he walked around the house wailing. Finn moved from his chair over to Charlie's chair (Charlie wasn't in the chair); at first I thought it was to aggravate Charlie, but he settled down and put his head down, and I swear it felt like a peace offering. I picked Charlie up and put him on the back of the chair, and he chose to stay. A prideful acceptance of the peace offering..


No, because the food is in patties, so I have to crumble it up anyway. When crumbling, I just feel around piece by piece. However, I did put the patties in a food processor and crushed everything up; it seemed to break most of the large pieces of bone/cartilage into smaller pieces that I'm more comfortable with! Now I'll just sprinkle the powder over Finn's food rather than use it as his main food. It works!

I guess they would not like a separation daily for some peace, it sounds like. If Finn sat by the door and Charlie came out wailing after a time out. It's hard to listen, and I'm not there but I wonder how it would be if no scolding- I can't remember if you have done that. Gracie is starting to get testy with Moo and Waffles, they both still hiss and growl at her if she gets too close, and Gracie will rush them for about 5-6 feet on occasion. I think she's tired of the hissing and growling! I'm letting it go on (it's nothing too serious.) I've for months done the reassuring and pets when they do that, treats, feeding near each other, play in proximity of each other, to get some positivity, but it still goes on. I don't know why they do that. But it's not biting and fur grabbing.
I have no suggestions.

Glad you've found a food solution in the food processing!

 

[Buffster7]

I guess they would not like a separation daily for some peace, it sounds like. If Finn sat by the door and Charlie came out wailing after a time out. It's hard to listen, and I'm not there but I wonder how it would be if no scolding- I can't remember if you have done that. Gracie is starting to get testy with Moo and Waffles, they both still hiss and growl at her if she gets too close, and Gracie will rush them for about 5-6 feet on occasion. I think she's tired of the hissing and growling! I'm letting it go on (it's nothing too serious.) I've for months done the reassuring and pets when they do that, treats, feeding near each other, play in proximity of each other, to get some positivity, but it still goes on. I don't know why they do that. But it's not biting and fur grabbing.
I have no suggestions.

Glad you've found a food solution in the food processing!

I think they would do better with no scolding. When I can keep my eyes averted and let them work it out, they tend to do so without a brawl. Growls and circling and such, but one of them will eventually back down. It's not always the same one, either.
However, when they go through a fur-flying patch like now, I get afraid of a 'real' fight that would require a whole separation and reintroduction again. Does that still happen after a year together? So I will usually just step get up and walk by them and distract them, or leave the room and they follow. This morning when Charlie jumped up and pulled Finn off his perch and I heard Finn's body hit the floor with a loud THUD, I scolded. Charlie has 6 extra lbs on Finn and sometimes it scares me. And you are right - that never, EVER makes it better. Charlie can be so rough, and he is so much bigger than Finn. But Finn can bite so hard, and he uses his claws. So I should just butt out. It's hard.

*While I was typing this, this was the scene, same place I had left Charlie when Finn tried to make peace:

Then Charlie jumped down and just had to nip Finn and give him a good *whap* on the head before retiring to the ottoman. This time didn't feel as aggressive, just more like "This is my chair, I'm allowing you to stay, and don't you forget it" type behavior. I wonder if they will ever be at peace.

 

[pearl99]

I would probably intervene too with fur flying. I remember the recent post by someone saying sounds like they are "frenemies." That seems to fit!!
The whap on the head to remind sounds like cats!
Today with Ziggy out and Moo on the couch, Ziggy looked all relaxed nearby then all of a sudden..."I wanna get that Moo..." like she was trying to fake me out to let my guard down. But I have her number!

 

[pearl99]

Then Charlie jumped down and just had to nip Finn and give him a good *whap* on the head before retiring to the ottoman. This time didn't feel as aggressive, just more like "This is my chair, I'm allowing you to stay, and don't you forget it" type behavior. I wonder if they will ever be at peace.

And your video here looks familiar! This is what Waffles will do to Moo sometimes. Finn looks just like Moo does. Then Waffles settles.

 

[Jcatbird]

I haven’t been getting alerts to your posts. So sorry! I just wondered what Finn heard at the end of the video. It definitely got his “alert” face on.
Charlie! Oh my. Purrsonalities. Finn just laid there looking. Maybe listening too? He was totally still. It had me curious.
As I was reading about those bone pieces I was thinking, grind them. No need. You’ve got a handle on all this stuff! Lol Sending all lots of purrs!

 

[Buffster7]

Well, I have making an extra effort to not interfere. Aside from tufts of fur in mouths, I am not seeing the chunks of fur I used to see. Also, Finn is becoming more vocal during their disputes, which I'm glad of. I realized a while ago that Charlie is very vocal whenever he gets surprised or has full-on contact with Finn - he yelps loudly right away. Finn has started doing that, too - it's not an aggressive yell, it's a defensive one. So I'm glad that Finn is letting Charlie know when he's being too rough. Both boys also know those yells will often bring Mom. Sometimes I think one of them gets scared and WANTS me to give them an out. If the yell sounds particularly distressed, I will wander into the the room and stroke them both; when I walk away, they'll follow.

Just now I heard a prolonged yell from Finn that worried me. I 'wandered' into the living room to find Finn on his side and Charlie standing over him. I loved them both up and left the room and sat down to finish my lunch. Next time I looked over, they are both sitting on the chair. Not together, but Charlie on ottoman And Finn in chair. WOW. Frenemies is right!!

I just wondered what Finn heard at the end of the video. It definitely got his “alert” face on.

My house, they're listening to my house pop and make noises! My house has been making new popping noises lately, and boy does it make me nervous! You know I've been treating for carpenter ants, and when I hear these new popping sounds and think of my sagging floors, it makes me wonder if they've done more extensive damage than I'm aware of. Nothing can be addressed right now, though; all must wait until I graduate and start working. But yes, it was another house "pop" that got their attention!

Today with Ziggy out and Moo on the couch, Ziggy looked all relaxed nearby then all of a sudden..."I wanna get that Moo..." like she was trying to fake me out to let my guard down. But I have her number!

It sounds like you have a Charlie on your hands with Ziggy! I am still so fascinated by cat personalities. Why Moo?? Moo is your chill-and-laid-back one, right? If you were to be honest, which one of the four is your "favorite", or tugs at your heart most? I wonder if cats can sense that? I know both of mine are so very 'jealous' (territorial) - whenever I give the other any attention, they are NOT happy. Since cats are so good at sensing and picking up on our emotions, I wonder if they can sense if we have a soft-spot for a particular cat, and this makes them target the cat more? Even though Charlie is my baby and he's my soft spot, lately Finn has really been stealing pieces of my heart and I feel like that's been evening out. I've wondered if Charlie senses this and if it contributes to him targeting Finn so much, because he's really been hard on Finn this past month! Hmmm

 

[Jcatbird]

I think cats know everything about their humans. Originally, I think Charlie and Finn felt they owned each other. Lol Then came the discussion about which cat is too cat. They still go back and forth on that one. As long as they can call you to settle it, they will. It is needed at times. With you there more, I am betting they use that more than they would if you were not home. After all, you are their favorite. It’s the old thing of riding in a car with a sibling,” Mom! He touched me! No! I only touched him after he touched me!” Lol They do this for parental attention and to get over on one another and yet they can sleep in twin beds at night. During a thunderstorm, they would comfort each other. Kidties!

I am hoping the ants have moved on. With temperature changes and just the natural settling of a house, creaks and pops happen. You should hear the noises in a house that is 150 years old! When we moved into that house and I was a kid, I heard all sorts of noises. Time to put my head UNDER the covers at night! Lol

 

[pearl99]

Well, I have making an extra effort to not interfere. Aside from tufts of fur in mouths, I am not seeing the chunks of fur I used to see. Also, Finn is becoming more vocal during their disputes, which I'm glad of. now, though; all must wait until I graduate and start working. But yes, it was another house "pop" that got their attention!

It sounds like you have a Charlie on your hands with Ziggy! I am still so fascinated by cat personalities. Why Moo?? Moo is your chill-and-laid-back one, right? If you were to be honest, which one of the four is your "favorite", or tugs at your heart most? I wonder if cats can sense that?

It's because Waffles heads for the basement whenever I take down the gates to let Ziggy out, he know the signs so Ziggy has not seen as much of him. But, Ziggy and Gracie are totally fine with each other. Does Ziggy sense Gracie is older and less likely to swat, fight etc.? Gracie sleeps a lot in spite of being out and about more. And Gracie is totally nonchalant when she sees Ziggy. Moo however has watchted Ziggy closely, done some stares herself, been crouched etc. So different body language and attitude.
I'd say Gracie is the most chill-and-laid-back.
I can't say who tugs at heart strings the most. Waffles because he is sooooo loving and was soooooo scared at first; Moo because she is silly and funny and doesn't seem to have a lot of brains; Gracie because of the way she talks to me; Ziggy because she lost everything at 13 years old.

I'm glad there are less tufts of fur! I do the same checking things out and giving scratchies when Waffles and Moo growl at Gracie. Then they are just fine. And Waffles actually slept in the bottom of the cat tower with him knowing Gracie was in the cubby above him yesterday. After 7 months! So it helps!!

 

[Buffster7]

I think cats know everything about their humans. Originally, I think Charlie and Finn felt they owned each other. Lol Then came the discussion about which cat is too cat. They still go back and forth on that one. As long as they can call you to settle it, they will. It is needed at times. With you there more, I am betting they use that more than they would if you were not home. After all, you are their favorite. It’s the old thing of riding in a car with a sibling,” Mom! He touched me! No! I only touched him after he touched me!” Lol They do this for parental attention and to get over on one another and yet they can sleep in twin beds at night. During a thunderstorm, they would comfort each other. Kidties!

I am hoping the ants have moved on. With temperature changes and just the natural settling of a house, creaks and pops happen. You should hear the noises in a house that is 150 years old! When we moved into that house and I was a kid, I heard all sorts of noises. Time to put my head UNDER the covers at night! Lol

Jcatbird , you are so right as to the boys going back and forth with me here - I don't think they do this as much when I'm not around! And I sure hope you're right about the carpenter ants. I had a picture pop up on my phone from memories, and it was from 4 years ago when I took a picture of an ant swarm on the back side of my house. I didn't know at the time that they were carpenter ants! I remember googling them and thinking they were just ants migrating. But in the picture I could see the queen, so they must have just arrived! Then last summer when I was cleaning out the home office which had been used for storage, I cleaned off those 'shavings' from the window sill. And then not long ago when I found the carpenter ant eggs. Makes me wonder how long they've been trying to nest here! I do put ant bait out every spring when the ants are bad, and hope that I've been killing them off periodically. I just had another large bag of granules delivered and will be crawling under the house to sprinkle those tomorrow. Yikes! Lots of brown recluse spiders under there - they need to go, too.

I love you and your insight - you are always spot on- thank you for being such a fountain of wisdom over this last year. You are truly a gift to this community.

 

[Buffster7]

It's because Waffles heads for the basement whenever I take down the gates to let Ziggy out, he know the signs so Ziggy has not seen as much of him. But, Ziggy and Gracie are totally fine with each other. Does Ziggy sense Gracie is older and less likely to swat, fight etc.? Gracie sleeps a lot in spite of being out and about more. And Gracie is totally nonchalant when she sees Ziggy. Moo however has watchted Ziggy closely, done some stares herself, been crouched etc. So different body language and attitude.
I'd say Gracie is the most chill-and-laid-back.
I can't say who tugs at heart strings the most. Waffles because he is sooooo loving and was soooooo scared at first; Moo because she is silly and funny and doesn't seem to have a lot of brains; Gracie because of the way she talks to me; Ziggy because she lost everything at 13 years old.

I'm glad there are less tufts of fur! I do the same checking things out and giving scratchies when Waffles and Moo growl at Gracie. Then they are just fine. And Waffles actually slept in the bottom of the cat tower with him knowing Gracie was in the cubby above him yesterday. After 7 months! So it helps!!

I didn't realize til you typed this that every one of your crew are female! Aren't females supposed to be the hardest to integrate? And here you are pulling it off like some kind of Cat Whisperer! You are doing such a fantastic job with those girls of yours. How old is Gracie that she sleeps so much? Charlie sleeps ALL THE TIME. I mean, sometimes I worry about him because I think he needs to move more. He might have one or two short bursts of energy during a day, but for the most part I would say he sleeps 21 out of 24 hours, and he's only 9 years old!

I have a better understanding of your cats' personalities now, it'll make it more interesting to watch this integration process unfold. And how nice that Waffles felt 'safe' enough to nap in the same cat tower as Gracie! Funny how simple little acts can just make your day. The other day I saw Finn and Charlie play and then both lay down (usually when one days down the other will stalk them like prey) and relax - thought my heart would explode! Love it when they throw us a crumb, lol.

 

[pearl99]

I didn't realize til you typed this that every one of your crew are female! Aren't females supposed to be the hardest to integrate? And here you are pulling it off like some kind of Cat Whisperer! You are doing such a fantastic job with those girls of yours. How old is Gracie that she sleeps so much? Charlie sleeps ALL THE TIME. I mean, sometimes I worry about him because I think he needs to move more. He might have one or two short bursts of energy during a day, but for the most part I would say he sleeps 21 out of 24 hours, and he's only 9 years old!

I have a better understanding of your cats' personalities now, it'll make it more interesting to watch this integration process unfold. And how nice that Waffles felt 'safe' enough to nap in the same cat tower as Gracie! Funny how simple little acts can just make your day. The other day I saw Finn and Charlie play and then both lay down (usually when one days down the other will stalk them like prey) and relax - thought my heart would explode! Love it when they throw us a crumb, lol.

Waffles is a boy, my only boy right now. I didn't purposely choose females, they chose me! Pulled at heart strings. .
Gracie is 12 years old, she has a grade 3 heart murmur, no other health problem so far (had a good checkup and labs when I brought her home.) She's starting to not sleep quite as much during the day- her more active time is in the night. At least from what I can hear. But when she wants to play she is quite the little warrior! She gets really serious. She probably sleeps the same amount as Charlie.
Waffles (the boy) is actually the most wary of Ziggy. Waffles was a semi-feral, I adopted him at 2 years old- the first of my current bunch.
Moo is starting to get down on the floor when Ziggy is out. Waffles is starting to sit in the kitchen beside the fridge or on the first 2 basement steps while Ziggy is out to hear the goings-on, out of sight!
Good for Finn and Charlie!!! Yes those teeny tiny baby steps just make my day. I'm so glad there are some moments for you from these rowdy boys!!
Today I found out Ziggy is afraid of rain and thunder, had a small storm while she was out. It was kind of a chuckle seeing this big fat kitty just creeping around close to the floor, she's a bit overweight. She crept over to me for some reassurance.