I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

rubysmama

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Buffster7

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You guys, this video just popped up in my memories today. I was preparing to trap Finn, he was allowing me to touch him at this point. Now that I've had Finn indoors this past year and know him, his mannerisms, and his vocalizations, I can tell that something was wrong with him in this vid. I had no idea back then. He appears to be in pain, and it breaks my heart to watch it now! Not sure if it was the worms, URI, or if the UTI he developed was already starting. But seeing this vid fills me with such gratitude that I trapped him when I did! Love this little dude. :lovecat2:


And this popped up on my memories a few days ago. The day I discovered that Finn was a "he"! :lol:
Nuggets.JPG
 

Buffster7

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Something unfortunate but very interesting just happened after I posted. I was playing with Finn under a blanket (he loves duck and cover), and it was a few minutes of real feel-good. When we were done, I circled around the chair to walk away and accidentally stepped on Charlie's tail, who I didn't see sitting behind the chair. Charlie made a guttural sound, I yelped, and Charlie darted. Finn sprang into action and pounced on his back to bite. Poor Charlie!! What was interesting was that when I said "Finn, NO!" he stopped and looked at me with a distinct surprised look on his face. I went to Charlie saying, "I'm sorry" in the same tone I use whenever I accidentally bonk one of them to let them know it was an accident. While doing this and stroking Charlie's head, Finn came over and crouched by him, facing him.

It reminded me of the time when I went to grab Charlie and Finn thought I was hurting Charlie and jumped on me in attack mode. In the same way, I think Finn thought Charlie was attacking me this time and went into attack mode. When he realized it was okay, he went and crouched beside Charlie, almost in a "sorry, dude" manner. It's like Finn turns into an attack cat when he thinks one of us is hurting the other. I have a little protector in the house.
 

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You do have a protector. I have no doubt of this. While working on the colony rescues, after I had earned trust, BJ stood guard and always alerted me to intruders. He still stands between me any ANY visitors. New people are always happy at how he keeps rubbing across the front of their legs. Back and forth. Back and forth. If they move, he maintains a position between us. Lol Since most don’t recognize, “ the look”, they assume BJ instantly makes friends. I leave it at that. The one person he gave “love nips” to may have suspected something more. They did not reach out to me a second time. :lol:
He also meets everyone at the door and lets me know if another creature is in the yard. Of course, you already know how BJ guards his colony mates. The relationships between cats and their loved ones are far more involved than many people would ever guess. I already knew that Finn loves you both so, go Finn!

So sorry about the tail squish Charlie! :redheartpump:
 

Buffster7

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Jcatbird, I love your stories about BJ! I try not to attribute human characteristics to the cats, but it's hard. Especially when they're particularly intuitive and intelligent. Finn is SMART, and you can see it in his yes. BJ is the same way! Very funny story about the "love nips" - mmmmm hmmmmmm. :lol:

Yesterday was a rough day - Finn escaped! My mom was over, and I was taking her out on the patio on the side of the house, and Finn slipped between her legs and out the door. I honestly don't think he meant to - he loves my Mom and just wants to be with her. My first instinct was to chase him and grab him, but I remembered a post I read by ArtNJ here recently where he detailed what to do if a cat escapes. I went back into the house and got a Churu while Mom watched him through the window to keep an eye on him. She said he circled around to the back yard and went sniffing around the patio table, but that he stayed crouched down low like he was intimidated.

I was able to lure him back with the Churu and pick him up once he sniffed and started eating it. I know some people take their cats outdoors and the cats stay in the yard, but oh my word I was terrified. Finn is so fast and so antsy, I was afraid he would dart off and disappear. Once I'd had him back in the house for a while, I was going to try to take Mom out to the patio again. This time I picked Finn up and held him in my arms. When I opened the door he panicked - all stiffness and claws. He didn't want anywhere near the door - maybe he thought I was going to throw him out? Dunno, but he was antsy and crying at the doors and windows the rest of the day, and jumping Charlie. That was a lot of words for a simple story..phew. Sorry bout that!

Pic of Finn mapping out his escape route just before his jailbreak:
Finn.jpg
 

walli

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wow! ha ha such adventures! you were smart not trying to grab him
potential cat bites too!!
Thanks for all the kind words everybody!, hey buffster what was the name of the calming chew you got? I think I got confused to which one you got.
Just need the name of the chew! thanks so much.
ha ha when Joey gets aggressive I ask him if he wants to go out and stand in line for food with the Ferals!
just kidding!! of course!
 

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Oh my! Finn! I’m sure he was surprised. I have two darters, Lady and Purry. It’s unnerving. None of the others do that on purpose. Lady is very used to her harness walks but if there is a neighbor or noise outside, she still panics and runs back to the door. Purry thinks he owns the world and is quite casual about it. He darts and then pretends he didn’t. Lol Nice leisurely stroll. He stays exactly two steps ahead of me so he obviously knows I am trying to pick him up. Purry really only wants to reach a particular patch of grass so I pick some and he follows my hand as I lead him back in. Lady wants her walk and sometimes a bit of grass. Lol They both seem to do this over a period of time and then stop. I don’t always know what puts the idea in their heads but do be careful for awhile. Finn may do it again. Perhaps he did just want to be with your mom or maybe he desires some grass too since he had that hairball. There’s nothing so wonderful as eating grass and throwing up hairballs!
Great thinking on grabbing food!
 

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Yup.....totally frienemies. They may be like that for a long time, but as long as they aren't making each other bleed they'll work it out eventually.

I also ordered some of that Tiny Tiger from Chewy's when it was on special recently to try to take my food cost down.
I fed mine Tiny Tiger for a while for the same reason, at least until I found out they source some of the ingredients from china. I'm back to feeding them alternating raw with Tiki Cat because even though it's a bit high priced for canned food it's at least less expensive than raw.

Does anyone have any experience with behavioral peeing? The household is a busy one - four kids, I believe, but good kids. Both Mom and Dad spend lots of time with the kiddos - very well-liked family in the neighborhood. So - sounds like it's a happy environment, just busy with the kiddos. No other pets. This little kitty is just a kitten - maybe a year old I'm going to nose around the site here in a bit, but I thought I would run this by those who I consider to be the experts.
Depending on her personality it may just be too much activity for her. It could also be that she may not like the litter, some Cats don't like the feel of certain types of litter or if the bits are too large. Check and see if she's declawed as that can cause Cats to not use a litterbox. Ask if they previously had a pet that messed in the house, any residue that might be left could also cause it.
 

shadowsrescue

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Whew. So glad you were easily able to retrieve him!

Btw, I tried the calming supplement you also have. My poor Shadow, 90 minutes after less than 1/4 of a treat, he vomited everywhere. I won't try again. It's Zylkene only! I did try it one of my other boys and he did fine with it. So I can still use it.
 

Buffster7

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Just need the name of the chew! thanks so much.
ha ha when Joey gets aggressive I ask him if he wants to go out and stand in line for food with the Ferals!
just kidding!! of course!
LOL at telling Joey to stand in line with the feral! These cats have us right where they want us, they're not worried. ;) Here's the link to the chews: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FRP3MR4/?tag=thecatsite
Hopefully they don't make yours throw up like they did to Shadoesrescue's cat! Charlie has no problem with them.
Finn may do it again. Perhaps he did just want to be with your mom or maybe he desires some grass too since he had that hairball. There’s nothing so wonderful as eating grass and throwing up hairballs!
I'm so paranoid now, I put him in my room whenever I have to open the front door! Great thinking about the grass - I had forgotten that you'd recommended that in the past. Although I'll need to leave my yard to get the grass. I had the exterminator out today to treat for the carpenter ants. He found nests in several trees that surround my house and took care of them. He got under my house in the crawl space and found no damage, praise the Lord! Other than water damage from leaky windows and doors, of course.
I fed mine Tiny Tiger for a while for the same reason, at least until I found out they source some of the ingredients from china.
Where did you learn this information? I wonder which ingredients are sourced from China? That is SO DISAPPOINTING!! I bought two boxes, so I have another unopened box, still. Why would ANY pet company who cared about pets source anything from China?? Awful!
Yup.....totally frienemies. They may be like that for a long time, but as long as they aren't making each other bleed they'll work it out eventually.
Man, I sure hope so. Finn has had 2 time outs today - I was awakened this morning at 4 am by Charlie screaming. Finn just pounced him out of nowhere - there were clumps of hair where he was laying. What a horrible way for Charlie to be awakened! Then this afternoon Charlie was hiding in the corner - he's been afraid of Finn all day - and Finn walked right up to him unprovoked, jumped him, and tore out quite a lot of fur. I feel absolutely awful and sad for Charlie. His over-grooming has been off the charts today. So anxiety definitely exacerbates it. Breaks my heart that his peaceful home has turned into an unsafe place and he feels the need to hide, now. I really hope that they do figure it out, because this is no way to live for him and I feel incredibly guilty. :bawling2:
Btw, I tried the calming supplement you also have. My poor Shadow, 90 minutes after less than 1/4 of a treat, he vomited everywhere. I won't try again. It's Zylkene only! I did try it one of my other boys and he did fine with it. So I can still use it.
Ugh!! I am so sorry! That's a big jar for it not to have worked out - bummer. I wish Zylkene worked for Charlie - it's just so much easier. But it truly gives him crazy eyes and then he starts vocalizing and can even get a little aggressive with Finn. I don't understand it - it should do just the opposite. I've tested it out enough now to know it's the Zylkene. Do you get the higher dosage and use less of it to make it go further? I read in the reviews that some people do go that route.
 

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Poor Charlie. Do NOT let yourself fall into the guilt trap. Charlie is the one who kept going to watch Finn and indicated a desire to be around him in the beginning and we don’t have a crystal ball. Going by past history, originally, you worried about Charlie being a bully. There have been shifts back and forth between them. Finn just got a taste of some outside scents. That often gets kitties worked up for awhile. It’s not unusual. Also, try to remember that when a cat has a pain ( like tummy has or hair ball upset) they can redirect their aggression. Food hairballs, a dash outside and you have Carpenter ants nearby. Those ants are something the cats can hear munching! The cats here tried repeatedly to make me aware of Carpenter ants but I failed the cat speak translation until I had an outlet burn up! The ants were keeping the cats in that room agitated even before they entered the walls. I just didn’t “see” the cause. Once the ants were gone, the cat room became a place that was much more relaxed. That’s not to say that we don’t have our tiffs though. That type of ant is very aggressive and feeds on other bugs. They have wars with termites too. You did find one dead one inside so it’s even possible that an ant bit Finn. The ants bite and spray acid into the bite. I have been bitten by them and it really hurts, then itches! As you stated the other day, we cannot assign human traits to cats. Put your thinking cat on. Lol You are not to blame for any of this. You have given both cats a wonderful and loving home. You saved both lives more than once so far. You have attended to any illness and every need. We cannot know everything a cat experiences. We , sadly, are not as fine tuned. Is Finn on the calming supplement that made Charlie aggressive?

I am so glad the exterminator did not find ants anywhere but outside! Any chance that Finn headed outside to investigate the ants? Maybe he planned to bite one! ;) Still protecting his world.





I just wanted to remind you of this.
You guys, this video just popped up in my memories today. I was preparing to trap Finn, he was allowing me to touch him at this point. Now that I've had Finn indoors this past year and know him, his mannerisms, and his vocalizations, I can tell that something was wrong with him in this vid. I had no idea back then. He appears to be in pain, and it breaks my heart to watch it now! Not sure if it was the worms, URI, or if the UTI he developed was already starting. But seeing this vid fills me with such gratitude that I trapped him when I did! Love this little dude. :lovecat2:


And this popped up on my memories a few days ago. The day I discovered that Finn was a "he"! :lol:
View attachment 342765
 

Talien

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Where did you learn this information? I wonder which ingredients are sourced from China? That is SO DISAPPOINTING!! I bought two boxes, so I have another unopened box, still. Why would ANY pet company who cared about pets source anything from China?? Awful!
One of the questions that someone asked on the page was about where the ingredients were sourced, the answer was "The chicken, beef, and turkey are all sourced from USA and Canada. The salmon is sourced from the USA, Canada, Germany, France, or Denmark dependent on availability. Vitamins and minerals come from US, Great Britain, Japan, Switzerland, and France. Select vitamins and minerals may be sourced from China."
 

Buffster7

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Poor Charlie. Do NOT let yourself fall into the guilt trap. Charlie is the one who kept going to watch Finn and indicated a desire to be around him in the beginning and we don’t have a crystal ball. Going by past history, originally, you worried about Charlie being a bully. There have been shifts back and forth between them. Finn just got a taste of some outside scents. That often gets kitties worked up for awhile. It’s not unusual. Also, try to remember that when a cat has a pain ( like tummy has or hair ball upset) they can redirect their aggression. Food hairballs, a dash outside and you have Carpenter ants nearby. Those ants are something the cats can hear munching! The cats here tried repeatedly to make me aware of Carpenter ants but I failed the cat speak translation until I had an outlet burn up! The ants were keeping the cats in that room agitated even before they entered the walls. I just didn’t “see” the cause. Once the ants were gone, the cat room became a place that was much more relaxed. That’s not to say that we don’t have our tiffs though. That type of ant is very aggressive and feeds on other bugs. They have wars with termites too. You did find one dead one inside so it’s even possible that an ant bit Finn. The ants bite and spray acid into the bite. I have been bitten by them and it really hurts, then itches! As you stated the other day, we cannot assign human traits to cats. Put your thinking cat on. Lol You are not to blame for any of this. You have given both cats a wonderful and loving home. You saved both lives more than once so far. You have attended to any illness and every need. We cannot know everything a cat experiences. We , sadly, are not as fine tuned. Is Finn on the calming supplement that made Charlie aggressive?

I am so glad the exterminator did not find ants anywhere but outside! Any chance that Finn headed outside to investigate the ants? Maybe he planned to bite one! ;) Still protecting his world.





I just wanted to remind you of this.
Thanks, Jcatbird. I'm sure Finn is just still worked up from his escape. But it's really hard to see Charlie get attacked like this. I just looked down and saw a scratch in his skin right on his bald spot where Finn jumped him earlier. His skin has been rippling all day long. Just makes me very, very sad. Then tonight Charlie sprayed up the side of the litterbox; it got up on my wall, ran down to the baseboards and soaked the floor underneath. Big smelly mess to clean up. I am so aggravated at the whole situation. It's been a year since it began and there are more days with discord and going after each other than there are of peace. I'm discouraged. I do love Finn a lot, and that complicates things. I don't know how I could rehome him at this point; I love him so much. So we're at an impass, but tonight I have HAD IT with them and the stress they bring to my life. I just got the call that my clinical is opening back up, which is great news. After MONTHS at home with them, we're back to the same place we were when I finished my last clinical. Except now Charlie has bald spots and a cut to show for the last tussle:
Charlie.jpg

Now to decide whether to leave them alone when I go back to clinical or to separate them. I don't think they fight when I'm not home, I think they just sleep. But...does Charlie spend the day hiding and feeling afraid?
As for the supplements; Charlie is on the chews and when I give Finn anything, I give him the Zylkene. I gave him the Zylkene tonight, and he's currently walking around the house wailing nonstop. He's distraught. Charlie's hiding. I'm stressed. We all just need to go to bed and hope for a better day tomorrow.
 

Buffster7

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One of the questions that someone asked on the page was about where the ingredients were sourced, the answer was "The chicken, beef, and turkey are all sourced from USA and Canada. The salmon is sourced from the USA, Canada, Germany, France, or Denmark dependent on availability. Vitamins and minerals come from US, Great Britain, Japan, Switzerland, and France. Select vitamins and minerals may be sourced from China."
So disappointing. Any pet food supplier claiming to care about pets should know better than to get any food items from China. Thank you for the heads up, Talien. Tiny Tiger is no longer an option for me.
 

pearl99

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Do you get the higher dosage and use less of it to make it go further? I read in the reviews that some people do go that route.
That's what I do when I use it, I actually get the 450mg capsules and I have a set of stainless steel measuring spoons one of which is really tiny, and I empty a capsule into a little bowl and dole out the dose with the teeny spoon- I know how much is one dose. Then cover the bowl with saran wrap till the next day.

I'm sorry for all the topsy turvy with your boys! Hoping things settle down with you getting back to clinicals and post escape, ants and all!! :hearthrob:
 

shadowsrescue

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I do purchase the 225 Zylkene capsules and give 1/2 the capsule. It does work.

I am so sorry last night was so bad. There will be bad days. I have 6 cats that are still working it out after living inside together for 2.5 years. It's frustrating, but I could never give up on any of them. 5 are former ferals and would not do well with anyone else.

Maybe once you are not around, they will figure out a way to work things out.

Just a thought, do you keep Finn's nails short? I have a cat that also likes to use his claws. I am certain to trim his nails sometimes every week.

I hope today is a better day.
 

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Thank you guys. Another tough day and Charlie is really going after himself. I left a message for my vet. I'm really concerned about him breaking the skin, now - the licking and chewing is that bad. I'm not sure what would happen if he had to wear a collar.

Quick question. This is something that's been happening for a while now, and I'm not sure if I should allow it and stay out of it or not. Charlie has had a scratcher that he has claimed as his. Finn has been challenging him for it. Finn doesn't even like to lay there; it is very obviously done to antagonize Charlie. Just a few minutes ago, I watched the exchange out of the corner of the eye. Charlie was going to his scratcher to lay down. Finn beat him to it. Charlie tried to get him off; Finn stood his ground. Charlie finally gave up and went to lay down on the floor. The minute Charlie lay down, Finn left the scratcher and went back to his spot on the chair. Now Charlie is laying on the floor and not attempting to reclaim scratcher.

What bothers me is that Finn has taken over EVERY resting spot in the house. He has claimed both cat trees, and even though he doesn't ever use them, he will pounce and bite Charlie if Charlie tries to. Finn has claimed the window ledges, Finn has claimed the chaise lounge that used to be Charlie's. I watched on the camera the other day as Charlie tried to lay on the chaise to look out the window and Finn jumped up and bit him. So Charlie gets no window time anymore and just stays on the ground.

The scratcher was the last thing that Charlie enjoyed laying on. Should I intervene when I see Finn trying to take it? Or is intervening what complicates things and causes more tension?
 

pearl99

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Thank you guys. Another tough day and Charlie is really going after himself. I left a message for my vet. I'm really concerned about him breaking the skin, now - the licking and chewing is that bad. I'm not sure what would happen if he had to wear a collar.

Quick question. This is something that's been happening for a while now, and I'm not sure if I should allow it and stay out of it or not. Charlie has had a scratcher that he has claimed as his. Finn has been challenging him for it. Finn doesn't even like to lay there; it is very obviously done to antagonize Charlie. Just a few minutes ago, I watched the exchange out of the corner of the eye. Charlie was going to his scratcher to lay down. Finn beat him to it. Charlie tried to get him off; Finn stood his ground. Charlie finally gave up and went to lay down on the floor. The minute Charlie lay down, Finn left the scratcher and went back to his spot on the chair. Now Charlie is laying on the floor and not attempting to reclaim scratcher.

What bothers me is that Finn has taken over EVERY resting spot in the house. He has claimed both cat trees, and even though he doesn't ever use them, he will pounce and bite Charlie if Charlie tries to. Finn has claimed the window ledges, Finn has claimed the chaise lounge that used to be Charlie's. I watched on the camera the other day as Charlie tried to lay on the chaise to look out the window and Finn jumped up and bit him. So Charlie gets no window time anymore and just stays on the ground.

The scratcher was the last thing that Charlie enjoyed laying on. Should I intervene when I see Finn trying to take it? Or is intervening what complicates things and causes more tension?
Oh gosh. I'm no expert but I would call that resource guarding. Any way to add more scratchers? Or other resting spots? What about giving them time apart daily?
 
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