How to stop a cat from kneading?

[dogperson2cats]

I'm sorry but your mum clearly should not have cats!! To even consider declawing a cat is absolutely disgusting That cat is showing her affection and she wants to cut its bloody toes off for doing so.
Thankfully declawing is illegal here in the UK and rightly so, should be made illegal everywhere!!
If you don't like cat claws, don't get a cat Simple as.

It's illegal here, too. But the vet takes bribes while he operates out of a mansion...

 

[dogperson2cats]

Are there shelters that foster? Houston has things like Houston area cats and kittens where people post that need help. Rescues that foster respond

Perhaps but they blast and shame you on social media for it because 'pets are forever not just till it gets hard'. Like I said the SPCA told me to remain in an abusive household for my cat rather than them take her because I didn't want her to be homeless.

 

[ArtNJ]

It's illegal here, too. But the vet takes bribes while he operates out of a mansion...

Well, if need be then, how about threats? If your mom gets serious, take a video of your cat, with claws, and tell your mom you'll report her. And if she is all set to call your (bluff?) send a copy of the video to the vet with threat. What did your mom call you, a hippy dippy or something? So Hippy Dippy cat lover to the rescue!

 

[dogperson2cats]

Well, if need be then, how about threats? If your mom gets serious, take a video of your cat, with claws, and tell your mom you'll report her. And if she is all set to call your (bluff?) send a copy of the video to the vet with threat. What did your mom call you, a hippy dippy or something? So Hippy Dippy cat lover to the rescue!

I like the way you think!

I'm not a cat lover. I don't hate them or anything; I just don't think they deserve to suffer and should be loved forever. (But I resent the fact that because we have them I can't get a new dog. I personally think that it would be fine if the dog was cat-friendly and just gave the cats space. It worked out for my last two that way. But mom insists it won't. Probably because I want a pit bull or similar breed but my last doggo was a pit mix and he adored cats.)

Moms cat is a bit well known to the vets because he had an owner for the first few months of his life who then dumped him with a feral colony and kept evading capture...Then he showed up at our house and slept in a shed before getting caught, escaping the SPCA and returning to us months later. The only reason we didn't take him right away was because our senior feral wouldn't allow it. (He was 16-18 and we weren't about to force that on him.)

 

[Caspers Human]

She's tried all that and the cat pushes it away to knead her specifically. He will not do that to anything or one besides her and she HATES it. Currently every time he jumps up on her, she pushes him down and yells at him to F off. He loves everybody but only kneads her.

Bull! She’s doing it wrong. Probably treats a cat the same as a dog.

When a cat makes biscuits on a person it isn’t simply because of affection. It is because the cat looks up to the person as a source of security. Some people say it’s because the cat “loves you” but cats don‘t have human emotions and they show love differently. Cats do love their humans but it’s not the same as the way dogs love their humans. For cats, it more of a trust situation that develops into a long term bond.

If your mother declaws that cat she will sever the trust relationship and ruin the chances of having a good bond. If your mother has her cats digits severed, it will make the cat forever wary.... “lf that human did THIS to me, what will she do next?”

Declawing isn’t just a “manicure.” If you look at this as being analogous to an operation on a human it would be like cutting off the fingers at the first knuckle. It forces the cat to walk around on its knuckles for the rest of its life. It is painful, forever.

If you’ve ever seen a stereotypical “bitchy” cat, declawing will probably turn your cat into one of those “bitchy” ones.

The proper way to handle a cat that kneads on you is called “redirection.” You give the cat an alternate thing to do instead of the undesirable behavior and you give positive reinforcement to encourage the desired behavior.

You don’t just shove a pillow in front of the cat and make it stop kneading.

You OFFER the pillow and pet the cat and say, “good kitty” when it does what you want. Eventually the cat will learn to use the pillow instead of your body. This is some thing that takes time and multiple repetitions.

If your mother can’t get that through her thick skull, she’s not a fit cat owner and, if she’s not willing to learn how to treat a cat, she probably shouldn’t have one.

 

[Caspers Human]

Here... take a look at this diagram.

On the left, you see an X-ray drawing of a cats paw. On the right, there is a similar diagram of a human hand in the same relative position.

Look at the tips of the digits (bones) on both diagrams. Do you see the sections colored in red? Those are the parts that are surgically removed with a guillotine-like device. If you sever off the red parts from the cats paw on the left, you would be severing the red parts from the human hand in an analogous, human operation.

I didn’t think that declawing was that big of a deal until I found out this information. I used to think that it was more like a “permanent manicure” but it’s not.

After the operation the cat is forced to walk on the bare, bony ends of its severed “fingers” with nothing to cushion its steps. The cat will develop hard, bony calluses on its digits and it’s gait will permanently change.

This DOES have negative effect on the cat‘s behavior.

If a person had to walk around on their knuckle bones, how would that affect them?

If it was because of an accident that damaged the finger bones, that would be one thing.

If you were summarily scooped up, hauled off to a hospital, sedated and given such an operation, against your will, how would that affect your relationship with the people you formerly trusted?

It wouldn’t be good. Would it?

That’s what probably will happen if you sever the cat’s paws.

You’ll probably take a mildly bad situation and make it worse.

Cats that have been declawed often start $h**ing and pi$$ing outside the litter box because digging hurts. When that happens, the human often becomes resentful of the cat and that causes a downward, snowball effect, on the relationship between the human and the cat.

This isn't just an "Aw! Poor baby!" kind of namby-pamby kind of a thing when people tell you not to get cats declawed.

This is a harmful and unnecessary operation that maims a cat for life.

Take the time to use POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT techniques to ENCOURAGE the cat to change its behavior!

You'll end up WAY better off in the long run.

And... you'll save money, too!

 

[dogperson2cats]

Bull! She’s doing it wrong. Probably treats a cat the same as a dog.

When a cat makes biscuits on a person it isn’t simply because of affection. It is because the cat looks up to the person as a source of security. Some people say it’s because the cat “loves you” but cats don‘t have human emotions and they show love differently. Cats do love their humans but it’s not the same as the way dogs love their humans. For cats, it more of a trust situation that develops into a long term bond.

If your mother declaws that cat she will sever the trust relationship and ruin the chances of having a good bond. If your mother has her cats digits severed, it will make the cat forever wary.... “lf that human did THIS to me, what will she do next?”

Declawing isn’t just a “manicure.” If you look at this as being analogous to an operation on a human it would be like cutting off the fingers at the first knuckle. It forces the cat to walk around on its knuckles for the rest of its life. It is painful, forever.

If you’ve ever seen a stereotypical “bitchy” cat, declawing will probably turn your cat into one of those “bitchy” ones.

The proper way to handle a cat that kneads on you is called “redirection.” You give the cat an alternate thing to do instead of the undesirable behavior and you give positive reinforcement to encourage the desired behavior.

You don’t just shove a pillow in front of the cat and make it stop kneading.

You OFFER the pillow and pet the cat and say, “good kitty” when it does what you want. Eventually the cat will learn to use the pillow instead of your body. This is some thing that takes time and multiple repetitions.

If your mother can’t get that through her thick skull, she’s not a fit cat owner and, if she’s not willing to learn how to treat a cat, she probably shouldn’t have one.

Every cat we owned was treated like a dog...and we got the behaviors we wanted. (Quiet, non-destructive, generally pleasant to be around.) She says none of her cats kneaded and if they did, they didn't do it like her current one. (They did and because they were held to canine standards, never used claws. But we also had them as kittens. This one came to us as an adult which, despite what she thinks, makes a difference. And they were also RAISED with dogs which made a difference in how they behaved. Our dogs were treated like royalty if that completes the picture.)

She has a pillow for him; puts his nip on it, keeps it where he sleeps, ect. She figured if she uses it, he'll eventually choose the pillow over her. (Laying next to her and not on her.) She places the pillow on her chest when he's up and he pulls the pillow down to sit on her directly. She's grabbed his paws and moved them to a pillow, blanket portion, anywhere he can hook into and not hurt her. Nope. He moves right back to knead her. We've had him a year and she started this from the get-go and he still doesn't get it.

Look my tortie is sometimes a tiny Satan. I love feline mischief; the stealing food, unspooling the wool in the knitting bag, sitting in the worst spot at the worst time. But she has destroyed thousands of dollars of things, will poop in the house after being outside for a couple hours just because we served kibble and not wet food, destroyed about 50 years worth of family heirlooms... (She's not horrible by any means; just weirdly hyper and possible brain damage from abuse before we got her) but it took maybe two months to teach her not to use her nails to knead me. Does she? Only the tips and very rarely does it hurt. If she gets rough, I move her paws to a pillow/soft toy/clothes with my smell but not wearing and she goes at it. She knows if she doesn't, I will shoo her down and no more cuddles with dad. By now, at least 90-95% of the time, she will move *herself* to where she can rip into something to knead but still cuddle me because she *knows* I will not let her use her nails. (Tho she drools enough to classify as a Saint Bernard...) I've literally said "Cat I am a dog person. It's because of you I cannot get a new dog. But yet I adore you. I don't believe in trimming a cats nails or anything because you're cats and cats take care of themselves; one of the few good things about cats. But if you do not stop digging into me, I will duct-tape booties to your pawsies. Understood?" (I never would but oh boy...tiny murder mitts with big claws late at night are not soothing.) But, she gets it.

I feel bad for moms cat; he's not as dumb as he looks. (He looks stoned 24/7 and has a spacey personality to fit. But he's so bright and sweet.) And I know he doesn't mean to be so rough; life on the streets doesn't teach much softness. He's actually a very gentle cat in all other ways. He just goes ham with kneading. If he did it to me, he'd catch on quickly because I'm not about to yell at or hit him. (Unless he ever turns and ends up ripping into me or harming my cat. I'd kill for my girl. He knows this and is gentle with her.) But, he is super-glued to my mom 24/7. I know he'll get it eventually; they all do. But I worry she'll have him replaced with a new kitten before then...She's got her eyes on one for grabs now; a blonde-looking maine coon mix.

 

[ArtNJ]

The pillow thing is a reasonable try. That is basically what we do with a blanket. The only other things I've ever done that have maybe worked at least a little are: (1) if you have a standing kneeder, press down on their back gently until they sit properly; and (2) assuming the cat is doing this while laying down on you or mom, hold the paws to prevent kneeding (does not work well, if at all, but its something to try I guess).

 

[maggie101]

The pillow thing is a reasonable try. That is basically what we do with a blanket. The only other things I've ever done that have maybe worked at least a little are: (1) if you have a standing kneeder, press down on their back gently until they sit properly; and (2) assuming the cat is doing this while laying down on you or mom, hold the paws to prevent kneeding (does not work well, if at all, but its something to try I guess).

Holding her paws is what I usually do. It works! Also take him to the vet to get his claws trimmed if you have trouble

 

[dogperson2cats]

The pillow thing is a reasonable try. That is basically what we do with a blanket. The only other things I've ever done that have maybe worked at least a little are: (1) if you have a standing kneeder, press down on their back gently until they sit properly; and (2) assuming the cat is doing this while laying down on you or mom, hold the paws to prevent kneeding (does not work well, if at all, but its something to try I guess).

He does it either way and if we touch his paws, it's the one thing that makes him hostile. (And he bites with enough force that if he does not break skin or bone, you'll at least have a nasty bruise for a couple weeks. He feels bad after; all purrs and boops.)

He just really loves my mom and shows her a lot.

 

[Furballsmom]

Did you see the earlier comment from Mamanyt1953 about claw caps, which is what I was going to suggest?

How consistent was/is your mom about moving him to that pillow, or did she just give up after trying it a couple times?
She needs to do that Every. Single. Time. repeatedly, over and over, consistently.

 

[Krienze]

Man... ALL of my cats knead. I hate when they do it, it hurts, but I let them and on one hand, I appreciate when they do it because I know that means they are happy. The cat loves your mom... That's a sign of it. In return, she's screaming at him. I would let her know that could very easily damage the relationship she has with the cat. If she claims to love the cat, she should care.

We have one declawed cat -- Isabel. I had cat scratch fever years ago when I was a kid and my mom freaked out and declawed her because the doctor told her it was either that or we had to get rid of her because if I caught it again, I could die, blah blah blah. We've since learned that's BS and I've managed to convince her of how bad declawing is. She's actually horrified now by what it does to the cats and feels terrible that she had Isabel declawed. Maybe you can get your mom some info or show her videos on it, possibly? That helped me when I was working on trying to convince my mom on how awful it is.

The idea of declawing a cat that she intends to let outside at all is also baffling to me D:

 

[Krienze]

Holding her paws is what I usually do. It works! Also take him to the vet to get his claws trimmed if you have trouble

This is what I do with Sam when he starts. I hold the paws through the blankets when it hurts to bad to let him keep going and he usually gets the hint

 

[DreamerRose]

By all means, trim the claws. It has to be done anyway, so you might as well do it now. The cat isn't going to stop kneading for sure. Your mother could also put a lap blanket in her lap instead of the pillow and let the cat knead on that. Something very soft will please the cat because they love soft things.

I use a lap blanket a lot, and usually, you can't feel the claws through the blanket. Declawing won't stop the kneading; it will only cripple the cat.

 

[Caspers Human]

Every cat we owned was treated like a dog...

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear and it sounded like I wasn't speaking as objectively as I should have.

By "treat a cat like a dog" I refer to the fact that cats don't compartmentalize humans the way dogs do. They react to humans in a different way. Because of that, the way to reinforce or discourage behaviors is different, too.

With dogs, you can use a more "classical conditioning" style of training where a stimulus receives a response.
For example, if you say, "Sit!" and the dog obeys, he gets a treat. The behavior is reinforced and, after several reinforcements, the behavior is learned.

Cats CAN respond to classical conditioning but they are more tuned to an "operant conditioning" style where a behavior receives a response which, after repetition, produces a new behavior.
For example, if a cat starts to scratch your furniture, you can use a cat toy to distract the cat and, when the cat plays with the toy instead of scratching furniture, he gets pets and praise. The cat will eventually learn to play with the toy mouse instead of scratching furniture.

Both styles, classical and operant conditioning can work on either, dogs or cats but, because of the way dogs compartmentalize humans where cats don't, the classical style works more easily on dogs than it does cats and vice versa.

In order to teach a cat to do something or stop doing something, you need to figure out what motivates it to exhibit a certain behavior then figure out a way to reinforce a good behavior and/or to discourage a bad one.

In the case of undesirable kneading (AKA: "Milk Treading") we first have to understand that it is a neotenous behavior that's a throwback from when the cat was a kitten, sucking its mother's teat. Second, we need to understand that, when a grown cat milk treads on a human it's because it looks upon that person as it would its mother.

As the cat's "mother figure," what could a person do to discourage this behavior? Redirect it? Substitute a new behavior? Possibly!
Also, a real mother cat that was tired of nursing its kittens might just stand up and walk away.

Substituting a pillow or blanket is one solution. Offering a toy for the cat to play with, instead of kneading on you, is another. Just standing up and walking away, without comment, is another. If these things are done consistently, they will eventually teach the cat to stop kneading.

The main problem with teaching a cat is that you often have to learn how to out think the cat. That's where people who are used to training dogs have trouble.

I grew up with dogs. My father was a dog breeder. I have been around dogs since I was a baby. I, naturally, know how to think like a dog but it took me a while to learn how to think like a cat.

 

[dogperson2cats]

Did you see the earlier comment from Mamanyt1953 about claw caps, which is what I was going to suggest?

How consistent was/is your mom about moving him to that pillow, or did she just give up after trying it a couple times?
She needs to do that Every. Single. Time. repeatedly, over and over, consistently.

Yeah our vet doesn't do that; doesn't bring in enough money for him.

Every time. And if the pillow isn't there, she uses a towel, one of her shirts, part of the blanket, anything she can and he pushes it away or crawls under it to knead her.

 

[dogperson2cats]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear and it sounded like I wasn't speaking as objectively as I should have.

By "treat a cat like a dog" I refer to the fact that cats don't compartmentalize humans the way dogs do. They react to humans in a different way. Because of that, the way to reinforce or discourage behaviors is different, too.

With dogs, you can use a more "classical conditioning" style of training where a stimulus receives a response.
For example, if you say, "Sit!" and the dog obeys, he gets a treat. The behavior is reinforced and, after several reinforcements, the behavior is learned.

Cats CAN respond to classical conditioning but they are more tuned to an "operant conditioning" style where a behavior receives a response which, after repetition, produces a new behavior.
For example, if a cat starts to scratch your furniture, you can use a cat toy to distract the cat and, when the cat plays with the toy instead of scratching furniture, he gets pets and praise. The cat will eventually learn to play with the toy mouse instead of scratching furniture.

Both styles, classical and operant conditioning can work on either, dogs or cats but, because of the way dogs compartmentalize humans where cats don't, the classical style works more easily on dogs than it does cats and vice versa.

In order to teach a cat to do something or stop doing something, you need to figure out what motivates it to exhibit a certain behavior then figure out a way to reinforce a good behavior and/or to discourage a bad one.

In the case of undesirable kneading (AKA: "Milk Treading") we first have to understand that it is a neotenous behavior that's a throwback from when the cat was a kitten, sucking its mother's teat. Second, we need to understand that, when a grown cat milk treads on a human it's because it looks upon that person as it would its mother.

As the cat's "mother figure," what could a person do to discourage this behavior? Redirect it? Substitute a new behavior? Possibly!
Also, a real mother cat that was tired of nursing its kittens might just stand up and walk away.

Substituting a pillow or blanket is one solution. Offering a toy for the cat to play with, instead of kneading on you, is another. Just standing up and walking away, without comment, is another. If these things are done consistently, they will eventually teach the cat to stop kneading.

The main problem with teaching a cat is that you often have to learn how to out think the cat. That's where people who are used to training dogs have trouble.

I grew up with dogs. My father was a dog breeder. I have been around dogs since I was a baby. I, naturally, know how to think like a dog but it took me a while to learn how to think like a cat.

Cats are proving to be too much work to pay off for me. Don't get me wrong, I love the two fleabags. But yeah once my tortie goes I will be happy to never see or own another one. (Also like....15-20 cats in 25 years is enough to drive anybody batty I think.)

I hope mom can figure something out or that her cat gets the hint soon. We already dumped several hundred dollars into him so it'd be a waste if she replaced him so soon. (My mom gets an animal, loves it for a couple months, it's personality changes due to is growing up or because she refused to teach it good habits or train it any, and then she tells me it's 'My problem now' and then gets a new one. And the cycle continues. That is WHY my tortie is mine; her spazzy nature and weird hatred for letting you rest combined with the fact that she is obsessed with me made my mom dislike her.) Jokes on her; my cat is 5 pounds (very tiny due to lack of mothers milk plus was runt of litter anyway and can eat very little due to stomach issues from that and abuse suffered before we got her) while hers is like 25 (solid muscle and he's a large cat anyway), mine doesn't knead hard and knows not to use her nails on me. So I can actually sleep with my cat curled on me.

He's just really insistent on kneading *her*. Like he won't even knead the couch or bed when he's sleeping on it and you're giving him love. To see the way she looks at him would melt you; this is the happiest I've seen her in 18 years (my brother is 18 so...) and while she IS looking for a new cat, she says it's because he was so gentle with the foster kitten we had that 'he needs a little brother to love'. (Honestly she is right; he scruffed the kitten like a mother would and then spent a couple hours grooming it and showing it how to use litter and eat soft food and cried when we found it a home. My cat however tried to eat the kitten because she's a jealous jerk.)

 

[Caspers Human]

It seems like you know how to think like a cat if you put your mind to it.

Now, the trick is to show your mother how to do the same.

I get what you mean about dogs. I grew up with dogs. Dogs are straightforward thinkers. You say, “Sit!” The dog sits... “Good dog!” For a cat, you have to give it a REASON to want to sit. It can be done but it’s not an ”A = B” relationship.

Some people just want to have a lap cat. That’s fine. Others might want a cat to tussle and play. All well and good! However, if you have a playful cat but you want a lap cat, or the other way around, it’s going to take some “cat psychology” to get the cat to behave the way you like.

Thats where the rubber meets the road!

It was hard to get my mom to get used to cats. She’s definitely a dog person. Her husband (my father) was a dog breeder and we never had cats. Dad hated cats. That’s just her experience.

When Mom came to visit my house and Casper came to greet her, she would bend down, loom over the cat and try to pat him on the top of his head like she would do to a dog. The cat would lash out and run away. Understandably so! Mom thought Casper hated her.

Casper is such a sweet cat. He would never hate anybody. He IS kind of skittish around new people, though. It took some time to get my mother to understand how to greet a cat. I had to explain to her that Casper is just hand shy.

I had to show Mom how to put her hand out and let the cat come to her. After several visits, Mom and Casper are friends.

This is just an illustration of how cats behave differently from dogs and the way you need to think when dealing with one versus the other.

Now, the big question. We know that you understand how to think like a cat but how can we get your mother to use cat psychology to help her cat learn?

 

[artiemom]

I will tell you a story about my guy. Geoffrey. When I adopted him in Nov 2018, he NEVER kneaded.. He hid. I think he was abused. As he became more and more confident of me, I noticed that he did not knead normally. Tok him a long time to begin, and it was, instead, "Air" kneading. It was the strangest thing. He would be happy, purring, wanting to knead, but did it in the air!!, watching me the entire time, thinking I would yell at him.

I allowed him to do whatever he wanted, in fact encouraging it. It was clear, that he was punished for normal kneading; poor baby.

Finally, a couple of months ago, Geoffrey began to be so much more comfortable around me, more like a normal car. He started to normal knead. Yes, on my bedspread. I allowed him to do it.

The first time he did it, he looked at me, so hesitantly, expecting a reprimand. I just looked at him, blinked my eyes, and said, "It's ok. Good Boy. Happy Boy. My love"....

Then he proceeded to knead my arms. Knowing how fearful he is of being rebuffed, I suffered the pain, and allowed him to do so.

Now, Geoffrey is back to normal kneading.. not on me... but still does some air kneading...

I am telling you this, because you do not want to go the opposite way with this kitty. My guy, is so loving.. so needy. He was probably not treated the best of ways... but just be careful with how you are trying to train him. Do it with love, and not with surgery or yelling... Your baby sounds like a sensitive kitty. Do not traumatize him in any way... I know how deeply these cats can be hurt. And they remember...

I also am allergic to cats!!! Yes, allergic to them. I get welts from scratches, and mini bites, unless I wash them immediately.

I keep Geoffrey's and before him Artie's claws clipped short. I do them every 3 weeks. Geoffrey is also terrified of having his paws touched... I think that is where the 'NO kneading' treatment from his prior owner, scarred him....another thing to consider..

My first kitty was declawed; before I knew any better.. I always regretted it. She became a biter... and you could not touch her paws.. not at all... .....

Good Luck...

 

[dogperson2cats]

It seems like you know how to think like a cat if you put your mind to it.

Now, the trick is to show your mother how to do the same.

I get what you mean about dogs. I grew up with dogs. Dogs are straightforward thinkers. You say, “Sit!” The dog sits... “Good dog!” For a cat, you have to give it a REASON to want to sit. It can be done but it’s not an ”A = B” relationship.

Some people just want to have a lap cat. That’s fine. Others might want a cat to tussle and play. All well and good! However, if you have a playful cat but you want a lap cat, or the other way around, it’s going to take some “cat psychology” to get the cat to behave the way you like.

Thats where the rubber meets the road!

It was hard to get my mom to get used to cats. She’s definitely a dog person. Her husband (my father) was a dog breeder and we never had cats. Dad hated cats. That’s just her experience.

When Mom came to visit my house and Casper came to greet her, she would bend down, loom over the cat and try to pat him on the top of his head like she would do to a dog. The cat would lash out and run away. Understandably so! Mom thought Casper hated her.

Casper is such a sweet cat. He would never hate anybody. He IS kind of skittish around new people, though. It took some time to get my mother to understand how to greet a cat. I had to explain to her that Casper is just hand shy.

I had to show Mom how to put her hand out and let the cat come to her. After several visits, Mom and Casper are friends.

This is just an illustration of how cats behave differently from dogs and the way you need to think when dealing with one versus the other.

Now, the big question. We know that you understand how to think like a cat but how can we get your mother to use cat psychology to help her cat learn?

My mom is anti-vax, anti-mask and thinks the virus is a bad cold. Not even science can reason with her. She thinks the cat is doing it intentionally, that it's an aggression thing, and is still getting prices on declawing.

I might just get baby booties for his paws while he's inside. See if that helps.