Help/Advice for introductions

[Graham18]

"Thank you for you're kind words!" - You are very welcome.

"We had another hiccup yesterday morning, but this time it was Sapphire who ran up to hit him" - Interesting. I wish I could have seen it. Depending on how the hit went (aggressive, fast, etc) it could tell us a lot. Sounds like some discipline/mom teaching going on. Or it could have been some attempt at play.

"before getting scared by Fluffy trying to lunge back" - Yep. As long as it doesn't escalate too much.

" but again both seemed calm afterwards" - THAT is the KEY. If it was serious they would be acting very differently.

" (Fluffy will start huffing and puffing really loud after but I'm guessing it's from excitement as he also does it when he's playing). " - Could be.

"These little tussles happen so fast that it's hard to see body language" - I know. That is why we tend to watch how they act after so they can tell us what they thought of it. Fast rebound to normal = positive (not an issue).

,"but usually it seems Fluffy will be laying down calm one second and lunge the next." - That could be play or could be defensive. I would have to see it.

"Sapphire usually doesn't change her body language until he tries to lunge at her and her ears go back and the hissing and growling starts." - Yes, as expected to deter the lunge.

"Last night we did better. Didn't let them get too close and have them a special treat of chicken bits. No issues came up " - GREAT!!!! Positive association and positive encounter = confidence and trust building.

They are going to be just fine. Just keep doing what you are doing. It is a process with ups and downs but you and the cats are doing great. Keep up the great work!!!

If I can I will try and get a video of the lunging or at least the body language of the two cats when I've got Fluffy out on the harness

A few posts back I uploaded a video of the two pawing at eachother through a gate but this doesn't happen often anymore. Sapphire either ignores him or she'll sit just outside of his reach and ignore him from there.

I'll link two videos of their common gate interaction now (which are very uneventful). The only thing that is missing is Fluffy doing his little butt wiggle before running to the gate.
Sapphire and Fluffy 2
Sapphire and Fluffy 3
Hopefully the videos work

 

[calicosrspecial]

If I can I will try and get a video of the lunging or at least the body language of the two cats when I've got Fluffy out on the harness

A few posts back I uploaded a video of the two pawing at eachother through a gate but this doesn't happen often anymore. Sapphire either ignores him or she'll sit just outside of his reach and ignore him from there.

I'll link two videos of their common gate interaction now (which are very uneventful). The only thing that is missing is Fluffy doing his little butt wiggle before running to the gate.
Sapphire and Fluffy 2
Sapphire and Fluffy 3
Hopefully the videos work

"If I can I will try and get a video of the lunging or at least the body language of the two cats when I've got Fluffy out on the harness " - Great, that could be helpful.

"A few posts back I uploaded a video of the two pawing at eachother through a gate" - Yes, I saw that. It seemed pretty innocent.

"but this doesn't happen often anymore." - Ok, that is fine.

" Sapphire either ignores him or she'll sit just outside of his reach and ignore him from there." - Great. We like to see that as it shows some acceptance or comfort and confidence.

"I'll link two videos of their common gate interaction now (which are very uneventful). " - The videos are a bit short but the body language looks great. They seem relaxed, confident, comfortable. Definitely a great sign.

"The only thing that is missing is Fluffy doing his little butt wiggle before running to the gate." Awwwwwwww, the vast majority of the time the "butt wiggle" is a sign of play.

If you can get a longer video that would be great. But overall, all sounds really good. Just keep doing what you are doing it is working.

They are just gorgeous and they seem like great cats. LOVE them!!!

 

[Graham18]

"If I can I will try and get a video of the lunging or at least the body language of the two cats when I've got Fluffy out on the harness " - Great, that could be helpful.

"A few posts back I uploaded a video of the two pawing at eachother through a gate" - Yes, I saw that. It seemed pretty innocent.

"but this doesn't happen often anymore." - Ok, that is fine.

" Sapphire either ignores him or she'll sit just outside of his reach and ignore him from there." - Great. We like to see that as it shows some acceptance or comfort and confidence.

"I'll link two videos of their common gate interaction now (which are very uneventful). " - The videos are a bit short but the body language looks great. They seem relaxed, confident, comfortable. Definitely a great sign.

"The only thing that is missing is Fluffy doing his little butt wiggle before running to the gate." Awwwwwwww, the vast majority of the time the "butt wiggle" is a sign of play.

If you can get a longer video that would be great. But overall, all sounds really good. Just keep doing what you are doing it is working.

They are just gorgeous and they seem like great cats. LOVE them!!!

Thank you
I will try and get a longer video. Most of their interactions at the gate are very similar to the short videos but I'll try and get something a bit more interesting.

 

[Graham18]

I managed to take a slightly longer video during treat time tonight. I couldn't bring Fluffy out on his harness unfortunately as he sometimes gets crazy zoomies after he uses his litter box and is too hyper/stimulated to put his harness on so I figured this was the next best thing.

Slight hiss from Sapphire but this is an accurate representation of how treat visits at the gates go.

Usually right after these visits and Fluffy goes to bed, Sapphire gets zoomies and starts running around the house which she rarely ever does at any other time.

 

[rubysmama]

That seemed to go well. Just a little paw touching, but didn't seem aggressive.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I managed to take a slightly longer video during treat time tonight. I couldn't bring Fluffy out on his harness unfortunately as he sometimes gets crazy zoomies after he uses his litter box and is too hyper/stimulated to put his harness on so I figured this was the next best thing.

Slight hiss from Sapphire but this is an accurate representation of how treat visits at the gates go.

Usually right after these visits and Fluffy goes to bed, Sapphire gets zoomies and starts running around the house which she rarely ever does at any other time.

My goodness , they are SO GORGEOUS!!!! Sorry, but in that video it really showed me how gorgeous they are. WOW!!!!

Ok, now to work.

"I couldn't bring Fluffy out on his harness" - That is fine, not an issue at all.

" unfortunately as he sometimes gets crazy zoomies after he uses his litter box" - Yes, they will do that.

" and is too hyper/stimulated to put his harness on so I figured this was the next best thing." - Agreed, a gate session is great.

"Slight hiss from Sapphire but this is an accurate representation of how treat visits at the gates go." - This was FANTASTIC!!!

Body language is relaxed, focus is on treats, they are doing great. At about 37 seconds in he goes towards her and she really doesn't react. He then puts his paw through (gently, not aggressive at all) and she hisses and swats gently, he respects it, and she just calmly walks away. THIS WAS FANTASTIC!!! If they do half as well as this they are doing great.

"Usually right after these visits and Fluffy goes to bed," - Awwwwwwww, great.

" Sapphire gets zoomies and starts running around the house which she rarely ever does at any other time." - Awwwwwww. Maybe she feels the need to burn off some energy (in a positive way). I wonder if she is really enjoying him boing around.

Keep doing what you are doing because it is working!!! I am so excited seeing this interaction. I can't point to one thing I am bothered by. I saw two cats doing great, respecting each other, focused on treats (positive association), having a positive encounter, and the pawing was gentle (almost reaching out to say hi or play) with a gentle response to say "behave" in a nice way. Great body language, relaxed.

They are going to be just fine. Keep doing what you are doing.

Oh, and did I mention how GORGEOUS they are?!?!?!?!?!!? My goodness I love them!!

 

[Graham18]

That seemed to go well. Just a little paw touching, but didn't seem aggressive.

Definitely! Things do get a little more tense when the gate isn't there. I'm hoping things will eventually just click without the gate and I can have interactions like that.

My goodness , they are SO GORGEOUS!!!! Sorry, but in that video it really showed me how gorgeous they are. WOW!!!!

Ok, now to work.

"I couldn't bring Fluffy out on his harness" - That is fine, not an issue at all.

" unfortunately as he sometimes gets crazy zoomies after he uses his litter box" - Yes, they will do that.

" and is too hyper/stimulated to put his harness on so I figured this was the next best thing." - Agreed, a gate session is great.

"Slight hiss from Sapphire but this is an accurate representation of how treat visits at the gates go." - This was FANTASTIC!!!

Body language is relaxed, focus is on treats, they are doing great. At about 37 seconds in he goes towards her and she really doesn't react. He then puts his paw through (gently, not aggressive at all) and she hisses and swats gently, he respects it, and she just calmly walks away. THIS WAS FANTASTIC!!! If they do half as well as this they are doing great.

"Usually right after these visits and Fluffy goes to bed," - Awwwwwwww, great.

" Sapphire gets zoomies and starts running around the house which she rarely ever does at any other time." - Awwwwwww. Maybe she feels the need to burn off some energy (in a positive way). I wonder if she is really enjoying him boing around.

Keep doing what you are doing because it is working!!! I am so excited seeing this interaction. I can't point to one thing I am bothered by. I saw two cats doing great, respecting each other, focused on treats (positive association), having a positive encounter, and the pawing was gentle (almost reaching out to say hi or play) with a gentle response to say "behave" in a nice way. Great body language, relaxed.

They are going to be just fine. Keep doing what you are doing.

Oh, and did I mention how GORGEOUS they are?!?!?!?!?!!? My goodness I love them!!

Thank you! They are my beautiful babies

I did manage to take a video while Fluffy was out with her harness. There is one point when he begins to try and move towards Sapphire and she backs up, hisses at him, growls, etc.
It is pretty standard stuff when he moves towards her (except he was still too far away to lunge).
What was odd today, was that right afterwards, Sapphire ran upstairs crouched really low to the ground and just sat up on the dresser in her room with her tail wrapped around her. She then proceeded to sleep basically all day until dinner time (didn't even eat her breakfast until 6 pm). Possibly just an off day for her as she was fine later last night and this morning.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Definitely! Things do get a little more tense when the gate isn't there. I'm hoping things will eventually just click without the gate and I can have interactions like that.



Thank you! They are my beautiful babies

I did manage to take a video while Fluffy was out with her harness. There is one point when he begins to try and move towards Sapphire and she backs up, hisses at him, growls, etc.
It is pretty standard stuff when he moves towards her (except he was still too far away to lunge).
What was odd today, was that right afterwards, Sapphire ran upstairs crouched really low to the ground and just sat up on the dresser in her room with her tail wrapped around her. She then proceeded to sleep basically all day until dinner time (didn't even eat her breakfast until 6 pm). Possibly just an off day for her as she was fine later last night and this morning.

"Things do get a little more tense when the gate isn't there." - Yes, that always is the case at this point.

" I'm hoping things will eventually just click without the gate and I can have interactions like that." - They will change. Sometimes it is like a lightswitch and sometimes it is a process of 2 steps forward 1 step back. They will be successfully intro'd though.

"Thank you! They are my beautiful babies " - You are welcome. They really are!!!

"I did manage to take a video while Fluffy was out with her harness. " - Ok, I will take a look.

"There is one point when he begins to try and move towards Sapphire and she backs up, hisses at him, growls, etc." - Yes, that is norma.

"It is pretty standard stuff when he moves towards her (except he was still too far away to lunge)." - Ok

"What was odd today, was that right afterwards, Sapphire ran upstairs crouched really low to the ground and just sat up on the dresser in her room with her tail wrapped around her. She then proceeded to sleep basically all day until dinner time (didn't even eat her breakfast until 6 pm)." - Ok, it is a process. She is just telling us she isn't there yet. BUT if he didn't get negative towards her after she ran upstairs and everything was safe, positive etc (which sounds like that was the case) then she actually learns that the fear was greater than the reality. And in time that builds trust and confidence and as a cat gets confidence the less likely they are to attack or be attacked. So I am not at all worried about how she reacted, it is part of the process.

" Possibly just an off day for her as she was fine later last night and this morning." - Ok, great. So she maybe learned her fear wasn't warranted. Great.

Now to the video - Looks great. They look relaxed. He goes towards her she recoils a bit and hisses but his body language looks fine, he gets distracted which is great, she goes for her treat turning her back on him (which if he was really a threat she would never do) she eats her treat, body language looks good, his looks good. He went towards her for fun/play not from aggression so I am not at all bothered by that. And she handled it well so she has trust there just not total yet. But overall, I thought the video was great and tells me there is no doubt they are going to be successfully intro'd (just when is the question, not if).

So was it after this video that she went upstairs?

Keep up the great work!!

 

[Graham18]

"Things do get a little more tense when the gate isn't there." - Yes, that always is the case at this point.

" I'm hoping things will eventually just click without the gate and I can have interactions like that." - They will change. Sometimes it is like a lightswitch and sometimes it is a process of 2 steps forward 1 step back. They will be successfully intro'd though.

"Thank you! They are my beautiful babies " - You are welcome. They really are!!!

"I did manage to take a video while Fluffy was out with her harness. " - Ok, I will take a look.

"There is one point when he begins to try and move towards Sapphire and she backs up, hisses at him, growls, etc." - Yes, that is norma.

"It is pretty standard stuff when he moves towards her (except he was still too far away to lunge)." - Ok

"What was odd today, was that right afterwards, Sapphire ran upstairs crouched really low to the ground and just sat up on the dresser in her room with her tail wrapped around her. She then proceeded to sleep basically all day until dinner time (didn't even eat her breakfast until 6 pm)." - Ok, it is a process. She is just telling us she isn't there yet. BUT if he didn't get negative towards her after she ran upstairs and everything was safe, positive etc (which sounds like that was the case) then she actually learns that the fear was greater than the reality. And in time that builds trust and confidence and as a cat gets confidence the less likely they are to attack or be attacked. So I am not at all worried about how she reacted, it is part of the process.

" Possibly just an off day for her as she was fine later last night and this morning." - Ok, great. So she maybe learned her fear wasn't warranted. Great.

Now to the video - Looks great. They look relaxed. He goes towards her she recoils a bit and hisses but his body language looks fine, he gets distracted which is great, she goes for her treat turning her back on him (which if he was really a threat she would never do) she eats her treat, body language looks good, his looks good. He went towards her for fun/play not from aggression so I am not at all bothered by that. And she handled it well so she has trust there just not total yet. But overall, I thought the video was great and tells me there is no doubt they are going to be successfully intro'd (just when is the question, not if).

So was it after this video that she went upstairs?

Keep up the great work!!

I did bring him further into the room after the video was taken to look out the window (there's a suction cupped perch there that Fluffy loves and Sapphire never uses, she prefers the various cat trees). He jumped down and laid on the floor watching her from about ten feet away and she sat in the cat tree that you can see behind her in the video. They both just sat/laid watching eachother and then Sapphire ran upstairs (not exactly a run, more of a cautious walk/slink).
When I brought Fluffy upstairs to put him in our bedroom a little while later, Sapphire did come up to his gate to sniff him and give him a few slaps when he would try and paw through. I'm not overly concerned with her as she does sometimes have off days where she seems very anxious.

I'm just waiting for the day when she can hopefully get close to him without him trying to lunge at her to play/chase.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I did bring him further into the room after the video was taken to look out the window (there's a suction cupped perch there that Fluffy loves and Sapphire never uses, she prefers the various cat trees). He jumped down and laid on the floor watching her from about ten feet away and she sat in the cat tree that you can see behind her in the video. They both just sat/laid watching eachother and then Sapphire ran upstairs (not exactly a run, more of a cautious walk/slink).
When I brought Fluffy upstairs to put him in our bedroom a little while later, Sapphire did come up to his gate to sniff him and give him a few slaps when he would try and paw through. I'm not overly concerned with her as she does sometimes have off days where she seems very anxious.

I'm just waiting for the day when she can hopefully get close to him without him trying to lunge at her to play/chase.

"I did bring him further into the room after the video was taken to look out the window (there's a suction cupped perch there that Fluffy loves and Sapphire never uses, she prefers the various cat trees)." - Great

"He jumped down and laid on the floor watching her from about ten feet away and she sat in the cat tree that you can see behind her in the video. " - Awwwwwwwww

"They both just sat/laid watching eachother and then Sapphire ran upstairs (not exactly a run, more of a cautious walk/slink)." - Ahhhhhh, ok. When they are looking at each other reassure them, talk t them lovingly and confidently. If you can get them to look at you or away from the other cat that is really good.


"When I brought Fluffy upstairs to put him in our bedroom a little while later, Sapphire did come up to his gate to sniff him and give him a few slaps when he would try and paw through." - OK, great. Back to normal then it seems, correct?

"I'm not overly concerned with her as she does sometimes have off days where she seems very anxious." - Great. I agree, I am not worried either though you know her best. But just what I am reading I am not worried either but great to know you are not either!!

"I'm just waiting for the day when she can hopefully get close to him without him trying to lunge at her to play/chase." - It will happen BUT it is hard to curb the desire to play. As long as it is innocent she'll learn to "deal" with his actions.

They are doing great, keep up the great work!!

 

[Graham18]

"I did bring him further into the room after the video was taken to look out the window (there's a suction cupped perch there that Fluffy loves and Sapphire never uses, she prefers the various cat trees)." - Great

"He jumped down and laid on the floor watching her from about ten feet away and she sat in the cat tree that you can see behind her in the video. " - Awwwwwwwww

"They both just sat/laid watching eachother and then Sapphire ran upstairs (not exactly a run, more of a cautious walk/slink)." - Ahhhhhh, ok. When they are looking at each other reassure them, talk t them lovingly and confidently. If you can get them to look at you or away from the other cat that is really good.


"When I brought Fluffy upstairs to put him in our bedroom a little while later, Sapphire did come up to his gate to sniff him and give him a few slaps when he would try and paw through." - OK, great. Back to normal then it seems, correct?

"I'm not overly concerned with her as she does sometimes have off days where she seems very anxious." - Great. I agree, I am not worried either though you know her best. But just what I am reading I am not worried either but great to know you are not either!!

"I'm just waiting for the day when she can hopefully get close to him without him trying to lunge at her to play/chase." - It will happen BUT it is hard to curb the desire to play. As long as it is innocent she'll learn to "deal" with his actions.

They are doing great, keep up the great work!!

It seems she went back to normal fairly quickly before going to sleep. Her normal changes minute by minute. In the last 20 minutes alone, she went from being curled up beside me on the couch, to sitting in a defensive/anxious posture on the top of her cat tree when she heard Fluffy meowing upstairs (even though he never stops meowing except at night), then to sitting right outside of his gate eating treats with him with no issues. She's a very strange cat.

I've also been trying new toys with Fluffy and things to keep him busy (like putting bits of kibble in an egg carton for him to get out. I'm thinking I may get more interactive toys for him to keep him entertained when he's by himself.

 

[calicosrspecial]

It seems she went back to normal fairly quickly before going to sleep. Her normal changes minute by minute. In the last 20 minutes alone, she went from being curled up beside me on the couch, to sitting in a defensive/anxious posture on the top of her cat tree when she heard Fluffy meowing upstairs (even though he never stops meowing except at night), then to sitting right outside of his gate eating treats with him with no issues. She's a very strange cat.

I've also been trying new toys with Fluffy and things to keep him busy (like putting bits of kibble in an egg carton for him to get out. I'm thinking I may get more interactive toys for him to keep him entertained when he's by himself.

"It seems she went back to normal fairly quickly before going to sleep." - Great. Fast rebound = positive. The encounter wasn't that bad.

" Her normal changes minute by minute. In the last 20 minutes alone, she went from being curled up beside me on the couch, to sitting in a defensive/anxious posture on the top of her cat tree when she heard Fluffy meowing upstairs (even though he never stops meowing except at night), " - That is actually common and normal. The meows can communicate different things so there might have been a bit more "something" in that meow (anxiety, energy, etc). Cats understand it when we don't really. BUT she got defensive, went on her cat tree and nothing bad happened. So it actually builds trust and confidence in the end. Not an issue, just tells us we have a little more work to do (which may end up just being time with the existing work).

"then to sitting right outside of his gate eating treats with him with no issues. " - Exactly. And that supports my thinking above. "He isn't really that bad so I can have treats next to him".

"She's a very strange cat." - Hahahahaha, no, she is just a normal cat. Cats are territorial so when a potential threat comes into their territory they are rightly cautious until they can build that trust.

"I've also been trying new toys with Fluffy and things to keep him busy (like putting bits of kibble in an egg carton for him to get out. I'm thinking I may get more interactive toys for him to keep him entertained when he's by himself." - That is great. Play builds confidence and a confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked.

They are going to be just fine. Keep up the great work.

 

[Graham18]

No major updates today. Sapphire was napping this morning after breakfast when I brought Fluffy out. When I moved him upstairs they had some treats at the gate nose to nose with no issues.

Brought Fluffy out tonight on his harness and he's definitely learning to move better in it although I may need to move up a size as it seems to be getting a bit tight. Sapphire was up on her cat tree staring at him and when he saw her his tail started thrashing back and forth wildly but that is nothing new when he sees her. Managed to get her to come down for treats and they even got within about 3 feet of eachother. Shortly after at that point sapphire jumped up on an chair in the corner and wrapped her tail around herself. I noticed Fluffy looked like he was getting in a pounce/chase type position (butt up a bit and hind legs preparing to launch him forward), so brought him into his room. Almost immediately after I set the baby gates up at his room, Sapphire walked over, hissed at him and then walked away so she must not have been too scared.

One thing I'm noticing is that when he is out on his harness with Sapphire he is only distractable about 50% of the time with treats, maybe a bit more but other times he only cares about her.

Another fear I have is that he sometimes tends to get a bit irritated if he doesn't get his way. For example, he'll start to bite if I'm holding him and he sees Sapphire and wants to go down to her. I'm worried that no matter how much she tries to tell him she doesn't want to play, he'll still continue to chase/lunge/pounce on her and get angry which will then lead to a fight. Am I justified in this thinking or still paranoid from their first chase/fight a few months ago?

 

[rubysmama]

Another fear I have is that he sometimes tends to get a bit irritated if he doesn't get his way. For example, he'll start to bite if I'm holding him and he sees Sapphire and wants to go down to her. I'm worried that no matter how much she tries to tell him she doesn't want to play, he'll still continue to chase/lunge/pounce on her and get angry which will then lead to a fight. Am I justified in this thinking or still paranoid from their first chase/fight a few months ago?

I don't think you're paranoid worrying that another fight could occur. I'm sure I'd feel the same way. Wish I could offer more comments on your situation, but I've never had more than 1 cat at a time, so have no personal experience with introducing cats. Things do seem to be improving between Sapphire and Fluffy, albeit slowly.

 

[Furmama22]

Just wanted to say hello and let you know I'm reading your thread with interest! I'm going through the same thing with my cats and am working on my own intro process ("Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost"). I'm learning from all the great advice and thoughts and info here, so thank you.

And keep up your great work! I know it's hard. And I totally sympathize with the fear of the fight/chase. Kudos to you for all of your efforts to give these kitties a good life!

 

[calicosrspecial]

No major updates today. Sapphire was napping this morning after breakfast when I brought Fluffy out. When I moved him upstairs they had some treats at the gate nose to nose with no issues.

Brought Fluffy out tonight on his harness and he's definitely learning to move better in it although I may need to move up a size as it seems to be getting a bit tight. Sapphire was up on her cat tree staring at him and when he saw her his tail started thrashing back and forth wildly but that is nothing new when he sees her. Managed to get her to come down for treats and they even got within about 3 feet of eachother. Shortly after at that point sapphire jumped up on an chair in the corner and wrapped her tail around herself. I noticed Fluffy looked like he was getting in a pounce/chase type position (butt up a bit and hind legs preparing to launch him forward), so brought him into his room. Almost immediately after I set the baby gates up at his room, Sapphire walked over, hissed at him and then walked away so she must not have been too scared.

One thing I'm noticing is that when he is out on his harness with Sapphire he is only distractable about 50% of the time with treats, maybe a bit more but other times he only cares about her.

Another fear I have is that he sometimes tends to get a bit irritated if he doesn't get his way. For example, he'll start to bite if I'm holding him and he sees Sapphire and wants to go down to her. I'm worried that no matter how much she tries to tell him she doesn't want to play, he'll still continue to chase/lunge/pounce on her and get angry which will then lead to a fight. Am I justified in this thinking or still paranoid from their first chase/fight a few months ago?

"No major updates today." - Great

" Sapphire was napping this morning after breakfast when I brought Fluffy out. When I moved him upstairs they had some treats at the gate nose to nose with no issues." - Perfect!!!

"Brought Fluffy out tonight on his harness and he's definitely learning to move better in it" - Great. Cats have to adjust so that is great to hear he is adjusting.

" although I may need to move up a size as it seems to be getting a bit tight." - He is eating well.

"Sapphire was up on her cat tree staring at him and when he saw her his tail started thrashing back and forth wildly but that is nothing new when he sees her." - Awwwww, that could just mean excitement. That is not always negative. Other actions need to happen to determine if it was negative.

"Managed to get her to come down for treats and they even got within about 3 feet of eachother. " - THAT is a GREAT step forward. The fact she trusted to come towards him. Fantastic!!!

How did Fluffy act when she came towards him?

"Shortly after at that point sapphire jumped up on an chair in the corner and wrapped her tail around herself." - Totally fine. Going high (on a chair) helps give some confidence.

"I noticed Fluffy looked like he was getting in a pounce/chase type position (butt up a bit and hind legs preparing to launch him forward)," - OK, was it kinda play looking? Any negative body language?

"so brought him into his room." - Ok

" Almost immediately after I set the baby gates up at his room, Sapphire walked over, hissed at him and then walked away " - Hahahaha, she tried to teach him some manners. How sweet.

"so she must not have been too scared." - Nope!!! Pretty good!!

"One thing I'm noticing is that when he is out on his harness with Sapphire he is only distractable about 50% of the time with treats, maybe a bit more but other times he only cares about her." - That is normal and fine. Cats tend to find other cats more interesting (there is a novelty aspect to another cat). So it really depends on the body language. If there is negative body language with both cats then it is something we need t work on and then if there are lingering issues (hiding, avoiding, not eating etc) then we have to work on some things. BUT given all I am reading I am not at all bothered by that as it is not supported by other negative behavior. I think he is just excited to have another cat (to eventually try to play with).

"Another fear I have is that he sometimes tends to get a bit irritated if he doesn't get his way." - Ok, that does happen.

" For example, he'll start to bite if I'm holding him and he sees Sapphire and wants to go down to her." - Yes. Cats do not like to be restrained and some do use their teeth. Is he breaking the skin? I tend to try to reduce or avoid any chance of getting into a situation like that if at all possible. So, getting him used to being held is great but make sure he is not around her. But some cats do not even like to be held, picked up so you always have to be careful.

When a cat bites I tend to show a sad/disappointed/hurt emotion. Since cats take on human emotions that often (but not always) helps them realize they hurt you (and cats typically do not want to hurt the person that gives them food).

"I'm worried that no matter how much she tries to tell him she doesn't want to play, he'll still continue to chase/lunge/pounce on her" - Yes, often we do worry. And cats often do want to play (chase, pounce, etc). But cats take on our emotions so the more stressed/worried e are the more on edge they can be. She needs to do her part as well. Our job is really to get them to respect each other so they know the line not to cross (actually hurting the other cat). Cats do like to play rough so they do need to work it out a bit. BUT we have to help the cat feel the other cat is positive and good to have around so they chose not to hurt the other one.

"and get angry which will then lead to a fight. " - Well there are fights and their are FIGHTS (blood, injuries, etc). Cats can have "fights" and it not lead to injury, negatives. As we progress hopefully we will know their base of trust and respect is strong that no one crosses the like to FIGHTS. My sense (and only a guess right now) is neither cat is vicious and wants to hurt the other one BUT we'll know more later. One can never be 100% sure but I just see the risk yet (and we will not put them in a position until we know more.

I personally would not worry about this at this point.

"Am I justified in this thinking" - Of course you are justified since we love them and don't want any harm to come to them. BUT I think it is too early to worry because right now they will not be able to get to each other AND all the information I am reading is a good deal of respect on their part towards each other. Usually if cats are going to really FIGHT there are a lot of signs. I am not seeing those. BUT right now I would not have them together without a barrier (or harness). But we wil probably soon and I'll learn more and hopefully we will make more progress.

I think they are doing great so far and as I spend more time with them (virtually) I will get a better sense. But I would be surprised if there are real issues with them. What you are going through is the normal process of introducing cats. Actually, they are doing great in my opinion.

" or still paranoid from their first chase/fight a few months ago? " - I can't remember reading about that. Can you summarize it? Were there any injuries? Blood? How did they act after? A lot of hiding? Avoiding? Walking low to the ground? Not eating? Not using the litter box? Etc?

Is the fight you mention this one from your first post? -
I followed slow introduction steps as Sapphire was very upset knowing there was another cat in the house and would hiss at the smell of Fluffy on my hand for about a week and after that progressively got better to the point where they could see eachother through baby gates without any issues after about a month of being seperate. At that point I tried to do a face to face introduction and Sapphire immediately ran away and Fluffy chased after her (I believe he thought she was playing) and one thing led to another and they had a small fight, Sapphire trying to defend herself and Fluffy then trying to defend himself realising she wasn't playing with him.

The face to face intro was too soon. :/ Which everyone typically rushed (it is the biggest mistake I see). IF that is the "fight" that was really nothing (supported by the progress you have made). When a cat runs away it triggers a "prey" instinct and the other cat will chase. Then it can escalate. Was there blood, injuries in that fight?

You have to understand, at that point they didn't have the trust in each other so they don't know how bad it might get and respond accordingly. So imagine if you have a physical altercation with a loved family member vs a stranger. There would be no holding back on the stranger but restraint towards the family member. Same with cats, Fluffy wasn't yet a trusted family member at that point. Our goal in intros is to build that trust so that there is no need to fear the other cat will hurt them.

You are going through all the emotions people go through when introducing cats. The doubt, the fear, the ups and downs, etc. Once you get through it it will all become clear and make sense. That it is just a process. Think of it as dating or moving in with a roommate etc. It just takes some time to learn to trust, etc.

Don't worry, we'll get them intro'd successfully. I am not sure when but I know they will be.

 

[Graham18]

Just wanted to say hello and let you know I'm reading your thread with interest! I'm going through the same thing with my cats and am working on my own intro process ("Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost"). I'm learning from all the great advice and thoughts and info here, so thank you.

And keep up your great work! I know it's hard. And I totally sympathize with the fear of the fight/chase. Kudos to you for all of your efforts to give these kitties a good life!

Hello! I have definitely been following your post as well once I realized how similar the situations we are in are and I've meant to say hello!

You seem like you're making great progress and I've definitely learned a few things from reading your posts and it's helped put my mind at ease knowing that I'm not alone with the slow intros

Keep it up and good luck with your kitties

"No major updates today." - Great

" Sapphire was napping this morning after breakfast when I brought Fluffy out. When I moved him upstairs they had some treats at the gate nose to nose with no issues." - Perfect!!!

"Brought Fluffy out tonight on his harness and he's definitely learning to move better in it" - Great. Cats have to adjust so that is great to hear he is adjusting.

" although I may need to move up a size as it seems to be getting a bit tight." - He is eating well.

"Sapphire was up on her cat tree staring at him and when he saw her his tail started thrashing back and forth wildly but that is nothing new when he sees her." - Awwwww, that could just mean excitement. That is not always negative. Other actions need to happen to determine if it was negative.

"Managed to get her to come down for treats and they even got within about 3 feet of eachother. " - THAT is a GREAT step forward. The fact she trusted to come towards him. Fantastic!!!

How did Fluffy act when she came towards him?

"Shortly after at that point sapphire jumped up on an chair in the corner and wrapped her tail around herself." - Totally fine. Going high (on a chair) helps give some confidence.

"I noticed Fluffy looked like he was getting in a pounce/chase type position (butt up a bit and hind legs preparing to launch him forward)," - OK, was it kinda play looking? Any negative body language?

"so brought him into his room." - Ok

" Almost immediately after I set the baby gates up at his room, Sapphire walked over, hissed at him and then walked away " - Hahahaha, she tried to teach him some manners. How sweet.

"so she must not have been too scared." - Nope!!! Pretty good!!

"One thing I'm noticing is that when he is out on his harness with Sapphire he is only distractable about 50% of the time with treats, maybe a bit more but other times he only cares about her." - That is normal and fine. Cats tend to find other cats more interesting (there is a novelty aspect to another cat). So it really depends on the body language. If there is negative body language with both cats then it is something we need t work on and then if there are lingering issues (hiding, avoiding, not eating etc) then we have to work on some things. BUT given all I am reading I am not at all bothered by that as it is not supported by other negative behavior. I think he is just excited to have another cat (to eventually try to play with).

"Another fear I have is that he sometimes tends to get a bit irritated if he doesn't get his way." - Ok, that does happen.

" For example, he'll start to bite if I'm holding him and he sees Sapphire and wants to go down to her." - Yes. Cats do not like to be restrained and some do use their teeth. Is he breaking the skin? I tend to try to reduce or avoid any chance of getting into a situation like that if at all possible. So, getting him used to being held is great but make sure he is not around her. But some cats do not even like to be held, picked up so you always have to be careful.

When a cat bites I tend to show a sad/disappointed/hurt emotion. Since cats take on human emotions that often (but not always) helps them realize they hurt you (and cats typically do not want to hurt the person that gives them food).

"I'm worried that no matter how much she tries to tell him she doesn't want to play, he'll still continue to chase/lunge/pounce on her" - Yes, often we do worry. And cats often do want to play (chase, pounce, etc). But cats take on our emotions so the more stressed/worried e are the more on edge they can be. She needs to do her part as well. Our job is really to get them to respect each other so they know the line not to cross (actually hurting the other cat). Cats do like to play rough so they do need to work it out a bit. BUT we have to help the cat feel the other cat is positive and good to have around so they chose not to hurt the other one.

"and get angry which will then lead to a fight. " - Well there are fights and their are FIGHTS (blood, injuries, etc). Cats can have "fights" and it not lead to injury, negatives. As we progress hopefully we will know their base of trust and respect is strong that no one crosses the like to FIGHTS. My sense (and only a guess right now) is neither cat is vicious and wants to hurt the other one BUT we'll know more later. One can never be 100% sure but I just see the risk yet (and we will not put them in a position until we know more.

I personally would not worry about this at this point.

"Am I justified in this thinking" - Of course you are justified since we love them and don't want any harm to come to them. BUT I think it is too early to worry because right now they will not be able to get to each other AND all the information I am reading is a good deal of respect on their part towards each other. Usually if cats are going to really FIGHT there are a lot of signs. I am not seeing those. BUT right now I would not have them together without a barrier (or harness). But we wil probably soon and I'll learn more and hopefully we will make more progress.

I think they are doing great so far and as I spend more time with them (virtually) I will get a better sense. But I would be surprised if there are real issues with them. What you are going through is the normal process of introducing cats. Actually, they are doing great in my opinion.

" or still paranoid from their first chase/fight a few months ago? " - I can't remember reading about that. Can you summarize it? Were there any injuries? Blood? How did they act after? A lot of hiding? Avoiding? Walking low to the ground? Not eating? Not using the litter box? Etc?

Is the fight you mention this one from your first post? -
I followed slow introduction steps as Sapphire was very upset knowing there was another cat in the house and would hiss at the smell of Fluffy on my hand for about a week and after that progressively got better to the point where they could see eachother through baby gates without any issues after about a month of being seperate. At that point I tried to do a face to face introduction and Sapphire immediately ran away and Fluffy chased after her (I believe he thought she was playing) and one thing led to another and they had a small fight, Sapphire trying to defend herself and Fluffy then trying to defend himself realising she wasn't playing with him.

The face to face intro was too soon. :/ Which everyone typically rushed (it is the biggest mistake I see). IF that is the "fight" that was really nothing (supported by the progress you have made). When a cat runs away it triggers a "prey" instinct and the other cat will chase. Then it can escalate. Was there blood, injuries in that fight?

You have to understand, at that point they didn't have the trust in each other so they don't know how bad it might get and respond accordingly. So imagine if you have a physical altercation with a loved family member vs a stranger. There would be no holding back on the stranger but restraint towards the family member. Same with cats, Fluffy wasn't yet a trusted family member at that point. Our goal in intros is to build that trust so that there is no need to fear the other cat will hurt them.

You are going through all the emotions people go through when introducing cats. The doubt, the fear, the ups and downs, etc. Once you get through it it will all become clear and make sense. That it is just a process. Think of it as dating or moving in with a roommate etc. It just takes some time to learn to trust, etc.

Don't worry, we'll get them intro'd successfully. I am not sure when but I know they will be.

Thank you for all of the answers and responses to everything, they are very helpful and definitely help keep my mind at ease

I apologize if I miss answering any of your questions.
First, I don't believe I really see much in terms of negative body language, but I'm just going based on what I've read as negative. Ears always seem to stay forward although if or when Fluffy goes towards Sapphire a bit too close she'll throw her ears back as she hisses at him. Fluffy will usually lay down, sometimes on his side, other times directly facing her ready to lunge if she gets close and usually it is just the tail thrashing but nothing else out of the ordinary. Both cats will usually have quite dilated pupils which I also see when they are just playful so I haven't been concerned about it.
She still generally reacts the same way when he moves towards her. If there is some distance she'll give a little hiss or growl and when it's a bit closer it'll be a louder hiss and she'll back away. I do my best to try and remember two weeks ago when she would take off immediately as soon as he came out.
In regards to Fluffy's biting, he's never broken skin. Sometimes he just leaves little teeth marks but he's improved quite a bit in the last few months. He used to constantly go after feets, hands, legs, etc. Now it happens at specific times such as when he is really stimulated (after he uses the litter box), or sometimes when he is being held but usually only when he sees Sapphire and wants to go down. He'll also try and bite sometimes when I'm putting on or taking off his harness, but that is usually at night after I've been playing with him for a bit and he's a bit stimulated. In the mornings he could care less. I'll usually tell him no and he'll let go within a few seconds.

Now onto the fight. I will admit it was way too soon. I had just been following generic advice from various online sources and friends with multiple cats and because I had never seen any issues with Fluffy from just behind gates, I assumed there may have been some swatting but not a full on chase. There was no blood or fur afterwards. The fight itself was a lot of rolling around and shrieking. Sapphire managed to get away and run downstairs to hide behind my chest freezer and Fluffy did look scared as he had his back arched up, tail fluffed, etc. There may have also been some hissing on his part out of fear, but seeing how far they've come now, I've realized I moved too fast at first.

I'm not extremely worried about Fluffy being outright aggressive as he was in a community room with other cats at the rescue and I was told he was very calm and gentle with them so I truely believe he really just wants to play rough with Sapphire as he is a very young energetic boy (I was told he may be part Burmese but I don't really know much about the breed to know if that would make a difference). I'm also trying to work out what his hissing means as he will just hiss randomly. He will sometimes hiss at his toys when he's playing and I've also seen him hiss at his water bowl and when I take him out into the backyard sometimes he will just let out a loud hiss for a few seconds for no apparent reason. I don't know if he's ever hissed at sapphire. Sometimes he lets out a sound that sounds like a hiss but I think it just a loud huff or sigh.

On a side note, there were no major developments today. I brought him out this morning and he did walk towards Sapphire slowly and she gave a small hiss but didn't back up or get her paw ready to hit him. Tonight was the same as last night. She came down from the tree for some treats before jumping up on the chair (I say chair but it is in fact two folded up floor mattresses stacked so it's only about two feet high) and once she was up there crouched low and wrapped her tail around herself. I don't know if I've mentioned it, but in situations where they are out together, Sapphire does not like to be given pets. She won't hiss at me or my partner but she'll let out an unhappy meow or trill. As of right now she is back to normal playing with a toy in her tree and licking my cheek even though she can hear Fluffy crying in his room because he wants attention.

I'm so sorry if I'm rambling and I apologize if I missed any of your questions, it was a very long day at work!

Thank you again for the help and advice!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hello! I have definitely been following your post as well once I realized how similar the situations we are in are and I've meant to say hello!

You seem like you're making great progress and I've definitely learned a few things from reading your posts and it's helped put my mind at ease knowing that I'm not alone with the slow intros

Keep it up and good luck with your kitties


Thank you for all of the answers and responses to everything, they are very helpful and definitely help keep my mind at ease

I apologize if I miss answering any of your questions.
First, I don't believe I really see much in terms of negative body language, but I'm just going based on what I've read as negative. Ears always seem to stay forward although if or when Fluffy goes towards Sapphire a bit too close she'll throw her ears back as she hisses at him. Fluffy will usually lay down, sometimes on his side, other times directly facing her ready to lunge if she gets close and usually it is just the tail thrashing but nothing else out of the ordinary. Both cats will usually have quite dilated pupils which I also see when they are just playful so I haven't been concerned about it.
She still generally reacts the same way when he moves towards her. If there is some distance she'll give a little hiss or growl and when it's a bit closer it'll be a louder hiss and she'll back away. I do my best to try and remember two weeks ago when she would take off immediately as soon as he came out.
In regards to Fluffy's biting, he's never broken skin. Sometimes he just leaves little teeth marks but he's improved quite a bit in the last few months. He used to constantly go after feets, hands, legs, etc. Now it happens at specific times such as when he is really stimulated (after he uses the litter box), or sometimes when he is being held but usually only when he sees Sapphire and wants to go down. He'll also try and bite sometimes when I'm putting on or taking off his harness, but that is usually at night after I've been playing with him for a bit and he's a bit stimulated. In the mornings he could care less. I'll usually tell him no and he'll let go within a few seconds.

Now onto the fight. I will admit it was way too soon. I had just been following generic advice from various online sources and friends with multiple cats and because I had never seen any issues with Fluffy from just behind gates, I assumed there may have been some swatting but not a full on chase. There was no blood or fur afterwards. The fight itself was a lot of rolling around and shrieking. Sapphire managed to get away and run downstairs to hide behind my chest freezer and Fluffy did look scared as he had his back arched up, tail fluffed, etc. There may have also been some hissing on his part out of fear, but seeing how far they've come now, I've realized I moved too fast at first.

I'm not extremely worried about Fluffy being outright aggressive as he was in a community room with other cats at the rescue and I was told he was very calm and gentle with them so I truely believe he really just wants to play rough with Sapphire as he is a very young energetic boy (I was told he may be part Burmese but I don't really know much about the breed to know if that would make a difference). I'm also trying to work out what his hissing means as he will just hiss randomly. He will sometimes hiss at his toys when he's playing and I've also seen him hiss at his water bowl and when I take him out into the backyard sometimes he will just let out a loud hiss for a few seconds for no apparent reason. I don't know if he's ever hissed at sapphire. Sometimes he lets out a sound that sounds like a hiss but I think it just a loud huff or sigh.

On a side note, there were no major developments today. I brought him out this morning and he did walk towards Sapphire slowly and she gave a small hiss but didn't back up or get her paw ready to hit him. Tonight was the same as last night. She came down from the tree for some treats before jumping up on the chair (I say chair but it is in fact two folded up floor mattresses stacked so it's only about two feet high) and once she was up there crouched low and wrapped her tail around herself. I don't know if I've mentioned it, but in situations where they are out together, Sapphire does not like to be given pets. She won't hiss at me or my partner but she'll let out an unhappy meow or trill. As of right now she is back to normal playing with a toy in her tree and licking my cheek even though she can hear Fluffy crying in his room because he wants attention.

I'm so sorry if I'm rambling and I apologize if I missed any of your questions, it was a very long day at work!

Thank you again for the help and advice!

"Thank you for all of the answers and responses to everything, they are very helpful and definitely help keep my mind at ease " - You are very welcome, I hope they help.

"I apologize if I miss answering any of your questions." - No need to apologize, I will definitely follow up if I have a question.

"First, I don't believe I really see much in terms of negative body language," - Great

" but I'm just going based on what I've read as negative." - Yes, that is the typical. Ears, back, dilated eyes, hair up, big tail, low to the ground, etc. Of course not all those are always negative so context is important.

"Ears always seem to stay forward" - Great

" although if or when Fluffy goes towards Sapphire a bit too close she'll throw her ears back as she hisses at him." - Exactly, that is normal and defensive. I worry more when it is offensive. AND if it deters any further negativity it is positive as it avoids a negative encounter.

" Fluffy will usually lay down, sometimes on his side," - That is actually positive as it is submissive. No cat in fear would be vulnerable like that. If they show their belly it is a sign of trust.

"other times directly facing her ready to lunge if she gets close and usually it is just the tail thrashing but nothing else out of the ordinary." - Yes, and that can be play. A thrashing tail can be negative and fine. It sounds like Fluffy has a fine, play tail action.

"Both cats will usually have quite dilated pupils which I also see when they are just playful so I haven't been concerned about it." - Exactly. Dilated pupils can be fine or a worry. Again, supporting evidence to support whichever is important.

"She still generally reacts the same way when he moves towards her. If there is some distance she'll give a little hiss or growl and when it's a bit closer it'll be a louder hiss and she'll back away." - Yes, that is normal. And just tells us she still doesn't totally trust him yet. BUT if it doesn't escalate and it ends there then it is actually positive.

"I do my best to try and remember two weeks ago when she would take off immediately as soon as he came out." - Absolutely, that is fine.

"In regards to Fluffy's biting, he's never broken skin." - Great. He knows he doesn't want to hurt you. He is intentionally holding back (because if a cat wants to hurt they will).

"Sometimes he just leaves little teeth marks" - Yes, probably a "knock it off" in a way.

" but he's improved quite a bit in the last few months." - GREAT!!

" He used to constantly go after feets, hands, legs, etc." - Yes, because they tend to be fun (like a toy) moving, etc

" Now it happens at specific times such as when he is really stimulated (after he uses the litter box)," - Yes, when they are overstimulated just let them decompress a bit and be careful.

" or sometimes when he is being held but usually only when he sees Sapphire and wants to go down." - Yes, that is his way of saying "let me go to play with her".

" He'll also try and bite sometimes when I'm putting on or taking off his harness, but that is usually at night after I've been playing with him for a bit and he's a bit stimulated." - Ahhhhhh, yes, overstimulated again. Sometimes when they don't want that limitation they let us know.

"In the mornings he could care less." - That is good.

" I'll usually tell him no and he'll let go within a few seconds." - FANTASTIC!!

"Now onto the fight. I will admit it was way too soon." - Not a big deal, they are doing great.

"I had just been following generic advice from various online sources and friends with multiple cats and because I had never seen any issues with Fluffy from just behind gates, " - Yes, that is common.

"I assumed there may have been some swatting but not a full on chase." - Ok

" There was no blood or fur afterwards. " - GREAT!!!! That tells me they didn't want to hurt each other. Excellent!!!

"The fight itself was a lot of rolling around and shrieking." - Yes, it can sound horrific. It is shocking when you see it.

"Sapphire managed to get away and run downstairs to hide behind my chest freezer and Fluffy did look scared as he had his back arched up, tail fluffed, etc. There may have also been some hissing on his part out of fear, " - Yes, that is actually good. They didn;t really mean to get into it, it just happened and escalated as it often does. They don't know and trust the other cat so don't know how much danger there might be. BUT it sounds like neither one wanted to hurt each other which is great.

"but seeing how far they've come now," - Tells us neither wants to hurt the other cat and that the "fight" was not a big deal.

"I've realized I moved too fast at first." - Yes but not an issue.

"I'm not extremely worried about Fluffy being outright aggressive as he was in a community room with other cats at the rescue and I was told he was very calm and gentle with them" - Great, I think the information you have written supports that conclusion.

" so I truely believe he really just wants to play rough with Sapphire as he is a very young energetic boy" - Exactly. That is my sense.

" (I was told he may be part Burmese but I don't really know much about the breed to know if that would make a difference)." - I don;t know either.

" I'm also trying to work out what his hissing means as he will just hiss randomly. He will sometimes hiss at his toys when he's playing and I've also seen him hiss at his water bowl and when I take him out into the backyard sometimes he will just let out a loud hiss for a few seconds for no apparent reason. I don't know if he's ever hissed at sapphire. Sometimes he lets out a sound that sounds like a hiss but I think it just a loud huff or sigh." - Hahahaha, yes, they do that sometimes. Hissing is communication so if it is not supported by anything else I don't worry about it. Some cats communicate with a hiss sometimes>

"On a side note, there were no major developments today." - Great

" I brought him out this morning and he did walk towards Sapphire slowly and she gave a small hiss but didn't back up or get her paw ready to hit him." - Great!!! As she gets more trust and confident he will behave a bit better (hopefully). As long as nothing negative happened it is fine.

"Tonight was the same as last night." - Great

"She came down from the tree for some treats before jumping up on the chair (I say chair but it is in fact two folded up floor mattresses stacked so it's only about two feet high) and once she was up there crouched low and wrapped her tail around herself. " - I love that she feels confident to come down for treats. Then if he is behaving and they are having a positive association/positive encounter it is fantastic. And it is fine she goes on the chair and sits low, tail wrapped. Again, if he is behaving, eating treats, or being good it builds trust.

"I don't know if I've mentioned it, but in situations where they are out together, Sapphire does not like to be given pets. She won't hiss at me or my partner but she'll let out an unhappy meow or trill." - That is fine and normal for some cats. Just reassure her, talk lovingly and confidently, maybe give "eye kisses" (close your eyes slowly, hold them closed, then open them slowly). And keep him focused on anything other than her, try to have him behave, etc.

"As of right now she is back to normal playing with a toy in her tree and licking my cheek even though she can hear Fluffy crying in his room because he wants attention." - PERFECT!!!!

"I'm so sorry if I'm rambling and I apologize if I missed any of your questions, it was a very long day at work!" - Oh my goodness. NO REASON to apologize. This is great and not rambling at all.

"Thank you again for the help and advice! " - You are very welcome but THANK YOU for saving another life. Keep up the great work!!!

 

[Graham18]

"Thank you for all of the answers and responses to everything, they are very helpful and definitely help keep my mind at ease " - You are very welcome, I hope they help.

"I apologize if I miss answering any of your questions." - No need to apologize, I will definitely follow up if I have a question.

"First, I don't believe I really see much in terms of negative body language," - Great

" but I'm just going based on what I've read as negative." - Yes, that is the typical. Ears, back, dilated eyes, hair up, big tail, low to the ground, etc. Of course not all those are always negative so context is important.

"Ears always seem to stay forward" - Great

" although if or when Fluffy goes towards Sapphire a bit too close she'll throw her ears back as she hisses at him." - Exactly, that is normal and defensive. I worry more when it is offensive. AND if it deters any further negativity it is positive as it avoids a negative encounter.

" Fluffy will usually lay down, sometimes on his side," - That is actually positive as it is submissive. No cat in fear would be vulnerable like that. If they show their belly it is a sign of trust.

"other times directly facing her ready to lunge if she gets close and usually it is just the tail thrashing but nothing else out of the ordinary." - Yes, and that can be play. A thrashing tail can be negative and fine. It sounds like Fluffy has a fine, play tail action.

"Both cats will usually have quite dilated pupils which I also see when they are just playful so I haven't been concerned about it." - Exactly. Dilated pupils can be fine or a worry. Again, supporting evidence to support whichever is important.

"She still generally reacts the same way when he moves towards her. If there is some distance she'll give a little hiss or growl and when it's a bit closer it'll be a louder hiss and she'll back away." - Yes, that is normal. And just tells us she still doesn't totally trust him yet. BUT if it doesn't escalate and it ends there then it is actually positive.

"I do my best to try and remember two weeks ago when she would take off immediately as soon as he came out." - Absolutely, that is fine.

"In regards to Fluffy's biting, he's never broken skin." - Great. He knows he doesn't want to hurt you. He is intentionally holding back (because if a cat wants to hurt they will).

"Sometimes he just leaves little teeth marks" - Yes, probably a "knock it off" in a way.

" but he's improved quite a bit in the last few months." - GREAT!!

" He used to constantly go after feets, hands, legs, etc." - Yes, because they tend to be fun (like a toy) moving, etc

" Now it happens at specific times such as when he is really stimulated (after he uses the litter box)," - Yes, when they are overstimulated just let them decompress a bit and be careful.

" or sometimes when he is being held but usually only when he sees Sapphire and wants to go down." - Yes, that is his way of saying "let me go to play with her".

" He'll also try and bite sometimes when I'm putting on or taking off his harness, but that is usually at night after I've been playing with him for a bit and he's a bit stimulated." - Ahhhhhh, yes, overstimulated again. Sometimes when they don't want that limitation they let us know.

"In the mornings he could care less." - That is good.

" I'll usually tell him no and he'll let go within a few seconds." - FANTASTIC!!

"Now onto the fight. I will admit it was way too soon." - Not a big deal, they are doing great.

"I had just been following generic advice from various online sources and friends with multiple cats and because I had never seen any issues with Fluffy from just behind gates, " - Yes, that is common.

"I assumed there may have been some swatting but not a full on chase." - Ok

" There was no blood or fur afterwards. " - GREAT!!!! That tells me they didn't want to hurt each other. Excellent!!!

"The fight itself was a lot of rolling around and shrieking." - Yes, it can sound horrific. It is shocking when you see it.

"Sapphire managed to get away and run downstairs to hide behind my chest freezer and Fluffy did look scared as he had his back arched up, tail fluffed, etc. There may have also been some hissing on his part out of fear, " - Yes, that is actually good. They didn;t really mean to get into it, it just happened and escalated as it often does. They don't know and trust the other cat so don't know how much danger there might be. BUT it sounds like neither one wanted to hurt each other which is great.

"but seeing how far they've come now," - Tells us neither wants to hurt the other cat and that the "fight" was not a big deal.

"I've realized I moved too fast at first." - Yes but not an issue.

"I'm not extremely worried about Fluffy being outright aggressive as he was in a community room with other cats at the rescue and I was told he was very calm and gentle with them" - Great, I think the information you have written supports that conclusion.

" so I truely believe he really just wants to play rough with Sapphire as he is a very young energetic boy" - Exactly. That is my sense.

" (I was told he may be part Burmese but I don't really know much about the breed to know if that would make a difference)." - I don;t know either.

" I'm also trying to work out what his hissing means as he will just hiss randomly. He will sometimes hiss at his toys when he's playing and I've also seen him hiss at his water bowl and when I take him out into the backyard sometimes he will just let out a loud hiss for a few seconds for no apparent reason. I don't know if he's ever hissed at sapphire. Sometimes he lets out a sound that sounds like a hiss but I think it just a loud huff or sigh." - Hahahaha, yes, they do that sometimes. Hissing is communication so if it is not supported by anything else I don't worry about it. Some cats communicate with a hiss sometimes>

"On a side note, there were no major developments today." - Great

" I brought him out this morning and he did walk towards Sapphire slowly and she gave a small hiss but didn't back up or get her paw ready to hit him." - Great!!! As she gets more trust and confident he will behave a bit better (hopefully). As long as nothing negative happened it is fine.

"Tonight was the same as last night." - Great

"She came down from the tree for some treats before jumping up on the chair (I say chair but it is in fact two folded up floor mattresses stacked so it's only about two feet high) and once she was up there crouched low and wrapped her tail around herself. " - I love that she feels confident to come down for treats. Then if he is behaving and they are having a positive association/positive encounter it is fantastic. And it is fine she goes on the chair and sits low, tail wrapped. Again, if he is behaving, eating treats, or being good it builds trust.

"I don't know if I've mentioned it, but in situations where they are out together, Sapphire does not like to be given pets. She won't hiss at me or my partner but she'll let out an unhappy meow or trill." - That is fine and normal for some cats. Just reassure her, talk lovingly and confidently, maybe give "eye kisses" (close your eyes slowly, hold them closed, then open them slowly). And keep him focused on anything other than her, try to have him behave, etc.

"As of right now she is back to normal playing with a toy in her tree and licking my cheek even though she can hear Fluffy crying in his room because he wants attention." - PERFECT!!!!

"I'm so sorry if I'm rambling and I apologize if I missed any of your questions, it was a very long day at work!" - Oh my goodness. NO REASON to apologize. This is great and not rambling at all.

"Thank you again for the help and advice! " - You are very welcome but THANK YOU for saving another life. Keep up the great work!!!

Thank you again!

I do have two quick questions.
1. How long should I be allowing the visits with his harness to take place? Usually the morning isn't very long as I don't have much time before I leave for work. At night, I feed them both wet food together as soon as I get home and then usually try and bring Fluffy out around 8:30 (depends on the time I get home from work which is usually around 7:45). I've only been limiting the visits at night to maybe five minutes as I don't want to keep giving too many treats and after a few minutes both cats are kind of just laying there and nothing is really happening (Fluffy on the ground, Sapphire on the chair). Fluffy also knows that at 9 he gets kibble in his treat ball and it's bed time after that so he sometimes gets a bit antsey though if he's not I'll bring him up to his perch to look outside a bit. How long should I be letting them visit for? I've been keeping them short for the reasons above and I also don't want either cat to get too stressed or anxious and I really don't know if I should just be sitting there doing nothing with them for longer or not.

And 2. At what point should I try moving forward to another step? What signs should I be looking for? My thought was the next step would be letting Fluffy out but leaving his harness on without the leash since I don't think he would have the same speed in it if he decided to try and play and I could catch him or get him to treats before he could. I'm just not sure what I should be looking for before moving up to this step or even the next.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you again!

I do have two quick questions.
1. How long should I be allowing the visits with his harness to take place? Usually the morning isn't very long as I don't have much time before I leave for work. At night, I feed them both wet food together as soon as I get home and then usually try and bring Fluffy out around 8:30 (depends on the time I get home from work which is usually around 7:45). I've only been limiting the visits at night to maybe five minutes as I don't want to keep giving too many treats and after a few minutes both cats are kind of just laying there and nothing is really happening (Fluffy on the ground, Sapphire on the chair). Fluffy also knows that at 9 he gets kibble in his treat ball and it's bed time after that so he sometimes gets a bit antsey though if he's not I'll bring him up to his perch to look outside a bit. How long should I be letting them visit for? I've been keeping them short for the reasons above and I also don't want either cat to get too stressed or anxious and I really don't know if I should just be sitting there doing nothing with them for longer or not.

And 2. At what point should I try moving forward to another step? What signs should I be looking for? My thought was the next step would be letting Fluffy out but leaving his harness on without the leash since I don't think he would have the same speed in it if he decided to try and play and I could catch him or get him to treats before he could. I'm just not sure what I should be looking for before moving up to this step or even the next.

You are very welcome.

"I do have two quick questions." - Ok

"1. How long should I be allowing the visits with his harness to take place?" - As long as they are positive. Intro's are more art than science so there are no set rules. The rule really is whatever works is the rule. BUT maximizing positive encounters and minimizing or avoiding negative encounters is really the key. 2 minutes of positive encounter is better than 10 minutes of positive then a negative encounter. We are all about building trust and confidence. And if it is fully positive then it helps build that trust and therefore confidence.

"Usually the morning isn't very long as I don't have much time before I leave for work." - That is fine. Just try to make it positive. Positive association (using food) then a positive encounter should go along with it.

"At night, I feed them both wet food together as soon as I get home" - Great

I should add, keeping cats on a routine tends to help since cats like routines AND human emotions are important so if you are rushed or stressed then decompress a bit then do a session as cats tend to take on our emotions so the more, calm and confident and positive we are the more they are.

"and then usually try and bring Fluffy out around 8:30 (depends on the time I get home from work which is usually around 7:45)." - Sounds good.

" I've only been limiting the visits at night to maybe five minutes as I don't want to keep giving too many treats" - Ok

" and after a few minutes both cats are kind of just laying there and nothing is really happening (Fluffy on the ground, Sapphire on the chair)." - Ok, that is terrific. So hanging out with them like that is good if you can. And if you sense them getting a bit restless then just end it there before anything gets wild. Hanging out in each others company and doing nothing is great to build trust. Of course, cats tend to get interested in the other cat but sense when that is going to happen then just end it there.

" Fluffy also knows that at 9 he gets kibble in his treat ball and it's bed time after that so he sometimes gets a bit antsey" - Yep, they will.

" though if he's not I'll bring him up to his perch to look outside a bit." - That is great.

" How long should I be letting them visit for? " As long as you think it is positive. So if it is 5 minutes and positive that is great or if it is 30 minutes it is great.

"I've been keeping them short for the reasons above" - Yes, that is fine.

" and I also don't want either cat to get too stressed or anxious and " - Well, usually there are signs before (maybe not a long lead time but usually there is a bit of a warning). And you can try to reassure with calm, confident and loving words to try to distract and de-escalate.

"I really don't know if I should just be sitting there doing nothing with them for longer or not." - You can (I do) but again as long as it is positive. But don't put too much pressure on yourself. Just enjoy it and go with them and their behavior.

"And 2. At what point should I try moving forward to another step?" - When you feel it will be successful. So our next step will probably be with Fluffy of the harness. So we need to be confident he can be distracted and that she is confident enough (not to run). I don;t think we are there yet but I think it will be soon.

"What signs should I be looking for?" - Body language, ease of being distracted, them looking away from each other.

" My thought was the next step would be letting Fluffy out but leaving his harness on without the leash" - Your instincts/thoughts are spot on. Exactly. Yes, you could leave the harness on and take off the leash when we are ready.

" since I don't think he would have the same speed in it if he decided to try and play and I could catch him or get him to treats before he could." - Yes, that could be helpful. As long as he likes the harness (or accepts it).

" I'm just not sure what I should be looking for before moving up to this step or even the next. " - Body language, ease of distraction, them looking away from each other, turning their back on each other, showing some submissiveness (like showing their belly, laying on their side, etc). You'll feel it. And I'll help you know when it should progress. I think you are close. I just want Sapphire to be a bit more confident, a bit more comfortable before going there. If you keep up the current work she will.

Just ask anything to clarify. Sometimes it is a bit hard to communicate but hopefully examples help it more understandable. It is like trying to explain love. You kinda know when you feel it but tough to describe. Hopefully I have given some idea of what we are looking for.

Keep up the great work.