Help/Advice for introductions

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Graham18

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With no hissing or growling, that looks like play. I'll grant that Saphire is a little frenetic about it, but if there is true hostility you usually get murder noises and a cat throwing themselves at the gate with obvious hostile intent. At worst, Saphire is "back off" swatting, which isn't the same as trying to fight.

People talk about body language a lot, but for the most part, its just unnecessary and subject to misinterpretation, because when cats want to fight, they are almost never silent about it. That said, Fluffy's body language does show chill/lazy playing.
Good to know thank you!
If I manage to get any better videos or have any updates I will update :)
 
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Graham18

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Slight update. Very small. I set up the diy gate to my bedroom (where Fluffy goes during the day while I'm at work as his room doesn't have a window), and Sapphire went up to it, noses touched and I looked like Fluffy gave a small lick (of course Sapphire was hissing the whole time).

Another question I have in regards to Fluffy's body language.. when I am sitting on the bed with him and Sapphire goes near the outside of the gate, he will crouch super low, kind of wiggle is butt a bit and then either leap off the bed towards her or run while staying really low down. Would this be considered playful?
 

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Another question I have in regards to Fluffy's body language.. when I am sitting on the bed with him and Sapphire goes near the outside of the gate, he will crouch super low, kind of wiggle is butt a bit and then either leap off the bed towards her or run while staying really low down. Would this be considered playful?
I'm going to say "yes", as it sounds like the same wiggle when they're about to pounce on a toy. However, that is the same behaviour for pouncing on prey, which is what playing really is training kittens to be able to do, but having seen video of Fluffy, he really seems to be all about the play, and less about fighting.

Think I posted this before, but here's the TCS article on Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? | TheCatSite that might be helpful.
 
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I'm going to say "yes", as it sounds like the same wiggle when they're about to pounce on a toy. However, that is the same behaviour for pouncing on prey, which is what playing really is training kittens to be able to do, but having seen video of Fluffy, he really seems to be all about the play, and less about fighting.

Think I posted this before, but here's the TCS article on Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? | TheCatSite that might be helpful.
I read it again just to be on the safe side :) thank you!
I'm definitely thinking Fluffy just wants to play. He always wants to play and I can never seem to tire him out. Sapphire really only likes to play on her terms (usually at around 3 AM).
 
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No major new updates. Having the gate up while at work during the day does seem to be working to some degree. Both cats appear to be a bit more relaxed but there is still the odd spat at the gate.

This morning I put Fluffy into a mesh sided play pen for a few minutes and Sapphire went up close but he immediately went to lunge at her while in there and she took off. The lunging/chasing is now my biggest worry with the introductions as that is what led to the fighting the first time.

I'm sorry for all the updates, when things take even a small step back I tend to get extremely stressed and discouraged.
 

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I am dealing with almost the exact same thing as you. A 4 yo cat who is scared and timid and an 11 month old energetic kitten who wants to play, lunge and chase. We are at the baby gate stage (I put up a screen door).
 

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I'm sorry for all the updates, when things take even a small step back I tend to get extremely stressed and discouraged.
Don't be sorry for all your updates, this is your thread, after all. And we want updates, so we can follow the progress, and offer supportk, and advice when we can. Plus it gives you a place to track their progress. And express your frustrations. 🤗 Hopefully things will get better soon. :crossfingers:

I am dealing with almost the exact same thing as you. A 4 yo cat who is scared and timid and an 11 month old energetic kitten who wants to play, lunge and chase. We are at the baby gate stage (I put up a screen door).
Hello and welcome to TCS, Y Yoshicatt . Sorry your situation is the same as Graham18 Graham18 's, though I guess it lets you both know that you're not alone with dealing with a slow cat introduction. I see you've started a thread of your own, so I'll check it out.
 
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I am dealing with almost the exact same thing as you. A 4 yo cat who is scared and timid and an 11 month old energetic kitten who wants to play, lunge and chase. We are at the baby gate stage (I put up a screen door).
Yup that sounds about right. Both of mine are around 2 years old, though I have a feeling my new boy is probably a bit younger with his endless amount of energy. I'm hoping to start harness introductions soon and hoping it will teach him that he can't chase. No matter how calm he is laying by the gate I know he'll lunge and chase as soon as it's down. I wish you all the luck with your introduction I know how stressful it can be.

Don't be sorry for all your updates, this is your thread, after all. And we want updates, so we can follow the progress, and offer supportk, and advice when we can. Plus it gives you a place to track their progress. And express your frustrations. 🤗 Hopefully things will get better soon. :crossfingers:



Hello and welcome to TCS, Y Yoshicatt . Sorry your situation is the same as Graham18 Graham18 's, though I guess it lets you both know that you're not alone with dealing with a slow cat introduction. I see you've started a thread of your own, so I'll check it out.
Thank you again for your help and kind words. I'm hoping to keep moving forward really soon if they keep improving at the gate.
 

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Harness training?? That sounds like something I need to look I to. My Bella loves to play chase too.
 
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Harness training?? That sounds like something I need to look I to. My Bella loves to play chase too.
I'm hoping it will help! I've tried it in the past but when he has his harness on, my male cat usually won't try and lunge/chase until my female cat gets close to him at which point she gets scared and runs off so it may not help at all.
 
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No major breakthroughs yet, but there is noticeable progress! I'm still putting Fluffy in my bedroom during the day while I'm home or at work with the gates up. Sapphire ignores him much more now than a few weeks ago comfortably walking by or just laying in her room across the hall. She will come to the gate every now and then and they will frantically paw at eachother but not as often. She will do this new thing where she sits just outside of his reach and will just sit not doing anything.

Fluffy has still calmed somewhat though he will rush the gate still after a little butt wiggle. He's been getting a lot of energy in the evening lately, so he's usually quite hyper when I'm there to observe their behaviour. I've been trying to play with him more because his hyperness in the evening turns to biting and bleeding on my arms and hands haha.

I've also been bringing Fluffy out on his harness twice a day with Sapphire around which is where I've seen the most progress. Last week sapphire would run away immediately and now she will sometimes come within about 5 feet of him or even closer if treats are involved and there is usually minimal hissing and growling unless Fluffy decides to move suddenly. He usually just lays down for the entire session though. I'm trying to figure out if he is actually calming down around her or if it's just him not wanting to move with the harness on (some days he doesn't seem to notice it's there, other days he won't move at all). So far there hasn't been any attempted lunges with the harness so I'm going to keep this up.

I've also started giving both cats hemp oil with their meals from a local pet store. Though it's hard to notice a difference in Fluffy's behaviour since his personality will go from sweet, loving boy, to bouncing off the walls and biting/playing with the snap of a finger, I have noticed a huge difference in Sapphire. She seems more playful at times and is back to some of her old behaviour from prior to myself going back to work after our second stay at home order and bringing Fluffy home (coming up on the table while I'm eating, waking me up at 3 am, and all the other things she used to do).

I'm hoping things keep improving and I can move to supervised visits soon. I'm also thinking I will leave the harness on Fluffy at first but without the leash and see if I can get a better sense of what he is going to do.
 

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Sounds like you're having good progress with the introductions. In fact, it's Fluffy's biting that stood out this time. Do try to discourage that behaviour. Say "noooooo" or "ouch" when he bites, to try to let him know he's hurting you. And if he breaks the skin, keep a close eye on the bite, as they can quickly become infected.

Ouch! More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Cat Bites – Cat Articles
 
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Sounds like you're having good progress with the introductions. In fact, it's Fluffy's biting that stood out this time. Do try to discourage that behaviour. Say "noooooo" or "ouch" when he bites, to try to let him know he's hurting you. And if he breaks the skin, keep a close eye on the bite, as they can quickly become infected.

Ouch! More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Cat Bites – Cat Articles
Thank you! I do keep rubbing alcohol on hand. His biting hasn't broken skin yet but they do hurt sometimes but I find a lot of the time it's more play biting or annoyance biting (he likes to bite when I hold him sometimes or take his harness off) yet it's rarely hard enough to leave more than tiny little marks. Sometimes he'll bite a bit harder when he gets hyper but that usually involves his claws too when he is running around playing after using his litter box. His claws are what usually causes the bleeding and then I know it's time to cut them.
 
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Only a minor hiccup with the harness visit this evening. Both cats were eating treats about 2/3 feet away from eachother and out of the blue, Fluffy tried to lunge/jump at Sapphire but couldn't get very far because of the harness. Sapphire jumped back hissing and shrieking and preparing to defend herself. Took Fluffy downstairs to look out the window and Sapphire came down and went up on her tree to watch him after a few minutes and came up to the gate at Fluffy's room when I moved him back in there.
 

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Only a minor hiccup with the harness visit this evening. Both cats were eating treats about 2/3 feet away from eachother and out of the blue, Fluffy tried to lunge/jump at Sapphire but couldn't get very far because of the harness. Sapphire jumped back hissing and shrieking and preparing to defend herself. Took Fluffy downstairs to look out the window and Sapphire came down and went up on her tree to watch him after a few minutes and came up to the gate at Fluffy's room when I moved him back in there.
"Both cats were eating treats about 2/3 feet away from eachother" - Great

" and out of the blue, Fluffy tried to lunge/jump at Sapphire but couldn't get very far because of the harness." - It happens. Depending on the body language before it

"Took Fluffy downstairs to look out the window and Sapphire came down and went up on her tree to watch him after a few minutes" - This is really positive. LOVE that she went into the same room and went "high" on the cat tree (which build confidence) to watch him.

" and came up to the gate at Fluffy's room when I moved him back in there." - And came up to the gate to presumably to look at him.

Sounds like you are making great progress. Just keep trying to make positive associations and try to maximize positive encounters will minimizing or avoiding negative encounters. It is a process and it takes time but you'll find success.

Just reading the thread everything seems expected. It takes time for a resident cat to accept and the new cat might be a bit more playful, trusting, energetic, etc. Sounds like Fluffy is a good cat and same with Sapphire. Just keep up the great work, they are going to be just fine in time.

They are absolutely gorgeous cats!!!
 
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"Both cats were eating treats about 2/3 feet away from eachother" - Great

" and out of the blue, Fluffy tried to lunge/jump at Sapphire but couldn't get very far because of the harness." - It happens. Depending on the body language before it

"Took Fluffy downstairs to look out the window and Sapphire came down and went up on her tree to watch him after a few minutes" - This is really positive. LOVE that she went into the same room and went "high" on the cat tree (which build confidence) to watch him.

" and came up to the gate at Fluffy's room when I moved him back in there." - And came up to the gate to presumably to look at him.

Sounds like you are making great progress. Just keep trying to make positive associations and try to maximize positive encounters will minimizing or avoiding negative encounters. It is a process and it takes time but you'll find success.

Just reading the thread everything seems expected. It takes time for a resident cat to accept and the new cat might be a bit more playful, trusting, energetic, etc. Sounds like Fluffy is a good cat and same with Sapphire. Just keep up the great work, they are going to be just fine in time.

They are absolutely gorgeous cats!!!
Thank you for you're kind words! We had another hiccup yesterday morning, but this time it was Sapphire who ran up to hit him before getting scared by Fluffy trying to lunge back but again both seemed calm afterwards (Fluffy will start huffing and puffing really loud after but I'm guessing it's from excitement as he also does it when he's playing). These little tussles happen so fast that it's hard to see body language, but usually it seems Fluffy will be laying down calm one second and lunge the next. Sapphire usually doesn't change her body language until he tries to lunge at her and her ears go back and the hissing and growling starts.

Last night we did better. Didn't let them get too close and have them a special treat of chicken bits. No issues came up :)

I hope you won't find it discouraging. And keep in mind, they're much further along than you are.
No discouragement :) I'm about half way through the posts and I do see the resemblance. Fluffy was a stray and the vets at the rescue where we got him estimated he was 2 but possibly younger. I'm guessing he most likely wasn't socialized as a kitten and I think he really just wants to play but doesn't know how to properly. He was with other cats at the rescue and there weren't any issues.
 

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Thank you for you're kind words! We had another hiccup yesterday morning, but this time it was Sapphire who ran up to hit him before getting scared by Fluffy trying to lunge back but again both seemed calm afterwards (Fluffy will start huffing and puffing really loud after but I'm guessing it's from excitement as he also does it when he's playing). These little tussles happen so fast that it's hard to see body language, but usually it seems Fluffy will be laying down calm one second and lunge the next. Sapphire usually doesn't change her body language until he tries to lunge at her and her ears go back and the hissing and growling starts.

Last night we did better. Didn't let them get too close and have them a special treat of chicken bits. No issues came up :)


No discouragement :) I'm about half way through the posts and I do see the resemblance. Fluffy was a stray and the vets at the rescue where we got him estimated he was 2 but possibly younger. I'm guessing he most likely wasn't socialized as a kitten and I think he really just wants to play but doesn't know how to properly. He was with other cats at the rescue and there weren't any issues.
"Thank you for you're kind words!" - You are very welcome.

"We had another hiccup yesterday morning, but this time it was Sapphire who ran up to hit him" - Interesting. I wish I could have seen it. Depending on how the hit went (aggressive, fast, etc) it could tell us a lot. Sounds like some discipline/mom teaching going on. Or it could have been some attempt at play.

"before getting scared by Fluffy trying to lunge back" - Yep. As long as it doesn't escalate too much.

" but again both seemed calm afterwards" - THAT is the KEY. If it was serious they would be acting very differently.

" (Fluffy will start huffing and puffing really loud after but I'm guessing it's from excitement as he also does it when he's playing). " - Could be.

"These little tussles happen so fast that it's hard to see body language" - I know. That is why we tend to watch how they act after so they can tell us what they thought of it. Fast rebound to normal = positive (not an issue).

,"but usually it seems Fluffy will be laying down calm one second and lunge the next." - That could be play or could be defensive. I would have to see it.

"Sapphire usually doesn't change her body language until he tries to lunge at her and her ears go back and the hissing and growling starts." - Yes, as expected to deter the lunge.

"Last night we did better. Didn't let them get too close and have them a special treat of chicken bits. No issues came up :)" - GREAT!!!! Positive association and positive encounter = confidence and trust building.

They are going to be just fine. Just keep doing what you are doing. It is a process with ups and downs but you and the cats are doing great. Keep up the great work!!! :)
 
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