Fluid In Cat's Chest - Advice Needed

Antonio65

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My cat Pallina has been found with fluids in her chest.

She's 16 years and 5 months old, spayed, regularly vaccinated, mainly indoor cat. She's allowed outdoors only when I can directly supervise her. She has always been healthy, but was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism last year in September and treated with methimazole since.

These fluids were first found when she was admitted at a I-131 clinic in Belgium on last Aug 7. At the admission visit the vet heard a slight heart murmur and did a chest scan which revealed a small amount of fluid. Those vets didn't aspirate it because the amount was too small, but adviced me to have a new ultrasound scan done after a month.
The report said:
There is a mild amount of anechoic pleural effusion, larger in the left hemithorax.
The amount is small to safely puncture it (in very close connection with the heart).
There is no mass detected cranial to the heart.
The sternal lymph node is mildly hypoechoic, but is not enlarged (3,3 mm).


In the conclusions, among other things, it was written
Radiographic and ultrasonographic investigation of the throacic cavity revealed no anomalies that could justify the pleural effusion...[...]... A neoplastic or viral (FIP) cause can not be ruled out.

So, on Sept 12 I took my cat to my vet who did a new ultrasound scan and the fluid was still there. There was more fluid than in the images of the previous scan, my vet aspirated it, 55 ml of orange/pinkish liquid. It was sent it to the lab for a test that came with the result of
Macroscopic description
pink color, turbid appearance, specific weight 1029, total proteins 4 g/dl
Microscopic description
many small lymphocytes, discrete quantities of erythrocytes, few neutrophiles and rare macrophages are detected
Report
Cytological framework compatible with chronic lymphocytic exudate; it is advisable to repeat the cytological examination after about 15 days to assess the evolution of the lymphocyte population in order to safely exclude the presence of a lymphoma.


The advice was to do nothing and wait two more weeks and repeat the scan.

And so we did on past Thursday, 16 days later. The scan said that Pallina's heart is fine, the murmur is minimum, it isn't concerning. But that fluid was there again and when he aspirated it he got 105 ml of fluid, twice as much as the time before.
His comment was that we can rule a heart failure out because the scan was good and the fluid is too orange and cloudy, rather than clear. We can rule FIP out too because the specific weight of this fluid is too low. A FIP should also give much more visible symptoms, especially after two months.
The only idea could be of a lymphoma, but during the scan the vet didn't see any enlarged lymph node in her chest, apart from the sternal lymph node which is mildly reactive, with a size around 1 cm, not so large to justify this situation, so I think we're at a loss.

This time the lab report for this fluid says
Macroscopic description
light orange color, slightly turbid appearance, specific weight 1032, total proteins 4.4 g/dl, cholesterol 184 mg/dl, triglycerides 25 mg/dl. Rare erythrocytes. Cell population is mainly made from small lymphocites and a low number of macrophage-monocyte cells, occasionally in erythrophagocytosis. Rare neutrophiles detected.
Report
Cytological framework compatible with chronic lymphocytic exudate with signs of hemorrhage.


Pallina has suffered (or is suffering) from an IBD that in the last two months hasn't shown any issue, so I think it's well under control.
I have read that in certain cases IBD can turn into an intestinal lymphoma. But abdomen and chest are two different environments, so could an intestinal lymphoma give fluids in the chest? The vet says no.

Pallina is very fine. She's lively and active. As a matter of fact I think she's feeling better than she was before the radioiodine treatment. She eats two 85 grams cans of wet food daily, she eats 70 ml of water on average, she uses her litter tray regularly.
She weighs 3.070 kg (6 lbs 12 oz), 200 grams (7 oz) more than a month ago.
She shows no pain or discomfort, her breathing pattern and rate are regular.
She's been tested for FIV and FeLV twice in the last year, she's negative to both.
She isn't taking any meds since the end of July.

Any thought on this? Any advice on what else we should look for or do? I would like to get a clear answer to this fluid as soon as possible.

Pallina 2017_09.jpg

Photo taken today! ;)
 

artiemom

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sorry, I do not have any thoughts on this, but I wanted to tell you that Pallina is beautiful. She is full of life; you can see it in her Bright eyes..
..so sad you are going through with this....you have bee through so much..

My heart goes out to you. :redheartpump::redheartpump::redheartpump::redheartpump::redheartpump: :hugs::hugs::hugs: :itslove::itslove:
 

white shadow

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Hi Antonio65 !

Wow......she's just stunning !

If I were in your position, I would be posting that history to the folks in the specialized online Feline Lymphoma community. They've been active since 1998 and have had almost 4000 members and their caregivers.....it's quite possible that there is some case history there that might offer insight for Pallina.

You'll find them here: Discussion of Feline Lymphoma - Yahoo Groups

I'd suggest a brand new email account to use exclusively for the group - it can help manage the info flow. Yahoo works well.

FWIW, they also have a site: Feline Lymphoma Caregivers | Home

Hoping that can help.

[There's a second specialized community...perhaps have a look....their specialty is Small Cell Lymphoma. They're here: Feline_Smallcell_Lymphoma groups.io Group]
 
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Antonio65

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white shadow white shadow ,
Thanks for all the tips you have given to me!
I have read something about lymphoma and thymoma and though both might be the case, Pallina isn't showing all the other symptoms.
So I really don't know.

The vet who ran the scan told me that he would like to do an x-ray in a few days to see if other signs are visible in Pallina's chest, but I don't I agree and am thinking to see an oncologist and an IM vet in the next few days.
The usltrasound vet gave me the CD with the images of the scan but he still has to give me a written report of this scan. I should have it tomorrow. As soon as I have it I will send all I have to the most famous Italian oncologist. Luckily enough he's based 6 miles from here and his agenda could accept me within two weeks.
I think that following the ultrasound vet's advice would waste too much time in useless attempts and trials.
My Lola suffered the same slow process for diagnosing her diseases last year and the outcome of this is that she's at the Rainbow Bridge now.

One new sign that I think I'm seeing in Pallina is the fact that every now and them she has short and slight events of head shaking, as she had a tiny itch in her ears or a shiver. They last one or two seconds, but she's otherwise fine and alert and lively.

She's here now, between me and the computer keyboard, purring in my ears while I'm trying to guess where the keys are :p
 

abyeb

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Could it be pneumonia maybe?
 
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Antonio65

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We scheduled a TC scan on Thursday morning.
My vet thought we could have done another test prior to it, but I have decided that I'm in charge of the case now and I decide what is to be done and what is not.
Pallina is still fine, eats as usual, drinks a little less than the average of the last 5 months, breathes normally.
I called the lab vet last night and he told me he really can't understand what it can be, but given the symptoms and the situation he thinks it's something not serious.
 

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I think you are being very proactive which is good. After losing your beloved Lola because of things "slipping through the crack", you can't be too cautious with Pallina.

I truly believe YOU, not Vets, are your cat's best advocate. While we grieve deeply for the cats we lost, part of the healing process involves making good use of the knowledge and experience gleaned to help other cats we love, and cats on TCS. This we are both doing here.

It is good you have scheduled a CT scan on Thursday. Hopefully it will reveal nothing serious.
 

artiemom

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Wishing you all the best of luck.. Yes, we are ADVOCATES for our loved ones..
We have to work with the Vets, and the Vets have to work with us...

It is rare to find a pet guardian and a Vet who are committed to doing so..

I Respect, and applaud you, Antonio65 Antonio65 for being that....((hugs))
 

white shadow

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white shadow white shadow ,
Thanks for all the tips you have given to me!
I have read something about lymphoma and thymoma and though both might be the case, Pallina isn't showing all the other symptoms.
So I really don't know.
Allow me to rephrase my suggestion, because I sense my point's been missed.

Firstly, you said: "I have read that in certain cases IBD can turn into an intestinal lymphoma. But abdomen and chest are two different environments, so could an intestinal lymphoma give fluids in the chest?"

Well.....I suggest that your best chance of finding an answer to that is to pose the question to the "specialized online communities whose sole focus is Feline Lymphoma...one of which has almost 20 years of actual experience with almost 4000 cats...."

I don't wish to sound like a "broken record" [yes, old-schooll tech, I know;)]....but, just to ensure you 'got it'.
 
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Antonio65

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Thanks white shadow white shadow , I will definitely join those groups, but first thing I want to see the outcome of the CT scan tomorrow morning, it's just 24h away.
They will probably do a needle aspiration too, if they find anything suspect, more they told me of another test on the fluid to discriminate more thoroughly among different possible diagnoses.
In this moment I can't get focused on clear thoughts, my mind is a bit confused. I had too many bad experiences in the last months. Once I have the report tomorrow morning (and the possible following reports) I will be able to pose the right questions with as much info as possible to the groups.
Thanks! :)
 
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Antonio65

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We are at the clinic for the CT scan... They have already done an x-ray and saw a mass in her chest, behind her sternum. It seems that the mass is bigger than it was seen in the ultrasound a week ago. The CT scan is being done right now.
I'm desperate :bawling:
 

babiesmom5

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Try not to panic before knowing all the details. I have a cat now who, in April 2016, a mass was found in her lung. She underwent surgery (at age 16) to have a lung lobe removed containing the mass. This followed by 5 months of chemo. This CA has not returned. She is right here on my lap purring and doing well! There is hope!
 
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Antonio65

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I'm back to work!
The visit and the tests have lasted more than in the past. Usually I was out at noon, this time they let me go at 2:30 pm!

This is the clinic where I used to take Lola for her CT scans post radiation therapy for her nose carcinoma, from Feb 2012 to March 2014. They know me well :)
When I arrived at the front desk and told the secretary I was there for an appointment, the lady smiled and asked me if I was there for Lola... :( I told her that Lola was in the Cats' Paradise, she was so sorry for making a fool out of herself, but she had no fault, I had never told them Lola had died.

The vet who had to run the CT scan was the same who did the scans for Lola. She asked me about her, she was really sad to learn what had happened. She was so kind to listen to me telling her the whole story of the last year of her life and was absolutely speechless at hearing what my sweet Lola had gone through.
She said that I had doubled Lola's 9 lives and that nobody in the world could have done better.

However, she also listened to the story of Pallina, from the hyper-T diagnosis, to the therapies and to the I-131 treatment, and was astonished to hear that someone, the first she had ever known of, had gone along that path.
She read all the reports I had with me, then Pallina was taken to the X-ray room. I was her assistant in the process, they gave me a lead robe to protect me from the radiations and helped her hold Pallina on the table.
The image showed a large mass behind her sternum and according to the vet that was an enlarged lymph node. It was many times bigger than the one shown in the ultrasound scan of the past week. In her opinion it had grown quick and that was really bad.

Then they gave Pallina the anesthetic and the CT scan began, I couldn't be there and had to wait in the waiting room.
An hour later the vet came back to me and asked me to follow her to the scan room where she showed me the mass in the chest on the computer screen. It wasn't a lymph node, it was a large amount of fluid that she had drained a few mniutes before, 120 ml this time, much more than the amount the vet drained last week.
This fluid is building up faster and faster!!!

From the scan the only thing that she found was the same lymph node that was detected with the US scan, same size, same position. No other nodes are visible anywhere from the nose tip to the tail.

She made a needle aspiration from that node and we're waiting for the result. She also prepared a sample of that fluid for a special test with a difficult name. They don't do that test in house, so while we were waiting for Pallina to wake up, she sent me to the Veterinary University where they can do the test. The university is about 20 minutes from the clinic.
The doctor at the university was waiting for me, took the sample and told me that tonight or tomorrow morning we should have the report.
This report, along with the needle aspiration, should give us the name of what Pallina has, because the CT scan wasn't enough to understand her problem. So far they don't think it's a lymphoma, but don't know what it is.

She prescribed me a diuretic to allow Pallina to get rid of those fluids.
When we got back home she started breathing strangely, like a rasping breath from her throat. But it wasn't constant, in some moments I could hear it, in other moments I couldn't.
I suppose it is something to do with the vent tube they put into her mouth/throat during the scan.
She is fine, but she isn't allowed to eat until later.
If when I go back home she's still rasping then I'll take her to her usual clinic.

That's all.
What a day! :nervous:
 

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Hang in there Antonio, sending good vibs for you.
Let us know how Pallina is doing.
 
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Antonio65

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In the evening of last Friday I received two of the three reports I was waiting for.

The special test with a difficult name was a flow cytometry, the clinic where I took Pallina for the CT scan don't do that, so I had to take the fluid sample to the Veterinary University. The doctor at the university sent back the report on Friday.
I also received the CT scan report at the same time.
I am still waiting for the needle aspiration report that sould come in on tomorrow, I hope.

The CT scan report says that a slight enlargement of a lymph node behind the sternum is visible, but it is likely to be an inflammation, though they don't rule out any other issue. They have found a unusual shunt between the spleen vein and the left kidney vein. The right thyroid lobe is slightly larger than the left one. No other anomalous conditions have been detected.

The flow cytometry report for the chest fluid says that the framework is compatible with a reactive situation, according to the test lab vet this should rule out a lymphoma.

The test lab vet told me that given the results we have so far we are "breaded(*)", a typical term that we use here in Italy to say that we are in a difficult situation.
According to him it is likely that Pallina might have an infection or inflammation from a viral condition that shows no other symptoms. He says that the last attempt we could have is the PARR test, but this would mean we have to drain some more fluids from Pallina's chest and this would be no more advisable.

Pallina is fine, eats fine and is alert and playful. I can't see the least strange signal from her, she's just as her usual.

Pallina has been put on a diuretic (Furosemide), 10 mg tablets, 1/4 tablet a day, to help drain the chest fluid, and an appetite stimulant (Cyproheptadine/Periactin), 4 mg tablets, 1/4 tablet a day, because she was a little off food in the hours after the CT scan.
The first results I have noticed are an increased appetite (she eats 50% more than her usual) and an increased use of the litter box.
I'm going to keep a log to have a fluid balance. I'm keeping trace of how much water she's drinking, how much moisture she gets from her food and how much urine she does in her box.

(*)when something is breaded it is also ready to be fried, so it's an unpleasant or uncomfortable situation or position.
 
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Mia6

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Antonio,

It sounds like the meds are working and Pallina's docs know what they are doing.
Please give her kisses from me.


Hugs,

Mia
 

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I am hoping for a treatable condition!You have been through enough.Pallina is so beautiful.I am praying for you that she will be okay! Hugs to you both keep posting on her condition!Lots of hugs to you!
 

babiesmom5

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This is good news that thus far results support a reactive situation. This would lead one to believe that it is temporary and highly treatable.

The diuretic, Furosemide (which we commonly call Lasix here in the U.S) is the first line drug prescribed to treat edema for both people and pets. It does work...sometimes too good!
In the hospital, we have to watch elderly patients in particular, for signs of dehydration. While on this pill, one must take in more liquids than one excretes or electrolyte imbalances can occur. It is common to chart amounts of fluids taken in vs amounts excreted. Obviously with a cat, one cannot measure exactly these amounts, but it is good you are keeping close track of this with a log. You know to push fluids, both from drinking as well as food. It is good they prescribed an appetite stimulant to make Pallina ingest more moist food now.

An increase in fluids taken in will also help prevent constipation as often happens with both people and pets taking this medication that do not take in enough by mouth to compensate for that excreted.

I know you are staying close on top of this with your dear Pallina. Only thing I would caution is observe closely for any signs of lethargy, drowsiness, fatigue or restlessness...signs of possible dehydration to alert your Vet.

Tell sweet Pallina that lots of people and cats here are rooting for her!
 
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Antonio65

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The diuretic, Furosemide (which we commonly call Lasix here in the U.S) is the first line drug prescribed to treat edema for both people and pets. It does work...sometimes too good!
In the hospital, we have to watch elderly patients in particular, for signs of dehydration. While on this pill, one must take in more liquids than one excretes or electrolyte imbalances can occur. It is common to chart amounts of fluids taken in vs amounts excreted. Obviously with a cat, one cannot measure exactly these amounts, but it is good you are keeping close track of this with a log.
Yes, we have Lasix too, here. The med they gave me is called Dimazon.
Well, I simply sum up the water she drinks, the water I add to her wet food and the moisture contained in the wet food (does this count as it is?). Yesterday she drank 65 ml of water, I had added 45 ml of water to her wet food and the moisture in her wet food was 165 ml in all, a total of 275 ml.
She peed 220 ml of urine, so there's an unbalance of 55 ml... where are they? :dunno:

It is good they prescribed an appetite stimulant to make Pallina ingest more moist food now.
They told me that the stimulant has to be given for no longer than 4-5 days...
What then?

Only thing I would caution is observe closely for any signs of lethargy, drowsiness, fatigue or restlessness...signs of possible dehydration to alert your Vet.
Yesterday she was a little sleepier than her usual, but I will keep a close eye on her in the next couple of days.
Thanks!!!
 
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