CRF kitty, made an appt to PTS. Second guessing.

[three cat night]

Palikakitty, Just want to wish you & Sammy a Lovely summer , it is sooooo painful and breaks our hearts when our kitties start having health issues when they are geriatric . Obviously your cats are having nice long lives and probably because you have kept them safe & loved & spoiled just as they deserve . Keep us posted ok?
3cat

 

[duckdodgers]

I decided to have my 18 year old CRF kitty put down in February, so I know how this goes.  When she was about 15 she had a really bad incident where she literally sat on my parents' couch for 24 hours, not eating drinking or getting up.  I was living in a dorm at college at the time, so my mom decided to take her in several times a week for two weeks for fluid shots.  Btw, anyone who says that anyone can be trained to do it at home on their own cat never met this kitty.  She weighed 5 pounds and had no front claws, but was more difficult to control than any other cat I've been around.  Either way, had I known what was going on I probably would have made the decision to euthanize her.  With the fluids she had a complete turnaround, but I knew regular at home treatments was something I wouldn't ever consider for her.

Early this year she started going downhill.  She was having bad diarrhea, kept losing weight gradually, generally not feeling well, and seemed even more irritable than normal.  She never had any clear crash and never stopped eating completely.  It made the decision difficult, especially since she recovered from a crash a few years back.  Still, I knew my cat and I knew that it was time for her to go.  I had to call my mother and get her to make the appointment for me, and when my family came to say goodbye they confirmed that I was making the right decision.  I was beating myself up for deciding to have it done, but I wanted my kitty to die without feeling even worse.  Once things were done I actually felt ok about things.  Losing my kitty was upsetting, but I knew I did the right thing.

We also had to have my dog euthanized last month.  She likely had lymphoma, and went back and forth between having good and awful moments, depending on how recently she had her steroids.  She had mostly stopped eating, but I convinced her to have one of the pills not long before the appointment.  I wanted her to be feeling as good as she could be when she got the shot.  I'd rather that than see them go out feeling bad, even if seeing them at their worst helps to confirm your decision.  Just another point of view with regards to how your animal may be feeling at a euthanasia appointment.

Can a cat in such a dire situation recover?  Maybe, and maybe not.  No one knows your cat better than you do, and you should feel confident with the decision you make.  You've made sure that she made it through 18 years of life, and whatever you decide to do will be an informed decision.

 

[wasabipea]

I'm sorry for your recent losses, DuckDodgers. Making the decision to euthnize is one of the hardest to make.

Last month when I had to PTS another 18 yr old kitty - he had aggressive lung cancer and was getting pulmonary edema - I had just been in a really bad car wreck, was in danger of losing my job, the vet gave me the news and I felt I didn't have the strength to put him down right then - but I got him home and saw how he was just beginning to suffer and I guess it was an epiphany that it wasn't about me, it was about him. Had him euthanized the next day. Hard as it was, I was OK with it, because I knew it was the right decision. I agree with the previous poster that while seeing them go is hard - its harder to watch them decline further to confirm your decision.

My vet said to me that she has had many clients lament that they waited too long, but has never once heard someone say that they regretted doing it too early. Oh well, just some words that I found comforting.

And as Red Top said, it's not the actual act - its making the decision to do it.

So many words of wisdom in this thread, thanks to all the contributors :-)

And Palikakitty, if your 18 yr old goes outside at all... just an idea - if he likes it, you could plant a little patch of catmint. I thought last summer would be Roni's last, and i planted some of it for her. Some of my favorite memories I have is of her laying in her catmint, or sitting there with her head buried in it, or laying on the porchstep with her head lolling off the side in the catmint bush. Really sweet it made her so happy.

 

[palikakitty]

Thanks for the responses! We are lucky that Sammy is very laid back and tolerates our attempts to get the fluid in him. I shaved a section of his back and that has made it easier. He has always been like that--I went through periods of shaving my cats because I would get crazy about the cat hair (we had 10 cats at the time) and he was one of the few who actually enjoyed it and would purr the entire time!

I am going to get some catmint--he does go into the fenced back yard on nice days and walks around--always supervised. It's funny--the other cats will sit at the door and let him walk out and they know not to follow! He was an indoor-outdoor cat for the first 7 years of his life (we actually got him neutered at age 7 when we got him from a friend whose wife had become allergic). We made him indoor only until last summer. In January of 2013 the vet felt a mass in his abdomen, we had two ultrasound-guided aspirations in the next 4 months and the mass had not grown in size and the results of the aspiration were inconclusive. The specialty vet said that surgery was not an option since his kidney values were already showing signs of early disease. So we actually thought last summer might be his last but he has been fine until the last few months when he has grwon increasingly frail. However, he is one of the few cats who can still jump from the floor to the countertop! He is still eating and seems to be happy so we take it one day at a time.

 

[wasabipea]

Yea, that's what we do with our Golden Year kitties... one day at a time. And spoil them like each day is their last. This pic was from last summer and she was enjoying her catmint, it made her happy - which of course it did for me too. I thought it was her last summer too. I wanted to do as much to spoil her as much as I could.

I hope your Sammy likes it, while Roni loves it... Len couldn't have cared less about it.
And it grows like wildfire, be prepared!

Kitty bliss:

photo-21.JPG

• wasabipea
• Jun 10, 2014

I hope I don't get in trouble for posting so many pics
My best to you and Sammy and the brood.

 

[pinkdagger]

I love seeing these pictures - she's so gorgeous! I'm so glad to see she's perked up and getting back to her old self too.

I haven't dealt with making the decision to put a cat down, but I have with two small parrots and it was just something where you knew. You knew the days weren't going to get any easier, and that any days beyond that single day would be more painful and more disorienting. Much harder to medicate, and no way to administer sub-qs or force/tube feedings to birds, so I think that forces a decision faster. I was fortunate enough to be able to get same-day appointments for both (suffering from advanced liver disease). I'd contemplated it a few times when they were looking tired, but not disoriented or as weak as their last days. I couldn't imagine making an appointment in advance and having to anticipate the day. I can totally understand the second guessing.

 

[palikakitty]

One of my employees lost her last cat a few years ago and said she didn't want any more.  she wanted to travel and not scoop any more litter boxes!  A few days ago a cat came to her door.  He belonged to a man who had moved to Spain and left him behind.  By that evening he was sleeping on her pillow.  She named him Sammy without even knowing my story.  Is it weird that it is somehow comforting to me?  He is a teenage cat and while not a tuxedo he has 4 white paws just like my Sam. 

 

[wasabipea]

Those kitties find us somehow. I had to give the kitten back to my friend, so she has a good home to return to. I was hoping that since Roni was so lonely, she might take to some company - but alas, only Len will do. She was so happy last night to have "her" house back, and her perk up was nothing short of a small miracle. I do attribute the kitten being around helping her to snap out of her "I give up" attitude that she had because she had to defend her turf, so I will say the kitten wasn't a total mistake. But in the long run she was too stressed and wanted her to live out the rest of her days in relative peace.

I have to learn to do subQs at home though, she is a really good girl going to and being at the vets for them... but I'm such a wimp about it. Her skin is so thin and delicate, I'm afraid I"m going to poke the needle right thru her. She's been going nightly to get her thru this crisis, and is so used to it, the stress it puts on her is low. She really is a good girl.

Pinkdagger, you were lucky to get appts the same day - I'm asssuming that was for at home euthanasia. The last one that my kitty had for at home was made on a Monday AM and it was for Wed at 3 which wasn't too bad. I figured at her rate of decline, it would be just about right, But a week? That's unthinkable.

I'm so happy I cancelled her last appt, she's eating and all "happy cat" purring again, she kept me up half the night laying by my head purring. She amazes me. But when they are in such a state of decline as were your birds, it makes the decision easier to live with. It's never easy, but when you know that you are ending the suffering, it's almost cathartic and a relief.

BTW palikakitty... I'm a sucker for white paws.

 

[pinkdagger]

Very true - the appointments I got were actually at vet's offices. I was calling around frantically to see who would actually agree to put down a bird, and let me be present (none will. the emergency vet receptionist explained "it's not something owners want to see", which I've learned is common with exotics. because that helps me feel so much better, right!?). In the end for one case, I settled with a vet who was willing to see me within a half hour in between appointments and reassured me I would get to see her immediately after. They could tell it wasn't something I wanted to delay. In the other case, I just drove and showed up at the emergency vet in my pajamas since it was after hours and had it done right then and there.

Hopefully without those meds, Roni can have many better and comfortable days ahead!

 

[wasabipea]

I was really adamant about not doing it at the vets, because I didn't want Len's last moments to be scary for him - but I think what so many people have said in this thread - it's the fact that you are there with them that's the big thing. It wasn't nearly as traumatic as I thought it would be for him, it was quite peaceful and the vet scheduled it at the end of the day when it was quiet and they gave him the la-la sedative and shortly after the phenobarbitol. They were super compassionate, and I couldn't wait any longer to put him out of his pending misery so that's the way it had to me.

Roni has to be at home, but that's a whole long story which has nothing to do with the way I feel about one cat over the other. I just hope when the time comes, I can find someone relatively quickly.

I wonder why they keep the owners away from the exotics? And that statement about the "owners don't want to see" is a little off-putting, IMHO that receptionist could use a little lesson is compassionate phrasing... but in the long run, I'm sure you did the right thing and now your bird is no longer feeling lousy. Especially the disorientation thing, at that point it's just to painful to watch and I understand the "we have to do it now!" feeling. I hope you are doing okay and your decision put your mind at rest, it's never easy.

 Feel better soon.

 

[pinkdagger]

Absolutely. Of course you never stop missing them, but it's better than knowing they'd be stumbling around barely able to eat or drink and obviously suffering. I think that was her compassionate answer, honestly, haha.. she sounded sincere, but what better way is there to say it? When I saw the body after, the bird had pooped and there was a bit of blood on the ankle. With such little animals, they can't use an inhalation method efficiently and it's hard to find veins in ankles that are less than 1cm around. I can respect that it's something vets want to protect owners from in case it does get messy or worse yet, the animal convulses or has involuntary actions or anything. It's a bit of a bummer, but until/unless they can find a more appropriate way, that's how it has to be. They can still bring peace to them in difficult times, and that's all we can ask, really.

I was at the exotic vet with one of my other birds earlier this week (they specialize in avians and reptiles, but see all animals), and saw a woman waiting in the waiting room. She'd paid and everything, didn't have a carrier or cage; I didn't know why she was still there until they called her back in, which was to see the body of her pet. I felt terrible they didn't let her wait in an examination room where she wouldn't have to hide her grief from other clients who were just waiting because she was understandably distraught when she came back out and left. I was telling my boyfriend, who was with me and has never had an animal put down, that he doesn't realize how lucky he is to not have to make that call and dread it or potentially regret it. Something about passing peacefully and relatively suddenly at home without all the suffering that warrants calling a vet beforehand is more comfortable for both people and pets.

Were you able to get in contact with the vet who would come do it at your home? I wonder if you could talk to her about Roni's condition and see if she'll be more open to an on-call situation where you'll give as much notice as possible, even if it's not an entire week. Or maybe see if your current vet has any contacts who would be willing to perform shorter-notice at-home procedures. At least then, you'll have a few options if another dire moment comes.

 

[wasabipea]

I got the referrals for the at home person from my regular vet, I live in a somewhat rural area and the two that do come to your house are booked up in advance and very non-flexible with working after hours. You'd think with what they charge, and the nature of the call - it's not like I want to schedule a rabies booster at 9 pm Sunday. The one lives very far away, almost an hour and a half - the other is somewhat closer but has all her calls intercepted by a receptionsit. I'm going to have to ask the receptionsist to have the vet call me, maybe if I talk right with her she'll be more understanding. I really don't think I'm asking a lot. I already had one appt with her that I cancelled, but I did say that when the time comes I'll be rescheduling.

I suppose that with the birds, it appears... difficult? I apologize if that's an inappropriate term, but I could see how if they can't sedate them, and the struggle with finding a vein - upsetting to an owner, I'm sure. That is a memory you probably wouldn't want. They don't use an inhalation sedative beforehand, or prescribe something you can give to them at home? That poor woman, just sitting there exposed to everyone in her time of grief.

When I took Len, they know how emotional I am, at least they let me wait in my car and  let me come in the back door when a room opened up so they didn't make me go thru that.

Your quote: "Something about passing peacefully and relatively suddenly at home without all the suffering that warrants calling a vet beforehand is more comfortable for both people and pets." I had a chat and stroking with Len, told him he was a good boy and it was ok to go - I was hoping he would go during the night. Nope. I also told Roni that she didn't have to fight anymore and she fought for so long, and it was ok to go... and she didn't. Seems rarely do they go peacefully at home.

I guess the flip side is that when you have an appt, you know when and you can spoil them rotten and give them all the love in the world before that time, if they are feeling up to accepting it. No matter what though, you're still losing a loved one. Never easy.

 

[pinkdagger]

Ohh, I see. Yeah, if you can speak with the vet themselves, they may be more lenient if they know the exact nature of the call. Understandably, they can't just drop their existing appointments and go, but even if you have an appointment an hour or two in advance where they can squeeze you in, it's way better than watching those fluctuations for a week only to cancel the call last minute.

Exotic medicine is still in its infancy compared to cats and dogs, so I was never offered any sedatives or anything. I honestly don't even know if there are any existing because their cardiac and respiratory systems are so different than mammals', so their lungs are super efficient for things like flying. I think if there are appropriate sedatives, vets reserve them for emergencies. When I lived with my parents, we were in an area that didn't have exotic vets at all. The closest avian vet, who was our regular vet, was an hour's drive away and I thought that was too much. A regular vet accepted me out of mercy, I think. To be fair, I think the woman brought her pet in to make it better (she had told the receptionist she sent her 8 year old to school that morning saying everything would be okay) and ultimately had to make the decision to euthanize. The vets were running behind schedule, so I doubt that was the nature of her appointment, which must have been even more heartbreaking.

Your vet sounds great, and so accommodating. It really is too bad they can't offer you the home visit. You're very lucky to have one that understands you and has a good working relationship with you and your cats regardless.

I think they rarely want to give up and go. By nature, they're just relentless survivors. We have and see all these pets who really don't care what chronic or terminal conditions are or what they're supposed to mean to them and how they limit them. I'm sure if they had the choice, despite the discomfort, they'd stick around for any affection and spoiling they can get! It's like being full, but wanting to eat more cake. You know in the long run (or in the animals' case, we know), it's not worth it when you get horribly sick and upchuck it, but for now, it's tasty and it's so rewarding. Why would anyone want to give it up? But like you said in one of your earlier posts, these are the "golden years" where it should be cake time all the time for them.

 

 

[betsygee]

 
I have to learn to do subQs at home though, she is a really good girl going to and being at the vets for them... but I'm such a wimp about it. Her skin is so thin and delicate, I'm afraid I"m going to poke the needle right thru her. She's been going nightly to get her thru this crisis, and is so used to it, the stress it puts on her is low. She really is a good girl.

Our kitty Molly that we just lost to kidney disease was difficult to administer the subq.  She also had very thin skin and the first couple of times I tried, I stuck it right through, and also stuck myself....it was awful.  But then the vet showed me a better way to do it--you have to just grab as much skin as you can between your thumb and forefinger.  Roll it a bit to make sure you get a feel of the 'space' there and then put the needle in.  Once she'd showed me the technique, I was able to do it after that.  Ask your vet to show you or even have you help.  It's amazing what we can learn to do for our furry babies, isn't it?!  

 

[wasabipea]

Hi again betsygee! Hope you are doing well and your pack-o-cats are readjusting to life without beautiful Molly. Roni had been doing great, back to her old self for the most part - even though she is sleeping a bit more than she usd to, and not quite as active, but probably still recouping - rough go last time. I posted some pics of my Len in the Rainbow Bridge section, I feel like his loss got lost in her sickness, and he deserved so much better.

They did show me at the vets office how to "tent" between the shoulder blades, and how to feel for the pocket between skin and muscle. Someone else in the thread also suggested sliding the skin onto the needle rather than sticking her... but I can't bring myself to do it. I feel terrible and whimpy, especially since I had to give my mother injections and was able to do that - but the needle was much smaller. I guess I feel like I'm, hurting her and I'm afraid that when I try to focus on the bag once she gets stuck, she'll bolt.

Roni doesn't flinch when they do it, and she only gets 200cc tops, so it doesn't take long. I live alone - she knows what she can get away with me alone (pretty much everything), but at the vets office, she behaves and never gives them a problem - we take the top part of her carrier off and let her feel secure in the bottom part, she buries her head and just sits there and takes it no problem, little stress. I think she could sense my fear and trepidation at home and would take advantage of that, so for now I'm opting for vet - especiallly since she is so good in the car and doesn't get scared anymore and at their office it's over with in a snap. I think keeping her in the lower part of the carrier rather than having her exposed helps her a lot.

I do have to suck it up and learn though, I guess I'm squeamish - bottom line. The tech told me I should practice on a hand towel that is bunched up slightly, stick the needle in and once I feel it break the surface to stop, that would be very similar to what doing it to her would feel like, I'm sure the one time I do it correctly it will be fine... it's just the first time. She has gone from daily subQs, to every other day, and after a few more, I'll take her in every 3 days and see where her bloodwork stands in a coupld of weeks. Her numbers are not that bad, so maybe I'll do her once or twice a week from home once I see where she is at, but for now she's way past the crash.

Pinkdagger, I've learned more about exotic birds in the last couple of days than I ever knew about them before! My nephew has the sweetest cockatiel, his parents bought it for him when my nephew was too young and of course now he has lost interest since he's a teenager *shudder* - I'd love to take that bird off their hands since he doesn't get enough attnetion, he's so sweet and loves my hair. It's long and thick, and he constantly flies into it and burrows and sometimes starts weaving a nest. the thought of a bird and a cat in the same house is a but nervewracking, but Roni is pretty jaded at this point. Maybe I'll see if they want to unload the bird.

And again that poor woman, it's so hard when you think it's just an illness and find out it's terminal and you are so unprepared. When I lost Len, he was declining so I took him to an emergency clininc, he stayed the night and then we went straight to my regular vet the next day where she confirmed the cancer and edema and was gently suggesting to put him down then. I couldn't do it then, I had to let him have one night back at home first - but once I saw how fast he was going, I brought him back the next day to be PTS. At least I got one last day/night with him.

...And your line about the Golden Year kitties where they "should have cake all the time" - I loved that! So true

This thread is getting way long, I wonder if it's going to get locked? I am learning a lot though, and I'm no stranger to kitty care so I appreciate all the input from the Pet Veterans!