Cat Introduction .... Failure?

[calicosrspecial]

Today I catched him peeing on the mat infront of the litterbox. Nothing was up today. He got lots of cuddles. Monty left the door completly alone. No room for negative interactions between the two of them. No fight in the household. Nothing. Everthings was as it has always been.
He's just demanding food. The only thing is he's hungry. But we don't feed him when he demands it. It's 7 o'clock and they get fed on 7:30. Everyday. It's nothing new.
I played with him and went in the kitchen to eat dinner. Now I come back and I see him scratching on the mat like he would bury it.

I just thought his peeing got better. But clearly it's not and I don't know why. I'm really irritated.

Everything else between him and Monty is going fine, hadn't had a major incident in a while. It's slowly coming together, but this peeing has to stop.

Something is happening. Cats don't want to go outside of the litter box. It is a sign he is crying for our help. Please try not to be upset with him. I know it is hard but he is crying for our help. We just need to figure out what is going on. The fact he seemed to want to cover it (like they would naturally to hide their scent) tells me he doesn't want to do this. So I am wondering if it is medical (pain or infection) related. I would really like him to see the vet if at all possible.

Also, cats are really sensitive to stress so even though I know it is hard just try to understand and accept that he is crying for help and try to keep your stress as low as possible so it doesn't affect him.

Cats instinct is to cover their scent so we have instinct in our favor. We will stop the peeing. I would like to rule out medical.

Poor guy. We'll help him. I am back now so we can get on this again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cosmo is becoming quite the escaper. We now had two incidents where he either climbed over the door while someone was opening it or dashes right out after finishing eating. Monty's hunting instincts (as I call them) set in as soon as Cosmo runs past him. Today I catched Monty mids running after him, I was surprised how more or less calm he was. My bf catched Cosmo and brought him back in the bedroom and Monty was acting all normal again.
The other time (last week?) we didn't reacted fast enough and Monty ran after Cosmo and on to the Cattower, I don't know exactly what they were doing but it seemed like Monty wanted to dominate Cosmo. Seperated them immidiatley and other than being a little hyperactive nothing happend. They weren't acting up at the door, noone peed and I could just handfeed them treats in the same room that day. So they rebound very very quick.
Just don't really know how to handle the next step and if they are ready

Last post of 3.

Interesting. If possible try to step up play to drain some of his energy.

It is normal for a cat to chase a running animal (other cat, rabbit etc). It is their hunting instinct.

The fact they rebound quickly is a positive.

Also, the fact there weren't any negative instances after the chases/escapes is a positive. So I don't hear anything really worrying.

So I would like to do a few things. First, get Cosmo checked out by a vet. Then add another box in another part of the room away from the current box. Clean with an enzymatic cleaner where he is peeing. Also, step up play with him to build more confidence and feed after. Keep feeding them by each other and distract as needed. And we will go from there.

I am more worried about the peeing and why is crying out for help than anything. The escaping/chasing is pretty normal and the fact they both rebound quickly is a great positive.

I am back now so we can work on all this. So I can respond now. Hang in there, we will get through this. I know it is tough and stressful but you are doing great work.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Welcome back! I'm glad you're back again, hope you had a good time.

Also, try to observe him to see any change in body language, or change in the way they carry themselves, etc (both for pain indications and for confidence indications).

I think I can savely rule out any medical issues, I'm working at the vet and got him checked out not long ago, other than having worms in his poop everything else is fine. He got treatment for that. He's peeing good amounts and regularly.
He's using the toilet just fine the rest of the day, it just happens when it's getting late. He'll walk around and meow and meow, those demanding meows, even if we played before dinner 3 hous earlier. He's walking with his head up high and ears pointed forward. When he get's no reaction for his meowing that's where he goes and pees there.

Also, cats are really sensitive to stress so even though I know it is hard just try to understand and accept that he is crying for help and try to keep your stress as low as possible so it doesn't affect him.

The day I caught him peeing there for the first time (all other times I just found the puddle) there was way less stress as on other days. No fighting, no shenenigans at the door, no hard times with Monty, nothing. Just a relaxed day. The only thing different was that we went to bed later than usual. This behaviour occurs around 10 or 11pm, but not everyday and only if the littercatching mat is laying infront of the litterbox.
When he's out in the livingroom there is no peeing outside the litterbox whatsoever.
We unfortunatley can't place a second litterbox in the bedroom, because there is not enough space.

I think I'll try swapping the litterboxes. The one in the bedroom has a hood on it (because litter otherwise gets everywhere) and the one in the livingroom has no lid. Maybe he doesn't like the lid? Or he finds the closed litterbox scary when it's dark. I don't know. If that's working I'll be swapping the one with the hood out with a litterbox with high walls.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you very much, it is good to be back.

That is good. The fact it tends to happen only at night and late at the same time typically does help rule out medical as well (pain, infection). It could be a negative association with the litter box at that time. It is interesting you mention about the litter catching mat. Does it happen every time the mat is there? Has it ever happened without the mat there? I wonder if he doesn't like it on his feet combined with the time of day and a change in routine (going to be later).

Does he use the litter box without the hood in the living room? If so, I think I would switch them. I typically am very cautious about changing boxes etc. I tend to add rather than switch but if there is not enough room then we may have to switch.

Also, maybe remove the litter catcher first to see if that is the issue? I wonder if that is what might be causing it as it could feel like litter and he may get confused or it could feel different or maybe even hurt (but then why only at that time of day?). But it could be the darkness combined.

We will have to try a few things. Given there weren't any stressful events before it makes me wonder if it is the mat or the lid.

Maybe something happened at that time at some point in the past. Or a light shines in at that time (the moon or something). Or it could be that he is so use to the routine (going to bed at a certain time) that he gets a little stressed at that moment.

When he walks around meowing do you sense he is a little stressed? Does he seem on edge. different? Maybe try to help him de-stress if at all possible at that time, help him get more comfortable, to relax. Just reassure him. Give love if possible, get him to purr if possible.

We'll have to try a number of things and see what works. Nothing seems obvious but there is some reason. We just need to figure it out.

So maybe we should remove the litter catching mat first? Then if that doesn't work swap litter boxes? And from the beginning try to help reassure him if he seems restless. I know it is hard when we are tired etc but even a few minutes of love and attention can go a long way.

The good news is we have instinct on our side so we should solve this pretty soon. I guarantee he does not want to go outside of the box. It doesn't sound like marking (territorial insecurity) and it doesn't sound like Monty is causing him issues so I think it is probably something pretty easy to fix. We just need to figure out what it is (the mat, the lid, etc).

Hang in there, we will figure it out.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I just wanted to check in and see how it is going. Hopefully it is getting better.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Sorry for not replying to your last post!

We think his peeing behaviour is caused by his urge to being outside of the bedroom with us. I removed the littermat and we didn't leave any clothes around for him to pee on. We played with him an hour ago and now he peed in an empty laundry basket. He doens't pee anywhere when he's not in the bedroom.

When he walks around meowing do you sense he is a little stressed? Does he seem on edge. different? Maybe try to help him de-stress if at all possible at that time, help him get more comfortable, to relax. Just reassure him. Give love if possible, get him to purr if possible.

He seems perfectly normal. Ears moved forward, tail up high. I visit him from time to time and cuddle with him and that doesn't seem to make a difference in wether or not he pees.

Overall both seem pretty relaxed regarding each other. The times when they act up at the door is usually when we wake up (hungry) or when someone comes home. It looks like they are playing. One runs at the door and jumps up with the paws at the door. The other one runs away and after he's back, it's the other ones turn to jump at the door. It look really innocent and their bodylaunguage seems great too.

I'm just not confident enough to have them both in the same room without treats.

So as we doesn't seem to be able to solve the peeing problem with Cosmo unless they are finally able to live in the same space, how do we move forward from here? What would be the next step and how do we approach it?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Please, do not feel like you have to apologize. No reason to worry. I understand a lot is going on.

Where was the laundry basket? Did the basket have used clothes in it fairly recently before he went in it? If so, was it only one person's clothes or both?

Was it at night again? Dark? Similar time of day as the other incidents?

Is it possible your clothes have the scents of other animals on them? I believe you mentioned you work at a vet clinic. Scents of other animals (cats, dogs) can definitely cause territorial insecurity or general stress or insecurity which can lead to behavioral issues especially peeing (which is a way to say "stay away" or "this is mine").

Do you think he is getting stressed by being in the bedroom while "life" is going on in other parts of the house? Does he seem more anxious? Not himself? If so, is it possible to "check in" on him to try to ease the stress?

Was there anything that happened that was negative by the litter box in the bedroom?

Does he ever go when you are in the room with him or always when you are somewhere else?

It doesn't seem like it is his relationship with Monty. Cats really don't go outside of the litter box due to "spite" in my experience. Now if they feel like territory is being taken away from them then it could be a territorial insecurity issue. Where they think "that" territory was taken away from me so maybe "this" territory is going to be taken away from me. But does he really spend that much time in the other parts of the house?

I understand your concern about not having them together without treats. But to your next point, we are going to have to start working with them without treats. So what we will do is feed treats and then supervise them together distracting as need to keep it as positive as possible. So calling their name, just hanging out with them, getting them to be around each other but not focused on each other etc. Even if it is for 2 minutes the first time that is good. Then we work to expand that time. We have to really focus on keeping their interactions as positive as possible and avoiding any negativities. Their interactions with food/treats as a distraction will tell us a lot as to where their relationship is.

I am honestly not convinced that having access to the same territory is going to solve the peeing. I may be wrong and I hope I am. But my sense is something is going on, but I can't find it.

I would like to change the box and see if that helps. Keeping the location the same. Changing litter boxes can be challenging as can moving them. Ideally I like to add another box in a different location addressing the size of the box and the privacy etc. BUT I know that isn't really possible in your situation. So I think giving him a different box may be a good option to see if that might be it.

Hang in there. The cat's instinct is to use their litter box and cover their scent so we do have instinct in our favor. We just have to keep investigating and see what is bothering him. Just try to stay positive with him and try to keep his stress at a minimum.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Where was the laundry basket? Did the basket have used clothes in it fairly recently before he went in it? If so, was it only one person's clothes or both?

Was it at night again? Dark? Similar time of day as the other incidents?

Is it possible your clothes have the scents of other animals on them? I believe you mentioned you work at a vet clinic. Scents of other animals (cats, dogs) can definitely cause territorial insecurity or general stress or insecurity which can lead to behavioral issues especially peeing (which is a way to say "stay away" or "this is mine").

The laundry basket was next to my bf's wardrobe so the cats can#t open it. There were freshly washed clothes in the basket. It were his clothes, it's also his clothes where the peeing mostly happens (more because I put my cloth away immidiatley to avoid getting them soaked in pee.
I remeber him peeing on my boyfriendsclothes fairly recently, in that same laundry basket. Maybe there was residue left of the pee. Anyway I cleaned it with a special cleaner for cat pee so it should be fine now.


It was around like 6 pm? It was getting a little darker but it was not nighttime.

I don't think it was the scent of other animals, because my bf doesn't work with animals and the clothes were freshly washed. We agreed to putting the clothes away immidiatley to avoid futher incidents.

Do you think he is getting stressed by being in the bedroom while "life" is going on in other parts of the house? Does he seem more anxious? Not himself? If so, is it possible to "check in" on him to try to ease the stress?

Was there anything that happened that was negative by the litter box in the bedroom?

Does he ever go when you are in the room with him or always when you are somewhere else?

He's been a really vocal cat since we got him, but if he's alone in the bedroom he starts meowing execessively from time to time. He was okay with being in the bedroom when we got him and most of the time now, but now that he's very comfortable with the rest of the flat he wants to be every where. When he's out of the bedroom he's not meowing that much. He doesn't seem anxious at all, he appears to not understands why he's not allowed in the rest of the flat.
He also doesn't seem to notice that Monty does not like him that much at the moment, because everytime they met (either accidently or the few times at the beginning) he was just walking towards him all friendly wanting to make a new friend, completly ignoring Monty's behaviour.

Even if I check in on him he doesn't really seem to care. I pet him and spend time with him, but he wants to be out and about with Monty.

I can't think of anything negative regarding the litterbox.

He only goes when noone is there. I caught him one time because I heard him scratching the littermat afterwards.

It doesn't seem like it is his relationship with Monty. Cats really don't go outside of the litter box due to "spite" in my experience. Now if they feel like territory is being taken away from them then it could be a territorial insecurity issue. Where they think "that" territory was taken away from me so maybe "this" territory is going to be taken away from me. But does he really spend that much time in the other parts of the house?

I am honestly not convinced that having access to the same territory is going to solve the peeing. I may be wrong and I hope I am. But my sense is something is going on, but I can't find it.

I was thinking, if he feels like his territory is being taken away, maybe having them live in the same territory in the near future would solve the problem, because we wouldn't take his territory away anymore. I don't know honestly, the only thing we can really do at the moment is not giving him anything to pee on.

I would like to change the box and see if that helps. Keeping the location the same. Changing litter boxes can be challenging as can moving them. Ideally I like to add another box in a different location addressing the size of the box and the privacy etc. BUT I know that isn't really possible in your situation. So I think giving him a different box may be a good option to see if that might be it.

I will try changing litterboxes today, as he's in the bedroom. Maybe a litterbox without a hood would simply solve out problem haha.

I understand your concern about not having them together without treats. But to your next point, we are going to have to start working with them without treats. So what we will do is feed treats and then supervise them together distracting as need to keep it as positive as possible. So calling their name, just hanging out with them, getting them to be around each other but not focused on each other etc. Even if it is for 2 minutes the first time that is good. Then we work to expand that time. We have to really focus on keeping their interactions as positive as possible and avoiding any negativities. Their interactions with food/treats as a distraction will tell us a lot as to where their relationship is.

I'll hopefully have time to try that aswell today, I'm a little nervous, because Monty is really food motivated and distracting him wizhout it is a bit difficult.
What about distracting with toys? Or would that be risky in terms of falsely interpreting eachothers bodylanguage?

 

[calicosrspecial]

The laundry basket was next to my bf's wardrobe so the cats can#t open it. There were freshly washed clothes in the basket. It were his clothes, it's also his clothes where the peeing mostly happens (more because I put my cloth away immidiatley to avoid getting them soaked in pee.
I remeber him peeing on my boyfriendsclothes fairly recently, in that same laundry basket. Maybe there was residue left of the pee. Anyway I cleaned it with a special cleaner for cat pee so it should be fine now.


It was around like 6 pm? It was getting a little darker but it was not nighttime.

I don't think it was the scent of other animals, because my bf doesn't work with animals and the clothes were freshly washed. We agreed to putting the clothes away immidiatley to avoid futher incidents.



He's been a really vocal cat since we got him, but if he's alone in the bedroom he starts meowing execessively from time to time. He was okay with being in the bedroom when we got him and most of the time now, but now that he's very comfortable with the rest of the flat he wants to be every where. When he's out of the bedroom he's not meowing that much. He doesn't seem anxious at all, he appears to not understands why he's not allowed in the rest of the flat.
He also doesn't seem to notice that Monty does not like him that much at the moment, because everytime they met (either accidently or the few times at the beginning) he was just walking towards him all friendly wanting to make a new friend, completly ignoring Monty's behaviour.

Even if I check in on him he doesn't really seem to care. I pet him and spend time with him, but he wants to be out and about with Monty.

I can't think of anything negative regarding the litterbox.

He only goes when noone is there. I caught him one time because I heard him scratching the littermat afterwards.




I was thinking, if he feels like his territory is being taken away, maybe having them live in the same territory in the near future would solve the problem, because we wouldn't take his territory away anymore. I don't know honestly, the only thing we can really do at the moment is not giving him anything to pee on.




I will try changing litterboxes today, as he's in the bedroom. Maybe a litterbox without a hood would simply solve out problem haha.



I'll hopefully have time to try that aswell today, I'm a little nervous, because Monty is really food motivated and distracting him wizhout it is a bit difficult.
What about distracting with toys? Or would that be risky in terms of falsely interpreting eachothers bodylanguage?

How is the relationship between your boyfriend and Cosmo? Is it more standoffish? Does your boyfriend kind of not like him? Not that he does anything negative but just doesn't have that loving vibe? Is it possible to get your boyfriend to feed him, to possibly play with him, show him some attention? If he isn't doing that already? Basically, to get them closer and to get Cosmo to feel a bond with him? If it doesn't exist already?

Great to make sure clothes are not left out.
It is VERY COMMON for a cat to get restless or have behavioral issues when they have access to territory (like the rest of the house) and then have it "taken" away by having to go back into a room etc. It is not that the intent of the human is negative. It is a tricky balance. Since cats are territorial any time territory is threatened or taken away it can cause issues. I am wondering if this is the issue. That since the other parts of the house are "taken way" (in his eyes) then he feel insecure and has to mark "his territory" to try to feel like he owns that.

Is it possible to keep him out and about in the house with you all around and then when it is time to go to bed have him come in with you for the night? How do you think Monty would react? I do think they are close but I am not sure they can be together without supervision yet.

I wrote that paragraph before I read your next thought. So I started coming around to your thinking during this post.

With this post I think my prior concern (that having him in the same territory may not solve the issue) is not correct. This post does sound like maybe it is more concern about territory than I previously thought. Your instinct about him getting more territory access is a theory I am wondering might be the issue. The key is really to try to keep them supervised in a positive encounter situation as much as possible. It sounds like Cosmo is going to want to say hi to Monty and Monty is not yet ready for that so trying to keep them focused on something else and watching for any negativity is important. I don't think Monty wants to hurt Cosmo but we have to keep them as positive as possible as we don't want to slip back into negativity.

Changing the litter box is worth a try.

Make sure you stay as calm and confident s possible. I know it is hard when we are worried about a negative encounter but our emotions have a huge impact on cats. Distracting with toys is very good. It usually focuses them on the toy but there is a risk Cosmo will join in and then they could get into it since the emotions/hunting is running high. If your boyfriend can play with one while the you play (distract) with the other it can be very positive. The key again is to watch them and try to limit any negativity.

Also, making sure there are many places to hang out (cat trees, bedding, looking out windows, etc) where they can be in the same space but not in each others space. Anytime they are together without being focused on each other is positive and trust and confidence building.

It is tricky but we all go through this process. This is the last piece of the puzzle. Getting them together without incident. If you sense tension or risk of negativity try to distract and avoid it. If you can safely give love or hang out with one cat (without being at risk of being hurt in anyway) that is a tactic that can be very helpful BUT you do not want to be at risk of being hurt. Sometimes when a cat is on your lap or chest etc and getting love and purring with the other cat around the positive encounter can build a lot of trust and confidence. But if you have any fear of being at risk of being hurt do not do this.

You have great instincts with cats so trust your instincts. Just watch their body language, stay as calm and confident as possible, watch to see if they are starting to get anxious or negative and try to safely distract when needed and give them a lot of options to hang out without being focused on each other. Watch how they react after (how fast they rebound). If a cat is acting differently, hiding, avoiding areas of the other cat, then we have an issue but if they aren't then things are going well. Really observe them.

Cosmos doesn't seem to fear Monty so that tells me that Monty does not want to hurt him. Monty still seems uncertain about Cosmo's intent but that is common for the resident/existing cat. We may have to let them work it out a bit but let's see how they do. Just try to keep it as positive as possible and distract as needed.

When was the last time they had a negative encounter and acted differently for a while after it?

 

[RocketPuppy97]

How is the relationship between your boyfriend and Cosmo? Is it more standoffish? Does your boyfriend kind of not like him? Not that he does anything negative but just doesn't have that loving vibe? Is it possible to get your boyfriend to feed him, to possibly play with him, show him some attention? If he isn't doing that already? Basically, to get them closer and to get Cosmo to feel a bond with him? If it doesn't exist already?

Cosmo simply loves everyone. He's a real purrmashine and is really happy when anyone of us is present.

Is it possible to keep him out and about in the house with you all around and then when it is time to go to bed have him come in with you for the night? How do you think Monty would react? I do think they are close but I am not sure they can be together without supervision yet.

We started having him over with us in the bedroom a few nights ago and he loved it, he slept next to my head and Monty didn't get to wake us up an hour before breakfast so that was really nice xD. But I think we can't keep Monty just in the bedroom without him becoming cranky and possibly breaking some stuff.


I cleaned the littermat again and made sure to do this properly, in order to figure out if he has a problem with the mat too of if it's really a territory thing.

Hey's sleeping with us tonight and in my dreams that will make the peeing also better. haha.

I didn't get around to have them in the same room today, but I'll hopefully give it a try tomorrow.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cosmo simply loves everyone. He's a real purrmashine and is really happy when anyone of us is present.



We started having him over with us in the bedroom a few nights ago and he loved it, he slept next to my head and Monty didn't get to wake us up an hour before breakfast so that was really nice xD. But I think we can't keep Monty just in the bedroom without him becoming cranky and possibly breaking some stuff.


I cleaned the littermat again and made sure to do this properly, in order to figure out if he has a problem with the mat too of if it's really a territory thing.

Hey's sleeping with us tonight and in my dreams that will make the peeing also better. haha.

I didn't get around to have them in the same room today, but I'll hopefully give it a try tomorrow.

Does your boyfriend feed Cosmo, play with him, pet him? Are his emotions positive towards Cosmo?

Where was Monty when Cosmo was sleeping with you? Were they in the same bedroom? Or were they separated by gates etc? If separated, how did Monty accept that?

Yes, we don;t want to take territory away from Monty. It really is a fine balance.

Very good on cleaning the litter mat. It has been a while since he peed on it, correct?

How did they behave today since they weren't in the same room? Any issues?

Yes, when they sleep with us and cuddle it does make things better. It does create a bond both ways.

We'll figure this out. We just have to try things and see how they respond. Keep watching Monty and how he is reacting to the things we are talking about doing. We want to make sure Monty is ok with things.

Cosmo sounds like a great cat (as does Monty). We just need to make him feel better so he doesn't feel the need to go outside of the box while making sure we don't cause Monty any issues. But I know you can do it.

If possible, keep getting Cosmo to purr especially in any area he is peeing.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Does your boyfriend feed Cosmo, play with him, pet him? Are his emotions positive towards Cosmo?

I feed both cats in the morning and the evening. He plays with him and cuddles him and loves him as much as I do (At least I think that's the case). Maybe it's just a coincidence because his clothes are laying around more often than mine, I can't tell.

Where was Monty when Cosmo was sleeping with you? Were they in the same bedroom? Or were they separated by gates etc? If separated, how did Monty accept that?

Monty was having freeroam of the rest of the flat, I think he slept on the cattower in the livingroom. We also got two new hides near the bedroom gatedoor so he could have slept there aswell. To my surprise he wasn't bothered at all, he just went straight to bed. I thought he would be really upset, because he slept with us since we got him, but he doesn't seem to care much.

Very good on cleaning the litter mat. It has been a while since he peed on it, correct?

How did they behave today since they weren't in the same room? Any issues?

Yeah it's been like 1 or two weeks since he peed on it.

They were well behaved. Minding their own business and not focusing on each other too much. The few interactions they had seemed playful to me.
We are also still feeding them infront of each other being about one foot away, Monty is sitting there fully relaxed and not looking over to Cosmo much.

We'll sowly work our way up to having them in the same room.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I feed both cats in the morning and the evening. He plays with him and cuddles him and loves him as much as I do (At least I think that's the case). Maybe it's just a coincidence because his clothes are laying around more often than mine, I can't tell.



Monty was having freeroam of the rest of the flat, I think he slept on the cattower in the livingroom. We also got two new hides near the bedroom gatedoor so he could have slept there aswell. To my surprise he wasn't bothered at all, he just went straight to bed. I thought he would be really upset, because he slept with us since we got him, but he doesn't seem to care much.



Yeah it's been like 1 or two weeks since he peed on it.

They were well behaved. Minding their own business and not focusing on each other too much. The few interactions they had seemed playful to me.
We are also still feeding them infront of each other being about one foot away, Monty is sitting there fully relaxed and not looking over to Cosmo much.

We'll sowly work our way up to having them in the same room.

It doesn't seem like your BF and Cosmo have a relationship issue so it doesn't seem like that is a cause.

It is a very good sign Monty was accepting of the change. We do need to watch him as sometimes the first time or 2 it doesn't affect them but over time it does. Watch his body language and behavior. But overall, a very good sign.

Good it has been a little while.

GREAT. That is a good sign. Well behaved and not focusing on each other. That is exactly what we want to let the other cat know there is no threat or risk. Keep trying to make every encounter as positive as possible and keep making positive associations (feeding together). It is really about building that trust between them with no negatives.

Sounds good. How they are when together will tells us a lot. We don't want to rush it but also we need to see where we are. The important thing is you feel confident they will have positive encounters when together and be able to be distracted if needed.

Given this post I think you are very close. Keep up the great work. Just keep trying to keep their encounters positive and to make those positive associations.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I switched the litterboxes about a week ago? And I noticed that, when he's in the litterbox in the livingroom (the one with the hood) he dashes out afterwarts. So I think it's time to switch to another litterbox without hood (but prefarably with high walls). As for the bedroom, we didn't find any new peestains yet, so fingers crossed the sleeping together and the litterbox switiching made a difference.

 

[di and bob]

That may be a greta idea! Cats pee outside the litterbox for three reasons....they don't like something about the litterbox or the litter, they are stressed about something, or they are hurt/ill. I would bet he does't like teh litterbox! If you need to make a litter box more pleasing looking, tehy sell great looking 'enclosures', that look like an end table, I have two and they are great for hiding a litterbox where people would readily see them. He may not mind those as much, they have much more room in them....

 

[calicosrspecial]

I switched the litterboxes about a week ago? And I noticed that, when he's in the litterbox in the livingroom (the one with the hood) he dashes out afterwarts. So I think it's time to switch to another litterbox without hood (but prefarably with high walls). As for the bedroom, we didn't find any new peestains yet, so fingers crossed the sleeping together and the litterbox switiching made a difference.

Yes, I think that is a good idea. Now, he has dashed out of the one with the hood but hasn't gone outside of it when it has been in the living room (so far, hopefully I don't jinx it). So is it the litter box or the location? Something we can't answer but I do think it is a good idea to find something without a hood. I don't know what is available in Europe but there are so fairly high walled litter boxes available in the US. I tend to go for the largest so they have some room especially if they are bigger or longer.

Great that so far no issues in the bedroom. We need more time but hopefully he is feeling more territorially secure and less stressed. And of course as he is less stressed and does less "bad" things then we get less stressed which he picks up on and feels less stress.

It really is detective work. Observing the behavior, body language, response to changes, etc. Trying things to see if they don't (or do) do things. It is a process but so far there is some interesting observations. Let's hope we are on to something.

Please keep us up on any developments. Fingers crossed. We will solve it, just how long it takes is the question.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I don't really know how to handle the next step. I didn't feel ready to have them together today, so I played with both seperatley and started feeding them treats by the door. I thought I would try something new so I stood up and tried to get them to move with me and I noticed Monty trying to grab Cosmo by the neck for a short moment. I sat back down and gave them the last treats at the door again before I seperated them. Monty got to nervous for my liking and I'm not sure where to start really. As soon as the bedroom gate opens and we let Cosmo out, there would be no chance of getting him under control with treats, he want to be in the livingroom immidietly. And I think that's where Monty's problem lays. He really doesn't like that.
I don't know how I would keep them both busy without being a human treat dispenser. Maybe Monty would play in that kind of situation but I don't know what Cosmo would do.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I know how you are feeling and I have felt it and gone through it many times. Don't worry, we will get through it.

So the most important thing is to try to be as calm and confident around them as possible. Any sense of anxiousness on our part can be picked up by them.

It is fine if you didn't feel ready to have them together today. Just chose your moments when you feel is best.

Playing with them separately is great. Was a barrier up at the time or were they in their respective rooms without a barrier?

It is possible Monty still had some energy in him after the play so directed that to Cosmo. So we'll want to get them to be more relaxed and drained of energy before they can have access to each other.

The Monty grabbing Cosmo by he neck is a dominance thing most likely. How did Cosmo act after it? Was he different or did he act like nothing happened?

Monty was a bit nervous or bit anxious after this encounter. What we want to do is to try to reassure him, calm him down. So talk to him lovingly. Try to get Cosmo in a different space. Get Monty more into "his" territory. Anything to reassure him that everything is ok.

Now to the neck grabbing. My ferals do this all the time. It looks scary, rough, terrible. But if they don't hurt each other and they rebound right away then it is not the worst thing. Ideally we don't want this but it is not the end of the world IF Cosmo is not hurt or injured and if Cosmo acts normally afterwards. Monty is trying to tell Cosmo who is boss. And sometimes cats just need to "work it out". I am not yet there where we have to have them "work it out" but we may have to in the future.

Yes, Cosmo will run into the living room if the gate is open. And this could set off Monty. That is normal. Monty still probably doesn't feel totally secure yet. So we have to keep taking small steps forward. I would like to get more indications that Monty can be distracted. So be in Monty's territory and try to distract Monty with a toy or calling him. See if you can get him away from Cosmo while the gate is there. Getting Monty to look away is an important step. To understand how well we can distract not using treats. I also want to get some things (clothes, etc) with Cosmo's scent on them and place them around in Monty's territory (especially in the living room). his is to get them to share the space more by scent.

Do you think Cosmo running is what Monty gets upset with or do you think if Cosmo is in Monty's territory that is what is bothersome?

At some point we will see how they play together (if they focus on the toy or if they focus on each other - really Monty on Cosmo). That will tell us a lot but again that is something we will try in the future.

Don't worry, the fact Monty does not want to kill Cosmo tells me they will get along. I do want to understand what happens after Monty grabbing Cosmo's neck as that will tell us a lot.

Don;t worry, we will get there. This is always the hard part but there is so much positive so far I have no doubt it is WHEN they will get along NOT IF.

So for the next steps let's work on you distracting Monty away from Cosmo with you in Monty's territory with the gate up. Let's see how easy it is but only with calling his name etc and also with a toy/play.

If you can get video of them as well that could be very helpful.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Just for more detail to my last post -

So our next goal is to get Monty to break his focus on Cosmo (using something positive - play, love if safe, talking to him but not food). So to get Monty to look away, focus on something other than Cosmo. Starting with the gate being there and eventually with no gate (when we feel like we can distract him). You should be in Monty's territory when doing this, getting him to move away from Cosmo, turning his back on him, taking his eyes of Cosmo. And watch how he does it - his body language, etc. We want Monty to trust Cosmo more, accept him. To be like "this other stuff - toys, mom, etc" are more interesting and fun and better than messing around with Cosmo. And feel free to praise him when he does it.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Playing with them separately is great. Was a barrier up at the time or were they in their respective rooms without a barrier?

The gate at the bedroomdoor was between them, I first played with Monty and then with Cosmo. Monty was watching when I played with Cosmo and wasn't bothered by it.

It is possible Monty still had some energy in him after the play so directed that to Cosmo. So we'll want to get them to be more relaxed and drained of energy before they can have access to each other.

Monty has endless energy, he would play until he would drop dead. It's nearly impossible to get him tired.

The Monty grabbing Cosmo by he neck is a dominance thing most likely. How did Cosmo act after it? Was he different or did he act like nothing happened?

I dpn't think he really noticed what Monty tried to do. He just trilled and looked confused and then proceeded eating his treats.

es, Cosmo will run into the living room if the gate is open. And this could set off Monty. That is normal. Monty still probably doesn't feel totally secure yet. So we have to keep taking small steps forward. I would like to get more indications that Monty can be distracted. So be in Monty's territory and try to distract Monty with a toy or calling him. See if you can get him away from Cosmo while the gate is there. Getting Monty to look away is an important step. To understand how well we can distract not using treats. I also want to get some things (clothes, etc) with Cosmo's scent on them and place them around in Monty's territory (especially in the living room). his is to get them to share the space more by scent.

They are doing brilliant at the gate. They mostly don't care about what the otherone is doing. If someone is coming home from work or someone is moving around in the hallway where the gate is they will sometimes play at the door. A few days ago I found them tossing a small cardboard thing under the door between each other. It's just the thing when the gate is not there. With the gate, there is no problem distracting Monty with play or something else, but when there is no gate and no treats Monty doesn't feel it yet.
We also swap the cats daily so that everything smells like both. Sometimes Monty sleeps in the livingroom and somtimes Cosmo does and that's also fine with him.

Monty's only problem is when Cosmo is where he can touch him.



Today we had a little opsie. Monty is staying in the bedroom today, everything was fine, they both got alot of playtime today. I was at work when that happend so I can just say what my bf told me.
He was moving around the flat in and out of the bedroom, he thought he closed the bedroom door/gate properly, but didn't so Monty got out and met Cosmo in the hallway. From what I know from my cats, I think Cosmo tried to approach Monty in a friendly and submissive manner (head tilted to the side held low) and Monty grabbed him by the neck and threw him on the ground. That's when my bf noticed the sounds coming from the hallway, he clapped so Monty would let go of Cosmo and as soon as Cosmo ran away, Monty ran after him. He seperated them quickly and seemed to have handled the situation well. Cosmo was a bit hyperactive for around 15~ minutes running up and down the hallyway, but he wasn't scared or majorly upset. Monty was meowing a bit but nothing out of the ordinary not angry or upset or something. My boyfriend started playing with Cosmo at the gate again and Monty was watching them quietly.
That all happend about an hour ago and they are completly back to normal now.

For the "fight" no fur was flying, no bushy tails, growling or hissing.

My boyfriend also made the suggestion of letting them work the rest out, but I'm not quiet sure that's the best idea. The hunting thing is the same as always. Monty doesn't want to kill him, but Cosmo is still running away and being thrown on the floor.