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Aggressive Resident - It Just Got Real. No Idea How To Help Him.

Discussion in 'Cat Behavior' started by FeralHearts, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Jul 4, 2018
    So as some of you know I've had to bring in several of the Ferals over the last few months due to blockages and accidental neighborhood poisonings.

    To say it's been a challenge is an understatement but things are getting nasty.

    Charlie - resident kitty has become more aggressive than normal. Now I expected some trouble. I expected this to be hard and I'm taking things really slow as a result. Really slow. I had no illusions this was going to be easy.

    Over the weekend I had my friend stay as she's from out of town and needed a place to crash for an appointment early the next day. He cornered her. He made a noise I've never heard him make before and it was angry. When I went upstairs she was pushed into a corner by him and he was scary. He's never done that before. She was really scared of him. It was so bad I locked him in my room with me for the night.

    He's done something similar to her before - but not this bad. She does have two cats at home but the PJ's she had one were fresh washed - this doesn't mean he didn't smell the cats on her bag or other clothes mixed in

    The night before he's been biting Mia (first Feral) in the neck. She runs from him and sometimes hits him back.

    Charlies always yowls / cries at night. Last night it was unusually loud.

    Tonight I walked into Mia's room, Charlie was sitting outside it and he went for me. Mia barely leaves her safe room. She's never ventured past the first set of stairs and that's a rare thing she'll do that. She's is scared.

    I lost as to how to help him. I'm lost as to what to do and I'm worried the situation is not going to work out.

    Charlie has always had some issues with aggression (I think redirected aggression) and in a large part this is my fault for not dealing with it sooner. Occasionally he'll just turn and attacked your leg or bit you hard. He makes a warning sounds before he does it, but there is no stopping him when he makes that noise. Basically - run. He's almost schizophrenic I swear.

    He is a very loving cat too. Sleeps beside my head. etc.

    Timeline of cats and other issues:

    Situation 1 - Mia brought in in June for a blockage. He barely tolerates her. One second sweet with her, lying down with her, next second - he'll try to mount her or bite her and hiss at her. He's not hissed in awhile, except at me this past weekend.

    Situation 2 - End of July - White label brought in - accidentally poisoning from a neighbor. She could barely breath on her own.

    Situation 3 - Neighbor had a baby, you can hear him cry sometimes through the way (I live in a backsplit semi-detached.) For a while we thought it was another cat outside - nope it's the baby.

    Things started to go at the is point a bit worse. Nothing bad though.

    Situation 4 - Braveheart brought in to be with White Label as not to leave her out alone. (Mia, White Label and Braveheart are litter mates / sisters - all feral). She was brought in Sat the 8th of September.

    Braveheart and White Label have not be introduced to Charlie - not the right time - but they will have to be.


    Mia in a safe room - door is always open , she is free now to roam after slow intro to Charlie.

    W.L and braveheart blocked off with a makeshift wall in the rec-room together. (Their issues are a whole other ballgame.)

    Charlie is blocked upstairs every night with a double gate as the wall can be breached if someone really wants too. If the house is empty - one kitty gate during the day. The rest of the time he is free to roam

    I've tried Feliway - it makes Charlie worse.

    They are all fixed.

    Thoughts, suggestions, questions? Has anyone else had this happen? Did it work out in the end? I'm certainly willing to give it all the time it needs.

    I am really scared this is not going to work out at all.

    Edit to add: Mia hides behind me when Charlie comes into her safe room.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018

  2. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    Hi! I'm really sorry to hear this! Would you want to try something stronger than an over the counter calming product, or a different otc product? CBD oil?
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  3. Jcatbird

    Jcatbird TCS Member Top Cat

    Dec 5, 2017
    Southern U.S.
    Hey! Got some suggestions for you. First , get him checked to make sure there is no physical pain. When pain hits an animal they often don’t understand what caused it and they lash out at the nearest thing in the mistaken idea that this is what hurt them. It could be a bad tooth, urinary pain, arthritis or anything that strikes him. If he is physically okay I would then suggest you make sure that there are no male or female mating scents around. Even if cats are fixed they can exhibit mating behavior. I see it a lot. Scents trigger it.
    Cats also have a pecking order. The term top cat says it all. Each group of cats has a ranking of who is top and then down from there. Charlie may be trying to tell everyone, I was here first and I am top cat. When this is established with all, then he should relax. ( but I don’t think that is what is going on)
    Now, a bit of a different thought that I have dealt with recently and previously. Cats can get jealous of you devoting your attention to others. Both people and cats. Since I know a bit of your history I am thinking he has seen a lot of your time being spent on others. I am suggesting a form of jealousy or just feeling a bit neglected or lost in the shuffle. It happens. I have a female feral who never bit, scratched or exhibited any aggressive behavior before. She sleeps by my head. A young male sleeps beside me and a female at my feet. The male had come from an abusive situation and I had been giving him , much needed, snuggling and attention. The feral observed this for some time. I failed to notice the signs of her back turned , ears held down and twitching tail until she became aggressive. She was getting scary! She was really biting me. Then it hit me that I had turned my attention to the young male every night and had stopped making a fuss over her. I started making a fuss over her again. At first she continued to bite and scratch as I petted her. I just spoke calmly to her and if she bit I told her no and put my hand down from petting but almost immediately resumed. I scratched behind her ears and under her chin where it was harder for her to bite. I persisted with her. Over a period of about a week she stayed angry but then she gave in and started enjoying the attention again. She forgave me. She is back to being the sweet ,but wild, kitty she was. Of the many, many kitties I have had in my life, I have never had one with an emotional upset that could not be solved. Charlie may be trying to dominate you right now but I think you can fix this. I know you have the love and patience. Respect him but don’t let him think you fear him. If it isn’t a physical problem causing pain then you have the power to beat this. I have every confidence in you. Let me know how things are going. If I can calm a cat named Thrasher, you can calm a cat named Charlie. Lol I really think it’s going to be okay. Try some music.
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  4. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    I was thinking about you, and had the same thought that @Jcatbird did, of music :), but also of whether Charlie-baby is hurting in some way...

    :vibes::goodluck: :crossfingers: :hugs:
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  5. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Jul 4, 2018
    Edit to add: wow this is a longer post than I thought it would be. Sorry about that. I think I might have broken a record!! :winkcat:

    Thanks. *sniffs* At least I didn't go into it thinking it was going to be a walk in the park - that would have been a system shocker!

    I have absolutely no issues trying anything that will be for his betterment. So I'm very willing to try CBD. I know a fair bit about how it helps people but little about cats. So I'm doing some homework now as I think that is a very good suggestion - for a number of reasons. Now one of the downsides I read is it could cause a GI upset. I'll have to read some more about that as he does have an unidentified GI issue and I'm sure of it, even with that, it says it can help inflammation - which I suspect one of his GI issues. Could be a win-win.

    Do you have any brands you would recommend at all?

    On a funny side note: Where I live in Ontario Canada they are legalizing Cannabis plants, 3 per household as of Oct 17, 2018. The rules are in place for driving, the legal age for consumption, where etc. Now - I would not feed anything like that to the cats as I KNOW the plant itself is actually very toxic to them. I just thought the timing was funny.

    I think pain of some sort is part of it. I don't think this is one thing that he's dealing with. I truly believe it's multiple factors. Some may be more than others.

    He goes to the vet annually. (One or twice he's had to go before those annuals) Blood work is good etc. but I think another vet visit is in order.

    I'm going to make arrangments to bring him to the vet the girls are seeing. Not that his Vet isn't good, but I think we need a second pair of eyes on him at this point.

    He's just turned 6 on Sept 1st. I've been struggling for a while with things I've noticed for years, bt diagnosis has been a challenge, or rather Charlie has made the diagnosis a challenge.

    The long version if you want to read it lol.

    Long health version:

    I'm actually going to drag @1 bruce 1 and @huxleysmom into this apart as they have kitties with IBD and I wonder how their kitties were diagnosed and what kitties symptoms are. What tests were needed etc. @1 bruce 1 IBD kitty and Charlie seem to have some things in common, Asthma, GI issues, and possible chicken irritation. Charlie is a lynx point siamese.

    His first vet was unfortunately not good. I finally got him to a new vet 2-3 years ago. She's lovely and is actually taking what I tell her seriously. The last vet was always "Don't worry, he's young". That was the standard answer for every question. The last time I was in was the final straw, they were so distracted they couldn't tell me if they gave him a rabies shot - that btw - he wasn't due for. That was it - I was done. (I probably told you guys this before - if I did sorry for the repeat.)

    So most of his life it's been five things:
    • His poop is like rocks most of the time. On the Waltham Faeces scale - 1 - 1.5. This can't be comfortable for him. Occasionally it goes into that wet flat ragged-edged poop. (Poop like that I know is inflammation caused.) Occasionally the stool feels very 'Airey' is the only way to describe it. This is one of the issues I'm constantly addressing with the vet. He drinks a lot so it's not a lack of water intake. I've been reading a lot about this lately as I am determined to get to the bottom of it.
    • He sometimes chews the back of his leg - raw. A line of no fur all the way down the back of one leg. Possible stress? (Yet there are no bugs etc)
    • He sometimes gets a swollen lumpy bottom lip.
    • His skin looks a little dry. He hates being brushed and prefers a light, soft petting.
    • He sounds like an elephant when he walks / runs. Dante? Quiet? Stealthy? Only sometimes. His original untrustworthy vet mentioned once in passing his back was not quite perfect.
    • He occasionally throws up - often it's because he's eaten to fast.
    • Asthma that is under control.

    His new vet thinks he might have a chicken allergy/sensitivity.

    Problem: Charlie will NOT let me change his food. I have tried 100 different ways. So I have been unable to test that theory - and that's all it is. He literally will starve himself. That being said - he does wear me down after 2 weeks. I may have to toughen up and keep trying. I removed the Wellness chicken from his feeding but some of the others still have some chicken in them. There was no change though when I removed the main source of chicken. I'm highly suspect over that being the cause. While he may be sensitive to something - I don't think this is the main cause of his poop issue. The main cause would appear to be not enough water actually being absorbed? At least imho.

    There probably are as we have a lot of stray cats, ferals - and people who let unfixed cats out - in the area. Is tere anything I can do indoors to help minimize him sensing that.

    He often looks like he's not only trying to dominate Mia - he does look like he's trying to mate with her.

    Me either - but only because he's already let Mia know over and over again he's the boss and her reaction appeared to be that she accepted that.

    What surprises me with him is he has never once tried to steal her food. Bury it from predators with that fake scratch-paw-on-ground-movement - but never push her from it or anything.

    I know cat behaviorists say cats don't get jealous but like you - I believe they do.

    I tested this out this morning with Mia:

    Charlie was in her safe room, she was hunkered down in the house portion of the cat tree, Charlie was relaxed when I came in, I gave him a pet and spoke to him - everything was fine. Mia came down and went right to me and hid behind me. Charlie's disposition changed. I went to pet him - yup he was mad and then he turned his back and stormed out.

    When he comes into Mia's room and I'm there or I walk in I make a fuse of both of them. I don't think that matters to him though. LOL.

    I made sure Charlies nighttime routine with me is the same, but, you are right I no doubt have been spending less time with him. I'll try to do more.

    He also hates any closed doors, or being blocked off from anything. Do you want bathroom privacy? Good luck. :lol:

    I'm very glad your kitty came around. Your positive experiences with your kitties help me hold out hope. I keep imaging the amount you have and I go "nope - Charlie wants me dead already I give him 27 more - I wouldn't last the night.":runaround:

    I do love him very much and yup - I can do patience as it's only time.

    LOl Thrasher! Love the name.

    I will try the music with him and Mia in the room. Once Charlie gets focused with that anger though - I've yet to find a way to distract him. Loud noises like clapping a hand - he's not even phased and usually that loud noise will break his focus - like chewing on something he shouldn't etc... but when he gets mad it's like he's deaf. :gaah:

    Thank you for thinking of me. XOXOX

    I'm going to try the music with Mia and Charlie together - before the violence begins - and see if that helps to keep him calm/relax enough to not want to hurt her.

    I hope I can resolve this hard poop issue as I am so very sure that even if it's not painful - he'd be uncomfortable a lot and fixing that I think would help him overall.

    Thank you both so much for being here for me all the time. One day I'll be posting other things that are happier because everyone will be settled, healthy and getting along well enough. I a determined this is going to happen!
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  6. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    lol, it is funny! I have read that someone on this site used Lazarus Naturals - which isn't to say that I'm promoting them, but it is interesting to see that they provide certificates of analysis...

    Oh Charlie baby meezer!!! :loveeyes:

    Other than a diffuser (thunderease, sentry, maybe comfort zone which I found works with my boy better than feliway) I'm not sure.

    Would a probiotic help? Tummyworks, or animal essentials plant enzymes and probiotics.

    a metal can half filled with coins given a really hard shake? It's a sound that isn't associated with you like the clapping hands...

    C'mon, Charlie - ease up and let that meezer personality get more :sunshine: , and let your mama work with you and help you :petcat::gingercat:
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  7. Jcatbird

    Jcatbird TCS Member Top Cat

    Dec 5, 2017
    Southern U.S.
    Chewing on his leg like that reminds me of birds that pluck out their feathers. It is a sign of distress. Vet. Behavior. I think these are your focus. Maybe a little alone Time with just Charlie before bed until you get to the vet. Relaxing time. I see he is often around Mia. I assume it was originally just you two? Maybe one space somewhere that is just for the two of you. Even if you have to crawl in a big cardboard box with him and keep all others out of it. Lol I frequently crawl in the carriers and cages with cats. Not so bad! :lol: That could be s good time to listen to music together. Let him associate music with relaxing time with you.
    As for the poop issue, I would check with the vet first but maybe a little olive oil in his food? Not sure if this would be okay with IBD but a phone call might give you that answer from the vet. If you think there is any chance he could be dehydrated there is cat pedialyte. Sometimes it isn’t the lack of water but an imbalance in other things in the body. You can actually drink too much water and wash out crucial nutrients. I have done that myself. My doc told me to back off the water a little! Ha! :spew:
    You just hang on. It takes time to fit all the puzzle pieces together. You’ll get there. If you get too tired we can just trade places for a day or two. :) ( notice the innocent smile! )
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  8. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

    Apr 8, 2016
    Holy macaroni.
    Just reading this...I need a nap!! About a week long!!
    This sounds like a tough situation for you, I'm so sorry. This must be stressful as heck.
    Our vet never officially "diagnosed" IBD with a scope. But they were 99.9% sure that's what he had based on his symptoms and long time GI upset and the amount of cats they've seen with the same on-going symptoms that respond well to IBD type treatments.
    He started at about 5 years old with noisy, room clearing diarrhea. You could see it, smell it, and hear it coming out (yeah, gross. REALLY gross.) This went on, on and off, for years without no real "reason" as to why he'd be fine for weeks then suddenly be having instances where watery crap was at human eye level on the wall.
    A few years ago it changed paths and one day he refused to get up to eat, so I picked him up. It's where I came up with "torpedo butt", because his rear end felt like someone had shoved a small traffic cone, base end first, up his butt. Off to the vet (not calmly) and we were fearing some horrible tumor but it was just impacted crap that needed removed by hand (poor vet) so that was done. His anal glands were also messed up.
    This happened a few times until we were able to decide what foods he could not have.
    -Raw meaty bones. NO. Everyone else, a YES but for him, NO.
    -Raw plain meat. STILL a big no.
    -Any dehydrated anything, even if we dropped 1/8 of a teaspoon into the Pacific Ocean and let it re-hydrate for a week.
    -Kibble. Some IBD cats seem to do well with nothing other than but him, NO.
    -Cows milk or cow dairy anything.
    What DOES work
    -Wet food, most varieties.
    -Pate is preferred because of the low carb load in most brands. *
    -Organ meats and tripe, all raw.
    -SMALL doses of raw (unpasteurized, un-homogenized, un-screwed with by man basically) GOATS milk.

    (* The carb thing gets me wondering about inflammatory responses, which would point to not only IBD, but the asthma both boys share as well as Charlies perhaps licking at his leg/dry skin. Not science stuff but just a thought.)

    Still, this guy usually craps every 2 days or so. It ranges from crumbly hard, to resembling half-dried pudding (if you're eating pudding right now I apologize with all my heart, LOL) or little drops of cow pie stuff or a single hard meter long cannon ball. I don't get it.
    Colostrum is helping him a little, we think. If he's crumbly, a little raw beef, chicken liver and maybe a little chicken heart or two seems to help be a laxative. Sometimes we don't feed these things at all but he still manages pudding pop butt. It's why I've lost a lot of my hair lately. ;)

    Behavior wise, he doesn't have the anger or aggression issues. He's actually annoyingly charming and kind of a hippie because he will do anything to keep everyone peaceful and happy. But he does get stressed easily but he hides it well. I've noticed some of the signs (he does certain things and lays in certain hiding places).
    9 out of 10 of my animals that show this level of aggression for little reason have had slight things going on with their liver. I'm not talking liver cancer or liver failure, but it's always kind of weirded me out a little that most of them show the same symptoms when this is brewing.

    Another one of my cats has the opposite thing and will flare up and attack himself, others (lately), and turns from a nice cat into a wild cat living in the house. If you approach him, he slinks away, turns at you and pins his ears, and hisses. He has hyperesthesia, and it causes him to twitch (the skin) on his back, get a glassy eyed stare with dilated pupils, lash out, and go after his rear end in an aggressive, obsessive way.
    What is Charlies "general" expression, just curious? Is generally bright eyed, clear eyed, or does he have a glassy look about him, or does he routinely have that "not well in the eyes" squint?

    Hang in there. We're all in this cat obsession thing together. :wave2:
    (PS if there's anything else I can help with just tag me like you did earlier. Sometimes my notifications pop the clutch and don't come through immediately!)

    Edit: I can't resist mentioning this because it will maybe give you a laugh.
    When he first was constipated and the vet said he'd need an enema, I was relieved enough that it wasn't some giant colon tumor or something horrible, so I signed the paper admitting him into the animal hospital. When the vet picked him and held him towards me and said "say "see you later!" " in a cheerful tone to the cat, I ruffled the cats ears a little and said "Well, bud, this is what I get for telling you for over a decade that you're full of shit."
    Vet laughed. Hard. :thumbsup:
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  9. Elfilou

    Elfilou TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Dec 14, 2015
    kay so first off I might have missed a few things here and there because this is a long thread I didn't have time to read everything, but I read a lot. And I am here to try and help! It sounds like your cat is suffering quite a bit and that you might not be far from him developing something like spraying, once you try to integrate the other cats.

    I think, yeah, a vet checkup is in order. Also, please get him to try other foods. My poop is definitely affected by what I eat, isn't yours? IBD in humans can also improve with diet. If he's had this problem for as long as he's been eating that then maybe he needs to eat other things. Try mixing it in very slowly? Adding just a teaspoon of the new food into the old food until he eats it without a problem, and build it up by adding another teaspoon?

    Is he overweight?

    Dogs need to be walked. Cats need to hunt and, there for, be played with every single day to be happy and healthy. And most of all so they can feel stress- and anxiety- free. What is his playtime routine like? Are you switching up toys?

    Does he have daily rituals and routines? Things that occur every single day? It's important for a cat's sense of security that he can predict what his day will look like; this could eliminate a lot of stress in a lot of cats when they can anticipate things like breakfast, dinner, snacktime, brushing and cuddling tme, play sessions, etc etc.

    Does he have window spots where he can wind down and watch outside for some cat tv?

    Enough scratching posts for marking territory? Caves to hide in? Tunnels to go in and out of? I'm not saying he needs all of those things but it's worthwhile to try out stuff like that and find out if that makes him feel more confident that he owns the territory.

    Because I think what you're describing is a very insecure cat that is seeing the gates of his territory being knocked down by more cats. But I could very much be wrong cause I havent seen him.

    All I know from reading what you've described is that I feel bad for the little guy. He has a lot of things going on with him and it just makes me feel sad.

    Lastly I suggest the book Cat Mojo by Jackson Galaxy I recommend it to any cat person.

    btw I laughed so hard at this:

    I'll be following this thread!!:redheartpump::crossfingers:
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  10. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

    Apr 8, 2016
    As a dog and horse person, I have to add to the "dogs need to walked" idea (which is very true.)
    Most dogs need to be walked.
    Some dogs need to be ran.
    Some need to be worked (physical and mental) in order to be happy.
    This is the difference between an older Basset Hound and a 1 year old Border Collie or a young Belgian Malinois living in a small home with a very non-active person.
    Some horses need a nice slow exercise once or twice a week and time to graze on pasture, and some horses need to be worked until they can hardly catch their breath. If sweat isn't rolling off them, you need to work them more because this is what they were born to do. Move, run, be active. This is the difference between your old grade mare and your young Thoroughbred.
    Never really thought about it much but I suppose some cats are like this. An elderly Persian (my guess) will need less than a 6 month old Bengal (or snowshow, that may murder you while you sleep. :lol: Just joking but aren't I kind of right, @1CatOverTheLine ?) But I wonder if this guy isn't one of those rare natural active leader types that needs to be ran and needs to hunt things on strings until he's content. :dunno: I don't know.
    Even if I was a vet (which I'm not) and even if I were there with you right now (which I'm not), I find Charlie's situation interesting enough to want to know what happens. Hoping for good news.
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  11. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Jul 4, 2018
    Guys and gals - thank you so much and again - I am so sorry for the long posts. I'm just one of these folks that likes to make sure you have all the info to work with. It's why the cats have files. One called "the poop files" LOL

    Charlie also has a heart condition - heart is at the upper limit of what his chest cavity can hold. The report said he is compensating well for it though. So that's something. Most likely born this way.

    I'll post some images too!

    Thank you xo I will look this up and put this and the pro-biotics on the list to explore and chat with the vet about.

    I looked at the thunderease jacket and sadly Charlie wouldn't tolerate it. This I am sure of. I can try a different brand like comfort zone and see how he does.

    Who is meezer? :-) Another kitty?

    That's a great idea - it might be loud enough to snap him out of it. :-)

    Yes Charlie - pleaseeeeee work with me!!!

    Exactly what I thought. The vet thinks it's part of a food allergy but all his signs say different. It's that instinct thing we speak of. :-)

    Yup totally agree, vet again and work on his behavior. A focus and gathering a plan. :-)

    More alone time we can make that happen. Our bedtime routing I have made sure doesn't get disrupted at all. It's the one thing he can count on without fail. I'll add music too.

    Yes, originally it was just the charlies and I inside. Plus all the outside Ferals I care take. FYI his full legal name is "His Royal Majesty Zombie Charlie the 1st."

    Side story: Zombie was his original name at the humane society when he was a kitten. I was suppose to foster / socialize and return as you can see - I kinda failed returning him. He nearly died from Giardia more below...

    LOL @ crawling into a cage. Picturing that - omg hilarious.

    Olive oil now on the list for the vet :-) CHECK!

    He does drink a lot of water. He refused a bowl as a child so I bought him a fountain. It is a big hit! He does drink a lot - he pees - if there was a peeing contest - he has that hands down!

    The Giardia - the more I think - the more I keep coming back to this. He had a really bad URI and blood in his poop from the Giardia. It's why he's a failed foster - when he was in the clean I couldn't let him go. He was (is) family. I've asked for his poop to be checked but it's never happened. It's dark and very light in spots. Dark to me - is blood. At least that's what I've always been taught. None of the vets seem to want to check it. I think I will take a sample with me and insist very politely.

    It is like a puzzle isn't it? Maybe once it's all done we'll get a full picture that we can use t create a beautiful masterpiece out of. :-)

    That is a very kind offer of trading places. Please do not be insulted when I say.....:noway: lol.

    I am realllllly sorry *hides head in shame* *Makes you a cup of tea*

    First off, thank you for coming :-)

    Thank you for that as well. :-) It's been tough and stressful, yes, but I have you all as support and a non-judgy place to come where people don't look at you like you're nuts. I cannot express how invaluable that is. It lets me relax and I can focus on them instead of how not to shatter into a useless million pieces. This also helps as I'm not stressed around the cats. So not added badness.

    Now that Mia and White label are no longer sitting on deaths door I can focus on Charlie and keeping everyone happy and healthy.

    Thank you - this helps a lot.

    Charlie is on wet food. Wellness. Pate. 3 times a day. He's not a free feeder. The carbs look okay on that. He gets a handful of dry food at bedtime. Royal Canin gastrointestinal fiber response. Though I am reading about that lately that it's not good food and it has a chicken main ingredient. *sighs* He refused all treats until last year when I made one more try at it and he LOVES the freeze dried Salmon from purbites.

    If I take those away - he's going to kill me - If I ever do that I will leave you with my address so that you can call the police to retrieve my cold dead body. lol

    You and I may be onto something with the similarities with the kids. Science starts with observation. :-)

    Yup LOL that's Charlie!

    [email protected] Torpedo butt, pudding butt and the loss of hair OMMG *falls over laughing*

    Charlie charms everyone - they think he's a lovely cat. When I tell them what he does - they think I'm nuts. Like it can't possibly be true... and he is often a loving cat. I've not ruled out metal illness to be honest. :eek2:

    His full w"wellness" blood test are all coming back perfect - but I am not apposed to having a specific live blood test done. I've added that to the list.

    o,O Chalrie does that! His skin often twitches and then he goes after his tail like he has no idea what it is!

    Generally varies from bright eye'd to Squinting. He has white/blue eyes and I image sensitive to light.

    I have pictures from tonight!

    How he sits sometimes. (and yes that is a small dog bed)


    You can see his bottom lip issue in this one. It started up again this last week:


    These next two are how he usually sleeps. Although often he is fully stretched out.

    An hour later:

    Mia wanted her picture too.

    So here she is:

    Hanging in :-) I'm in great company!

    LOL that is awesome OMG LMAO!

    Hi @Elfilou thank you for coming :-) and yes - sorry it is rather long. :shocked:

    Spraying being his next think crossed my mind. I'm pretending he loves me enough to skip that step and stick to biting me. This is one of the thousand reason I'm going like a snail with Braveheart and White label as I think it will send of over the edge right now. I'll be too much.

    I've been trying to get him to eat other foods for nearly three years off and on. I've added as little as 1/8th of a tsp and he knowsssssssssssss. He'll refuse. I can trick him for a day or two by sprinkling parmaseam cheese on top, or a couple of broken bits of his salmon treats but that quickly fails.

    One time it was so bad he stopped eating fully stop. I ended up putting more that a 1/2 dozen various foods out, including his usual and sat there crying begging him to eat something. It was aweful.

    His vet wasn't surprised as he is that stubborn.

    I am going to try again though. I've found a few more options that he might go for. Going to do it differently this time.

    No - he's no overweight, he is a large cat though length wise - and very long legs.

    I have a massive box of toys - he loves to shreed some one them, his favorites. Laser and wands also a favorite - though he really enjoys biting the ends of the wands off so I'm careful.

    He likes hard fast play - which - because of his heart I've been told I have to be careful with.

    I've bought all sorts of automatic toys - he's so-so on them. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Mostly no.

    I'm excited as I ordered some a few types of these:

    I plan on getting a bit container of water and seeing if they excite him. I really hope so! They should arrive very soon.

    Lately we have not had enough playtime. This is for sure. I'm correcting that.

    Yes. Some routine vary but nighttime routine I always make sure is stable.

    Feeding time is the same. When I wake up, when I come home from work and when we go to bed.

    Playtime does vary but I can get up a bit earlier and make that happen before I go to work.

    He has a window seat (bed) and a bird feeder right outside it. He loves that.

    He has another bed in the livingroom that is a dome he goes in, plus a kitty tree.

    This one:

    He loves the hammock!

    Downstairs by the computer he has another bed like the one he's pictured in above.

    He is the first one to be fed, and I make sure I make a fuss of him when I get home from work. I don't go see or feed the others until he is fed and we have a few minutes together for greetings and pets and love.

    He does fit the description of an insecure cat - but I can't figure out why he would be. Other than the amount of outside cats in the area and I can't really fix that. (He was like this long before these three girls came inside. The violence just became worse this last week - a whole new level of insane.)

    I feel bad for him too. Really bad. The last thing I want is to save the other kitties and have something bad befall him as a result.

    When I had to bring in the outside kitties I can fully admit I was concerned the behavior would worsen - I hoped if I did things slow - followed what I should etc be would be okay.

    I will look into the book.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to help.

    I do think he needs more activities but a lot of things disinterest him. It has to be with a person to - he is no content at all playing by himself. I think he is bored but rejects a lot of toys. I'll take a picture of his toy box. LOL.

    He like the round scratcher thing with a ball it in. Liek this one:

    Thank you for hoping for good news. :-) I want him happy and healthy. I know it can be done and I'm willing to do what it takes to make sure he gets there.

    It makes me so sad to see that lonely, lost look in his eyes. Like somethings not quite right but he can't tell me in words and I'm lost trying to figure it out.

    XOXOXOXOXO to you all. We will make Charlie happy! We can do this!

    Edit to add: If I'm too late for dinner at all - or if he decides he is hungry off time - he will act up until he gets something. (not often) but hop on a counter and start knocking things off, bite cables. etc. He lets me know in that special way only a cat can lol
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  12. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    "meezer" is the nickname for Siamese cats ;)

    Now that Mia and White label are no longer sitting on deaths door I can focus on Charlie and keeping everyone happy and healthy.
    This is SO AWESOME!!!

    I was thinking of diffusers too;
    ThunderEase Cat Calming Diffuser Kit

    I am going to try again though. I've found a few more options that he might go for. Going to do it differently this time.
    Along with your thinking, what about finger feeding, or sitting on the floor and spoon feed a bit of new food?
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    Jcatbird and FeralHearts purraised this.

  13. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Jul 4, 2018
    LOL thank you! I've learned something new today. MEEEZERRRR!
    Jcatbird and Furballsmom purraised this.

  14. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    Yeah - imagine all of us standing there right beside you.

    Oh, by the way, I added to the "meezer" post just above LOL, sorry about that, we cross-posted.
    FeralHearts and Jcatbird purraised this.

  15. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Jul 4, 2018
    No need for sorry I'm glad you let me know so I can read it :-)

    Yes - you will all be right there with me politely asking for a poop test. OM goodness - image if that actually happened! HAHAHAH!

    Poop - so much poop lately! LOL

    I will look into the thurderease kit in the morning more closely - I didn't realize they did a diffuser too.

    Sadly I tried with the finger - it was a no go - but that gave me an idea! Remember when I was having to take a finger of food and gently stuff it in the side of White Labels mouth? I might try that with Charlie - maybe if he actually gets a chance to taste something instead of the automatic - "NO WAY LADY! Not freakin' happening!" he Might actually taste something he'll like?
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  16. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  17. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    Oh, and Charlie is SUCH a handsome fellow, and Mia is such a sweetie!!

    I've been in your exact situation of opening can after can and being near tears because it's scary, confusing and so frustrating, getting side-eye from the rest of the household about all that food, and meanwhile The Cat is still sitting there saying MOM, I'm hungry. Geez.

    But we finally found a happy medium, well, happy for him, medium for me in that he gets a food he likes that's one that I don't, and a couple of others that we both like :) and I am sure that you will be able to do so as well. :hugs:
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  18. Jcatbird

    Jcatbird TCS Member Top Cat

    Dec 5, 2017
    Southern U.S.
    I can see that Charlie has health issues and I feel that they are a part of the puzzle. The allergy thing is nudging me. The lip, the rippling skin, the chasing the butt and just flipping out. Ever had an allergic reaction? I have. A sudden violent and burning itch, swelling of the lip, hives, stomach problems. Hmmmm. Anything different In his food or the house ( furniture, toys, cleaning fluids, bug spray , flea treatments, feliway, clothes washing powder,perfumed items, potpourri, soap, even medications you take that can be emitted through your skin? ) that was not there before the majority of his new symptoms? Think hard about that.
    I also can tell he is extremely intelligent. Sounds a lot like my Big Mac. We have Big Mac attacks anytime he escapes outside. I mean real attacks. He gets glassy eyed, hisses, growls and if I don’t handle the situation just right I get ripped. It is instant terror. Don’t know why. He was a rescue from outside so there is some association there. A friend witnessed an attack( added to it trying to “ help”) They declared him insane. Not so. ( I have seen cats made wierd by their people but never seen an insane cat) He was terrified. The instant he was back inside he reverted to a perfect gentleman. Mackie is my most intelligent cat. I call him my laughing cat because he always responds with, what appears to be, a laugh when I tell him mouse jokes. Yes, I know. I am insane, not him. Lol I have pictures of him laughing, I swear. Mackie does the attention grabbing thing too. He will get right in front of me , take his paw, turn over my glass, cup, push my plate off the table etc. and watch for my reaction. He is leukemia positive and has stomach issues. Food can be a problem. Throwing up is a problem and pooping on the edge of the litter box is an art form. He has even pooped in my cereal bowl to show me he had a problem. Totally got my attention! Cats are amazing and smart. They are like our children and behave that way. They talk the only way they can, through actions. My daughter could not speak. Because she also had limited movement I learned to understand her needs through her actions and body language. That spoke volumes. Her health had to be read as well. Charlie is talking to you. Read his actions, health indicators and body language. We already know your instincts are great. Read him as you have done the others. Trust yourself. It will all come together. And don’t eat anything in your cereal bowl that looks like pudding. Sorry. You can thank 1Bruce1 for putting that in my brain. It totally cracked me up. Love, love, love the pictures! Such beautiful kitties. I totally get their pursonalities from the pics.
    Citrus spray outside keeps cats away. Anything lemon or orange. I sometimes resort to Pledge furniture polish outside around my door. Cats hate it. Keeps the ferals from spraying there.
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  19. basschick

    basschick TCS Member Alpha Cat

    Aug 7, 2016
    you say charlie drinks and pees a LOT? has he had kidney testing done? that's the main symptoms for humans and pets of kidney issues, whether caused by diabetes or not. it might be good to get a recheck just to rule it out.

    HK had some of those symptoms you described, and it turned out he's highly allergic to fleas. he sometimes had convulsions - which our vet misdiagnosed - and will fiercely attack during those. is it possible you have a few fleas in the house?
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  20. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA

    The Pledge furniture polish is a GRAND idea - I can't stand the smell and the way it makes my airways feel, I can just about bet a cat, given a choice REALLY wouldn't like it , go @Jcatbird ! Just spray it where you wouldn't be stepping as it can get slippery.

    @basschick see, this is what's so terrific about this site, is all the truly excellent input from people like you!
    FeralHearts, basschick and Jcatbird purraised this.

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