Aggressive Resident - It Just Got Real. No Idea How To Help Him.

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FeralHearts

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I also can tell he is extremely intelligent. Sounds a lot like my Big Mac. We have Big Mac attacks anytime he escapes outside. I mean real attacks. He gets glassy eyed, hisses, growls and if I don’t handle the situation just right I get ripped. It is instant terror. Don’t know why. He was a rescue from outside so there is some association there. A friend witnessed an attack( added to it trying to “ help”) They declared him insane. Not so. ( I have seen cats made wierd by their people but never seen an insane cat) He was terrified. The instant he was back inside he reverted to a perfect gentleman. Mackie is my most intelligent cat. I call him my laughing cat because he always responds with, what appears to be, a laugh when I tell him mouse jokes. Yes, I know. I am insane, not him. Lol I have pictures of him laughing, I swear. Mackie does the attention grabbing thing too. He will get right in front of me , take his paw, turn over my glass, cup, push my plate off the table etc. and watch for my reaction. He is leukemia positive and has stomach issues. Food can be a problem. Throwing up is a problem and pooping on the edge of the litter box is an art form. He has even pooped in my cereal bowl to show me he had a problem. Totally got my attention! Cats are amazing and smart. They are like our children and behave that way. They talk the only way they can, through actions.
Yes, Charlie is very, very smart. He's exceptionally aware of things and that super keen sense of smell is, I'm sure, both a blessing and a curse for him. He's also very sensitive.

LOL I do call Charlie insane, but in reality, I know it's me not understanding what he wants / needs. You're right - he's talking - I'm not getting it quite right yet. I need to take a close look at the subtle things he is expressing. They are there - I have to learn to see and understand them.

Big Mac sounds like Charlie - a kitty with his own way - and own terms. They say to us "There are rules. Obey" LOL @ mouse jokes. I bet he is laughing!

XO to Mac for his leukemia positive.

I promise not to eat anything in my cereal bowl that looks like pudding... ewwww. lol

I'm glad you liked the pictures!


My daughter could not speak. Because she also had limited movement I learned to understand her needs through her actions and body language. That spoke volumes. Her health had to be read as well. Charlie is talking to you. Read his actions, health indicators and body language. We already know your instincts are great. Read him as you have done the others. Trust yourself. It will all come together. And don’t eat anything in your cereal bowl that looks like pudding. Sorry. You can thank 1Bruce1 for putting that in my brain. It totally cracked me up.
It's amazing that you learned to do that with your daughter. You're right - I need to learn this with Charlie.

LOL yup 1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 that is a visual I'm not going to forget LMAO. Hilarious!

Love, love, love the pictures! Such beautiful kitties. I totally get their pursonalities from the pics.

Citrus spray outside keeps cats away. Anything lemon or orange. I sometimes resort to Pledge furniture polish outside around my door. Cats hate it. Keeps the ferals from spraying there.
Thank you and kitteis say thank you.

I can try the furniture polish.

you say charlie drinks and pees a LOT? has he had kidney testing done? that's the main symptoms for humans and pets of kidney issues, whether caused by diabetes or not. it might be good to get a recheck just to rule it out.

HK had some of those symptoms you described, and it turned out he's highly allergic to fleas. he sometimes had convulsions - which our vet misdiagnosed - and will fiercely attack during those. is it possible you have a few fleas in the house?
hi @basschick! Yes, he drinks a lot and pees equally. He has not had specific Kidney testing done, but, he does get the wellness testing that has complete bloodwork. I can certainly ask the vet if there is one we can do that hones in on the kidneys and Liver. (I just put this on my list.) His most recently blood work show some differences in some areas, improvements, though, no changes have been made to his diet because - he won't let me. The only small change was he went from refusing any treats of any kind, to trying, and liking, PurBites Salmon freeze dried.

Where there are cats, there is always flea possibilities. I haven't seen any and Mia, Brave Heart, White Label, and Charlie were all treated in July. A three month dose for the girls, a one month for Charlie, which I will be giving another dose the first week in October. There is very little carpet in the house - a few throw rugs of various sizes - but, fleas are little crafty things. I did that water and soap bowl thing and caught no fleas - but again - crafty little buggers. I've checked the cats too and they seem clean.
Is there another way I can check?

Is there something safe I can put on the through rugs to ensure we are flea-less?

Oh, and Charlie is SUCH a handsome fellow, and Mia is such a sweetie!!

I've been in your exact situation of opening can after can and being near tears because it's scary, confusing and so frustrating, getting side-eye from the rest of the household about all that food, and meanwhile The Cat is still sitting there saying MOM, I'm hungry. Geez.

But we finally found a happy medium, well, happy for him, medium for me in that he gets a food he likes that's one that I don't, and a couple of others that we both like
and I am sure that you will be able to do so as well.
Charlie and Mia say thank you. :-)

Yup - that sucks, not only can't you get them to try anything but then people are looking at you like you're nuts and kitty is all like "You're starving meeeeeee. How could you Mom! " and no one gets it. So you sit there all defeated.

LOL @ happy for him medium for you. That's a big win really.


A stubborn cat can nearly out-stubborn any human on the planet.

:lol:

@basschick see, this is what's so terrific about this site, is all the truly excellent input from people like you!
Don't forget to include you in that! XO Without you all - I don't know where I'd be right now. Seriously.

Oh yeah you're very right! Every cat is a case on its own, but as a general rule I'd say try 15 minutes every day and go from there. Some cats will fully engage and 15 minutes won't be enough, some don't feel like it every day but most days - some cats just track with their heads and watch the prey forever until finally pouncing after 10 minutes. Some elderly cats don't pounce at all and just track the prey or are perfectly content watching the youngsters play. Every cat is different, but we can all agree we're dealing with predators who have an innate drive to kill stuff - if they're allowed all day long. It's not just a physical need, it's mental too.

Unfortunately - none of them are getting 15 minutes daily right now and I see that as a problem. W.L and Charlie seem to be the two that need it the most. I need to reschedule myself somehow to make that happen

Thanks for your replies and I don't blame you at all for taking in the other cats. I can feel you want the best for all of them and I admire that. I will definitely try to keep up and help with any problems you run into along the way.
Thank you :-)

I do want the best for them. I've had to take them in much sooner than expected. I thought that about 8 they would be ready - as - well age would perhaps help them to realize indoors is goooddd! I was in the middle of prepping for a house re-wire when everything fell apart for them. Poor things. I stopped it all and decided they needed to be first priority.

Thank you. Now doubt I'll run into a lot!

You mentioned him being picky or disinterested with toys and that is definitely a struggle. My Elf gets very easily bored with toys. I got a "Tabby Tiger" rod, it comes with a feather toy but you can take the feather toy off and switch it up. For Elfie I've noticed she will only go for very small ground prey. A rat-sized thing she will go after but if it's any bigger she won't. The smaller the better. My other cat liked his prey a little bigger and he just, in general, isn't as picky with the toys. Elfie needs everything to be as realistic as possible and if I pull out the same toy more than twice a week she will get bored with it very quick.

Anyway. I buy one new toy attachment for the Tabby Tiger rod maybe once a month or once every two months so it doesn't get too expensive. I'm not sure where you can buy all of these things in the US but I buy from PurrfectDesign in Belgium
He is everything picky. Toys, food, treats - you name it - he'll find a reason :lol:

I like the rods - so does he. I found him a new one with a wire and one cluster of feathers - that seems to be a win! The ends looks like a lot like something I can change out - similar to what you suggested. :-)

I'm in Canada but I live right beside the boarder for my USA neighbours! Like right there *points* :-) Literally a few minutes drive to the boarder. I could walk there and have done!


I've been stewing on this all day on and off, and I think your suggestion of a shake can is a really good one and you make a good point about not associating it with hands, etc.
I keep thinking this through and if F FeralHearts , if you do use a sound interrupter, with Charlie's intensity, be absolutely sure your timing is perfect. If he's 100% fixated on her, this might backfire, and the sound might send him into an attack mode vs. interrupting.
The LAST thing you want is him associating a cat he already doesn't like with some loud noise.
Most cats (and most dogs) respond to this interrupter by being interrupted (and re-directed) but a few of the more intense dogs I know don't. If they're fixated on another dog, and the owner tries to interrupt with noise or pulling on their collar, it backfires and they lunge.
Just another thought to consider.
True as he does get fixated - he does the same with Mia. It's like nothing exists outside of them. It's like he's not even there.

He does hate loud noises to start with. I can try a light shake. Like one or two and see if that breaks his concentration. He has redirected his anger onto me the once or twice I've successful broke his focus on Mia. I get a really hard bite and a hiss.

I have to say hearing him his is such a weird thing. All the years, until Mia - never did he his. Well - once - after he got outside and they beat him up. I got him back in - well - he ran back in like he was shot fro ma cannon - he hissed at me when I tried to approach to make sure he was okay. That was the only time.


We all want Charlie to succeed!
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! :-) It takes TCS community to raise a child - I mean kitty cat(s).

I remember I was overnight cat-sitting for someone some time ago, and was playing with one of the two cats (the second, shy one, ended up sleeping on me. I thought that was so sweet :)).

Anyway, Mr Dominant Alpha-type got irritated with me (I was admittedly being a bit of a smarty), and I got a no-claws SMACK on my hand.

It's really impressive how much oomph they can get into their swing and hit LOL we oughta sign 'em up for baseball tryouts :lol:
AWEEEEE.

LOL too true! it so is impressive how much strength these little creatures have when they feel they need to.

:flail:@baseball tryouts. Can you imagine!
 
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FeralHearts

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For whatever reason - my whole post didn't go... (probably length EPPS)

I have had you all on my mind. I hope you, your friend and all the kitties are doing well.
Thank you! I've thought about you all daily too but I've not had time to finish any post I tried to make.

Here's an update:

Charlie hasn't tried to kill anyone lately. My brother even came to stay for a few days and not one attack. He still goes for me when he's frustrated etc but normal attack not super psycho kitty attack. So sadly once again - that goes for that it's somehow my friend. :-(

Charlie unintentionally saw Braveheart and White label. There was no aggression though. The blanket swap - he could careless.

White Label and Braveheart however - different story. Braveheart is scared of his blanket. White Label however kicks it around with her feet, licks it, suckles it, plays with it, bites it and snuggles with it. Not sure if that's a good or a bad sign.

I'm now feeding them behind each side of the gate with a towel. Do that for another week? Longer? When I was doing it with the mock wall between - BH, W.L and Charlie were all right against it - no negative reactions. Tonight will be the first time with the gate and towel.

Mia is SLOWLLYY coming out of her safe room. Her motivation - Food. I'm moving her food an inch at a time outside the saferoom. It's going okay - but slow.
 
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GO Mia Kitty!!

"Don't forget to include you in that!" I'm glad I can help in any way :)

Ummm, maybe another week?
This made me think of the phrase "the best laid plans of mice and men" LOL, but being that there have been no negative reactions, I think that another week gives you a little more assurance without spending time at it that you might not have to. And then at that point a week from now I think you'll be able to tell if you need more time...
 

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For whatever reason - my whole post didn't go... (probably length EPPS)



Thank you! I've thought about you all daily too but I've not had time to finish any post I tried to make.

Here's an update:

Charlie hasn't tried to kill anyone lately. My brother even came to stay for a few days and not one attack. He still goes for me when he's frustrated etc but normal attack not super psycho kitty attack. So sadly once again - that goes for that it's somehow my friend. :-(

Charlie unintentionally saw Braveheart and White label. There was no aggression though. The blanket swap - he could careless.

White Label and Braveheart however - different story. Braveheart is scared of his blanket. White Label however kicks it around with her feet, licks it, suckles it, plays with it, bites it and snuggles with it. Not sure if that's a good or a bad sign.

I'm now feeding them behind each side of the gate with a towel. Do that for another week? Longer? When I was doing it with the mock wall between - BH, W.L and Charlie were all right again it - no negative reactions. Tonight will be the first time with the gate and towel.

Mia is SLOWLLYY coming out of her safe room. Her motivation - Food. I'm moving her food an inch at a time outside the saferoom. It's going okay - but slow.
If it were me, I'd stick with slow. If they're happy eating nearby one another I'd do it for another week, month, etc., until they are actively investigating the "other guy" on the other side.
Slow and steady wins the race, I'm sure you've heard. :thumbsup:
 

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GO Mia Kitty!!

Ummm, maybe another week?
This made me think of the phrase "the best laid plans of mice and men" LOL, but being that there have been no negative reactions, I think that another week gives you a little more assurance without spending time at it that you might not have to. And then at that point a week from now I think you'll be able to tell if you need more time...
Yep, and remember that our tension is impossible to hide when it comes to transferring to them. If you' hold your breath, stare, freeze, etc., one cat might think "human hates this cat, look how they're freezing up in preparation to stand off with them" and go after them. That's the hardest thing to get past.
If you can find a way to become comfortable with them meeting behind a gate that allows sight, smell, sound, etc. this will help, and if there's a minor issue (puffing up, freezing) calming them down a little by keeping your body language "loose" (no tensing up, no freezing or staring) will help them.
I've had minor scuffles here with dog vs. dog, and cat vs. cat, and 99.99% of them have been minor enough that I just turned away and said "oh, you idiots" in a normal pleasant tone, and that seemed to keep the scuffle from getting worse.
I don't know. I don't react much anymore unless it's serious enough to set off some alarm bells in my coconut of a skull, and I don't add to the fire of two cats or two dogs standing off in a potential battle because it usually just adds to the adrenaline.
It's worked here, it might not work everywhere, but if the cats are bonded to you and they trust you, this might be an option to consider step by step. :dunno:
 
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FeralHearts

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Any ideas on what the reaction W.L had to the blanket was all about?

GO Mia Kitty!!

"Don't forget to include you in that!" I'm glad I can help in any way :)

Ummm, maybe another week?
This made me think of the phrase "the best laid plans of mice and men" LOL, but being that there have been no negative reactions, I think that another week gives you a little more assurance without spending time at it that you might not have to. And then at that point a week from now I think you'll be able to tell if you need more time...
You are a great help XO!

LOL none of my plans have worked so far - this one has too LOL. Not sure how to do the room swap with two of them though. A problem for another day!

Mia however just now went all the way up the stairs and to the middle of the kitchen! First time ever!! Then Charlie chased her back down but she did smack him. So that's okay.

He's a bit agitated. So we'll go play in a sec.

*Nods* week or more - slowww, slowwww.



If it were me, I'd stick with slow. If they're happy eating nearby one another I'd do it for another week, month, etc., until they are actively investigating the "other guy" on the other side.
Slow and steady wins the race, I'm sure you've heard. :thumbsup:
Thank you :-)

I can do that. Slow and steady.

Poor Charlie - so much is being asked of him and he's being such a trooper.



Yep, and remember that our tension is impossible to hide when it comes to transferring to them. If you' hold your breath, stare, freeze, etc., one cat might think "human hates this cat, look how they're freezing up in preparation to stand off with them" and go after them. That's the hardest thing to get past.
If you can find a way to become comfortable with them meeting behind a gate that allows sight, smell, sound, etc. this will help, and if there's a minor issue (puffing up, freezing) calming them down a little by keeping your body language "loose" (no tensing up, no freezing or staring) will help them.
I've had minor scuffles here with dog vs. dog, and cat vs. cat, and 99.99% of them have been minor enough that I just turned away and said "oh, you idiots" in a normal pleasant tone, and that seemed to keep the scuffle from getting worse.
I don't know. I don't react much anymore unless it's serious enough to set off some alarm bells in my coconut of a skull, and I don't add to the fire of two cats or two dogs standing off in a potential battle because it usually just adds to the adrenaline.
It's worked here, it might not work everywhere, but if the cats are bonded to you and they trust you, this might be an option to consider step by step. :dunno:
That will be the hard part. I have to remember to stay relax as I guarantee my nerves will be at play. It might take weeks for me seeing them eating between the gate before I AM comfortable - even if they might be fine. :doh2::paperbag:

I can do my tone okay - but I will try my hardest to keep my body relaxed. Good idea.
 
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I'm glad you liked the pictures! Yes I did!

It's amazing that you learned to do that with your daughter. You're right - I need to learn this with Charlie.
Thanks for that about my daughter. She was amazing! Pure :sunshine::redheartpump: This coming Friday would have been her 37th birthday! She taught me many great things that I am eternally grateful for.

The cat speak will come. You already know more than you think you do. It is obvious to me that you speak cat. Some of the language is subtle and some is not. A hiss says , back off! Watch for ears back, twitching tail and that dirty look they can give. All indicate that something is up. Turning their back to you is like giving you the cold shoulder. Lol Walking away is that , they are done with you. Staring means an act of pouncing may follow. Possibly a swat too! Following a cat they have issues with means aggression may follow. My Mackie got a little jealous of the attention I was giving a smaller cat named Whistle. Mackie demonstrated it to me like this! I show you this photo so you will get the idea clearly. Watch what cats do and you will understand what they are thinking. The expression on the face of the small cat tells us a lot too! Anytime someone sits on your head, you kind of know what they mean! A bum by the face is something older brothers like to do to little brothers or sisters! Not really aggressive but it still tells you who wants to be in charge. :lol:
D4BD04B4-5240-4283-8F7D-0F8AC67A7C08.jpeg


Where there are cats, there is always flea possibilities. I haven't seen any and Mia, Brave Heart, White Label, and Charlie were all treated in July. A three month dose for the girls, a one month for Charlie, which I will be giving another dose the first week in October. There is very little carpet in the house - a few throw rugs of various sizes - but, fleas are little crafty things. I did that water and soap bowl thing and caught no fleas - but again - crafty little buggers. I've checked the cats too and they seem clean.

Use a damp white cloth to rub kitty and a flea comb. Any flea poop will show up on the damp white as reddish or black dots. The flea comb can pull out fleas and the black dots as well as flea eggs. If you mop and there is moisture as well as vibrations then eggs and larvae are stimulated to hatch or progress to adult stage. After a mopping you can let the floor dry and then vacuum. Wash all fabric often. I have concrete floors that I can drench with a layer of water with Dawn dish liquid. The soap breaks down the outer shell of the flea and they sink to drown quickly. Eggs can last in dormancy for years from what I have read. Yuck! Charlie should be treated regularly for them as they can transmit parasites. There are all sorts of productd your vet can suggest. If you have a bad case then the vet might suggest a Capstar pill. Only works for 24 hours but kills adults and it can be repeated. I use this as soon as I bring a rescue inside. If they won’t take a pill I try to put it on top of a yummy food or I dilute it and use a syringe to skirt it in their mouth. Bitter though. I also use flea traps. A small night light bulb in a plastic housing containing a sticky pad. They work great if you use them at night what the lights are out. Make sure the cats don’t play with them. Very sticky. When I have kittens here I put the trap inside a locked carrier.
A white towel fresh out of the dryer may help attract fleas off of Charlie too.
If you can’t wash rugs the I have read you can use borax or food safe diotamaceous earth. I use salt or baking powder to dry up the little critters. It works. I also ring to a boil thinly sliced lemons in a pint of water then let it sit over night. I use this in a spray bottle to lightly spritz furniture. Keeps everything off!

I have to say hearing him his is such a weird thing. All the years, until Mia - never did he his. Well - once - after he got outside and they beat him up. I got him back in - well - he ran back in like he was shot fro ma cannon - he hissed at me when I tried to approach to make sure he was okay. That was the only time.

What you said here struck a note with me. “ They best him up” ( he probably hissed at you because he thought you let it happen or failed to run off the offenders) That is one issue he may have with them. They don’t forget. They can forgive but it will take some time and he is probably feeling a need to establish a safe and dominant role.

Scaring cats is never good. Establishing yourself as the top cat is good. My word is always, NO! I only use it when I mean it. Just like I would with a child. You choose only the important battles. Hot stove, NO, running in the street NO, hissing NO attacking NO! Firmly said and loud but not yelling. I would use it first with something besides Mia so he won’t resent her for being chastised. Let him learn the rules.
I have used a large piece of cardboard or foam board as a wall between arguing cats. It kept me safe and was a non threatening thing to the cats. If they attack that, it’s just like butting your head against a soft wall. No harm and no one to strike at. No fun to be had there but okay to take out any frustration.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! :-) It takes TCS community to raise a child - I mean kitty cat(s). :)
They are actually a lot like raising a child. Lol Many of the same precautions and rules apply. I am glad that you came to TCS. There are a lot of great cat parents here who care enough to help.

AWEEEEE.

LOL too true! it so is impressive how much strength these little creatures have when they feel they need to.

:flail:@baseball tryouts. Can you imagine![/QUOTE]
I often get hit by a strong batter. I always cry foul! :lol: BJ got me today as a matter of fact! I was slow to give him enough attention today and I kind of knew by his expression I might be punished. Cats! :gingercat:

Hang in there! You are a fantastic kitty parent! :hangin:
 

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I guess I was crossing posts with otherscor just took so long writing I messed a LOT! That blanket thing sounds like it’s going well. Playing with the blanket and even suckling it! I would probably have laughed watching that. Sounds cute and like it’s a very good sign of accepting. White Labelnis not afraid of the scent so hopefully that will translate. Braveheart being afraid of it might indicate a fear of the scent of the cat but that might not last. Give them time. Maybe Braveheart just doesn’t like the blanket or perhaps a flea jumped off of it and bit him. You just can’t know but that actual cat meetings are what count. If no one is arguing, you’re doing great! Mia wandering around is huge. It sounds like your house is settling into a great life as a family. I am so glad you have been able to find your way through the puzzling parts. I know it was stressful but you have made amazing progress with all of the kitties! Yay for you and for them! Awesome job! All admiration from me!
 

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I don't dare mix our colonies except for one cat the goes back and forth with ease, who is so easily accepted by all because he ignores aggression with confidence (but not over confidence) and puts all the other cats at ease no matter what. Worse case is they follow him around a little, but he doesn't shrink away, pause, freeze, hiss, growl, run, hide, because in his mind the world is his oyster. If a cat corners him and hisses/freaks, he just hangs around like "yep, this is the corner I was dying to be in, isn't this great? *head butt* Love you, bro" and walks off, leaving the offending cat all ":headscratch:...can someone tell me what just happened here?"
(I will never expect another cat like him ever again. He's one special guy.)

Through the floor to ceiling gate, our girls (2 vs. 2) hiss, wail, scream, slap and just make noise. The gate is a door and is solid as a rock and the girls act like complete dorks....but the longer this goes on, the more I see bright eyes, ears up, and playful behavior that involves these things. It's gone from "STRANGER CAT I HATE YOU" to "you're not in my colony but I see you a lot. I'll still slap you but I kind of like you, LOL".
I won't mix them, but if the gate got unlatched, I wouldn't panic.
The gate was installed 10 months ago. I still got splinters to prove it. :confused:
 
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Elfilou Elfilou I finally got the cat Mojo book today and started to read it at lunchtime. I think this will be helpful. I've already learned a few things!

Thanks for that about my daughter. She was amazing! Pure :sunshine: This coming Friday would have been her 37th birthday! She taught me many great things that I am eternally grateful for.
Happy belated birthday to her. You may not be able to see her - but I am betting she's still comes to check in on you! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO :heartshape:

The cat speak will come. You already know more than you think you do. It is obvious to me that you speak cat. Some of the language is subtle and some is not. A hiss says , back off! Watch for ears back, twitching tail and that dirty look they can give. All indicate that something is up. Turning their back to you is like giving you the cold shoulder. Lol Walking away is that , they are done with you. Staring means an act of pouncing may follow. Possibly a swat too! Following a cat they have issues with means aggression may follow. My Mackie got a little jealous of the attention I was giving a smaller cat named Whistle. Mackie demonstrated it to me like this! I show you this photo so you will get the idea clearly. Watch what cats do and you will understand what they are thinking. The expression on the face of the small cat tells us a lot too! Anytime someone sits on your head, you kind of know what they mean! A bum by the face is something older brothers like to do to little brothers or sisters! Not really aggressive but it still tells you who wants to be in charge. :lol:
I'm slowly learning catspeak. At least I can usually see when they aren't feeling up-to-snuff. I think I might end up a poop expert the way things are going!

That picture is definitely "stink eye" lol Cute too though! I know the dirty looks well now and the walking away all annoyed! Then I sit there and go "Really! Really! Whyyyyyy"


Use a damp white cloth to rub kitty and a flea comb. Any flea poop will show up on the damp white as reddish or black dots. The flea comb can pull out fleas and the black dots as well as flea eggs. If you mop and there is moisture as well as vibrations then eggs and larvae are stimulated to hatch or progress to adult stage. After a mopping you can let the floor dry and then vacuum. Wash all fabric often. I have concrete floors that I can drench with a layer of water with Dawn dish liquid. The soap breaks down the outer shell of the flea and they sink to drown quickly. Eggs can last in dormancy for years from what I have read. Yuck! Charlie should be treated regularly for them as they can transmit parasites. There are all sorts of productd your vet can suggest. If you have a bad case then the vet might suggest a Capstar pill. Only works for 24 hours but kills adults and it can be repeated. I use this as soon as I bring a rescue inside. If they won’t take a pill I try to put it on top of a yummy food or I dilute it and use a syringe to skirt it in their mouth. Bitter though. I also use flea traps. A small night light bulb in a plastic housing containing a sticky pad. They work great if you use them at night what the lights are out. Make sure the cats don’t play with them. Very sticky. When I have kittens here I put the trap inside a locked carrier.
A white towel fresh out of the dryer may help attract fleas off of Charlie too.
If you can’t wash rugs the I have read you can use borax or food safe diotamaceous earth. I use salt or baking powder to dry up the little critters. It works. I also ring to a boil thinly sliced lemons in a pint of water then let it sit over night. I use this in a spray bottle to lightly spritz furniture. Keeps everything off!
Going to try that a poke around for fleas and make sure they are clean. I have loads of white little towels!!. Thank you!

One thing about the Borax - where ever you read that - email them. Even small ingested amounts of that is toxic to cats and small children. I am sure cleaning with it is probable okay as long as it's rinsed well. Same with Teatree oil. I cringe every time I hear someone used it directly on a cat to treat them and they never listen. I get this look and a remark about "been using it for years with no problems" and I shake my head. OH! OH! I do know things! YAY!


What you said here struck a note with me. “ They best him up” ( he probably hissed at you because he thought you let it happen or failed to run off the offenders) That is one issue he may have with them. They don’t forget. They can forgive but it will take some time and he is probably feeling a need to establish a safe and dominant role.

Scaring cats is never good. Establishing yourself as the top cat is good. My word is always, NO! I only use it when I mean it. Just like I would with a child. You choose only the important battles. Hot stove, NO, running in the street NO, hissing NO attacking NO! Firmly said and loud but not yelling. I would use it first with something besides Mia so he won’t resent her for being chastised. Let him learn the rules
He would be right - I did fail to run them off and kept feeding them lol - but hey - he's the one who did the walk about. So unfair to be mad at me for his poor choices. ;-)

I agree - he probably will need a lot of time. So far Braveheart and Mia appear the frightened ones. Mia will back off - but I know Braveheart won't if he corners her - she IS wild at heart all the way.

White Label is more like him. Pushy and dominate. She also appears less worried about Charlie.

I actually let him bully Mia a bit - she does stand up for herself if he goes too far. I try not to interfere as I understand they have to establish things. If it every gets nasty - I will use the NO! So far - like you - I use NO! only when needed - like when he bites me too hard. It's good you said that - cause now I know I'm doing that right!:cheerleader: You always worry you're making matters worse.

I have used a large piece of cardboard or foam board as a wall between arguing cats. It kept me safe and was a non threatening thing to the cats. If they attack that, it’s just like butting your head against a soft wall. No harm and no one to strike at. No fun to be had there but okay to take out any frustration.

They are actually a lot like raising a child. Lol Many of the same precautions and rules apply. I am glad that you came to TCS. There are a lot of great cat parents here who care enough to help.
I'm going to make sure I have a piece ready when Charlie and the other two finally meet as that is going to be tough. Right now he's in with Mia - curled up on the floor looking sad as she's hiding up the tree from him. Makes me sad - but I know they have to do things in their own time - not mine. 'Cept May - they have to abide in May. We all have no choice on that. He will also simply turn around and leave if I go in the room to sit with them both. :bawling:

I'm so glad I came too. I'd be so lost without you all. I'd probably have made many more mistakes without you all! XOXOXOX

I often get hit by a strong batter. I always cry foul! :lol: BJ got me today as a matter of fact! I was slow to give him enough attention today and I kind of knew by his expression I might be punished. Cats! :gingercat:

Hang in there! You are a fantastic kitty parent!
:lol2: Yup - ouch!

Thank you. XXOOXOXXOX I'm trying my bestest to be a good caretaker to them all. I see these slow changes towards good and think ... maybe .. maybe.. just maybe we can all work it out!

I guess I was crossing posts with otherscor just took so long writing I messed a LOT! That blanket thing sounds like it’s going well. Playing with the blanket and even suckling it! I would probably have laughed watching that. Sounds cute and like it’s a very good sign of accepting. White Labelnis not afraid of the scent so hopefully that will translate. Braveheart being afraid of it might indicate a fear of the scent of the cat but that might not last. Give them time. Maybe Braveheart just doesn’t like the blanket or perhaps a flea jumped off of it and bit him. You just can’t know but that actual cat meetings are what count. If no one is arguing, you’re doing great! Mia wandering around is huge. It sounds like your house is settling into a great life as a family. I am so glad you have been able to find your way through the puzzling parts. I know it was stressful but you have made amazing progress with all of the kitties! Yay for you and for them! Awesome job! All admiration from me!
It's slow progress forward - but it's forward. Some set backs. It's like three steps forward four back and then two steps forward and one back.

Mia wandering - even just the one day - thrilled me! She's not done it since but I'll wait. Soon she will know this is home and it's okay.

Thank you! We is working hard. :bunnydance::dance:

Look! W.L and Braveheart are finally sharing space on the couch! Up until yesterday they would not occupy the couch together!




Tonight - the fish came. Charlie is so so about it and entertained for a very short bit. I'll try to girls tomorrow. It was an interesting idea. I think I need better quality wind up fishes. These are so-so to bad. They barely work. :-( when they do move though - he is interested. So if I can find better quality ones - I will try again.




I don't dare mix our colonies except for one cat the goes back and forth with ease, who is so easily accepted by all because he ignores aggression with confidence (but not over confidence) and puts all the other cats at ease no matter what. Worse case is they follow him around a little, but he doesn't shrink away, pause, freeze, hiss, growl, run, hide, because in his mind the world is his oyster. If a cat corners him and hisses/freaks, he just hangs around like "yep, this is the corner I was dying to be in, isn't this great? *head butt* Love you, bro" and walks off, leaving the offending cat all ":headscratch:...can someone tell me what just happened here?"
(I will never expect another cat like him ever again. He's one special guy.)

That is hilariously AWESOME!


Through the floor to ceiling gate, our girls (2 vs. 2) hiss, wail, scream, slap and just make noise. The gate is a door and is solid as a rock and the girls act like complete dorks....but the longer this goes on, the more I see bright eyes, ears up, and playful behavior that involves these things. It's gone from "STRANGER CAT I HATE YOU" to "you're not in my colony but I see you a lot. I'll still slap you but I kind of like you, LOL".
I won't mix them, but if the gate got unlatched, I wouldn't panic.
The gate was installed 10 months ago. I still got splinters to prove it. :confused:
OUCH! Splinters.

Maybe one day they will all be comfy around each other - there is hope!!! Always hope! ?[/QUOTE]
 
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Elfilou Elfilou I finally got the cat Mojo book today and started to read it at lunchtime. I think this will be helpful. I've already learned a few things!



Happy belated birthday to her. You may not be able to see her - but I am betting she's still comes to check in on you! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO :heartshape:



I'm slowly learning catspeak. At least I can usually see when they aren't feeling up-to-snuff. I think I might end up a poop expert the way things are going!

That picture is definitely "stink eye" lol Cute too though! I know the dirty looks well now and the walking away all annoyed! Then I sit there and go "Really! Really! Whyyyyyy"




Going to try that a poke around for fleas and make sure they are clean. I have loads of white little towels!!. Thank you!

One thing about the Borax - where ever you read that - email them. Even small ingested amounts of that is toxic to cats and small children. I am sure cleaning with it is probable okay as long as it's rinsed well. Same with Teatree oil. I cringe every time I hear someone used it directly on a cat to treat them and they never listen. I get this look and a remark about "been using it for years with no problems" and I shake my head. OH! OH! I do know things! YAY!




He would be right - I did fail to run them off and kept feeding them lol - but hey - he's the one who did the walk about. So unfair to be mad at me for his poor choices. ;-)

I agree - he probably will need a lot of time. So far Braveheart and Mia appear the frightened ones. Mia will back off - but I know Braveheart won't if he corners her - she IS wild at heart all the way.

White Label is more like him. Pushy and dominate. She also appears less worried about Charlie.

I actually let him bully Mia a bit - she does stand up for herself if he goes too far. I try not to interfere as I understand they have to establish things. If it every gets nasty - I will use the NO! So far - like you - I use NO! only when needed - like when he bites me too hard. It's good you said that - cause now I know I'm doing that right!:cheerleader: You always worry you're making matters worse.



I'm going to make sure I have a piece ready when Charlie and the other two finally meet as that is going to be tough. Right now he's in with Mia - curled up on the floor looking sad as she's hiding up the tree from him. Makes me sad - but I know they have to do things in their own time - not mine. 'Cept May - they have to abide in May. We all have no choice on that. He will also simply turn around and leave if I go in the room to sit with them both. :bawling:

I'm so glad I came too. I'd be so lost without you all. I'd probably have made many more mistakes without you all! XOXOXOX



:lol2: Yup - ouch!

Thank you. XXOOXOXXOX I'm trying my bestest to be a good caretaker to them all. I see these slow changes towards good and think ... maybe .. maybe.. just maybe we can all work it out!



It's slow progress forward - but it's forward. Some set backs. It's like three steps forward four back and then two steps forward and one back.

Mia wondering - even just the one day - thrilled me! She's not done it since but I'll wait. Soon she will know this is home and it's okay.

Thank you! We is working hard. :bunnydance::dance:

Look! W.L and Braveheart are finally sharing space on the couch! Up until yesterday they would not occupy the couch together!




Tonight - the fish came. Charlie is so so about it and entertained for a very short bit. I'll try to girls tomorrow. It was an interesting idea. I think I need better quality wind up fishes. These are so-so to bad. They barely work. :-( when they do move though - he is interested. So if I can find better quality ones - I will try again.







That is hilariously AWESOME!




OUCH! Splinters.

Maybe one day they will all be comfy around each other - there is hope!!! Always hope! ?
[/QUOTE]

The fish game thing is really, REALLY cool
Where'd you get the phony (are they phony? They look real!) fish?
I have a sink obsessed one that might think this is funny. He's a rather odd duck...had him since 6 weeks or so and at 5 years he's all "NO TOUCH." He's like Stewart from MadTV.
And yes, dear God the splinters. Once they were installed I pretty much took a bath consisting of 99% drawing salve, but my "ideas" usually get the best of me. :(
I like to think I'm handy, but really I'm just entertainment.
 
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The fishes - I bought three kinds - only two came today but they are not good quality at all. Now that I know it might interest him I will look for better ones.

I think if I tossed an old water fountain pump in the water to make them move - that would do it too LOL.

1.
2.
3.
So far 3 and 1 came today. Waiting on 2.

[email protected] think you're handy... sounds like me. I'm about to learn to use a jigsaw - with supervision - for a kitty project. So far the reaction has been "she's going to try what! Okay - please tell me someone will be standing with her!" I'd be insulted if I didn't know they were right.
 

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The fishes - I bought three kinds - only two came today but they are not good quality at all. Now that I know it might interest him I will look for better ones.

I think if I tossed an old water fountain pump in the water to make them move - that would do it too LOL.

1.
2.
3.
So far 3 and 1 came today. Waiting on 2.

[email protected] think you're handy... sounds like me. I'm about to learn to use a jigsaw - with supervision - for a kitty project. So far the reaction has been "she's going to try what! Okay - please tell me someone will be standing with her!" I'd be insulted if I didn't know they were right.
I don't think quality matters with my cats. They're simple. They, uh....*don't* get it from me. :spew: (Yeah I'm not fooled my own crap lies either :flail:)

I just get all happy inside when I read about people who do all this stuff to keep their cats happy. People do this with dogs constantly, but rarely do I find people who do this for their cats.
It's a cheap fix, but my cats love it when I take a hunk of foil off of food from the grill, let it cool, then wad it loosely into a large ball and toss/roll it. It's shiny, it makes a weird noise, they love it. I play with them and entertain myself, because I'm old and simple, and take it away when we stop interacting. (Taking it away keeps it interesting, and it keeps them from ingesting pieces of foil that they don't need to be eating!
I'm almost banned from my own shop because I get Bright Ideas. And my Bright Ideas usually turn into things bordering on minor problems to small potential fires. I ain't as sharp as I used to be. :rolleyes2:
 
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I don't think quality matters with my cats. They're simple. They, uh....*don't* get it from me. :spew: (Yeah I'm not fooled my own crap lies either :flail:)

I just get all happy inside when I read about people who do all this stuff to keep their cats happy. People do this with dogs constantly, but rarely do I find people who do this for their cats.
It's a cheap fix, but my cats love it when I take a hunk of foil off of food from the grill, let it cool, then wad it loosely into a large ball and toss/roll it. It's shiny, it makes a weird noise, they love it. I play with them and entertain myself, because I'm old and simple, and take it away when we stop interacting. (Taking it away keeps it interesting, and it keeps them from ingesting pieces of foil that they don't need to be eating!
I'm almost banned from my own shop because I get Bright Ideas. And my Bright Ideas usually turn into things bordering on minor problems to small potential fires. I ain't as sharp as I used to be. :rolleyes2:
LOL!

I hope you try it and they like it!

Must keep the kitty happy. Bad things happen if kitty unhappy.

I've never understood people where their cats are just this creature they feed and who occupies space in their house. Sure - I'm glad they gave the kitty a home but I wish they realized that they aren't some fixture like a table. People I think are taught that cats are low maintenance and- can "entertain and take care of themselves" and to some degree that can be true - but not all the time. Makes me sad when I see that.

My vet laughs - when it was just Charlie and I - I say to her.... I'm a low maintenance person with a high maintenance cat - how did this happen? :runaround:

LOL well at least you use to be sharp? ;-):dizzycat::kneading:
 

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LOL!

I hope you try it and they like it!

Must keep the kitty happy. Bad things happen if kitty unhappy.

I've never understood people where their cats are just this creature they feed and who occupies space in their house. Sure - I'm glad they gave the kitty a home but I wish they realized that they aren't some fixture like a table. People I think are taught that cats are low maintenance and- can "entertain and take care of themselves" and to some degree that can be true - but not all the time. Makes me sad when I see that.

My vet laughs - when it was just Charlie and I - I say to her.... I'm a low maintenance person with a high maintenance cat - how did this happen? :runaround:

LOL well at least you use to be sharp? ;-):dizzycat::kneading:
When people bring in a dog or a pup and feed them and nothing else....let the run wild...and then 6 months later, bitch about their out of control dog my response is always "what did you put into them?"
No time, no training, no bonding, no love....just food, water, run of the house, then a lot of complaining. My nice response is "find a trainer, work with them, bond with them", and when ask-holes (people who ask questions but won't accept any answer that involves work) reply with excuses...it's "get over it." Kind of cold, but it comes with age I guess.
Same with cats and kittens. Give a kitten a bowl of food, water, and let them run all over, enjoy then while they're cute....then complain and bitch when the kitten grows into a cat that has no reason to like you, love you, or respect you and wants nothing to do with the owner. Its sad, really.
Picture yourself with your first horse. Horse doesn't know you. You don't know the horse. First time you attempt to do anything, they rear up.
You can either develop a nice bond with this horse with time and patience, or just give up and give the horse away because the horse is "crazy".
Or, you can be like most of us here and say "I don't speak good horse (cat), but I have a nice horse (cat) and want to learn. Maybe what I learn for this animal will help others in the future, and I can give advice to those in the future just starting out to chill the **** out (edit mine! I'm PG13 LOL) and just keep a sense of calm, and it'll work out."
(Cats aren't dogs. Dogs aren't horses. Horses aren't cats. But horses and cats both have that flight instinct, and it makes them interesting and challenging to work with. So don't kill me for using them as an example!)
 

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Elfilou Elfilou I finally got the cat Mojo book today and started to read it at lunchtime. I think this will be helpful. I've already learned a few things!
Awesome! I found the book not only helpful, but also funny and beautifully illustrated! I even shed tears at a few chapters toward the end.

And the fish look awesome. Even if it might've looked like they were minimally interested, if you pull them out of the attic every week/month or so it may re-spark their interest. Both of my cats particularily like "videos for cats to watch" on youtube. The mice are favourites. They don't bat at the screen at all (thankfully) but just tracking it with their eyes and "mind-hunting" for 10 minutes is imo very good for them!

I love the effort you're putting in :redheartpump:
 
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When people bring in a dog or a pup and feed them and nothing else....let the run wild...and then 6 months later, bitch about their out of control dog my response is always "what did you put into them?"
No time, no training, no bonding, no love....just food, water, run of the house, then a lot of complaining. My nice response is "find a trainer, work with them, bond with them", and when ask-holes (people who ask questions but won't accept any answer that involves work) reply with excuses...it's "get over it." Kind of cold, but it comes with age I guess.
Same with cats and kittens. Give a kitten a bowl of food, water, and let them run all over, enjoy then while they're cute....then complain and bitch when the kitten grows into a cat that has no reason to like you, love you, or respect you and wants nothing to do with the owner. Its sad, really.
Picture yourself with your first horse. Horse doesn't know you. You don't know the horse. First time you attempt to do anything, they rear up.
You can either develop a nice bond with this horse with time and patience, or just give up and give the horse away because the horse is "crazy".
Or, you can be like most of us here and say "I don't speak good horse (cat), but I have a nice horse (cat) and want to learn. Maybe what I learn for this animal will help others in the future, and I can give advice to those in the future just starting out to chill the **** out (edit mine! I'm PG13 LOL) and just keep a sense of calm, and it'll work out."
(Cats aren't dogs. Dogs aren't horses. Horses aren't cats. But horses and cats both have that flight instinct, and it makes them interesting and challenging to work with. So don't kill me for using them as an example!)
The horse is a great reference!

I don't think what you say is cold - it's a truth people need to hear and understand. Those that care - will get it.

Awesome! I found the book not only helpful, but also funny and beautifully illustrated! I even shed tears at a few chapters toward the end.

And the fish look awesome. Even if it might've looked like they were minimally interested, if you pull them out of the attic every week/month or so it may re-spark their interest. Both of my cats particularily like "videos for cats to watch" on youtube. The mice are favourites. They don't bat at the screen at all (thankfully) but just tracking it with their eyes and "mind-hunting" for 10 minutes is imo very good for them!

I love the effort you're putting in :redheartpump:
It is funny and the art is great too! Yes. I'm seeing thing in the book and nodding with big yups - screwed that up - yup - been down that road - yup. I'm also understanding Charlie a little better and why he might be doing some things he is. Mostly my fault. In fact probably all of it require more changes on my part than his. I can do that for him.

Thank you for the recommend! I really like the book a lot. Every cat caretaker should get one when they adopt.

The fish are hilarious. I will bring them out once a week as something different for him and I to do together.

I almost have a schedule for play for him - it's not quite as good as I'd like it but we'll get there. I'm noticed him a little more confident than he's been in recent months - so that's a win.

Thank you - I am trying very hard. I really want the kitties to be happy and health. The best life possible for them. I don't mind the effort if it makes that possible for them. The hope id that one day they see that they are home. That they feel it in every whisker and every hair. This is family and this is home.

Braveheart was drugged last night and this AM for her vet visit. Gapapentin for the win! I hated doing that to her but after what happened last time - it really was best for us both. She was calm enough that I only have one war wound instead of 50. The kind Vet agreed we could give her her Rabies shot a few weeks early to avoid stressing her further but the best news is the clean bill of health!

Mia took progressed too. I was so excited. She came out of her safe room 5 times on sat night and played with me outside it!! Then Sunday she made it all the way upstairs, through the kitchen and peeked into the living room. It lasted only 30 seconds - but I will take that as a WOO FREAKIN WOO!!!! She's not left the room at all today - but still. I'll hold onto Sat and sunday.

I have Charlies last two bloodwork results and heart file ready to go for this coming Monday - along with a list of observations, possible symptoms and some questions. On one hand - I'm very very looking forward to having him looked at with fresh eyes. I'm really hoping for nothing, or something minor. On the other hand - can't say I'm not scared they'll find something bad.

I read on another site about someone who's cat always had black looking poop too and they are on the same food Charlie is. (Wellness Wet Pate- he will only eat Turkey or Turkey and Salmon, he did each chicken years ago and LOVES it but the vet thought he might have allergy - she thought chicken - so that was axed. I have him on a small handful of Royal Canin Gastrointestinal fiber response every night before bed (Chicken it that scratches head*). He also eats a handful of I really think I need to change his food but the last several times I've tried - he's literally starved himself - no exaggeration or joke.

I really really want to have him more like the girls - they will eat a variety of flavors and brands. I can mix it up easy. Very few things they've shown a dislike for.
 
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So charlie is at the vet right now. He's spending the day so they can get Pee.

They are doing blood work (it's been 6 months since his last), urinalysis, x-ray and yes - they are checking his poop! HALLELUJAH - someone is checking his poop!!!!!

I'm very nervous and hoping that it's just really bad allergies and we can fix that.

The vet did ask if I was willing to cook for him. Absolutely yes was my answer.
If that's what he needs - that's what he gets.

I am really hoping for nothing bad. My fingers and toes are crossed.
 
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Furballsmom Furballsmom Jcatbird Jcatbird 1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 Elfilou Elfilou @basschick

So Charlie is back - I'm grateful to the vet as she stayed later to try to let his bladder fill more in the hopes she could get a sample. She did it!

It will take a few days for the results of the blood, poop and pee but the x-rays do confirm everything I've said to the vets all along about his constipation (relieved a bit as makes me feel less insane) and it confirmed inflammation in the small intestines too. It also confirmed with certainty the his heart condition is not just his heart being too big for his chest but, what was suspected, and decided on, but never confirmed until now, Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy. It's mild so that's good.

@jacatbird - I had to chuckle a bit as the vet said "We're getting all the pieces of the puzzle together."

Now we wait and hope for something minor.

Thank you guys / Gals for the encouragement and support to get him a second opinion. I think we're finally going to have it figured out and hopefully it''s something easily treatable and Charlie will be on his way happier. :-)
 
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