Willy might have cancer / high-grade lymphoma Treatment thread

[cmshap]

Update: 5 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Willy had a good appetite all day. I kept giving him more food, basically as much as he wanted (but he's not overeating in a dangerous way; his overall appetite is still lower than it used to be).

I just dosed him with prednisolone again, and he is hiding in the closet again. This one did not go as planned. I tried wrapping him in a towel first, but he kept squirming and I couldn't successfully do it. So I thought the towel was just stressing him out more, and I will have to try to acclimate him to that over time, maybe by just wrapping and then giving a treat, instead of doing anything medical; i.e., get him used to towel = something good, first.

So I opted to do it with him in my lap again, and it did not go well. I successfully administered the medicine, but I had to force his mouth open and squirt it in, and because he was squirming, I pressed the plunger really hard to make sure all the medicine went in his mouth within the one-second window that I had a clear shot. He was not happy.

So, he is back in the closet, afraid of me again. I really need to figure out how to do this in a way that keeps him calmer. I've watched countless YouTube videos showing cats entirely compliant with everything that's happening. I can't replicate a single one. The biggest problem I have is control of his head. He wriggles around, and won't open his mouth, so I have to hold him still while simultaneously using a finger to open his mouth with one hand, and get the syringe in with the other hand.

He's never clawing/kicking me... he is just always wriggling his head in awkward directions and I can't maintain control long enough to make it a gentler procedure.

It's still better than pilling, but not by much.

Edit: Also, regarding the liquid prednisolone... it is chicken flavored. I was told I did not need to refrigerate it. But that seems odd... I assume some kind of chicken product is used in the flavoring. Can it not spoil? And the syringe already smells strongly like chicken... I am rinsing it in plain water after every use, but there must be residual chicken-stuff all over it. Is it really okay to just leave this stuff sitting out for a month?

They did give me two syringes, so I can switch to a clean one halfway through, but it still feels unsanitary somehow.

 

[iPappy]

Update: 5 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Willy had a good appetite all day. I kept giving him more food, basically as much as he wanted (but he's not overeating in a dangerous way; his overall appetite is still lower than it used to be).

I just dosed him with prednisolone again, and he is hiding in the closet again. This one did not go as planned. I tried wrapping him in a towel first, but he kept squirming and I couldn't successfully do it. So I thought the towel was just stressing him out more, and I will have to try to acclimate him to that over time, maybe by just wrapping and then giving a treat, instead of doing anything medical; i.e., get him used to towel = something good, first.

So I opted to do it with him in my lap again, and it did not go well. I successfully administered the medicine, but I had to force his mouth open and squirt it in, and because he was squirming, I pressed the plunger really hard to make sure all the medicine went in his mouth within the 1-second window that I had a clear shot. He was not happy.

So, he is back in the closet, afraid of me again. I really need to figure out how to do this in a way that keeps him calmer. I've watched countless YouTube videos showing cats entirely compliant with everything that's happening. I can't replicate a single one. The biggest problem I have is control of his head. He wriggles around, and won't open his mouth, so I have to hold him still while simultaneously using a finger to open his mouth with one hand, and get the syringe in with the other hand.

He's never clawing/kicking me... he is just always wriggling his head in awkward directions and I can't maintain control long enough to make it a gentler procedure.

It's still better than pilling, but not by much.

Edit: Also, regarding the liquid prednisolone... it is chicken flavored. I was told I did not need to refrigerate it. But that seems odd... I assume some kind of chicken product is used in the flavoring. Can it not spoil? And the syringe already smells strongly like chicken... I am rinsing it in plain water after every use, but there must be residual chicken-stuff all over it. Is it really okay to just leave this stuff sitting out for a month?

They did give me two syringes, so I can switch to a clean one halfway through, but it still feels unsanitary somehow.

My cat that took the liquid chicken flavor had his stored in the cupboard, and it was fine. I assumed the "flavor" was not from a chicken base, more of a chemical compound that creates the flavor, but I'm not 100% sure on this.
On cleaning the syringes, I fill a small bowl with hot water with a bit of dish soap and "plunge" the heck out of the water, and then do the same in a bowl of plain hot water, then rinse. I always pop the syringe apart to let it air dry, too.

 

[cmshap]

I assumed the "flavor" was not from a chicken base, more of a chemical compound that creates the flavor, but I'm not 100% sure on this.

I'm not totally sure on this, either. At first, I wondered if it was chicken stock, but that has to be refrigerated after opening a can.

I would imagine that to a cat -- an animal with highly sensitive senses of smell/taste -- synthetic things that only taste like chicken to us may not fool them. Obligate carnivores, I am assuming, have a more refined sense of what is real meat.

This is entirely speculation, and I am no expert. Maybe I will try researching this when I have time, and call the local pharmacy and ask them what the process of compounding into a chicken-flavored liquid entails.

 

[iPappy]

I'm not totally sure on this, either. At first, I wondered if it was chicken stock, but that has to be refrigerated after opening a can.

I would imagine that to a cat -- an animal with highly sensitive senses of smell/taste -- synthetic things that only taste like chicken to us may not fool them. Obligate carnivores, I am assuming, have a more refined sense of what is real meat.

This is entirely speculation, and I am no expert. Maybe I will try researching this when I have time, and call the local pharmacy and ask them what the process of compounding into a chicken-flavored liquid entails.

I never thought to ask, so it would be interesting to see what the pharmacy says about that.
My cat never had a problem with the taste of the liquid, but his problems were more digestive and throat/bronchial related and getting the medication into him required a gentle hand, but the placement of Willy's tumor would make it much more difficult. I'm assuming he showed no interest in sampling the medication himself?

 

[cmshap]

the placement of Willy's tumor would make it much more difficult. I'm assuming he showed no interest in sampling the medication himself?

I let him sniff the syringe a few times before administering the first dose. I left it sitting near him for a while, with the goal of not freaking him out by introducing this new foreign object all of the sudden.

That was insufficient, however. After I held his head still, forced his mouth open enough to accept the syringe, and squirted it in, he instantly became distrustful of the syringe.

I will not be surprised if the act of shaking the bottle and drawing the medicine into the syringe will be enough to send him into hiding.

Today I tried to sneak-attack. After the towel didn't work, I waited until he settled comfortably on my lap, and did it then. Which made him run away after.

I hate the idea that administering this med every day might make him more apprehensive about jumping into my lap during what could be his final phase of life.

 

[iPappy]

I let him sniff the syringe a few times before administering the first dose. I left it sitting near him for a while, with the goal of not freaking him out by introducing this new foreign object all of the sudden.

That was insufficient, however. After I held his head still, forced his mouth open enough to accept the syringe, and squirted it in, he instantly became distrustful of the syringe.

I will not be surprised if the act of shaking the bottle and drawing the medicine into the syringe will be enough to send him into hiding.

Today I tried to sneak-attack. After the towel didn't work, I waited until he settled comfortably on my lap, and did it then. Which made him run away after.

I hate the idea that administering this med every day might make him more apprehensive about jumping into my lap during what could be his final phase of life.

It might be a shot in the dark, but, if you have time, could you hold him, place the empty syringe in the corner of his mouth, then let go and give him a few treats? This doesn't fix the fact that he needs the medicine every day, but it might make the act of having the syringe placed in or near his mouth a little less scary.
Also, prepare him. Tell him, "It's time to take your medicine" or whatever phrase you like. I'm wondering if a word or phrase that prepares him for having that medicine go into his mouth would help vs. being surprised by it.
It's a dumb comparison, but I do nail trims on dogs, and for those who hate it I say "one, two, three" and then clip, on every single toe. Giving them that verbal warning and preparation that the clipping sensation is coming is enough for many of them to relax, and most of the dogs who don't like it I can feel their paw tense in anticipation when I say "three". It's like they're tensing their muscles to brace against the sensation. I think sometimes just knowing what's coming is better than the element of flat out surprise.
Obviously, I don't know if this will work, but, I'm willing to brain storm all I can.

 

[IndyJones]

This is why I always practice the pilling "action" aka dry pilling on a regular basis with all my cats. It gets them used to the actions before theres a need to actualy pill them. I think this is part of why Kabuto does so well with it. I have been handling his head and mouth since he was 2 (he was 1-2 when i got him). 17 years later he actualy reminds me if I forget to pill him right at 11am and 11pm when he needs his thyroid meds.

I ve had a difficult to pill cat in the past but to be fair she ended up having a rotten tooth that eventualy broke. (Resorptive leision)

 

[Kwik]

My cat that took the liquid chicken flavor had his stored in the cupboard, and it was fine. I assumed the "flavor" was not from a chicken base, more of a chemical compound that creates the flavor, but I'm not 100% sure on this.
On cleaning the syringes, I fill a small bowl with hot water with a bit of dish soap and "plunge" the heck out of the water, and then do the same in a bowl of plain hot water, then rinse. I always pop the syringe apart to let it air dry, too.

I buy sterile syringes by the thousand( they are so inexpensive)- it's not so much for me about cleaning them but after 2or 3 times it's no longer a smooth action because of the swelling

 

[cmshap]

Second update: 5 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Late evening...

Willy is currently resting in my lap, so he has forgiven me. But I've been doing a lot of reflection tonight.

Willy had some tumor shrinkage after his doses of vincristine/cyclophosphamide 5 days ago, but that shrinkage seems to have stopped.

Then he had the bleeding ear, which was caused by scratching too hard at the tissue inside, where there is also a small tumor. This could recur.

Then there's the daily trauma (although I am hoping to get better at it) of administering meds at home, and making him avoid me afterward. And the monthly trauma of going to the oncology clinic.

I sincerely hope he miraculously takes a turn for the better, but I am trying to prepare myself now for if/when it is time for euthanasia. We are not there yet, but if the tumors start growing again, I honestly feel like it won't be much longer after that.

I have already reached the point where I realize this is not going to be an entirely sad thing. He deserves to live a happy, pain-free life in his final moments. I certainly don't want to extend his life unnecessarily when he won't be comfortable anymore. So I know whenever I make the decision, it will be best for him.

I'm not trying to be a downer, just being realistic and thinking through the decision-making process now vs. if/when the situation becomes worse.

I took the OSU "Honoring the Bond" survey and the score I got was in the 110 range, but there is no numerical key for interpreting the results. I think the idea is for you to go through it regularly (my vet suggested a couple of times per week), and compare numbers to look for trends. So you can see if quality of life is increasing or decreasing.

I'm going to do it every few days, as he definitely has a highly aggressive form of cancer.

But, he still seems happy to be alive, for the most part. He just doesn't like being poked and prodded and forced to ingest medicine. I wish I could circumvent those things, but I can't.

 

[Kwik]

The Blog – Get Busy Living Read this please. I used it against lung cancer my pet scan was clean.

Thank you and thank God!
I've got a lot to say and ask but won't derail cmshap thread-

Again,thank you!

 

[tarasgirl06]

Lots of excellent suggestions, cmshap and of course I'm sure I'm not alone in agreeing with you on prioritizing Willy's QUALITY of life, being sure he knows he is LOVED and keeping him as comfortable as possible while still doing what is necessary. He looks so handsome in his latest pic!

 

[cmshap]

Update: 6 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

His ear is bleeding again today, and he keeps scratching at it. I managed to successfully trim his nails on that side, but I still feel like he can do damage by digging into the ear when he tries to scratch. He is also constantly shaking his head which also further opens the wound.

I attempted the collar again. I put it on him and tried holding him in my lap for a while while petting and reassuring, but all he wanted to do was jump off and start running. He runs around my apartment with the collar on, trying to squeeze into small spaces, but getting stuck and not understanding why. I really don't want him to injure his neck by running into something with a side of the collar, and making his neck turn suddenly.

I have styptic powder, which I applied once when his ear was bleeding prior to the first chemo dose, and it really burned because he yowled in pain. I REALLY don't want to do that to him again and just make our relationship at home further deteriorate.

It's really not much blood... it's not oozing out. He throws tiny droplets around when he shakes his head. But as it is actively bleeding, it still worries me. I've been administering the antibiotic drops just as a preventative measure so his ear won't become infected (at least I hope the drops will function that way).

I don't know what else to do. If his ear keeps bleeding all day I may ask my vet if I should bring him in, but there may be nothing she can do. The last time his ear was bleeding, she said she might be able to cauterize it if it doesn't stop, but given that he has LCL, any tumors in his ears could just keep irritating him, anyway, and he will just keep scratching. So putting him through the trauma of general anesthesia and another medical procedure may not be worth it.

Last time, administering the drops over the course of a week was all that was necessary, and the bleeding stopped for months, until now. I believe it's all because of tumor growth, and scratching at the area to relieve irritation.

On the plus side, he's eating and otherwise seems okay, but I don't know what to do about this ear problem if it continues.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Update: 6 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

His ear is bleeding again today, and he keeps scratching at it. I managed to successfully trim his nails on that side, but I still feel like he can do damage by digging into the ear when he tries to scratch. He is also constantly shaking his head which also further opens the wound.

I attempted the collar again. I put it on him and tried holding him in my lap for a while while petting and reassuring, but all he wanted to do was jump off and start running. He runs around my apartment with the collar on, trying to squeeze into small spaces, but getting stuck and not understanding why. I really don't want him to injure his neck by running into something with a side of the collar, and making his neck turn suddenly.

I have styptic powder, which I applied once when his ear was bleeding prior to the first chemo dose, and it really burned because he yowled in pain. I REALLY don't want to do that to him again and just make our relationship at home further deteriorate.

It's really not much blood... it's not oozing out. He throws tiny droplets around when he shakes his head. But as it is actively bleeding, it still worries me. I've been administering the antibiotic drops just as a preventative measure so his ear won't become infected (at least I hope the drops will function that way).

I don't know what else to do. If his ear keeps bleeding all day I may ask my vet if I should bring him in, but there may be nothing she can do. The last time his ear was bleeding, she said she might be able to cauterize it if it doesn't stop, but given that he has LCL, any tumors in his ears could just keep irritating him, anyway, and he will just keep scratching. So putting him through the trauma of general anesthesia and another medical procedure may not be worth it.

Last time, administering the drops over the course of a week was all that was necessary, and the bleeding stopped for months, until now. I believe it's all because of tumor growth, and scratching at the area to relieve irritation.

On the plus side, he's eating and otherwise seems okay, but I don't know what to do about this ear problem if it continues.

A big "plus" that Willy's appetite is back. And you know these alternatives, but I'd suggest another call to his doctor, if just to quiet your mind that you've done this. She may not be able to suggest anything else. But at least you've called. And in the meantime, hopefully he will have stopped scratching and his distress will be alleviated on its own.

 

[cmshap]

And you know these alternatives, but I'd suggest another call to his doctor, if just to quiet your mind that you've done this.

I did today. She suggested confining Willy to a single room for a while while he has the collar on, and remove anything he could get stuck on, if possible, while getting him acclimated to the collar in there.

That's not a bad idea. When I put the collar on him in our main living space, he gets stuck between chair legs, and on computer cables (he goes under/behind my computer desk), etc. I could keep him in my bedroom for a while, where the only place he could get stuck is under the bed. I could move his food/water/litter box in there for a while and just sit and work in there on my laptop while he gets used to the collar (I wouldn't want to leave him unsupervised).

My bedroom is literally the only room in my apartment with a door, other than closets.

The only other option would be to move anything he could get stuck on out of the main living area into the bedroom, like dining room chairs, etc. and maybe figure out how to block off the space under my desk so he can't even try getting through there.

I'd prefer the latter because there is much more space for him to roam while getting used to the collar. And the living room windows have a better view.

I'll have to think about this. He's sleeping now. I am just remaining stationary whenever he's sleeping, because while he's sleeping, his ear is clotting and bleeding is stopping, and he isn't scratching at it.

(If I get up, he often follows me, so I am sitting here quietly at the moment. Especially if I go into the kitchen, he follows me out of habit, because he was always strongly food-motivated before cancer, and when I go into the kitchen that means a chance for a meal being served. So he's still doing it now even if he isn't in the mood to eat.)

 

[tarasgirl06]

I did today. She suggested confining Willy to a single room for a while while he has the collar on, and remove anything he could get stuck on, if possible, while getting him acclimated to the collar in there.

That's not a bad idea. When I put the collar on him in our main living space, he gets stuck between chair legs, and on computer cables (he goes under/behind my computer desk), etc. I could keep him in my bedroom for a while, where the only place he could get stuck is under the bed. I could move his food/water/litter box in there for a while and just sit and work in there on my laptop while he gets used to the collar (I wouldn't want to leave him unsupervised).

My bedroom is literally the only room in my apartment with a door, other than closets.

The only other option would be to move anything he could get stuck on out of the main living area into the bedroom, like dining room chairs, etc. and maybe figure out how to block off the space under my desk so he can't even try getting through there.

I'd prefer the latter because there is much more space for him to roam while getting used to the collar. And the living room windows have a better view.

I'll have to think about this. He's sleeping now. I am just remaining stationary whenever he's sleeping, because while he's sleeping, his ear is clotting and bleeding is stopping, and he isn't scratching at it.

Good UPdate. Hopefully you are at least somewhat relieved that you called and have alternatives. If you do choose the bedroom, make sure that if your bed has space to see underneath, it is not covered under there by fabric that covers springs. I have an antique bed that's like that, and that fabric is now hanging in tatters from a certain someone's forays into the netherworld . IDK what it's like under there, but wouldn't want to chance an e-collar getting stuck on a spring. There's probably no chance of it. But just in case.

 

[cmshap]

If you do choose the bedroom, make sure that if your bed has space to see underneath, it is not covered under there by fabric that covers springs.

Thanks for the tip. But my bed has no springs, anywhere. It's a memory foam mattress on top of a frame that uses wooden slats underneath (no box spring).

What I'm most concerned with is the fact that Willy RUNS in a panic when the collar is on him. While it is a soft collar, if he runs into something fast, and an edge of the collar catches on something, it could yank his neck to the side.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Thanks for the tip. But my bed has no springs, anywhere. It's a memory foam mattress on top of a frame that uses wooden slats underneath (no box spring).

What I'm most concerned with is the fact that Willy RUNS in a panic when the collar is on him. While it is a soft collar, if he runs into something fast, and an edge of the collar catches on something, it could yank his neck to the side.

Good about the bed. Not a lot of people have antique beds but just something I thought of that everyone needs to check for in a situation like yours. Yes, concern and carefulness are absolute priorities! I'm shocked at how many people don't cat-proof their homes and then when things happen, it's a major incident. So many things can be avoided by just using common sense and taking the time to check the environment (and maintain it!) before adopting.

 

[cmshap]

Update: 6 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Evening...

I just administered Willy's prednisolone tonight, and in the process, he bit me so hard he drew blood.

I know enough about cat bites to know I need to watch it with care so that I don't end up with an infected finger.

Clearly, this is not working. I called my vet to ask if an injection is still possible. Or, maybe I need to ask a neighbor/friend to come over and give assistance. My only hesitation with the latter is I don't want Willy to bite someone else in the process.

He's never bitten me outside of over-aggressive play which I always successfully stopped. And all his "bites" over the past 6-7 years have just been play-bites without intent to harm. This bite, today, was with intent to harm me. I hate that it has come to this between the two of us.

 

[iPappy]

Update: 6 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Evening...

I just administered Willy's prednisolone tonight, and in the process, he bit me so hard he drew blood.

I know enough about cat bites to know I need to watch it with care so that I don't end up with an infected finger.

Clearly, this is not working. I called my vet to ask if an injection is still possible. Or, maybe I need to ask a neighbor/friend to come over and give assistance. My only hesitation with the latter is I don't want Willy to bite someone else in the process.

He's never bitten me outside of over-aggressive play which I always successfully stopped. And all his "bites" over the past 6-7 years have just been play-bites without intent to harm. This bite, today, was with intent to harm me. I hate that it has come to this between the two of us.

I would ask for the medications via injection, too. I think that would be the best choice at this point assuming they're open to the idea. How deep was the bite?

 

[Kwik]

Update: 6 days post-chemo (4th dose)...

Evening...

I just administered Willy's prednisolone tonight, and in the process, he bit me so hard he drew blood.

I know enough about cat bites to know I need to watch it with care so that I don't end up with an infected finger.

Clearly, this is not working. I called my vet to ask if an injection is still possible. Or, maybe I need to ask a neighbor/friend to come over and give assistance. My only hesitation with the latter is I don't want Willy to bite someone else in the process.

He's never bitten me outside of over-aggressive play which I always successfully stopped. And all his "bites" over the past 6-7 years have just been play-bites without intent to harm. This bite, today, was with intent to harm me. I hate that it has come to this between the two of us.

His " intent " was not to harm you'- its his defense not to be harmed..... he had no other options to " make it stop"