What will these kittens look like?

[KittyJ]

So I'm wondering what the kittens of these two specific cats will look like. Note: I am not breeding these two cats but thinking of adopting a kitten from their future litter. The father is a purebred Ragdoll. He's a light brown tabby with dark brown stripes. The mother is a lilac point Siamese mix. Her mother was a longhaired calico. Knowing this, I assume that at least half of the litter will be longhaired. Since the future mother carries the "O" gene, I think that one male will be flame point. I also think that one female will be torti point, and maybe a lynx point. Possible a colorpoint tabby. Is that right? What will the others look like?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[tabbytom]

So I'm wondering what the kittens of these two specific cats will look like.

Please provide photos of your kitties so that it'll be easier for members to give a more accurate answer. Best is if you have photos of the face, side and top of the cat for easy identifications of the markings

how-to-add-a-picture-to-your-forum-post

 

[KittyJ]

Okay, thanks! I'll ask for some.

 

[Willowy]

Ragdolls are a pointed breed. Is the dad a lynx point or all tabby? If he's all tabby I don't think he's a purebred Ragdoll. And I assume he's longhaired? I'll go ahead as though he's a longhaired brown tabby. But if he is pointed, all the kittens will be pointed too, so just add point to the description .

Red can't be carried, so if the dad is a brown (genetically black) tabby and the mother is solid lilac pointed (not lilac tortie), there won't be any red kittens or torties. Since she's pointed, if he carries the point gene (he should if he has Ragdoll heritage), yep, about half will be pointed. If he doesn't actually have any Ragdoll heritage and doesn't carry the point gene, none will be pointed.

Lilac is dilute chocolate, so if he carries the chocolate gene there may be some chocolates, it he carries the dilute gene there may be some blues. If he carries both there may be some lilacs.

Here's a genetics calculator that's kinda fun to play around with .
Cat Coat Calculator | Sparrow's Garden

 

[lutece]

Yes, it would be very helpful if you could post some pictures of the parents, so we know if the dad is a pointed cat or not, and if the mom is actually lilac point. It's pretty unusual for a non pedigreed cat to be lilac point (most cats thought to be lilac point are actually blue point).

As W Willowy explained, red can't be carried, so unless the mother is a tortie herself, there are no "O" genes involved in this mating.

 

[KittyJ]

Ragdolls are a pointed breed. Is the dad a lynx point or all tabby? If he's all tabby I don't think he's a purebred Ragdoll. And I assume he's longhaired? I'll go ahead as though he's a longhaired brown tabby. But if he is pointed, all the kittens will be pointed too, so just add point to the description .

Red can't be carried, so if the dad is a brown (genetically black) tabby and the mother is solid lilac pointed (not lilac tortie), there won't be any red kittens or torties. Since she's pointed, if he carries the point gene (he should if he has Ragdoll heritage), yep, about half will be pointed. If he doesn't actually have any Ragdoll heritage and doesn't carry the point gene, none will be pointed.

Lilac is dilute chocolate, so if he carries the chocolate gene there may be some chocolates, it he carries the dilute gene there may be some blues. If he carries both there may be some lilacs.

Here's a genetics calculator that's kinda fun to play around with .
Cat Coat Calculator | Sparrow's Garden

Thank you! He is all tabby. I was wondering about that since I have never seen an all tabby ragdoll. Yes, he's longhaired. He came with his parents' papers. I'll try to get a picture. It's possible that he's a mix, then he would carry the pointed gene.

I didn't know that red can't be carried. I hope some will be chocolate point.

Thanks for the link! I have always wanted a cat coat calculator! THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!!!!

Yes, it would be very helpful if you could post some pictures of the parents, so we know if the dad is a pointed cat or not, and if the mom is actually lilac point. It's pretty unusual for a non pedigreed cat to be lilac point (most cats thought to be lilac point are actually blue point).

As W Willowy explained, red can't be carried, so unless the mother is a tortie herself, there are no "O" genes involved in this mating.

I'm pretty sure that she's a lilac point. I'm working on the pics. Thanks!

 

[lutece]

Thank you! He is all tabby. I was wondering about that since I have never seen an all tabby ragdoll. Yes, he's longhaired. He came with his parents' papers. I'll try to get a picture. It's possible that he's a mix, then he would carry the pointed gene.

Dad is all tabby, but his parents are both pedigreed Ragdolls? What color are his parents listed as on the papers?

 

[KittyJ]

Supposedly. I don't know what color his parents are. I need to ask.

 

[Maurey]

Dad is all tabby, but his parents are both pedigreed Ragdolls? What color are his parents listed as on the papers?

Apparently, Mink Ragdolls (i.e. non pointed) can be registered according to TICA standard.

Edit: This person on another forum explains it much better than I ever could Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard

 

[lutece]

Apparently, Mink Ragdolls (i.e. non pointed) can be registered according to TICA standard.

The TICA standard calls for all Ragdolls to be pointed. Here's the standard, you can see "Category: Pointed."

https://www.tica.org/phocadownload/rd.pdf

 

[Maurey]

The TICA standard calls for all Ragdolls to be pointed. Here's the standard, you can see "Category: Pointed."

http://[URL]https://www.tica.org/phocadownload/rd.pdf

[/URL]

Non-pointed Ragdolls can't be shown, but they can be registered due to how TICA registry rules function, to my understanding. I edited a link into my previous post, but in case you haven't seen it, here it is again. Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard

 

[KittyJ]

I don't think he's mink. Here is some pics:

I've only seen him a handful of times. He's about nine months and his eyes aren't blue! Maybe a ragamuffin?

 

[Maurey]

He looks like a brown tabby domestic longhair (i.e of no particular breed), to me. Seems like a potential BYB trying to hype up their animal to make his kittens worth more :< I'd be wary, personally.

Also, mink in Ragdolls is just a term that means non-pointed.

 

[KittyJ]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I wasn't sure from the very beginning. He has rabbit-like fur so I'm thinking he could be a ragamuffin.

 

[Maurey]

He has none of the hallmarks of the breed, imo. He looks very average sized (both Ragdolls and Ragamuffins are large cat breeds), his fur is very short for his age (Ragamuffins are known for their very thick fur), and the head and ear shape is very little like the breed standard. Unless the person can provide papers both for the studs' parents and him, he's a DLH. If he doesn't have papers, but his parents do (which I'm also doubting), I'm guessing they've either falsified papers, or didn't receive his pedigree papers because they didn't follow up on his contracted neuter, so his breeder never provided the papers to his current owner.

Honestly, this whole thing stinks to high hell to me. No responsible breeder would cross a pedigree animal with a randombred pointed queen. I'd highly suggest you look elsewhere for a kitten, personally.

 

[KittyJ]

Yeah, I guess they were falsified papers, too.

 

[lutece]

Non-pointed Ragdolls can't be shown, but they can be registered due to how TICA registry rules function, to my understanding. I edited a link into my previous post, but in case you haven't seen it, here it is again. Sepia/Mink/Solid Ragdolls and the breed standard

TICA has special rules in which any cat can be used as a "non-permissible outcross" and its offspring are registered as a target breed. So this means that it is technically possible for a TICA registered cat listed as any breed to have any color or pattern. You could theoretically have a cat with TICA papers as a Ragdoll that is solid black, for example. This doesn't mean the color is accepted in any way by the TICA standard! It is just an artifact of the way the outcrossing rules work.

Also, mink in Ragdolls is just a term that means non-pointed.

This is not accurate. Mink means a cat with one gene for sepia ("Burmese" point restriction, abbreviation cb) and one gene for colorpoint ("Siamese" point restriction, abbreviation cs). The combination of cb and cs creates an intermediate type of point restriction called mink. This color is typical of the Tonkinese breed.

 

[lutece]

I agree that the male cat doesn't look like a Ragdoll or Ragamuffin. From the pictures, he appears to be a brown mackerel tabby domestic longhair. What colors are his parents supposed to be?

 

[Maurey]

TICA has special rules in which any cat can be used as a "non-permissible outcross" and its offspring are registered as a target breed. So this means that it is technically possible for a TICA registered cat listed as any breed to have any color or pattern. You could theoretically have a cat with TICA papers as a Ragdoll that is solid black, for example. This doesn't mean the color is accepted in any way by the TICA standard! It is just an artifact of the way the outcrossing rules work.

Gotcha! Appreciate the explanation, thank you!

This is not accurate. Mink means a cat with one gene for sepia ("Burmese" point restriction, abbreviation cb) and one gene for colorpoint ("Siamese" point restriction, abbreviation cs). The combination of cb and cs creates an intermediate type of point restriction called mink. This color is typical of the Tonkinese breed.

It might be a layman's term, but Mink is a common way to refer to non-pointed ragdolls, for whatever reason. Unsure how or why that came about. I believe it was something invented by backyard breeders to make them sound more rare and appealing.

Edit: I was mistaken. Apparently Mink refers to a bloodline, in which non-pointed cats, in Mink colouration, are present. Mink Ragdoll | Mink Ragdoll Kittens | Seal Mink Ragdoll Cats The mink-refers-to-all-nonpointed-Ragdolls schtick is a tactic used by some backyard breeders to give value to their kittens that don't follow standard, or something along the lines.

 

[KittyJ]

I agree that the male cat doesn't look like a Ragdoll or Ragamuffin. From the pictures, he appears to be a brown mackerel tabby domestic longhair. What colors are his parents supposed to be?

I don't know yet. I've ask to see the papers.